UFC 143: Diaz Vs. Condit Results And Post-Fight Analysis
by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 5, 2012 1:50 AM EST
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Carlos Condit was able to use movement to keep Nick Diaz from really ever getting off through the majority of five rounds in the UFC 143 main event and it was good enough to win him the interim welterweight championship. As for Nick Diaz? It was enough to send him into retirement.
...or at least what he says will be his retirement.
I scored the fight 49-46 for Condit, it seemed pretty clear to me that he won the first four rounds, even if the first two were reasonably close. I thought the fight was a thoroughly enjoyable affair that saw Condit fight smart and never allow himself to get pinned up against the cage where Diaz has done his best work over the past few years. While many felt it was "running," to me it was taking advantage of Diaz's footwork and openings to get back out into the middle of the cage where he could score with leg kicks and pick and choose when to engage with combinations.
The reality is, strategy is important at the upper end of fight sports. In the same weight class where we saw the whole "Georges St. Pierre got too strategic once he got to the top of the sport" cries, we now are seeing it with Condit. Maybe it's that there are so many dangers at 170 that sometimes it takes a strategic approach to get the win.
Asking Condit to stand and trade with Diaz is asking him to do the same thing that got fighter after fighter busted up by Nick.
Carlos earned his victory and his shot at St. Pierre. I know I'll be looking forward to that fight when the time comes.
- I have a feeling Diaz thinks by "retiring" from the UFC, he can try the boxing thing that he has floated so often. Once the UFC lets him know that their contract doesn't exactly allow that, I have a feeling we'll see Diaz right back in the UFC Octagon.
- Diaz is still absolutely one of the best 170 pounders in the sport and will trouble almost anyone in the sport. I hope he really isn't walking away, even if I do really hate his inability to ever handle failure with any semblance of professionalism.
- I can't wait for the next round of cries that Roy Nelson suddenly cut to 205 pounds and learn a completely new way to fight at 35 years of age. The Roy Nelson who has proven time and time again that he can't handle top end heavyweights is the real version. He's the only one you're getting, so just accept it.
- Fabricio Werdum's muay thai looked very solid tonight. He was able to work knees, leg kicks and decent punching combinations to wreck Nelson over three rounds. He had some scary moments where Nelson appeared to get in with big enough power to sting him, but Werdum would just fire back and take the fight right back over. I'm not sure I buy into the idea that he can hang with Junior dos Santos because he was better at beating up Roy Nelson, but it was an impressive performance.
- Josh Koscheck survived an ugly, ugly fight against Mike Pierce. I don't know what to say other than that Pierce's toughness and Koscheck's inability to diversify his striking beyond "throw right hand hard" made the fight a bit harder than it really should have been.
- The real defining moment from the Koscheck/Pierce fight was Herb Dean not taking a point from Koscheck. After one warning "in the action" for reaching out with his hands open, and then a time where Dean stopped the fight to warn Koscheck to not poke the eyes, Koscheck eventually poked Pierce in the eye. That is exactly a situation where a point should be taken. Koscheck was given a clear warning and did not heed the referee's instructions, resulting in a foul. That was a failure on Herb's part, and totally inconsistent from earlier in the evening when he took two points from Alex Caceres for a second horrible low blow.
Much more after the jump...
SBN coverage of UFC 143: Diaz vs. Condit
- Renan Barao beat a very tough opponent in Scott Jorgensen at 143. But he displayed some cardio issues that cause some concern for a potential title fight and he also wasn't quite exciting enough in victory to elevate him to that status as a title challenger some of us were hoping for. I think he needs one more solid win before putting him in a title fight.
- Clifford Starks is a talented fighter and good enough that Ed Herman's win over him carries some solid meaning. Herman's last few fights have been very impressive and encouraging after a horrible injury layoff.
- Max Holloway did a good enough job despite being trounced by Dustin Poirier that people are still saying that he's got a bright future. I can't say I disagree but I'm still more excited about Poirier's future as I remain more impressed by him every time I see him.
- Alex Caceres lost his fight against Edwin Figueroa entirely because of a two point deduction for kicks to the groin. For those wondering, a two point deduction is completely legitimate and the violence of both kicks make me not too upset about it having happened.
- Chris Cope will hopefully never be on another UFC card. Props to Matt Brown for finishing him in violent fashion.
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If Diaz goes to box
He will be destroyed and/or outpointed.
I like Diaz, although I hate his attitude that if you don’t play to his strengths you didn’t come to fight
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by IRodC on Feb 5, 2012 1:56 AM EST reply actions 11 recs
This is what pisses me off about the reaction to this.
It’s somehow on Carlos the fight Nick Diaz’ fight. A championship level fighter(and corner) would have adjusted based on what their opponent was doing. It’s just like when Frankie beat BJ and his corner was there calling Frankie names instead of telling him to do stuff. Koscheck even adjusted his gameplan when Pierce was pressing him against the cage.
by HaterSlayer on Feb 5, 2012 2:35 AM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Recced for thruth.
If Diaz was a good as people built him up to be, then why couldn’t he adjust his gameplan when it was obvious that his usual “back opponent into cage” tactic was going to work? He’s still a great fighter, but Condit exposed and exploited a glaring hole in his game.
because his corner thought he was winning
Listen closely, Nate tells him he’s up 3-1 heading into the 5th round. That’s just awful, awful, awful corning advice. If he at least thought he was losing, he would have had a sense of urgency in the fifth instead of getting outstruck again before making things interesting in the final minute.
