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In Defense of The Blog

This isn't MMA related, but I felt like passing it along just the same. It's a debate that gets to the heart of why blogs are important and valuable and why the hostility to many of them are so strong among the journalistic Old Guard.

Everyone's thoughts are appreciated in this debate. Post 'em if you got 'em.

HT: reader Matt M.

0 recs  |  Comment 24 comments

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Re: In Defense of The Blog
I love Deadspin so I'm shocked at how inarticulately Leitch defends his blog. He seems to want to believe it's a credible news source which I don't believe it is. That's not the value in that blog. I go there for wit and humor not for real news (though sometimes it does deliver that.) Similar to The Daily Show.

by pramit on Apr 30, 2008 9:04 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
The angry guy is dead on.  Period.  If you go to a blog and expect news and truth, you're on fucking crack.  Dont forget, we are not talking stricly MMA blogs, but the whole shabang.  The guy is dead on.  This site, as many posters have pointed out, sometimes gets into waters that you need waders to get through, but the boys do do their best to be at least newsworthy and somewhat journalistic.  What I have a problem with is that one day they wanna be newsworthy, and the next "we're just a blog".  You're either pregnant or not, fuckin pick one.  Hypocrisy is fucking weakness to your fucking soul.

by MoreThanUFC on Apr 30, 2008 9:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
What are you talking about? You are a blogger yourself.
The angry guy is an old out of touch shit bag.
Have you checked the corporate media lately?

by Kid Nate on Apr 30, 2008 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
What I think is BS is that 90% of "sports journalism" is rash, inarticulate opinion.  Watch any episode of Sportscenter, the flagship of the mainstream sports media.  At least bloggers have an equal availability to access to the readership...ESPN, etc. (even this stupid Bob Costas travishamockery) pick and choose what they report on.  It's whatever product they own access to that's driven into the skulls of viewers.

Maybe Buzz (is that his real name?) is just pissed because, on top of having a successful web outlet for humor and (perhaps) more sports news by volume than any other media outlet, Leitch is also able to step on his toes a bit with a well-thought out book of his own.  Will could have done a better job defending Deadspin, but he was "OReilly" ambushed with quotes from comments from his site, not his own writing.

It's not the blogs that are affecting the bottom line of "journalists", it's the corporate-driven, consolidated and opportunistic atmosphere of the news media.

And I would also like to point out that the guy screamed "Come on my ass" at one point during the argument, which constitutes sexual harassment.  Will should sue.

by the exit on Apr 30, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
Here' an interesting blog by Mark Cuban about bloggers:  Bloggers in the Locker Room. Its the Pros vs the Joes

http://www.blogmaverick.com/2008/03/29/bloggers-in-the-locker-room-its-the-pros-vs-the-joes/

For Kid Nate from the article

"On the net, the most popular sports bloggers do the exact same thing. They troll the net looking for other people's work and then throw out some witty comments or a simple rant to complement a link to that work.. Or they sit in front of the TV and throw out posts/comments about the game."

 For Luke from the article:

"The people who have complained and dismissed the blogger ban the loudest are those that have the most to lose. They are the ones getting paid. If the unwashed blogging masses have some masters among them, who knows what could happen to the balance of power in the sports media world."

by Nate414 on Apr 30, 2008 10:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
There's obviously something to what he's saying, but it's a matter of perspective as well. He's essentially criticizing bloggers for wanting to be successful.

Yes, in some cases there is a motive for money. I myself have the urge every single day. I need nor am asking for anyone's sympathy, but running this site is a daily challenge. If I can be financially rewarded for something I've heretofore done for free, I'm not sure I'm doing anything wrong.

Second, Cuban has a point about the process of blogging being absurdly perfunctory and vulture-like. I admit there's something to that. But blogging is what it is and clearly there's an appeal for them across mediums.

Ultimately, and perhaps most importantly, I'm not asking for credentials out of complete self love and need. I would not ask for credentials nor expect any MMA organization to credential me did I not absolutely believe there was good reason to credential me. I'm all for meritocracies. I believe, over the lung run, that I earn my keep and serve a valuable purpose as a media entity.

by Luke Thomas on Apr 30, 2008 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
"media entity" as a part of the site, not anything dealing solely with me. trust me. I know I'm a zilch. That's why I live by this:

"All men are frauds. The only difference between them is that some admit it. I myself deny it." -- H.L. Mencken

Mad Squabbles in the house.

by Luke Thomas on Apr 30, 2008 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
My opinion is that both sides have valid points.  The cranky old guy is a dick yes, but he has a point about blogs being cruel.  Blogs do a ton of fighter bashing lately.  

