Last week I opened a Bloody Elbow Community Project and asked all of you to provide questions that you wanted answered by WAMMA officials. I narrowed down the questions to a total of 20, trying to get at least one from everyone that asked, but I obviously couldn't provide all 50 or so.
The tone of some of your questions was rough but Legitimacy for an organization as controversial as WAMMA is not going to come from athletic commissions or organizations like Affliction...it is going to come from us, the MMA fan.
All questions are in black, answers are in red exactly as they were given to me. I did no editing of WAMMA's responses. The answers were jointly given by WAMMA CEO Dave Szady, COO Michael Lynch, and VP Pat Miletich unless noted that the answer was given by only one specific individual.
Read on and give your thoughts in the comments. My goal with this project was to simply help you all have your voices heard.
1.As a "sanctioning body " of MMA do you feel that it is your responsibility to investigate or possibly lead the charge on an investigation of Elite XC and the Florida athletic commission in regards to the Seth Petruzelli/Kimbo fight and the promoters influence to attempt to make the fight one sided?
(Dave Szady writes) First and foremost, WAMMA is reserving judgement on the situation until all the relevant facts are brought to light. Also importantly, WAMMA has no authority within its current structure and mandate to act as a policing body or commissioners office and investigate this matter. However, the WAMMA concept is based on integrity, legitimacy and total transparency within the sport of MMA and WAMMA emphatically cannot and will not condone any activity that brings into question the outcome of any MMA fight.
2. What is WAMMA actively doing to get the UFC on board? Because everyone knows that without the biggest MMA organization on board, its like a dog without teeth. Are you trying to entice the UFC with any incentives? If so, what are they? (asked in various formats such as "Why would the UFC and Zuffa join with WAMMA to build a marketable asset (the WAMMA title/belt) that they have no control over and that will devalue there own title which at this point is the gold standard to the public at large for the most part? There is simply not an apparent incentive to allow a group to come in and siphon off ad dollars and create assets using there brand, and devaluing it, to do it. What consideration are you offering to mitigate the risk for the UFC or losing there credible title?")
WAMMA is promoter neutral. We actively seek to work with all promotions. Clearly with the UFC being the dominant promotion, we would be very excited to have them on board and cooperating with WAMMA. WAMMA does not believe UFC association with WAMMA would either 1. Devalue the UFC belt or 2. "Siphon off" ad dollars from the UFC. To the contrary, association with WAMMA would 1. Add the prestige of a true World Champion to UFC's roster and 2. Further opportunities for sponsorship opportunities within the organization. It would be a "win-win" for both WAMMA and the UFC, with the true winners the fans and fighters.
3. Corruption in boxing has been a huge issue, which basically ruined the sport. What steps is WAMMA taking, or will take, to handle issues of corruption? What kind of consequences are involved? Will there be an independent panel made up of members of various sanctioning bodies and promotions to ensure a level hand when dealing with issues of corruption?
At some stage, with the support of the various promotions and fighters, WAMMA could one day morph into a Commissioners Office of the sport of MMA. Clearly, our WAMMA CEO Dave Szady, with his years of experience in the FBI and the CIA at the highest levels of government, could be a natural fit in investigating and handling issues of corruption. Having one, overall accepted sanctioning organization (WAMMA) in the sport of MMA would further help eliminate the plethora of problems facing boxing.
4. Aside from giving Fedor Emelianenko a belt, what has WAMMA done to further the advancement of MMA, what is it currently doing, and what is it planning on doing in the future?
WAMMA firmly believes that the importance of crowning the first, true, undisputed world MMA champion in Fedor Emelianenko was a very important moment for the sport that cannot be understated. WAMMA looks forward to WAMMA title defenses and crowing new champions in 2009. We look forward to our Fighter Advisory Board kicking off and working toward the development of a meaningful pension and insurance program for fighters.
5. It seems obvious that UFC will not "join" WAMMA, but if WAMMA plans on awarding titles to the top fighters regardless of promotion, will UFC fighters be ranked and awarded belts even though WAMMA will not be at UFC events to award them in person?
