Roger Gracie signs with the UFC
by FLOJO on Feb 11, 2012 2:23 AM EST
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Roger Gracie (93kg) signs with #UFC, might train with @SpiderAnderson before his first bout. #JiuJitsu
Roger's stand up isn't great but, you can see a noticeable improvement each fight. I'm not sure how I feel about this news, considering he is still (IMO) developing and has a way to go to truly be competitive in the UFC.
Can't say I'm not excited though, and I hope he does well and surprises me in his next fight.
Who do you guys think would be a good first fight for him?
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Hell ya
I think hes the most talented mma fighter in gracie.
except rickson
Matt "The Terror" Serra!!!!
I don’t see this ending well, but at least he’ll get some cheddar.
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by Derek Suboticki on Feb 11, 2012 2:45 AM EST reply actions
See, even though all of the hoopla was made about 'Strikeforce fighters staying in strikeforce'
I don’t think there is any sort of legal way for them to tell a fighter, when his contract is up, that he has to renew it or can’t sign with the UFC.
So yeah…let’s see where this goes.
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They can’t. When Strikeforce was originally purchased by the UFC, Dana had to field a million questions about whether or not they’d fold Strikeforce into the UFC. Besides the “business as usual” phrase he kept repeating, he said that when fighters contracts were up they’d instead just sign them to UFC deals. I think they do that with all of the big fighters. I think King Mo and Gilbert Melendez are the last big name fighters to sign with Strikeforce. From here on out, it’s all UFC.
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I woulda said the mexicutioner honestly
wasn’t Beltran originally brought in to lose to a Gracie?
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by The Lethal Haze on Feb 11, 2012 2:52 AM EST reply actions
In another year, you'll have your wish
Despite getting popped for PEDs, we all know Mo is UFC caliber.
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Mo resigned with SF
Against his will, according to him.
The way he says it, the top SF fighters are basically locked in right now.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
That said
I’m sure he took a substantial base salary increase to stay in SF.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Why are Jiujitsu fighters so concerned with their stand up?
Shouldn’t Gracie really be working on his wrestling? Same with Maia.
You need to know all aspects of MMA
He should be working on his striking so he doesn’t get brained again.
by discoandherpes on Feb 11, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
That was an accidental headbutt that did him in. Roger’s striking isn’t bad, IMO.
I think M. Sphinx has a point. The problem, however, is effective wrestling benefits greatly from being athletic, which is not something I’ve seen from him (or Maia).
by paythefighters on Feb 11, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
THIS
Roger got fucked out of a win there. Not saying Mo wouldn’t have won eventually but I don’t personally consider that a loss for Gracie.
Dude, there were some actual punches that put him out, you know.
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by SSreporters on Feb 11, 2012 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
Probably
But based on watching him at the ADCCs, his takedowns aren’t awful. Good enough to take down a D-1 wrestler? No, probably not.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 11, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
We gotta remember
Its MMA.
Maia got Chael down with ease.
Anthony Pettis clowned Shane Roller in every facet of grappling.
Mackens Semezier tapped Wagney Fabiano.
Even in a wresting, Rashad Evans(48-34) beat Greg Jones(126-4), one of the greatest college wrestlers of all time.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
True
But Maia-Chael is the only real outlier there. Pettis’ offensive wrestling benefits a great deal both from his striking and his athleticism, for example, and while Roger is many things, a great athlete isn’t one of them.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 11, 2012 6:49 PM EST up reply actions
Mackens Semezier was a novice grappler
when he submitted Waggney Fabiano, a 3rd degree black belt from Team Nova Uniao.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
I know
But submitting someone isn’t the same as taking them down.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 11, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions
True
But I was just trying to make the point that while someone can be elite at a certain skill, they can still be overcome by a far inferior practitioner.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
the issue with Waggney
is he takes stupid risks and acts like his black belt meant that he became un-choke-able and doesn’t respect the submission offense of anyone in MMA, and it bit him in the ass twice.
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"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
That is to say
I actually find Roger to be a rather athletic and strong BJJ player with a great body for MMA.
I think that he could become a very proficient wrestler at 205.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
We're going to have to agree to disagree here
I’d argue that Roger’s unparalleled technique covers up his physical deficiencies. By normal standards, or even those of the submission grappling world, yeah, he’s a good athlete, but MMA is a whole new level of athleticism.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 11, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions
Compared to the Phil Davis' of the world
I agree.
But compared to the Anthony Perosh’s, I’d say he’s a pretty good MMA athlete.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Haha yeah we’re on the same page here. He shouldn’t have any problems outside the top 15, but once he starts getting to the freakish athletes in the top 10 he’ll be in trouble.
