UFC On Fuel TV Results: Carlos Condit Shouldn't Wait For Georges St. Pierre
by Josh Nason on Feb 16, 2012 3:20 PM EST
in UFC Editorial
Email
Print
Like it or not, our society is one that thrives on having a short-term memory. This is especially the case in MMA where a fighter's most recent outing is what sticks as reality.
Enter Carlos Condit, the UFC interim 170-pound champion fresh off a title-winning performance that was as polarizing a victory as we've seen in the sport in quite some time.
Condit now sits on an interesting opportunity: enjoy his accomplishments and wait for a title unification bout against Georges St. Pierre or defend his belt for the first time this summer, either against de facto No. 1 contender Jake Ellenberger or Nick Diaz if his suspension either gets lifted or shortened. Among the writers of this site, media and fans, the opinion is split. Should Condit wait or defend?
To me, this is an easy one. Condit should defend his title this summer.
When the on-again, off-again title shot malarkey was muddying up the welterweight waters last fall, I thought Condit got screwed out of his then-promised title opportunity because St. Pierre says he demanded he fight Diaz instead. I like Condit and can appreciate how the former WEC Welterweight Champion has slowly evolved into one of the division's top talents. He earned his opportunity against Diaz a few weeks ago at UFC 143 and took advantage of it.
However, there's no doubt that his in-cage reputation took a big hit from fans and fighters alike with the win. Even his teammate at Greg Jackson's -- Diego Sanchez -- said that as a fan, he was down on the fight. People accused him of running and unfortunate connections to Kalib Starnes were made. Either you appreciated Condit's game plan or you despised it.
Even those like myself who thought Condit won felt a little empty after it was all said and done. It was ok, but was it what we expect out of a championship winning performance?
That brings us to last night when Ellenberger survived a fun scrap with Sanchez at UFC On Fuel to win his sixth in a row. With Diaz likely out of the picture for most of the next year, it's hard to deny that he's now in prime position for a title shot of his own. There's simply not anyone else that has the creds right now to justify one, which is why this rematch of their September 2009 split decision makes a lot of sense for June or July.
Well, it makes sense to me anyway. I've heard arguments about how St. Pierre/Ellenberger wouldn't be a draw if Condit was to lose and that Condit should wait for his big payday against St. Pierre in a pay-per-view (PPV) hat will draw between 800,000 to 1 million buys.
After the jump, here's what I would say to that sentiment.
- St. Pierre vs. Condit or Ellenberger would draw the same amount of interest. Let's be realistic here: outside of Diaz, all other welterweight challengers to GSP are essentially the same person when it comes to promotion.
- It's an assumption that GSP will be 100% in November, which is the month Dana White threw out recently. I'll be selfish in saying that I don't want another Cain Velasquez situation where a champion is forced to rush back and then sets his career back further after his return fight. I want one of the best in the world to be healthy for as long as he can. If that means waiting a few extra months, so be it. Yeah, yeah, no one is ever 100% but this is a bit different than a muscle pull or sprain.
- People pointing to a possible Condit/Ellenberger clash as being a bad PPV draw need to chill out. The UFC will have 30+ shows this year, so the possibility of a poor draw as a main event is something they can shrug off quickly. They have had bad buy rates in the past and will have bad buy rates in the future.
With that many events, not putting together a champion vs. an obvious No. 1 challenger because it would be bad for business isn't an option. (Anderson Silva vs. Yushin Okami, anyone?) There's always ways to help support in a co-main event spot.
The most important reason this needs to happen: Condit needs it to. Nine months on the shelf is too long to wait. What if he knocks out Ellenberger? That would not only help enhance a fight with GSP, but also erase this bad taste so many have in their mouths from the Diaz fight. A fighter entering the prime years of his career and fresh off achieving his dream of owning UFC gold shouldn't let the embers cool down.
It's time for Condit to cement himself as what he feels he is -- the best in the world -- and the way to do that is to fight.
99 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I think the UFC just doesn't want to make a call
before the Diaz situation is sorted out. If Diaz manages to avoid a year-long suspension, they’ll want to do the rematch.
Ned Stark's Bastards, yo
by Bookhouse on Feb 16, 2012 3:24 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Ellenberger deserves a rematch against Condit WAY more than Diaz does.
Condit clearly beat Diaz (doesn’t mean it wasn’t a close fight, but it was crystal clear), whereas Ellenberger/ Condit is a much more debatable decision. I had Jake winning the first round 10-8, and Condit winning the 2’nd and 3’rd 10-9.
Condit won a clear 49-46 IMO, 49-47 at worst if you INSIST that Diaz didn’t lose the 1st round.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 16, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I just don't care about controversy at all.