Since the inception of WAMMA rankings, UFC fighters have always been ranked within our WAMMA Rankings and will always be ranked. Moreover, Zuffa fighters dominant our rankings. The fighters themselves want to fight for undisputed, world titles. However, we see no value to the fighters, the fans, the promotions, or WAMMA in awarding WAMMA titles to fighters that could not accept, endorse, defend, mention, or even be seen with a WAMMA belt without jeopardy to their livelihood based on existing contractual obligations and/or prohibitions to promotions that do not endorse WAMMA.
6. Is the WAMMA body planning to have any hand in match making non-title fights? I am aware of title holders having to fight top ten within a year, but what is there plan as a defacto universal regulatory body to put an end to heavy handed match making and promoter stacking the deck for some fighters?
This is a very interesting question and was the subject of a lot of discussion at the ABC annual convention last summer where WAMMA was an invited guest speaker on the subject of "MMA Title Unification and Cross Promotion". This problem is especially prevalent in boxing, where fighters with 20-0 records are commonplace (virtually unheard of in MMA). Many of the fights in those records are against “tomato cans” with the specific purpose of enhancing the fighter’s record and public perception through record inflation. This matchmaking can rise to the level of dangerousness when truly inexperienced or overmatched fighters are placed against legitimate top athletes. Right now, the various state regulatory agencies are in charge of monitoring such circumstances. If invited by such commissions or any promotion, WAMMA would certainly take a role in promoting the safety and welfare of the sports most valuable commodity - the fighters themselves.
WAMMA will also be involved the sanctioning of non-title WAMMA Elimination Matches, to determine the next in line for WAMMA title shots within cooperating promotions.
7. How does WAMMA intend to develop a positive image within the MMA community, while evoking so many aspects of boxing sanctioning organizations that the MMA community tends to revile?
WAMMA has done a great job in developing a positive image by not charging a sanctioning fee and not dipping into a fighter’s purse, which is the common practice and primary revenue stream in all boxing sanctioning organizations. WAMMA is 180 degrees opposite from a sanctioning body in boxing. We are so much more than a sanctioning body - we are a multifaceted fighter and fan forward MMA organization.
8. If the UFC continues in it's reluctance to work with WAMMA, this would keep several top fighters out of contention for a WAMMA title. With WAMMA's relevance already in question without the cooperation of the UFC, what systems are being set in place to ensure an accurate ranking system, and not a system based on who is working with you?
As stated previously, WAMMA is open to working with all organizations and our WAMMA Rankings rank fighters from all organizations. For better or worse, to some extent exposure plays a role in a fighter’s place within a ranking, as well as his or her record and quality of competition. The UFC will never have a problem having their fighters ranked within WAMMA as they are the dominant promotion, have the vast majority of the very best fighters based on record and quality of opponents and their fighters have the greatest exposure.
9. How are voters for your rankings committee chosen? How worried are you about potential biases within the committee, such as Mauro inflating rankings for fighters of shows he announces at? Does Pat Miletich get a vote since he is a WAMMA officer?
(Mike Lynch writes) Our WAMMA Ranking Committee members are chosen based on their reputation for integrity, professionalism and knowledge of the sport. We have the best, most objective rankings and the most comprehensive Ranking Commitee in the sport. As to membership, our ranking committee Chair Sam Caplan and I carefully screen all prospective applicants. Our website gets at least five “how can I be a ranking committee member” emails per week. In addition, we have extended invitations to several individuals, for example, Josh Gross, who have declined participation for a variety of reasons, or others, such as Stephen Quadros, who given his encyclopedic knowledge of the sport WAMMA would be overjoyed to have on our Ranking Committee, but simply just doesn't have the time to devote to another endeavor. In answer to your question about Mauro Ranallo, I personally am not worried at all. Mauro is a great guy, super knowledgeable of the sport of MMA and of the highest integrity. We are very pleased to have him on board. And no, Pat Miletch does not get a vote, only those individuals listed on our website at www.gowamma.com as Ranking Committee members have votes counted in the WAMMA rankings. I don't get to vote either, I serve merely an administrative role on the Committee.