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"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 11, 2012 9:45 PM EST up reply actions
There are ways to get around a lack of athleticism
Kenny Florian isn’t a very athletic dude but is elite at virtually different weights because of his ability to improve his skill set.
Take myself for example. I’m not a great athlete, not very explosive at all. But I’m training my endurance by swimming, running, an biking every day. I can’t wrestle like some guys I know and start blasting doubles, but I try hard enough to out hustle guys in the clinch and work trips, body locks, and knee taps off of a failed takedown attempt.
by discoandherpes on Feb 11, 2012 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
Cardio
is king
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
by RolloTomasi on Feb 12, 2012 12:08 AM EST up reply actions
Sure
But I’d disagree with you about Kenny; he’s a pretty solid athlete by MMA standards, though hardly in the top tier (Aldo, GSP, Jones, etc.). You’re absolutely right that there are ways around a lack of that kind of athleticism, but I’d make the argument that it matters more at the higher weight classes. The only fighter I can think of who’s won a title at LHW or HW in the recent past who isn’t a great athlete would be Forrest, and he’s the picture-perfect example of a guy whose full skill sets and great game-planning put them at the very top of the heap.
To finish my meandering point, Roger is going to do just fine in the UFC (assuming first that this actually happens, and second that he rounds himself out a bit), but there’s always going to be a ceiling on exactly how good he can become.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 12:19 AM EST up reply actions
It does have a greater impact in the higher weight classes just because there isn’t as many high level athletes. Most of them are in other sports that pay more. I’d say the average level of athleticism in the lower weight classes is higher in general.
by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
well the issue is
in the UFC 205 lb division, he’d have to fight Phil Davis
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
That's a big issue for a lot of guys :)
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
by TheFilt on Feb 11, 2012 11:40 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And if recent history has made anything clear
It’s that you don’t have to be as good as a really top-notch grappler to avoid being submitted by them should the fight go to the ground (Jacare-Rockhold, Weidman-Maia, though the ground work was pretty brief).
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 12:20 AM EST up reply actions
yes MMA is full of elite athletes
and I think many of them are pretty solid grapplers. But they spend a fight camp before facing a real top notch grappler drilling, drilling, drilling escapes and safe positions. Hours every day.
So you get great athletes who are very practice in ways to not engage in a grappling match with the better grappler and either lock down a position and strike or stand up from a bad position.
and I think some guys are starting to train in Ameri-do-tae anti-grappling techniques…
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
if chael and maia
fought again i’d have sonnen as favourite by some stupid logic like weedman beat him
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3 rounds I might favor Sonnen in the rematch
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
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Why is this not front page news?
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the UFC nor Roger has confirmed yet
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
Light-heavyweight is crap right now. I hope they put him against Rua or the loser of Bader/Rampage. If he loses, cut him or put him back in Strikeforce (where he belongs).
Fuck you, double fingers
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scuttle-but has been Roger is looking to drop to Middleweight
and is focusing entirely on MMA. I don’t think he’ll ever be a champion in MMA, but his ground skills are certainly enough to be in the UFC.
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
Isn't he too big
To drop to MW?
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 11, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
he might be
put weight cutting isn’t a huge part of competitive BJJ. Guys have good diets but there isn’t a huge push to cut water weight. He made 205 pretty effortlessly, he is a really lengthly and not every dense sort of body. I think 185 could be in his reach.
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
I buy it
He just always looked pretty huge to me, not in terms of musculature but just the size of his frame. Now that I’m thinking about it, his technique has always neutralized any size advantage held by his opponents in grappling matches.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 11, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
Light-heavyweight is crap right now. I hope they put him against Rua or the loser of Bader/Rampage. If he loses, cut him or put him back in Strikeforce (where he belongs).
Fuck you, double fingers
- Nick Diaz
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society
- Mark Twain
hate hate hate
Just because a division has a dominant champion doesn’t make it CRAP.
Then again I watch mma for more then just who’s champ and who’s gonna be champ. I like to….ya know….watch good fights. Belts are just shiny objects to get the sheep believing it means something.
205 is a pretty terrible division, actually, and it has nothing to do with Jones
It’s very top-heavy. If you look at the fighters ranked outside the top 15 on the SBNation Consensus Rankings, I’d say BW, FW, LW and WW contain better fighters and MW and HW are about the same.
What with the aging top 15 (Shogun, Hendo, Rampage, Nog, Forrest, Franklin) and Jon Jones looking like he’s one or two levels above everyone, light heavyweight needs some new blood to supplement Gustafsson and Davis as the only young guns who look like they could become champions some day.
