Breaking Down Paths to Victory for Edgar vs Henderson(Poll included)
On February 26th(or the 25th in the US) the UFC Lightweight Champion Frankie Edgar will attempt to defend his belt against the WEC Lightweight Champion Benson Henderson(lineally, the WEC LW strap passed from Pettis, to Guida, and back to Henderson) in the land of the rising sun.
For me, this is one of the more compelling matches the LW division has to offer. Edgar was dropped approximately 37 times by Gray Maynard between their last two fights, while Henderson has been dropped or rocked by Pettis, Miller, and Guida. The great thing is that both of them show rather quick recovery after having their chins checked, throw in that both have great cardio and you have ingredients for what could be a back and forth war.
I've been thinking about the fight a lot and have tried to break down ways for each fighter to win. I've thought about how each of them could take home a decision, and what would be the most likely way for either to achieve a finish. Breakdwon after the jump.
For Edgar:
To Win a Decision
Benson Henderson has shown a lot of toughness when it comes to surviving submissions and recovering quickly after being rocked or dropped. Given Edgar's higher decision rate and Henderson's durability, a decision victory for Edgar is likely. To pull it off he essentially has to do what he always does. He needs to use his excellent footwork, his ability to sneak in sharp punches, and his talent for mixing in unexpected takedowns when his opponents are least expecting it.
He has to 'Do what Frankie does' for five rounds. I would suggest keeping it standing and at a distance all costs, I wouldn't suggest trying to find out who can outmuscle who in the clinch with 'Smooth'. Circle, punch, kick, occasional takedown, slick combination, rinse and repeat is the name of the game here.
To Finish
I don't like the chances of anyone at lightweight submitting Ben Henderson, and after seeing him flattened by a flush Showtime kick and still survive, I wouldn't bank on a straight KO either. So if Edgar gets a finish, I imagine it will be due to death by accumulation. I think Edgar has the spice to drop or rock Henderson with his better punches, and the key will be to do that a few times over and build up the damage to get a TKO stoppage somewhere in the last 3 rounds.
For Henderson:
To Win a Decision
Benson Henderson is one of the bigger and thicker lightweights in the UFC, while Frankie Edgar is one of the smaller for the division. Henderson has to use that, smother Frankie Edgar, get to him, clinch him, dirty box him, press him against the cage, take him down and just make it a very up close and personal type of fight. Henderson has the cardio to go for five, and he'll need it here. He has to keep constant pressure on Edgar.
If Henderson lets 'The Answer' apply his distance game, he's playing with fire. He needs to stay on Edgar. An applicapble line from Sin City comes to mind, "I gotcha you little bastard, lets see ya hop around now."
To Finish
Edgar is definitely able to be buzzed by the shots Henderson throws. I'm sure even if Edgar's chin was in perfect condition before the Maynard fights, it's certainly not in that type of shape now. But straight KO-ing Edgar doesn't seem like a viable option for Henderson to persue. However, if Henderson can rock Edgar, hurt him badly, and go for a submission, then Edgar's dazed state might leave the perfect opportunity. A late TKO after dropping Edgar multiple times is always a possibility...but subbing a shaken Edgar seems like a much safer choice then hedging your bets on a TKO finish.
Who wins and how?
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Pretty much agree with everything.
I think Frankie keeps his distance for most of the fight to outbox Bendo in way to a UD.
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by Sweet Scientist on Feb 16, 2012 6:21 PM EST reply actions
I agree.
Unless Bendo has really improved his footwork, I think he will have trouble pinning Frank against the fence and doing work from there. Bendo actually has pretty damn good Muay Thai style striking, but his hands are deficient, and he isn’t great from range.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 17, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Yup, Bendo's not that good from the outside.
He’s a goddamn wrecking machine in close quarters tough. But I don’t think he manages to get Edgar there enough to win.
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by Sweet Scientist on Feb 17, 2012 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah dude, he's a brutally effective in fighter.
Great knees, elbows, and punches up close. Plus, he has very strong takedowns to boot.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 17, 2012 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
I voted Bendo by decision, but that may just be wishful thinking. I love watching him fight and while I’d prefer for him to finish Edgar, I wouldn’t want it to be until the verrrry end.
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i'm with you, brother
I really like Bendo. I met him at the Pan Ams BJJ tourney last year, and the guy is humble as shit, down to earth, and has a ton of heart. What’s not to like? Yeah, the whole “Praise be to the Creator! Yeah!!” thing at the end of his fights can be a bit … cringe-worthy … but still. I’m rooting for Bendo to take this match.