I understand the business side of MMA, but that shouldn’t keep us hardcore fans from voicing our opinion and trying to keep the UFC a meritocracy.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 16, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions
I miss Liddell’s attitude to take on all comers. If Condit is confident he’s the best, he should fight whoever they put in front of him. Heck, he should be demanding to face the best guys. If he thinks he’s good enough to be champion he shouldn’t even be thinking about “what if I lose” scenarios. He should think “I’ll beat Ellenberger, GSP, Diaz again, and whoever else is dumb enough to get in the cage with me. Just get me fights with the best in the world based on who’s available the soonest.”
I would have a horseshoe surgically implanted in my ass just so Brock would pull it out and beat me over the head with it while I pleasure myself.
Please visit the
Daniel James Miller Foundation and donate.
by Machiel Van on Feb 16, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The “he should wait for GSP because it’s a bigger fight/payday” attitude REEKS of the unfortunate things that happen in boxing.
I would have a horseshoe surgically implanted in my ass just so Brock would pull it out and beat me over the head with it while I pleasure myself.
Please visit the
Daniel James Miller Foundation and donate.
by Machiel Van on Feb 16, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
So far, Carlos has plainly said,
he just wants to fight the best guys and the biggest fights. I don’t think he’ll wait for Georges on his own accord. No guarantee Georges will even take that fight first when he comes back, or that he’ll even be back this year. This is really just the UFC’s call, and I think they’re just going to wait and see how Johnny Hendricks does, and it’ll be either him or Ellenberger.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Feb 16, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
DFW hinted that Carlos would either take the Diaz rematch or wait for GSP
And I PROMISE you, GSP comes right back to the title unification bout. That’s not even up for debate. They won’t give him some tune up fight and hope he doesn’t lose his title to some hack.
I'm not Hauser, I'm Quaid!
If Georges wants to fight Nick, and they're both eligible,
they won’t prevent that one from happening. Yeah they’re not going to have Georges fight anyone else, but St.Pierre/Diaz is no less huge a PPV for there being no belt unification. If that fight is possible and is Georges’ choice, it’ll happen.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Feb 16, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions
Not a rhetorical question:
Has the ufc ever had a champion return and not fight the interim champion in their first fight back? I can’t think of a time.
I'm not Hauser, I'm Quaid!
I can't either,
but it’s a too rare an occurrence to think there’s solid precedent. Even Georges’ return timetable is completely up in the air. November isn’t a solid date. Just saying, I think for Carlos to assume all this is foolish, and he’d be better off taking another fight than just leaving his fate in Georges’ hands.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Feb 16, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
But Carlos is in a tough spot; either he takes a fight with elenburger or whoever in the meantime and risks losing the interim belt and the chance to fight GSP or he takes close to a year off waits for a huge title fight with GSP way down the road and risk getting Rashad Evans’d out of the title shot.
I’d take the title defense I think.
I'm not Hauser, I'm Quaid!
When Randy fought Brock.
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
Follow me on Twitter @chris81203
by Chris Hall on Feb 16, 2012 5:08 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 3 recs
I don’t think there was an interim champion then. That was UFC 91 and Mir won the interim belt at ufc 92… says wikipedia.
I'm not Hauser, I'm Quaid!
Nog was interim champ after beating Sylvia.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 16, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
ah yes...
So Nog wins the interim belt from Sylvia, then Randy comes back, loses his real belt to Brock, then Nog loses the interim belt to Mir after the real belt has already changed hands, then finally Mir gets caught trying to steal Brocks strawberries.
Why does that timeline sound so screwy?
I'm not Hauser, I'm Quaid!
its
Correct. Mir and Nog were shooting the ultimate fighter and had their bout signed already when randy came back.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Feb 16, 2012 11:54 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I doubt
The UFC would let GSP take pick-up fight. If he loses, without loosing to Condit, or whoever the Interim champion is at the time, The UFC will be utterly screwed.
GSP is one of the most dominant......
ufc champs ever, i dont think they will offer him a tune up fight unless he himself asks for it.
Yeah, he's gonna have to fight Ellenberger if he wins, anyways.
I would understand, but couldn’t help being a tad disappointed if Condit turned down a rematch with Jake. It would basically be saying either “I don’t think I can beat you, you’ll ruin my title shot,” or "I’m pretty sure I’m going to lose to GSP, but I just want a title shot, to put “UFC Title Challenger” on my resume.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 16, 2012 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
Or it could just say
“There’s always a risk to get caught in MMA and I’m not wagering my shot at the title no matter how good I think the odds are”
"A belt only covers two inches of your ****and the rest you need to back up on your own." Royce Gracie (allegedly...I just read it somewhere and thought it was cool for my sig!)