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by Brian Hemminger on Feb 5, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I'm going to write a fanpost on this
Cornermen in MMA are terrible most of the time. Never tell your fighter they won a round unless there on some 10-8 shit.
by discoandherpes on Feb 5, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, Nate just can't say something like that...
….it can clearly change a fighters mind set…..what fight was Nate watching?
formerly NeilLomaxFan
by BrothersGottaAndyHug on Feb 5, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Condit fought to win, not to finish, and i can respect that
What he did is equivilant to a Football team running it up the middle against a weak running defense. is it pretty? no. will you get flashy touchdown catches and highlight reel moments? no. but will you win because of it? Yes.
Besides, you know all these haters will be right back on his bandwagon the second he knocks out GSP. in fact, someone should go ahead and list the people who think he is a runner now so they can get called out for being bandwagon fans.
"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts
by justsomehawkeyefan on Feb 5, 2012 5:04 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Well, he did ask Condit if they were going to be throwing spinning shit…
by Empty Thoughts on Feb 5, 2012 9:40 AM EST up reply actions
exactly i really dont see how carlos didnt get 4 rounds but whatever UD for the home team im just glad this hype train is over for nick and we can get back to guys who actually are martial artists. nick diaz doesnt have the attitude of one and he showed it tonight he’d showed exactly why i dont like him like really talk shit in fights your losing? be a sore loser and say your retiring cause you hate gameplans? oh i forgot your trainer is a jack ass as well. im sorry im just happy that the 209 is once again in pieces
like water
and this was the way i felt watching the reem kill brock
"He got knee'd right in the diverticulitis
by Balrog on Dec 30, 2011 9:20 PM PST"
Forrest Condit...
Run Carlos, RUN!!!!
Martial Artist, Really? Watching Condit was like watching the Tae Kwon Do point scoring events in the Olympics (except of course, the Olympians don’t sprint away at the first sight of a counter attack).
You gotta pay the troll toll to get into this boy's hole, you gotta pay the troll toll to get in.
by oousty on Feb 5, 2012 2:15 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
What exactly is the problem with what Carlos did?
Did he get outlanded? Nope. Did he outland? Yes.
Is it his attitude for not going for the finish—whatever that means?
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how are you supposed to fight someone who literally jogs away?
Carlos ran, backpedalled, retreated, avoided all contact, etc once Nick got within range. Not the type of game plan that should be rewarded with a belt. Jab with a kick, throw a punch then “oh shit! run!”
His attitude is similar to:
1. any NFL receiver that will not go over the middle for a ball
2. an MLB outfielder not diving for a ball.
3. JMM running from Manny in their last boxing match
4. Old Rashad Evans lay and pray (he is such a better fighter now then he was under the Jackson system)
You gotta pay the troll toll to get into this boy's hole, you gotta pay the troll toll to get in.
So, it is his ATTITUDE that bothers you.
I mean, he did a good counterfight, and outlanded Nick. He did more damage.
And he ran away like a scaredy cat, too. And? I mean, I was rooting for Nick, but what Carlos did was effective and dangerous, he wasn’t fucking around.
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Draft #: 69--The magic number.
by Unabomberman on Feb 5, 2012 2:38 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
or, you know
don’t be a boxer with no takedowns who doesn’t power punch. Perfect gameplan against Nick.
Also he didn’t, but keep imagining that he did.
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by Cory Braiterman on Feb 5, 2012 2:40 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It’s amazing how that works. When the guy supposedly running away steps in to hit, you hit him first. Even better, when the guy supposedly running away starts to run away you cut him off and hit him.
Btw, that isn’t how the fight played out anyways. Easier to go with it that than just admit that Diaz expected Condit to stand and brawl with him and couldn’t adjust when he didn’t.
by Empty Thoughts on Feb 5, 2012 3:11 AM EST up reply actions
People don’t understand that it’s Diaz’s fault. He walks at you and doesn’t cut off your retreat points like what it really means to “cut off the cage”
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 5, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions
Fucking angles?
How do they work?
by discoandherpes on Feb 5, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I suspect the people claiming it’s Condit’s fault were mocking Fabricio Werdum for pulling guard against Overeem. Surely by their logic Alistair was obliged to fight Fabricio’s fight, right?
"You know, these guys want to talk about God. 'Oh, I want to thank God. I want to thank God.' Listen, I'm a God-fearing man, go to church every Sunday and have since I was a boy. But if I ever found out that God cared one way or another about a borderline illegal fist-fight on Saturday night, I would be so greatly disappointed that it would make rethink my entire belief system." ~ Chael Sonnen.
If you can’t get the fight to where you want it and keep it there, you lose. Nt to mention that Carlos was hitting nick with some serious shots everywhere in he cage. He exchanged a shot or two to create space almost every time he was backed up against the fence.
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your face is terrible.
You gotta pay the troll toll to get into this boy's hole, you gotta pay the troll toll to get in.
Go to bed
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by halitosis on Feb 5, 2012 2:41 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
brush your teeth
but i am going to bed now
You gotta pay the troll toll to get into this boy's hole, you gotta pay the troll toll to get in.
