Redeeming MMA For Christians: A Controversial Mega-Church Pastor Is Pro-MMA
Mark Driscoll, the prominent West Coast mega-church minister at the helm of Mars Hill Church is getting some tough publicity for his approach to disciplining his members. But its an ill wind that blows no good as the hype brought his interesting take on MMA to my attention.
Driscoll is not only an outspoken advocate of MMA, he's also very well informed. Check this ~10,000 word piece he wrote in November. Not only does he make a case for combat sports as part of a Christian's life, he also outlines the rules, history and ethic of the sport:
Today, there remains much controversy around the sport due to what I believe are two primary reasons. One, many people simply do not understand the rules in place to help make MMA safer for the athletes. Two, it's a new sport and will take some time and the kind of exposure that main events on FOX will provide to quiet some critics.
...
Some Christians will vocally declare that we must reject MMA. Sometimes it's because they simply do not understand the nature of the sport and misperceive it, and other times it's because they are pacifists theologically who don't condone violence in any form. Their picture of Jesus is basically a guy in a dress with fabulous long hair, drinking decaf and in touch with his feelings, who would never hurt anyone. The problem is that Jesus probably had short hair (1 Corinthians 11 says it was a disgrace in that day for a man to have long hair), was in good shape from a labor job and lots of walking across rugged terrain, and upon his return will come again not in humility but rather in glory.
Of course he's also got some concerns that strike me, as a non-Christian, as rather eccentric if not deeply ignorant:
Additionally, some argue that we should reject MMA because some aspects of the sport stem from Eastern religions and philosophy. Indeed, this was some of the pushback on my recent post on yoga, "Christian Yoga? It's a Stretch." To this I would agree on a certain level. I would not encourage anyone to study under a teacher who, in addition to combat techniques, was also pushing non-Christian philosophies and Eastern spirituality. As stated earlier, MMA involves a host of various combat traditions, including disciplines such as wrestling and boxing that do not have roots in Eastern religion. Further, as I stated in the yoga post, it's wholly acceptable for Christians to engage in the physical aspects of stretching, including yoga-type stretches, without engaging in the practice of yoga itself as it's been understood and practiced for thousands of years. My further caution was to not use the word yoga since it has such religious and cultural background that is antithetical to Christianity. Similarly, one can practice combat sports and learn various techniques without immersing oneself in the philosophy and culture of such activities.
More after the jump including Driscoll using quotes from prominent fighters to cement his stance...
He also quotes from several MMA fighters who are practicing Christians including UFC light heavyweight champ Jon Jones, legendary veterans Ken Shamrock and Matt Lindland and Ben Henderson. Here's some quotes he runs from Henderson, who fights for the UFC lightweight title at UFC 144:
"Through music, that's one way I like to proclaim my faith. I try not to be overly pushy, but let people know. . .I'm not the best at converting people, but what I can do is live my life a certain way. . . I don't do the club scene, I don't go to bars. By people seeing that, that affects them in a bigger way than me talking about it.
"Before all my fights, the only thing I pray for is strength and honor. . .I'm not one of those guys who is about the violence and. . .idolizing the lifestyle of money and fame. A lot people, when they fight, they're afraid of losing. I realize there's something more important in my life. So I don't fight to not to lose, I fight to win."
But rest easy, he's not saying that a good Christian HAS to cage fight:
Not everyone should participate in MMA, watch it, or even enjoy it. The Bible doesn't command us to, and God's people are free to operate according to conscience on this matter.
Now I'm not bringing this up so we can hate on Mr. Hill or his faith, I just found it to be an interesting perspective on MMA. Tread lightly in the comments. We'll have the ban hammer ready and we're not very forgiving.
The discussion should be limited to the context of the piece, ie how people of faith reconcile their fondness for MMA with their beliefs. Any attempt to steer the discussion into one of the actual or relative merits of any particular faith or lack of faith will result in a swift banning.
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I see alot of JesusNeverTapped.jpgs
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Feb 12, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
How could he have tapped?
His wrists were nailed to a fucking cross!
Ahoy-hoy.
Last round pick of the Filipino Reccing Machines
by Sugel Mendoza on Feb 12, 2012 7:26 PM EST up reply actions
Verbal submission.
“My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me?”
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
PREPARE THYSELVES

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by Andy Davis on Feb 12, 2012 2:23 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not even going to use words in this thread, but I'll leave this here.
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 12, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
That's right, I need my Messiah to be ripped!
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
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I wonder who his chemist is...
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 4:00 PM EST up reply actions
well, some people tend to see Ronald Reagan the same way, so this is hardly surprising. impressive, though.
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by Victor Rodriguez on Feb 12, 2012 8:12 PM EST up reply actions
CAN I GET AN AMEN!!!!

"When you believe in something and you're a good person...things happen" - Junior Dos Santos
by Elitex10x on Feb 12, 2012 2:04 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Not if your audience is the Toronto crowd at UFC 129
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
Ouch, dude.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
lol
“bullied”
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
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by RolloTomasi on Feb 12, 2012 10:57 PM EST up reply actions
Very interesting Nate!
I’m a sucker/magnet for these types of articles. It’s very interesting to me to see any religion/philosophy actively engaging in these sorts of discussions. The world is evolving, and religions in general are notoriously slow in keeping pace. This guy seems very articulate, and he definitely chose his words carefully.
I do hate this:
To this I would agree on a certain level. I would not encourage anyone to study under a teacher who, in addition to combat techniques, was also pushing non-Christian philosophies and Eastern spirituality
I very much dislike the idea of groups restricting the flow of information to like-minded groups.
Woops- as to "Why" I dislike that-
it tends to lead to radicalization of groups.
by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
I understand that
He doesn’t want people to begin to take up other religions or bad habits from trainers. There are some things that the Catholic church strongly rejects that seem innocent enough. Ie. astrology
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by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 2:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
True enough
But that doesn’t mean they should reject that you even hear these ideas. I guess what I’m saying is that I dislike the notion of not being given the opportunity to form your own opinion on the matter. Sure, astrology is harmless enough- but I think they still shouldn’t close off that avenue to learn about it, even from a practicing astrologer (do these exist?). A person should be able to make up his own mind on whether or not something is bullshit, not be told “don’t look behind door number 2, it will make you less Christian”
by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
That's kind of missing what I'm saying
I was just saying that someone who is a devout Christian can not realize how big a no no a little thing like that is. It’s for someone that has decided on Christianity but doesn’t know certain issues.
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by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 3:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I do not think this guy is saying he does not want Christians hearing other ideas, rather to just stay away from a trainer that really pushes that aspect.
...why do you think he would say that?
by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 6:59 PM EST up reply actions
thanks.
I mean, why do you think he would want someone to stay away from a trainer that pushes that aspect?
…because he doesn’t want him exposed to those ideas.
by Body Triangle on Feb 13, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
Catholic church strongly rejects that seem innocent enough. Ie. astrology
They changed their stance on astrology to be much more cool with it, for the most part.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
But holy bad article title
Christian Yoga: It’s a Stretch?
Have you no shame!
I thought Lay N Pray was a stupid insult until I watched Tyron Woodley fight.
Pentacostals too
in some divisions meditation is seen as witchcraft
anything that could be construed as undermining god’s full involvement in and generation of everything that happens ever is generally rejected
didnt jesus meditate? like, alot?
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by gspmademegay on Feb 12, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
Depends on how you interprete it.
Meditation and deep prayer do have similar effects in the brains: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_B._Newberg
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:47 PM EST up reply actions
It's really stupid
since Christianity started as an Eastern Mystery Religion (and still is in many places)
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
highly debatable
there certainly was some interplay going on later, and some sects like the gnostics emphasized ‘secret knowledge’ (later branded a heresy), but the only two rituals of the early church were baptism and communion and it wasn’t particularly secretive about it. it may have been forced to be more discreet because of the resulting persecution.
I wouldn't say it started as a mystery religion
But it fits neatly into the social and cultural context that produced mystery religions, and there are some parallels, especially in the art and architecture of early Christian sanctuaries and Mithras shrines.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
They were secretive
particularly about communion, if you were/are not Christian you were/are not allowed to be present during the ritual. The Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom (and I think the others as well) still has the whole “catachumens depart” still in it because, even those wanting to join the religion weren’t privy to the mystery.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
That doesn't matter in the context of this discussion in the slightest
All it means as that they were still keeping the mysteries in the 5th century. They still do it today.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
We don't really get a good sense
Of how Christians actually operated until the fifth century. I don’t think we have a full liturgy before then.
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"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Well, that sorta flies in the face of all the church history i learned through 13 years of catholic school.
Granted, it is just one brand…but you know…
by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
It was the first(ish) brand
so it counts most. You’re right, the Catholic and Orthodox Church still keep the mysteries.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
the only sacraments paul talks about are baptism and communion.
the dogma of the seven sacraments came later.
so what?
it still has its origins as an eastern Mystery religion.
by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
Well
If you want to get technical, it started as a reform movement within Temple Judaism of the first century, not as a mystery religion.
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"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions
That's possible
But again, this is not what I’ve learned- though, again, disclaimer- I went to catholic school.
by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:34 PM EST up reply actions
It's pretty straightforward
The first Christians were all Jews. One of the big debates within first- and early second-century Christianity was whether non-Jews could become Christians. It’s only a little later – mostly second and into the third century – that the parallels with mystery religions become relevant, since that’s when we start to see evidence for Mithraism, etc.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
Mithraism?
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
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A persian Mystery religion
that bares remarkable similarities to early Christianity in it’s sacraments etc.
"eat a dick." - Chris Barton
by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Never heard of it, interesting
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And to add
Most* Scholarship seems to argue that Mithraism actually borrowed from Early Christianity with regards to Theology and Philosophy while Early Christianity borrowed the Initiatory system from Mithraism.
*Because consensus of Scholarship doesn’t really prove anything.
"eat a dick." - Chris Barton
by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
Ya know
I’ve only run into books with indirect references.
Either books dealing with Mithraism that address the topic only in a chapter or two.
Or Christian works addressing the ties here and there nothing to solid.
David Ulansey has written some good articles on Mithraic Theology.
