UFC On Fuel TV Results: Winners, Losers, And Other Thoughts
by Matthew Roth on Feb 16, 2012 12:59 PM EST
in UFC Analysis
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Pardon the tardiness of this post, I am aware that it usually gets posted earlier in the day following a UFC or Strikeforce event. I had some computer issues last night entering the main event and was unable to do the write up as the show went off the air. Those issues have been resolved, at least temporarily, and that means I can bring you the biggest winners and losers of the first UFC on Fuel event.
WINNERS
Jake Ellenberger: Fighting in front of his hometown, Ellenberger came out like a man on fire and dominated Diego Sanchez for the first two rounds of the fight. Though Sanchez was able to come back in the third and make the fight a lot closer than it should have been, Ellenberger proved that he's one of the top welterweights in the division. Huge win and great performance.
Stefan Struve: He still hasn't figured out that he's a 6'11" fighter with a 84" reach but last night showed that Struve continues to improve in developing his punching power and stand up. He also looked to have filled out a bit more as well which will help him as he gets older. Not bad for a guy who turns 24 on Saturday.
Stipe Miocic: He allowed himself to get into early trouble by letting Phil de Fries land some powerful strikes but maintained his composure and was able to finish the Brit in under a minute. While his boxing credentials may be a bit overstated, he has crazy power and moves well for a heavyweight.
Ivan Menjivar: Like Miocic, Menjivar found himself in trouble early and was almost finished by John Albert. Menjivar was able to weather the storm and finish Albert with a rear naked choke. Gutsy performance from the veteran fighter.
Jonathan Brookins: Brookins continues to develop as a fighter against someone who I thought would give him trouble. The knockout was vicious and which was a result of Rocha leaving his face open while in an awful position. I don't know what Brookins ceiling is but it's higher than originally though.
The Omaha Crowd: 7,000 people in Omaha rivaled the crowds in both Toronto and Rio. While Dana White may have deemed Brazil the new (old) mecca of MMA, I think the locals in Omaha have an argument for best fans in the sport.
Losers and other thoughts after the jump...
SBN coverage of UFC on Fuel TV
LOSERS
Dave Herman: If you're gonna try and be the funny guy looking like a werewolf and coming out to 'Do you really want to hurt me', you have to go out and win in impressive fashion. He didn't do that. He looked like Cat Stevens and fought like Cat Stevens. I doubt he's given another shot. I hope this is the case since I hate terrible schtick.
Aaron Simpson and Ronny Markes: I'm grouping these two together because it took both of them to make for an absolutely horrible fight. The highlight was Simpson dropping marks with an uppercut in the first round. From there it was a myopic affair of clinch work against the fence.
Anton Kuivanen and Justin Salas: I understand they are both prospects so the expectations can never be the same had they been veterans. That being said, they fought a fight that wasn't memorable at all and the takeaway is that neither fighter is close to being UFC ready. Obviously they won't drop Salas but he's not as good as advertised.
Three Round Main Events: Are you serious, bro? Obviously not every fight will turn out to be Hendo/Shogun or Henderson/Guida, but there is no reason for a fight with title implications to be a three rounder. They'll be fighting for a championship sooner or later, why not allow them to get the experience of going five rounds?
OTHER THOUGHTS
- Diego Sanchez lost last night but he is in no way a loser. He brings the fight every time he enters the cage and shows a toughness that is rare in this sport. While he may never capture UFC gold, he'll be remembered as one of the most entertaining guys in the sport. As a fan I feel cheated because had that fight gone two more rounds I believe we'd be talking about Sanchez vs Condit for the interim belt. But such is life.
- T.J. Dillashaw has a ton of potential but a terrible fight IQ. He could have likely finished the fight if he didn't abandon his ground and pound to continuously look for the rear naked choke. He's still young and hopefully his coaches will go over the fight with him so he doesn't make the same mistakes again.
- I loved the commentary of John Anik and Kenny Florian. They have great chemistry together and weren't trying to oversell the action. This is key as people are tuning in to see the fights, not to be distracted by the commentary team.
- Brian Stann was absolutely incredible in the booth for the pre and post fight shows on Fuel TV. He was able to give great analysis of the fights that night as well as the upcoming fight between Rashad Evans and Jon Jones. I wouldn't mind if he became a permanent fixture for future Fuel coverage.
- The presentation of Fuel was great and the addition of statistics made MMA feel more like a 'legitimate' sport. Small additions like this can help change how people view MMA and will help grow the UFC product.