Get lost oousty
Condit landed some awesome combos, I can’t really recall what Diaz did, at all besides the take down. Diaz should have adjusted. This isn’t Strikeforce, or BJ Penn who is going to get emotional during a fight and get caught up in Diaz’s up-against-the-cage-swinging-away game.
It wasn't even so much that Penn got emotional
As that he got gassed and couldn’t get off the cage midway through the second.
by Scott Whitaker on Feb 5, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
Also, nobody likes C-Murder
Thanks Luke
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by IRodC on Feb 5, 2012 1:56 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Weird-to-bad reffing tonight all the way around.
Herb breaking up fights way faster than he should have. Weird inconsistency with taking points/warnings. Just not so good, by some usually good refs.
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To take off 2 from Caceres and then none from Kos for the eye pokes was ridiculous
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by sun yue on Feb 5, 2012 2:03 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Agree
At that point, it was blatant.
"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.
I don't think he was purposefully trying to poke him,
but he warned him and he kept doing it.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
Normally I'd agree
But it isn’t nearly the first time Kos would be accused of dirty fighting. After two warning and an eyepoke he was STILL doing it briefly. At that point, I feel you have to assume it’s intentional.
"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.
Kos is a cheat, and unapologetic about it.
Remember the illegal knee Daley hit him with?
Oh…right, Kos faked getting fouled,just like Wayne Rooney falling from a phantom trip inside the box.
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snatchi
thats precisely why i hate koscheck. he cheats when he gets in bad spots. and he lost last night too.
by UFC Champ 42O on Feb 5, 2012 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Really shitty officiating IMO
There was no precedence.
Alex literally landed two illegal kicks and was docked 2 points. That’s ridiculous.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Those were pretty bad kicks though
it clearly took a lot out of Figueroa, especially the last one.
I kind of got the feeling that Figueroa was playing it up,
especially after he faked getting dick kicked. There’s no room in MMA for flopping.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
Then he should have took a DQ win instead of a tainted decision.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
by TheFilt on Feb 5, 2012 3:07 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
He might not have received his win bonus for a win by DQ, though – some fighter contracts give that option to the promoter.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 5, 2012 3:09 AM EST up reply actions
Didn't know that
Thanks for the info
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
by TheFilt on Feb 5, 2012 3:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
@TheFilt
….I see what you did there, working in the word “taint” regarding a fight that featured multiple low blows….#genius
formerly NeilLomaxFan
by BrothersGottaAndyHug on Feb 5, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
I actually disagree
Here’s the difference:
The low blows really made a difference to how the Caceres/Figueroa fight played out. Figueroa wasn’t the same afterwards. It wasn’t something he could completely recover from.
The same isn’t true of the eye pokes. Pierce wasn’t fighting differently, his vision wasn’t shot, etc.
So here’s the principle I figure Herb Dean was relying on: the ref shouldn’t make him/herself the story of the fight. In the one case, the story was already going to be low blows. In the other case, the fight played out more or less naturally, but if Herb had deducted a point, the story would have been “Herb Dean gave Pierce a decision win”.
by phenylenginerods on Feb 5, 2012 6:46 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Herb Dean was great and then horrible in the span of 2 hours
Writing things on occasion @ Head Kick Legend.
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The first thing I thought was what kind of lose will he accept. Does he feel he needs to be obliterated in order for it to count. He’s getting the warrior way stuff mixed up with sports. Does he want a GSP-Koscheck broken orbital and out for a year kinda beating in order for it to count. I think he does.
by Inspectorxr5 on Feb 5, 2012 2:01 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Koscheck isn’t pulling the trigger anymore. That was a CLOSE fight.
by Inspectorxr5 on Feb 5, 2012 2:02 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Condit showed the best running game I have seen since houston alexander pulled that gem against kimbo.
by The_Devil_You_Know on Feb 5, 2012 2:03 AM EST reply actions
such a good fight
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and for the diaz fans
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Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Feb 5, 2012 2:04 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
Quietly leading Cecil Peoples Champs to victory and beyond.
All in the game yo, all in the game
by Our Bovine Public on Feb 5, 2012 8:10 AM EST up reply actions
Power can be a curse.
Kos and Nelson looked horrible with their striking tonight.
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Tell me about it
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by halitosis on Feb 5, 2012 2:43 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Loll @ Chris Cope will hopefully never be on another UFC card
And at Fabricio Werdum pointing at the floor trying to get big country looking away while eating knees.
In my opinion, Roy Nelson got robbed the same as Tery Etim got stopped early versus Barbosa…I mean…the guy still had his guard up…
All around a good night of fight.
Asking Condit to stand and trade with Diaz is asking him to do the same thing that got fighter after fighter busted up by Nick.
Exactly. Diaz seemed like he expected Condit to just “bring it.” Instead, Condit outsmarted him and outstruck him.
"You've got Floyd Mayweather making $25 million. He can't stop a double-leg..." Nick Diaz.
Diaz always expects that of folk.
And so far they have been nothing but obliguing. Had Carlos fallen in Nick’s game, he could have either a) gotten winded and outpointed by the Stockton slap, or b) KTFO’d Nick real quick during a heated brawl.
Carlos went with option c) which entailed not fucking falling into Nick’s game.