"eat a dick." - Chris Barton
by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
Watch the documentary called The god who wasn’t there. Talks about mithraism and the story of osirus which are earily similar to Christianity
Sheeeeeeeee-it
by Clay Davis on Feb 12, 2012 9:19 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Relatively new consensus
Is that its Persian roots are a bit overstated, and that it developed within the context of the Roman religious system.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
Possible
The Scholars I read on the subject just emphasize the Persian roots and direct paralels of the Mithras story with Old Persian myths stemming from Zoroastrianism.
"eat a dick." - Chris Barton
by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
My limited sense of the topic
Is that most older scholars took Roman authors at their word on that front, while newer ones emphasize the Roman authors’ attempt to invent a plausible origin for Mithraism.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds about right
Many Romans felt that an “Eastern” religion was more attractive than the typical state religion.
Huh… sounds alot like American Culture today.
"eat a dick." - Chris Barton
by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
The Romans had a long love affair with imported, “Eastern” religions, Magna Mater/Cybele being the weirdest example.
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"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:58 PM EST up reply actions
Early mystery religion with some similarities to Christianity, particularly popular among the Roman military – one of my friends is working on correlating the geographical distribution of mithraea (Mithraic cult centers) and Roman military installations.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions
I'm learning more on an MMA blog than I ever did in my Theology class..
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
Follow me on Twitter @chris81203
by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:42 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Dropping knowledge hammers all over the place here
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
So true, I love when topics like this come up here
I can sit back and see the debates of people that have far more knowledge on the subject than me.
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
Follow me on Twitter @chris81203
This is a special place
On the internets. Rare to find a lot of smart people with diverse interests willing to talk about them without too much trolling.
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"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No kidding. What’s your background, if you don’t mind me asking? You seem like a crazy knowledgable dude.
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Haha thanks, I’m working on my PhD in Late Antique history (c. 300-700). I’m kind of an intellectual magpie, though, I tend to get really interested in random topics (right now it’s human evolution) and pursue them pretty rabidly.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions
EVOLUTIONS A LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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by gspmademegay on Feb 12, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
Hahaha
Speaking of which, it’s Darwin’s birthday.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It would take a calculated effort of stupid people to take that away
Of course, the likelyhood of that is very low. There’s more chance of it being pure coincidence.
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*likelihood
That was sorta ironic
Please donate what you can to the Daniel James Miller Foundation.
Ruining your special night roster: (mostly because I forget who's on my team)
Earl Montclair (Captain), Me, KJ_ZametovStPierre, AboveThisFire, RobertCowan, sunyue, Farthammer, trice, DirtyML, Rutager, and mountaineers101
Yeah, said "stupid people" would have make trolling an art form, and keep from getting themselves banned in the process
Sheeple is probably the best at this, but he doesn’t have the backing to make permanent change.
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
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i thought the debate was
whether the gentiles had to follow jewish customs upon conversion?
True
My understanding is that the undertone of the argument is whether non-Jews could be admitted. I’m not an early Christianity specialist, so I could be out of touch with the scholarship here.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
It was more of a social issue at the time than a religious issue, really. In some circumstances it wasn’t kosher for the two to congregate together.
Sorry. Former Theology major at a christian university.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, thanks for the clarification.
It’s hard to separate social from religious issues at that time, much different concept of the social role of religious belief in Temple Judaism.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, i just assumed conversion was open
as luke, titus, and others were gentiles. i’ll have to look into it.
its true what your saying
All the early Christians were Jewish and it was originally started as a separate sect of Judaism but that changed over the years obviously.
by benten20 on Feb 12, 2012 3:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I am so, so sad
I had to step out and miss this discussion. I have a feeling you and I could have hours of discussions over this stuff.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sad you missed it
It was a lot of fun, would have been nice to have another in-depth perspective on the issues that came up.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 4:57 PM EST up reply actions
read my earlier post.
it was certainly influenced by mystery religions (shown by slow development in catholic dogma and different sects that were stamped out), but the claim of mystery religion being its origin point is highly questionable.
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"When you believe in something and you're a good person...things happen" - Junior Dos Santos
All religion is a jo...
Oh wait… Ban hammer you say?
I’ll see myself out of this topic
by Ricardo Arguello on Feb 12, 2012 2:11 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
thank you
dogmatic atheism is one of my least favorite brands of groupthink.
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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 11 recs
whys that?
not trying to bait you into anything. Im just curious
by Ricardo Arguello on Feb 12, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
because the whole point is supposed to be thinking for yourself
not joining a new cult with none of the redeeming qualities of the religions its replacing.
Also the notion that our limited reasoning abilities and very limited information gives us more than the vaguest understanding of the cosmos is patently absurd. From what I know about quantum mechanics etc, the great spaghetti monster might be an entirely valid cosmology.
See Robert Anton Wilson for a better perspective.
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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 27 recs
fair enough
and we’ll just leave that at that.
by Ricardo Arguello on Feb 12, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Rec'd for RAW.
"You know, these guys want to talk about God. 'Oh, I want to thank God. I want to thank God.' Listen, I'm a God-fearing man, go to church every Sunday and have since I was a boy. But if I ever found out that God cared one way or another about a borderline illegal fist-fight on Saturday night, I would be so greatly disappointed that it would make rethink my entire belief system." ~ Chael Sonnen.
i dont' see a rec
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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And christians are renowned for thinking for themselves. Atheism at least encourages people to think for themselves and think about alternatives. Christianity discourages these very things.
I've known plenty of open minded Christians
and plenty of closed minded ones. The people who brand themselves “Atheists” as opposed to “atheists” tend to be imitating the worst aspects of Xtianity.
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It all depends on the context.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
I seriously think that is undervaluing the worst that Xtianity has thrown up
I mean, I’m not trolling, but Atheism as a “sect” is a fairly modern phenomenon and if you want to look at what has been done in the name of Xtianity throughout the centuries, there’s certainly a lot to choose from. there’s a difference say, between being an intolerant douchebag and elitist about your atheism and say, using a religious obligation to deny a palestinian homeland due to your beliefs about the rapture, in the hopes of facilitating armageddon. Dominionism among modern evangelicals is a dark phenomenon. And really weird.
I just mean that your comparison was ignoring a lot of history and just not even close to accurate…. And even as I write this I feel uncomfortable talking about religion in public, or in this thread, where despite it being a natural tangent from the post it still seems like it’s ban territory, and I want to be respectful of our hosts. I’ll just bow out.
I thought Lay N Pray was a stupid insult until I watched Tyron Woodley fight.
Christianity discourages these very things.
Wow. Dogmatic atheism IS annoying.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Christianity
Doesn’t discourage anything. Particular groups of Christians are another story.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
well, i mean...it definitely discourages a lot of things.
Like not believing in Jesus.
Like not believing in Heaven.
Like submitting to authority, no matter the context.
by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
sorry, NOT submitting
No tapping?
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by IRodC on Feb 12, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Jesus Didn't Tap. Didn't you know this?
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Draft #: 69--The magic number.
by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
I needed the green power ranger to remind me of it
Greatest lover ever during the day, Trainyard Sleeper at night.
White power ranger, now.
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Draft #: 69--The magic number.
by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
I stick too green
White power ranger sounds too racist
Greatest lover ever during the day, Trainyard Sleeper at night.
Point I was trying to make
Is that Christianity itself is a broad category of religious experience, and in and of itself is pretty flexible in terms of the practices and beliefs it encompasses. What particular groups of self-identified Christians encourage or discourage is another can of worms. And as far as submitting to authority, early Christians beg to differ.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
It is of no surprise that it stuck.
Christianity has a real low barrier of entry.
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Draft #: 69--The magic number.
by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
It does now
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
That's the secret of its success
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough- but I really don't care about early Christians
Since I don’t have to deal with them today.
by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
You should.
Gives you a lot of perspective.
Not bashing, just recommending.
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Draft #: 69--The magic number.
by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
no prob my man
But I must say, I’m thoroughly done with christian history. 13 years of studying it, so I’m pretty much done with that.
I’d like to think I have perspective, but I do stand by my original post that, by necessity, Christianity (no particular sect, just itself) discourages other practices.
by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
I find we need to make a distinction between faith and religion in these arguments
Faith is what you believe in (which can’t be proven or disproven) and religion is an organized group of people.
For example, you could believe in an omnipotent force in the universe that you can chose to call God (the idea of a being is subjective), but at the same time dismiss the Church as an organization.
by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
"Faith is what you believe in (which can’t be proven or disproven)"
Not true. Many people’s faiths have declared that the end of the world is a particular date… so far, still here…
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:09 PM EST up reply actions
I should have been more clear
I’m talking about faith in regards to the existence of God. You can’t really disprove or prove the existence of God (particularly because the word God means different things to different people).
I’m not talking about silliness like claiming to know the date the world ends or talking about how Jesus used to ride the dinosaurs.
by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:18 PM EST up reply actions
Well, some claims of god are falsifiable.
“God moves the sun around the earth” is a directly evidential claim that is false. Of note, the more specific the claim about god, the worse it tends to fair, especially if it’s something we can test. If it remains vague, then it risks becoming irrelevant. A purely abstract metaphysical god that never interacts with us isn’t much use, is it?
That is the crux for me – no concept of god thus far allows us to use its existence to further any other knowledge, which is a good criterion for truth.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions
That's a pretty good point
Let me make it clear that I don’t disagree with you on any of these things. I’m just playing (funny enough) Devil’s advocate.
by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:34 PM EST up reply actions
[faith fist bump]
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
It depends on how you define dogmatic atheism.
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Draft #: 69--The magic number.
by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
yes
I am not particularly religious and when I was in high school I was pretty aggressive about it. But as I went to college, I developed a healthy respect for any and all religious belief systems and the only group of people I couldn’t stand were atheists because they were the most “in your face” about their beliefs of any group.
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by T.P. Grant on Feb 12, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It depends on the kind of "atheists" groups you find.
You have to understand that they are a very, very new group, comparatively speaking. And unlike religion, it has no in-built infrastructure, and a bunch of them are people who just saw life differently and dumped their faith on the supernatural with a vengeance.
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Draft #: 69--The magic number.
by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
I'm all for them being loud and proud
I just don’t want to have to hear it.
Also never forget the communists, Nazis and Ayn Randroids are all brands of atheism. I believe some martyred hippy once said something about “by their fruits shall ye know them.”
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wait wait wait...
Nazis were far from atheists.
Soviet Communism was atheist, but communism in and of itself doesn’t implicate atheism
by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
the Nazis cut deals with the church
and let the churches stay in power but they were primarily atheists (with some dabbling in the occult) who swiped pagan imagry willy-nilly.
