How Would Today's Top Kickboxers Do In MMA?
I don't know much about kickboxing, just a few big names (Badr Hari, Alistair Overeem, Kevin Ross), and I can think of a few fairly successful former kickboxers in MMA. So for all you kickboxing fans on B.E., how would the top kickboxers do in MMA? Does the lack of takedowns and the larger gloves make the skills of a top level fighters more applicable in boxing or MMA? Is there much crossover from kickboxing to boxing (or MMA)? Thanks in advance for helping a kickboxing newb.
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Depends a lot on the kickboxer
I think Gokhan Saki, Tyrone Spong, or Hari would do really, really well in MMA. Why? First, they’re all pretty young, so they have time to learn the new skills; second, and more important, they’re all exceptional natural athletes. With that said, if they devoted themselves completely and worked their way up through local shows, one of them might eventually crack the top 10; I don’t think there’s a whole lot of room for crossover athletes outside of heavyweight and maybe, maybe light heavyweight.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
Hari fought in MMA already
and he got sub’d in like 60 seconds.
Just sayin.
Of all those guys I’d say Spong has the best shot, mainly cuz he’s already got a camp with Rashad and others.
Learn JiuJitsu.
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Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
Yeah, Hari's stated that he has zero interest in pursuing it
Hypothetically, though, if he were to dedicate himself to MMA I think he’d do well given his physical tools.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 11, 2012 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
Sure
so would LeBron James for that matter…..actually no, I take it back.
LeBron is kind of a bitch.
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Semper Fi'
Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
Hahaha
That he is. I remember all of the articles talking about how well he’d do in the NFL a couple of years ago; the guy quit football in the first place because of a sprained wrist. Poor baby.
Hari, on the other hand, is not a bitch. Crazy? Yes. Terrifying? Absolutely. A bitch, no. He doesn’t seem to care for grappling, though, and I think that’s why he’s anti-MMA.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 11, 2012 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
I think it's more that
he’s emotional and petulant. He is an awesome kickboxer and got choked the fuck out in like a minute. That’s a huge blow to the ego. So now he’s like, “fuck that hugging shit, that’s not fighting”. He sounds bitter
by OneFitchTwoFitchRedFitchBlueFitch on Feb 12, 2012 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
He was 17 and didn't train for it.
Liver Kick, formerly HKL
Twitter @LiverKick
Based on their styles in kickboxing?
Saki has quick hips, he might have good “natural wrestling”.
Kyotaro has this hit and run style that might work.
Hari fights kind of flat footed, so he would probably land on his ass often.
Spong looks like he can do whatever and be good at it.
It’s hard to tell, really. They all would probably do better in boxing. Petrosyan, Kyshenko have great hands, Floyd Maywether Senior already said that he can make a star out of Spong.
Thai fighters probably wouldn’t try to crossover ( I can think of two who did: Malaipet not successfully, Rambaa Somdet somewhat successfully).
"I'm not the best, but I'm capable of achieving the impossible" - Anderson Silva
Floyd Maywether Senior already said that he can make astarcould of smoke out ofSponga crack rock.
Not that I don’t think Spong can’t be a very good pro boxer.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
I’m not that much into boxing, so I took his word for it.
Good thing that I didn’t buy anything from him.
"I'm not the best, but I'm capable of achieving the impossible" - Anderson Silva
by dancingChicken on Feb 12, 2012 7:41 AM EST up reply actions
Cro Cop is probably the greatest MMA fighter to cross over from kickboxing
He was really great in MMA (probably a top five heavyweight all time) but he wasn’t necessarily an elite kickboxer (even though he has some pretty dope wins).
Assuming that the top kickboxers will be the successful ones isn’t necessarily the case. We see a lot in MMA that guys who are elite in one sport (grappling or striking) don’t necessarily have as much success are guys who are elite at that discipline in the sport of MMA.
Cro Cop did what a lot of Mirko’s kickboxing contemporaries couldn’t do, stuff Coleman and beat the fuck out of him.
Cro Cop was a gatekeeper in kickboxing.
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Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
That's interesting. Never knew that.
INEPT coming for the season 2 BECW title.
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by Tim Bernier on Feb 11, 2012 10:29 PM EST up reply actions
He was still scary
Learn JiuJitsu.
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Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
by RolloTomasi on Feb 11, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
He still had wins over Aerts and Le Banner
So I can’t say he wasn’t successful or anything. But you’re right.
by discoandherpes on Feb 11, 2012 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
Oh no doubt
gatekeeper isnt an insult
If you get the label of gatekeeper it means you’ve carved out a niche.
And that’s not easy to do.
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
by RolloTomasi on Feb 12, 2012 12:12 AM EST up reply actions
Chieck Kongo is the perfect example
If you can beat him, you are ready for the next level.
Guida, too.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Guida's record is actually more impressive than his fighting
He is the beneficiary of judges weighing wrestling over effective striking and grappling.
by discoandherpes on Feb 13, 2012 2:06 AM EST up reply actions
He's 11-9
in his last 20 fights
not exactly top 5 IMO.
