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Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay

I haven't bagged on Iole in a while and I don't intend to here, mostly because some of the numbers he provides to prove the UFC pays more than some in the MMA media suggest are actually compelling. But Iole also fails to note one critical factor about UFC pay that keeps fighters at a disadvantage: transparency. Notable quote:

And several agents, speaking on the condition of anonymity, have said the UFC occasionally pays its fighters bonuses it chooses not to announce to the public. These bonuses apparently go to fighters who perform superbly in a big fight.

Welterweight champion Georges St. Pierre reportedly received a $500,000 bonus and a Hummer when he knocked out Matt Hughes at UFC 65 in Sacramento, Calif.

Additionally, fighting in the UFC makes an athlete significantly more attractive to a sponsor. Frank Mir made $85,000 for the logos he wore into the cage for his fight with Brock Lesnar that night. Had he been fighting in another organization, there's zero chance he would have earned half that in sponsorship money and he likely wouldn't have gotten 20 percent as much.

So Mir that night earned a base pay of $40,000, a win bonus of another $40,000, a submission of the night bonus of $60,000 and then hauled in $85,000 in sponsorship dollars.

He's not going to be able to retire after that bout, but bringing in $225,000 for one night's work isn't bad at any time, especially in this economy. A fighter like Chuck Liddell is making around $6 million a year between his salary and his sponsorships and was making at least $9 million little more than a year ago. He was getting $75,000 a month from Xyience and received $1 million for just two weekends of promoting the movie, "300."

"The UFC will pay you if you perform," said fighter agent Dean Albrecht, Mir's agent. "It's like in the NFL. They're not going to rip up your contract after one great game, but if you perform over a period of time, they'll pay you and pay you extremely well. In the UFC, if you go out and fight and put on a great show, believe me, they pay extremely well and they can make some of these kids rich."

As league procedure, this wouldn't fly for a second in the NFL, MLB or NBA. When payments (short of smaller gifts teams will occasionally give players) are made a matter of public record, it enables the athlete and their management team to negotiate an informed deal based on needs and what athletes in similar situations are receiving. By offering sometimes secretive payments, the UFC robs the fighters of the opportunity to sign a deal that could otherwise be more lucrative were they to have referential evidence.

If you want to respect fighters, pay them what they're worth, right? Everyone seemingly agrees with that. But what they're worth is also partly a function of what their peers make - above and below the table.

Credential now. Transparency now.

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Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
Secret bonuses and the like hardly reflect that "UFC fighters make more than you know" since they have to perform a certain way while also being in a big match-up.  Bonuses aren't something you can count on to feed your family, you need to know up front what you're going to be making...not just "boy I hope Dana feels like giving me a bonus after this fight!"

by brentbrookhouse on Apr 30, 2008 1:11 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
They do know what they're making.  It's called the base salary. :P It's not a huge crime man, I'm in Sales and I have my base, but anything I sell in excess of my expected performance, I get a bonus on.  It happens all the time, if everyone was smart they would negotiate contracts and wages based off performance bonuses.  It keeps you in a good light with your employer and it keeps you on top of your game because you get paid for it.

The people who make out best from the deal are the guys like Demian Maia, who locked up Sub of the Night at 83 and took home a cool 75K bonus.  You can feed yours and your brother's family with that.

Besides, they're the dudes that sign on the dotted line for the price to put their body on the line.  No one is forcing them, they decided it was a good idea.  If you don't like it, walk away from the table and work at Applebee's. :P

by Gabber on Apr 30, 2008 1:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
I have a feeling Demian Maia is going to get submission of the night on every card he is on, that submission on Herman.. don't even know what to call it, inverted triangle(?),  is probably one of the best submissions I've seen in MMA.

by DirtyML on Apr 30, 2008 1:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
It's still just a triangle. It's not altogether uncommon to see a guy do that in grappling tournaments.

