Big Nog talks numbers, implies the system is against Brazilians
by Orcus on Feb 21, 2012 5:44 PM EST
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Americans have a rivalry with Brazilians, that is obvious. And why is that? It’s because the UFC has three hundred fighters under contract, and from those three hundred fighters we are fifty, the Brazilians are fifty, and we have more belts than they do. So from three hundred we are fifty, and with those fifty we get there and take care of business. They win (more) because they have more (people), they have a bigger infrastructure inside their gyms, they have support for the sport since they’re kids. But the sport is growing in Brazil and I believe that... they look at us with (malicious) eyes, let’s say it like that. If you’re going to fight an American in the US you have to win the fight with emphasis because otherwise… You can’t win it by a thin margin.
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I highly doubt any nationalism affects the judging outcome. I just think the judges suck in general.
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I think the judging problem is in the style, not the nationality.
Takedowns and positional control are still valued very highly in North American judging. And as we all know, the stereotypical American fighter is a wrestleboxer, whereas the stereotypical Brazilian fighter is the Muay Thai + BJJ prototype.
Fighters using that “Brazilian” style are more succeptible to being taken down and blanketed, because of their propensity to aggressively hunt for knockouts and submissions.
I think the Brazilians have it right, though- you should be trying to hurt the opponent, not just control them. To me, inflicting damage shows the utmost amount of control, because you needs a certain amount of control to be able to land hard strikes and lock in submissions.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 22, 2012 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
There are plenty of wrestle boxer Brazilians though
by discoandherpes on Feb 22, 2012 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
Like who?
I just combed through the consensus rankings and failed to find 1 Brazilian that fits the bill of a wrestle- boxer.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 22, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
Nobody really at the top level save for a few
But there are guys that have a very wrestling focused attack who primarily practice jiu jitsu. A guy like Paul Harris for example has great submissions, but he very much has a wrestling based attack combined with a boxing heavy striking attack (strong double legs with very focuses tight punches). Tibau is a bit similar in this regard. Hell, Vitor Belfort is a guy who can be considered a wrestle-boxer, or maybe more accurately a boxer-wrestler. Vitor is not great off of his back my any means.
At the same time I’m probably using the term wrestle-boxer loosely. I’m not so hung up on someones specific art. For example I don’t believe that wrestling is inherently superior to judo or bjj is inherently superior to sambo, ect. When there are so many different styles within a particular art, it’s almost impossible to say where one ends and another begins. There are plenty off bjj guys who operate like wrestlers as far as their fight philosophy goes.
by discoandherpes on Feb 22, 2012 3:24 AM EST up reply actions
Tibau is the closest.
Vitor definitely isn’t a wrestle- boxer, his skillset is mainly comprised of boxing and BJJ techniques. No way is Palhares a wrestle- boxer either, his striking is definitely more Muay Thai (he’s been throwing ALOT of round kicks lately) and BJJ.
I’m not hung up on the arts either, I was just kind of speaking generally. It’s hard to argue that the typical Brazilian fighter focuses on aggressive 8- point striking and submissions, whereas many American fighters (particularly those with wrestling backgrounds) fit into the wrestle- boxer mold.
Of course, the best fighters are well rounded (the best Brazilians have generally developed strong wrestling, the best American wrestlers have rounded out their striking and worked on submissions, etc). But just going by the current judging pitfalls of rewarding takedowns and top control just for their own sake, it’s unsurprising that “Brazilian” style fighters might lose decisions to “American” style fighters.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 22, 2012 3:47 AM EST up reply actions
Paul Harris' main offense on the feet is his boxing though
Vitor does make use of bjj techniques, but he’s most effective when he is using defensive wrestling to stay on the feet and going for takedowns to score points instead of going for weak sauce armbars.
by discoandherpes on Feb 22, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree about Palhares' main striking weapon being his hands.
His kicks are his best tool by far. His only knockdown in the UFC (probably ever) is by head kick, and the thing that impressed me most about his striking improvements lately have been his low kicks. He was whooping up on Miller and Massenzio (for the brief period of time that fight was contested on the feet) with low kicks.
Paul Harris fights like his main goal in life is to destroy his opponent’s legs.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 22, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Ronny Markes.