I have also noticed that they are also starting to take to much material.  I've seen some bloggers repeat almost entire articles instead of just valid points and add only one sentence as commentary and pass it off as a post.  If they plagarize almost an entire article there really isn't to much reason for the reader to ever go back and read the original author's work.  

While bloggers do contribute news, I mostly read them for opinion, fully realizing that anybody can have one.  Some are good and some are crap.  Luke is good at what he does, which is why I keep coming back.  

by Nate414 on Apr 30, 2008 10:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
So are you bashing me for cutting & pasting too much?
Fair enough.
But here's how I see the function of that sort of posts -- we serve as filters. Luke, Nick, Michael and Brent (and now robnashville) and I spend way more time surfing for info on MMA than all but the most obsessed MMA freaks. We do this so we can find interesting stuff and drag it back here to our lair, where you, the BE community can check it out and discuss it.
Many of the BE readers I've interacted with have told me that BE is the only MMA news they check. Therefore if I think something is relevant to the BE conversation, I post it.
Admittedly I haven't had the time to do the kind of posts I'm most proud of -- my MMA history series and the meta-rankings -- since my kid was born, but I'm still finding interesting stuff to post. And if you don't like it, well fuck you.

by Kid Nate on Apr 30, 2008 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
99% of bloggers out there just open their mouths but nothing comes out they're just moving their lips it ain't nothing but jibberish because they forgot about Dre

by fightlinker on Apr 30, 2008 10:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
This is why Fightlinker is my favorite guy on the net! Regarding blogs, it's all about choice. Just the way I choose my friends, I choose certain blogs. BE, Junkie & Linker are the only sites I care about. Not only are they a great filter for news, but I get opinions I truly respect (regardless of if I agree). Since I'm a cynical NYer & trust no one, I'd rather have a compelling opinion than an Iole fluff piece.

by frickshun on May 1, 2008 8:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
First off MoreThanUFC, to say that MSM is without "journalistic endeavours" is a laugh. For the news on my favorite NHL team, the Edmonton Oilers, I no longer read local Edmonton media but pretty much solely rely on blogs. Reason being is that the media would rather print puff pieces on how Joffrey Lupul can't handle playing in or adjusting to the travel, when in fact anyone with two eyes could see that he never fucking forechecks and does whatever he can to stay away from going into the corners. And the funny part is, Oiler blogs were the only one's pointing this out, pointing out what every fan with half a brain could notice while the mainstream media was too afraid to do anything for fear of alienating a source in the dressing room. Is mainstream media without bias then if they can't actually report what is occuring?

Furthermore on the efforts of these blogs, they did not just go off of what they saw (that Joffrey "Zoolander" sucks), but they were the only news sources to use actual statistical data to back it up (such as using Corsi and Desjardin numbers). The print media on the otherhand is in absolute denial about the power of stats in hockey, and would rather use the old "I saw with my own eyes" adage. What I am getting at here is blogs are in this case on the leading edge of hockey analysis, while it is the mainstream media that is the one playing catch up.

by mattwatt on May 1, 2008 12:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
The first sentence should read "First of MoreThanUFC, to say that BLOGS are ....." not MSM

by mattwatt on May 1, 2008 12:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
The people complaining about blogs are the same people putting out work that is inferior to what can be found online.  Fuck them.

by Richard Wade on May 1, 2008 1:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
Of course, mattwatt, I'm willing to bet that 95 percent of the actual news about the Oilers (as opposed to opinion) on the blogs you read are links from MSM sources.

by andherewego on May 1, 2008 1:09 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
Obviously most news comes from MSM sources.  However, a disproportionate amount of useful or thoughtful commentary comes from new media.

by Richard Wade on May 1, 2008 2:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
What is news and what is opinion though? Terry Jones, a Oilers beat writer who is notoriously known for painting the Oilers in a nice light writes articles all the time defending management decisions and what not. Since he is a mainstream media member, I am suppose to respect what he says as news? When it comes to "news", sure the mainstream media breaks more stories on who got injured and how. They are the sources closer to the team. But once that "news" item breaks, is not every piece written, even those by mainstream media sources on how it will impact the team, an opinion column. As for blogs copying and pasting MSM stories, I would say that 25% percent of the posts I read were as such, with the majority being bloggers bringing their own unique perspective to what is going on.

