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Predicting A Collegiate Wrestler’s Development

We’ve all heard Joe Rogan say it over and over (and over) again: Wrestling is the best base for MMA. By the sheer numbers of top level fighters that were previously top level wrestlers, this seems to be the case. As professional MMA is becoming a more attractive option for top collegiate wrestlers, I think we can see trend of how these All-Americans develop into mixed martial artists.

Generally speaking (of course, there’s always outliers), we’re seeing wrestlers go down one of two paths of development as fighters, and which path they choose can be predicted by looking at their wrestling style. Top level wrestlers, at least for the first several years into fighting, tend to develop either their striking, throwing powerful punches that knockout their foe, or their jiu jitsu, using their already strong takedowns to submit opponents. "Duh," you might be thinking. Of course fighters develop striking or jiu jitsu. The key is, though, that I think whichever path the wrestler chooses depends on their wrestling style. The best way to explain my point is with real examples. A few videos after the jump…

Star-divide

STRIKERS

A top level collegiate wrestler that develops his striking before his grappling is generally an (yes, I hate to say it) explosive-style wrestler. Perhaps the quintessential wrestler-striker is Josh Koscheck. Obviously, early in his career, Josh relied very heavily on his wrestling alone, but clearly he has opted for strengthening his standup instead of relying on his takedowns and submissions. This isn’t to say he’s an amazing striker, just that he favors striking.

If we look at Josh’s wrestling style, we notice that it relies heavily on explosive, fast-twitch muscle moves. Wrestlers like this prefer power double-legs over low single-legs. I’m not saying they’re not technical, but their wrestling style utilizes explosive, powerful techniques. For an example of this, see the video below. Around 1:55 Josh tries a power double (that should look familiar). Instead of switching to a lower single-leg or a high-crotch, Josh opts to try to power through. Then, at 4:00 Josh prevents an escape by simply driving his opponent off the mat with another power-double.

2000 NCAA: Byron Tucker (Oklahoma) vs Josh Koscheck (Edin) (via stardust9094)

Another wrestler-striker that follows this trend is Michael Chandler. His striking was on full display in his victory over veteran Eddie Alvarez. Again, his wrestling style indicates that Chandler would likely develop into a strong striker. See below at 3:55 where Chandler opts for the he-man super-suplex over switching to low single-leg or a trip. His wrestling style relies heavily on these types of overpowering, explosive moves.

Jordan Leen dec MIchael Chandler Missouri (via CornellWrestling)

The reason wrestlers of this ilk tend to develop into strikers seems obvious: they have become accustom to relying on powerful, fast-twitch muscles to be successful in wrestling, and these are similar types of muscles used in striking. Striking can be very technical, and I wouldn’t expect a wrestler to develop into a master kickboxer just because he has a strong double-leg, but these types of wrestlers are, by their very nature, well-suited to be good strikers. Their punches pack serious power, and they’re generally quicker than most opponents.

GRAPPLERS

On the other side of the coin are top level collegiate wrestlers that seem to develop their jiu jitsu at a significantly faster pace than their striking. Unlike the wrestler-strikers, these wrestlers were more technical on the mat. Instead of powering through double-legs, they often shot low singles or worked ankle picks to get their opponents down. Their style might appear a bit slower, often achieving a takedown through a scramble or contorted limbs.

A couple of fine examples of these wrestler-grapplers are Phil Davis and Ben Askren. As for Davis, his greenness in the striking department was on display against Rashad Evans, but his natural submission ability could be seen in his victories over Alexander Gustafsson and Tim Boetsch. His style in college is markedly different than Koscheck’s or Chandler’s. Below is Davis’s 2008 NCAA National Championship match. It not only shows his awesome defensive wrestling, but we see him using some very technical wrestling. At 4:40 he scores a takedown after defending one, utilizing his balance, flexibility, and long limbs.

2008 Finals 197: Davis (Penn St) vs Michalak (CMU) (via stardust9094)

Ben Askren is the crème-de-la-crème of this style of technical wrestling. His nickname, "Funky," comes from his wrestling style, but that's not to say his wrestling lacked technique-- far from it. Ben relied on low single-legs and carefully applying his weight and balances in specific places to score takedowns. The entire video below showcases this style. Ben rarely uses a powerful double-leg, but rather trips and ankle picks. His wrestling style, with all his scrambles and flexibility, seems custom made for developing a strong jiu jitsu game.