Renan Barao used to be all about the takedowns and the ground and pound as well, since he signed with Zuffa though he prefers to stand up.
Barao has always been an aggressive Muay Thai style striker, and a submission specialist.
Guy is very well rounded, and will work to win the fight in whatever works best.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 22, 2012 3:48 AM EST up reply actions
I've watched ALOT of Barao's fights.
Sure- he aggressively pursues takedowns and top control in his fights. But he also hunts for the knockout constantly, throwing flying knees, high kicks, power punches, etc.
The guy is very well rounded, and it would be completely inaccurate to call him a wrestleboxer.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 22, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Despite the obnoxious “U S A, U S A, U S A!!”! chants, as an American MMA fan, I never pulled for a fighter based off of their nationality. It really just doesn’t make sense to me because the fighters aren’t necessarily representing thier countries (e.g. the olympics) but represtenting thier camps and their particular style.
Also:
they have support for the sport since they’re kidsI’m not sure what that’s referring to. MMA? Other martial arts or wrestling?
Probably wrestling
The USA have an amateur infra structure for sports in general.
In Brazil is all about soccer and little else.
Be careful, my opponents - Junior "Cigano" dos Santos
He means in the US there are sports programs after school, wrestling for instance, bjj and muay thai are not taught in public schools in Brazil
I call you, I talk to me - Anderson Silva
by Orcus on Feb 21, 2012 6:13 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I wouldn't say "widely popular"
I live in São Paulo, Brazil largest city. And yes, I can get to numerous gyms around my area by foot and they all teach boxing, BJJ and Muay Thai for something around US$50.00. That’s probably why Brazil has so many good fighters, the ready avaibility of gyms at a resoanal price.
But after learning the skills, it’s a mighty task to break into the UFC or any other large promotion in the US.
Look at Formiga, still fighting for peanuts. Look at Glover Teixeira. Or any other brazilian UFC fighter’s history before coming to the US.
Be careful, my opponents - Junior "Cigano" dos Santos
"avaiability" and "reasonable"
Sorry for the mistakes
Be careful, my opponents - Junior "Cigano" dos Santos
Teixeira's issue with the UFC is a green card
If he had his papers sorted out he would be in the UFC tomorrow. Also, as long as Formega doesn’t loss in embarrassing fashion, he is going to be in the UFC by the beginning of next year. .
by discoandherpes on Feb 21, 2012 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
I've always been curious
How green card issues have kept Teixeira out of the UFC when he’s been BJJ trainer at the Pit (presumably he’s employed as such) and fought 9 times in the US between 02 and 08.
"You know, these guys want to talk about God. 'Oh, I want to thank God. I want to thank God.' Listen, I'm a God-fearing man, go to church every Sunday and have since I was a boy. But if I ever found out that God cared one way or another about a borderline illegal fist-fight on Saturday night, I would be so greatly disappointed that it would make rethink my entire belief system." ~ Chael Sonnen.
With wrestling programs getting cut left and right
That is becoming less and less of an argument.
by discoandherpes on Feb 21, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not an argument, it’s what he meant. And if what you say is true, that’s a damn shame…
I call you, I talk to me - Anderson Silva
by Orcus on Feb 21, 2012 7:16 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
It's not getting to crisis mode or anything
But it is somewhat of a concerning thing. Even though you have kids getting into wrestling with the intent of learning skills to transition to MMA, you also have schools cutting wrestling programs because other athletic programs are more profitable.
by discoandherpes on Feb 21, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
Title IX and the Law of Unintended Consequences.......
"The President has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the President?" -Anonymous
by Forbidden Psychological Technology on Feb 21, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions
Highly deluded
There is no bias toward US fighters in the US.
Nate (after a spinning elbow by Carlos at 1:58): Fuckin’ dick!
I think the scoring criteria in effect is heavily biased towards wrestlers
who only attempt to pin their opponents and not finish them. There is no “anti-Brazilian” bias.
