Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: UFC 146 Results: Junior dos Santos TKO's Frank Mir

Out-Striking Frankie Edgar

Hey chaps, just a little breakdown of the strengths and weaknesses of Frankie Edgar's much discussed stand up. Hope it brings something new to the table and that you don't mind clicking the link to HKL if you enjoy it.

Cheers, Jack


Floyd Patterson, former heavyweight boxing champion of the world, decreed that to win in boxing all that is required is speed; speed of hands to win exchanges, and speed of foot to dictate when they take place. Frankie Edgar has both of these qualities and as the UFC lightweight division's "Cinderella man" upset BJ Penn twice before having two back and forth matches with the gigantic wrestler, Gray Maynard. Frankie Edgar is always entertaining to watch, but he is never going to be a big draw such as Anderson Silva or his predecessor, BJ Penn were - he is neither a submission finisher or a knockout artist. What is unique about Edgar, however, is his method of taking apart lightweights - exploiting the same lack of striking confidence and experience in the lightweight division that Bantamweight champion, Dominick Cruz does in his own weightclass: a lack of ability to deal with lateral movement. Is it possible for Benson Henderson to out-strike Edgar? Of course. Will he actually out-strike Edgar? That remains to be seen, but the opportunities do exist to pick Edgar apart, it is whether Henderson's coaches have noticed this and whether he can focus when he is face to face with Edgar's perpetual motion style.

To understand how one might beat Edgar on the feet it is important to note his greatest successes and the times which he has shown weaknesses. In looking at Edgar's fight tape and record, nothing stands out more than his defeat of then number one lightweight in the world, BJ Penn. Penn was touted as a phenomenal boxer with a counter jab that jacked his opponent's head back, slick counter-punches and power which is rarely seen at lightweight. What Edgar exposed in Penn, however, was an inability to deal with lateral movement. Just as Nick Diaz does, Penn often stands in a boxing stance with his front foot turned in to maximize the reach on his dipping counter jab. This does, however mean that circling to the outside of this foot makes it hard for him to set up his punches and exposes the back of his leg for low kicks and his jaw for right hand leads. This circling is Edgar's modus operandi, and against Penn - whose dipping jab and emphasis on head movement is tailor made for inexperienced opponents who are willing to run straight at him, hoping to overwhelm him with combinations - it worked a treat. The fact that he kept having to turn and face Frankie meant that he was often unprepared from Frankie's own charging combinations.


Edgar's weakest showings on the feet have been his slow starts against Gray Maynard. Though traditionally not a big finisher (his only notable KO coming over himself), Maynard caught Frankie hard in the opening rounds of both of their title fights. In the first of these two title fights, at UFC 125, Edgar was caught with a slapping left hook, which did not carry a full rotation of Maynard's hips, but caught Edgar so off guard that it was enough to send him stumbling backward and almost cost him his hard earned UFC title. In watching this knockdown, Frankie is circling away from Maynard's left hand, then pauses as if he is ready to circle back the other way, in traditional Edgar fashion - unfortunately his right hand is down by his chest when he intends to change direction so he meets the full force of the left hook while leaning into it.

Edgar's habit of dropping his hands as he circles is a bad one, and while Penn was inadequate at chasing him, instead trying to bait him in, Maynard's aggressive pressure in the first rounds of both of their fights put him in position to punch into the space into which Edgar was moving. Circling into the left hook without adequate protection has produced some fantastic knockouts in the past, despite the hook lacking power it is hard to see coming and much of the force is provided by the opponent's movement into it. Here is Mitsuhiro Ishida, whose chin is fairly solid, circling into a short left hand of Hirota (the arm which Aoki went on to savagely break). Notice how Ishida is almost immediately out cold, and that the hole through which Hirota's punch entered was not especially large - Ishida could still be seen to have his hands up, but still lacked protection.

Continue reading this post »

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

Comment 40 comments  |  19 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

Cut Jack some slack, man, HKL is our striking-obsessed cousin. It’s not like he’s hyping his own blog.

I'd rather be trollin'.

by thirdparty on Feb 18, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Just realized I should’ve said “mac” instead of “man”, but oh well.

I'd rather be trollin'.

by thirdparty on Feb 18, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it's kinda cheap too,

and never did that during my brief time at HKL, but for me, this topic is too interesting NOT to click on.

There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?

by ElliotMatheny on Feb 18, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I think it's a good place for up and coming writers to cut their teeth.

You’re good people JS. I’d be down for you writing feature pieces on BE, your striking analysis is rock solid

There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?

by ElliotMatheny on Feb 18, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, it's important to stay as neutral and objective as possible.

I will sometimes say which way I’m leaning, but I won’t ever pretend that I know what will happen in that cage.

There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?

by ElliotMatheny on Feb 18, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

If true, it's sad and I'm a guilty party.

There’s great quality posts at HKL, and many of the writers are long-time BE community members. I should make it a more regular read.

by Sabate on Feb 18, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Winter is coming.

by RolloTomasi on Feb 19, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

..

I think 3/4 of my replies are attached to my own posts that were initially mean to reply to someone else. I fail. In response to Rob <3.

Firm supporter of performance enhancing facial hair - see Fitch v. Hendricks.

by Fistbeard on Feb 18, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok, for real now - Mobile rec'd

I actually had a minute to read the full article and it’s beautiful. Perfect gifs and the breakdown is some of the cleanest analysis I’ve seen. Great job man – I’m taking notes.