by Luke Thomas on Apr 30, 2008 2:52 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
I'm not saying bonuses = bad.  I'm just saying it isn't a reasonable argument to say "they make more than you think they do" because they MIGHT be able to get a bonus.  Someone put in the position of say...Nate Quarry wouldn't possibly be able to get fight of the night and he likely wasn't getting sub or KO of the night either since he was facing a guy who wouldn't allow him the opportunity to try to finish the fight anyway.  He knows what his base pay is and that is all well and good.  But he is at a disadvantage to make the bonuses that Iole is using as "proof" that the pay is higher than you know.  Nate is left hoping that Dana gives him a pity bonus.

by brentbrookhouse on Apr 30, 2008 1:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
Yeah, well Nate also made the easiest cash I have ever seen someone make.  He spent 15 mins chasing a guy, didn't even get a scratch I imagine.  Kevin A-hole is a dumbass, I can't stand the dude, I'm arguing more about pay scale as opposed to what he considers proof of fair pay, my bad.  I'm saying these guys enter into a contract on the premise of what they signed.  If they enter into the contract with the anticipation of a bonus as a right instead of a reward, then they're setting themselves up for a fall.  That would be like me taking my sales contract and just believing I will make a bonus regardless of what the economy is doing.

I still think I would be more apt to believe that by and large for your "middle of the road" fighter, the UFC would pay better than most.  For the Tomato Can, they would probably undercut, someone like EliteXC might overpay to just fill the roster.  Now it seems as opposed to stocking cans though, the UFC is cutting them lose ala Doerksen, Starnes, Lutter..

Does anyone have any links of EliteXC's fighter payouts?  I know with Le vs Shamrock, there was a significant drop-off after the first two fights. :P

by Gabber on Apr 30, 2008 2:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
Bonuses are fine. It's how their handled that makes the difference.

In your job, everyone is entitled to a bonus provided they meet certain requirements. And the bonus system is in place to reward effort.

That's very different than saying X employee got a reward under the table for this month of performance yet employee Y got a bigger bonus the previous month even though he didn't do anything great (say his numbers were lower than X's overall but the best that particular month). That would be an infuriating and confusing scenario at best and in my mind, it's not one that behooves the fighter.

by Luke Thomas on Apr 30, 2008 2:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
I can agree with that to an extent but none of these fighters sign a contract based on bonuses.  These are all "under the table" or extra bonuses.  They sign their UFC contracts on the premise of pay to fight, pay to win.  If they don't negotiate a bonus, they have no right to expect one, in any way shape or form.  It doesn't matter what the job is, by and large, ass kissers get better treatment.  If you don't kiss ass, don't expect to get favorable treatment.

If you don't put on a good show, don't fucking well expect the locker room bonus Randy got.  If you don't build performance as part of your contract, don't expect a bonus. It's that simple.  I don't know how much transparency you have in your work place, but I know very little of what my co-workers make. It's none of my goddam business.  Just like my bonus is the information of none but mine and my employer.  I sure as hell wouldn't want a blog posting my salary for everyone to see every time a quarterly report comes up.  That's why I negotiate with my boss and not through a union with a charter.  We're talking a private company.  They have the right to give someone a bonus if he comes out in a Porky Pig suit with UFC Rulez tattooed on his back.  If the fighters want to form a union, best of luck to them.  But the bonus structure goes right down the toilet from that point on.

by Gabber on Apr 30, 2008 3:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
You're missing the point which is -- the UFC sends  their press lackey Kevin Iole out to talk about how generous they are with under the table bonuses in lieu of fair over the table payments.
They're doing this in direct response to Randy Couture's point yesterday that they paid all the fighters on every PPV in 2007 less than Floyd Mayweather made for 2 fights.

by Kid Nate on Apr 30, 2008 3:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
And when the UFC considers the under the table bonuses as a key part of their compensation package, it effectively makes it impossible for the fighters to knowledgeably negotiate their contracts since they have no idea what comparable athletes are being paid.

by Kid Nate on Apr 30, 2008 3:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
^^^^And that's the most serious point here.

by Luke Thomas on Apr 30, 2008 4:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
Look at it from the UFC's stand point. How is it in the UFC's best interest to make that information public?