I don’t even think the bias is intentional. Its just really easy to see when someone got a takedown, or is pinning his opponent to the cage. If a TD becomes MMA’s version of a knockdown in Boxing, then MMA fights are alot easier to judge. That’s why I think the judging criteria is wrestling biased. It makes the judges jobs alot easier.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Feb 21, 2012 5:57 PM EST reply actions
Dang. More nonsense from Nog.
He’ll always have a special place in my heart for his incredible performances, but come on, this is getting ridiculous.
What specific Brazilian fighters have been wronged by bad scorecards? If anything, I think Asian fighters have a stronger argument to make (Phan, Fukuda, Omigawa off the top of my head). That’s got to be a higher percentage due to there being like 10 Asians across all weight classes.
"The President has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the President?" -Anonymous
by Forbidden Psychological Technology on Feb 21, 2012 6:11 PM EST reply actions
He didn't say anything about scorecards
He’s talking about brazilian prospects that got cut after few losses or bad fights, while a guy like Matt Brown keeps fighting for the UFC.
Be careful, my opponents - Junior "Cigano" dos Santos
Then what is this about?
If you’re going to fight an American in the US you have to win the fight with emphasis because otherwise… You can’t win it by a thin margin
American fighters get cut after multiple losses too. You think Volkmann is safe if he goes 0-2? His style is boring and his attitude is wince-inducing. He’ll be cut, just like Antonio McKee (0-1), James Toney (0-1), Todd Duffee (1-1) and plenty of others.
Nog thinks that “someone” in the UFC is out to get Brazilian fighters. And I don’t see a single thing to support that paranoia.
"The President has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the President?" -Anonymous
by Forbidden Psychological Technology on Feb 21, 2012 6:34 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't say the UFC has an "anti-brazilian" bias
Dana White always said Anderson Silva is the greatest fighter in history.
At the same time, look at the face Dana made after Cigano finished Cain Velasquez. Why he did that? Because Cain was easier to market. Cain was easier to sell to (mexican) american audiences.
That’s the problem I think Nog is trying to adress. The fact that brazilians have so much more issues to solve before breaking into the UFC. And after that, the UFC will, in most cases, rather an american fighter winning than a brazilian. Because american are easier to market.
Be careful, my opponents - Junior "Cigano" dos Santos
You're absolutely right. Navigating the visa process, the language barrier, training limitations and everything else is hard.
Not a single one of those things, however, is the UFC’s responsibility to bear. I believe it’s in their best interest to start taking scouting and prospect building much more seriously than they have, but that’s a business recommendation, not a lapse in appropriate behavior.
And I imagine that Dana White’s ire was partially based around his desire to market the more-accessible Cain over JDS. However, I’m pretty sure Dana White was also more interested in continuing to have Brock Lesnar his HW champion for about 10 years at 3 fights a year, 1 million + buys a pop. Does that mean the UFC has a bias against all non-pro wrestlers too?
"The President has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the President?" -Anonymous
by Forbidden Psychological Technology on Feb 21, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
Yes i agree look at the BIG mistake of Joe Rogan
When after the Lesnar-Overeem fight he accidentally named Junior Cain Velasquez LOL.
Besides let me tell you the racism is higher in Brazil itself and the only place which this is not that much regarded is the world of sports.
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What specific Brazilian fighters have been wronged by bad scorecards?
Shogun vs. Hendo?
"You know, these guys want to talk about God. 'Oh, I want to thank God. I want to thank God.' Listen, I'm a God-fearing man, go to church every Sunday and have since I was a boy. But if I ever found out that God cared one way or another about a borderline illegal fist-fight on Saturday night, I would be so greatly disappointed that it would make rethink my entire belief system." ~ Chael Sonnen.
And with that I counter: Brillz vs Little Nog.
Fuck you, double fingers
- Nick Diaz
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society
- Mark Twain
by TheLastEmpress on Feb 21, 2012 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
That was the right scorecard
THE AVENGERS - MAY 4th
PROMETHEUS - JUNE 8th
THE DARK KNIGHT RISES - JULY 20th
by Chris Groves on Feb 21, 2012 10:37 PM EST up reply actions
Shogun vs. Machida I.
Wait, that’s just Brazilian on Brazilian bad judging. Whoops
Firm supporter of performance enhancing facial hair - see Fitch v. Hendricks.