He's also risking his title shot if he sits on the sidelines and develops cage rust.
Ellenberger presents a similar stylistic matchup to Condit that GSP does. Odds are, Carlos is going to have to fight him anyways.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 17, 2012 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
This, and I love watching Diaz fight, and would love a rematch with Carlos,
but at a certain point, meaning now, Nick is getting special consideration because his fans are rightly rabid about him. He lost, and that’s the end of it. The problem is this interim limbo, where we’re not going to think of Condit as the champ until he beats GSP, so anything goes in the interim. If Carlos was the actual champ, everyone would say hey Nick had his shot, let’s move on to Jake or Johnny. Interim belts confuse everything when they’re in play for more than one fight. What if Carlos defends it twice this year? And if GSP decides to relinquish his to fight Diaz early next year? On the one hand, this is all the more interesting for WW, on the other this could be a real circus by year’s end.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Feb 16, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Same here.
Unless Condit or Ellenberger are injured, it only makes sense to have them fight, to keep the action at WW moving forward. GSP won’t be back until November… that’s 8 months from now. Barring injuries, Carlos & Jake could be fighting by May or June.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 16, 2012 6:28 PM EST up reply actions
Sometimes controversy is warranted and sometimes not...
..I think in this case it was close enough to warrant a rematch, however, Ellenberger definitely deserves a rematch as well. Will be interesting to see what the UFC does.
I'm no Michael Bisping.
Jake is more deserving IMO.
And the rematch is more interesting. I’m pretty sure Condit will do the same thing to Diaz this time around; whereas Condit and Ellenberger are much better and more experienced in the UFC than they were for their first fight.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 16, 2012 6:30 PM EST up reply actions
I get that you yourself don't care,
But I think it’s a bit obtuse not to acknowledge that apparently a hell of a large section of MMA fans do care, and a large section of those also think it was a lot closer than you do.
I think your point about hardcores’ POV is valuable and frankly I share it.
LOL. I just said hardcore POV. Thats in porn too, hehehehehe. durrrrrrr.
But seriously, I think that a Diaz Condit rematch is more in demand considering. But Condit really looks like the kind of guy who will play the company man to the end. He’ll fight whoever the UFC wants him to, and he’ll do it with a great attitude and no complaints.
I thought Lay N Pray was a stupid insult until I watched Tyron Woodley fight.
To each their own.
I was honestly baffled that Condit/ Diaz is so “controversial.”
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 16, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
Talking to other MMA fans, sensible ones, not Nick Diaz fans, many saw Condit “running away” and don’t feel that he should have won that fight. Even the author of this article is implying something with the whole “It was ok, but was it what we expect out of a championship winning performance?” line. Even for me, I had Condit winning rounds 1, 3, and 4, with Diaz winning rounds 2 and 5. I think that there is an argument that Diaz could have won rounds 1, 2, and 5.
Check out the C&D Channel on YouTube at: http://www.youtube.com/user/Gobusiness123 for MMA reviews, predictions, analysis, and other MMA related content.
I don't see any argument for Diaz winning the 1'st,
and the argument for Diaz winning the 5’th round is that he took the back, and accomplished nothing from that spot.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 17, 2012 3:21 AM EST up reply actions
Taking the back by itself is getting dominant position and probably the most significant thing that happened in that round. If you are just looking purely from a damage aspect, then it didn’t do anything in that regards.
Check out the C&D Channel on YouTube at: http://www.youtube.com/user/Gobusiness123 for MMA reviews, predictions, analysis, and other MMA related content.
Condit outstruck Diaz in the rest of the round.
And Diaz accomplished nothing with his brief stint in back control. I don’t believe in “dominant positions” unless that position involves putting ALOT of weight onto a vulnerable area of the opponent’s body, like knee- on- belly, scarf hold side control, etc
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 17, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Except forcing Condit to defend against the highest percentage submission hold, therefore creating offense
by discoandherpes on Feb 17, 2012 5:19 AM EST up reply actions
Okay, well if it's the highest percentage submission hold,
then isn’t it kind of embarrassing that Nick wasn’t able to finish it? Nick didn’t even use a RNC to try and squeeze Condit’s head or get a neck crank like Aoki, he was nowhere close to finishing that choke. He completely missed the armbar. And he landed zero strikes from that position.
So how exactly was that offense?
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 17, 2012 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
also:
i do not get the point of an interim belt if you don’t defend it. why not just call it a #1 contender fight?
by Clifford J on Feb 16, 2012 3:30 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Interesting. I don't get the point of an interim belt if you DO defend it.
