UFC On Fuel TV: Dave Herman Finds His Limit Against Stefan Struve
by Nate Wilcox on Feb 16, 2012 3:14 PM EST
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UFC heavyweight Dave "Pee Wee" Herman has long been known as one of MMA's biggest underachievers. He made no secret of the fact that he didn't bother with training for the first three years of his MMA career. He got himself into a legal mess with Bellator that held up his career for two full years and he failed a drug test for marijuana that cancelled his UFC bout with Mike Russow. Despite all this, he managed to go 21-2 in his first 23 fights -- and one of those losses was a DQ for throwing illegal knees.
But against Stefan Struve on UFC on Fuel TV in Omaha, NE last night Herman found out there is a limit to how far he can get on physical abilities and confidence alone. He dominated Struve in the early parts of the fight, using his speed and athleticism to get off first and outstrike the gangly Dutchman.
But when Herman let the fight degenerate into a brawl in the second round he found that he had met his match. Struve was able to survive Herman's early blitz and when the donnybrook started, Struve outstruck Herman and put him on the ground where he got the finish.
It's time for Dave Herman to get serious about MMA. He might want to consider cutting weight and moving down to light heavyweight. As a 230lb heavyweight Herman is giving up a lot of size and he's no bigger than many of the LHW division's top fighters. It's an amazing feat to make it to the mid-tier of the UFC heavyweight division while coasting on sheer ability and balls, but if Herman wants to make something real out of his career, he's going to have to bear down and start working hard.
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Herman could be a stud at 205.
Could definitely see him being a top 10 fighter if he buckles down.
Tom Brady. Nuff said.
sigh
why do people always think that moving down a weight class suddenly makes you a more talented fighter? as stated in the article, he wouldn’t even have size advantage on many of his opponents at 205 and he would still be lacking the skills needed for competing at the top.
I say stay at HW so that we at least have one HW gatekeeper who doesn’t gas in 2 minutes
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by the guy with the big nose on Feb 16, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah… cause everyone always thinks that. That’s like me saying “why is everyone around here a douche”, when I’m really only referencing one specific case… Dropping weight is just short of a running joke around here. However, sometimes it makes sense and sometimes it doesn’t.
In this case, it does, IMO.
It’s generally a mistake for a slow fighter to drop weight classes, but athleticism has always been one of Herman’s strengths. He’s also fighting at HW, which covers 300% of the weight of the next widest weight division (185-205, 20 lbs… HW covers 60 lbs). He’s also in the lower half of the weight division.
He’s also known for not having sophisticated training. He either needs to put on about 10 lbs of muscle to get into the JDS range, or he needs to get about 5-10 lbs leaner and try the cut. With his frame, he should be able to swing either direction without too much trouble, but staying around in no man’s land isn’t doing him any favors… unless he suddenly develops a world class greco-roman clinch game to help him control opponents.
I see Kid Nate is of the believe that....
Lose one and fighter x needs to drop in weight, lose 2 in a row it’s time to retire.
by malo on Feb 16, 2012 5:27 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
There’s nothing wrong being in the lower half of the division. JDS and Velasquez have shown that a Heavyweight does not have to be 265 lbs or close to that to be a UFC Heavyweight Champion. Also, Heavyweight is just a much more shallow division, and Herman didn’t necessarily look small against Struve as Herman is already tall and lean at Heavyweight. It really just comes down to training more than anything else. The weight doesn’t seem to be much of a factor but moreso his lack of training as shown with the fact that he didn’t seem to know how to properly get out of the mount position.
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They are both in the top half… They aren’t as big, but they both have 10-20 lbs on Herman… which is a big difference and I said he could swing that way as well. It’s harder to get out of mount when the guy on top of you is much bigger (Fedor/Silva), typically Herman is good at scrambling… I’m not saying he should drop down, but I am saying that if he does not drop down, he should add at least 5-10 lbs to his frame.
Why would he want to fight better fighters that can match his athletism and are more skilled?
by discoandherpes on Feb 17, 2012 5:20 AM EST up reply actions
no
The talent curve would get him cut from the UFC
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by halitosis on Feb 16, 2012 4:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I agree here.
Not sure if he even needs to drop to 205 (although if he can make it comfortably, why not?). But like you said, he didn’t train like an elite fighter. I remember him saying in an interview that basically all his workouts consisted of were wailing on the heavy bag and sparring.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
Couldn't all that sparring be bad for his durability or brain?
Someone blamed James Toney’s speech problems on him just sparring too much instead of doing other forms of training.
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by RolloTomasi on Feb 16, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Herman simply doesn't give a fuck.
He’s tough, a talented guy, and generally is in shape. But he doesn’t train like an evolved fighter.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 16, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
seriously
hes got all kinds of talents and all he needs to do is dedicating to the sport and he will never do it.
same shit happened to him against mu bae choi; control the first round and then gas out to get beat up in 2nd round. and he wont change
i doubt that he will ever change, but once he does, he will be a serious prospect
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I think he's better off in the HW division
His skills won’t get him near the top 10 even if he manages to makes 205. He’s already lean, he could put a few pounds of muscle and use his speed advantage in the thinner HW division.