"I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault." - Jack Tatum
Based on the things he says all the time, I gotta say,
Nog is kind of an idiot.
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Winter is coming.
by RolloTomasi on Feb 21, 2012 6:32 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
You don't actually think there is some validity to what he is saying?
Or that it at least makes some sense?
Perhaps he’s a bit of a simple fellow but I don’t think he’s an idiot.
And please remind me when was the last time you were on the inside of an athletic commission meeting? Aside from assuming in good faith that things are on the up and up, we have no way of knowing if they are or not….
Also, bribes are the way business is done in many many countries. If that is the way things are done in Brazil, it would be expected that Big Nog felt this way.
Also part two, think of his experiences in Pride. That shit was fixed on occasion. Why would he think that the American UFC version was any different?
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It's not just this
he has a history of saying stupid/ignorant things.
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Winter is coming.
he's not an idiot
he just says a lot of idiotic things
follow me on twitter @polyh3dron
Anyone remember,
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by Sugel Mendoza on Feb 21, 2012 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
Without any specifics, it's just vague, somewhat stupid accusations.
Maybe the AC’s have a real anti-Brazil agenda. I’ve never seen anything to suggest that, but I’d consider it if examples were actually presented. Which fighters have been victims of this perceived agenda? Names?
Attributing practices in one country to another is the kind of lazy broad-brush thinking Americans get criticized for (and they deserve it). So I’m not going to give him a pass if that’s his thought process, especially when he presents zero evidence or possible examples.
"The President has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the President?" -Anonymous
by Forbidden Psychological Technology on Feb 21, 2012 6:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nog isn't an idiot
He is fairly delusional though if something isn’t lost in translation.
by discoandherpes on Feb 21, 2012 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
Brazilians do have some disadvantages
But not for the reasons Nog advances here. Brazilian fighters are paid less than equivalently ranked Americans, for example. The underrepresentation of Brazilian fighters is more about the UFC’s underdeveloped scouting system, especially globally, than any sort of hiring bias. As far as judging is concerned, I highly doubt it.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
If you’re going to fight an American in the US you have to win the fight with emphasis because otherwise… You can’t win it by a thin margin
Myth
Busted
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Winter is coming.
by RolloTomasi on Feb 21, 2012 6:44 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
I'm an american, or rather, a USA-er...and I never root for or against based on race or nationality
That’s just how it is. Overeem, Jones, and Silva are among my favorite fighters right now.
Hell, out of the current champions, there is one white-american(I’m assuming Cruz is hispance or something at least in part), that’s Frankie Edgar…and I really am not much of a fan of that guy.
THE AVENGERS - MAY 4th
PROMETHEUS - JUNE 8th
THE DARK KNIGHT RISES - July 20th
Frankie is an italo-american
Be careful, my opponents - Junior "Cigano" dos Santos
Fair enough
I mean…when you start to bring in ethnicity AND nationality…it gets tricky.
Cain Velasquez and Dominick Cruz, nationally, are american…but ethnically people would beg to differ.
So yeah, I don’t know, I give up…I’m a fan of the fighters, not their race or the flag they have.
THE AVENGERS - MAY 4th
PROMETHEUS - JUNE 8th
THE DARK KNIGHT RISES - July 20th
by Chris Groves on Feb 21, 2012 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
Lets be real
Cruz and Edgar are American.
by discoandherpes on Feb 22, 2012 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
If that's the case i think all caucasians should be considered "something-americans".
They practically just got there…
This is like when white dudes complain about affirmative action and "equal opportunity"
follow me on twitter @polyh3dron
Oh, come on
That’s not like that at all.
Why Anderson Silva never sold PPV like, say, Randy Couture, even though he has the greatest highlight heel in the history of the sport?
Be careful, my opponents - Junior "Cigano" dos Santos
Couture has had more classic moments in the Octagon
Upsetting Chuck Liddell, upsetting Tim Sylvia, upsetting Vitor Belfort, ect. He also speaks English, while Anderson refuses to.
That’s a lame argument, because Randy Couture will never be bigger in Brazil compared to Anderson Silva.
by discoandherpes on Feb 21, 2012 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
At least partially
Because he’s had next to no interest in marketing himself in the US.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 21, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
Frankly, his refusal to speak English is a giant limitation.