At that point, you’re not just the placeholder for the champ, you’re now defending the title, whereas the champ is still on the sidelines. Might as well just strip the champion if it’s going to go on this long. Either way, I think waiting for GSP is a bad idea. Carlos could fight twice and still have time to fight GSP at the end of the year, if he’s even back by then.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Feb 16, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
hmm
i normally like your posts but i don’t agree with your title.
the point of making an interim belt (which maybe never should be done – maybe you should strip the champ if he can’t defend) is so that you can keep having title fights while you wait for the champ to get better. you have “two” champs. that’s the point. if you don’t like having two champs, either don’t make the belt or strip the champ.
so that’s why i said: what’s the point of making condit the interim champm if he isn’t going to defend it? you could just keep having WW fights and then GSP defends whenever he defends.
alternatively, you could strip GSP.
but the whole point of making the “fake” belt is to keep having WW title fights while GSP is on the shelf without stripping him. if you are going to shelve the belt for 9 months regardless, why bother with the interim belt?
i read your post as just not liking the whole idea of an “interim” champ. which is fair enough.
i guess the important thing is we both agree its a waste to leave condit on the shelf for 9 months.
Yeah, you read me right.
I wasn’t criticizing what you said, it’s just that once we’re past the interim belt fight, the unification fight should be next. It’s awkward to have the non-champ defending the non-belt, you know? If Carlos were to defend it twice, then beat GSP, does he have two defenses? Three? or none? Just a strange situation, and I realize to a degree this is just semantics. It’s just that if you’re defending the interim belt, you’re the champ now IMO. But of course my boy Carlos is in limbo until GSP returns to allow for legitimizing his claim. I do think waiting for Georges is a bad idea, I just also think there’s no guarantees on when GSP is back, and what he wants to do then. And if Georges still has some designs on fighting Nick rather than Carlos, then just strip him of the title now.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Feb 16, 2012 5:17 PM EST up reply actions
I love this discussion
If condit gets injured and gsp stay out for ages we will need to have an interim interim belt. And we should debate whether that belt should be defended.
by Arca MMA on Feb 18, 2012 4:11 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Two things
I think it’s lame to say that everyone found Condit’s performance against Diaz underwhelming. I watched it with a dozen people, who all enjoyed the fight and Condit’s strategy immensely. I was shocked to get online and find that some people were frustrated by the fight, and then immediately deduced that most of those people were just hungry for Diaz boxing.
Secondly, Ellenberger would absolutely not draw as well against GSP as Condit would. That’s ridiculous to suggest.
Nate (after a spinning elbow by Carlos at 1:58): Fuckin’ dick!
Fine, some people didn't find the fight exciting,
but I agree with you. I was totally into it. If someone was waiting for Nick to unload a storm of punches against the fence, they were disappointed, whereas I was loving it as a Condit fan. Carlos had nothing to prove as far as gameness, toughness, etc. goes. What he did show was a level of discipline and composure he’s never had before. Something that went a long way to convincing me he’s the better test for George than Nick.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Feb 16, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
See?
There are a lot of people that feel this way, yet those who don’t are illustrating the impressions of the bout with these broad strokes, as though to suggest it was universally considered boring. I thought it was an early FOTY candidate and was REALLY hoping they’d get an immediate rematch.
Nate (after a spinning elbow by Carlos at 1:58): Fuckin’ dick!
by Charles Awad on Feb 16, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Uh no to foty
Otherwise I’m with ya
by Armleglegarm Head on Feb 16, 2012 3:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I thought = subjective
Don’t mind if people disagree with that (fast paced, five rounds, the tension, Diaz talking shit, the fifth round scare, the decision). I had sensory overload.
Nate (after a spinning elbow by Carlos at 1:58): Fuckin’ dick!
by Charles Awad on Feb 16, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
True
I’m a huge Condit fan, but I do also like Diaz and was excited about what he’d bring to a fight with GSP (particularly from an emotional perspective). I honestly just thought it was a fantastic fight.
