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Redeeming MMA For Christians: A Controversial Mega-Church Pastor Is Pro-MMA

Image via via Mark Hill.

Mark Driscoll, the prominent West Coast mega-church minister at the helm of Mars Hill Church is getting some tough publicity for his approach to disciplining his members. But its an ill wind that blows no good as the hype brought his interesting take on MMA to my attention.

Driscoll is not only an outspoken advocate of MMA, he's also very well informed. Check this ~10,000 word piece he wrote in November. Not only does he make a case for combat sports as part of a Christian's life, he also outlines the rules, history and ethic of the sport:

Today, there remains much controversy around the sport due to what I believe are two primary reasons. One, many people simply do not understand the rules in place to help make MMA safer for the athletes. Two, it's a new sport and will take some time and the kind of exposure that main events on FOX will provide to quiet some critics.
...
Some Christians will vocally declare that we must reject MMA. Sometimes it's because they simply do not understand the nature of the sport and misperceive it, and other times it's because they are pacifists theologically who don't condone violence in any form. Their picture of Jesus is basically a guy in a dress with fabulous long hair, drinking decaf and in touch with his feelings, who would never hurt anyone. The problem is that Jesus probably had short hair (1 Corinthians 11 says it was a disgrace in that day for a man to have long hair), was in good shape from a labor job and lots of walking across rugged terrain, and upon his return will come again not in humility but rather in glory.

Of course he's also got some concerns that strike me, as a non-Christian, as rather eccentric if not deeply ignorant:

Additionally, some argue that we should reject MMA because some aspects of the sport stem from Eastern religions and philosophy. Indeed, this was some of the pushback on my recent post on yoga, "Christian Yoga? It's a Stretch." To this I would agree on a certain level. I would not encourage anyone to study under a teacher who, in addition to combat techniques, was also pushing non-Christian philosophies and Eastern spirituality. As stated earlier, MMA involves a host of various combat traditions, including disciplines such as wrestling and boxing that do not have roots in Eastern religion. Further, as I stated in the yoga post, it's wholly acceptable for Christians to engage in the physical aspects of stretching, including yoga-type stretches, without engaging in the practice of yoga itself as it's been understood and practiced for thousands of years. My further caution was to not use the word yoga since it has such religious and cultural background that is antithetical to Christianity. Similarly, one can practice combat sports and learn various techniques without immersing oneself in the philosophy and culture of such activities.

More after the jump including Driscoll using quotes from prominent fighters to cement his stance...

Star-divide

He also quotes from several MMA fighters who are practicing Christians including UFC light heavyweight champ Jon Jones, legendary veterans Ken Shamrock and Matt Lindland and Ben Henderson. Here's some quotes he runs from Henderson, who fights for the UFC lightweight title at UFC 144:

"Through music, that's one way I like to proclaim my faith. I try not to be overly pushy, but let people know. . .I'm not the best at converting people, but what I can do is live my life a certain way. . . I don't do the club scene, I don't go to bars. By people seeing that, that affects them in a bigger way than me talking about it.

"Before all my fights, the only thing I pray for is strength and honor. . .I'm not one of those guys who is about the violence and. . .idolizing the lifestyle of money and fame. A lot people, when they fight, they're afraid of losing. I realize there's something more important in my life. So I don't fight to not to lose, I fight to win."

But rest easy, he's not saying that a good Christian HAS to cage fight:

Not everyone should participate in MMA, watch it, or even enjoy it. The Bible doesn't command us to, and God's people are free to operate according to conscience on this matter.

Now I'm not bringing this up so we can hate on Mr. Hill or his faith, I just found it to be an interesting perspective on MMA. Tread lightly in the comments. We'll have the ban hammer ready and we're not very forgiving.

The discussion should be limited to the context of the piece, ie how people of faith reconcile their fondness for MMA with their beliefs. Any attempt to steer the discussion into one of the actual or relative merits of any particular faith or lack of faith will result in a swift banning.

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I see alot of JesusNeverTapped.jpgs

When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON

-Joell Ortiz

by The Lethal Haze on Feb 12, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions  

How could he have tapped?

His wrists were nailed to a fucking cross!

Ahoy-hoy.
Last round pick of the Filipino Reccing Machines

by Sugel Mendoza on Feb 12, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

PREPARE THYSELVES

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by Andy Davis on Feb 12, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

That's right, I need my Messiah to be ripped!

Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas

I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I wonder who his chemist is...

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

well, some people tend to see Ronald Reagan the same way, so this is hardly surprising. impressive, though.

"It's not cute anymore. I feel like I'm watching a homeless man try to eat a brick for a dollar."

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by Victor Rodriguez on Feb 12, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions  

"We're making meth here, not space shuttles."

by THEFILMGUY on Feb 12, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I was there for that, hilariously awkward

by jammin.. on Feb 12, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Ouch, dude.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

lovely moment

he bullied other crowds into contributing but Toronto wasn’t having it

by Cunny on Feb 12, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

lol

“bullied”

Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!

by RolloTomasi on Feb 12, 2012 10:57 PM EST up reply actions  

heh

so to speak

i’ve seen him repeat the question more assertively until the crowd caved

by Cunny on Feb 13, 2012 8:02 AM EST up reply actions  

Very interesting Nate!

I’m a sucker/magnet for these types of articles. It’s very interesting to me to see any religion/philosophy actively engaging in these sorts of discussions. The world is evolving, and religions in general are notoriously slow in keeping pace. This guy seems very articulate, and he definitely chose his words carefully.

I do hate this:

To this I would agree on a certain level. I would not encourage anyone to study under a teacher who, in addition to combat techniques, was also pushing non-Christian philosophies and Eastern spirituality

I very much dislike the idea of groups restricting the flow of information to like-minded groups.

by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 2:06 PM EST reply actions  

Woops- as to "Why" I dislike that-

it tends to lead to radicalization of groups.

by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I understand that

He doesn’t want people to begin to take up other religions or bad habits from trainers. There are some things that the Catholic church strongly rejects that seem innocent enough. Ie. astrology

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by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 2:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

True enough

But that doesn’t mean they should reject that you even hear these ideas. I guess what I’m saying is that I dislike the notion of not being given the opportunity to form your own opinion on the matter. Sure, astrology is harmless enough- but I think they still shouldn’t close off that avenue to learn about it, even from a practicing astrologer (do these exist?). A person should be able to make up his own mind on whether or not something is bullshit, not be told “don’t look behind door number 2, it will make you less Christian”

by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

That's kind of missing what I'm saying

I was just saying that someone who is a devout Christian can not realize how big a no no a little thing like that is. It’s for someone that has decided on Christianity but doesn’t know certain issues.

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by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 3:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I do not think this guy is saying he does not want Christians hearing other ideas, rather to just stay away from a trainer that really pushes that aspect.

by schm1583 on Feb 12, 2012 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

because that is what his quote in this article states…

by schm1583 on Feb 12, 2012 7:04 PM EST up reply actions  

thanks.

I mean, why do you think he would want someone to stay away from a trainer that pushes that aspect?

…because he doesn’t want him exposed to those ideas.

by Body Triangle on Feb 13, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Catholic church strongly rejects that seem innocent enough. Ie. astrology

They changed their stance on astrology to be much more cool with it, for the most part.

1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.

by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

But holy bad article title

Christian Yoga: It’s a Stretch?

Have you no shame!

I thought Lay N Pray was a stupid insult until I watched Tyron Woodley fight.

by DankNabbot on Feb 13, 2012 12:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Pentacostals too

in some divisions meditation is seen as witchcraft

anything that could be construed as undermining god’s full involvement in and generation of everything that happens ever is generally rejected

by Cunny on Feb 12, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends on how you interprete it.

Meditation and deep prayer do have similar effects in the brains: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_B._Newberg

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

It's really stupid

since Christianity started as an Eastern Mystery Religion (and still is in many places)

1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.

by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

highly debatable

there certainly was some interplay going on later, and some sects like the gnostics emphasized ‘secret knowledge’ (later branded a heresy), but the only two rituals of the early church were baptism and communion and it wasn’t particularly secretive about it. it may have been forced to be more discreet because of the resulting persecution.

by dr. ransom on Feb 12, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't say it started as a mystery religion

But it fits neatly into the social and cultural context that produced mystery religions, and there are some parallels, especially in the art and architecture of early Christian sanctuaries and Mithras shrines.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

They were secretive

particularly about communion, if you were/are not Christian you were/are not allowed to be present during the ritual. The Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (and I think the others as well) still has the whole “catachumens depart” still in it because, even those wanting to join the religion weren’t privy to the mystery.

1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.

by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

That doesn't matter in the context of this discussion in the slightest

All it means as that they were still keeping the mysteries in the 5th century. They still do it today.

1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.

by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

We don't really get a good sense

Of how Christians actually operated until the fifth century. I don’t think we have a full liturgy before then.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

It was the first(ish) brand

so it counts most. You’re right, the Catholic and Orthodox Church still keep the mysteries.

1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.

by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

so what?

it still has its origins as an eastern Mystery religion.

by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Well

If you want to get technical, it started as a reform movement within Temple Judaism of the first century, not as a mystery religion.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

That's possible

But again, this is not what I’ve learned- though, again, disclaimer- I went to catholic school.

by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

It's pretty straightforward

The first Christians were all Jews. One of the big debates within first- and early second-century Christianity was whether non-Jews could become Christians. It’s only a little later – mostly second and into the third century – that the parallels with mystery religions become relevant, since that’s when we start to see evidence for Mithraism, etc.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Mithraism?

Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas

I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

A persian Mystery religion

that bares remarkable similarities to early Christianity in it’s sacraments etc.

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by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Never heard of it, interesting

Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas

I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend

Follow me on Twitter @chris81203

by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

And to add

Most* Scholarship seems to argue that Mithraism actually borrowed from Early Christianity with regards to Theology and Philosophy while Early Christianity borrowed the Initiatory system from Mithraism.