If I can’t understand you, I can’t make the same sort of connection I do with every other celebrity or public figure I follow. I’m a huge fan of Anderson Silva because I’m a (relative) hardcore fan and have followed him closely for years. Casuals have his highlight reel to follow, but they’ll gravitate to a Chael Sonnen promo or interview because it’s readily accessible without any kind of effort to know the sport or the individual. It’s convenient, that’s why it’s so important.
"The President has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the President?" -Anonymous
by Forbidden Psychological Technology on Feb 21, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
So, that's what Nog is trying to say
The brazilian fighters have to deal with so much more shit before coming to the US, and have to learn a new language (that is very hard for us, trust me on this) to be treated as equals.
Even though they put up their best performances inside the octagon.
Be careful, my opponents - Junior "Cigano" dos Santos
No one is stopping Brazilians from being in the UFC or having success in the UFC
As far as the topic goes, nothing Noguiera said was right.
by discoandherpes on Feb 21, 2012 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
He is saying is harder
Ande it is
Be careful, my opponents - Junior "Cigano" dos Santos
Rugby is the second-most popular sport in the world and is virtually non-existent in the U.S.
If an American desires to be a world-class rugby player, he’s going to be paying his own way while most likely holding down a full-time job. And that’s with the knowledge (and acceptance) that he’s guaranteed to transplant to a new country with a new culture and probably a new language. All of this is if he’s even picked up, which is very unlikely.
It’s the reality of the sport. If you want to pursue it, that’s your choice and the best of luck to you. But it’s your choice, so accept everything that goes with it.
"The President has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the President?" -Anonymous
by Forbidden Psychological Technology on Feb 21, 2012 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
I read it a bunch of times
And I don’t see anything about him saying that it is harder to get into the UFC.
Also, he does have a point that America has better gyms, but that isn’t our fault we have the best fight camps in the world.
by discoandherpes on Feb 21, 2012 7:24 PM EST up reply actions
It's not just not speaking English
But also the tendency to completely ignore any post fight interview question and talk about whatever the hell they feel like at that moment.
Here’s Joe: So, when that punch by [insert fighter name here] landed, you seem rocked, but you came back to win. How were you feeling right then when you launched that last flurry? <>
Here’s Brazilian Fighter: I’d like to thank my trainers, and the lord Jesus Christ, and I felt good before the fight but I hurt my toe during the weigh ins but I fought anyways. Thanks to my gym. I love fighting.
le sigh.
Obligato
I thought Lay N Pray was a stupid insult until I watched Tyron Woodley fight.
by DankNabbot on Feb 21, 2012 9:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
but I hurt my toe during the weigh ins but I fought anyways. Thanks to my gym. I love fighting.
You funny!
--------
"I still think I can win my title back, and I still think I can even win it back from Jon Jones" . . . Rampage before UFC 144
"When I watched it, it's like I became a fan of myself, too" - Frankie Edgar on UFC 136
by VeeisAnimated on Feb 22, 2012 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Nog is wrong about all sorts of stuff
One, there are three Brazilian champions and three American champions.
Two, If Americans have a rivalry with Brazilians, I don’t think we noticed. The whole world cheered when Nog beat Schaubs face in, not just Brazil.
Third, your own brother got a close decision against Brillz. To say that there is a bias against Brazilians is silly.
Fourth point, Brazil supports the grown of young MMA fighters far more than America. In Brazil you hear about poor men becoming fighters and getting trained in boxing and jiu jitsu. In America, if you can’t afford training, good luck trying to get someone to take a chance on you and letting you train for free.
And lastly, Brazilians boo American fighters are worst than Americans boo the Brazilians. You might hear a USA chant every now and then, but that’s about it.
Good points there. Fully agree with all of it except maybe number four which I don’t have any clear opinion on.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight, what you saw, in the ring."
by Horselover Fat on Feb 21, 2012 7:10 PM EST up reply actions
Technically there are four American champions, with Condit winning the interim belt. But you guys are overlooking what nog is talking about, he’s talking about the commissions and not the fans (I’m not defending it, just clarifying it). As far as programs for poor kids, you can’t equate that to after school programs in the US, it’s not even comparable. The percentage of poor kids thats gets opportunities for those types of programs is very small.