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i also love the stats on fuel
it would be even more useful for very close fights where it is not obvious if punches are landing, like sanchez/kampmann or rua/machida 1 (or garcia / kz 1). hope they keep it up!
since when was Sanchez/Kampmann a close fight?
it was a complete beat down by Martin and the biggest snub I had and have ever witnessed in my life.
"is my penis really small, or are my thighs just really big?"
Lil Nog-Brilz? Far far worse.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 16, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
Are you saying that was worse than Kampman?
by Afrotikiman on Feb 16, 2012 2:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Lil Nog vs Brilz was actually a close fight.
I didn’t see anything that was even remotely close in the Diego/Martin fight. it was a 30/27 fight that somehow went to the loser. Phan vs Garcia I was pretty awful too.
"is my penis really small, or are my thighs just really big?"
I scored Nog-Brilz for Nog actually.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 16, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Nope.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 16, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
are you being sarcastic?
that fight was scored 29-28 on fightmetric with round two being scored 152 – 139.
http://blog.fightmetric.com/2011/03/sanchez-vs-kampmann-official-ufc.html
hey man, you’re welcome to your opinion. but i still say it was close, under the 10-9 must system.
I don’t understand why everyone is outraged by Dave Herman’s body hair. He’s naturally that hairy. It’s not like he took some hair growth formula to intentionally look like that, get over it.
he dyed it?!
really?! Im very hairy…he trimmed it, it wasnt dyed brown. if it was brian wilson black, id entertain it, but you my kind sir are a moron! go ahead and ban me now for being right…errr, disagreeing!
So, you call someone a moron and dare them to ban you?
That’s like handing someone a gun and daring them to shoot you.
A writer looking for a new home.
Part of Team Luke Thomas' Beard (LTB)
The 209: Where we don't fight unless there's five guys on one, run away from the media, cry like babies when we lose decisions, and get finished by convicted sex offenders.
Follow @TheCynicsCorner
by MicahtheCynic on Feb 16, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
What? His manager tweeted photos of him with hair dye on his torso
by Matthew Roth on Feb 16, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
i dont know what a jag is
nor do i care if im banned
my bad, i didnt see that tweet, it just didnt look dyed to me and i thought u were busting us hairy guys balls
and cynic, ive done that, honestly, and didnt get shot, but he got his ass beat down… this was yrs ago, im too old now !! lol
Wow, damn. I thought it was weird how dark his hair was now, always thought it looked way lighter in his earlier fights.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight, what you saw, in the ring."
by Horselover Fat on Feb 16, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
Schtick works when you back it up
But doing things just to do them to try and get attention is retarded.
by Matthew Roth on Feb 16, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
If I had seen this tweet, id have tweeted back he’s a homo looking for attn…i know any press is good press, but…
I know you're new and likely didn't read the rules when you joined the site
Quit it with calling stuff homo or gay. There are other staff members who aren’t as understanding as myself. Consider this an unofficial warning.
by Matthew Roth on Feb 16, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
don't bother Roth
he is already gone
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
by T.P. Grant on Feb 16, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thank you.
Honestly, I feel like the quality of posters on this website has truly worsened, starting somewhere before the Diaz-Condit fight. But then again, maybe it is just me that is noticing this trend.
"Referees, be sure to step in and stop the fight on time tomorrow, because I might get carried away in the moment and my many punches may end up destroying my opponent." - Tatsuya "CRUSHER" Kawajiri
We've been doing crazy traffic the past few months
Which will lead to growth in community members. Some will be great and others will be kinda shitty.
by Matthew Roth on Feb 16, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
I think it's because of MMAFighting finally merging with sb
they brought their terrible commenters with them here.
When people come on here and act like that, I really have to wonder if that's how they act in real life.
The stuff people say sometimes is ridiculous. Despite me not revealing my name online, how I post here, and the things I say, I would actually say to people to their face. And it’s always with an underlying base of respect and manners. The internet is full of savages.
"You've got Floyd Mayweather making $25 million. He can't stop a double-leg..." Nick Diaz.
Your real name isn’t Pud?
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
No. It's actually Pudinsky. :)
"You've got Floyd Mayweather making $25 million. He can't stop a double-leg..." Nick Diaz.
Damn, was hoping for Pudzianowski..
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight, what you saw, in the ring."
by Horselover Fat on Feb 16, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
the first part of your last name means
pudding in polish.
"is my penis really small, or are my thighs just really big?"
Anonymity tends to do that to some people.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 16, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
That's why I put my name.
Gives me a bit of accountability.