*Because consensus of Scholarship doesn’t really prove anything.

"eat a dick." - Chris Barton

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by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Do you know any books that cover the ties between Christianity and Mithraism?

by Ramblin'man on Feb 12, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Ya know

I’ve only run into books with indirect references.

Either books dealing with Mithraism that address the topic only in a chapter or two.

Or Christian works addressing the ties here and there nothing to solid.

David Ulansey has written some good articles on Mithraic Theology.

"eat a dick." - Chris Barton

Tweet!

by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Watch the documentary called The god who wasn’t there. Talks about mithraism and the story of osirus which are earily similar to Christianity

Sheeeeeeeee-it

by Clay Davis on Feb 12, 2012 9:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Relatively new consensus

Is that its Persian roots are a bit overstated, and that it developed within the context of the Roman religious system.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Possible

The Scholars I read on the subject just emphasize the Persian roots and direct paralels of the Mithras story with Old Persian myths stemming from Zoroastrianism.

"eat a dick." - Chris Barton

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by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

My limited sense of the topic

Is that most older scholars took Roman authors at their word on that front, while newer ones emphasize the Roman authors’ attempt to invent a plausible origin for Mithraism.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds about right

Many Romans felt that an “Eastern” religion was more attractive than the typical state religion.

Huh… sounds alot like American Culture today.

"eat a dick." - Chris Barton

Tweet!

by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

The Romans had a long love affair with imported, “Eastern” religions, Magna Mater/Cybele being the weirdest example.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Early mystery religion with some similarities to Christianity, particularly popular among the Roman military – one of my friends is working on correlating the geographical distribution of mithraea (Mithraic cult centers) and Roman military installations.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm learning more on an MMA blog than I ever did in my Theology class..

Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas

I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend

Follow me on Twitter @chris81203

by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Dropping knowledge hammers all over the place here

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

So true, I love when topics like this come up here

I can sit back and see the debates of people that have far more knowledge on the subject than me.

Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas

I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend

Follow me on Twitter @chris81203

by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a special place

On the internets. Rare to find a lot of smart people with diverse interests willing to talk about them without too much trolling.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

No kidding. What’s your background, if you don’t mind me asking? You seem like a crazy knowledgable dude.

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Captain of The Bus Feeders, Bloody Elbow Civil War, Season Two

by T.C. Engel on Feb 12, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha thanks, I’m working on my PhD in Late Antique history (c. 300-700). I’m kind of an intellectual magpie, though, I tend to get really interested in random topics (right now it’s human evolution) and pursue them pretty rabidly.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Hahaha

Speaking of which, it’s Darwin’s birthday.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

It would take a calculated effort of stupid people to take that away

Of course, the likelyhood of that is very low. There’s more chance of it being pure coincidence.

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by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

*likelihood

That was sorta ironic

Please donate what you can to the Daniel James Miller Foundation.
Ruining your special night roster: (mostly because I forget who's on my team)

Earl Montclair (Captain), Me, KJ_ZametovStPierre, AboveThisFire, RobertCowan, sunyue, Farthammer, trice, DirtyML, Rutager, and mountaineers101

by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, said "stupid people" would have make trolling an art form, and keep from getting themselves banned in the process

Sheeple is probably the best at this, but he doesn’t have the backing to make permanent change.

Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas

I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend

Follow me on Twitter @chris81203

by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

i thought the debate was

whether the gentiles had to follow jewish customs upon conversion?

by dr. ransom on Feb 12, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

True

My understanding is that the undertone of the argument is whether non-Jews could be admitted. I’m not an early Christianity specialist, so I could be out of touch with the scholarship here.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

It was more of a social issue at the time than a religious issue, really. In some circumstances it wasn’t kosher for the two to congregate together.

Sorry. Former Theology major at a christian university.

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Ah, thanks for the clarification.

It’s hard to separate social from religious issues at that time, much different concept of the social role of religious belief in Temple Judaism.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah, i just assumed conversion was open

as luke, titus, and others were gentiles. i’ll have to look into it.

by dr. ransom on Feb 12, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

its true what your saying

All the early Christians were Jewish and it was originally started as a separate sect of Judaism but that changed over the years obviously.

by benten20 on Feb 12, 2012 3:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I am so, so sad

I had to step out and miss this discussion. I have a feeling you and I could have hours of discussions over this stuff.

1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.

by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm sad you missed it

It was a lot of fun, would have been nice to have another in-depth perspective on the issues that came up.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions  

read my earlier post.

it was certainly influenced by mystery religions (shown by slow development in catholic dogma and different sects that were stamped out), but the claim of mystery religion being its origin point is highly questionable.

by dr. ransom on Feb 12, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

canofworms.jpeg

by Hugin on Feb 12, 2012 2:07 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Diego Sanchez supports this message

"When you believe in something and you're a good person...things happen" - Junior Dos Santos

by Elitex10x on Feb 12, 2012 2:10 PM EST reply actions  

whys that?

not trying to bait you into anything. Im just curious

by Ricardo Arguello on Feb 12, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

fair enough

and we’ll just leave that at that.

by Ricardo Arguello on Feb 12, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Rec'd for RAW.

"You know, these guys want to talk about God. 'Oh, I want to thank God. I want to thank God.' Listen, I'm a God-fearing man, go to church every Sunday and have since I was a boy. But if I ever found out that God cared one way or another about a borderline illegal fist-fight on Saturday night, I would be so greatly disappointed that it would make rethink my entire belief system." ~ Chael Sonnen.

by VenusBlue on Feb 12, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

And christians are renowned for thinking for themselves. Atheism at least encourages people to think for themselves and think about alternatives. Christianity discourages these very things.

by Pahuus on Feb 12, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I've known plenty of open minded Christians

and plenty of closed minded ones. The people who brand themselves “Atheists” as opposed to “atheists” tend to be imitating the worst aspects of Xtianity.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

It all depends on the context.

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Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I seriously think that is undervaluing the worst that Xtianity has thrown up

I mean, I’m not trolling, but Atheism as a “sect” is a fairly modern phenomenon and if you want to look at what has been done in the name of Xtianity throughout the centuries, there’s certainly a lot to choose from. there’s a difference say, between being an intolerant douchebag and elitist about your atheism and say, using a religious obligation to deny a palestinian homeland due to your beliefs about the rapture, in the hopes of facilitating armageddon. Dominionism among modern evangelicals is a dark phenomenon. And really weird.

I just mean that your comparison was ignoring a lot of history and just not even close to accurate…. And even as I write this I feel uncomfortable talking about religion in public, or in this thread, where despite it being a natural tangent from the post it still seems like it’s ban territory, and I want to be respectful of our hosts. I’ll just bow out.

I thought Lay N Pray was a stupid insult until I watched Tyron Woodley fight.

by DankNabbot on Feb 13, 2012 1:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Christianity discourages these very things.

Wow. Dogmatic atheism IS annoying.

A writer looking for a new home.
Part of Team Luke Thomas' Beard (LTB)
The 209: Where we don't fight unless there's five guys on one, run away from the media, cry like babies when we lose decisions, and get finished by convicted sex offenders.

by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Tip of the iceberg

Greatest lover ever during the day, Trainyard Sleeper at night.

by IRodC on Feb 12, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Christianity

Doesn’t discourage anything. Particular groups of Christians are another story.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

well, i mean...it definitely discourages a lot of things.

Like not believing in Jesus.

Like not believing in Heaven.

Like submitting to authority, no matter the context.

by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

sorry, NOT submitting

No tapping?

Greatest lover ever during the day, Trainyard Sleeper at night.

by IRodC on Feb 12, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Jesus Didn't Tap. Didn't you know this?

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I needed the green power ranger to remind me of it

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by IRodC on Feb 12, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

White power ranger, now.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I stick too green

White power ranger sounds too racist

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by IRodC on Feb 12, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Point I was trying to make

Is that Christianity itself is a broad category of religious experience, and in and of itself is pretty flexible in terms of the practices and beliefs it encompasses. What particular groups of self-identified Christians encourage or discourage is another can of worms. And as far as submitting to authority, early Christians beg to differ.

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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

It is of no surprise that it stuck.

Christianity has a real low barrier of entry.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

It does now

1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.

by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

That's the secret of its success

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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

You should.

Gives you a lot of perspective.

Not bashing, just recommending.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

no prob my man

But I must say, I’m thoroughly done with christian history. 13 years of studying it, so I’m pretty much done with that.

I’d like to think I have perspective, but I do stand by my original post that, by necessity, Christianity (no particular sect, just itself) discourages other practices.

by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I find we need to make a distinction between faith and religion in these arguments

Faith is what you believe in (which can’t be proven or disproven) and religion is an organized group of people.

For example, you could believe in an omnipotent force in the universe that you can chose to call God (the idea of a being is subjective), but at the same time dismiss the Church as an organization.

by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:07 PM EST up reply actions  

"Faith is what you believe in (which can’t be proven or disproven)"

Not true. Many people’s faiths have declared that the end of the world is a particular date… so far, still here…

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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I should have been more clear

I’m talking about faith in regards to the existence of God. You can’t really disprove or prove the existence of God (particularly because the word God means different things to different people).

I’m not talking about silliness like claiming to know the date the world ends or talking about how Jesus used to ride the dinosaurs.

by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, some claims of god are falsifiable.

“God moves the sun around the earth” is a directly evidential claim that is false. Of note, the more specific the claim about god, the worse it tends to fair, especially if it’s something we can test. If it remains vague, then it risks becoming irrelevant. A purely abstract metaphysical god that never interacts with us isn’t much use, is it?

That is the crux for me – no concept of god thus far allows us to use its existence to further any other knowledge, which is a good criterion for truth.