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not sure if herman can really make 205.
hes 6’5 after all. He looked almost normal standing with Struve. I think he needs to put on some size, like 10-15 pounds in the next year or so, and stay at HW. competition at 205 is much stiffer and Herman has negative ground game.
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Yep, I agree.
Herman could do with adding a few pounds of muscle – I think his frame is too large for light-heavyweight. The size difference against Struve wasn’t that drastic at all.
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by @KatanaClothing on Feb 16, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
He can make 205
If Jones and Forrest can make 205, so can Herman. I think Herman is fine at HW, he just needs to trane UFC.
by AngryTwinkie on Feb 16, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
Herman could be a contender, for sure.
I remember watching him back in his Pro Elite days. He was knocking dudes out left, right and centre. Admittedly there were no big names on that list of oponents, but Herman was training MMA by himself in his garage – just a heavy bag and a weights bench. If he can get this far on natural talent and confidence alone, imagine what he could do if he started taking this MMA thing seriously.
I like Herman, he always comes to fight, and I hope he manages to get his fight career back on track and achieve what he’s capable of.
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by @KatanaClothing on Feb 16, 2012 3:30 PM EST reply actions
He just needs to be serious about training, don't drop down
HW is shallow enough to where he could really make waves with minimal improvement.
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I think he's fine at Heavyweight
He just looks small compared to Struve, but Struve is starting to fill out and he towers over everyone. JDS is 239 and he’s fine there.
I'd rather he bulk up than trim down
He’s tall and lean. Herman has always been more talented than he gets credit for, but he’s always been a big time oddball. If he would get serious about training, he’d be a force at heavyweight. He’s gotta stop getting high and making scarves, and dying his body hair, and concentrate on fighting.
Nate (after a spinning elbow by Carlos at 1:58): Fuckin’ dick!
He looked faded in the second round, Struve was kind of walking him down, as opposed to the first round.
Still, one look a the guy and you see that he’s extremely athletic and talented. Hopefully that training at Team Quest will serve him well.
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“He got himself into a legal mess with Bellator that held up his career for two full years.”
I’m confused by this; he fought at Bellator 31 on Sept. 30, 2010 (he fought before that for ADFC on May 14, 2010), then fought at Soul of Fight on Dec. 30, 2010, then made his UFC debut on June 11, 2011. How was his career held up?
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If he wasn’t so arrogant and ignorant and made the decision to learn some BJJ, maybe he would’ve known how to escape mount. Sorry if this is fighter bashing, but he’s insulted the art of BJJ, calling it a bunch of “tricks” and that “it doesn’t work.”
we can’t be too sure if Herman meant that or if he’s just trolling. it’s insulting, but he’s entitled to say ignorant things like that even if i find it disrespectful to my favorite art.
personally, i’m leaning on him saying that just to fuck with people.
either way, he needs to evolve his game overall.
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by Victor Rodriguez on Feb 16, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
his mount escape is sub white belt.
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by the-gentle-way on Feb 16, 2012 6:02 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
He could really martket himself as a Wolverine look-alike
except for the height and the CLAWS OF COURSE. It would be some ingenious self promotion though.
If he wants to make it big in the UFC, he will need to start taking training all aspects more seriously. Close up the gaping holes, sharpen his strengths. I would suggest he put on on 10 lbs of more lean muscle with a good S&C program rather than go down to LHW. He’ll stay fairly quick among many lumbering HWs and he’ll be able to make it farther up in the division because of divisions lack of major depth.
he’d make a great Sabretooth, that’s for sure.
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by Victor Rodriguez on Feb 16, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
wow is that all he needs to do? why are people talking like its easy
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Herman would be a top 5 if he gets with a good camp, get better cardio and cuts to featherweight.
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by ekc on Feb 16, 2012 4:51 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Alright, that was hilarious
Nate (after a spinning elbow by Carlos at 1:58): Fuckin’ dick!
by Charles Awad on Feb 16, 2012 5:19 PM EST up reply actions
but if Herman wants to make something real out of his career, he's going to have to BEAR down and start working hard.
Oh BEAR down I get it, funny man
Lots of LHW balloon up to 230 or higher between fights, and even a few MWs, but 230 lbs. is a really high training weight for a LHW and Herman has a 6’5" frame and not a lot of body fat. Jones twitpic’d himself weighing in at 219 during training. Rashad says he trains at 215-220. Ditto Machida. Even Rampage gets down to 220 in training. Hendo barely cuts anything at LHW. Forrest Griffin is the only top guy I can think of who might be higher at 230+ 10 days out from a fight. Not to mention that HW is the less competitive division. I’m not saying Jon Jones could beat JDS or Overeem, but the upper echelon of the LHW division is still a shark tank, and he’d have to lose some muscle before he even jumps into that shark tank. HW is still a lot shallower and Herman could at least sit in the middle of the pack in the UFC for quite a while even if he didn’t seriously work on his game and gameplanning.
I really couldn't believe he lost.
I thought he was going to KO Struve bad.
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