I call you, I talk to me - Anderson Silva
by Orcus on Feb 21, 2012 7:30 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
What is the regional MMA scene like in Brazil?
There are a few Brazilian fighters on SBN, and it seems that there is a very good developing scene. While the sheer amount of money involved in MMA in the US will keep it here for the forseeable future, there is nothing stopping a good entrepeneur from creating a “BAMMA” type feeder league for the UFC.
Could it work? Is it already happening?
I think that as more money is brough to the table, you will see more opportunity for Brazilian fighters. TUF Brazill is a great first step for building real ties to Brazil for the UFC.
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
Please copy this sig if you agree.
Oh yeah, I have to be honest, I don’t share there same sentiments with nog, I understand why there are more American fighters than there are Brazilians, the bigger ppv market is in the US. And the ufc is investing a lot on Brazil as of right now too. The only thing that I agree with nog is that we don’t have many fighters yet we hold a lot of belts, which shows strength. But aside from that I don’t agree with anything. We do have great feeder promotions currently though, such as jungle fight
I call you, I talk to me - Anderson Silva
by Orcus on Feb 21, 2012 7:43 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
I hear Jungle Fight discussed a lot, are there any other "bigger" promotions?
It seems like Bitetti has kind of fizzled and I’m at a loss to name another one.
Need to start listening to Jordan Breen more.
"The President has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the President?" -Anonymous
by Forbidden Psychological Technology on Feb 21, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, bitetti is MIA, not sure what’s up with them. Jungle fight is the only Brazilian promotion I watch, but there are many others, wocs, shooto, Amazon fight, the list goes on. But I only watch jungle fight and the ufc, otherwise it will get in the way of my football, there are practically fights every weekend.
I call you, I talk to me - Anderson Silva
by Orcus on Feb 21, 2012 8:02 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
Any way to catch Jungle Fights in the States? PPV?
--------
"I still think I can win my title back, and I still think I can even win it back from Jon Jones" . . . Rampage before UFC 144
"When I watched it, it's like I became a fan of myself, too" - Frankie Edgar on UFC 136
by VeeisAnimated on Feb 22, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
I think I heard ESPN Deportes broadcasts it
not sure though
I call you, I talk to me - Anderson Silva
They did the last one. Not sure if they’ll continue to do so in the future.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 23, 2012 1:31 AM EST up reply actions
So it is only a matter of time then.
Mania is not quite Mania without Dakatak. Come back soon, Dak.
Please copy this sig if you agree.
...
Ahoy-hoy.
Filipino Reccing Machines BECW Roster;
Piston Hyundai, -Neil-, HurricaneHeron, sday420, Fedorable, mlzybaby, LYHL, DreamingOfFighting, MJB!, KNOWLEDGE, and me.
I don't need anger management. I need people to stop pissing me off.
The one racial/ethnic/nationality bias is see in the US
is against Asian fighters.
Its seems like they have to kill someone to win a decision sometimes.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
To be fair
The Japanese get robbed of decisions in Japan as well.
by discoandherpes on Feb 22, 2012 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
Everyone gets robbed in Japan.
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Winter is coming.
by RolloTomasi on Feb 22, 2012 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
Except two fighters
Musashi and Masato :)
Follow me on Twitter: @szanpan
BE Civil War 2 Team: krcambell
"Maybe I m high.. maybe I'm not... maybe fuck you? Nick Diaz"
this.
Kawajiri/Melendez 1 especially.
follow me on twitter @polyh3dron
And don't forget..
Omigawa vs Elkins. I’ve rewatched that fight and I just can’t see how Elkins wins it. I mean it wasn’t necessarily like Omigawa straight dominated him and it went the other way, but I still felt it was pretty clear he walked away from that.
Oh-my-god-what bad judging.
Firm supporter of performance enhancing facial hair - see Fitch v. Hendricks.
"I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault." - Jack Tatum
Was that a pun?