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
Guida is a strange guy
He always runs off a few good wins, then gets demolished by a contender.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
KenFlo absolutely destroyed him.
A brutal one sided beatdown.
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
Just a testament to how KenFlo is one of the most dedicated martial artists
That dude just kept learning new skills to make up for his lack of athleticism.
I don’t think the same KenFlo that lost to Sherk would have laid the beatdown on Guida like that.
by discoandherpes on Feb 13, 2012 8:18 PM EST up reply actions
In the UFC he's never had more than 4 wins in a row.
In the LW div, that’s not gonna get it done.
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
Cortez Kennedy is in the Hall Of Fame!!!!!!!! WE DID IT!
I chalk that up to the HW division being so much thinner
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Meaning that if you beat Kongo
You are automatically an elite HW because of the lack of depth.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
That's the point
Neither is Guida. Both guys are good litmus tests for title challengers.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
I think these are the types of guys who can have cross over success
Cro Cop wasn’t an elite pure kickboxer, but he never really needed to be because he compensated in MMA by having a good defensive grappling game. KJ Noons was never an elite boxer, but is a pretty decent mixed martial artist in a loaded division.
by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not disagreeing with you on the fact that you don't need to be elite to have cross over sucess.
But KJ Noons in boxing was nowhere near where Cro Cop was in kickboxing. Noons was a nobody in boxing whereas Cro Cop, while not elite was a gatekeeper to the elite. KJ Noons isn’t really that good of a boxer.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
I don't disagree
Still KJ Noons is a good mixed martial artist with decent wrestling and a good defensive guard. KJ Noons would beat a lot of pure boxers in an MMA match.
I don’t see someone elite being humble enough to get their ass kicked in training. I don’t think Mayweather would be cool with getting dominated by a pimply teenaged blue belt and feeling helpless in the process. Badr Hari is probably the same way. You have to be humble enough to except that in this one particular area, you are basically starting at zero.
I think guys that aren’t elite at one discipline are more inclined to open their mind and learn from getting choked out constantly in training.
by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed. Hari's statements about MMA and his only MMA fight made it pretty clear to me that he feels that way.
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Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
It could either be a learning or traumatizing an experience to a person
I wouldn’t be shocked if Hari never wants to feel that helpless again, even in a controlled environment.
by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 7:55 PM EST up reply actions
Mirko did what no one else
Save for Randy Couture could do: stop the Double Leg Takedown. And Mark didn’t even shoot in that retirement fight.
by WheelieMonkey on Feb 12, 2012 11:19 PM EST up reply actions
He destroyed Coleman pretty easily.
Impressive all things considered.
by discoandherpes on Feb 13, 2012 2:06 AM EST up reply actions
Love to see a few big names from K-1 coming over, it would help to sell shows outside of the US in Asia and Europe
The different weight classes mean a guy like Spong who already trains MMA guys might have more chance for a title, and some of the quicker dynamic guys like Kemayo and Karaev would be exciting. Just looking at the 2010 final for example though alot of those guy like Schilt, Aerts, Mighty Mo, Le Banner seem to be either too old or put off by some bad MMA experience, or would rather do Pro Wrestling and get a paycheck that way instead-fair enough to em but better a bad Mixed Martial Artist than a bad pro wrestler. I can’t remember who but there was an interview on BE not long ago saying that striking in MMA hadn’t really advanced as much as grappling, perhaps that’s one reason why wrestling is seem as such a good base.
Seeing some of the variation in KOs with dynamic kicks that just wouldn’t seem appropriate in the recent past, as well as guys who are supposed to have fantastic striking exposed by people with for example, great footwork and fight strategies maybe shows there’s still a long way to go in that department
Forgot this striking shit, let's hug each other!
Buakaw Por Pramuk
….I assume he has no ground game, but keep him away from the wrestlers and he would be KO’ing some people for sure….
formerly NeilLomaxFan
by BrothersGottaAndyHug on Feb 11, 2012 8:56 PM EST reply actions
I've always thought
Guys using a pure Thai style with the emphasis on clinch fighting would translate fairly well to MMA, assuming they added a sprawl and some basic guard work. Buakaw would be amazing at whatever he tried, I’m a total mark for him.
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"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Feb 12, 2012 3:20 AM EST up reply actions
One of the best stand up fighters alive
Raymond Daniels got choked out by a basically unknown fighter in something like 2 minutes.
And he is a bad, bad mofo.

Check out his highlights
The guys he’s KOing in the point fighting matches are high level black belts and Olympic medalists in Kempo/Tae Kwon Do/Shotokahn etc.
It sucks but I think only a few guys, like Spong who actually train with or even have access to world class MMA camps with great high level MMA wrestlers have a chance.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
by TheFilt on Feb 12, 2012 3:28 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
He’s definately athletic and has swagger, but I never trusted guys that fight in that silly pants.