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Nazis were occultists
Twisting the words of the Bible to create a new “Positive Christianity” which was little but their Aryan occultic ideas wrapped in a Christian label.
Pure Communism doesn’t necessitate any Religious beliefs, even the Early Christians lived in this manner. But the Communism which has had the most influence in the world is the brainchild of Marxism which is, by it’s very nature, an atheistic system.
"eat a dick." - Chris Barton
by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions
and Marxism
is the definitive example of an attempt to dismiss religion that ended up becoming a virulent false religion.
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Indeed
All you have to do is look at the tombs of Lenin and Stalin or the huge parades in Mao’s China to see the new religion of Hero Worship that developed to replace the old faiths.
"eat a dick." - Chris Barton
by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
Except Marx didn't dismiss religion at all.
He’s very clear on the subject.
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Draft #: 69--The magic number.
by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
Marx isn't representative of Marxism
any more than Jesus is representative of Christianity.
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Hahaha
“Some martyred hippy”
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I hate to disagree there.
But you are using Communism in a context it doesn’t belong in.
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Draft #: 69--The magic number.
by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Marx's ideals were entirely atheist
He wanted to abolish all religion. Just because communism is recognized as a form of economicsystem that doesn’t mean it didn’t have other points to reach.
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he was a great great economist
unfortunately he was a shitty shitty prophet.
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Great economist in an ideal world
His form of communism was certainly far less extreme, but it would likely crash and burn.
But I don’t want to get into that now.
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Bagdhad, Belgrade, Beirut, Bombay, Belfast, Bethlehem
And the history of these cities tell a great story about religion
Athieism
was around in Ancient Greece.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
I’m glad you developed that respect as I have been told by certain individuals who are atheist that I am weak person for being a Christian. I also think it ignorant when these same people say that people of religion use God as a crutch. While some Christians do use God as a crutch, others don’t. I found it a bit ridiculous though because atheist or any person in general can use things like drugs or alcohol as a crutch in their lives, for example.
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Best comment I've ever read, this coming from a Christian.
Thank you Nate.
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Oh trust me, I rec'd it.
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by Richard Wade on Feb 13, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
I just take the stance that I don't know
And anyone claiming to know the answers for a fact is lying. Whether you are a hollywood atheist or the Pope.
by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:03 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
So which way do you lean? It's possible to have a preference without being certian.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:07 PM EST up reply actions
Personally I'm an atheist
But I’m fully aware that I don’t know whether there is a God or not. I’m not stupid enough to think I can prove or disprove the existence of an omnipotent being.
To be quite honest, I think the concept that a person can comprehend God is a bit odd. We as humans have trouble comprehending each other, and the world we live in (can anyone truly comprehend how massive the universe is for example?). Even though I don’t believe in God, i think if God did exist it would be a bit out of my realm of comprehension.
by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That's agnostic (or weak) atheism. I largely agree with your stance.
See my chart lower down.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
Ah, I see
You learn something new every day.
by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
A day without learning is a day wasted.
Too much interesting stuff out there to be bored.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:36 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That's agnostic athiesm
which, I think, is the most honest stance someone can have on the subject.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 7:13 PM EST up reply actions
And one of my favorites. But this is (as established) not the place
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 12, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
This was a joke, by the way. Before anyone gets upset.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 12, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Thank you, and I couldn't agree more.
It especially drives me nuts that atheism is the “cool” choice for quasi-intellectual types. I always respect peoples’ convictions – as long as they came to them independently rather than being told what to think.
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atheism is my default setting
always has been. but once idiots started capitalizing “Reason” and repeating the same talking points I started to get sick.
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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Unfortunately a lot of atheists adopt the same rigid intolerance that they like to denounce in religious people. This sort of debate seems to bring out the worst in people though
This
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
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pretty much this
My first post was a joke btw. i dont care what anyone else believes in
by Ricardo Arguello on Feb 12, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
this
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
I’m an atheist, but personally I find it understandable to believe in God.
My anger comes with people who are self righteous and want to tell other people how to live. I truly believe that as long as you’re not hurting other people, you should live your life as you like.
I’m not bothered by faith, I’m bothered by religious institutions spreading hate and misinformation.
by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
my feelings exactly
I am atheist not because I have the answer but because I believe no one does. Therefore I cannot possibly argue with someone else’s beliefs. My lack of belief led me down the path of live and let live not prosecute and judge
by troyd on Feb 12, 2012 4:46 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
This sums my thoughts on the subject exactly.
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by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
True.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
This:
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Were does Sartre fall?
Maybe a proof exists and maybe it doesn’t but disproving the the existence of god doesn’t matter either way.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
He personally was an atheist, though if he really felt it didn't matter, he'd be an "apatheist".
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:31 PM EST up reply actions
Don't make me find Existentialism is a Humanism on my bookshelf.
The existence of god doesn’t matter because freedom is existence and existence precedes essence. With an objective codification of morality, freedom does not exist which undermines the very idea of humanity.
/French existentialism’d
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Well...
Existentialism is not atheist in the sense that it would exhaust itself in demonstrations of the non-existence of God. It declares, rather, that even if God existed that would make no difference from its point of view. Not that we believe God does exist, but we think that the real problem is not that of His existence; what man needs is to find himself again and to understand that nothing can save him from himself, not even a valid proof of the existence of God.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks for saving my trip to the bookshelf, that's the quote I wanted.
If god exists or not it makes no difference. Sartre brings it to a very personal level in his reasoning. Camus says that there’s enough evidence to show that if there is a god then he’s as cold and uncaring as a godless universe.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
Wikiquote, bitch.
So we’re both right – he was an atheist, but said it didn’t matter.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:08 PM EST up reply actions
BE STYLE FISTBUMP FOR PHILOSOPHY!

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I always found this bit odd
given the importance of Kierkegaard in existentialist philosophy.
"All noble things are as difficult as they are rare."
- Baruch Spinoza
The most classless fan in college football since 1984.
Deisim is that a god made the univere & natural law, but then stepped away and no longer intervenes (or possibly cares).
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks.
The way I look at it, I don’t know if there’s a Big Man up there. But if there is I think living my life in what I’d consider a moral way should be enough to not piss him off. Besides I wouldn’t want to piss off those Belgian monks, I like their beer too damn much.
More seriously the level of debate on this subject is easily the best I’ve seen on the internet. Very interesting stuff to read without name calling, I’m not knowledgeable enough on the subject to really contribute too much but I’ve enjoyed reading it.
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by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 6:51 PM EST up reply actions
If you want more, email me.
I find religion fascinating and I have a lot of stuff I can offer you. Easier to do it in email than the comments.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
Repeating the same talking points?
You called the Nazi’s atheists
Mark Driscoll...not Mark Hill
I read his whole article when it came out. As a Christian I agreed for the most part. You got his name wrong though :)
MMA is a sport. If we encourage baseball, basketball, football, etc. to teach dedication and other disciplines then MMA should be an option too. My brother is a pro fighter and Christian. He’s not a barbarian. He’s an athlete and loves to compete.
by jrr091784 on Feb 12, 2012 2:12 PM EST via mobile reply actions
No problem! I was a big fan of Driscoll’s until he wrote his new book about marriage. Too graphic for my taste but he is fairly respected in normal evangelical circles. I’m a Southern Baptist Youth Pastor but most preachers I know support his views for the most part.
by jrr091784 on Feb 12, 2012 2:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
i agree for the most part
but sometimes he can be frustrating with his biblical interpretation. For example when he says the man must be the one who earns the money in a marriage because “a man who does not provide for his family is worse than a non believer.”
Obviously thats not what the scripture is getting at, its speaking on work ethic and providing in general.
But in general i agree with him and i like his view on MMA.
is this the guy who wrote "love wins?"
i haven’t read it, but i heard complaints of it espousing universalism.
okay, gotcha.
is he affiliated with mars hill as well maybe? can’t see why i confused the two.
Not that I am aware of. I think Mark Driscol is one of the pastors who has spoken out about Love Wins, which may be why you associate the two of them.
oh, i see why.
just wiki’ed rob bell. he’s the founder of a separate, unaffiliated mars hill in michigan.
different mars hill
Grandville Michigan
by cletusvandam on Feb 12, 2012 2:52 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Three sentences insinuate universalism
The rest is a very solid read on the mission of Jesus.
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Well, MMA is one of those sports that the old ladies in the church get mad about, mostly because they see it, and don’t understand it. Granted, I’m using “old ladies” as a turn of phrase, because it essentially is church slang for people ages 40 and up who think the Bible is anti anything not from their years.
I don’t agree with a lot of things that Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill’s staff has done over the past few years, but I think he’s spot on. Speaking as another Christian, I think that you can practice a martial art without even coming close to any sort of Eastern religious ideal, so I think his comparison to Yoga is a bit flawed.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
I think the “old ladies” out there are non religious as well… I also think there are some gyms that add in some of the spirituality into the training and its not that flawed to recommend for Christians to stay away from those ones. As a Christian it wouldn’t bother me to be at a gym like that though.
For the historically-minded
This has some definite parallels in late 19th-early 20th century “muscular Christianity”, especially the idea that exercise is part and parcel of a Christian lifestyle.
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i refute my own "oh dear."
this has proven to be a good time utterly lacking of ignorance and malignancy.
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lol ur dumb
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 12, 2012 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
Always remember

"When you believe in something and you're a good person...things happen" - Junior Dos Santos
by Elitex10x on Feb 12, 2012 2:16 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
The benefits of physical culture benefits everyone
A lot of people have an energy that isn’t vented effectively or healthily, and sport is a great way to do it. MMA is just one approach to this.
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by KJ Gould on Feb 12, 2012 2:19 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
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"When you believe in something and you're a good person...things happen" - Junior Dos Santos
by Elitex10x on Feb 12, 2012 2:24 PM EST reply actions 11 recs
What does Jesus think of this

It doesn't matter what your name is!! The Rock will take your roody-poo candy ass to the corner of Know your role Boulevard and Jabroni Drive and check you in to the smackdown hotel!! If you smell what The Rock is cookin'!!
Like everyone else
Jesus thinks Penn is awesome and while Hughes has asshole tendencies he was still a great fighter.
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Jesus loves Matt Hughes. Jesus probably didn’t love Hughes completely misinterpreting the book of Esther.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:46 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think I get the joke here...