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You know who didn't do that
BJ Penn
and Diaz beat the fuck out of him
Greatest lover ever during the day, Trainyard Sleeper at night.
But that's because it's fucking BJ Penn
if he didn’t show up fat he probably could have continued beating Diaz after the first round.
I was impressed with Carlos’ discipline and ability to stick to the game plan.
"You've got Floyd Mayweather making $25 million. He can't stop a double-leg..." Nick Diaz.
by pud333 on Feb 5, 2012 2:10 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
He really fought an absolutely perfect fight.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 5, 2012 2:19 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
An "absolutely perfect fight" isn't a controversial split decision that could have gone either way.
Condit fought good. He got a decision against another very good fighter. But the hyperbole is out of control. Diaz easily could have gotten that decision. I think he earned it but it was close. And close fights mean the winner didn’t fight “perfect” of anywhere close to it. GSP was perfect against Fitch. Anderson was perfect against Forrest. Condit was good against Diaz.
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by pdl on Feb 5, 2012 2:27 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It wasn't a split decision
But agreed with everything else.
by discoandherpes on Feb 5, 2012 2:28 AM EST up reply actions
Blame gin.
I’ve had a lot of it.
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by pdl on Feb 5, 2012 2:31 AM EST up reply actions
What, precisely, could Condit have done better than he did tonight? What mistakes did he make? He had the perfect gameplan to beat Diaz – throw tons of low kicks, strike to set up your movement, don’t get caught against the cage, and don’t go to the ground – and he executed it flawlessly. The fact that the fight ended in a close unanimous decision is more about how evenly matched Condit and Diaz are than the quality of Condit’s performance.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 5, 2012 2:33 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
People wanted a brawl like Shogun vs Hendo. That's what.
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Draft #: 69--The magic number.
Fair point.
That would’ve been fun, but I’m plenty satisfied with what we ended up with.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 5, 2012 2:38 AM EST up reply actions
He could have not let the rounds be close.
He could have stayed off the cage instead of needing to escape it. He could have sat down on his leg kicks and gone under Diaz’s leg kicks. He could have not given his back and not needed to fight a choke in the fifth. He could have landed more strikes to the head . He could have slipped Nicks strikes and countered with power instead of retreating. He could have led with a straight right, gone under the counters, and exited at an angle.
Saying Condit fought a perfect fight is badly misunderstanding what the word perfect means. Or a severe disconnect from what happened in the cage.
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by pdl on Feb 5, 2012 2:39 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
*gone under Diaz's counters, not leg kicks.
Again… gin.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
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by pdl on Feb 5, 2012 2:40 AM EST up reply actions
I am of the idea that the fighter knows better than the viewers, in that case.
He did enough to win a close fight when Diaz wouldn’t fucking slow down after having his legs fucking kicked to hell, and also his head.
I mean, do you at least admit he won?
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Draft #: 69--The magic number.
I scored it 48-47 for Diaz live and stand by it until I can rewatch.
But I said before the scores were called that it was close and if it went Diaz then I wouldn’t raise hell over it. Still people calling Condit brilliant and saying he fought a perfect fight are being dumb. He won a narrow decision. Floyd Mayweather fights perfect fights. Condit just won a tough one.
I got this 48-47 Diaz, but won’t raise any hell if it goes Condit.
— pdl (@pdlmma) February 5, 2012
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
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by pdl on Feb 5, 2012 2:45 AM EST up reply actions
Sure
I’m saying that Condit fought to the absolute limits of his abilities – in my mind, that constitutes perfection, contextually speaking. Condit isn’t Shogun or Edson Barboza in terms of the power behind his low kicks; tonight was as much power as I’ve ever seen him display in his kicks, and if you have counterexamples by all means share them. Maybe I’m missing something. Same goes for his countering and taking sharp angles on those counters; that’s not his game, and wouldn’t have fit with the gameplan even if it was.
Point is, you’re judging Condit’s performance against an abstract idea of the perfect performance. I’m judging Condit against the body of evidence we have as to the limits of his skill sets and physical talents. He’s not Anderson and he’s not GSP, he’s Carlos Condit, and that should be the standard of comparison.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 5, 2012 2:47 AM EST up reply actions
He wasn't perfect
Early in that fight he ate some big shots, and got out grappled toward the end.
Lets reserve perfect for fights like Silva/Griffin or Jones/Shogun.
by discoandherpes on Feb 5, 2012 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
I think a big part of that
was that he had a lot of respect of Nick.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Yes.
I remember for a long time people kept putting down Nick’s punching as “pitter patter.”
"You've got Floyd Mayweather making $25 million. He can't stop a double-leg..." Nick Diaz.
He looks more powerful every fight. Those body shots (when he got tight enough to use them) were absolutely brutal.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 5, 2012 2:26 AM EST up reply actions
C-Murder I never liked your nickname the only reason I wished him to lose violently
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The boxer’s who train with Diaz say that he has great hands, but his footwork isn’t that good, and we saw that tonight. He couldn’t cut off Condit all night.
Dana just said Diaz has at least 1 more fight on his contract with UFC, and that he’d love to see a Diaz/Koscheck fight, so I bet we see Diaz again.
My thought process when this happened (I love me some Big Country)
Cmon Roy…. Cmon…
YES! Get him, get him, get him…shit! …nononononononono!