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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

That's a pretty good point

Let me make it clear that I don’t disagree with you on any of these things. I’m just playing (funny enough) Devil’s advocate.

by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:34 PM EST up reply actions  

It depends on how you define dogmatic atheism.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

yes

I am not particularly religious and when I was in high school I was pretty aggressive about it. But as I went to college, I developed a healthy respect for any and all religious belief systems and the only group of people I couldn’t stand were atheists because they were the most “in your face” about their beliefs of any group.

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by T.P. Grant on Feb 12, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

It depends on the kind of "atheists" groups you find.

You have to understand that they are a very, very new group, comparatively speaking. And unlike religion, it has no in-built infrastructure, and a bunch of them are people who just saw life differently and dumped their faith on the supernatural with a vengeance.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm all for them being loud and proud

I just don’t want to have to hear it.
Also never forget the communists, Nazis and Ayn Randroids are all brands of atheism. I believe some martyred hippy once said something about “by their fruits shall ye know them.”

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

wait wait wait...

Nazis were far from atheists.

Soviet Communism was atheist, but communism in and of itself doesn’t implicate atheism

by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

the Nazis cut deals with the church

and let the churches stay in power but they were primarily atheists (with some dabbling in the occult) who swiped pagan imagry willy-nilly.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Nazis were occultists

Twisting the words of the Bible to create a new “Positive Christianity” which was little but their Aryan occultic ideas wrapped in a Christian label.

Pure Communism doesn’t necessitate any Religious beliefs, even the Early Christians lived in this manner. But the Communism which has had the most influence in the world is the brainchild of Marxism which is, by it’s very nature, an atheistic system.

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by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

and Marxism

is the definitive example of an attempt to dismiss religion that ended up becoming a virulent false religion.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Indeed

All you have to do is look at the tombs of Lenin and Stalin or the huge parades in Mao’s China to see the new religion of Hero Worship that developed to replace the old faiths.

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by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Except Marx didn't dismiss religion at all.

He’s very clear on the subject.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Marx isn't representative of Marxism

any more than Jesus is representative of Christianity.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Hahaha

“Some martyred hippy”

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I hate to disagree there.

But you are using Communism in a context it doesn’t belong in.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Marx's ideals were entirely atheist

He wanted to abolish all religion. Just because communism is recognized as a form of economicsystem that doesn’t mean it didn’t have other points to reach.

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by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

he was a great great economist

unfortunately he was a shitty shitty prophet.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Great economist in an ideal world

His form of communism was certainly far less extreme, but it would likely crash and burn.

But I don’t want to get into that now.

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by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Marx was a great critical economist, but his prescriptive theories left a lot to be desired. I find that’s always been the problem with marxist economic thought, they make very pertinent critiques of more mainstream systems and ideas, but then fail to propose effective alternative systems or models

by jammin.. on Feb 12, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Bagdhad, Belgrade, Beirut, Bombay, Belfast, Bethlehem

And the history of these cities tell a great story about religion

by miked612 on Feb 13, 2012 1:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Athieism

was around in Ancient Greece.

1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.

by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m glad you developed that respect as I have been told by certain individuals who are atheist that I am weak person for being a Christian. I also think it ignorant when these same people say that people of religion use God as a crutch. While some Christians do use God as a crutch, others don’t. I found it a bit ridiculous though because atheist or any person in general can use things like drugs or alcohol as a crutch in their lives, for example.

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by chrisbboy82 on Feb 12, 2012 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Best comment I've ever read, this coming from a Christian.

Thank you Nate.

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by T.C. Engel on Feb 12, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions  

hit the rec button

green that shit or STFU

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh trust me, I rec'd it.

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by T.C. Engel on Feb 12, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Did you just suggest Wilson?

Rec.

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by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Refusal to blame everything on Kid Nate is a bannable offense. I suggest you reconsider your position.

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by Richard Wade on Feb 13, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions  

I just take the stance that I don't know

And anyone claiming to know the answers for a fact is lying. Whether you are a hollywood atheist or the Pope.

by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

So which way do you lean? It's possible to have a preference without being certian.

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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Personally I'm an atheist

But I’m fully aware that I don’t know whether there is a God or not. I’m not stupid enough to think I can prove or disprove the existence of an omnipotent being.

To be quite honest, I think the concept that a person can comprehend God is a bit odd. We as humans have trouble comprehending each other, and the world we live in (can anyone truly comprehend how massive the universe is for example?). Even though I don’t believe in God, i think if God did exist it would be a bit out of my realm of comprehension.

by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

That's agnostic (or weak) atheism. I largely agree with your stance.

See my chart lower down.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:13 PM EST up reply actions  

That's agnostic athiesm

which, I think, is the most honest stance someone can have on the subject.

1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.

by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 7:13 PM EST up reply actions  

And one of my favorites. But this is (as established) not the place

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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 12, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

This was a joke, by the way. Before anyone gets upset.

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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 12, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Thank you, and I couldn't agree more.

It especially drives me nuts that atheism is the “cool” choice for quasi-intellectual types. I always respect peoples’ convictions – as long as they came to them independently rather than being told what to think.

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by Andy Davis on Feb 12, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

atheism is my default setting

always has been. but once idiots started capitalizing “Reason” and repeating the same talking points I started to get sick.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Unfortunately a lot of atheists adopt the same rigid intolerance that they like to denounce in religious people. This sort of debate seems to bring out the worst in people though

by jammin.. on Feb 12, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

This

Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas

I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Seconded.

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by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

pretty much this

My first post was a joke btw. i dont care what anyone else believes in

by Ricardo Arguello on Feb 12, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

this

To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle

by T.P. Grant on Feb 12, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

my feelings exactly

I am atheist not because I have the answer but because I believe no one does. Therefore I cannot possibly argue with someone else’s beliefs. My lack of belief led me down the path of live and let live not prosecute and judge

by troyd on Feb 12, 2012 4:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

This sums my thoughts on the subject exactly.

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by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

I think technically you would be closer to agnosticism then

by jammin.. on Feb 12, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

True.

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by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Were does Sartre fall?

Maybe a proof exists and maybe it doesn’t but disproving the the existence of god doesn’t matter either way.

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by pdl on Feb 12, 2012 6:28 PM EST up reply actions  

He personally was an atheist, though if he really felt it didn't matter, he'd be an "apatheist".

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't make me find Existentialism is a Humanism on my bookshelf.

The existence of god doesn’t matter because freedom is existence and existence precedes essence. With an objective codification of morality, freedom does not exist which undermines the very idea of humanity.
/French existentialism’d

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by pdl on Feb 12, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Well...
Existentialism is not atheist in the sense that it would exhaust itself in demonstrations of the non-existence of God. It declares, rather, that even if God existed that would make no difference from its point of view. Not that we believe God does exist, but we think that the real problem is not that of His existence; what man needs is to find himself again and to understand that nothing can save him from himself, not even a valid proof of the existence of God.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for saving my trip to the bookshelf, that's the quote I wanted.

If god exists or not it makes no difference. Sartre brings it to a very personal level in his reasoning. Camus says that there’s enough evidence to show that if there is a god then he’s as cold and uncaring as a godless universe.

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by pdl on Feb 12, 2012 6:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Wikiquote, bitch.

So we’re both right – he was an atheist, but said it didn’t matter.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions  

BE STYLE FISTBUMP FOR PHILOSOPHY!

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by pdl on Feb 12, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I always found this bit odd

given the importance of Kierkegaard in existentialist philosophy.

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by Avap on Feb 13, 2012 10:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Hmm...

Wouldn’t “Purple” Actually be “Deist”?

by Decado on Feb 12, 2012 6:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks.

The way I look at it, I don’t know if there’s a Big Man up there. But if there is I think living my life in what I’d consider a moral way should be enough to not piss him off. Besides I wouldn’t want to piss off those Belgian monks, I like their beer too damn much.
More seriously the level of debate on this subject is easily the best I’ve seen on the internet. Very interesting stuff to read without name calling, I’m not knowledgeable enough on the subject to really contribute too much but I’ve enjoyed reading it.

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by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions  

If you want more, email me.

I find religion fascinating and I have a lot of stuff I can offer you. Easier to do it in email than the comments.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Mark Driscoll...not Mark Hill

I read his whole article when it came out. As a Christian I agreed for the most part. You got his name wrong though :)

MMA is a sport. If we encourage baseball, basketball, football, etc. to teach dedication and other disciplines then MMA should be an option too. My brother is a pro fighter and Christian. He’s not a barbarian. He’s an athlete and loves to compete.

by jrr091784 on Feb 12, 2012 2:12 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

shit

thanks!

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 2:13 PM EST up reply actions  

No problem! I was a big fan of Driscoll’s until he wrote his new book about marriage. Too graphic for my taste but he is fairly respected in normal evangelical circles. I’m a Southern Baptist Youth Pastor but most preachers I know support his views for the most part.

by jrr091784 on Feb 12, 2012 2:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

i agree for the most part

but sometimes he can be frustrating with his biblical interpretation. For example when he says the man must be the one who earns the money in a marriage because “a man who does not provide for his family is worse than a non believer.”
Obviously thats not what the scripture is getting at, its speaking on work ethic and providing in general.

But in general i agree with him and i like his view on MMA.

by bluejitz on Feb 12, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions  

is this the guy who wrote "love wins?"

i haven’t read it, but i heard complaints of it espousing universalism.

by dr. ransom on Feb 12, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

No, that is Rob Bell.

by Ramblin'man on Feb 12, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

okay, gotcha.

is he affiliated with mars hill as well maybe? can’t see why i confused the two.

by dr. ransom on Feb 12, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Not that I am aware of. I think Mark Driscol is one of the pastors who has spoken out about Love Wins, which may be why you associate the two of them.

by Ramblin'man on Feb 12, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I am glad to be able to add something to a conversation here.

by Ramblin'man on Feb 12, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

oh, i see why.

just wiki’ed rob bell. he’s the founder of a separate, unaffiliated mars hill in michigan.

by dr. ransom on Feb 12, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

That makes sense. I will keep that in mind. Thank you.

by Ramblin'man on Feb 12, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

different mars hill

Grandville Michigan

by cletusvandam on Feb 12, 2012 2:52 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Three sentences insinuate universalism

The rest is a very solid read on the mission of Jesus.