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
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haha
When did this happen? What did he say?
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by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
You guys need to watch Team Serra vs Team Hughes. It’s bad.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Oh was this from his team bible studies?
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
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A-yup.
A writer looking for a new home.
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The 209: Where we don't fight unless there's five guys on one, run away from the media, cry like babies when we lose decisions, and get finished by convicted sex offenders.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
I mostly just rolled my entire face during that segment
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
Follow me on Twitter @chris81203
I think it is always hard thing for ppl of faith. You want to spread your beliefs (since you think your beliefs are right and thus want others to be right) but it is hard to spread your belief system without coming off as pushy… So yeah Hughes comes off as pushing his beliefs on others, but it is do to good intentions
Time and place, IMO
Setting up a voluntary bible study for his team isn’t a bad idea at all. Doing it during scheduled training hours isn’t a good idea at all.
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
Follow me on Twitter @chris81203
Oh geez
Was it when he made his team read Bible verses?
"eat a dick." - Chris Barton
by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
they're suburban congregations
that draw 1,000s of worshipers for any given service. often featuring arena rock type entertainment setups.
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No
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
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Usually non-denominational.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
They're non-denominational
which means they generally fit under the Protestant umbrella, but that’s a huge umbrella.
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They attract evangelical protestants.
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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
This
Loooong history of crazy.
I thought Lay N Pray was a stupid insult until I watched Tyron Woodley fight.
As far as I understand it, Mega Churches are places that do stuff like this:

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Fun story, that Jesus got struck by lightening
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Seriously?
Divine retribution’s a bitch.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Yup, about a year and a half ago
Apparently the statue was made of some sort of styrofoam substance over a steel frame. It was mostly a matter of time.
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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
That's too funny for words
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
The sign for the Hustler Store on the other side of the interstate? Still standing...
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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
It is no longer there. They have not rebuilt it yet. I pass it every time I head south to visit family. Just passed it last weekend.
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I live less than 5 miles away from it
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Well, where it used to be
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I am just inside Michigan. I always felt it was a little over the top, and that the money it took to build such a work(?) could have perhaps been better served.
Not knocking the church, denomination, or anything like that. It’s not like religions haven’t been building elaborate statues and such for thousands of years, I just found it a little goofy maybe?
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It's basically been the butt of many jokes in the area ince it was erected. Same with Solid Rock, but there's no need to go in to that here.
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I used to work at a catholic retirement community
The cross on the roof got blasted in half by lightning. Had the old folks in an uproar.
by Violent Newt on Feb 12, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Relatively recent term
To describe the very large, usually non-denominational congregations that have sprung up in the evangelical community over the last thirty or so years. They tend to be very well funded and make use of TV, radio, and the internet.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Lots of non demoninational churches but plenty that still follow one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_largest_Protestant_churches_in_the_USA
In general,
it’s just a huge church with a congregation in the thousands. They usually spawn satellite churches that, instead of having their own preacher/reverend/pastor, watch the main church’s services via video screen. They’re usually not physically set up like a traditional church, either; they tend to be more like an arena or concert.
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Is BE not on pace for bans this month or something?
I see no good discussion coming from such a polarizing topic as religion.
A lot of I agrees and mocking pics anyone? ;)
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by wmuk on Feb 12, 2012 2:28 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
We’ve had over 50 comments so far without anyone crossing any sort of line. So…I think we’ll be okay
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by Brent Brookhouse on Feb 12, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Typically religion isn't the most controversial thing here at BE
Mostly everyone stays pretty respectful
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Religion ain't got shit
On Fedor, weed and fighter pay.
"You know, these guys want to talk about God. 'Oh, I want to thank God. I want to thank God.' Listen, I'm a God-fearing man, go to church every Sunday and have since I was a boy. But if I ever found out that God cared one way or another about a borderline illegal fist-fight on Saturday night, I would be so greatly disappointed that it would make rethink my entire belief system." ~ Chael Sonnen.
by VenusBlue on Feb 12, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
This is so true
Religion we can all generally speak of calmly and with reason. But somebody calls Fedor the GOAT and people lose their shit. It’s beautiful really.
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If anything
It tends to be in a live thread
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by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 2:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Mostly because it tends to be headed off at the pass. But I would agree that BE’ers are pretty respectful in general, mostly joking, and I would attribute that to the high-level of intellect (myself not included) and the strength of the moderators.
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Probably all of the above
But I’ve seen different religious conversations pop up several times and ver rarely does it even come close to getting heated.
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Perhaps I am overly-sensitive due to a previous experience with a Mr. Fagan that occurred during a live thread that was relentlessly bashing an openly Christian fighter and I simply decided to take an opposing position for the sake of balance.
It was not that I supported one side over another, it was just that I was under the belief that religion and politics were to be kept clear of BE and the onslaught of anti-Chrisitian sentiment regarding this fighter seemed to contradict that. It ended in the whole comment and discussion quickly being removed and that was that. I have never broached the subject since.
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When was this?
I seriously missed some cool-ass bannings, then.
.
.
.
I always tend to miss those…
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
I need to go back and check the events to see which it was.
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I do think that it was a Ben Henderson fight if memory serves me correctly, which is usually doesn’t. I blame age.
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Fagan's intolerance of religion
and the epic post he wrote slamming the Orthodox Christian faith — without warning me or the other editors — are a big part of why he’s gone.
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Just to give the other side of that piece
As a devout Orthodox Christian, I thought that piece was hilarious.
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by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
sure
it just didn’t belong on BE.
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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
sure it did
There are TONS of posts that are pointless to BE.
His would have fit in with the rest of them.
I think it is essential to have your beliefs and yet also maintain an open mind in order to grow and refine those beliefs. Being able to laugh at something humorous and not take everything so seriously or as a personal attack is not the norm, kudos good sir.
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I thought the piece was funny, but I also felt frustrated and sad that he’s so vehemently intolerant. Mike seems like a damned intelligent dude.
often a trait of the vehemently intolerant
some start to wonder how anyone with a brain couldn’t agree with whatever their view may be
and start to associate those who disagree with unintelligence
My jaw hit the floor that morning when I read his article
I thought it showed he didn’t think much of BE, to post something like that, or he just didn’t give a fuck and thought he should be able to say whatever he wanted to say, using whatever platforms he had available to himself.
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by The Lethal Haze on Feb 12, 2012 5:06 PM EST up reply actions
yeah
he refused to see how it didn’t help BE to alienate a major world religion and a top fighter.
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I can't recall the article in question,
who was the Orthodox fighter?
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Fedor.
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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 11:02 PM EST up reply actions
that was pretty much the take away I had
and his behavior subsequently confirmed that.
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I remember him bashing a fighter over his Islamic practices regarding fighting & training during Ramadan.
When the issues wasn’t that he was religious, but he only cited it when convenient – he had fought during the holy month before, but was using it to stall on contract negotiations, I believe.
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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:22 PM EST up reply actions
it was part of it
but honestly most of it had to do with disagreements over contracts.
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As Nate alluded to, Fagan was well known from ridiculing religion and the religious
But he was definitely the exception rather than the rule.
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I liked Fagan. He was lulz.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
Oh me too
But his aggressive atheism could be a bit much
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Yeah. But so it goes.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
It kind of seemed like he was doing a really bad Christopher Hitchens impersonation.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
he's the one who I first noticed capitalizing "Reason"
which is anything but rational. science is about doubt and critical thinking not something to turn into an idol.
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Uh...I disagree there.
Science is Rational within the model of reason it employs, which is derived from observations of the natural world. It is nothing but logic strung together with cool-ass symbols b/c it uses math as its tool.
It is amazing that something stemming solely from the human mind can explain the universe, and predict shit, to the scale that science does. It it the single greatest human achievement. Ever.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Yeah, it is nuts.
If mankind were to go extinct tomorrow at least, hey, we did SCIENCE.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
but the catch
is that if we go extinct tomorrow it’s 90% likely its going to be because of science. human beings with atomic bombs are kind of like monkeys with machine guns.
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Adorable and frightening?
monkeys with machine guns
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I think he means
awesome, but dangerous
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by IRodC on Feb 12, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
That makes more sense
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awesome,butdangerousand useful
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Disagree.
Science is a process. If we misuse the fruits of that process, that isn’t science’s fault, but ours. “Guided missiles, misguided men” (MLKjr)
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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
its pretty cool
but the latest research indicates that most scientific discoveries were intuited first then explained later by reason. So I have to stick to intuition as our greatest superpower. Its the difference between creating great art and creating really good criticism of art.
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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 12, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
but what if intuition is just our mind AUTOMATICALLY using logic
Like, maaan, its like, your mind takes in bits and pieces maaaan, and makes inferences that you don’t even know are logical, maaaan.
by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
intuition works too fast
reason is awesome though and is as close as we get to proving we know things.
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by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
That is a misunderstanding of the scientific method, I think.
The scientific method requires that we intuitively gauge the environment, and then come around with theories that not only satisfy the observations but also that they may be predictive.
Hence why right now, we are bout to dump the notion that the standard model is the be-all end-all tool to explain elemental particles, and all b/c we can’t find the damn Higgs Boson so far.
Logic, and hence intuition, only takes you so far and then you need experimental proof.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:32 PM EST up reply actions
The scientific method is much messier in practice..
..is what I take Kid Nate to be saying, which jives with research on scientific practice from folks like Latour and Pickering. It’s often a “mangle” of rigorous method, intuition, luck and doing the best you can do.
C.S. Peirce, one of the great early american statisticians, articulated this best when he talked about abduction in the scientific method. I
But intuition is instinct that we have.
Science is something that we do. It’s something that we built ourselves.
I don’t see how what you just wrote is even contradictory to what I wrote, I’m sorry.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
It's not contradictory.
The point I’m making is often the components of scientific practice outside hypothesis generation – data collection, data analysis, etc. – proceed from guesswork, argumentation and making do.
I’m not arguing the scientific method is invalid – just that its messier when its articulated in practice.
I agree in that.
But I dunno what is it that I said that made you think I was not.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions
i'd be interested in reading about this
could you point me anywhere in particular, nate?
You mean "start with Copleston's book on Kant".
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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i must have missed something
kant is the latest research?
Cognitive biases tend to fuck with that intuition, though.
Doesn’t it say something that intuition doesn’t count for much until it’s either reasoned out or empirically tested?
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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
So science proves that science was based off intuition?