I doubt Roger will reach the very highest level but it’s not far-fetched to think he could make a name for himself in a poor division.
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by wonderfulspam on Feb 11, 2012 7:40 PM EST up reply actions
Couldn't agree more
It’s an economy of scarcity at LHW; the fact that we’ve seen so many great fighters at the weight over the last seven or eight years is the product of a unique set of circumstances in the history of MMA, the biggest one being Pride’s relative lack of interest in fighters smaller than 205. Those circumstances are gone, and we should enjoy the hangover until those fighters are retired.
At the same time, however, fighters at LHW tend to move from local shows to the highest level very quickly (much like HW), so we could see a whole new crop of potential contenders popping up in the near future.
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by Patrick Wyman on Feb 11, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
I agree
The elite guys at 205 are really good (even if they’re getting older) but there is a drop off in the rest of the division.
by discoandherpes on Feb 11, 2012 11:44 PM EST up reply actions
If this is happening
Who are they feeding to him? Roger’s takedowns are awful, big hole in an otherwise perfect grappling game.
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Tito maybe?
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by halitosis on Feb 11, 2012 10:19 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Ricardo Romero
I’m not sure if he wasn’t cut after that loss or not.
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by Chris Groves on Feb 11, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
JUST THE FIRST STEP TOWARDS BEATING JON JONES AMMIRITE?
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by Cory Braiterman on Feb 11, 2012 11:24 AM EST reply actions
ATTN: KING MO
Omae wa mō shindeir
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by menckenstein on Feb 11, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think they give him a tob-calibre LHW off the bat
Maybe not even top 20. We need to realize that most people don’t know that he’s arguably the most accomplished grappler currently in MMA. I see the UFC giving him somebody early on a PPV or even the final fight on FX prelims… Somebody he should be able to submit with relative ease. His last name alone makes him relatively marketable, so I doubt the UFC wants to throw him to the wolves immediately. I’d like to see him against Jason Brilz (is he still in the UFC?) or Luiz Cane… something along those lines.
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thing is
he’s going to be making mad money so they cant exactly have him fighting scrubs to pick up wins and bring him along slowly
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by Our Bovine Public on Feb 11, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
Good point
I guess the UFC will be looking to get a good return on their investment. I just think the first fight will be close to a guaranteed win.
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by Benjamin Cole on Feb 11, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Cane is dropping to Middle Weight
But still, I agree. At this point he is still a prospect.
by discoandherpes on Feb 11, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
He will catch Gurgelism anyways.
He’ll come out trying to box.
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by Unabomberman on Feb 11, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
This is gonna end badly.
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Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
He's going to get the shit beaten out of him by any fighter with striking and takedown defense
So basically that strikes off the entire top 10.
Then you’ve got the mid-tier guys like Franklin who don’t get subbed so cross him out.
They probably gave to give him someone like Jimmo.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
I think Franklin beats the dog shat outta Gracie.
Ayem jus not impress wit hees per-for-mance.
Learn JiuJitsu.
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Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
Gracie needs someone who has absolutely no grappling skills at all
So maybe they give him Diabate or something.
They absolutely cannot feed him to the lions or else it’s a wasted signing.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
SF was the place for him
but the Gracie name is a selling point for the UFC so I guess they’re gonna feed him to the lions.
Kevin Randelman type guys are NOT gonna be there for him to feast on.
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
Do people forget that Frankin beats the shit out of anyone that isn't elite
Dude brings the violence.
by discoandherpes on Feb 11, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
Obviously
I didn’t. :)
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
Well I have to say
You’re usually on point.
by discoandherpes on Feb 11, 2012 5:03 PM EST up reply actions
We agree on much
but not on Diaz.
So I hate you ;)
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
whatever brah!
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
by RolloTomasi on Feb 12, 2012 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Gracie vs Hughes III I think it would be
The intergenerational rivalry continues….
Nah man, that wasn't a slap, that was a hand trap, some deep level striking ya hear?
Would be a tad of a stretch in terms of weight classes but I don't care
Nah man, that wasn't a slap, that was a hand trap, some deep level striking ya hear?
I wish him the best but I'm not gonna keep my hopes up.
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How is a guy coming off a ko getting signed to the UFC?
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by AfroSamurai on Feb 11, 2012 5:20 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Dude loses once
By a headbutt hook combo and people think he’s garbage. Gracie will do just fine in the jiujitsu lacking light heavyweight divison.
Beating Kevin Randleman and Trevor Prangley doesn't do much for me.
Learn JiuJitsu.
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Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
Joe O'Regan of Fighter'sOnly and FrontRowBrian are both saying this isn't going to happen.
Pat Barry made a wrestle - some schmuk in texas
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