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Questions for Ben Fowlkes

Ben is trashing the Kimbo Slice/Tank Abbott fight:

This fight is not a serious MMA bout, and everyone knows it. It's a sideshow spectacle. It belongs at a county fair or highway bar (what my dad would call a "juke joint", if you will). When I heard that the original plan to put it on in New Jersey fell through because an "investor" pulled out at the last minute, I thought that perhaps cooler heads had prevailed. Sadly, there's always someone ready to scoop up a match like this in the hopes of exploiting its "World's Wildest Police Chases" type appeal.

I initially opposed Kimbo's entrance into MMA, then supported it briefly, and now I'm mostly against it again.

But where Kimbo lost me was when he immediately challenged Tank Abbott to be his next opponent. That's when it started to look like he had no interest in becoming a real MMA fighter. He just wants to make some quick cash thumping on very beatable has-beens.

So fine, why shouldn't he get paid? We all sell what we have, whether it's violence or business acumen or, in the case of the ring girls, the ability to smile and hold a sign at the same time.

But does anybody think this fight will actually be interesting to watch? It's being sold purely on name value, which the promoters hope will be enough to get butts in the seats. And while it may be enough to draw a certain type of crowd, you have to wonder what people are coming to see. An MMA fight between two skilled, ambitious competitors? No. A backyard brawl with different scenery and six dollar beers? Probably.

Of course, he could always land a big haymaker and upset Kimbo, but what would that do to change the landscape of the MMA world or your perception of either fighter?  It's not that I'm against this fight. I'm just against the reasons for this fight.

Riddle me this Ben, how is Kimbo vs Tank any different than Matt Hughes vs Royce Gracie or any of the Tito Ortiz vs Ken Shamrock fights the UFC treated us to in the last couple of years?

How is it that the late PRIDE was so often held up as the gold standard of world-wide MMA when their bread and butter was spectacles, many of them more grotesque and less competitive than Kimbo/Tank?

As MMA Analyst writes:

Let's touch on the PRIDE promotional tactics. PRIDE loves to add these type of fights to their card because they had a love affair pitting David vs. Goliath. One of the biggest cases of the entertainment factor is Minowa or as many know him as "Minowaman". With his grand entrances and unbelievably risky moves he pulled in the PRIDE ring, he was one of those popular Japanese fighters that PRIDE fans in Japan loved to see. He would take fights while weighting 185 against guys like Eric "Butterbean" Esch and various crossover Japanese wrestlers. Other fights include Frye vs. Takayama, and the various brawler battles that PRIDE put on as a spectacle. They didn't have really any bearing in the division. Pitting Fedor against Zuluzinho was a complete joke, but PRIDE also tapped into the popularity of fighters as well. Sapp, Crocop, Fedor, and the list goes on.

If your objection to the Kimbo/Tank fight is not the fight, but the "reasons for the fight" why are you not objecting to the rumored Chuck Liddell vs Wanderlei Silva matchup? That match certainly has little bearing on the rankings and is solely being promoted to put butts in seats.

Takanori Gomi himself defended the spectacle approach to MMA matchmaking in a (now deleted) interview on Sherdog:

To say that Gomi is somewhat surprised at this assessment of K-1 HERO'S is one thing, though according to his answer, the focus on entertainment is a natural and acceptable conclusion to him that he has never quite questioned.

"It's necessary, so it's not really a bad thing," Gomi says. "You can't have title fight after title fight after title fight, because most people will not be able to follow it and get involved. You need to have entertainment for those who don't watch too often or may be watching for the first time to say, `Ah, those fights were entertaining. Let's watch this show again, next time they put on one.' Besides, doesn't your country enjoy fighters like Charles Bennett?"

0 recs | Comment 7 comments

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Re: Questions for Ben Fowlkes
The piece is also more of an opportunity to insult Tank Abbott than it is an explanation of why the fight is inappropriate.

by Luke Thomas on Oct 10, 2007 2:32 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Questions for Ben Fowlkes
I actually think the Liddell vs. Silva matchup does have entertainment value and it does have bearing in the division. If Silva wins, he moves up toward the mid to upper tier fighters, Liddell falls lower and hopefully off the face of the division so I can stop hearing White keep promoting him as two fights from title contention and hyping his lame style of never using his wrestling to beat opponents, only get back to his feet.