And to think that the mainstream media is without bias is laughable. Does anyone watch Pardon the Interruption or the "compelling and highly intellectual" piece on mma that was just on the O'Reilly factor? Since these guys are major media players, I am suppose to take them for news? Or ESPN's notorious habit of taking other news items and making it into their own "story" is totally okay since they are ESPN? To think that MSM is totally without error is silly and naive at best.

by mattwatt on May 1, 2008 4:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
Here is one such blog that as a hockey fan, is a far more valuable tool then listening to the same old lines from beat writers.

http://lowetide.blogspot.com/

by mattwatt on May 1, 2008 4:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
What gets me the most though is people like Buzz saying that voices like mine, or others, is a "disgusting voice". I am a fan, always have been, and always will be. And to say that my voice is "disgusting" because I wrote a piece for mma-analyst.com even though I have no journalism experience is highly unprofessional and a in a way very sad. Buzz just doesn't know how far out of touch he is with those who "should" (key word should) be reading him but would rather not because we haven't showered in several days. God this post has me going.

by mattwatt on May 1, 2008 4:31 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
One of the things that blogs bring to the news is perspective. The MSM has gotten so concerned with "balanced" coverage that they've lost sight of their mission: to uncover and publish the news. That doesn't mean giving every side a say: it means figuring out what the truth is, as best they can, and putting that forward.

So instead of having a report that says, "85% of Americans are uncomfortable with abortion but okay with the status quo," which would be the truth, we get to hear whack-jobs from the 7.5% on both sides with views so extreme that you're not sure if even they believe what they're talking about.

A good example of this was the 2004 election. I'm not going to get too political here (because it happens on both sides - this is just the best example I have), but what was interesting to me was a graph I saw in 2005 that showed the percentage of people who believed that there were weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. It peaked before the start of the war, then sank quickly, but started rising again by the 2004 election. How is that possible? I mean, there were no WMDs found in Iraq, so why would growing numbers of people think there were? The only explanation I can see is that the MSM just let people say, "Oh yes there were!" without calling them on it.

Blogs have taken over the role of providing news with commentary. Because they so rarely answer to corporate masters, they can say, "Person X said this, but he's full of shit," when he's full of shit. The MSM is worried that person X won't give them an interview again, or that person X will use his connections to damage them in some way.

MMA Blogs are actually a good example of this. Most of the sites screw around a lot, but they're interested in giving the news with the kind of commentary that lets you see the truth. Instead of just reporting what somebody at DREAM said, Fightlinker will go back and say, "but that's complete bullshit, and here's why."

But if people are saying that "Oh, you can't trust blogs," because some blogs are full of shit, then they're giving the impression that you can blindly trust the MSM, which is just as stupid. I'd say that because of the differences in format, it's harder to tell if a newspaper is reliable or has an axe to grind. They all look the same, whereas if you see a shitty blog full of broken image links and lousy spelling, you can pretty quickly decide: these guys are idiots.

But how does an unsuspecting reader know the difference between the Washington Post and the Washington Times? One is a respected newspaper with enough awards to sink a good-sized yacht, and the other is a partisan effort by a crazed religious leader to spread his insane views and poison the political landscape. I don't even know any well-informed conservatives who will read that crap. But it sure looks just as official.

Anyway: Blogs, some good, some bad, but at least you can expect some honesty. Newspapers: beholden to corporate masters and better at hiding their biases. Blech.

-- Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ

by jemaleddin on May 1, 2008 10:37 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
Blogs are probably most useful for their fact checking.  Example: the 60 minutes debacle where they tried to pass off something typed in Microsoft Word default settings as having been typed on a typewriter decades earlier.

by Richard Wade on May 1, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Re: In Defense of The Blog
most all of the venom against blogs just comes from old, out of touch writers clinging desperately to their dying newspaper or magazine. I know because I've had to work around them.

the writers that have adapted have instead embraced the new ways to get their ideas out there, by writing for websites and even having their own blog.

I understand the issue about credibility and accuracy, but it's up to the reader to understand whether what they're reading is for entertainment, news, etc. I don't know anybody dumb enough to read any random blog anywhere on the internet and assume it's the 100% truth, or anyone dumb enough to read news from traditional sources and assume the writer carefully covered every angle and double checked every source of information.

We obviously don't have to look any further than mainstream coverage of MMA for great examples. It's gotten better, but some journalists clearly haven't done all of their homework on the sport in recent years. So people like us are especially critical -- and rightly so -- of the old guard acting as if they're superior.

by jbIF on May 1, 2008 5:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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