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by T.C. Engel on Feb 12, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, MMA is one of those sports that the old ladies in the church get mad about, mostly because they see it, and don’t understand it. Granted, I’m using “old ladies” as a turn of phrase, because it essentially is church slang for people ages 40 and up who think the Bible is anti anything not from their years.

I don’t agree with a lot of things that Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill’s staff has done over the past few years, but I think he’s spot on. Speaking as another Christian, I think that you can practice a martial art without even coming close to any sort of Eastern religious ideal, so I think his comparison to Yoga is a bit flawed.

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the “old ladies” out there are non religious as well… I also think there are some gyms that add in some of the spirituality into the training and its not that flawed to recommend for Christians to stay away from those ones. As a Christian it wouldn’t bother me to be at a gym like that though.

by schm1583 on Feb 12, 2012 6:40 PM EST up reply actions  

For the historically-minded

This has some definite parallels in late 19th-early 20th century “muscular Christianity”, especially the idea that exercise is part and parcel of a Christian lifestyle.

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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 2:13 PM EST reply actions  

i refute my own "oh dear."

this has proven to be a good time utterly lacking of ignorance and malignancy.

by dr. ransom on Feb 12, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't underestimate your fellow BElitists

Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

lol ur dumb

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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 12, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

What does Jesus think of this

It doesn't matter what your name is!! The Rock will take your roody-poo candy ass to the corner of Know your role Boulevard and Jabroni Drive and check you in to the smackdown hotel!! If you smell what The Rock is cookin'!!

by Garbanzo on Feb 12, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Jesus loves Matt Hughes. Jesus probably didn’t love Hughes completely misinterpreting the book of Esther.

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think I get the joke here...

Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas

I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

haha

When did this happen? What did he say?

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by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

You guys need to watch Team Serra vs Team Hughes. It’s bad.

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh was this from his team bible studies?

Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas

I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

A-yup.

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I mostly just rolled my entire face during that segment

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it is always hard thing for ppl of faith. You want to spread your beliefs (since you think your beliefs are right and thus want others to be right) but it is hard to spread your belief system without coming off as pushy… So yeah Hughes comes off as pushing his beliefs on others, but it is do to good intentions

by schm1583 on Feb 12, 2012 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Time and place, IMO

Setting up a voluntary bible study for his team isn’t a bad idea at all. Doing it during scheduled training hours isn’t a good idea at all.

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 10:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh geez

Was it when he made his team read Bible verses?

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by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions  

they're suburban congregations

that draw 1,000s of worshipers for any given service. often featuring arena rock type entertainment setups.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

No

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Usually non-denominational.

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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

They're non-denominational

which means they generally fit under the Protestant umbrella, but that’s a huge umbrella.

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by Andy Davis on Feb 12, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

They attract evangelical protestants.

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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

This

Loooong history of crazy.

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by DankNabbot on Feb 13, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Fun story, that Jesus got struck by lightening

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Seriously?

Divine retribution’s a bitch.

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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

That's too funny for words

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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

The sign for the Hustler Store on the other side of the interstate? Still standing...

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

It is no longer there. They have not rebuilt it yet. I pass it every time I head south to visit family. Just passed it last weekend.

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by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I live less than 5 miles away from it

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, where it used to be

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I am just inside Michigan. I always felt it was a little over the top, and that the money it took to build such a work(?) could have perhaps been better served.

Not knocking the church, denomination, or anything like that. It’s not like religions haven’t been building elaborate statues and such for thousands of years, I just found it a little goofy maybe?

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by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

It's basically been the butt of many jokes in the area ince it was erected. Same with Solid Rock, but there's no need to go in to that here.

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed.

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by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I used to work at a catholic retirement community

The cross on the roof got blasted in half by lightning. Had the old folks in an uproar.

by Violent Newt on Feb 12, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Relatively recent term

To describe the very large, usually non-denominational congregations that have sprung up in the evangelical community over the last thirty or so years. They tend to be very well funded and make use of TV, radio, and the internet.

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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Lots of non demoninational churches but plenty that still follow one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_Protestant_churches_in_the_USA

by Sojo on Feb 12, 2012 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

In general,

it’s just a huge church with a congregation in the thousands. They usually spawn satellite churches that, instead of having their own preacher/reverend/pastor, watch the main church’s services via video screen. They’re usually not physically set up like a traditional church, either; they tend to be more like an arena or concert.

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by Andy Davis on Feb 12, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Is BE not on pace for bans this month or something?

I see no good discussion coming from such a polarizing topic as religion.

A lot of I agrees and mocking pics anyone? ;)

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by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 2:28 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

We’ve had over 50 comments so far without anyone crossing any sort of line. So…I think we’ll be okay

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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 12, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Typically religion isn't the most controversial thing here at BE

Mostly everyone stays pretty respectful

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

This is so true

Religion we can all generally speak of calmly and with reason. But somebody calls Fedor the GOAT and people lose their shit. It’s beautiful really.

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Also nick diaz. the banhammer was strong in those threads

by jammin.. on Feb 12, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

If anything

It tends to be in a live thread

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by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 2:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Mostly because it tends to be headed off at the pass. But I would agree that BE’ers are pretty respectful in general, mostly joking, and I would attribute that to the high-level of intellect (myself not included) and the strength of the moderators.

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by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Probably all of the above

But I’ve seen different religious conversations pop up several times and ver rarely does it even come close to getting heated.

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps I am overly-sensitive due to a previous experience with a Mr. Fagan that occurred during a live thread that was relentlessly bashing an openly Christian fighter and I simply decided to take an opposing position for the sake of balance.

It was not that I supported one side over another, it was just that I was under the belief that religion and politics were to be kept clear of BE and the onslaught of anti-Chrisitian sentiment regarding this fighter seemed to contradict that. It ended in the whole comment and discussion quickly being removed and that was that. I have never broached the subject since.

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by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

When was this?

I seriously missed some cool-ass bannings, then.
.
.
.
I always tend to miss those…

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I need to go back and check the events to see which it was.

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by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I do think that it was a Ben Henderson fight if memory serves me correctly, which is usually doesn’t. I blame age.

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by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

*it

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by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Fagan's intolerance of religion

and the epic post he wrote slamming the Orthodox Christian faith — without warning me or the other editors — are a big part of why he’s gone.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Just to give the other side of that piece

As a devout Orthodox Christian, I thought that piece was hilarious.

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by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions  

sure it did

There are TONS of posts that are pointless to BE.

His would have fit in with the rest of them.

by danielao on Feb 12, 2012 8:49 PM EST up reply actions  

nope

it had NOTHING to do with MMA. Nada. Zip. Zilch.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it is essential to have your beliefs and yet also maintain an open mind in order to grow and refine those beliefs. Being able to laugh at something humorous and not take everything so seriously or as a personal attack is not the norm, kudos good sir.

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by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought the piece was funny, but I also felt frustrated and sad that he’s so vehemently intolerant. Mike seems like a damned intelligent dude.

by castleeb on Feb 12, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

often a trait of the vehemently intolerant

some start to wonder how anyone with a brain couldn’t agree with whatever their view may be

and start to associate those who disagree with unintelligence

by Cunny on Feb 12, 2012 6:47 PM EST up reply actions  

that sucks

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by big matt on Feb 12, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

My jaw hit the floor that morning when I read his article

I thought it showed he didn’t think much of BE, to post something like that, or he just didn’t give a fuck and thought he should be able to say whatever he wanted to say, using whatever platforms he had available to himself.

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by The Lethal Haze on Feb 12, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

yeah

he refused to see how it didn’t help BE to alienate a major world religion and a top fighter.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 7:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't recall the article in question,

who was the Orthodox fighter?

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by Andy Davis on Feb 12, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Fedor.

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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 11:02 PM EST up reply actions  

that was pretty much the take away I had

and his behavior subsequently confirmed that.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember him bashing a fighter over his Islamic practices regarding fighting & training during Ramadan.

When the issues wasn’t that he was religious, but he only cited it when convenient – he had fought during the holy month before, but was using it to stall on contract negotiations, I believe.

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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I missed that post. Is that why he got boosted off BE?

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by Robust23 on Feb 12, 2012 8:02 PM EST up reply actions  

it was part of it

but honestly most of it had to do with disagreements over contracts.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

As Nate alluded to, Fagan was well known from ridiculing religion and the religious

But he was definitely the exception rather than the rule.

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I liked Fagan. He was lulz.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh me too

But his aggressive atheism could be a bit much

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah. But so it goes.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

It kind of seemed like he was doing a really bad Christopher Hitchens impersonation.

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

he's the one who I first noticed capitalizing "Reason"

which is anything but rational. science is about doubt and critical thinking not something to turn into an idol.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, it is nuts.

If mankind were to go extinct tomorrow at least, hey, we did SCIENCE.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

but the catch

is that if we go extinct tomorrow it’s 90% likely its going to be because of science. human beings with atomic bombs are kind of like monkeys with machine guns.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Adorable and frightening?

monkeys with machine guns

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he means

awesome, but dangerous

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by IRodC on Feb 12, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

That makes more sense

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

awesome, but dangerous and useful

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by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

It doesn't matter what your name is!! The Rock will take your roody-poo candy ass to the corner of Know your role Boulevard and Jabroni Drive and check you in to the smackdown hotel!! If you smell what The Rock is cookin'!!

by Garbanzo on Feb 12, 2012 4:29 PM EST up reply actions  

THIAGO!

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by gspmademegay on Feb 12, 2012 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

DING DING DING

WE HAVE A WINNER!

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by Garbanzo on Feb 12, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Disagree.