And where did you read that. I’d like to see the article. I’d like to see how they distinguish between every instance of intuition vs observation.
All I can say is the science that’s allowing people to live decades longer than we would have 50 yrs ago isn’t based on intuition.
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A little off.
Science is great!
But all science isn’t entirely “derived from observations of the natural world” (e.g. theoretical physics) or proceed entirely from logical inductive or deductive processes (Darwin, for example).
I’ll agree with Kid Nate (and William James) on this one.
Elaborate, if you will.
As I understand it, the scientific method is pretty cut and dry.
You observe stuff, and then try to explain it by coming up with a theoretical framework and then, if possible, experimental stuff that proves the theory within acceptable error parameters, or disproves it altogether.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
see David Deutsch
the inventor of quantum computing. He destroys inductivism utterly in his new book.
Hume has never been refuted and he broke the chain connecting cause and effect a long time ago.
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Excuse me, but I don't have that much time to go and look for all of his tenets.
Just give me the cliff notes of your argument.
As a matter of fact, I can discuss quantum physics because I did my thesis on that stuff, so I’d greatly appreciate it.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:45 PM EST up reply actions
I just read a bit, and the guy is doing the same thing everyone does which is making postulates.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:48 PM EST up reply actions
Any thoughts on Bayesian practices?
They claim to have gotten around inductive issues, I believe (I could be wrong, as I’m still trying to sort out the math there).
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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions
wait, what?
All of theoretical physics is hypotheses that we don’t yet have the means of testing. That’s why its “theoretical”- once we have the ability (if we ever do) to test it, that would complete the scientific method. Science is entirely derived from observations of the natural world. And not sure about the Darwin example?
by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions
Not exactly.
“Theoretical” basically means that they are playing around with mathematical theories to explain some kind of phenomena.
If it sticks, then “Yay!,” if not “Bummer.”
Enstein’s relativity was pure theoretical work.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
And these theories have a degree of validity...
even though they don’t stem directly from observation.
Which is when we have a problem.
Validity is not the same as not being self-contradictory.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
I'm afraid I'm not understanding you here.
Is your argument is that all non-empirical scientific research is of equal value as long as it isn’t self-contradictory?
Perhaps we are using different definitions of validity?
Courtesy of wikipedia, here’s mine:
In science and statistics, validity has no single agreed definition but generally refers to the extent to which a concept, conclusion or measurement is well-founded and corresponds accurately to the real world. The word “valid” is derived from the Latin validus, meaning strong.
Validity is not a correct/incorrect binary state, but the degree to which we can posit something is correct.
What I'm saying is that theories that may look good on paper, are not necessarily valid.
The only way to know whether or not non self-contradictory theories are valid is to test them.
Even a seemingly valid theory may come off by the seams at some points b/c it fails to explain or predict stuff.
What I’m getting at is that pure theoretical leg work (thinking about stuff using logic) can only take you so far.
For example Newtonian mechanics, the theory is valid within the framework it was postulated in, it predicted and explained existing phenomena to a T, but when you start considering relativistic effects it becomes invalid—and people freaked the fuck out back then, b/c Newton was a real G to them, but all of a sudden his shit was worth the same as a bag of dicks b/c it just didn’t work.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions
Absolutely.
But we don’t disqualify theoretical physics from being scientific because it doesn’t have the empirical tools at its disposal. And its far from just hypothesis proposition – it has its own very rigorous methods of assessing validity that aren’t grounded in empirical observation.
I bring up Darwin because he generated an incredibly complex and large theory for explaining biological phenomena with comparatively little empirical evidence. It turned out to be incredibly fruitful as a scientific theory, but a lot of Darwin’s initial work was a mix of small amounts of data, guesswork, synthesis and sheer argumentation.
Ultimately empirical observation assigns validity in both these scientific paradigms, but often this empirical validation takes place a century later when the tools are available.
I think we may have a disagreement.
Theoretical physics does not exist on its own bubble. What they find, while theoretically sound, may well end up being hogwash is the experimentalists don’t confirm it.
Valid does not equal true. It only means that the theory is not self-contradictory.
I’m not dissing theoretical physics, my dad is one, and I may well end up being one too, but that doesn’t mean that what we do is “correct” unless confirmed, because our parameters of correctness are not boud to anything other than what nature makes available for us to confirm.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:54 PM EST up reply actions
Otherwise M-Theory would be the shit.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:55 PM EST up reply actions
No argument here.
There are absolutely degrees of validity, and I wasn’t suggesting otherwise. And real, observed data is the best evidence at assessing validity.
Here’s my point:
—Thorough empirical observation is often unavailable in scientific practice because we do not yet have the tools or instruments necessary to gather complete data. In the absence of those tools, science assesses the rigor of postulates through a field-specific “mangle of practice” that combines specific modes of hypothesis generation, evidence assessment and argumentation. Often these field-specific methods do not follow procedures that are in literal accordance with the scientific method.
Yes.
But those are kind of ‘waiting in the wings’ seeing if they get to be true or not. And until they can be proven to be, they’ll have to wait not knowing whether they are or not.
That’s kinda where we are now with the Higgs Boson, the graviton, M-Theory, and all those crazy things I’m hoping to be true but we just can’t say b/c we have no way of testing them.
I mean, we built the most amazing fucking machine on the planet (LHC) just to see whether or not the Higgs is real shit, that alone means that those conjectures are important, but they were not built to celebrate them but to test them.
But yes, there’s stuff that we take to be true just because, for example the concept of thermodynamic ensemble, or the modern wave function interpretation in quantum physics (without it, we cannot even come up with the notion of the many world interpretation or whatever).
Science is a funny thing, but it is the best we have.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think we're substantively disagreeing here.
I absolutely agree that things have to be observed/tested/measured to have high degrees of validity.
I disagree that all theories are of equivalent validity – all just “waiting in the wings” – until they’re testing if that’s what you’re arguing.
They spent billions of dollars to build the LHC to test for Higgs-Boson because it was judged to be the stronger model. They’re not building a huge apparatus to test for the particles described in Higsless models because that’s judged to be a weaker model.
I just wanted to add one last bit.
But we’l leave it for later ‘cause you can’t reply timely and are busy. And so am I (damn).
Great luck at work, buddy.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
Heh.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 8:48 PM EST up reply actions
I'm here for the outrage.
I love that pieces like what he wrote take a cool approach to MMA and then switch to “don’t do yoga and if you do it, don’t call it yoga”
If it gets more people into MMA I’m all for it.
Greatest lover ever during the day, Trainyard Sleeper at night.
"don’t do yoga and if you do it, don’t call it yoga"
This was actually quite funny. I was like “Whoa, old dude, did you really say that?” But some folk are old school like that.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Old people are the most fun people
When they are not racists or crazy
Greatest lover ever during the day, Trainyard Sleeper at night.
Actually
that’s when they are the most fun
It doesn't matter what your name is!! The Rock will take your roody-poo candy ass to the corner of Know your role Boulevard and Jabroni Drive and check you in to the smackdown hotel!! If you smell what The Rock is cookin'!!
Crazy, racist old people can be fun.
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by Richard Wade on Feb 13, 2012 12:40 AM EST up reply actions
good for him.
it gets in my craw when people say mma is inherently un-christian. the christian says it to judge while the non-christian says it to paint the christian as a hypocrite.
mma =/= street-fight.
The problem with Mark...
And other pastors like him is they’ve lately been on a streak of trying to tell men to man up (and thus using MMA as an example of it) and yet there is no calling women into account for their behavior as well. Normally I’d be ready to say good things about a pastor who doesn’t call MMA a bloodsport or what have you but unfortunately it’s wrapped up in a teaching that I find ignorant. The red pill was a bitter pill to swallow but it opened my eyes to the ignorance of the “Man-Up” phenomenon.
Could someone explain this megachurch thing to an Englishman?
Again being English I don’t really get the religion and sport mixing thing as it’s not really done over here (with the expection of Javier Hernandez pre-match prayers in the center circle).
However I appreciate this guy being informed sdn hope it peeks peoples interest in the sport.
Don't follow in my footsteps I walk into walls
Thanks
Don't follow in my footsteps I walk into walls
by MattParker117 on Feb 12, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
There's some good stuff on what a megachurch is above.
As to mixing church and sports, that’s not really the issue. I have no idea what it’s like in England, but people in the evangelical movement in America take their faith very, very seriously, and a big part of it is applying your religious convictions to every part of your life. This is simplistic, but a lot of people will not watch violent/sexual movies, wear only very conservative clothing, etc. They are trying to examine every facet of their life through their values, and of course the leaders of these religious groups try to guide their congregations on these issues.
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Kinda like Sharia, huh?
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, sort of.
To my understanding, Sharia is very specific on what you can/can’t do, but these people are trying to extrapolate the spirit of the teachings of Jesus into the minutiae of their lives.
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Well, I can’t say that I support his stance on yoga and eastern arts, but more groups coming out in favour of MMA can’t be a bad thing
I agree with you there
I don’t really know how influential this guy, is but the exposure can’t be bad for the sport.
I’m just trying to ignore the xenophobic nature of the rest of his comments.
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He is widely regarded as a giant in Christian theology. He may be restricted to a Christian fame, but I think he is fairly influential in the American Christian church.
Good to know. So this could be seen as fairly large exposure in that community?
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
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OT, but are you also a gamblin' man?
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
Follow me on Twitter @chris81203
Hahaha
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
Follow me on Twitter @chris81203
He is widely regarded as a giant in Christian theology.
That sucks
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
there are a lot of religious nutbags. He comes across as just a guy who takes his stuff very seriously and that is it.
Not a nutbag imho.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
It's not that
It’s just, the idea that we are putting this guy up there with Origen, Aquinus or even C.S. Lewis really bothers me.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
FFS.... did I just become a religion hipster?
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Uh...I don't think we are...
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
Okay
but when I read, “Giant in Christian theology” that’s where my mind jumps.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe a domestic giant?
A big fish in a small pond? i dunno, man. i certainly don’t think of him as a big deal.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think anyone from Mars Hill really should be included in the number of Lewis or Bonhoeffer.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
I do not think people are equating him to that list by any means, but he is highly regarded as a modern name in Christian theology. Sorry for the confusion.
Gotcha
sorry for the assumption!
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
No he isn't.
Modern day “giants” are Plantinga & WLC, for example. Driscoll doesn’t do theology.