You would place yourself at a disadvantage to the fighters and to your competitors in all negotiations.

As much as I would like to see fighters get paid what they deserve, the only inequity appears to be at the top level, and like it or not, no one in MMA is a draw on the level of Mayweather or Dela Hoya. It is their names that sell a single fight, and so they do deserve to reap the rewards.

History to date shows that the UFC is popular not MMA and people pay to see the UFC. The Affliction show may show that changing with Sylvia v Fedor, and we may see that MMA as a sport is on the rise, but I doubt it.      

 

by 2short on May 1, 2008 9:58 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
Part of what is off about Couture's point is that everyone who tuned into see the Mayweather fight did so just for Mayweather.  A large number of UFC fans are paying to see the UFC not some fighter in particular.  Half the people I watch with don't know or care who is going to fight in advance of an event.  Don't get me wrong.  They know who the fighters are, they're just not showing up to watch specific fighters.  It's more about the brand.

by Richard on Apr 30, 2008 7:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
I totally agree ... all the fights have the potential to be good and it is a fun night. Boxing just doesn't have any of that, beyond the one fight. Bonuses are life - the harder and smarter you work the better you do - unless you happen to be in a union and then everything is 'shared'.  There is a place for that, but I don't think it is the UFC or MMA in general.
Hank at Vancouver

by Hank on May 1, 2008 12:47 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
Its worth pointing out that Couture was expecting a 500k locker room bonus (thats what these are) and ended up getting nada (I think). To me that was always the one thing that seemed absurd and justified the action he is taking.

UFC's fighter relation policy can be boiled down to three words: Divide and Conquer.

by smoogy on Apr 30, 2008 6:04 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
Luke, how about you tell everyone your salary and the salary of everyone on the this website.  It's only fair...

by Dominic on Apr 30, 2008 6:50 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
No problem. We don't make a fucking thing.

by Luke Thomas on Apr 30, 2008 9:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
LOL.... I won't believe you until I see that statement certified by the NSAC..

by Dominic on Apr 30, 2008 9:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
Would the rest of the staff care to chime in?

by Luke Thomas on Apr 30, 2008 10:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
SBNation writers don't get a cut of the sponsors any more?

by Richard on May 1, 2008 1:08 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
If they are, my check has been lost in the mail for weeks.

by Luke Thomas on May 1, 2008 9:07 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
I recall getting a check when I wrote for Beyond the Boxscore.

by Richard on May 1, 2008 10:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
I think it's completely legitimate to say that fighters are paid much higher amounts by sponsors for being on UFC.  For example, in his 2 fights last year I've heard Keith Jardine made over 100,000 in sponsorships.  This makes his low salary a little more tolerable, though still poor.  He was also given one of those discretionary bonuses, but that is besides the point.  If you have someone that can sell your marketing spots and you're on a UFC, you do far better than anywhere else.

by Michael Rome on Apr 30, 2008 10:05 PM EDT   0 recs

Re: Kevin Iole Defends UFC Fighter Pay
Another consideration is 'job security'. Matt Lindland stated that he is not with Bodog because they didn't pay him - yet apparently he won't work with the UFC!?!? - have you ever heard of the UFC not paying their fighters? At least there is some security that the UFC is going to be around a little while and will pay their bills. It is still a growing sport and despite what people might think it is not nearly as established as boxing and as stated above, the money seems to be more spread out.  Not that any of us really have a clue what we are talking about :)

Another thing is how big are other promotions really; such as Elite XC? We couldn't even watch that show in Canada (at least here in Vancouver?) so how big is it really?

Hank at Vancouver

by Hank on May 1, 2008 12:53 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

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