Science is a process. If we misuse the fruits of that process, that isn’t science’s fault, but ours. “Guided missiles, misguided men” (MLKjr)

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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

its pretty cool

but the latest research indicates that most scientific discoveries were intuited first then explained later by reason. So I have to stick to intuition as our greatest superpower. Its the difference between creating great art and creating really good criticism of art.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

but what if intuition is just our mind AUTOMATICALLY using logic

Like, maaan, its like, your mind takes in bits and pieces maaaan, and makes inferences that you don’t even know are logical, maaaan.

by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

intuition works too fast

reason is awesome though and is as close as we get to proving we know things.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I know, I'm just messing

Or am I? I don’t even know anymore.

by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

That is a misunderstanding of the scientific method, I think.

The scientific method requires that we intuitively gauge the environment, and then come around with theories that not only satisfy the observations but also that they may be predictive.

Hence why right now, we are bout to dump the notion that the standard model is the be-all end-all tool to explain elemental particles, and all b/c we can’t find the damn Higgs Boson so far.

Logic, and hence intuition, only takes you so far and then you need experimental proof.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

The scientific method is much messier in practice..

..is what I take Kid Nate to be saying, which jives with research on scientific practice from folks like Latour and Pickering. It’s often a “mangle” of rigorous method, intuition, luck and doing the best you can do.

C.S. Peirce, one of the great early american statisticians, articulated this best when he talked about abduction in the scientific method. I

by Sabate on Feb 12, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

But intuition is instinct that we have.

Science is something that we do. It’s something that we built ourselves.

I don’t see how what you just wrote is even contradictory to what I wrote, I’m sorry.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not contradictory.

The point I’m making is often the components of scientific practice outside hypothesis generation – data collection, data analysis, etc. – proceed from guesswork, argumentation and making do.

I’m not arguing the scientific method is invalid – just that its messier when its articulated in practice.

by Sabate on Feb 12, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree in that.

But I dunno what is it that I said that made you think I was not.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

i'd be interested in reading about this

could you point me anywhere in particular, nate?

by dr. ransom on Feb 12, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

You mean "start with Copleston's book on Kant".

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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:27 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Cognitive biases tend to fuck with that intuition, though.

Doesn’t it say something that intuition doesn’t count for much until it’s either reasoned out or empirically tested?

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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

So science proves that science was based off intuition?
And where did you read that. I’d like to see the article. I’d like to see how they distinguish between every instance of intuition vs observation.
All I can say is the science that’s allowing people to live decades longer than we would have 50 yrs ago isn’t based on intuition.

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by Robust23 on Feb 12, 2012 8:08 PM EST up reply actions  

A little off.

Science is great!

But all science isn’t entirely “derived from observations of the natural world” (e.g. theoretical physics) or proceed entirely from logical inductive or deductive processes (Darwin, for example).

I’ll agree with Kid Nate (and William James) on this one.

by Sabate on Feb 12, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Elaborate, if you will.

As I understand it, the scientific method is pretty cut and dry.

You observe stuff, and then try to explain it by coming up with a theoretical framework and then, if possible, experimental stuff that proves the theory within acceptable error parameters, or disproves it altogether.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

see David Deutsch

the inventor of quantum computing. He destroys inductivism utterly in his new book.

Hume has never been refuted and he broke the chain connecting cause and effect a long time ago.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Excuse me, but I don't have that much time to go and look for all of his tenets.

Just give me the cliff notes of your argument.

As a matter of fact, I can discuss quantum physics because I did my thesis on that stuff, so I’d greatly appreciate it.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I just read a bit, and the guy is doing the same thing everyone does which is making postulates.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Any thoughts on Bayesian practices?

They claim to have gotten around inductive issues, I believe (I could be wrong, as I’m still trying to sort out the math there).

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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

wait, what?

All of theoretical physics is hypotheses that we don’t yet have the means of testing. That’s why its “theoretical”- once we have the ability (if we ever do) to test it, that would complete the scientific method. Science is entirely derived from observations of the natural world. And not sure about the Darwin example?

by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Not exactly.

“Theoretical” basically means that they are playing around with mathematical theories to explain some kind of phenomena.

If it sticks, then “Yay!,” if not “Bummer.”

Enstein’s relativity was pure theoretical work.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

And these theories have a degree of validity...

even though they don’t stem directly from observation.

by Sabate on Feb 12, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Which is when we have a problem.

Validity is not the same as not being self-contradictory.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm afraid I'm not understanding you here.

Is your argument is that all non-empirical scientific research is of equal value as long as it isn’t self-contradictory?

by Sabate on Feb 12, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps we are using different definitions of validity?

Courtesy of wikipedia, here’s mine:

In science and statistics, validity has no single agreed definition but generally refers to the extent to which a concept, conclusion or measurement is well-founded and corresponds accurately to the real world. The word “valid” is derived from the Latin validus, meaning strong.

Validity is not a correct/incorrect binary state, but the degree to which we can posit something is correct.

by Sabate on Feb 12, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

What I'm saying is that theories that may look good on paper, are not necessarily valid.

The only way to know whether or not non self-contradictory theories are valid is to test them.

Even a seemingly valid theory may come off by the seams at some points b/c it fails to explain or predict stuff.

What I’m getting at is that pure theoretical leg work (thinking about stuff using logic) can only take you so far.

For example Newtonian mechanics, the theory is valid within the framework it was postulated in, it predicted and explained existing phenomena to a T, but when you start considering relativistic effects it becomes invalid—and people freaked the fuck out back then, b/c Newton was a real G to them, but all of a sudden his shit was worth the same as a bag of dicks b/c it just didn’t work.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely.

But we don’t disqualify theoretical physics from being scientific because it doesn’t have the empirical tools at its disposal. And its far from just hypothesis proposition – it has its own very rigorous methods of assessing validity that aren’t grounded in empirical observation.

I bring up Darwin because he generated an incredibly complex and large theory for explaining biological phenomena with comparatively little empirical evidence. It turned out to be incredibly fruitful as a scientific theory, but a lot of Darwin’s initial work was a mix of small amounts of data, guesswork, synthesis and sheer argumentation.

Ultimately empirical observation assigns validity in both these scientific paradigms, but often this empirical validation takes place a century later when the tools are available.

by Sabate on Feb 12, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I think we may have a disagreement.

Theoretical physics does not exist on its own bubble. What they find, while theoretically sound, may well end up being hogwash is the experimentalists don’t confirm it.

Valid does not equal true. It only means that the theory is not self-contradictory.

I’m not dissing theoretical physics, my dad is one, and I may well end up being one too, but that doesn’t mean that what we do is “correct” unless confirmed, because our parameters of correctness are not boud to anything other than what nature makes available for us to confirm.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Otherwise M-Theory would be the shit.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

No argument here.

There are absolutely degrees of validity, and I wasn’t suggesting otherwise. And real, observed data is the best evidence at assessing validity.

Here’s my point:

—Thorough empirical observation is often unavailable in scientific practice because we do not yet have the tools or instruments necessary to gather complete data. In the absence of those tools, science assesses the rigor of postulates through a field-specific “mangle of practice” that combines specific modes of hypothesis generation, evidence assessment and argumentation. Often these field-specific methods do not follow procedures that are in literal accordance with the scientific method.

by Sabate on Feb 12, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes.

But those are kind of ‘waiting in the wings’ seeing if they get to be true or not. And until they can be proven to be, they’ll have to wait not knowing whether they are or not.

That’s kinda where we are now with the Higgs Boson, the graviton, M-Theory, and all those crazy things I’m hoping to be true but we just can’t say b/c we have no way of testing them.

I mean, we built the most amazing fucking machine on the planet (LHC) just to see whether or not the Higgs is real shit, that alone means that those conjectures are important, but they were not built to celebrate them but to test them.

But yes, there’s stuff that we take to be true just because, for example the concept of thermodynamic ensemble, or the modern wave function interpretation in quantum physics (without it, we cannot even come up with the notion of the many world interpretation or whatever).

Science is a funny thing, but it is the best we have.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think we're substantively disagreeing here.

I absolutely agree that things have to be observed/tested/measured to have high degrees of validity.

I disagree that all theories are of equivalent validity – all just “waiting in the wings” – until they’re testing if that’s what you’re arguing.

They spent billions of dollars to build the LHC to test for Higgs-Boson because it was judged to be the stronger model. They’re not building a huge apparatus to test for the particles described in Higsless models because that’s judged to be a weaker model.

by Sabate on Feb 12, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

I just wanted to add one last bit.

But we’l leave it for later ‘cause you can’t reply timely and are busy. And so am I (damn).

Great luck at work, buddy.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

It’s been awesome fun reading this.
From Theology to Quantum Physics :)

by krste on Feb 13, 2012 2:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Heh.

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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed, I think the pretty clear warning did the trick.

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by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm here for the outrage.

I love that pieces like what he wrote take a cool approach to MMA and then switch to “don’t do yoga and if you do it, don’t call it yoga”

If it gets more people into MMA I’m all for it.

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by IRodC on Feb 12, 2012 2:35 PM EST reply actions  

"don’t do yoga and if you do it, don’t call it yoga"

This was actually quite funny. I was like “Whoa, old dude, did you really say that?” But some folk are old school like that.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Old people are the most fun people

When they are not racists or crazy

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by IRodC on Feb 12, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually

that’s when they are the most fun

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by Garbanzo on Feb 12, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Crazy, racist old people can be fun.

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by Richard Wade on Feb 13, 2012 12:40 AM EST up reply actions  

good for him.

it gets in my craw when people say mma is inherently un-christian. the christian says it to judge while the non-christian says it to paint the christian as a hypocrite.

mma =/= street-fight.

by dr. ransom on Feb 12, 2012 2:41 PM EST reply actions  

The problem with Mark...