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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
He’s very well known and very controversial, as he’s part of the “emerging” church movement.
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How is he "controversial"?
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Well, there’s his book on sex…….
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Wowza....I don't need to read that
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Just in the sense he doesn’t have completely traditional doctrine. I haven’t read any of his books in their entirety, so I can’t give you a list like I could for say… Rob Bell or Erwin McManus. But he definitely is cutting edge, and is known for swearing during sermons haha. Which I’m cool with personally.
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Like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM4hp9kz_A4
Greatest lover ever during the day, Trainyard Sleeper at night.
Hahahahahaha
Maybe more like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkaeAkJO0w8
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I gotcha
Curse words are more based off classism than any thing else. Good for him.
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
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Yeah.
It’s basically just another word to me. I think being super sexually inappropriate or using the Lord’s name in vain is wrong, definitely things I try to avoid, but Western “profanity” isn’t a big deal to me.
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Maybe I’m in the minority, but I find the post fight “Thank you Jesus for..uh..allowing me to do harm to my opponent and..win” absolutely ridiculous and unnecessary. Whatever your faith is, you should leave it out of the cage. Just my 2 cents though
I disagree
I don’t mind if a fighter is very religious and passionate about it. Most likely that passion is what led him to be successful in the first place.
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I can understand a “thanks for keeping my opponent and myself safe” type of thing, but no need to push it passed that.
"This is the best BJ we have seen in a long time" - Joe Rogan
"It was just such a glorious moment for me" - Jon Jones
We have to understand their context.
While outwardly contradictory, I think they only see it as “I am happy I was granted this gifts,” and want to share their good fortunes with their audience, along with whatever proselytizing message they may have, but I don’t feel they are trying to push it down anyone’s throats that much, to be honest.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
*granted these gifts*
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see anything wrong with it
People who try and force religon annoy me, but simply speaking of your faith and thanking god isn’t a big deal. Its their post fight speech anyway, they can say whatever they want. I sort of get sick of the idea that atheletes are somehow supposed to please eveybody with what they say.
I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!
True.
But once their words leave their mouths, whatever they say is fair game. They don’t live in a bubble, you know, and people can’t have it both ways—it is not okay to say “It is just my opinion” when you are blasting it in a public forum.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
true…I think the biggest thing about people complaining about it that bothers me is that people just bitch about everything these days. Almost anything somebody says will result in somebody saying they are offended by it. Basically people just need to get over themselves and deal with it.
I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!
Seems logical to me.
We are in an era of push-back, right now. Everything, cultural wise, is starting to, somehow, come together via the standing mass communications infrastructures so that, now, folk are suddenly having to become defensive of their own.
Those with particular close affiliations to the ‘unadulterated’ forms of whatever they happen to belong to are feeling this more and more as time ticks on. It’s gonna be a bumpy ride going forward. That we are seeing this in MMA does not surprise me in the slightest.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 2:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
"I'd like to thank God for this victory"
As if God gives two shits about a cage fight. Its not open heart surgery for fucks sake.
My daddy didn't come to my play in 2nd grade so now I do MMA.
by RandyCouture'sDivorceLawyer on Feb 12, 2012 2:56 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Your comment is bad and you should feel bad.
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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
The god of the bible does give two shits about stuff like that.
It is in the bible.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of what's in the bible:

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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs

"When you believe in something and you're a good person...things happen" - Junior Dos Santos
by Elitex10x on Feb 12, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Oh, GLORY to the RAPTOR.
For he went EXTINCT because of our SINS.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
:/
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
In high school, we used to ask our drunk teacher (also a priest)
who would win in an arm-wrestling contest: Jesus or Hercules?
“HERCULES ISNT REAL”
We know father, but just pretend he is.
“Oh…well then…probably Jesus”
And the dinosaurs…why did they die out then?
“THEY WERE SINNERS!”
…even the long-necks?
“WHAT THE HELL IS A LONG-NECK”
by Body Triangle on Feb 12, 2012 3:12 PM EST up reply actions 9 recs
Nice!!
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
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Haha, not the long-necks!!!
Good laugh.
Oh no you didn't.--Nick Ring
by NickRingp4pGOAT on Feb 13, 2012 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Yay!
I’ve never liked what you contribute to discussions, now I have grounds to flag you!
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My thoughts exactly
Although it’s not the first time he’s posted something flag-worthy.
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by wonderfulspam on Feb 12, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
What you just said was pointless.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:07 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It is NOT pointless.
Especially when a bunch of practitioners in the community are people who outwardly believe in that stuff and take it very seriously. Also, it is a small window to a different point of view about the sport.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
the point of the post is that a major religious leader is addressing MMA in a positive way
that impacts the sport and reflects its growing social acceptability. that’s relevant.
oh and you’re banned.
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Took you long enough Nate
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
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Thank you.
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...

Ahoy-hoy.
Last round pick of the Filipino Reccing Machines
by Sugel Mendoza on Feb 12, 2012 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
am i the only one whos scratching his head
wondering how any of that was ban worthy??
did i eat crazy pills?
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by gspmademegay on Feb 12, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions
After too many people would post saying how an article was useless, or boring, or pointless, etc, it pissed off the mods.
Nothing to contribute, then don’t post, or you’re Rule #4’d.
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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
he seemed to be contributing
someone just recd a comment of his before he was banned. didnt seem hostile or insulting, either. though i just read another comment of his, so maybe hes fine.
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by gspmademegay on Feb 12, 2012 5:45 PM EST up reply actions
Pahuus? The "pointless post" crack is on the forbidden list, right after "FIRST!".
It was minor, so if he apologizes, he’ll probably be let back in.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
im an idiot.
i thought unabomberman was banned. youre by boy, u!
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by gspmademegay on Feb 12, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions
He also flagged Nate for trolling
so F him
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
Did not know that. Noted.
The Machiavellian.
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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:16 PM EST up reply actions
One of my big concerns
with MMA and its future is that it’s such a young sport so eager for allies and advocates within the “mainstream” is that it will take any support it can get regardless of where it comes from. Mars Hill has a reputation for being a “young, hip” church. It also has a negative reputation regarding women’s rights and is not taken very seriously by other Christians (much the way Mormonism and Scientology are marginalized by the mainstream; not voicing a personal opinion about those two faiths, but I think you understand my meaning)
This is just a thought exercise, but does having this man voice his support for MMA actually bring that much in the way of benefits?
I rarely tweet
"I ain't having it" - Buster Posey, hosing folks down
they can't stop him
but the UFC doesn’t have to reach out to him.
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
I see your point, but I think the whole idea was just to present information regarding support from an unexpected source.
You could argue that same point regarding support from politically corrupt senators and such. Again, I do see your point and agree it is valid.
"This is the best BJ we have seen in a long time" - Joe Rogan
"It was just such a glorious moment for me" - Jon Jones
Disregard my second statement. I was doing too many things at one time while my 2 yr. old helped me type. Obviously any type of legislative support is a good thing. I was thinking more in terms of personal character and the weight that persons words wield.
What Micah says below, yep that.
"This is the best BJ we have seen in a long time" - Joe Rogan
"It was just such a glorious moment for me" - Jon Jones
For younger Christians, or those who are part of the “new church” movement? Yes. Driscoll’s words carry far with that particular group because he and Rob Bell are two men who are seen as people who are encouraging that particular movement. Granted, their ideas and theology are a bit off-kilter, but this isn’t a religious blog.
As it stands, any sort of Christian leader having a positive note on MMA isn’t a bad thing, especially if he’s well known. There are some religious folk out there that have a negative reaction to MMA simply because they don’t understand that.
Granted, anyone with any sense can tell you that reaction has nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with people being people.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Yep, I'll rec that.
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MMA already as a mysogyny problem - Driscoll won't help it.
The Machiavellian.
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by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
Only if he comments on WMMA.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
Eh
Glad someone as prominent as Driscoll is saying that MMA isn’t of Satan or whatever, but this just seems to fit into his own controversial “Ultra-Masculine” persona.
We’ll see how this works but this guy’s ideas, when it comes to Theology and especially women, is the definition of JUST BLEED.
If you guys want to hear what Driscoll thinks on various subjects I suggest listening to his interview on the Unbelievable? radio show.
"eat a dick." - Chris Barton
Wow
We’re doing pretty good on the non-offensiveness.
Imagine this post at mania?
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I'd rather not.
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I picture it as a bunch of ladies in gifs doing non-Christian things
With cross tattoos
Please donate what you can to the Daniel James Miller Foundation.
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(insert derp photo here)
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
I just lost a dozen IQ points just by considering the thought
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
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by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 3:43 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Agreed. I think that the level of knowledge represented in a typical BE thread scares most of the trolls off. That’s why I typically lurk in the background and rarely comment, lol.
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That's right. We're awesome.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
In all seriousness, I typically learn something new almost daily, or have something new to look into. I love the diversity of knowledge and background here. Sounds like I am nose deep in BE’s ass, but there isn’t another site I visit anywhere near as frequently.
"This is the best BJ we have seen in a long time" - Joe Rogan
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We've got a great thing going
Trolls rarely come up, and when they do, we’re pretty good at warding them off.
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I'm not a hardcore Christian or anything
But I definitely am a Christian as opposed to anything else…and I don’t really get why a combat sport would be hated so much.
I mean, do Christians hate boxing? Do they hate kickboxing? Do they hate Jiu Jitsu? MMA is essentially those things wrapped together(among other arts)
I don’t see the controversy or noteworthy-ness of ‘Christian supports MMA’
"Junior Dos Santos is next." - Alistair Overeem
I think the sport is still suffering the "human cockfighting" stigma from the 90's. And not a lot has been done to promote it as an artform.
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There’s scripture in the Bible that is often misinterpreted (once again, the human element) and is taken as “You should not delight in violence.” Now, I haven’t studied either Greek or Hebrew in close to six years, but if I recall correctly the proper context of said scripture is referencing murder and other heinous acts, as does much scripture that speaks out against death and violence.
Combat sports don’t really fit that category, really, but some will lump it in just because they’re ignorant to the concept. Once again, people being people.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough
I’m assuming any Christians, or religious folk at all, who loathe MMA are probably the more extremist and heavily conservative of them….those often labeled ‘irrational’
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by Chris Groves on Feb 12, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Essentially. Like I said earlier, it’s the “old ladies” of most congregations.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions
Which is interesting
What sport occurred more times than any other in Scripture? Wrestling…
LETS MUTHERFUKERS!!!!!
by Andy Anderson on Feb 12, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
Is "war" a sport?