10. Since you are an organization that will succeed or fail depending on credibility, why do you think it's a good idea to have former pro wrestler and relative MMA newbie Bill Goldberg as a VP of public relations?
(Mike Lynch writes) We think having Bill Goldberg with WAMMA is just great. Bill is a die-hard fan of the sport since the early days of the sport, is charismatic, intelligent, with years of experience in professional sports and sports entertainment and an excellent addition to our management team. Bill, along with Pat, also understands and relates to athletes at the highest levels of competition.
11. If Fedor doesn't fight a top 10 opponent in 12 months you have stated he will be stripped. If that does happen, does the belt go into limbo or does the next ranked fighter get it after his next fight? If Fedor gets stripped and Couture fights Nogueira, would that be the obvious WAMMA HW title fight? Do you think Zuffa would go along with WAMMA if their champions occupied all the #1 slots? Would you go along with that?
If Fedor does not fight a legitimate competitor within the next twelve months, yes, he will be removed as champion. This is not a situation we foresee happening. Likewise, a fighter is removed from the WAMMA Rankings if he does not fight in a twelve month period (i.e., Randy Couture at the present time). If an existing champion is removed of his belt, WAMMA will do its best to facilitate a new championship match between the next two highest available contenders. WAMMA has no control over what organization will have at any given time the current WAMMA champions in their stable. We would be very happy to have UFC fighters holding and defending WAMMA belts.
12. What happens IF Fedor does indeed fight on New Year's Eve in Japan (despite what Affliction says) against some freakshow opponent, and God forbids… gets beaten? Naturally since no Japanese organization recognizes WAMMA™, this fight would not be sanctioned as an 'official' WAMMA™ fight, yet the top WAMMA™ fighter has lost, so will Fedor lose his belt if he drops in to second place in the WAMMA™ standings even though he lost to a non-WAMMA™fighter?
(Mike Lynch writes) There is a saying, “To be the man, you’ve gotta beat the man”. If Fedor gets beaten, be it a fluke or not, why should WAMMA somehow NOT recognize that fighter as a champion? Remember, Buster Douglas was a 100-1 underdog against Mike Tyson. Did the boxing community and fans discredit Buster Douglas simply because his victory was a long-shot ("Long Count" arguments aside)? If a fighter beats Fedor in a legitimate MMA match, that fighter would be entitled to be called a WAMMA champion. In regard to rankings, a loss by Fedor would have to be evaluated by the WAMMA Ranking Committee. And although a drop in the rankings would almost certainly be assured, the degree of such a demotion in the rankings could not be predicted and would depend on a number of factors, and ultimately, the combined votes of the Committee.
13. What happens if, like Randy Couture hopes, Fedor goes to the UFC, and he gives up the WAMMA™belt, where does that leave WAMMA™? What happens when all the top 5 fighters in the world are signed to the UFC? I mean right now according to your own rankings, maybe only 13-ish fighters out of the top 60 ranked are involved with fight organizations 'friendly' with WAMMA™. You can't just keep saying about how maybe… just maybe… one day the UFC will see the light and work with us.
(Pat Miletich writes) The fact that Fedor is not with the UFC shows that there are currently other organizations that wish to have top talent in their stables. We are currently living in the today and now and have no reason to think Fedor will leave Affliction. “What if a tornado blows down my house tomorrow” isn't how WAMMA conducts business. However, we believe that if Fedor fights in the UFC there will be two belts up for grabs that night. The UFC organizational belt, and the WAMMA undisputed world title belt.
14. Other than the next Fedor fight, do you have any viable WAMMA™ fights planned this decade? I really hope that you guys don't plan on any horrible ideas like Frank Shamrock vs. Tito Ortiz for the WAMMA™ light heavyweight title or Robbie Lawler vs. Matt Lindland for the WAMMA™middleweight title.
As fans are aware, WAMMA recently nixed the idea that Matt Lindland v. Tito Ortiz would be for a WAMMA middleweight title. We would evaluate each potential fight on its merits according to our rankings. To the contrary, we here at WAMMA do believe that a match between Robbie Lawler vs Matt Lindland would make the cut for a legitimate WAMMA Championship match.