And other pastors like him is they’ve lately been on a streak of trying to tell men to man up (and thus using MMA as an example of it) and yet there is no calling women into account for their behavior as well. Normally I’d be ready to say good things about a pastor who doesn’t call MMA a bloodsport or what have you but unfortunately it’s wrapped up in a teaching that I find ignorant. The red pill was a bitter pill to swallow but it opened my eyes to the ignorance of the “Man-Up” phenomenon.

by Sojo on Feb 12, 2012 2:43 PM EST reply actions  

Could someone explain this megachurch thing to an Englishman?

Again being English I don’t really get the religion and sport mixing thing as it’s not really done over here (with the expection of Javier Hernandez pre-match prayers in the center circle).

However I appreciate this guy being informed sdn hope it peeks peoples interest in the sport.

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by MattParker117 on Feb 12, 2012 2:44 PM EST reply actions  

Thanks

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by MattParker117 on Feb 12, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

There's some good stuff on what a megachurch is above.

As to mixing church and sports, that’s not really the issue. I have no idea what it’s like in England, but people in the evangelical movement in America take their faith very, very seriously, and a big part of it is applying your religious convictions to every part of your life. This is simplistic, but a lot of people will not watch violent/sexual movies, wear only very conservative clothing, etc. They are trying to examine every facet of their life through their values, and of course the leaders of these religious groups try to guide their congregations on these issues.

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by Andy Davis on Feb 12, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Kinda like Sharia, huh?

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh, sort of.

To my understanding, Sharia is very specific on what you can/can’t do, but these people are trying to extrapolate the spirit of the teachings of Jesus into the minutiae of their lives.

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by Andy Davis on Feb 12, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, I can’t say that I support his stance on yoga and eastern arts, but more groups coming out in favour of MMA can’t be a bad thing

by jammin.. on Feb 12, 2012 2:50 PM EST reply actions  

I agree with you there

I don’t really know how influential this guy, is but the exposure can’t be bad for the sport.

I’m just trying to ignore the xenophobic nature of the rest of his comments.

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

He is widely regarded as a giant in Christian theology. He may be restricted to a Christian fame, but I think he is fairly influential in the American Christian church.

by Ramblin'man on Feb 12, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Good to know. So this could be seen as fairly large exposure in that community?

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I would think him supporting in would bring a lot of positive exposure within the church.

by Ramblin'man on Feb 12, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

OT, but are you also a gamblin' man?

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

No, I have tried and failed many a time.

by Ramblin'man on Feb 12, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Hahaha

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions  

He is widely regarded as a giant in Christian theology.

That sucks

1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.

by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

there are a lot of religious nutbags. He comes across as just a guy who takes his stuff very seriously and that is it.

Not a nutbag imho.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not that

It’s just, the idea that we are putting this guy up there with Origen, Aquinus or even C.S. Lewis really bothers me.

1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.

by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

FFS.... did I just become a religion hipster?

1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.

by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Uh...I don't think we are...

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Okay

but when I read, “Giant in Christian theology” that’s where my mind jumps.

1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.

by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe a domestic giant?

A big fish in a small pond? i dunno, man. i certainly don’t think of him as a big deal.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think anyone from Mars Hill really should be included in the number of Lewis or Bonhoeffer.

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I do not think people are equating him to that list by any means, but he is highly regarded as a modern name in Christian theology. Sorry for the confusion.

by Ramblin'man on Feb 12, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotcha

sorry for the assumption!

1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.

by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I definitely understand where you are coming from.

by Ramblin'man on Feb 12, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

No he isn't.

Modern day “giants” are Plantinga & WLC, for example. Driscoll doesn’t do theology.

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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s very well known and very controversial, as he’s part of the “emerging” church movement.

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by T.C. Engel on Feb 12, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

How is he "controversial"?

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, there’s his book on sex…….

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Wowza....I don't need to read that

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Just in the sense he doesn’t have completely traditional doctrine. I haven’t read any of his books in their entirety, so I can’t give you a list like I could for say… Rob Bell or Erwin McManus. But he definitely is cutting edge, and is known for swearing during sermons haha. Which I’m cool with personally.

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by T.C. Engel on Feb 12, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM4hp9kz_A4

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by IRodC on Feb 12, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Hahahahahaha

Maybe more like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkaeAkJO0w8

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by T.C. Engel on Feb 12, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I gotcha

Curse words are more based off classism than any thing else. Good for him.

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah.

It’s basically just another word to me. I think being super sexually inappropriate or using the Lord’s name in vain is wrong, definitely things I try to avoid, but Western “profanity” isn’t a big deal to me.

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by T.C. Engel on Feb 12, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe I’m in the minority, but I find the post fight “Thank you Jesus for..uh..allowing me to do harm to my opponent and..win” absolutely ridiculous and unnecessary. Whatever your faith is, you should leave it out of the cage. Just my 2 cents though

by savik on Feb 12, 2012 2:53 PM EST reply actions  

I disagree

I don’t mind if a fighter is very religious and passionate about it. Most likely that passion is what led him to be successful in the first place.

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I can understand a “thanks for keeping my opponent and myself safe” type of thing, but no need to push it passed that.

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by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 2:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Unless of course they are asked or it is during an outside of the ring interview. Just my opinion.

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by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

We have to understand their context.

While outwardly contradictory, I think they only see it as “I am happy I was granted this gifts,” and want to share their good fortunes with their audience, along with whatever proselytizing message they may have, but I don’t feel they are trying to push it down anyone’s throats that much, to be honest.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

*granted these gifts*

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't see anything wrong with it

People who try and force religon annoy me, but simply speaking of your faith and thanking god isn’t a big deal. Its their post fight speech anyway, they can say whatever they want. I sort of get sick of the idea that atheletes are somehow supposed to please eveybody with what they say.

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by attgnp on Feb 12, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

True.

But once their words leave their mouths, whatever they say is fair game. They don’t live in a bubble, you know, and people can’t have it both ways—it is not okay to say “It is just my opinion” when you are blasting it in a public forum.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

true…I think the biggest thing about people complaining about it that bothers me is that people just bitch about everything these days. Almost anything somebody says will result in somebody saying they are offended by it. Basically people just need to get over themselves and deal with it.

I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!

by attgnp on Feb 12, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Seems logical to me.

We are in an era of push-back, right now. Everything, cultural wise, is starting to, somehow, come together via the standing mass communications infrastructures so that, now, folk are suddenly having to become defensive of their own.

Those with particular close affiliations to the ‘unadulterated’ forms of whatever they happen to belong to are feeling this more and more as time ticks on. It’s gonna be a bumpy ride going forward. That we are seeing this in MMA does not surprise me in the slightest.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 2:55 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

"I'd like to thank God for this victory"

As if God gives two shits about a cage fight. Its not open heart surgery for fucks sake.

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by RandyCouture'sDivorceLawyer on Feb 12, 2012 2:56 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Your comment is bad and you should feel bad.

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

The god of the bible does give two shits about stuff like that.

It is in the bible.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

:/

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice!!

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Haha, not the long-necks!!!

Good laugh.

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by NickRingp4pGOAT on Feb 13, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Yay!

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by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

My thoughts exactly

Although it’s not the first time he’s posted something flag-worthy.

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by wonderfulspam on Feb 12, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

What you just said was pointless.

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It is NOT pointless.

Especially when a bunch of practitioners in the community are people who outwardly believe in that stuff and take it very seriously. Also, it is a small window to a different point of view about the sport.

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions  

the point of the post is that a major religious leader is addressing MMA in a positive way

that impacts the sport and reflects its growing social acceptability. that’s relevant.
oh and you’re banned.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Took you long enough Nate

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Thank you.

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by T.C. Engel on Feb 12, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes! I knew I was going to see one of these today!

by castleeb on Feb 12, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

...

Ahoy-hoy.
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by Sugel Mendoza on Feb 12, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

am i the only one whos scratching his head

wondering how any of that was ban worthy??
did i eat crazy pills?

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by gspmademegay on Feb 12, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

After too many people would post saying how an article was useless, or boring, or pointless, etc, it pissed off the mods.

Nothing to contribute, then don’t post, or you’re Rule #4’d.

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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions  

he seemed to be contributing

someone just recd a comment of his before he was banned. didnt seem hostile or insulting, either. though i just read another comment of his, so maybe hes fine.

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by gspmademegay on Feb 12, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Pahuus? The "pointless post" crack is on the forbidden list, right after "FIRST!".

It was minor, so if he apologizes, he’ll probably be let back in.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

im an idiot.

i thought unabomberman was banned. youre by boy, u!

BECW S2: BUS FEEDERS PICK#73

by gspmademegay on Feb 12, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

He also flagged Nate for trolling

so F him

1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.

by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Did not know that. Noted.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions  

One of my big concerns

with MMA and its future is that it’s such a young sport so eager for allies and advocates within the “mainstream” is that it will take any support it can get regardless of where it comes from. Mars Hill has a reputation for being a “young, hip” church. It also has a negative reputation regarding women’s rights and is not taken very seriously by other Christians (much the way Mormonism and Scientology are marginalized by the mainstream; not voicing a personal opinion about those two faiths, but I think you understand my meaning)

This is just a thought exercise, but does having this man voice his support for MMA actually bring that much in the way of benefits?

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by woomikee on Feb 12, 2012 3:24 PM EST reply actions  

they can't stop him

but the UFC doesn’t have to reach out to him.

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by T.P. Grant on Feb 12, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I see your point, but I think the whole idea was just to present information regarding support from an unexpected source.

You could argue that same point regarding support from politically corrupt senators and such. Again, I do see your point and agree it is valid.

"This is the best BJ we have seen in a long time" - Joe Rogan
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by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Disregard my second statement. I was doing too many things at one time while my 2 yr. old helped me type. Obviously any type of legislative support is a good thing. I was thinking more in terms of personal character and the weight that persons words wield.

What Micah says below, yep that.

"This is the best BJ we have seen in a long time" - Joe Rogan
"It was just such a glorious moment for me" - Jon Jones

by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep, I'll rec that.