I now have a signature statement. Behold!
He's getting better with the religious stuff
I think his failure to elicit an “amen” from the Toronto crowd convinced him to tone it down a bit. Side note – moll is a lady.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 17, 2012 1:13 AM EST up reply actions
good to know
I basically use that phrase like Hulk Hogan does, with the whole world being “brother.” Still, it is good to know such facts about my fellow BE members. So noted.
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just to nit
after seeing him flattened by a flush Showtime kick
It wasn’t flush, it landed on the edge of the foot. Had it landed with the shin or even upper part of the foot, that would’ve been flush.
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by Cory Braiterman on Feb 16, 2012 7:30 PM EST reply actions
I'd say it was pretty flush...
For a flying head kick by someone who just spring-boarded off the cage
by TheFlyingDutchman on Feb 16, 2012 8:35 PM EST up reply actions
I was basically saying that it connected
It may not have been the BEST connection Pettis could have hoped for, but it’s not like it grazed him
"Junior Dos Santos is next." - Alistair Overeem
by Chris Groves on Feb 16, 2012 11:25 PM EST up reply actions
Rec'd for the Sin City quote
Bendo by excitingly close decision. You should do this for every main event,really enjoyed it.
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by Our Bovine Public on Feb 16, 2012 9:16 PM EST reply actions
Thanks for the rec
Sometimes I think people are charged $10 a rec or something for fanposts.
But yeah, I figured if this one was received well enough, I’d keep doing them…it’s pretty entertaining and really gets me that much more excited for a fight.
I was ACTUALLY planning to start with Dos Santos vs Overeem…and I’ve got that one drafted a bit, but I thought Bendo-Edgar was more timely.
"Junior Dos Santos is next." - Alistair Overeem
by Chris Groves on Feb 16, 2012 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
what about Overeem's last fight?
The one after Lesnar and prior to his anticipated bout with Dos Santos?
I now have a signature statement. Behold!
The alleged 'pushing the face of the woman' exhibition fight?
I know nothing of that…including whether or not it ACTUALLY happened.
"Junior Dos Santos is next." - Alistair Overeem
by Chris Groves on Feb 17, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
I think Bendo chokes him before championship rounds
And Frankie wont tap
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by halitosis on Feb 16, 2012 10:40 PM EST via mobile reply actions 1 recs
Doubt it,
Frank’s submission defense is rock solid.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 17, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Bendo’s pretty much unsubmittable as well.
Fuck you, double fingers
- Nick Diaz
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by TheLastEmpress on Feb 17, 2012 8:44 PM EST up reply actions
For sure,
that’s why Miller got so tired. He thought he had a sub, burned himself out trying for hit, and resultantly got his ass whooped
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 18, 2012 1:42 AM EST up reply actions
Didn’t he have a kidney infection or something equally gross?
Fuck you, double fingers
- Nick Diaz
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society
- Mark Twain
by TheLastEmpress on Feb 18, 2012 10:14 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that's another possible factor
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 18, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks
"Junior Dos Santos is next." - Alistair Overeem
by Chris Groves on Feb 17, 2012 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
Edgar via sub
yep lets go!
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by Kevin Jennison J. Zametov-St Pierre on Feb 17, 2012 12:10 AM EST reply actions
Bendo is a great fighter
But a wrestler who has issues with defensive striking is not necessarily a good style match up. I think this goes like the Bendo/Guida fight. Both guys are competitive, but one guy (probably Edgar) pulls out the score cards.
by discoandherpes on Feb 17, 2012 12:18 AM EST reply actions
Frankie “The coolest guy from jersey” Edgar by decision
by Afrotikiman on Feb 17, 2012 12:51 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I rec'd you for this.
An applicapble line from Sin City comes to mind, “I gotcha you little bastard, lets see ya hop around now.”
Always rec Sin City. Also a good observation. Bendo should study Rampage’s attempts to corral Machida and force him to fight in a phone booth. Ben’s got to stick his lead foot to Frankie’s and cut off the cage.
Share for share, share alike, you'll get struck each time I strike.
Thanks, and that is very true.