15. Why does MMA need WAMMA™ when no one asked for it? Why should fans not believe this is just a money grab? Why wasn't this done years ago?
(Pat Miletich writes) WAMMA is needed so that a sanctioning body with no financial ties to promoters exists in regard to rankings, undisputed titles, fighters rights, etc.... At this point there are numerous organizational belts and none stand for an undisputed world champion. There is a reason there are no Bob Arum and Don King belts in boxing. It would be lunacy! This is what the organizational belts stand for in MMA, but the fans don't even realize it yet. As a fighter I was ranked #1 in the world for a couple years, but there were others ranked right behind me I never fought because they were not in the UFC. Every fighter wants to prove they are the true #1 undisputed champion. We are trying to ensure this happens.
16. Why does WAMMA seemed to be more focused on sanctioning fights, asking organizations to join, and endorsing their ranking system over other goals of WAMMA such as contributions to a fighter pension fund, insurance programs for fighters, financial education seminars, and referee and judge training? Within the past week, there have been issues with insurance claims being denied, inexperienced refereeing, and questionable judging decisions.
(Mike Lynch writes) There is another saying in business that that goes, “Crawl, Walk, Run.” WAMMA as a functioning company is only 11 months old, remember! As a business, WAMMA needs to focus on its core foundation, sponsor revenue stream (remember, no sanctioning fees like in boxing) and promoter relationship building before embarking on some of our more lofty (but still extremely important) goals of bettering the sport.
17. What is WAMMA doing to contribute to the growth of Mixed Martial Arts? Are there any plans to educate the public on the sport through any type of media? UFC has spent a vast amount of funds to get MMA legal in all 50 states and has plans to focus on the provinces in Canada. Is WAMMA even contributing to get MMA legal in places where it is banned?
As indicated in answer 16, WAMMA clearly needs to focus on building our core foundation. As you rightly pointed out, efforts to legalize MMA can be extremely expensive. WAMMA is an outspoken advocate for the sport in every form presented and will continue to aid and or spearhead efforts to see legalization of MMA in all 50 states as time, resources and finances allow. WAMMA is very happy with our company progress in 2008 and look forward to a great 2009 and seeing MMA legal across the country. WAMMA can't envision anything more exciting than seeing a WAMMA championship fight being held in Madison Square Garden.
18. I just want to know why Forrest/Rampage and GSP Fitch weren't for WAMMA belts. Even if Dana wouldn't let them in the building with their belts (or at all) they still should have named the winner of those matches as champion. They were both #1 vs #2 in their division, and the UFC has most of the top 10 fighters in those divisions under contract. I can't foresee a situation besides injury that will lead to GSP or Forrest not fighting a top 10 fighter in a year, and even if they do get injured, Zuffa would probably still be the only one's that could put on anything resembling a 1 vs 2 match in those divisions.
WAMMA would have been thrilled to have seen both of those fights be contested for WAMMA belts. But, WAMMA sees no point in crowning a champion that could neither acknowledge, defend, endorse or promote that WAMMA Championship in any way.
19. Zuffa has contracts with almost two-thirds of the fighters in your rankings, and completely dominates your LHW and WW divisions. There is no way that you can have a champion in those divisions unless things change radically. How do you overcome that?
WAMMA is actively working with the fighters and promotions that are willing to work with us. We strongly believe that as the fighters, fans and promotions see the value added of undisputed world champions in their stable, more and more WAMMA fights will occur both outside and eventually inside the UFC.
20.
" WAMMA is an independent sanctioning body that takes no money out of the fighters or promoters pockets and simply ads value to a promotion and athletes that fight for it's belts. The organizational belts that exist now can be manipulated by those organizations and are not seen as independent of curruption and greed."
…while their agreements are private/confidential it appears they are exploiting the ancillary rights of the fighters in place of charging sanctioning fees to the promoter of champions. (Although their materials suggest they will charge for those in the future… say it ain't so.) Isn't a big complaint of the other promotions their over reaching agreements taking too many rights from the fighters, i.e. ancillary rights provisions, the rights to name voice likeness, etc.? The exploitation of those rights do take money out of the pockets of the fighters. e.g. if those rights (let's say Fedor's name voice and likeness) were given to a sponsor of WAMMA, will WAMMA give all of that money to FEDOR? Doubt it. In essence we are talking merchandise and sponsorship rights. Why keep these arrangements private, with the fighters out of the loop?