Nate (after a spinning elbow by Carlos at 1:58): Fuckin’ dick!
by Charles Awad on Feb 16, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I'm a bigger fan of Carlos,
but Nick is awesome to watch as well. I really wanted to see the rematch. This whole interim belt thing is going to get really screwy though. Let’s say Carlos defends it once, against Ellenberger, then GSP gets back and still wants to fight Nick instead of Condit. At what point is Carlos legitimized as the champion? Obviously the interim belt shouldn’t mean much until you beat the champ, but what happens when the champ is out for 18 months, and the interim belt is being defended multiple times? I guess if GSP wants Diaz rather than Condit, he has to give up his belt, but this all puts Carlos in a weird grey area for the foreseeable future.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Feb 16, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
I found Condit’s performance to be a championship winning performance for following such a gameplan against an opponent like Diaz. The gameplan definitely worked as it clearly frustrated Diaz, but it allowed Condit to hit Diaz constantly but take as little damage from Diaz. If that wasn’t a championship winning performance, then what is the alternative? If Condit didn’t do what he did, then the fight most likely would have went with Condit having his back to the fence and Diaz unloading on him while Condit hits some counter punches that Diaz would most likely just walk through.
Check out the C&D Channel on YouTube at: http://www.youtube.com/user/Gobusiness123 for MMA reviews, predictions, analysis, and other MMA related content.
see, heres the thing: Carlos is well within his rights to fight however he wants. No one is begrudging him that. IT got him the win. IT was smart. This is where this disconnect is: the hardcore fans want everyone to not only respect the game plan, but love it, and by extension the fight itself. If you didnt love watching Carlos circle throwing leg kicks at 50% power for 5 rounds, your a heathen “Just Bleed” fan who doesnt understand MMA. The truth, I believe, is somewhere in the middle. What the hardcore fans dont seem to grasp is that there is a price to pay for that gameplan. There always has been, always will be. Why was Randy Couture universally beloved? His fights were sometimes boring. Hes kind of a douche in real life, evidently. And yet, there may not be a more beloved fighter in MMA history. Why? Because, when he was fighting Tim Sylvia, outweighed by 50 lbs, with a 1 foot reach and 10 year age disadvantage, he stood right in front of him for an entire round and beat his ass. He didnt have to. He was taking him down at will. He could have taken him down at any point. In fact, Tim’s only way to win was for Randy to do exactly what he did: stand right in front of him. What I always remember about that fight was Randy, with 45 seconds left and the fight completely won, was on top in total control. What was he doing? Laying on him, holding him down and neutralizing him, playing it safe? Nope, he was desperately trying to posture up to rain down bombs. Maybe he was dumb to do that. Maybe not. All I know is, that stuff matters, no matter how hard people try to pretend that it doesnt. Its a sport, and winning is obviously important, but this isnt MLB. There is more to all of this, in combat sports more then any other, then just stats on a page.
That's fine
I’m saying what my perception was, and how I was personally surprised to see some detractors. I’m not trying to indicate what should and shouldn’t be enjoyed or exalted as the purest form of MMA. I just honestly thought it would be more widely enjoyed, and feel a lot as though the craving for Diaz boxing has muddied a lot of minds.
Nate (after a spinning elbow by Carlos at 1:58): Fuckin’ dick!
by Charles Awad on Feb 16, 2012 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
I think your post is sensible,
but the Couture example exists to say that people’s annoyance with Carlos ignores everything he’s done in his career, and is so transitory and biased that one exciting performance will erase people’s “short-term memory” opinion of him.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Feb 16, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
No no, you’ve got it all wrong: its a backhanded compliment to everything he has done. Lets put it this way: If Fitch had done what Carlos did, or an equivalent, would the internet have exploded? Wouldnt we all have expected that? The only way Fitch can win is by Fitching. However, Condit made a conscious choice to fight the way he did. Condit is a fabulously talented fighter, with a million tools in the toolbox, tons of heart, great recovery ability. He had many avenues down which he could have traveled in that fight. He looked at them, and actively chose to pick the safest path. Now, IM NOT SAYING HE WAS WRONG. He won, right? So whos to argue it was a wrong choice. HOWEVER……..for the hardcore fans to then sit back and say people shouldnt be remotely……whats the word…..let down? disappointed? non-plussed? that a fighter, in the biggest fight of his life, sat back and chose the path of least danger, is unrealistic at best. Like I said above, there is a reason 20,000 fans chant RAN-dy RAN-dy RAN-dy, or Chuck is on the side of Slurpee cups. There is a reason Arturo Gatti sold out Atlantic City for 5 years running, and it wasnt because he won every fight. Winning is everything……..and yet, winning doesnt mean shit. Its the paradox of boxing and MMA.
What I'm saying,
is that these feelings are transitory, and while one performance can sometimes be career defining, in Condit’s case that’s very unlikely. The guy has walked a long path in bloody footprints. I don’t particularly mind at all if people were disappointed, though many of their reactions were flat out stupid, because many other reasonable people weren’t that into Carlos performance either. That’s okay, but the antipathy won’t last long with most, Carlos’ whole career argues against it, and one or two fights down the road, wins or losses, he won’t be defined by one fight.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Feb 16, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed...