"Computer being attacked by virus contracted from watching illegal japanese schoold girl porn. Bare with me." - Our Bovine Public
Captain of The Bus Feeders, Bloody Elbow Civil War, Season Two
agreed
"Junior Dos Santos is next." - Alistair Overeem
by Chris Groves on Feb 16, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
Conversely, I noticed the insufferable arrogance of many BE posters going through the roof around the time of Diaz Condit as well. That’s actually part of why I debated that fight so hard, I didn’t even disagree with the decision , but the dismissive “get away from me, just bleed plebe” attitude towards anyone who had any disagreeing thoughts was pretty obnoxious.
by Hutchy on Feb 16, 2012 2:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I've really noticed the same, here and other MMA sites
I just wonder if it’s a factor of growth in new fans due to exposure from the FOX/Fuel/FX cards, or it’s a crowd of people who are just really driven to post on the internet about Nick Diaz. I mean, regardless of your opinion of him, the dude provokes a lot of reaction…
Anyone who’s posting on sites like this is within a certain bubble of MMA fandom. I guess it’s natural that with growth in the sport the size and composition of that bubble will change.
No...the rules are common sense though
No racism/homophobia/religion/politics and don’t piss off the staff.
Basically the rule is don’t be stupid.
by Matthew Roth on Feb 16, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Funny to see someone with your username asking that question.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight, what you saw, in the ring."
by Horselover Fat on Feb 16, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
I just keep seeing comments on people not reading the rules or breaking rule number __. I know I didn’t read a rule list so I was just curious if there is a list.
Rule 7 – If you ask about the rules list, you have to hug Matt Roth.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
Its always rule number 4. Which is, don’t piss of the staff. It’s a good rule
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
Follow me on Twitter @chris81203
by Chris Hall on Feb 16, 2012 2:32 PM EST via Android app up reply actions
It is now that you're staff!
By the way, can I steal your old sig from John Danaher? It’s truly awesome.
"Maybe, you throw some pepper at him."
-Bas Rutten
"Somebody, track that one down, make warrior babies."
-Joe Rogan on Ronda Rousey
"Oh I can't drink my sake properly that motherf**ker. Ouch sh*t."
-Ryo Chonan
Yeah I get it, it’s a smart question, was just busting your balls a little.
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight, what you saw, in the ring."
by Horselover Fat on Feb 16, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
I think that’s part of the joke. There is no official rule list. Just be civil and use your common sense. If someone lacks common sense, they’ve got more serious problems than potentially getting banned from an MMA site.
"You've got Floyd Mayweather making $25 million. He can't stop a double-leg..." Nick Diaz.
I swear I remember seeing an official rule list when I signed up
Pretty sure i had to click that I “agreed” to them too.
Of course… that was years ago at this point. So I concede… my mind might be playing tricks on me.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Feb 16, 2012 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
that happens
‘specially when you’ve been listening to the Geto Boys.
Happens to me a lot.
I now have a signature statement. Behold!
by glib_mf on Feb 16, 2012 6:43 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
you brought it waaaaaay back right there
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Feb 16, 2012 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
You write here and are usually very respectful so Im sure it was just carelessness but..
I couldnt help but laugh at the utter hypocrisy of you calling a fighter a retard then warn the guy who responds.. only because i know you were just spouting…like when he said homo. Just crazy no one pointed this out…so i signed up w this dumb name to wait 24 hrs to laugh with you..not at you Roth… oh the ironing ;)
by Mike Ox Sofa King Thai Knee on Feb 17, 2012 10:13 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I don't think it's all that bad.
These guys tend to live pretty disciplined existences, and I think they should be free to take their amusement wherever they can find it.
I’m also surprised and find it a little hard to believe that you don’t think he’ll be brought back. He’s a 21-3 heavyweight who is 1-1 in the UFC division most in need of talent. I think he’ll get another shot.
SquishingMachine, now at HeadKickLegend.com
A bit hypocritical
For someone to call a behavior retarded and then warn a guy about using the word gay or homo. I get that one is attributed to a person and the other is not, but that isn’t how you worded it.
I walk across the dead train yard, remembering who we are.
by skateordie on Feb 16, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
exactly
I was just pointing out that the guy probably just loose with his words and meant no offense just as a figure of speech and was blind to that fact as was roth of his mistake until noted. Imo in this case maybe give a poster a chance to apologize if its unclear before whipping out the banhammer
by Mike Ox Sofa King Thai Knee on Feb 17, 2012 10:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Still though, who cares?