Why place another middleman taking those rights between the fighters and the sponsors? So I can not see how WAMMA believes this will take no money away from fighters?
How is this a value added proposition for the fighters coming from WAMMA? The devil we know is better than the devil we don't know… and more people know and buy the UFC. At least UFC has made some efforts to market merch where fighters will receive a royalty. This confidential WAMMA arrange reeks of potential problems, why the lack of transparency? WAMMA has no brand recognition, much like the IFL's ill fated attempt at marketing. Remember the pooling of sponsorship money, why hand over those rights again? Less people should be between fighters and there sponsors in my opinion. What does WAMMA do to deserve this stream of revenue? How much has Gaylord brought in exploiting the name of fighters on behalf of WAMMA?
(Mike Lynch writes) Frankly, I am completely confused by this question and its premises. WAMMA has no contracts with fighters and in no way seeks to dip into their endorsement dollars. To the contrary, it the hope that WAMMA will help facilitate the independent negotiations for fighter sponsorship dollars between WAMMA champions and our underlying sponsors - that is the fighter value added proposition. I do not know what “private/confidential agreements” the reader refers to, as there are no such agreements with any fighter. I also simply don't understand the "middleman" or "pooling" application to WAMMA as it is not our model.
UPDATE: I have submitted the following "follow up question" as it is something that has been bothering me and at least two of you have mentioned it as bothering you as well:
When you say "WAMMA would have been thrilled to have seen both of those fights be contested for WAMMA belts. But, WAMMA sees no point in crowning a champion that could neither acknowledge, defend, endorse or promote that WAMMA Championship in any way."
Ring Magazine's rankings are the most highly regarded in all of boxing. To be crowned Ring Magazine Champion is considered the most legitimate title one can earn in boxing. They did this by not caring about promotional ties and making fights (especially fights between a #1 and #2 fighters in the world) title fights when they deemed so to be right. I think that it does seem a bit "what can fighters do for us?" rather than "what can we do for fighters" when you don't make the best matchup's title fights unless you can have your name attached. Wouldn't the simple fact of having your name attached to such a fight by the MMA community be better for establishing legitimacy than only holding fights within "friendly organizations?" Again, it is only my opinion...but saying "we don't care if your company agrees with our philosophy, you are the true champion in your weight class" seems a more firm stance in the promotion of a "true champion" especially in cases such as Light Heavyweight, Middleweight and Welterweight where NO argument can be made for any fighter outside of Zuffa.
I'll post their answer once they provide it.
Update #2: Michael Lynch sent me a response...which led to another question from me as I don't think it is a legitimate answer and sounds more like a political excuse.
The response:
For organizations that do not recognize Wamma, at this time putting those fighters in compromised positions within the organizations that pay their bills would not be in the best interest of those persons. Your Ring Magazie analogy is misplaced
My follow up:
How so? The fighter isn't in a compromised position unless they are actively promoting your organization or being forced to wear your belt. Simply saying "Anderson Silva is the undisputed best middleweight in the world and as such we view him as the undisputed WAMMA middleweight champion" is not going to negatively impact Silva. It seems like a bit of an attempt to avoid any situation where the WAMMA name isn't front and center with their belt getting air time. If that is the case it is fine. But in the case of the middeweight division the idea that somehow you could call the winner of a Robbie Lawler/Matt Lindland fight an "undisputed" champion when any MMA fan with eyes and a brain can see that there is a lot to dispute has to be politically motivated (ie If we can't get our name on TV it isn't worth it) and not because you think that Dana White and the UFC brass would punish one of the best pound for pound fighters in the world because of an organization outside of his control has decided he is the best fighter in his division.
Final Update: The final response from Michael Lynch to the above point:
We can agree to disagree on this one. Maybe a difference in perception, which is fair on both sides.