I enjoyed the fight a lot. The gameplan to beat Diaz was there and Condit executed it and had the patience to stick with it for five rounds, I thought it was a great performance.
by ChicagoMMAFan on Feb 16, 2012 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
Judging by your second point,
I take it you’re one of the people who Josh is referring to with this:
People pointing to a possible Condit/Ellenberger clash as being a bad PPV draw need to chill out.He’s right. Condit-GSP is NOT a bigger draw than Condit-Ellenberger. They’ll both draw within 50k of each other in a 800k+ PPV buy comeback fight for GSP. It’s more ridiculous for you to think there is such a big difference.
The UFC will benefit a lot more by making Condit fight again. The difference between Condit-GSP and Ellenberger-GSP is far less than what the UFC loses with Condit-Ellenberger being put aside in favor of nothing.
by paythefighters on Feb 18, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t believe Ellenberger is at all a #1 contender for the interim belt, but I do get the arguments on timing, since Hendricks and Kos fight in May, and that the UFC may need this for an August main event.
Is rather see Condit vs Kos, and Hendricks vs Ellenberger, but I realization that could create a big mess and know it will never happen.
by Hardcharger on Feb 16, 2012 3:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I didn’t say he did; in fact, I said my preferred fights won’t happen because it could out Kos in title contention, and he doesn’t deserving a crack at GSP again. But he’s a tough fight for anyone else. Hendricks is better than Ellenberger, and more deserving. Is like to see one of those powerful wrestlers vs Ellenberger, because I think he wouldn’t get past those guys.
by Hardcharger on Feb 16, 2012 4:29 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
If Hendricks gets through Kos in May, then it would make perfect sense to match Condit up with Hendricks during the late summer months.
Imagine if GSP’s injury does heal like expected, then Condit could be sitting around for the best part of year, maybe more.
http://www.katana-clothing.com/
Please check us out on Facebook and follow us on Twitter
by @KatanaClothing on Feb 16, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think he should wait
It’s always better for guys to stay active.
Condit staying more active would only help him heading into his fight with GSP…it could be something like 5 months since Condit’s last fight and a year and a half since GSP’s last fight.
"Junior Dos Santos is next." - Alistair Overeem
I want to see Condit fight over the summer!
Whether it happens to be against Diaz (if his suspension is lifted), or Ellenberger, I don’t care. The whole point of making Condit Interim champ was so that the welterweight title wasn’t in-active for too long. To have Condit now sit on the shelf is pointless,
http://www.katana-clothing.com/
Please check us out on Facebook and follow us on Twitter
by @KatanaClothing on Feb 16, 2012 3:36 PM EST reply actions
Actually the point of the interim title was to add another storyline to the Diaz/Condit/GSP situation. The UFC plan was to have the interim champ fight GSP not defend it another time.
Yeah I agree.
It’s strange to think of the interim belt possibly being defended twice before GSP comes to unify them, if he even does. May just want a match with Diaz anyway. And if Carlos defends the interim belt twice then beats GSP, do we count 3 defenses? Or does he get fucked over again and have to redefend the “real” belt. This shit is silly.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Feb 16, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
Simple
While Condit waits for GSP have Ellenberger fight Kos/Hendricks winner for the Interim-Interim belt. That should clear things up.
Here's why Condit SHOULD NOT WAIT
This MMA not the NBA, NLB or the NFL. You really don’t know what will happen. You can get injured, your opponent can get injured and you can easily miss a fight (dollars). See Rashad Evans, wait, wait and wait. Evans could have fought Randy Couture but chose not too because the fight did nothing for him. Fortunately Machida and Rua saw the wisdom in facing a legend.
I can see Dan Henderson working a different schedule, but Condit should just fight. Let the UFC know, I’m not injured, let’s go and put on a show. The Fight Game is really, really, really short and brutal. Sieze the day, be Jon Jones.
(Now, I’m going to get corny)
Are you a rapper, “just keep rapping”. (See: Lil Wayne)
Are you an actor, take the movie. (See: Robert DeNiro, Samuel Jackson)
Are you a f*cking Fighter?!? (See: Julios Ceasar Chavez (I’m referring to the father!))
Are you fighting in the UFC and want to make money?? (See: Josh Koscheck)
Are you a film maker? (See: Roger Corman)
Are you a basketball player, keep shooting (see: Michael Jordan)
--------
"I still think I can win my title back, and I still think I can even win it back from Jon Jones" . . . Rampage before UFC 144
"When I watched it, it's like I became a fan of myself, too" - Frankie Edgar on UFC 136
by VeeisAnimated on Feb 16, 2012 3:38 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Jon Jones who didn't fight Rashad because of a finger injury he needed surgery for
that he didn’t get?