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 16, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
I thought Anik and Florian stunk it up last night
The Man in Black fled across the desert and the Gunslinger followed
by Art_Wanderlei on Feb 16, 2012 1:08 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
The was a player from the Patriots in the audience and Anik was like
“It sure didn’t go his way days back out in Indianapolis!!”
I was like damn lol that was unnecessary, at least say he put up a good effort something with a positive spin.
"When you believe in something and you're a good person...things happen" - Junior Dos Santos
u mean danny woodhead?
i dont even have fuel!!!
People always complain
I thought they did a better job than every single non-UFC commentary team I’ve ever heard in my life.
I don’t really understand all the criticism of Anik and Florian, or Goldie and Joe. I have yet to hear an MMA commentary team where I think they would do half as good as the current UFC teams.
Quit complaining for the sake of complaining. I get it, there’s nits to be picked, but you say they “stunk it up”, who would do better?
not nostalgia, my man
wasn’t into mma back then, only started watching pride last year
i’m just a bas mark and his better moments stick with me
“NOOOOOO, WHYYYY DID HE DOOO IIIIIIITT!!!!”
I liked Brookins awesome walk out song, M83 Midnight City, then he delivered an impressive KO
"When you believe in something and you're a good person...things happen" - Junior Dos Santos
Is that what that was?
My brother is obsessed with that band (?). See that he’s listening to them on Spotify constantly.
Nate (after a spinning elbow by Carlos at 1:58): Fuckin’ dick!
by Charles Awad on Feb 16, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
Yup.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 16, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Best walk out song of recent memory.
"Computer being attacked by virus contracted from watching illegal japanese schoold girl porn. Bare with me." - Our Bovine Public
Captain of The Bus Feeders, Bloody Elbow Civil War, Season Two
That is an incredibly catchy track that
Proper good old fashioned synth pop that. good stuff.
Id like to see a immediate rematch between diego and jake for 5 rounds. If condit is waiting for gsp why not since it should have been a 5 round fight.
Filipino Reccing Machines
by mlzybaby on Feb 16, 2012 1:16 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I wish florian could replace goldberg.
by thuggis on Feb 16, 2012 1:17 PM EST via mobile reply actions
T.J. Dillashaw has a ton of potential but a terrible fight IQ. He could have likely finished the fight if he didn’t abandon his ground and pound to continuously look for the rear naked choke.
I didn’t have an issue with him going for the choke but he was clearly swinging his arm in front of Watson when he tried to slip the hand behind the head. At that point either switch back to GNP or a gabble grip RNC. down the road I’d hope someone shows him the right way to slip the hand, it can be tricky with gloves but isn’t terribly hard.
show ’em how its done Roger
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
by T.P. Grant on Feb 16, 2012 1:18 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Gracie
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by the fight, what you saw, in the ring."
by Horselover Fat on Feb 16, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
I know!
the way he slips the hands is so damn perfect, Randleman never had a chance to stop the choke.
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
Like a snake. Roger needs to stick to fighting opponents without good striking. He is a master at work.
"Referees, be sure to step in and stop the fight on time tomorrow, because I might get carried away in the moment and my many punches may end up destroying my opponent." - Tatsuya "CRUSHER" Kawajiri
what’s crazy is technically this is a bad rnc but roger still finishes it like a champ… that guy is too good
it’s ideal to line the elbow ub with the chin, this allows you to scissor your arm and crush the arteries, this choke is directed more like a guilltine due to elbow placement
gotta love roger xD
by ShogunDaChamp on Feb 16, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't consider it technically bad.
Having the forearm under the chin hurts like fuck and chokes the guy too. I learned it in Judo as a variation of the RNC (hadaka jime in judo).
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 16, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
oh yeah sorry, didnt mean to disrespect roger’s technique as what he is doing is a valid choke but when u get the elbow in front of the chin, it allows the most pressure on the arteries. So a skinny chick with no muscle can even finish ;)
by ShogunDaChamp on Feb 16, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
yeah i dont understand why more people dont crossface in mma.
if anyone watched pro wrestling, chris benoit use to do a crossface and that shit actually hurts when done properly done in mma. it wont finish a guy but it hurts enough where you’ll move your head up to ease the pain as you slip youre forearm across the dudes neck for a rnc.