"Junior Dos Santos is next." - Alistair Overeem
by Chris Groves on Feb 17, 2012 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
I think the poll numbers reflect the potential reality of the fight pretty well
Frankie being Frankie is by far the most likely single outcome, followed by Henderson winning in any number of ways, then Frankie by some kind of finish. The question is how to weigh those various options, and I’m at a loss.
Also, rec’d for the great post and the Sin City reference.
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Thanks.
"Junior Dos Santos is next." - Alistair Overeem
by Chris Groves on Feb 17, 2012 1:14 AM EST up reply actions
Also, that's a very good breakdown
Edgar by decision is more likely than Henderson by anything
But Henderson winning is more likely than Edgar finishing.
"Junior Dos Santos is next." - Alistair Overeem
by Chris Groves on Feb 17, 2012 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
When I voted and saw results there were 108 total votes.
And 54 went to each fighter.
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by Zachary Kater on Feb 17, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions
Question for everyone
As Chris points out, clinch work and dirty boxing against the cage figures to be a huge part of Bendo’s strategy against Frankie. Can anybody recall any of Edgar’s opponents trying something similar in a previous fight? I remember Maynard having some success landing knees in their third fight on a couple of occasions, but aside from that I’m drawing a blank.
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Frankie's footwork makes it so that people are never really in the position to clinch up with him
by discoandherpes on Feb 17, 2012 2:34 AM EST up reply actions
That was my feeling too, thanks
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 17, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
as J Jones says
everybody has tendencies. And Frankie has a lot of tendencies of his own. Since Frankie is small, and he is an undersized wrestler-boxer he needs to get fairly close to let his hands loose he is vulnerable to counter punching. He likes to attack low, so he might eat uppercuts on the entry. He got rocked with a left hook and an uppercut by Maynard, BJ bloodied his nose, Griffin tagged him as well. He is also susceptible to submissions as Griffin got him into a nasty looking kneebar. He likes to fake a TD as a means to get close to the opponent and then to get an angle and throw short upper cuts or hooks as the opponent drops hands to protect a TD. That’s how he tagged Maynard. Edgar is hard to keep down, but he was taken down by Griffin and Penn, so Bendo being the biggest of them all should have a chance. I don’t know, I don’t think Edga will come up with something completely new so it’s mostly up to Bendo to figure out an efficient way to tie Frankie up and do damage to him. Edgar is also susceptible to leg kicks, but Bendo is not known for effective leg kicking. So I guess Bendo should throw knees, upper cuts, clinch, bully Frankie against the fence, daze him and submit. I think it’s much more realistic outcome than Frankie repeating his feat of outlasting his opponents.
Bendo has a bit of a problem with fast guys. You could see it in the Guida fight as compared to the Miller fight where he seemed slow when it came to imposing his will. It’s possible that Edgar can get into rhythm early and continue on throughout the fight, especially since he doesn’t have to worry about Bendo counter-punching him.
...he also sends me messages saying "Prepare your soul, only god and jiu jitsu can save you and god isn’t listening". -Patrick Tenney
of course there is a chance that Frankie figures out the rythm early and spends 5 rounds with sticfk&run, and I hope not cause it’s quite unwatchable. But Bendo being Bendo I think he will make things happen for him. the mistake of Penn and Maynard 2,3 was that they were chasing Frankie’s chin. When Maynard wrestled Edgar in their first fight, he won it, so Bendo having so much size on Edgar, 25 minutes of fight time and no fear of Frankie’s KO power should be able to take Edgar down or to pin him against the fence.
But a KO is not the only thing to fear
Edgar has shown that he does have a bit of power in his hands. I’m not claiming he’s now a one-punch knockout artist. Just that if he stings Bendo with enough hard shots, Edgar can keep Henderson thinking and worried about the striking. We have seen that even a stiff jab is enough to maintain control of the action.
...he also sends me messages saying "Prepare your soul, only god and jiu jitsu can save you and god isn’t listening". -Patrick Tenney
I think the fact that Bendo uses kicks whereas Frankie pretty much only throws punches means Bendo could find the right range to score points and keep away from Frankie’s combinations. But as you mentioned, the speed of Edgar will make things rather difficult.
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by Zachary Kater on Feb 17, 2012 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Frankie Edgar uses a lot of kicks
Swept BJ Penn with them, slowed down Gray Maynard with them, and generally uses them well.
My whole argument that Edgar would beat Melendez is that he throws a lot of leg kicks.
by discoandherpes on Feb 17, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
You think he’ll still try to employ them against a guy like Benson whose looking to grapple at any chance? It’ll be interesting to find out.