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by T.C. Engel on Feb 12, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

MMA already as a mysogyny problem - Driscoll won't help it.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Only if he comments on WMMA.

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Eh

Glad someone as prominent as Driscoll is saying that MMA isn’t of Satan or whatever, but this just seems to fit into his own controversial “Ultra-Masculine” persona.

We’ll see how this works but this guy’s ideas, when it comes to Theology and especially women, is the definition of JUST BLEED.

If you guys want to hear what Driscoll thinks on various subjects I suggest listening to his interview on the Unbelievable? radio show.

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by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:35 PM EST reply actions  

Wow

We’re doing pretty good on the non-offensiveness.

Imagine this post at mania?

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by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 3:42 PM EST reply actions  

I'd rather not.

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by T.C. Engel on Feb 12, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I picture it as a bunch of ladies in gifs doing non-Christian things

With cross tattoos

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by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

(insert derp photo here)

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed. I think that the level of knowledge represented in a typical BE thread scares most of the trolls off. That’s why I typically lurk in the background and rarely comment, lol.

"This is the best BJ we have seen in a long time" - Joe Rogan
"It was just such a glorious moment for me" - Jon Jones

by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

In all seriousness, I typically learn something new almost daily, or have something new to look into. I love the diversity of knowledge and background here. Sounds like I am nose deep in BE’s ass, but there isn’t another site I visit anywhere near as frequently.

"This is the best BJ we have seen in a long time" - Joe Rogan
"It was just such a glorious moment for me" - Jon Jones

by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Well that isn’t a traditional news/educationally oriented site. ;)

"This is the best BJ we have seen in a long time" - Joe Rogan
"It was just such a glorious moment for me" - Jon Jones

by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

We've got a great thing going

Trolls rarely come up, and when they do, we’re pretty good at warding them off.

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by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not a hardcore Christian or anything

But I definitely am a Christian as opposed to anything else…and I don’t really get why a combat sport would be hated so much.

I mean, do Christians hate boxing? Do they hate kickboxing? Do they hate Jiu Jitsu? MMA is essentially those things wrapped together(among other arts)

I don’t see the controversy or noteworthy-ness of ‘Christian supports MMA’

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by Chris Groves on Feb 12, 2012 3:53 PM EST reply actions  

I think the sport is still suffering the "human cockfighting" stigma from the 90's. And not a lot has been done to promote it as an artform.

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

There’s scripture in the Bible that is often misinterpreted (once again, the human element) and is taken as “You should not delight in violence.” Now, I haven’t studied either Greek or Hebrew in close to six years, but if I recall correctly the proper context of said scripture is referencing murder and other heinous acts, as does much scripture that speaks out against death and violence.

Combat sports don’t really fit that category, really, but some will lump it in just because they’re ignorant to the concept. Once again, people being people.

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair enough

I’m assuming any Christians, or religious folk at all, who loathe MMA are probably the more extremist and heavily conservative of them….those often labeled ‘irrational’

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by Chris Groves on Feb 12, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Essentially. Like I said earlier, it’s the “old ladies” of most congregations.

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Which is interesting

What sport occurred more times than any other in Scripture? Wrestling…

LETS MUTHERFUKERS!!!!!

by Andy Anderson on Feb 12, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Is "war" a sport?

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 10:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Historically speaking...yes, I'd say so.

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 10:41 PM EST up reply actions  

If I remember correctly from my time in religious instruction

I think that there are a lot of things that the bible says are sinful that we don’t put much stock in as a society.

by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep. Watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95hH1H5qK08

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:29 PM EST up reply actions  

I personally believe that some aspects of the bible are fascinating and should be studied

And other parts are far outdated as far as morality and factual information are concerned. I think that people have to put in perspective that the bible was written by fellow men, with the same amount of human error that is in us all really.

The book of Leviticus is often pointed to when condemning Christianity, but it also has a lot of dumb things (like your video shows).

I think that although there are stories in the bible that are interesting and can benefit from being studied, I also think that you have to believe that some stories are extremely similar to mythology in that the people of their time were trying to explain something they had no explanation for.

by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, when read as a mythology/etymology and history of the jewish people (obviously the Old testament). And the New testament as an idealogy, it can be very educational and informative.

It’s people that take whatever particular and singular quote that supports their point and defames anyone that disagrees with them that I get annoyed.

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions  

ah

the old “out-of-context” trick.

by dr. ransom on Feb 12, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Look above

This was explained pretty well

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by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I am an atheist. I’m not having any discussions about it here.

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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 12, 2012 4:01 PM EST reply actions  

Dammit Subo

You’re due for another banning.

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Is Subo testament that I can keep getting banned and always come back?

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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Only an asshole claims to know what happens after we die!

(ducks)

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 12, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

(throws a Jarate at Subo)

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds like a regular Sunday at BE.

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I fucking tried, man. But hey – I’ll try to address substance here:

If watching football is ok by your faith, then MMA should be too.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 12, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not trying to get banned, so all I can say is sigh. I wish that he wasn’t a fan of MMA and I wish he didn’t try to defend it if he’s going to approach Eastern philosophy with religious hubris.

by FreeFocus on Feb 12, 2012 4:05 PM EST reply actions  

It’s not religious hubris to follow one’s religion.

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

???

Isn’t the whole point of atheism to not have religious dogma attached to how you live your life? Atheism is not a religion. It is the lack of it and the lack of believing in the supernatural or supreme beings.

by flashlight cop on Feb 12, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Scroll up

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

But there's a specific thing about Christianity

And that is that accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Personal Savior™ is THE KEY. It’s the prerequisite to heavenly ascension. If you truly believe that, then you are in fact saying that everyone that hasn’t is going to Hell, and if you don’t truly believe that, then I’d hesitate to call you a Christian.

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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 12, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I've been told atheists can get into heaven by a Catholic priest.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't know - never asked them. I was raised Catholic and deal m ostly with Catholic priests still.

South Louisiana. Cajuns. So it goes.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:55 PM EST up reply actions  

oh ok

the impression i have is that the last second deathbed confession will work regardless of denomination

by Cunny on Feb 12, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps. don't know how that works.

“My good man, no is not the time to be making enemies.”
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The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

kind of philosophical gray area.

you get into all kinds of questions regarding sincerity, coercion by the fear of the unknown, “cheap grace.”

in my opinion, the wise theologians don’t try to answer it and leave it up to God.

by dr. ransom on Feb 12, 2012 8:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Orthodoxy

has the same stance. The Old Church is much more gangster about heretics than nonbelivers.

1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.

by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 7:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Brothers Karamazov is the best novel I've read. My history teacher was EO, and he walked us through the theology.

Annoys me that some of my non-believing friends dismiss it outright because of the religion in it. How can you not like the Grand Inquisitor or Ivan Talks with the Devil?

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Anyone dismissing that book for those reasons

Is demonstrating the most ridiculous kind of anti-religious bigotry. And the most self-defeating. Many of the greatest works of art in history have been created for religious reasons; ignoring them for that reason is incredible philistinism in my opinion.

Hell, many of the greatest achievements of science were for the greater glory of God as well.

"You know, these guys want to talk about God. 'Oh, I want to thank God. I want to thank God.' Listen, I'm a God-fearing man, go to church every Sunday and have since I was a boy. But if I ever found out that God cared one way or another about a borderline illegal fist-fight on Saturday night, I would be so greatly disappointed that it would make rethink my entire belief system." ~ Chael Sonnen.

by VenusBlue on Feb 13, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I maintain Dante's Divine Comedy is the greatest work of art, across any medium, humans have made.

I don’t care if it’s Christian – re-title it “fantasy” or “myth” or what-have-you, but it’s incredible.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 13, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

If you truly believe that, then you are in fact saying that everyone that hasn’t is going to Hell

That is absolutely not true.

1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.

by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 7:19 PM EST up reply actions  

So wait

You can get into Heaven without accepting Christ?

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 12, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Depends on the theology.

Even Dante had pagans in Purgatory…

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually

yes you can.

Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
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by RolloTomasi on Feb 13, 2012 12:09 AM EST up reply actions  

That is a denominational belief.

Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions  

That's actually not true.

Big misnomer.

Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!

by RolloTomasi on Feb 12, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

It's almost like you haven't spent any time studying Christian beliefs at all.

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by Richard Wade on Feb 13, 2012 12:51 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

What I find annoying

is religious zealots who think they know how I should live my life better than I do.

by flashlight cop on Feb 12, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions  

You're on a thin line

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by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 4:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

meh

really all i have to say about this

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by Cory Braiterman on Feb 12, 2012 4:11 PM EST reply actions  

Kid Nate already linked to the Slate article above, Scott.

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Crap. I knew that. Was re-enforcing the point. Yeah, that's it...

I’m medicated right now, so not thinking as clearly as normal. Thanks.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

No worries. I’m battling major sinus pain, so the fact that I’ve made even decent points is a friggin miracle. I haven’t slept in 24 hours, and once I lay down my head feels like it will explode.

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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions  

He would probably say they should walk around dressed like that.

They should sit quietly, watching the kids, and tend to their man after the fight. It’s telling that in interviews with the couple, Mrs. Driscoll rarely speaks.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Busy thinking about ironing and cooking, obviously ...

disclaimer: I’m being facetious given Driscoll’s outdated social attitudes. Some people have to have it spelled out for them. The internet is serious business.

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by KJ Gould on Feb 12, 2012 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Thing is, ring girls would be a step UP for his views.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm so amazed that shit hasn't went bananas in here given the topic.

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by Zachary Kater on Feb 12, 2012 6:51 PM EST reply actions  

Only one comment has been hidden.

I may or may not have written it (whistles innocently).

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Aw. If you can't post it, tweet it or email it to me.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 8:36 PM EST up reply actions  

nah

i realized i basically agreed with you.

by dr. ransom on Feb 12, 2012 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

...