"is my penis really small, or are my thighs just really big?"
yeah i didnt mean it that way, he’s a fuckin grappling god, im not stupid
by ShogunDaChamp on Feb 16, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
he did it right, i just meant u can get more pressure other ways but u go with what the situation presents, so he displayed jiu jitsu perfectly imo, nut had he been able to get better placement, he would have put randleman to sleep a split second faster
by ShogunDaChamp on Feb 16, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
actually
gentle way broke that choke down once, it is a variation that he has notice Roger and Marcelo doing where he doesn’t get the elbow under the chin and separates the elbows and it is crazy effective. Randleman was already out at the end of this gif.
it was really interesting, maybe gentle will explain it again.
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
Gable grip, btw
It’s named after him.
"If there's a new way, I'll be the first in line. But it better work this time." - Dave Mustaine.
Proud member of Trainyard Sleepers, BECW: S2
thanks
typo
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
I thought Albert had a good showing too.
"Never say anything that doesn't improve on silence." -Richard Yates
Proud Member of "The Voices In Paul Harris' Head." The handsomest cyber-team on the inter webs.
He did. It's why he's not on the losers list.
by Matthew Roth on Feb 16, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions
In my book, not being included on a list of losers is the highest form of praise.
And I’m a little worried they threw him in too heavy too early. He might actually have something to offer the division.
"Never say anything that doesn't improve on silence." -Richard Yates
Proud Member of "The Voices In Paul Harris' Head." The handsomest cyber-team on the inter webs.
My thoughts exactly
I wouldn’t mind seeing Albert fight someone like Jeff Curran..a gritty veteran with decent hands and good jiujitsu would be a more than adequate litmus test him.
Recent Acquisition of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
Did you hit him in the bean bag? There's no shame in attacking a criminal's bean bag
Herman needs some hate for shitting on jiu jitsu and then trying first day white belt escapes from under mount. Knowing basic escape techniques from the bottom is paramount, and basic wrestling knowledge doesn’t help there. Unprofessional . . . I mean beyond the dyed hair thing.
Ranked #2 P4P Best BloodyElbow User Name
by Medium Nog on Feb 16, 2012 1:26 PM EST via mobile reply actions
If he had worked on his BJJ, he might’ve had an answer for the mount position. It is truly sad in this day and age to see an MMA fighter in the UFC who neglects BJJ.
"Referees, be sure to step in and stop the fight on time tomorrow, because I might get carried away in the moment and my many punches may end up destroying my opponent." - Tatsuya "CRUSHER" Kawajiri
he had an answer
give up his back and sneak out the back door. It worked the first time, but I don’t think he had the energy (or was too rocked) to do it the second time.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Feb 16, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions
giving up your back
is a real risky way of getting out of mount. It might work once, but to count on it several times isn’t a good idea.
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
I'll defer to your BJJ knowledge
you are right, and it seems really risky even to my eye. But is it riskier than doing nothing? And Struve’s dimensions appeared (to my untrained eye) to lend themselves to poor back control… riding high… and allowing people to sneak out the back door. As in, when Herman escaped the mount the first time, he gave up his back, put his hips in the air, and Struve just fell off.
On a tangent, I lol’d many a time during Nelson-Mir, because that was Nelson’s answer whenever Frank mounted him. He’d give up his back, and just stand up. He was so fat Mir couldn’t put his hooks in and always just fell off his back. I really enjoyed Nelson’s “fat man” back mount defense. People say Nelson should drop to 205, but his gut is like his third best fighting attribute.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Feb 16, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
nothing isn’t a good idea but there are much more basic escapes from mount that don’t expose your back and that when done correctly are pretty hard to stop.
but I think your right about Struve and his dimensions leading to poor back control. If I thought Herman had gameplanned to that degree I wouldn’t have a problem with his giving up his back, but its Herman…
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
back in pride akira shoji
used it many times to repeatedly escape from the back mount of a gracie.
unorthodox, but it can be very, very effective especially without a gi (and if someone practices it).
not saying there aren't guys who can't make it work
but it isn’t a great idea unless you are a straight up master at getting out of back control and even then it is a calculated risk
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
i agree it's definitely not the most optimal escape
but it isn’t a death sentence like it is in bjj.
yeah having your back taken in gi sucks
all those collar chokes… yeah I think your right I had a BJJ reaction more than an MMA reaction. The lack of gi and the rules that really limit offensive options make the back more survivable in some ways than the mount
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
yup. my highest percentage sub:
not that hard to catch, and once it’s locked in it’s over. i got caught with it a couple years ago and since then have made it my own. :)
oh yes the bow and arrow choke
a personal favorite of mine also
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
he is from team quest, what do we expect?
portions of that team have always slacked on their BJJ.
Couture had nothing for Nog on the mat, Sonnen and his allergy to triangles, Hendo has zero game off his back.