Ben Askren Highlights (via bobsagetisgangsta)

Whereas wrestler-strikers use their power and quickness, wrestler-grapplers use their creativity and technique on the ground to submit their opponents. Their takedowns might not always be so pretty, but once their opponent is down, these fighters use their innate ability to understand weight and balance and predict another fighter’s next move to work for the submission.

Again, these are very general categories, and there will always be outliers (Jon Jones??). There are still wrestlers that are more old school ground and pounders, like Chael Sonnen. Nonetheless, I think these two categories make sense for actually predicting what type of fighter a collegiate wrestler will turn in to. Hopefully the ultimate goal for any wrestler is to be well-rounded and skilled in all areas, but for the first several years, wrestlers tend to develop one area quicker than another.

So what did I mess up? Any predictions on Bubba Jenkins?

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

Comment 24 comments  |  10 recs  | 

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The song from the Ben Askren highlight...

will not leave my head. Ever. Sorry about that.

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by Benjamin Cole on Feb 12, 2012 10:59 PM EST reply actions  

None Shall Pass by Aesop Rock.

by Hummus5989 on Feb 14, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

What kind of wrestler was Johny Hendricks?

He hasn’t had nearly the type of success vs. wrestlers in MMA that you’d expect from someone with his credentials – which leads me to believe he was a super technical wrestler in college.

I would love a breakdown on which wrestling tendencies translate well into MMA, because there seems to be something in Hendricks’ style that prevents him from outwrestling fellow wrestlers in a fight. Although that might be because he’s still a rookie and is still figuring stuff out.

by crazybones on Feb 12, 2012 11:40 PM EST reply actions  

Same could be said for Munoz

And both wrestled at Oklahoma State, though I don’t know if the coaching has changed in the meantime. I wonder if there’s a connection.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 13, 2012 2:04 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd say both tend to be the more technical/grappler style

Even though it looks like their striking is developing quicker. It’s interesting you bring up their coach, though. Oklahoma State’s coach is John Smith, arguably the greatest American wrestler of all time. His coaching style, and Oklahoma State’s style, is to be incredibly aggressive. I think this mentality comes through in both Hendricks’s and Munoz’s style.

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by Benjamin Cole on Feb 13, 2012 9:09 AM EST up reply actions  

So here's my theory

Say you’re a technical wrestler and you’re good at gaining the upper hand in wrestling-specific situations. How many of those situations ever happen in MMA? Not that many. So in an actual fight, you lose a lot of what made you great in college wrestling.

On the other hand, you have wrestlers who use a power double to run through everyone. That’s always going to be useful in a fight.

So my next question is – do you know how Story and Pierce wrestled in college? Because they both outwrestled Hendricks in MMA, and there has to be a reason for it. I mean, they’re not better wrestlers than Hendricks.

by crazybones on Feb 13, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sure

what type of wrestlers Story or Pierce were. There’s tons of factors that go into wrestling in a fighting situation… striking, the cage, fights are longer than a wrestling match, etc. Story and Pierce, at least when they fought Hendricks, seemed to have a better grasp of how to mix the elements. Also, let’s not forget that a fighter can continue to develop his wrestling after college, or a fighter’s wrestling can get worse after college.

Follow me on Twitter @BenjaminAbrigo

by Benjamin Cole on Feb 13, 2012 12:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice post

I haven’t seen many technical breakdowns of collegiate wrestling, and this is very well done. Thanks!

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 13, 2012 2:05 AM EST reply actions  

Interesting post. To add, Chris Weidman is the type to be more of a wrestler-grappler. Matt Hughes though was more of the wrestler-grappler as well. How would you define Sean Sherk though? He was just more of a ground n pound guy.

Check out the C&D Channel on YouTube at: http://www.youtube.com/user/Gobusiness123 for MMA reviews, predictions, analysis, and other MMA related content.

by chrisbboy82 on Feb 13, 2012 2:47 AM EST reply actions  

I absolutely included Weidman

His wrestling style also follows the trend.

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by Benjamin Cole on Feb 13, 2012 9:00 AM EST up reply actions  

question

In the Michael Chandler fight why does the ref start one fighter on his knee’s and the other having his back?

Quietly leading Cecil Peoples Champs to victory and beyond.

All in the game yo, all in the game

by Our Bovine Public on Feb 13, 2012 8:11 AM EST reply actions  

This is the "referee starting position."