Get the hell out of there! Don’t be a hero! Don’t pull a Fedor!
It’s a twap! Alright, whew…WTF are you doing let go of his legs!
That was an awesome fight.
by jason18 on Feb 5, 2012 2:08 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I like both guys and I was yelling when Roy dove into his guard.
That almost turned out really band for Country.
Even though I was rooting for Roy
That was the most awesome moment of the fight for me. So much tension on both ends (first Roy getting the knockdown, then Werdum almost getting the submission).
And god damnit if it isn’t hilarious how Werdum grins like a goofball every time someone knocks him down and follows into his guard.
by Scott Whitaker on Feb 5, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions
I love Brent's venom towards Cope
Because I agree with it completely.
It's like saying you dislike Don Frye's mustache, which itself is the equivalent of spitting on the Constitution. - Anthony Pace
same here
that guy is a card stain.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
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by Dave Strummer on Feb 5, 2012 2:12 AM EST up reply actions
I hope Roy drops to 205
so people realize that heavyweights aren’t very talented after he gets shitkicked by 205ers.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
He's 35. He can't fight differently, now.
He’d get trucked, most likely.
Or…Dana could offer him a money fight after Forrest trucks Tito.
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.
Draft #: 69--The magic number.
Matyushenko would roll Roy Nelson at 205. Thiago Silva would put him in the hospital.
Alex Gustafsson would shitkick Roy badly. Let him drop to 205 and remind people why heavyweights are heavyweights.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Feb 5, 2012 2:15 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
The only things Nelson has going for him are his chin, his size in top position, and his big right hand. None of those things translate well to LHW.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 5, 2012 2:17 AM EST up reply actions
Unless he fight Shogun.
Both are pretty immobile now and would put a hell of a rock-em-sock-em fight. But that’s just me being an amoral bastard, and I’d rather they not give me the pleasure of watching it.
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.
Draft #: 69--The magic number.
That could be fun
But only for Nelson to play punching bag again. If Nelson couldn’t keep up with Werdum’s movement at heavyweight, he won’t be able to handle Shogun’s angles (imagine the low kicks, the horror, the horror!) at 205.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 5, 2012 2:21 AM EST up reply actions
Shogun didn't do any of those things against Hendo.
He didn’t even try. I think he may just have shifted his style to accommodate his loss of mobility.
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.
Draft #: 69--The magic number.
Clear reason for that
Hendo countered the low kick with his overhand right every time – that was what caught Shogun in the first, so he stopped throwing them – but Nelson isn’t fast enough to do it effectively.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 5, 2012 2:24 AM EST up reply actions
Hadn't noticed that.
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.
Draft #: 69--The magic number.
Shogun would do violent, bad things to Roy.
And Shogun is a middleweight. He’s too fast and too strong and too good on the ground. Roy is maybe half as good as Shogun at anything and isn’t as good of a natural athlete.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Feb 5, 2012 2:21 AM EST up reply actions
Shogun fights light heavywieght
hasn’t fought middlewieght since rings in the early naughties
by Cameron Daddo on Feb 5, 2012 6:52 AM EST up reply actions
He's talking about Shogun's frame
Given the context of “Is Nelson a fat 205er?”
"You know, these guys want to talk about God. 'Oh, I want to thank God. I want to thank God.' Listen, I'm a God-fearing man, go to church every Sunday and have since I was a boy. But if I ever found out that God cared one way or another about a borderline illegal fist-fight on Saturday night, I would be so greatly disappointed that it would make rethink my entire belief system." ~ Chael Sonnen.
Shogun would do bad things to Roy.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 5, 2012 2:49 AM EST up reply actions
sure Condit won
but its the way he won the Greg Jackson way. Can anyone say they are that excited to see GSP/Condit after tonight? After all the fotn/foty talk this didnt live up to the hype at all. Diaz was spot on in the post fight thats how u wanna win? The games changes ladies look at last week with rashad now this good luck building a new fanbase UFC with main events like these.
by nickrodamous on Feb 5, 2012 2:11 AM EST via mobile reply actions
By point fighting
and winning a boring decsion.
by nickrodamous on Feb 5, 2012 2:13 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
Not everyone found it boring.
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.
Draft #: 69--The magic number.
While I understand your point
I think it is smarter not to fall into an opponent’s game. I can appreciate a good slugfest as much as any other guy but I don’t think there’s anything wrong with fighting smartly and I do think I got my money’s worth from this PPV.
by Maesterz on Feb 5, 2012 2:18 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I saw a good fight. Sure, it was a little repetitive. But maybe if Nick had something besides taunting to get people to play his game…
Basically this was a it takes two to tango situation. Diaz doesn’t like to bring it; he likes it when his opponents act like punching bags.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
Wasn't the war people expected, wasn't boring either.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 5, 2012 2:50 AM EST up reply actions
In other words, yes, by fighting smarter than him
"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts
by justsomehawkeyefan on Feb 5, 2012 5:09 AM EST up reply actions
I think people find offense to a fighter committing more to winning whatever the cost than to winning by finishing.
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.