I agree that Condit should defend the title at least once. It would repair his image going into the St. Pierre fight. While I don’t buy any of it, people are now saying Condit is a point fighter, like GSP. If Fitch didn’t get floored by Hendricks I would’ve given him the shot bc it would be an easier fight for Condit to build his name off of. Unfortunately, Big Rig beat him to it.
As it is, there’s no one more fitting than Ellenberger for the shot. It’s a tough spot for Condit, who inked out a win over Ellenberger a while back. Ellenberger is a dangerous opponent who Condit already beat. Kampmann would be a better option, but he will only have won 2 in a row if he beats Alves (big IF). Alves is out for sure. Hendricks/ Kos won’t work due to timing.
Hey, I’ll give Jones a pass for the odd-questionable-mysterious finger-oops-thumb non-surgery. Who knows what really, really happened. Hey 2011 turned out pretty cool for young Jones. He finished the year with the walk-off home-run submission victory leaving Machida drop like a sack of potatoes. (OK, I’m obviously a fan)
people are now saying Condit is a point fighter
WHO THE FC*K is saying that!?! Let’s get him! I’m a Condit fan, I’ll forgive him for this one incident. He did what he had to do against a dangerous fighter. Condit past performances speak volumes. Not to mention his work in the WEC.
If Condit waits, and GSP gets injured again? What is Condit going to do? A rematch between Condit and Ellenberger will happen. If his training and the fight didn’t cause him damage, just fight.
--------
"I still think I can win my title back, and I still think I can even win it back from Jon Jones" . . . Rampage before UFC 144
"When I watched it, it's like I became a fan of myself, too" - Frankie Edgar on UFC 136
by VeeisAnimated on Feb 16, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, LET'S!
Carlos went against all his natural instinct and style in the Diaz fight, and fought with strict discipline and a gameplan for once in his life. To me that showed him clearly reaching another level as a fighter. Contrary to what people think, you’re not going to just mean mug GSP into standing and trading with you. It’s going to take strategy and discipline to beat him. Not to mention that if Carlos had just thrown all in against Nick, it would be fifty-fifty as to who won a brawl between them. Carlos just put the odds on his side.
I think Carlos needs to fight this summer. There is no guarantee Georges will be back by year’s end, and no guarantee that he doesn’t want to fight Nick Diaz when he returns. Carlos needs to ignore the interim baloney, treat it like the WW belt, and start defending it. Force guys to come to him, including GSP. I don’t see too many guys that can beat Carlos in a five round fight, so championship fights are right in his wheelhouse.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Feb 16, 2012 4:28 PM EST up reply actions
I think thats what he'll do
he agreed to rematch Diaz even though he thought he won. The Berger rematch will be awesome, especially for the title.
Looking at the last few years a guy like Rashad has had
Condit could be giving up good fights/money in what could be the prime of his career. Injuries/shit happens……fight while you are able.
condit can afford to weigh his options
see when gsp is able to return
if its not soon, then either diaz/jake
You must defeat me to stand a chance.
How about SCREW interim belts--They're stupid.
Ahhhhh, felt good to vent. Thanks BE.
I'm no Michael Bisping.
he isn't star-crossed lovers with GSP
how do all of these guys keep ending up in these bad bromances with each other?
he should act like GSP can’t come back until the middle of next year and prance around like the rightful welterweight champion of the woooorrrrlllld and defend it repeatedly. if he’s really so great then the unification bout will still be in the cards. if he’s not, tough shit.
A thousand years ago five minutes were
Equal to forty ounces of fine sand -- Nabokov
by mollcutpurse on Feb 16, 2012 4:08 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
'caught on a bad bromance'
ra ra, ra ra ra!
"Junior Dos Santos is next." - Alistair Overeem
by Chris Groves on Feb 16, 2012 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
His title shot is worth millions. If he loses, oh well he lost to one of the best fighters ever, but if he wins...
You guys are trippen. There is no way if I was Condit I would fight another fight before GSP. And against whom? Ellenberger? He already beat that dude even if it was close. No way. Wait Carlos. Wait.
by J_Maddux on Feb 16, 2012 4:30 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This
Condit has worked hard to get where he is and is on the brink of a title shot against the biggest PPV monster outside of Lesnar. You can see how much he wants this by the way he game-planned in the Diaz fight (which I’m fine with, by the way) and it would be so stupid to throw all that away.
I mean, he’s already had a title shot taken away from him so he’s got to be thinking that if he loses to Ellenberger then he loses that title shot too.