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by Zachary Kater on Feb 17, 2012 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
I think he'll have to
Part of Edgar’s success is that he keeps guys guessing with leg kicks and takedowns, and uses them to set up the hands.
by discoandherpes on Feb 18, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Nice work, rec'd
It’s such a hard fight to pick, that I think I’m just going to go with the guy I like more in Bendo. That said, I think of all the scenarios you laid out, Frankie working in and out from range and frustrating Bendo might be the most likely.
Still if Bendo can cut off his movement and push him up against the cage, I think Frankie’s in for a long night.
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thanks, and yeah
Like Dominick Cruz or Lyoto Machida…Edgar’s MO is pretty much set in stone, and it’s more about what his opponent is going to try to do to counteract his style than if Edgar is going to try and change things up.
"Junior Dos Santos is next." - Alistair Overeem
by Chris Groves on Feb 17, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
Bendo by decision victory.
Edgar is hard to finish(i.e. unfinishable) but Bendo is so big for a LW and extremely well rounded and powerful—I have to go with Bendo.
I'm no Michael Bisping.
I don’t think he cuts any more than Maynard. I see this going similarly to Edgar/Maynard 3.
Fuck you, double fingers
- Nick Diaz
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society
- Mark Twain
by TheLastEmpress on Feb 17, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
This is easy
Bendo is is probably the best athlete in the division (either him or Guillard) but he has some of the worst striking defense I’ve ever seen
Edgar is going to tag him repeatedly
Edgar has shown great vulnerability in his fights and his style has been pretty much the same.It is only a matter of time until other fighters figure him out. Everybody eventually gets figured out. So I bet Bendo does it, and then Frankie will drop to feather weight, coz with Pettis and Lauzon and Nate Diaz and other up and comers lightweight isn’t getting any easier, it’s only gonna get tougher for Edgar to survive against bigger and more well rounded fighters.
Solid work Groves. Rec'd.
Great breakdown with realistic ends. It’ll be interesting seeing which direction it goes.
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Thanks for the rec
And yeah…writing something like this has made me much more excited to see what actually happens.
"Junior Dos Santos is next." - Alistair Overeem
by Chris Groves on Feb 17, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
Well..
I think part of it comes from the analysis and breakdown, where you start putting together a more comprehensive idea of how a fighter performs in the past. Seeing Edgar come from behind and how he does it, or watching Bendo be Bendo gets you hyped to see them again. You relive their best and worst moments and try and frame what will be.
The other part? Attempting to make a solid prediction on who’s got what based off of that. When you watch enough MMA/sports in general, you realize theorycrafting goes as far as putting it into practice. Absolutes mean next to nothing because they depend on a laundry list of intangibles that can go either way on a given night. Realizing that, you just want it to hurry up and get done so you can see what actually happens. This very easily could have been a ‘Why Bendo beats Edgar and how’ or vice versa-type post with a definite prediction at the end, and I think it’d be a weaker piece if so.
I can list what Edgar’s done, I can say what he’s likely to do, but the only one that can say for sure is Frank Edgar on 2/26 in Japan.
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by Fistbeard on Feb 17, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Very well said
"Junior Dos Santos is next." - Alistair Overeem
by Chris Groves on Feb 17, 2012 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
Good post. A lot of people seem to be underestimating Frankie. I say he gets the UD.
Fuck you, double fingers
- Nick Diaz
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society
- Mark Twain
The poll results seems to disagree
Looks like a lot more are picking Edgar same as you.
...he also sends me messages saying "Prepare your soul, only god and jiu jitsu can save you and god isn’t listening". -Patrick Tenney
I see Frankie winning by TKO in rd 4 or 5.
Henderson got dropped pretty badly by Guida, and I can see Frankie doing the same thing. I think he will be able to defend Henderson’s wrestling and land the better shots. He’ll wear Ben down, and in the later rounds the accumulation of strikes will lead to a TKO.
I think Bendo's only option for the finish
Is to drop Frankie then get on top and get the TKO due to Frankie not defending. The one thing Maynard was never able to do when he got Frankie rocked was hold him in one place where he could continue to land. Frankie kept defending by moving away. The ref will have to stop it eventually if Bendo can get Frankie cornered on the cage with top position and land shots.
Ben Henderson is going to dominate Edgar
He is much bigger and better at everything besides boxing.