At the beginning of the second and third rounds, a wrestler has the choice of starting both standing, to be on bottom, or to be on top. It’s easier to score points from the bottom, so wrestlers often choose this position.

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by Benjamin Cole on Feb 13, 2012 9:02 AM EST up reply actions  

interesting, though the empiricist in me is troubled by the extremely low sample sizes. i’d like to see this theory tested a bit more rigorously.

by thuggis on Feb 13, 2012 1:51 PM EST reply actions  

Right

With inherently subjective things like “style,” any sort of firm categorization will be difficult. My guess is, though, that as more and more wrestlers transition to MMA, we’ll have a bigger sample size to prove me right or wrong.

Follow me on Twitter @BenjaminAbrigo

by Benjamin Cole on Feb 13, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, we just don’t have enough data right now. it’s a great start though, and i look forward to your future analysis.

by thuggis on Feb 13, 2012 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I would definitely consider Rashad as the prototype for an explosive wrestler who developed strong striking.

Rashad has great explosion, and hits damn hard. He’s also found a great synergy by disguising punches as level changes, and disguising his shot with punches.

There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?

by ElliotMatheny on Feb 13, 2012 3:04 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

one other though—it was interesting to see how much time the wrestlers spent on their knees. is there any chance to that style eventually finding its way to MMA? obviously under PRIDE rules, you’d just get blasted with a soccer kick or knee, but under the unified rules, it might make sense at times and would prob catch people off guard, at least at first.

by thuggis on Feb 13, 2012 6:30 PM EST reply actions  

Great post, man!

Really interesting stuff here.

If you don’t mind, we’re going to feature this as MMA Fighting’s Fanpost of the Day on tomorrow’s Morning Report.

by Shaun Al-Shatti on Feb 13, 2012 10:19 PM EST reply actions  

Would I mind??

Of course not! Thanks! Maybe I’ll get some friggin twitter followers…

Follow me on Twitter @BenjaminAbrigo

by Benjamin Cole on Feb 13, 2012 11:12 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

it's body type not wrestling style

guys like davis and askren take to jiu-jitsu because they are naturally flexible, gangly types, which is the same reason they took to a crafty, defensive wrestling style in the first place. however, their body type creates a deficit in terms of MMA striking because both must rely on rangy attacks instead of power and punching speed. these guys can also get away with wading into the guard of a good jiu-jitsu guy, as their natural flexibility lends itself to good submission defense and guard-passing.

wrestlers like koscheck, chandler, mendes, etc. have shorter limbs and more compact frames, so their striking will naturally consist of short power punches that work together with power takedowns. these guys won’t play around too much on the ground with a good jiu-jitsu guy, preferring basic positional control to submissions (these guys also won’t be as interested in passing guard).

by Trust Doesn't Rust on Feb 14, 2012 6:46 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

The two go hand in hand

because the body type is what led to the wrestling style.

I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!

by attgnp on Feb 14, 2012 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Good post and I think you are pretty correct

I have trained a fair amount with 2 people in this post…Askren and Chandler and you are accurate about both of them.
When I trained with Chandler he didn’t train a whole lot of jiu jitsu and even said he didn’t like it, I even subbed him a fair amount of times early on. While as he trained longer the subs became fewer and fewer. On the other hand, his striking was very quick and explosive. Kind of a in and out kind of guy. I think the only thing that could hinder him with the striking is reach, he has pretty short arms and that will be a big issue with taller fighters. At least at 155 it should help eliminate some reach though.
Askren on the other hand had very little in the way of quick explosive powerful striking, BUT if he got his hands on you, you were in trouble. The guy seriously only needs to get ahold of one limb and chances are most people are going down unless they have been wrestling for quite some time. Once on the ground he is incredibly flexible and strong. Not explosive strong but grab something and hold it until his opponents muscles give out strong….Strong grip, strong crushing/squeezing power. Askren is also very very smart when it comes to grappling. I was not as good as him but I could at least hold my own, the problem was that when we rolled/wrestled I felt like he was always 5 steps ahead of me and already new how he was going to counter whatever my next move would be, and then would already have the counter to my counter in mind. It was frustrating to say the least. I think you hit the nail on the head describing the likely styles of these wrestlers to follow.

I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!

by attgnp on Feb 14, 2012 4:48 PM EST reply actions  

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