I think Silva vs. Liddell has a good amount of bearing in that division, although after that, I wouldn't know where to begin in matching them up again. I would think Griffin vs. Silva since it is now becoming a war of words.

by Leland Roling on Oct 10, 2007 6:46 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Questions for Ben Fowlkes
This is true, but you admit that either fighter is at least 4 wins from a title shot. Is Kimbo really that many fights away from a title shot -- sure it'll be in a smaller promotion, but with his fan base he'll be fighting Pedro Rizzo or Fedor three wins from now.

by Kid Nate on Oct 10, 2007 7:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Questions for Ben Fowlkes
Yes, Liddell and Silva are both significantly far away from a title shot... according to us. Dana White's love affair with his best buddy in Liddell and his love crush on Wanderlei may propell them to a title fight quicker. He can work a rematch angle for both fighters as well if they have to face Rampage as well, if he's still champion.

In a smaller promotions, Kimbo is close just for the simple fact he has buzz around him due to his Internet underground fights. People want to see the guy fight and it'll probably make them money. I mean, ESPN is doing a damn story on the guy.

by Leland Roling on Oct 10, 2007 11:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Questions for Ben Fowlkes
I'm not too keen on the fight...but it is more that I don't care to see Tank fight again.  He is 3 - 10 in his last 13 fights.  Why should I care about any of his fights?

And as far as Kimbo, I don't care about him either.  I'm not going to say that he shouldn't be fighting or that people shouldn't put him on cards.  He has a legal right to pursue a career in fighting and a promotion has the legal right to pay him to fight.

I do not, however, like him...he made his name through illegal activities (sorry but even mutually agreed upon street fights are illegal).  I just don't know that this sport is in a good enough place that any good comes out of him fighting and drawing the kind of press that comes with "street fighter" hype.

That is personal choice on my part though...I suppose that if I am not doing anything I'd tune in the fight.  So maybe I'm just a hypocrite.

by Brent Brookhouse on Oct 10, 2007 7:02 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Questions for Ben Fowlkes
Since this article is entitled "Questions for Ben Fowlkes", and since I am Ben Fowlkes, I might as well answer them:

Kid Nate wrote "how is Kimbo vs Tank any different than Matt Hughes vs Royce Gracie or any of the Tito Ortiz vs Ken Shamrock fights the UFC treated us to in the last couple of years?"

-Here's how: Hughes was a champion and Royce was a legend.  Both had winning records.  Sure, it was a mismatch and Royce should have known better, but both were serious fighters.  In this case, Kimbo is trying to become a serious fighter, and I hope he does.  But fighting Tank, who was never very good and never bothers to even get in shape, is a step backwards in that endeavor.

As for Ortiz-Shamrock, that was a rivalry thing.  Even so, both guys were legitimate athletes.  Tank is a barroom brawler willing to take a beating for a paycheck. He should have gone the elder statesman of MMA route by now.

Kid Nate also wrote: "How is it that the late PRIDE was so often held up as the gold standard of world-wide MMA when their bread and butter was spectacles, many of them more grotesque and less competitive than Kimbo/Tank?"

-When did I hold Pride up as a gold standard?  Pride's never even mentioned in my article.  They loved to put on mismatches and freak shows (Giant Silva, anyone?  Zuluzinho?), and I've called them out in previous articles.

Of course, I don't agree that these freak shows were Pride's "bread and butter", as you claim.  Pride put on some great matches.  Many more good ones than bad, I'd argue.

Kid Nate wrote: "If your objection to the Kimbo/Tank fight is not the fight, but the "reasons for the fight" why are you not objecting to the rumored Chuck Liddell vs Wanderlei Silva matchup? That match certainly has little bearing on the rankings and is solely being promoted to put butts in seats."

-How can you seriously claim that Liddell-Silva would have no bearing on UFC rankings?  The winner of that fight is immediately in line behind Jardine and maybe Forrest Griffin for a title shot.  Not to mention, they're two ex-champions who are still well-regarded.

Kimbo has won one MMA fight against a retired boxer.  And Tank?  What has Tank done in the last 2 1/2 years except lose and look bad doing it?

The main thrust of my article was that I don't think Tank-Kimbo would be a fight worth watching.  If you want to watch it, you're welcome to it.  But honestly, it confounds me when people get outraged at any slight against Tank Abbott.  He was the old guard of MMA.  He never evolved.  The sport is doing fine without him.  I don't hear anyone jabbering about how they want to see Joe Son or Keith Hackney, and there's a good reason.

Tank is done.  Let Tank go.  Kimbo should fight a real opponent.  That's all I'm saying.

http://thefightinglife.com

by Ben Fowlkes on Oct 11, 2007 6:45 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Re: Questions for Ben Fowlkes
Works for me Ben! thanks for responding

by Kid Nate on Oct 11, 2007 7:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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