Draft #: 69--The magic number.
fair enough.
let me ask you this did any of you pay for the ppv? if so did you feel you got your moneys worth? this ppv relied heavily on the main event which didnt deliver bottom line.
by nickrodamous on Feb 5, 2012 2:17 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
can i borrow 50$ then?
since u like to piss away your money. Wow that baro/jogensen fight was a real nail bitter. how about ed herman and clifford starks? koscheck and roy nelson did what they do best chear (eye poke) get punched in the face alot and gas respectively.
by nickrodamous on Feb 5, 2012 2:22 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
i have wanted to see diaz get ko'd
in every fight i root against him i just dont agree with the way Condit won and see it as the future of mma its posioning the sport point fighting/wrestling/lay n pray whatever u want to call it
by nickrodamous on Feb 5, 2012 2:27 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
a grammar nazi too?
thats fucking orignial did you go to yale? sorry im using my phone and refuse to use correct punctuation here is one of your fifties back come be my proof reader and proof read my be posts.
by nickrodamous on Feb 5, 2012 2:32 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Why are you so mad?
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.
Draft #: 69--The magic number.
its annoying when people play the grammar nazi card
and just a pathetic attempt at an insult like they litteraly cant fire off a comeback so thats the last result really? cmon now you can read it without commas just go slow sound it out insert your own commas in your head it wi be fun since you love grammar and puncuation so much
by nickrodamous on Feb 5, 2012 2:37 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I meant in general.
Is it Condit’s attitude? B/c it seems that he did win that fight. It was close, but whatever.
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.
Draft #: 69--The magic number.
I'm tossing in $50
To buy you the complete set of Felony Fights DVDs. That seems right up your alley.
Shut up.
Geez
Please donate what you can to the Daniel James Miller Foundation.
Ruining your special night roster: (mostly because I forget who's on my team)
Earl Montclair (Captain), Me, KJ_ZametovStPierre, AboveThisFire, RobertCowan, sunyue, Farthammer, trice, DirtyML, Rutager, and mountaineers101
by halitosis on Feb 5, 2012 2:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Tough for them
this is a sport
^ the only thing that matters.
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Feb 5, 2012 2:41 AM EST up reply actions
The Roy Nelson who has proven time and time again that he can’t handle top end heavyweights is the real version. He’s the only one you’re getting, so just accept it.
I fully accept and enjoy the version of Roy Nelson that we have now. While I wish he would lose weight for long-term health reasons, I like having him as a HW. He goes out and, for the most part, puts on entertaining fights that both casuals and hardcores will enjoy.
The man is a great gatekeeper. He stops the Struves of the world and then allows the better HWs to put on nice striking displays. Just look at what he did for Werdum. His last fight in SF we saw him flopping to mat like Aoki and now we see him trying wheel kicks and schoolyard “point to the ground before I hit you” stuff.
Leave Roy where he is. If nothing else, he’s a HW fighter that people will talk about and that’s rare enough these days.
Bud, health reasons? You realize that having a bit of fat on you isn’t actually bad for you, right? You don’t need a six pack to be healthy. The 20 pounds of extra fat Nelson has is in no way detrimental to his health.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
Is it only 20?
And yeah, right now it’s not an issue. What about when he’s done fighting and isn’t working out so much?
Regardless, you’re probably right. I’ve been brainwashed by the trainers at my new gym.
If Roy Nelson wants to improve his long-term health
Not getting thumped in the head dozens of times in the space of 15 minutes might be the place to start.
"You know, these guys want to talk about God. 'Oh, I want to thank God. I want to thank God.' Listen, I'm a God-fearing man, go to church every Sunday and have since I was a boy. But if I ever found out that God cared one way or another about a borderline illegal fist-fight on Saturday night, I would be so greatly disappointed that it would make rethink my entire belief system." ~ Chael Sonnen.
Loved the poiting to the ground stuff.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 5, 2012 2:53 AM EST up reply actions
Apparently Kos got booted from AKA
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
What?
SAUCE.
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.
Draft #: 69--The magic number.
News that went down at the press conference...
And I’m listening to Breen on Beatdown After the Bell and according to him, Kos ditched training camp for a week.
If Derek Jeter clubbed a baby seal on earth day while wearing a mink coat and crocodile skin boots while burning tires on an iceberg, the reaction would be "Its OK Derek, you’re a Yankee." -First mammal to wear pants
I guess that Fitch vs Koscheck fight might be happening after all...
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.
Draft #: 69--The magic number.
I'm a fan of neither
But I’ll gladly pay to see that fight.
I hope Diaz goes to boxing
Where he will face far more defensive fighters and stick-and-move guys than he does in MMA.
By absolutely every measure, Condit won. “Octagon control” is silly—what’s more important is controlling the distance, and he did that far better. He landed more strikes, and if you look at their post-fight pics, he did a lot more damage to Diaz’s face.
If Diaz fans are complaining about Condit’s kicks that did no damage… well, most of Diaz’s punches are thrown without power too. So are you counting power or volume? If you’re counting power-strikes, Condit landed more—he landed very solid kicks, knees and hooks. If you’re counting the sheer volume, Condit still landed more. If you’re looking at the damage, Diaz’s face is cut up and Condit just has a mouse. If you’re looking at that last round submission attempt by Diaz, Condit escaped and just about got Diaz’s back.
Don’t whine “Diaz face always gets cut” — he gets cut because he takes hits to deal hits, only this time, he wasn’t able to deal his damage.