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
Historically speaking...yes, I'd say so.
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
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Follow me on Twitter @chris81203
If I remember correctly from my time in religious instruction
I think that there are a lot of things that the bible says are sinful that we don’t put much stock in as a society.
by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:27 PM EST up reply actions
Yep. Watch this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95hH1H5qK08
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
I personally believe that some aspects of the bible are fascinating and should be studied
And other parts are far outdated as far as morality and factual information are concerned. I think that people have to put in perspective that the bible was written by fellow men, with the same amount of human error that is in us all really.
The book of Leviticus is often pointed to when condemning Christianity, but it also has a lot of dumb things (like your video shows).
I think that although there are stories in the bible that are interesting and can benefit from being studied, I also think that you have to believe that some stories are extremely similar to mythology in that the people of their time were trying to explain something they had no explanation for.
by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:46 PM EST up reply actions
I have no problem treating the Bible as myth because that doesn't imply that it's true. It's when it's taken too seriously that I have a problem.
I must recommend: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, when read as a mythology/etymology and history of the jewish people (obviously the Old testament). And the New testament as an idealogy, it can be very educational and informative.
It’s people that take whatever particular and singular quote that supports their point and defames anyone that disagrees with them that I get annoyed.
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
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Look above
This was explained pretty well
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I am an atheist. I’m not having any discussions about it here.
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 12, 2012 4:01 PM EST reply actions
Dammit Subo
You’re due for another banning.
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
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Is Subo testament that I can keep getting banned and always come back?
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
Only an asshole claims to know what happens after we die!
(ducks)
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 12, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
(throws a Jarate at Subo)
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions
...

Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
Follow me on Twitter @chris81203
by Chris Hall on Feb 12, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
I was about to say that I’m impressed with this comment section, it’s been some really intelligent discourse.
Then Subo showed up.
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by Tim Burke on Feb 12, 2012 4:04 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Sounds like a regular Sunday at BE.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
I fucking tried, man. But hey – I’ll try to address substance here:
If watching football is ok by your faith, then MMA should be too.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 12, 2012 4:05 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not trying to get banned, so all I can say is sigh. I wish that he wasn’t a fan of MMA and I wish he didn’t try to defend it if he’s going to approach Eastern philosophy with religious hubris.
It’s not religious hubris to follow one’s religion.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
I should probably expand upon that statement.
One thing that annoys me about dogmatic atheism is the assumption that following one’s religion is essentially giving the finger to people of other beliefs. Not the case.
The Bible clearly states that those who follow God should have no other gods before him. Meaning that if you’re a Christian, you don’t start worshiping Cthulhu or whatnot. When he’s talking about discouraging learning from a teacher who is pushing a different religious ideology on top of teaching you fighting techniques, he’s not saying “That guy is a douche for believing something different.” He’s saying, “You know what the Bible says, so do your best to follow it.”
It’s not hubris. It’s called conviction. I know some people misinterpret it to the point where they use their beliefs to put themselves on a pedestal, but (once again) anyone will do that with anything, because people are people.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Rec to the Third Heaven
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by Robert Cowan on Feb 12, 2012 4:23 PM EST up reply actions
???
Isn’t the whole point of atheism to not have religious dogma attached to how you live your life? Atheism is not a religion. It is the lack of it and the lack of believing in the supernatural or supreme beings.
by flashlight cop on Feb 12, 2012 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Scroll up
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
But there's a specific thing about Christianity
And that is that accepting Jesus Christ as your Lord and Personal Savior™ is THE KEY. It’s the prerequisite to heavenly ascension. If you truly believe that, then you are in fact saying that everyone that hasn’t is going to Hell, and if you don’t truly believe that, then I’d hesitate to call you a Christian.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 12, 2012 6:01 PM EST up reply actions
I've been told atheists can get into heaven by a Catholic priest.
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Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
Don't know - never asked them. I was raised Catholic and deal m ostly with Catholic priests still.
South Louisiana. Cajuns. So it goes.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
oh ok
the impression i have is that the last second deathbed confession will work regardless of denomination
Perhaps. don't know how that works.
“My good man, no is not the time to be making enemies.”
-Voltaire, on his deathbed, to a priest asking for a last-minute renunciation of the devil.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
kind of philosophical gray area.
you get into all kinds of questions regarding sincerity, coercion by the fear of the unknown, “cheap grace.”
in my opinion, the wise theologians don’t try to answer it and leave it up to God.
Orthodoxy
has the same stance. The Old Church is much more gangster about heretics than nonbelivers.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Brothers Karamazov is the best novel I've read. My history teacher was EO, and he walked us through the theology.
Annoys me that some of my non-believing friends dismiss it outright because of the religion in it. How can you not like the Grand Inquisitor or Ivan Talks with the Devil?
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:25 PM EST up reply actions
Anyone dismissing that book for those reasons
Is demonstrating the most ridiculous kind of anti-religious bigotry. And the most self-defeating. Many of the greatest works of art in history have been created for religious reasons; ignoring them for that reason is incredible philistinism in my opinion.
Hell, many of the greatest achievements of science were for the greater glory of God as well.
"You know, these guys want to talk about God. 'Oh, I want to thank God. I want to thank God.' Listen, I'm a God-fearing man, go to church every Sunday and have since I was a boy. But if I ever found out that God cared one way or another about a borderline illegal fist-fight on Saturday night, I would be so greatly disappointed that it would make rethink my entire belief system." ~ Chael Sonnen.
I maintain Dante's Divine Comedy is the greatest work of art, across any medium, humans have made.
I don’t care if it’s Christian – re-title it “fantasy” or “myth” or what-have-you, but it’s incredible.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 13, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
If you truly believe that, then you are in fact saying that everyone that hasn’t is going to Hell
That is absolutely not true.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Feb 12, 2012 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
So wait
You can get into Heaven without accepting Christ?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 12, 2012 11:23 PM EST up reply actions
Depends on the theology.
Even Dante had pagans in Purgatory…
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 11:30 PM EST up reply actions
Actually
yes you can.
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
by RolloTomasi on Feb 13, 2012 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
That is a denominational belief.
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
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Follow me on Twitter @chris81203
That's actually not true.
Big misnomer.
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
by RolloTomasi on Feb 12, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
It's almost like you haven't spent any time studying Christian beliefs at all.
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by Richard Wade on Feb 13, 2012 12:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What I find annoying
is religious zealots who think they know how I should live my life better than I do.
by flashlight cop on Feb 12, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
You're on a thin line
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by halitosis on Feb 12, 2012 4:26 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
meh
really all i have to say about this
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by Cory Braiterman on Feb 12, 2012 4:11 PM EST reply actions
MMA already has a mysogyny problem - Driscoll's demeaning of women is notorious, and I can't see how he'll bring anything good to the table. Read:
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:05 PM EST reply actions
Kid Nate already linked to the Slate article above, Scott.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Crap. I knew that. Was re-enforcing the point. Yeah, that's it...
I’m medicated right now, so not thinking as clearly as normal. Thanks.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
No worries. I’m battling major sinus pain, so the fact that I’ve made even decent points is a friggin miracle. I haven’t slept in 24 hours, and once I lay down my head feels like it will explode.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 12, 2012 6:20 PM EST up reply actions
Driscoll thinks all women should be Ring Card Girls?
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He would probably say they should walk around dressed like that.
They should sit quietly, watching the kids, and tend to their man after the fight. It’s telling that in interviews with the couple, Mrs. Driscoll rarely speaks.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 6:52 PM EST up reply actions
Busy thinking about ironing and cooking, obviously ...
disclaimer: I’m being facetious given Driscoll’s outdated social attitudes. Some people have to have it spelled out for them. The internet is serious business.
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Thing is, ring girls would be a step UP for his views.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 8:24 PM EST up reply actions
I'm so amazed that shit hasn't went bananas in here given the topic.
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Only one comment has been hidden.
I may or may not have written it (whistles innocently).
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, i had a clever picture response to it
and next i looked, poof! it be gone.
Aw. If you can't post it, tweet it or email it to me.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
nah
i realized i basically agreed with you.
'But you're using that same tactic to try to feel superior to me, too!' 'Sorry, that accusation expires after one use per conversation.'
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 7:45 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
xkcd will always get a rec from me.
Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan
by Richard Wade on Feb 13, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
I have to say BE is pretty awesome
Similarly, one can practice combat sports and learn various techniques without immersing oneself in the philosophy and culture of such activities.
I actually disagree with this as a martial artist. I find immersing oneself in the philosophy of an art helps you understand it better, and helps you adapt yourself to it. Whether it’s to use technique and not strength in bjj, learning to keep pushing hard in wrestling, floating like a butterfly and stinging like a bee in boxing or using the art of eight limbs to your fullest potential, learning the philosophy behind an art is important to truly get a small mastery of it.
by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:52 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
If you're going to get into the spirit of tradtitional Muay Thai,
there are prevalent attitudes in the art; especially in holding your ground, relentless pressure, and a willingness to go toe- to- toe with your opponent. I think that western Muay Thai (commonly identified as the Dutch style) emphasizes versatility and smart strategy.
But I don’t think it’s necessary to do all the “Namaste” stuff if you’re doing yoga. Religious belief rarely has anything to do with Martial arts.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 12, 2012 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
There's also the whole "nude Greek wrestling" things I doubt we need to revive...
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Dude, I'm sure gay dudes already have. They're just not taping it.
Dudes will be dudes.
I mean, at one point there was a league called of Naked Women’s Wrestling. Guess who came up with that stuff? A guy.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 13, 2012 2:05 AM EST up reply actions
oh they're taping it
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by Nate Wilcox on Feb 13, 2012 10:35 AM EST up reply actions
Beat me to it.
Def. taping it.
If you can think it up, it’s been done and filmed.
Oh no you didn't.--Nick Ring
by NickRingp4pGOAT on Feb 13, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
Naked Kombat.
Google it. But I can’t & won’t link to it.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 13, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
there are technical masters in wrestling
and there are brutes in BJJ
"EVERYTHING IS HAPPENING"
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by kellly on Feb 12, 2012 8:41 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
rec'd
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
I meant that when wrestling, there is a point you hit a wall
And you kind of need to dig deep and power double the wall and smash it into the ground and eat the bricks like a tasty yummy snack.
by discoandherpes on Feb 13, 2012 2:29 AM EST up reply actions
From a certain someone:
Hey gang!