I’d hate to see him on the shelf for so long at this point in his career, but s an admitted Condit mark, I’d hate to see him lose the title shot even more.
Then whats the point of having a belt if you are not willing to defend it?
by discoandherpes on Feb 16, 2012 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
This.
Condit would have to fight Ellenberger again at some point ANYWAY. Better to do it while defending the title.
Then again, it might not matter since no one really thinks Condit is the proper champion.
Freelance Writer at PC World
Follow @KenTheGreat1
One Time, I Interviewed Dana White at UFC 86 & It Was Totally Cool
by McKinley B. Noble on Feb 17, 2012 1:05 AM EST up reply actions
Your missing the point. The fight with GSP is worth a lot more then defending it against Ellenberger.
Let Ellenberger get another win. Maybe he should fight the winner of KOS/Hendrick for the next number one contender while the title sorts its self out.
I agree
I thought the whole point of an interim champion is to not put the division on hold? If Condit holds out, then there is no point to having an interim title. They should have just called it a number one contenders bout.
by discoandherpes on Feb 17, 2012 2:31 AM EST up reply actions
Because it's a BS belt IMO.
Because it’s a BS belt IMO. The whole point of it is to unify it with the champ, not try to immediately defend it. Are we gonna have two linear championship fighters in weight classes now? I hope not.
The point of an interim belt
Is so that it can be defended while the original champion is out of commission. Noguiera didn’t hold out for a fight with Couture and Mir didn’t hold out for another fight with Lesnar. They defended the interim belt and united the titles when they could make the match up.
If GSP isn’t ready in November, you think Condit should put the whole division on hold until late 2012 to 2013? Slap yoself.
by discoandherpes on Feb 17, 2012 2:29 AM EST up reply actions
Plus I think Condit would like another paycheck if that is the case.
by discoandherpes on Feb 17, 2012 2:32 AM EST up reply actions
Condit vs Ellenberger would be the perfect main event for a FOX show
Both guys aren’t well know enough to be PPV draws, and they would gain huge exposure and built immense hype for an eventual fight with GSP.
Plus you know, both guys WAR!!
If I was Joe SIlva, I would make Condit vs Ellenberger the main event for UFC on FOX 3 in New Jersey, and bump Diaz vs Miller to the co-main event spot.
The card would look something like this:
Main Card
Carlos Condit vs Jake Ellenberger
Nate Diaz vs Jim Miller
Josh Koscheck vs Johny Hendricks
Alan Belcher vs Rousimar Palhares
Fuel Prelims
Pat Barry vs Lavar Johnson
Tony Ferguson vs Dennis Hallman
John Dodson vs Darren Uyenoyama
John Hathaway vs Pascal Krauss
Danny Castillo vs John Cholish
Facebook Prelims
Mike Massenzio vs Karlos Vemola
Louis Gaudinot vs John Lineker
now who wouldn’t tune in too see this card?
"They can grow beards all they want. Won’t rival mine no matter what they do." - Luke Thomas 2/1/2012
Nice idea - but with the UFC running 30+ events this year, this card seems too stacked for FOX.
Diaz is a legit main eventer, Kos Hendricks is a huge fight and some of the fuel prelims are strong enough to go on the main card of a Fox event – people like Pat Barry and Tony Ferguson
i think its about the same as the UFC on Fox 2 card, except with 4 fights on the main card instead of 3
Rashad, Chael, and Bisping are all bigger names than any fighter mentioned above, plus i don’t think there is such a thing as “too stacked”.
for comparison, this was the UFC on Fox 2 lineup:
Main Card
Rashad Evans vs Phil Davis
Chael Sonnen vs Michael Bisping
Damian Maia vs Chris Weidman
Fuel Prelims
Evan Dunham vs Nik Lentz
Mike Russow vs John Olav Einemo
Cub Swanson vs George Roop
Charles Oliveira vs Eric Wisely
Michael Johson vs Shane Roller
Joey Beltran vs Lavar Johnson
Facebook Prelims
Chris camozzi vs Dustin Jacoby
UFC on Fox 2 had 9 fighters ranked in the top 25 by sbnation
UFC on Fox 3 will have 8 fighters ranked in the top 25 by sbnation
They look pretty similar to me.
"They can grow beards all they want. Won’t rival mine no matter what they do." - Luke Thomas 2/1/2012
y u no like belcher ?
he is still getting his bearings in after his eye problem, lets feed bisping to paul harris instead.
Is that picture photoshopped?
I read somewhere… possibly here… that Condit didn’t land any real punches against Nick Diaz.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bloody Elbow
Related FanShots on Bloody Elbow
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