So chill, Diaz fans. It was close in the sense that it wasn’t a Jon Jones domination or a KO or submission, but Condit out-worked Diaz in every way.
by spamslots on Feb 5, 2012 2:12 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
everyone is mad
cuz the card was mostly boring fights with a main event a lot of ppl disagree about and ended with Nick Diaz possibly retiring from the sport. also, Goldie spay mad fightmetric stats at us all night and i missed the new opening.
"is my penis really small, or are my thighs just really big?"
by lukustra on Feb 5, 2012 2:12 AM EST via mobile reply actions
i also thought nick had probably won.
i gave him the 1st, 2nd, and 5th. mainly cuz he back peddled the first two without landing much. but i can’t see how cp gave condit 4 rounds especially 3rd to Diaz. horrible judging.
"is my penis really small, or are my thighs just really big?"
by lukustra on Feb 5, 2012 2:16 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
So according to some logic here
If Matt Riddle fights like Matt Riddle, he sucks
But if Condit doesn’t fight like Matt Riddle he sucks too
Greatest lover ever during the day, Trainyard Sleeper at night.
Seems to be the trend in here.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 5, 2012 2:55 AM EST up reply actions
And if Matt Riddle doesn't fight like Matt Riddle
he still sucks.
by phenylenginerods on Feb 5, 2012 6:56 AM EST up reply actions
Roy Nelson is too old to cut to 205
But really, that’s where he should have been all along. It’s amazing that he got as far as he did in the heavyweight division, because he is fricking small compared to every other heavy in the UFC.
He is short, short-limbed, and not powerfully muscled. A lot of his fighting weight is LITERALLY fat. If you plastic-surgeried the fat off, Nelson would weigh around 220 and have the build and size of a light-heavy.
I agree that he can’t make it down a weight class anymore, but Roy Nelson just isn’t a true heavyweight.
He'd probably be around 200lbs
If he was ripped.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
LOL
he’d be lucky to be 185 without cutting if he was ripped. riddle probably has a larger structure/muscle then Roy.
"is my penis really small, or are my thighs just really big?"
by lukustra on Feb 5, 2012 2:37 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
You might be right
But obviously we are on the same page.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
I'm a Diaz fan, I was rooting for him
but I gotta admit that Condit came in with the perfect game plan. He didn’t lose his cool when Diaz taunted him, he stuck to the plan the entire time, and didn’t get stuck against the cage where Diaz likes to trap people. It wasn’t one of the most entertaining fights of Carlos’ career, but it worked, and that’s what mattered in the end. Nick is still one of my favorite fighters to watch, but my hat goes off to Condit for coming in and getting it done.
"The greatest enemy will hide in the last place you would ever look." - Revolver
by flyingkneetoface on Feb 5, 2012 2:19 AM EST reply actions
Leg kicks have come a long way
at least to judge cp. just a couple years ago Shogun couldnt win a fight with leg kicks against machida even while he pressed forward the whole fight. Tonight Condit won with leg kicks while circling and running away.
by nickrodamous on Feb 5, 2012 2:40 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I saw this during the live blog, but does Velasquez vs. Werdum interest anyone?
Nick Denis is me.
Huge mutherfuking fan of Jon Fitch and Jon Jones.
It would be interesting
Even though think Cain wins
Greatest lover ever during the day, Trainyard Sleeper at night.
I love Fabricio
But he couldn’t handle Cain’s pace. Fabricio could win a round, possibly submit him if they went to the ground, but he’d be toasted by the halfway point.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 5, 2012 2:23 AM EST up reply actions
Not quite sure where to say this but.. THE BUS FEEDERS RAVAGED SOULS TONIGHT. FOUR OF THE TOP THIRTEEN FED BUSES.
"Computer being attacked by virus contracted from watching illegal japanese schoold girl porn. Bare with me." - Our Bovine Public
Captain of The Bus Feeders, Bloody Elbow Civil War, Season Two
by T.C. Engel on Feb 5, 2012 2:26 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Awesome
I was pretty close on doing terrible. If Natal got finished in the third round I would’ve had like 30 or something.
It's okay.
My boy milk shat the bed and got a 10, so that was obv. our score that got cut, but apart from that, we should be moving closer to INEPT and first place.
"Computer being attacked by virus contracted from watching illegal japanese schoold girl porn. Bare with me." - Our Bovine Public
Captain of The Bus Feeders, Bloody Elbow Civil War, Season Two
you know your final score?
CPC killed it too
Quietly leading Cecil Peoples Champs to victory and beyond.
All in the game yo, all in the game
by Our Bovine Public on Feb 5, 2012 8:16 AM EST up reply actions
No, I don't, sorry man
I just know that four of us kicked ass.
"Computer being attacked by virus contracted from watching illegal japanese schoold girl porn. Bare with me." - Our Bovine Public
Captain of The Bus Feeders, Bloody Elbow Civil War, Season Two
We had 7 scores over 80. And only 2 below the camp average, 1 of which wont count
Quietly leading Cecil Peoples Champs to victory and beyond.
All in the game yo, all in the game
by Our Bovine Public on Feb 5, 2012 10:25 AM EST up reply actions
Holy hell.
Maybe I overestimate my team’s performance then. Me, Horselover, and two of my rooks were above 88.