My name popped up in here, and I feel the need to defend myself.
For starters, I’ll be the first to admit that I am intolerant of religion. I am also intolerant of a wide variety of other claims to the supernatural like astrology and psychics (especially those who claim to speak with the dead) and witch doctors and the like. That doesn’t mean I hate or dislike or am intolerant of INDIVIDUALS solely on the basis of their belief — to use the tired cliche, I have lots of religious friends! — but I do not feel one’s religious beliefs are immune from criticism or ridicule. If religious belief was kept out of my life, I would be much less aggressive in my nonbelief. However, one only need to turn on a Republican primary debate for evidence of this not being the case.
I understand my views and/or my outspokenness on the matter is a turnoff for certain people. I’m willing to accept that tradeoff as I find it to be an important issue for humanity and its future.
But what prompted this response is a couple of things Nate has said that I would like to address.
1) If this was a big part of my being released, it is news to me. It was never mentioned during my tenure (outside of the Fedor/Orthodox article: see below), at the time of my release, or in any correspondence I’ve had with Nate since then. It’s unfortunate that this wasn’t brought to my attention first, especially considering Nate and others refused to discuss the reasons behind my release on the basis of respecting my privacy on the mater.
2) Nate claims that I “refused to see how it didn’t help BE to alienate a major world religion and a top fighter” (in reference to the Orthodox thing). While I was disappointed to see the post pulled, I discussed it with both Brent and Nate and told them I understood why it was pulled. (If I remember correctly, Nate and I talked about it over Skype.) I don’t think the piece was as offensive as Nate makes it out to be (if you want to judge that for yourself, hit me up on Twitter for a link), and Chris Barton — an Orthodox Christian himself, as noted above — agrees with me on that point. The humor was in the absurdity of the imagery (the imagery of the words, not the images of themselves), and not in any sort of attack on the religion itself. Given Fedor’s broken record of “God’s will” at the time, I thought it was a humorous take on a relevant topic to MMA. But, again, I understand that it pushed an envelope that the other editors thought should not be pushed. Nate’s right that I probably should have discussed it with him and Brent beforehand, though I think anyone who has written for BE will tell you (and maybe things have changed in my absence) that posting is very much a laissez-faire process.
3) I don’t know what Nate’s talking about with regard to my capitalizing of the word “reason.” Perhaps I’ve done it in the past, but it certainly isn’t a habit of mine. In any case, it’s a weird thing to be peeved about.
Anyway, I hope this comment is allowed to stand and Mach doesn’t find himself in the doghouse for enabling it. It’d be nice if people stopped saying negative things about me in an arena that I am unable to defend myself. So, hit me up on Twitter or unban me or something. Or just keep doin’ whatcha doin’.
Later y’all,
Mike
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 8:27 PM EST reply actions 9 recs
free mike fagan
"EVERYTHING IS HAPPENING"
- Bob Cole
by kellly on Feb 12, 2012 8:39 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Nah.
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by MicahtheCynic on Feb 13, 2012 7:08 AM EST up reply actions
Mike is plenty free.
Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan
by Richard Wade on Feb 16, 2012 10:09 PM EST up reply actions
it wasn't really the topic per se
it was that he didn’t have a feel for what would and wouldn’t be controversial and would need to be run by Brent and I. I fuck up all the time but I generally have the sense to know when something I’m writing about may hurt the site and I run it past someone else to get a 2nd opinion. Sometimes Brent and I are both wrong!
But we can’t really have someone in an editorial position with such huge blind spots and a sense of entitlement.
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I don't get it.
Dude says it wasn’t brought up to his attention when discussing why he was let go. I mean, “huge blind spots and a sense of entitlement” seem like something he would’ve remembered had it been brought up to his attention.
This is all really strange to me.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
he knew he fucked up when i deleted the Orthodox post
that was definitely communicated to him.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
All I’m noting is that dude wasn’t aware that the orthodox post had something, if anything, to do with why he was let go.
As you said previously, it was mostly about contracts and stuff (different people want different things), which I get, but I just don’t understand that he wasn’t aware that the Orthodox post had something to do with his being leaving BE, or whatever.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 9:34 PM EST up reply actions
i dunno man
if a guy doesn’t get that posting something that gets immediately pulled is going to be a long-term black mark I don’t know what to tell him.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
I dunno either.
The publishing world, blog-wise, is all strange to me. I don’t know what exactly constitutes a long term big deal and what doesn’t. It all boils down to individual expectations, I guess.
Thanks for taking the time to address this, Nate. I appreciate it.
:)
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
greened.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 12, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
I'm confused as to why a community moderator is helping a banned member post
What’s going on here?!
Menckenstein:
(noun)
Definition: a traditional doll crafted from the stomach hair of obese, unkempt, typically diabetic men who suck at fighting. This type of doll is commonly crafted in the deep South and seems to be exclusively purchased by fans of the NBA franchise the LA Lakers, who believe the dolls give them the power to be as cool as Celtics fans.
Daniel James Miller Foundation - Please donate, every penny helps.
by menckenstein on Feb 13, 2012 9:12 AM EST up reply actions
Does you dad know?
Zing!
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Self-esteem issues? Don't believe in yourself?
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 9:28 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
A sad problem with our youth these days...
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Joe Silva probably doesn't approve of this guy, either.

The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 9:29 PM EST reply actions
I am violently neutral to that guy.
The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 9:35 PM EST up reply actions
I have never been religious and have come to think of the idea as old world thinking. But if people find happiness in those beliefs than so be it.
I think this quote fits, I heard it many years ago.
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones."
Sheeeeeeeee-it
by Clay Davis on Feb 12, 2012 9:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
Problem is when 'live a good life' starts meddling with other people's business.
No matter if you believe in the Sky Guy or in just living however you see fit while not messing with anyone, there is a latent risk that ideals will get a hold of your brain and that you will try to forcefully push people to adhere to them.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 12, 2012 9:37 PM EST up reply actions
Sounds like your describing human nature
Sheeeeeeeee-it
by Clay Davis on Feb 12, 2012 9:49 PM EST via Android app up reply actions 2 recs
Using the wrong form of you're/your is going to result in warnings from now on...
Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan
by Richard Wade on Feb 13, 2012 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
WHAT?

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by Unabomberman on Feb 13, 2012 1:52 AM EST up reply actions
Hey Grammer Police, usually I get the they’re, their, there correct. I believe i was too tired to care at that moment
Sheeeeeeeee-it
*Grammar
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by Zachary Kater on Feb 13, 2012 10:42 PM EST up reply actions
Don't sass me.
Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan
by Richard Wade on Feb 16, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Marcus Aurelius is a badass.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 9:46 PM EST up reply actions
I really enjoy his show.
I disagree with 80% of what he says, but I enjoy the honest discourse.
BECW Season 1 Champs - K-1 Level Predictions Team
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Religilous?
Funny but hollow. 90min of cheap shots.
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Feb 12, 2012 11:08 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I really didn't like that movie.
And I usually enjoy Bill Maher. Imagine that.
His whole calling religion a “Neurological Disorder” just pissed me off to no end. But his approach to Muslim culture finally did me in.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 13, 2012 12:22 AM EST up reply actions
After talking to some of the religious people I know
You would think its a “Neurological Disorder” due to the pure insanity of their arguments, and the absolute disregard for all things they were taught growing up in school. You know like paying attention to the world around them and forming their own opinions based on those observations.
Where I live those are the only religious people we have around. I’d say the vast majority of the population here is either atheist or agnostic
Sheeeeeeeee-it
My biggest problem with Maher is that he's not funny.
Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan
by Richard Wade on Feb 13, 2012 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
He's not always funny,
but he’s pretty much always entertaining. And if he isn’t saying something funny, he’s making a good point.
There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?
by ElliotMatheny on Feb 13, 2012 2:50 AM EST up reply actions
I found him more entertaining before he found his way to HBO.
Bolts from the Blue // "At least when Wade is spewing vitriol he does so with an intellectual flair." - insanebolt21
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan
by Richard Wade on Feb 16, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions
Oddly enough, my favorite Christopher Hitchens moment is when he made Maher look like a fool.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hTrzZLM0Tm4
He’s not funny, but to be quite honest I think that most of his “points” are reliant upon his audience having a shared ignorance.
A writer looking for a new home.
Part of Team Luke Thomas' Beard (LTB)
The 209: Where we don't fight unless there's five guys on one, run away from the media, cry like babies when we lose decisions, and get finished by convicted sex offenders.
Follow @TheCynicsCorner
by MicahtheCynic on Feb 13, 2012 3:17 AM EST up reply actions
Hm. I’d really prefer my MMA to have nothing to do with religion. I’d prefer it to be treated as a sport, rather than as a justification for or affirmation of a particular set of beliefs.
Regardless. Anyone else think it’s funny that Driscoll’s rebuttal of pacifistic Christianity was essentially to point out that Jesus probably didn’t have long hair?
the nonsequitor is a great option
anytime you’re facing tough questioning.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
It's nice that Driscoll is such a big fan of MMA, but I'd rather he not say anything at all.
It’s selfish, I know, but religion is one of those topics where I would rather it be as far removed as possible from something I love. Having grown up in a Catholic family, gone to Catholic school for a good portion of my childhood and now consider myself free from such chains, I’d prefer to view MMA as a sport. That said, I don’t see any conflict between how people of faith would reconcile their fondness for MMA with their beliefs. The way I see it, it could be construed as yet another human endeavour to reach excellence in the name of God. At least, it could be spun that way. Churches, just like governments, can take whatever they want and try to spin it in their favor to justify their goals. So I don’t see how anybody who is religious would have any problems justifying their love of the sport.
"You've got Floyd Mayweather making $25 million. He can't stop a double-leg..." Nick Diaz.
I haven't contributed anything to this thread
Mostly due to my inferiority complex when it comes to religion (going to a conservative Catholic University where the top major is theology will do that, I guess.) but this has been the most refreshing discussion of religion I have ever read on the internet. Christians, Athiests, and everyone in between being civil is a great thing. Everyone should be convicted in their beliefs, but don’t need to attack others who are convicted in their own specific beliefs, and if you do not have that conviction you should explore why this is the case.
LETS MUTHERFUKERS!!!!!

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