Fighting is like champagne. It goes to the heads of cowards as quickly as of heroes. Any fool can be brave on a battlefield when it's be brave or else be killed.
Man, Frankie can't get no respect.
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by Sweet Scientist on Feb 17, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions
I respect him a lot
But he is just so small and Maynard almost finished him twice and if Gray had any BJJ he would have RNC’ed Frankie at least twice in each fight.
Fighting is like champagne. It goes to the heads of cowards as quickly as of heroes. Any fool can be brave on a battlefield when it's be brave or else be killed.
by NEW-HAMPSHIRE on Feb 17, 2012 8:54 PM EST up reply actions
I also think Henderson is just a way better version of Gray Maynard.
Fighting is like champagne. It goes to the heads of cowards as quickly as of heroes. Any fool can be brave on a battlefield when it's be brave or else be killed.
by NEW-HAMPSHIRE on Feb 17, 2012 8:58 PM EST up reply actions
Not so.
Totally different fighters. Gray has good power in his hands, and is primarily a boxer + wrestler. Bendo is a solid wrestler for sure, but his striking is definitely more Muay Thai flavored, especially as an infighter (where he excels with knees, elbows, etc)
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 18, 2012 1:43 AM EST up reply actions
This.
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by Sweet Scientist on Feb 18, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions
I think Bendo has less power, much more versatility
He still is a technically flawed defensive fighter. Guida was able to hurt him just because Bendo was in a bad position to take the punch.
Frankie Edgar is basically a better version of Guida. Both are guys who can fight at 145, and although Guida lost every round he was competitive. I think the fight plays out similarly, regardless of who wins.
by discoandherpes on Feb 18, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Thats what I mean by better version.
He is a good wrestler and he has way better BJJ, striking, TDD, etc.
Fighting is like champagne. It goes to the heads of cowards as quickly as of heroes. Any fool can be brave on a battlefield when it's be brave or else be killed.
by NEW-HAMPSHIRE on Feb 18, 2012 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't necessarily say that, though.
I don’t think there’s any evidence to suggest that Bendo has better takedown defense than Gray. I also wouldn’t say that he’s a better striker… Benson is good in close, but Maynard is superior at range IMO.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 19, 2012 12:56 AM EST up reply actions
I think they are very different types of fighters
I mean Bendo and Maynard. So it seems most ppl here agree that for Bendo the road to W is footwork, aggression and ability to bully/control Edgar physically, getting close to Edgar and unleashing. And for Edgar is the same he did to Maynard/Penn. The difference is just whether you’re willing to admit that Bendo would be able to immobilize Frankie or not or you think Edgar can pull off the same trick again. Plus, both can probably surprise us with something new. But I think Bendo has a sizable edge/more tools and options in this one.
I think
that in 5 rounds Henderson will get him on the ground at some time and submit him. It could be a scramble or something crazy but I just feel like Henderson will get him.
Fighting is like champagne. It goes to the heads of cowards as quickly as of heroes. Any fool can be brave on a battlefield when it's be brave or else be killed.
by NEW-HAMPSHIRE on Feb 18, 2012 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
I think Bendo's biggest asset in this fight
is his endless cardio. Gray Maynard slowed down in both fights against Edgar, same could be said about BJ, he did’nt really pressure Edgar. Bendo has cardio to rival Edgar, he does’nt slow down either.
I cannot wait for this fight, and l reckon Bendo will put up a hell of a fight, but l still reckon Edgar wins a UD.
Bendo's cardio is in part because he knows how to pace himself
Pettis was able to capitalize on this and win three rounds.
by discoandherpes on Feb 18, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
It's certainly a tough one to call
My initial reaction after Henderson vs Guida was ‘Ben is going to smash Frankie’
But that was hype from Henderson’s performance mixed with a dislike of Frankie back then.
My opinions on each fighter aren’t heated anymore…and looking at it purely as a matchup, it’s very close.
"Junior Dos Santos is next." - Alistair Overeem
by Chris Groves on Feb 18, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Really close
I’ve predicted Henderson by decision and an awesome fight. You’re breakdown is really good, I would say that either fighter is going to prove really tricky to finish and I just think Henderson will control where the fight takes place.
Yes, I feel he has to if he wants the W
"Junior Dos Santos is next." - Alistair Overeem
by Chris Groves on Feb 18, 2012 9:59 PM EST up reply actions

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