Lindlad is the best grappler of the bunch but he still gets tapped by elite grapplers. A few of them that worked with Vinny when he was with team quest got their grappling to a good level, but still mostly a wrestling gym.
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
couture
beat off a Nog Anaconda Choke, if memory serves.
The strong do as they can and the weak suffer what they must.
Nog was also able to sweep Couture
by rolling him over with the guard.
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
Couture wasn't a bad grappler
At least not to the point that you’re saying. A lot of guys would get swept by Nog. I don’t see that as a knock against his skills.
by Matthew Roth on Feb 16, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
no he wasn't a bad grappler
but he slacked on his BJJ training. He liked working catch wrestling because it lined up more with his wrestling skill set. they’ve always been good grapplers but they aren’t the most well rounded because they slack on BJJ training.
and they joke about, remember this?
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
by T.P. Grant on Feb 16, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
also quick note
by slacking what I really mean is they do train BJJ, but how often do you think they train from their backs? do they ever pull guard in practice?
I don’t know but judging how Henderson, Couture, Herman and the rest look on their backs in fights against good grapplers, I’d say not every often.
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
some of the Team Quest guys can roll quite well
Vinny was a coach there for a while and got some of them pretty good
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
Catch wrestling and No Gi BJJ are the same shit really
All effective grapplings arts have a ton of similarities.
by discoandherpes on Feb 17, 2012 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
As the site's grappling expert . . .
Have you ever seen that stupid leg-thing work, ever? As long as you have a decent base, even someone as flexible as bj penn couldn’t get his legs far enough up to unbalance the guy on top.
Ranked #2 P4P Best BloodyElbow User Name
I didn't understand why he wouldn't try and buck up and hip escape
Was honestly getting mad at it.
by Matthew Roth on Feb 16, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Well, like he said, BJJ doesn’t work anymore. There’s no need to learn basic white-belt mount escapes.
"Referees, be sure to step in and stop the fight on time tomorrow, because I might get carried away in the moment and my many punches may end up destroying my opponent." - Tatsuya "CRUSHER" Kawajiri
Compared to just getting punched in the face
I figured that at least trying to shrimp your hips would be a good idea.
by Matthew Roth on Feb 16, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
how often do you think he trains from off his back?
and from that how often do you think he gets mounted?
I bet he drills standing back up from different position and that his mount escape is most based on hulking guys, which doesn’t work against better guys or guys his size. Same reason why his teammate Henderson can’t get out of mount, he doesn’t train for it.
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
Not sure if my memory is correct on this...
But didn’t Mayhem escape from Jake Shields’ mount by doing it? I haven’t seen that fight in a while (for good reason), so I might have just made that up.
I cant check now ‘cause I’m on my phone, but didn’t Anderson escape Travis Lutter’s mount that way?
"You know, these guys want to talk about God. 'Oh, I want to thank God. I want to thank God.' Listen, I'm a God-fearing man, go to church every Sunday and have since I was a boy. But if I ever found out that God cared one way or another about a borderline illegal fist-fight on Saturday night, I would be so greatly disappointed that it would make rethink my entire belief system." ~ Chael Sonnen.
by VenusBlue on Feb 16, 2012 3:21 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
first of all Pat, Ben and KJ are all more experience grapplers than me (full disclosure)
I’ve been showed that escape before, but told it is low % escape and should be at best a third option for ways out of mount.
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
i've seen it work decently enough in straight grappling.
in mma, a handful of times. it’s a good recipe to get punched in the face.
hang on, hang on
hendo has spent a fair amount of time on his back against the highest quality of opponents and has only been submitted three times, so to say that he has no game is pretty unfair.
Couture was able to reverse Nog late in the fight
Nog didn’t run game on Couture.
by discoandherpes on Feb 17, 2012 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
!
You see, in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. You dig.
by Tats16 on Feb 16, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Diego should be a loser
for everything he did before (see above) and after the fight…
crying about Jesus and his broken ankles after doing the whole “are you not entertained!?” bit… left me with a bad taste after a good fight
is he getting publicity advise from Tito?
i dont know man, these guys have rough schedules and i think he deserves to say when he feels he can do better. If you were a competitor u have to relaize a loss eats away at your brain and he wont get a chance to fix that for another 3 months so the next 3 months for diego will suck, i feel for these guys when they lose, have a heart man
by ShogunDaChamp on Feb 16, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
i feel for him for sure
i thought he fought a great fight, win or lose. i just don’t like how he handles himself. it doesn’t mean i don’t have a heart.