Fuck you, double fingers
- Nick Diaz
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society
- Mark Twain
by TheLastEmpress on Feb 22, 2012 10:03 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
When are the Brazilians finally gonna catch a break in the fight game?
Nog caught a break
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Winter is coming.
by RolloTomasi on Feb 22, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Is He out of his Fucking Mind?
His first fight in the UFC against Heath Herring was a decision in America. His next decision was Couture in Portland (a fight I was at). His lil brother? Arguably robbed the American Brilz in Las Vegas. Aldo decisioned Florian in Texas, the most ‘Murica of all US of A Sates. Alves decisioned Koscheck in the America’s, John Howard in Canada, Anderson Silva danced with Thales Leites to a decision (though a Brazilian HAD to win there), Machida reeled off 5 decisions in a row in America, and Barao just recently decisioned Escovedo and Jorgenson in Sin City. These were all just off the top of my head within the last 60 seconds, so if I could dig deeper it would prove how only how much more full of shit this comment really is. i love Nog and all, but he makes some really dumb shit comments sometimes I think.
I piss hot
Mom, mom, mom, mommy, mommy, Lois, Lois, Lois, Mom....WHAT!!!!! "Hi, eh he he he he!!!!!"
by Sir Jacob of Ortingham on Feb 21, 2012 11:40 PM EST reply actions
Nog said a Brazilian had to win with "emphasis",
implying that Brazilians can only win with a big finish, or a hilarious mismatch, and they end up getting fucked with close decisions. Although I’m not saying I agree, because as you cited with the Little Nog-Brilz fight, Brazilians seem to get an amount of right & wrong calls that appears proportional with everybody else. That said, Nog seems to have taken one too many punches to the noodle.
Ahoy-hoy.
Filipino Reccing Machines BECW Roster;
Piston Hyundai, -Neil-, HurricaneHeron, sday420, Fedorable, mlzybaby, LYHL, DreamingOfFighting, MJB!, KNOWLEDGE, and me.
I don't need anger management. I need people to stop pissing me off.
Holy shit, all that, and I fuck myself with a reply fail.
I meant to reply to Sir Jacob.
Ahoy-hoy.
Filipino Reccing Machines BECW Roster;
Piston Hyundai, -Neil-, HurricaneHeron, sday420, Fedorable, mlzybaby, LYHL, DreamingOfFighting, MJB!, KNOWLEDGE, and me.
I don't need anger management. I need people to stop pissing me off.
by Sugel Mendoza on Feb 22, 2012 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
yea I don’t think they’re treated any differently than any other race in MMA. call me ignorant but I just don’t see much racism in MMA and that is a wonderful thing
I piss hot
Mom, mom, mom, mommy, mommy, Lois, Lois, Lois, Mom....WHAT!!!!! "Hi, eh he he he he!!!!!"
by Sir Jacob of Ortingham on Feb 22, 2012 1:34 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think so.
I’m not american,but I don’t think anyone roots for a fighter depending on their nationality.I’m neither american,brazilian,japanese or russian,but I love fighters from all those countries.I don’t think nationality has anything to do with judges decisions,IMO.
An interesting take..
but I think people do gravitate towards supporting fighters of their own nationality, generally just because it’s easier to understand them in interviews, to know where they’re from and draw a connection there, or just because they may look more like us.
THAT SAID, it also works in the exact opposite direction as well. People like the mysterious and the unfamiliar. When BJJ broke onto the scene, it turned heads. I don’t remember hearing any blatant, outright racism against the Gracies in the early days, though I’m sure it’s there if you dig hard enough, but I think what the majority of people pulled from the early fights was “Whoa, this little dude is going to break off your limbs if you let him” and people were hooked on the efficacy of BJJ. See: the spread of BJJ domestically. I’m sure there was resistance somewhere, but there were also scads of people looking to learn.
Granted, I can agree that judges and commissions which were only previously regulating boxing or perhaps even wrestling could be biased against a martial art they’d never seen, but I’d chalk that up more under ignorance than xenophobia. You know punches, those score points. You know takedowns and top control, that scores points as well. Someone tries to pull off an omoplata and you’ve never even seen it before? How do you quantify how ‘effective’ a close submission was if you really don’t even know what you’re looking at?