"Computer being attacked by virus contracted from watching illegal japanese schoold girl porn. Bare with me." - Our Bovine Public
Captain of The Bus Feeders, Bloody Elbow Civil War, Season Two
I thought Diaz won
But I’ll only be upset if Diaz retires. Condit is a good fighter and I’ll continue to root for him, but I really hope Diaz keeps fighting. I would love to see him fight GSP one day.
Honestly I thought anyone who thinks Diaz won is crazy
But maybe peeps value cage control more than me?
BECW Season 2: INEPT
BECW Season 1 Champ: K-1 Level Predictions
by FightingFighting on Feb 5, 2012 2:46 AM EST up reply actions
In one exchange early in the fight Diaz got Condit against the cage for about four seconds
And hit him six times (which was pretty crazy). It was a good game plan, but lets not act like Diaz wasn’t landing hard, head snapping shots.
by discoandherpes on Feb 5, 2012 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
"throw right hand hard"
Truer words have never been spoken about Kos’ inability to diversify his striking and that range movement he was doing was illegal? his hands were open quite a few times.. should have been deducted a point IMO.
I am willing to test myself against the toughest fighters in the world, in front of hundreds of thousands or even millions of fans, over and over again. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, but I always come to fight. I've been doing this for the past fourteen years, and I have at least a few more strong years left in me. What have you done in the past fourteen years other than act like a moron on this forum and hang on Anderson's nuts? - Dan Henderson.
Yeah Herb should have deducted a point for that eye poke.
follow me on twitter @polyh3dron
by Rob Young on Feb 5, 2012 2:34 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Like a 4th of July party: The show was great until the grand finale ended up being dud.
I gotta say, though. Watching Roy take all those hits was like watching Homer Simpson box in that one episode.
"Today, a joke was murdered in cold blood" - Hendo_One-Shot
I just don't understand why
Josh won’t close his left hand and throw the damn jab. Your one-two shouldn’t consist of an eyepoke and a right hand.
I've been throwing spinning shit since 2008.
Ever since he knocked out Yoshida
he’s thought he was some amazing boxer.
love this
Quietly leading Cecil Peoples Champs to victory and beyond.
All in the game yo, all in the game
by Our Bovine Public on Feb 5, 2012 8:19 AM EST up reply actions
How bad was the Koscheck fight?
and the Barao fight? I missed both of those.
Any news on why Koscheck isn’t with AKA anymore? Fitch vs. Kos sounds good but I feel like it would just be a sloppy kickboxing match.
Barao outclassed Jorgensen, he was clearly better in every phase; the Koscheck fight wasn’t terrible, but wasn’t memorable either – lots of work along the cage, close striking exchanges, and a decision that probably could’ve gone either way.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 5, 2012 2:40 AM EST up reply actions
The Barao fight was okay
Jorgensen was outclassed, but he was tough and was trying to win till the end.
by discoandherpes on Feb 5, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
I'm kinda bummed we didn't get any type of new BE meme our of this clusterfuck
Greatest lover ever during the day, Trainyard Sleeper at night.
I dunno
I thought Nick asking Carlos “so we’re throwing spinning shit” during the fight was pretty awesome.
I've been throwing spinning shit since 2008.
not sure
but Carlos said it at the press conference. Nick asked him “so we’re throwing spinning shit now?” after a technique and Carlos said “yes we are”. lol
I've been throwing spinning shit since 2008.
lol yeah, loved him mentioning that and his response as well. Funny stuff.
by Empty Thoughts on Feb 5, 2012 3:15 AM EST up reply actions
Condit vs. Diaz was an awesome fight
Tired of reading comments saying it wasn’t what they expected.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
by SSreporters on Feb 5, 2012 2:46 AM EST reply actions 8 recs
Agreed
Carlos applied a nice gameplan. I wanted Nick to move the fight to the ground earlier but i didnt really see any openings. Carlos knows how to use the cage.
People are just mad there was no KO
thats literally the only reason they are bitching. Condit fought in a way that meant there was no KO, so they are pitching a fit about it.
"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts
by justsomehawkeyefan on Feb 5, 2012 5:14 AM EST up reply actions
He's always had great endurance.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 5, 2012 3:00 AM EST up reply actions
If Nick was pissed about how Carlos fought, what did he think GSP would do if they fought? GSP is well-coached and disciplined. He’d defuse Nick’s strengths and dictate where and how the fight took place, I’d guess, and Nick would bitch about that as well.
The early line at Bookmaker has GSP -315, Condit +225, if anyone’s looking to get down a bet before the lines change.
Melvin and I say: Please visit
http://danieljamesmillerfoundation.wordpress.com/how-to-donate/
Condit vs GSP is going to go one of two ways
pure legendary war with Condit winning by KO at some point or a slower match where GSP will win by points.
"Your spelling and grammar errors belie a seriously skilled thought process"- therealCatnuts
by justsomehawkeyefan on Feb 5, 2012 5:17 AM EST reply actions
SO, Couture should have
kept the fight standing so Toney could fight better? Carlos did what he had to do to win. YOU wouldn’t fight someone at their strength would you?
by Huggy Bear on Feb 5, 2012 6:58 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Couture would have beat the shit out of Toney standing
Couture’s dirty boxing would have lit Toney up.
by discoandherpes on Feb 5, 2012 11:01 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
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