“crying” was a bit of a stretch on my part. but i think for him to realize that he got beat because he has some significant holes and that he needs to make adjustments rather than thinking “well, i gave it my all, i entertained, and plus i was injured” would benefit him extremely going forward.
yeah ok i respect that, i mean in a way it is disrespectful to discredit someone’s win in anyway but i think he said it to show people he can be better, not necesarily to discredit jake, im sure if u ask diego about jake you will hear nothing but praise :)
by ShogunDaChamp on Feb 16, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions
didn't like his postfight either
but i thought him talking about how wild the fight was was just to get the crowd hype, not to whine about their reaction
i think so too
which is fine. what i didn’t like is a) he followed it up by talking about his ankle sprain and b) he was calling it the “real dogfight” like Condit/ Diaz was boring or something.
agree with a)
but i heard no emphasis on “real” – i think he was just saying it was a badass fight, not comparing it to anything
he did before the fight though, which is why i made the connection
in a prefight interview he said Condit/Diaz promised a dogfight but it wasn’t. he said he would deliver the real dogfight fans wanted to see.
i thought both fights were great and both should’ve been 5 rounds
ah
wouldn’t have called either a real dogfight
it was a good fight though
menjivar-albert was the real dogfight of that night
agreed
i was very surprised that Albert wilted like that. he almost had the tko. that was escalating into a real war before he sorta just gave up his back. idk if it was a tactical error or a mental lapse or what. either way, really fun fight to watch.
yeah, albert totally quit on the ground
thought the fight should have been stopped when menjivar was taking that beating, he looked done soon after the headkick
glad it didn’t
i think this was fuckin epic. Diego about to fight satan or a vampire…i love him so much, he is awesome!! :D
by ShogunDaChamp on Feb 16, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Diego is just a different breed of crazy.
"You've got Floyd Mayweather making $25 million. He can't stop a double-leg..." Nick Diaz.
Florian was horrible
And was way more excited than what Rogan is hated for. Comparing Ellenberger to Anderson? There were so much shitty announcing from him that entire night, and in the main event it was almost like he’s still angry about that TUF 1 fight.
That was a mistake, for sure, but I thought he was pretty solid throughout the night. They sounded like a professional commentating team, focused on the fight rather than inputting personal opinions and going off on tangents.
"Referees, be sure to step in and stop the fight on time tomorrow, because I might get carried away in the moment and my many punches may end up destroying my opponent." - Tatsuya "CRUSHER" Kawajiri
I thought they sounded like pros
A welcome contrast to Goldie and Rogan and light years ahead of the Strikeforce team
He also...
compared pat Barry to Mike Tyson, at UFC on FX. Repeatedly.
I’m a big fan of his studio analysis, but his play by play has gotten worse over the years.
Reppin' the 202 for The Voice's in Paul Harris' Head. BECW Season 12.
http://danieljamesmillerfoundation.wordpress.com/how-to-donate/
I've never been a fan of Kenny doing play by play.
He’s very good doing analysis in studio as you said but I don’t think he should call the fights.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 16, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
i think florian is commentating gold, along with Stann, that guy is pretty articulate…did i use that word right?? lol
by ShogunDaChamp on Feb 16, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
The commentating team was horrible.
Just based on the main event fight: they called Diego ‘Jacob Sanchez’ at some point and miscalled several things (‘that right hand missed’ when it clearly landed and ‘he might’ve caught sanchez here’ when ellenberger was using a footsweep.
It seemed like they were trying to make it exciting without knowing a whole lot.
Go big red!
He wasn't saying "Jacob" Sanchez
That’s just how Kenny pronounces “Diego,” squishing the “di” and “e” sounds together so that it sounds like “jay.”
by James Kimbell on Feb 16, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
i would actually say the Omaha crowd is a loser for their no class booing of a warrior thet endured tough times to put on that awesome display. Everyone thinks it is an excuse to talk about injuries. I repect Diego and dont think he is the type to try and steal the limelight form the winning fighter. I believe he was sincere in his post fight presser and for him to ask the crowd “to take it easy” pissed me the fuck off
I don’t think Ellenberger had a great performance at all. He is a too WW, but gassed again in a fight that had a slow pace for 2 rounds where he didn’t have to fight off any takedowns and didn’t have a lot of output on the feet. Getting beat up while back mounted for the last minute of the fight isn’t the best way to end a performance.