Firm supporter of performance enhancing facial hair - see Fitch v. Hendricks.
"I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault." - Jack Tatum
I will say if I'm on the fence and don't feel passionately about either fighter
I’ll root for the American on occasion just because he’s American. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that though.
Judging comments aside, I think everything else is very provocative:
the UFC has three hundred fighters under contract, and from those three hundred fighters we are fifty, the Brazilians are fifty, and we have more belts than they do. So from three hundred we are fifty, and with those fifty we get there and take care of business. They win (more) because they have more (people), they have a bigger infrastructure inside their gyms, they have support for the sport since they’re kids.
It’s a very interesting point that is seldom raised about the inherent privilege of being American/living and fighting in America.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
And he can come here and earn hundreds of thousands of dollars for fighting and go home and live like a king
If we didn’t have such a diversified field of sports he’d be fucked because nobody would be watching MMA because it wouldn’t be on TV.
Menckenstein:
(noun)
Definition: a traditional doll crafted from the stomach hair of obese, unkempt, typically diabetic men who suck at fighting. This type of doll is commonly crafted in the deep South and seems to be exclusively purchased by fans of the NBA franchise the LA Lakers, who believe the dolls give them the power to be as cool as Celtics fans.
Daniel James Miller Foundation - Please donate, every penny helps.
by menckenstein on Feb 22, 2012 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
There are always exceptions.
He points out the fifty or so exceptions who have been given opportunities to benefit in the UFC. I don’t know what the point of your second statement was.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
My second point was that he's benefitting from this "unfair advantage" of American kids having sports/martial arts in school or nearby school.
If there wasn’t this incredible diversity in amateur sports in the US then there likely wouldn’t be a UFC for him to make a living in.
Menckenstein:
(noun)
Definition: a traditional doll crafted from the stomach hair of obese, unkempt, typically diabetic men who suck at fighting. This type of doll is commonly crafted in the deep South and seems to be exclusively purchased by fans of the NBA franchise the LA Lakers, who believe the dolls give them the power to be as cool as Celtics fans.
Daniel James Miller Foundation - Please donate, every penny helps.
by menckenstein on Feb 22, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think anyone can reasonably deny that being American is a privilege.
I’m not thinking about having these like wrestling growing up. I’m thinking about having greater access to gyms and education, higher quality gyms, more developed scouting, low poverty rate, higher wages etc.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
Clearly you're a step ahead of our beloved cyclopean bus feeder.
Menckenstein:
(noun)
Definition: a traditional doll crafted from the stomach hair of obese, unkempt, typically diabetic men who suck at fighting. This type of doll is commonly crafted in the deep South and seems to be exclusively purchased by fans of the NBA franchise the LA Lakers, who believe the dolls give them the power to be as cool as Celtics fans.
Daniel James Miller Foundation - Please donate, every penny helps.
by menckenstein on Feb 22, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
I wonder if the "system" favors
- Frank Mir’s striking (see Nog’s 1st fight?)
- Frank Mir’s BRAZILIAN jiu-jitsu (see Nog’s 2nd fight against Mir)
- or does the system have something against Nog’s bad back, knees, or hips?
What’s up Noguiera? What’s up?
Interesting comments, I’m surprised.
--------
"I still think I can win my title back, and I still think I can even win it back from Jon Jones" . . . Rampage before UFC 144
"When I watched it, it's like I became a fan of myself, too" - Frankie Edgar on UFC 136
I don't think he's really talking about himself here.
He’s talking about judging trends… and where he sees nationalist bias as the cause, I see the tendency to heavily value listless takedowns and uneventful top control as the root of the problem.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 22, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Nah, Nog...disagree
Perception is reality though, and that perception has helped Brazilians excel in the sport. I say keep that chip on your shoulder. Nog is the most respected, loved and tenured Brazilian, and he looks like the head Namekian from DBZ, speak you’re mind big homie.
Police have mounted a Phuket-wide hunt
more like 2nd form Cell to me
follow me on twitter @polyh3dron
I guess the fighter bashing rule isn't enforced here anymore
le sigh
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Feb 22, 2012 3:28 PM EST reply actions
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