Ahoy-hoy.
Last round pick of the Filipino Reccing Machines

by Sugel Mendoza on Feb 12, 2012 7:25 PM EST reply actions  

xkcd will always get a rec from me.

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by Richard Wade on Feb 13, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions  

I have to say BE is pretty awesome
Similarly, one can practice combat sports and learn various techniques without immersing oneself in the philosophy and culture of such activities.

I actually disagree with this as a martial artist. I find immersing oneself in the philosophy of an art helps you understand it better, and helps you adapt yourself to it. Whether it’s to use technique and not strength in bjj, learning to keep pushing hard in wrestling, floating like a butterfly and stinging like a bee in boxing or using the art of eight limbs to your fullest potential, learning the philosophy behind an art is important to truly get a small mastery of it.

by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:52 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

If you're going to get into the spirit of tradtitional Muay Thai,

there are prevalent attitudes in the art; especially in holding your ground, relentless pressure, and a willingness to go toe- to- toe with your opponent. I think that western Muay Thai (commonly identified as the Dutch style) emphasizes versatility and smart strategy.

But I don’t think it’s necessary to do all the “Namaste” stuff if you’re doing yoga. Religious belief rarely has anything to do with Martial arts.

There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?

by ElliotMatheny on Feb 12, 2012 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

There's also the whole "nude Greek wrestling" things I doubt we need to revive...

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 8:41 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Dude, I'm sure gay dudes already have. They're just not taping it.

Dudes will be dudes.

I mean, at one point there was a league called of Naked Women’s Wrestling. Guess who came up with that stuff? A guy.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

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Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Feb 13, 2012 2:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Beat me to it.

Def. taping it.
If you can think it up, it’s been done and filmed.

Oh no you didn't.--Nick Ring

by NickRingp4pGOAT on Feb 13, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Naked Kombat.

Google it. But I can’t & won’t link to it.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 13, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Yuuuuuup.

Well said.

Twitter: @DefGrappler
InStrength dot com.

by Ben Thapa on Feb 12, 2012 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

rec'd

To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle

by T.P. Grant on Feb 12, 2012 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Nah.

A writer looking for a new home.
Part of Team Luke Thomas' Beard (LTB)
The 209: Where we don't fight unless there's five guys on one, run away from the media, cry like babies when we lose decisions, and get finished by convicted sex offenders.

by MicahtheCynic on Feb 13, 2012 7:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Mike is plenty free.

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Feb 16, 2012 10:09 PM EST up reply actions  

it wasn't really the topic per se

it was that he didn’t have a feel for what would and wouldn’t be controversial and would need to be run by Brent and I. I fuck up all the time but I generally have the sense to know when something I’m writing about may hurt the site and I run it past someone else to get a 2nd opinion. Sometimes Brent and I are both wrong!
But we can’t really have someone in an editorial position with such huge blind spots and a sense of entitlement.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't get it.

Dude says it wasn’t brought up to his attention when discussing why he was let go. I mean, “huge blind spots and a sense of entitlement” seem like something he would’ve remembered had it been brought up to his attention.

This is all really strange to me.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

he knew he fucked up when i deleted the Orthodox post

that was definitely communicated to him.

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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

All I’m noting is that dude wasn’t aware that the orthodox post had something, if anything, to do with why he was let go.

As you said previously, it was mostly about contracts and stuff (different people want different things), which I get, but I just don’t understand that he wasn’t aware that the Orthodox post had something to do with his being leaving BE, or whatever.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 9:34 PM EST up reply actions  

i dunno man

if a guy doesn’t get that posting something that gets immediately pulled is going to be a long-term black mark I don’t know what to tell him.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 9:56 PM EST up reply actions  

I dunno either.

The publishing world, blog-wise, is all strange to me. I don’t know what exactly constitutes a long term big deal and what doesn’t. It all boils down to individual expectations, I guess.

Thanks for taking the time to address this, Nate. I appreciate it.

:)

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

greened.

When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 12, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm confused as to why a community moderator is helping a banned member post

What’s going on here?!

Menckenstein:
(noun)
Definition: a traditional doll crafted from the stomach hair of obese, unkempt, typically diabetic men who suck at fighting. This type of doll is commonly crafted in the deep South and seems to be exclusively purchased by fans of the NBA franchise the LA Lakers, who believe the dolls give them the power to be as cool as Celtics fans.
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by menckenstein on Feb 13, 2012 9:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Does you dad know?

Zing!

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Joe Silva probably doesn't approve of this guy, either.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 9:29 PM EST reply actions  

I am violently neutral to that guy.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I have never been religious and have come to think of the idea as old world thinking. But if people find happiness in those beliefs than so be it.

I think this quote fits, I heard it many years ago.

"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."

Sheeeeeeeee-it

by Clay Davis on Feb 12, 2012 9:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions   2 recs

Problem is when 'live a good life' starts meddling with other people's business.

No matter if you believe in the Sky Guy or in just living however you see fit while not messing with anyone, there is a latent risk that ideals will get a hold of your brain and that you will try to forcefully push people to adhere to them.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 9:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Sounds like your describing human nature

Sheeeeeeeee-it

by Clay Davis on Feb 12, 2012 9:49 PM EST via Android app up reply actions   2 recs

Using the wrong form of you're/your is going to result in warnings from now on...

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Feb 13, 2012 12:59 AM EST up reply actions  

WHAT?

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Feb 13, 2012 1:52 AM EST up reply actions  

Hey Grammer Police, usually I get the they’re, their, there correct. I believe i was too tired to care at that moment

Sheeeeeeeee-it

by Clay Davis on Feb 13, 2012 6:12 AM EST up reply actions  

*Grammar

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Season 2 Captain - Brock Lesnar's Cruelty-Free Pest Control
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by Zachary Kater on Feb 13, 2012 10:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't sass me.

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Feb 16, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Marcus Aurelius is a badass.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I really enjoy his show.

I disagree with 80% of what he says, but I enjoy the honest discourse.

BECW Season 1 Champs - K-1 Level Predictions Team
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by Andy Davis on Feb 12, 2012 11:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Religilous?

Funny but hollow. 90min of cheap shots.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett

by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 11:08 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

I really didn't like that movie.

And I usually enjoy Bill Maher. Imagine that.

His whole calling religion a “Neurological Disorder” just pissed me off to no end. But his approach to Muslim culture finally did me in.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Feb 13, 2012 12:22 AM EST up reply actions  

After talking to some of the religious people I know

You would think its a “Neurological Disorder” due to the pure insanity of their arguments, and the absolute disregard for all things they were taught growing up in school. You know like paying attention to the world around them and forming their own opinions based on those observations.

Where I live those are the only religious people we have around. I’d say the vast majority of the population here is either atheist or agnostic

Sheeeeeeeee-it

by Clay Davis on Feb 13, 2012 6:26 AM EST up reply actions  

My biggest problem with Maher is that he's not funny.

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Feb 13, 2012 1:00 AM EST up reply actions  

He's not always funny,

but he’s pretty much always entertaining. And if he isn’t saying something funny, he’s making a good point.

There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?

by ElliotMatheny on Feb 13, 2012 2:50 AM EST up reply actions  

I found him more entertaining before he found his way to HBO.

Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Feb 16, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Oddly enough, my favorite Christopher Hitchens moment is when he made Maher look like a fool.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTrzZLM0Tm4

He’s not funny, but to be quite honest I think that most of his “points” are reliant upon his audience having a shared ignorance.

A writer looking for a new home.
Part of Team Luke Thomas' Beard (LTB)
The 209: Where we don't fight unless there's five guys on one, run away from the media, cry like babies when we lose decisions, and get finished by convicted sex offenders.

by MicahtheCynic on Feb 13, 2012 3:17 AM EST up reply actions  

Hm. I’d really prefer my MMA to have nothing to do with religion. I’d prefer it to be treated as a sport, rather than as a justification for or affirmation of a particular set of beliefs.

Regardless. Anyone else think it’s funny that Driscoll’s rebuttal of pacifistic Christianity was essentially to point out that Jesus probably didn’t have long hair?

by theslynx on Feb 12, 2012 10:48 PM EST reply actions  

the nonsequitor is a great option

anytime you’re facing tough questioning.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Feb 13, 2012 1:04 AM EST up reply actions  

It's nice that Driscoll is such a big fan of MMA, but I'd rather he not say anything at all.

It’s selfish, I know, but religion is one of those topics where I would rather it be as far removed as possible from something I love. Having grown up in a Catholic family, gone to Catholic school for a good portion of my childhood and now consider myself free from such chains, I’d prefer to view MMA as a sport. That said, I don’t see any conflict between how people of faith would reconcile their fondness for MMA with their beliefs. The way I see it, it could be construed as yet another human endeavour to reach excellence in the name of God. At least, it could be spun that way. Churches, just like governments, can take whatever they want and try to spin it in their favor to justify their goals. So I don’t see how anybody who is religious would have any problems justifying their love of the sport.

"You've got Floyd Mayweather making $25 million. He can't stop a double-leg..." Nick Diaz.

by pud333 on Feb 12, 2012 11:41 PM EST reply actions  

Good words. Pretty much anyone saying good things about MMA is a good thing. Good Good Good. Good day.

"For your information, I would like to ask a question."
-Samuel Goldwyn

by fedorade on Feb 13, 2012 3:03 AM EST reply actions  

I haven't contributed anything to this thread

Mostly due to my inferiority complex when it comes to religion (going to a conservative Catholic University where the top major is theology will do that, I guess.) but this has been the most refreshing discussion of religion I have ever read on the internet. Christians, Athiests, and everyone in between being civil is a great thing. Everyone should be convicted in their beliefs, but don’t need to attack others who are convicted in their own specific beliefs, and if you do not have that conviction you should explore why this is the case.

LETS MUTHERFUKERS!!!!!

by Andy Anderson on Feb 13, 2012 4:42 PM EST reply actions  

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