Ok, that Diego gif with the cross is awesomeness.
by Hardcharger on Feb 16, 2012 2:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions
agreed, im guessing he gassed towards the end and not sure what would have happend in a 5 round fight, i would say diego would have took it, diego wasnt even breathing after that fight
by ShogunDaChamp on Feb 16, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
"The Omaha Crowd: 7,000 people in Omaha rivaled the crowds in both Toronto and Rio. While Dana White may have deemed Brazil the new (old) mecca of MMA, I think the locals in Omaha have an argument for best fans in the sport."
I think we know where Whitney’s coke has gone to.
Bloody Elbow Grappling Editor.
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by KJ Gould on Feb 16, 2012 2:53 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
they were a hot crowd
but they were no Michael Bisping
by Thats It For you! on Feb 16, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
I only came in this thread to make a similar comment.
Well, looks like my job is done…by someone else…
"The person who takes a dump on you isn't always your enemy, and the person who takes you out of the dump isn't always your friend."
Miocic has shown almost no improvement from his NAAFS days. I thought his fight was a disaster, even though he won. Getting clobbered by gorilla style overhand arm punches right off the bat is a pretty horrible indictment of his defense.
he probably was starting too relaxed and it woke him up, the way he puched that guy and how the dude slammed into the fence 3 feet away was impressive
by ShogunDaChamp on Feb 16, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
His defense looked piss poor
And those lunging strikes would invite a lot of more qualified heavyweights to put him to sleep, but I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt on account of getting stung early (presumably starting the fight out cocky, knowing De Fries is a grappler), and that he works on his posture before his next go.
Nate (after a spinning elbow by Carlos at 1:58): Fuckin’ dick!
by Charles Awad on Feb 16, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, he even said afterwards he should have had his hands up. Probably just got lazy about it. We’ll see what happens next time. But those wild swinging arm punches De Fries were hilarious. I believe my reaction upon seeing those punches were, “Are you fucking kidding me?” It was more hilarious because they actually landed.
"You've got Floyd Mayweather making $25 million. He can't stop a double-leg..." Nick Diaz.
Walel Watson is not on the losers list?
That was one of the worst performances of a UFC fighter, i mean, 1 punch landen in 2 rounds? TJ looked awesome of course, but Watson looked absolutely atrocious too.
by Immortal_JL on Feb 16, 2012 4:46 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
“I loved the commentary of John Anik and Kenny Florian. They have great chemistry together and weren’t trying to oversell the action. This is key as people are tuning in to see the fights, not to be distracted by the commentary team.”
You’ve been hating on Rogan/Goldberg on several of your recent winners/losers Fowlkes inspired articles, but this is too much. I’m inferring that you prefer the new team based on these comments, which… is just short of after last night’s broadcasting performance.
Florian can be a little tongue- tied at times,
but he’s a smart guy, and I agree that they have good synergy.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 16, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
I like both Anik and Florian very much, but I don’t think last night was a good example of that. IMO, they were both guilty of laying on the rhetoric pretty thick on a fairly frequent basis and neither of them seemed as comfortable as they’ve been in the past.
Idk really.
I don’t even pay that much attention to the commentators. I honestly have never had a problem with Rogan, Florian, Mir, or Anik. Goldberg is the ad man, and occasionally says shit that’s either stupid or really obvious, but I don’t even have a problem with him.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 16, 2012 11:53 PM EST up reply actions
The Simpson Markes fight wasn't that bad....
We have seen far worse fights including a recent main event of a PPV I wont name here because everyone is sick of hearing about it. Simpson dropped Markes and he hung in there and won the fight he landed some nice leg kicks and he shouldn’t be a loser all Simpson did was try to take him down and got himself taken down in the process its not Markes’ fault Simpson cage humped him the whole fight.
Diego Sanchez is a loser...
btw for the entracne with the cross and his post fight comments. You talk about schtick there is no worse schtick then being a bible thumper seriously wtf was with the cross thing? Sure he brings it every time but he hasn’t evolved since 2007 and shows no willingness to the ultimate gate keeper.
by nickrodamous on Feb 16, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
You talk about schtick there is no worse schtick then being a bible thumper
That’s not a shtick. That’s who Diego is. It is not an act.
So he is just a giant douche?
Thank you for clearing that up.
by nickrodamous on Feb 16, 2012 7:11 PM EST up reply actions
He's a douche for finding religion after an extremely dark time in his life
where a friend stole 200k from him and he was drinking heavily every night?
by Matthew Roth on Feb 16, 2012 8:06 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Not to mention raising a kid that wasn't his
Right leg swelling, Left leg minor bruising
by Well Read Idiot on Feb 17, 2012 10:01 PM EST up reply actions
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