Firm supporter of performance enhancing facial hair - see Fitch v. Hendricks.

by Fistbeard on Feb 18, 2012 3:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

The way Edgar fights reminds me of a Game of Thrones quote

Jon Snow is teaching swordplay to his fellow Black Brothers, Gendry and Pyp. Gendry is strong and lumering, so Jon has no trouble moving around him and overwhelming him; Pyp is lanky and fast, and Jon says “Pyp, you move so much, all I have to do is hold my sword out in front of me to cut you.”

I think it’s similar with Edgar. While it’s true that a moving is harder to hit than a stationary one, it’s a fine balance. Like you said, Jack- one only needs to observe his tendencies, and be able to strike where he’s going to be; round kicks are absolutely a good option for this, and Bendo is a strong kicker, although I’m not sure if that will be enough.

IMO, Bendo’s best shot is on the inside. He’s big & strong, uses his weight well to pin opponents to the fence, and he has developed some very sharp knees, elbows, and dirty boxing. What Bendo needs to be able to do is press Frankie, cut off his angles, and get the fight to the cage, where his size will make the biggest difference.

There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?

by ElliotMatheny on Feb 18, 2012 1:14 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

What Bendo needs to be able to do is press Frankie, cut off his angles, and get the fight to the cage, where his size will make the biggest difference.

I agree but I don’t think he’ll be able to do that. Bendo will be punching a lot of air and won’t be able get on the inside let alone take him down. Bendo is much stronger but once again, speed and footwork will win the day. Frankie’s precision striking and head movement is gonna frustrate Bendo to a unanimous victory. Edgar has a lot of cards in his hand but he doesn’t have the power to knock him out, unless Henderson gets really tired from chasing him around and makes a big mistake.

A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. - Herm Albright

by Yan117 on Feb 18, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, Bendo's footwork isn't that developed yet.

There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?

by ElliotMatheny on Feb 18, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Dude's younger and plenty hungry.

Besides, is his striking that much worse than Maynard’s?

I can see bendo having some success on the feet.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Feb 18, 2012 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Gray's hands are vastly better than Benson's.

Bendo is a brutal infighter, he was tearing Miller and Guida up with knees and bows. But he isn’t much of a puncher.

There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?

by ElliotMatheny on Feb 19, 2012 12:54 AM EST up reply actions  

Rec for any ASoIaF quote.

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Feb 18, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Um. Gendry is not a Black Brother.

I know who you mean, but that’s not his name. Gendry is the dude that was paling around with Arya for a while, remember? The one with the bull helmet.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Feb 19, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd

For outnerding Elliot. You are the victor!

by Sabate on Feb 19, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Good call, I meant Grenn

There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?

by ElliotMatheny on Feb 19, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah.

All those made up names get mixed up.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Feb 19, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

They're not made up!!!

There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?

by ElliotMatheny on Feb 20, 2012 1:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Frankie bothers me.

I was watching these videos:

1.- From 2009: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbHdfUfOZGg

2.- From 2012: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpRImbRBgB4

To me, he’s starting to sound a bit like Chuck, or Leben, even. Am I wrong, or what?

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Feb 18, 2012 8:01 PM EST reply actions  

Could be a bit punch drunk, it doesn't seem too bad.

He’s three years younger, he could just be less excitable. The wiser people get the less they seem to run their mouths!

by Jack Slack on Feb 19, 2012 8:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Sounds like the beginning stages of it to me.

Let’s hope I’m wrong.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Feb 19, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Am I the only one who thinks Jose Aldo could handily win a hypothetical series of fights between Cruz, Edgar and him (They’re all similar sizes, after-all) based on leg-kicks cancelling mobility?

by Gugabe on Feb 19, 2012 9:57 AM EST reply actions  

You are not alone sir.

The only thing I would give them over Aldo is cardio – and if he went up to lighweight I doubt that’d be a problem.

by Jack Slack on Feb 19, 2012 10:04 AM EST up reply actions  

Not just leg kicks,

I reckon he has better technical striking than either of them, knees from hell and one shot K.O. power, something that Cruz and Edgar lack. If he dropped Edgar like Maynard did, I doubt the fight would go on much longer. Ditto for Cruz against Faber, even though they were more like flash knockdowns.

You can’t learn that type of killer instinct.

by ZediiZ on Feb 20, 2012 7:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Mr Slack

You are quickly becoming one of my fav posters here. Excellent breakdown of Frankie’s footwork and everything. I applaud you sir.

"Oooh, she has got a big ole’ behind! I mean, I’d like to slap some barbecue sauce on that big ol’ butt and just uh burr burr burr burr burrrr. OOwwwwooooo!!!!" – Champ Kind

by HeadKickOfDoom on Feb 22, 2012 11:55 AM EST reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

"I'm working on the intricacies of details of maneuvers that he still doesn't even know the names of." - Frank Mir

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Chilli_pickle_283g_hot_small
Junior Dos Santos' Worst UFC Win is Stefan Struve
Wario_small
BECW3 UFC 146 Recap & Live Post discussion
Wario_small
BECW3 UFC 146 Live Post
Madmen_icon_small
Dan Hardy: The Outlaw (Short documentary film)
Me_2_small
Farewell Frank Mir

Recent FanPosts

Small
The Most Valuable Non-UFC Fighters
Small
USA chants during ufc fights!?!?!?!?!?
220px-johnnycash1969_small
Fighters you aren't sold on ?
Small
Duane Ludwig's chasm...ouch
Rousimar-palhares-picture_small
An Appeal to SBNation
Lebowski_excited_grin_small
Top 5 Potential Replacements for Vitor Belfort Against Wanderlei Silva
Obp_small
Help me get a job

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

MMA Rankings

USA Today / SB Nation Consensus MMA Rankings