I had a DVD with fights of Ramon Dekkers and there was a tournament with guys from all over the world. Guys who fought in pants got knocked out or carried out of the ring because they couldn’t walk. It was the same history when I watched career of Rob Kaman.
"I'm not the best, but I'm capable of achieving the impossible" - Anderson Silva
by dancingChicken on Feb 12, 2012 7:51 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't consider guys fighting their pro careers in the WCL and sport Karate in the states, some of the best stand up fighters alive.
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Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
I also wouldn’t consider him one of the best in neither sports karate nor the kickboxing style he competed in (full contact). Despite what wiki would have you believe Battle of Atlanta, the Rolex challenge or the irish open aren’t major sport karate competitions. The WCL in full contact doesn’t amount to much, there’s a much more legit scene for it in Europe. I’m not saying he isn’t good or anything but calling him one of the best stand up fighter alive is definitely a big exageration.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
This is also why I'm not really sold on Thompson yet.
People make a bigger deal of those kickboxing credentials than they should IMO.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6yek81uV6I
^ Thompson vs Daniels in the WCL.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
If he can fix his stance he might do well. We’ll find out when he fights Brown. If you can beat Brown you belong in the Ufc
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by TheLastEmpress on Feb 12, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, I'm not saying he's not good or won't amount to anything.
If he beats Brown, he belongs but I’ll wait to see him do it and maybe someone else before I hop on the bandwagon.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
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by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
In his case
I think that black belt in JJ he has is going a long way.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
I'm not so sure about what weight that holds too.
IIRC his black belt is in traditional JJ, not in BJJ. I don’t know what style he has it in and at what age he got it. I don’t really know what to make of it. The fact that he trains with Carlos Machado is a very good sign though.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
Its JJ, that’s that’s far, far better than nothing.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
That's a huge, huge maybe
Some of it rivals the kind of aikido that’s worse for fighting than knowing nothing.
by WheelieMonkey on Feb 12, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions
Very true
I was thinking of the real deal traditional JJ.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Originally
There was only Jiu Jitsu.
Judo was created from that hundreds of years later by Jigoro Kano.
BJJ was made from Judo.
JJ is essentially a well-rounded, all purpose TMA.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
I know, I started (and still practice) with traditional JJ.
There’s just so many styles out there that just calling something JJ doesn’t really give you a precise idea anymore.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
When it's Japanese, it's spelled jujutsu
by WheelieMonkey on Feb 12, 2012 11:32 PM EST up reply actions
AHe
Thank you for the clarification.
My wife is Japanese and she wouldn’t know the difference. :P
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Great video
In MMA, Thompson would probably take Daniels down.
That would have been a TKO loss followed by a year layoff.
DANIELS Y U NO WRESTLE?!
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Wow he looked terrible
Just flailing his arms wildly like that smh
I’m not resting until I’m officially Anderson Silva status.- Jon "Bones" Jones
I dunno
I knew most people wouldn’t agree, but just watching him shows me that there is very, very few guys in the world with his ability.
Machida came from a similar background.
In terms of his technique and ability to apply those techniques, the man is on a very, very high level. Out of 7 billion people(to quote Ben Saunders), there’s maybe a 100 guys in the world with those kind of MA credentials and actual fighting experience.That’s what I based my statement on.
Just because he chose not to compete in K-1 doesn’t mean he couldn’t have done well.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
The karate scene in the states is a mess. The problem to me is the competition he’s faced and the style he competed in. I don’t think his style would have led him to success in K1. And from what I’ve seen of him I’d also pick a few guys to beat him in full contact too.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
I should add
He’s won a lot more prestigious tournaments than the Battle of Atlanta.
Sport karate world titles:
2000 – Men’s light heavy point sparring world champion
2000 – Men’s light heavy continuous sparring world champion
1999 – Men’s light heavy point sparring world champion
1999 – Men’s light heavy continuous sparring world champion
1998 – Men’s light heavy point sparring world champion
1998 – Men’s light heavy continuous sparring world champion
1998 – Adult traditional self-defense world champion
1997 – Junior boys’ team sparring
http://www.karatetournaments.com/news/S010901_02.htm
This is 10 years old and he’s won numerous titles since then, including the Diamind Nationals.
He’s widely regarded as one of the best sport Karate fighters ever.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Who sanctioned those?
The most widely accepted sanctioning body for sport Karate is the WKF. Those aren’t WKF titles, I’m not saying they’re worthless but I’d like to know where they came from. Also I’m not a fan of 12 years old black belts and self defense championships. I’m not trying to give you shit but there’s so many organizations and style in Karate, especially in the US that it’s really difficult to assess the ability of guys who compete in it.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Also I’m not a fan of 12 years old black belts and self defense championships.
He’s won the Diamond Nationals 5 times since then. The last time being 2007.
He’s won in the NASKA/NBL. He won the Irish Open last year. The Mexico Open in 2009. The list goes on and on.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
He's in no way a 'self-defense' champion
The man has won championships in everything from forms to full contact, to continuous sparring.
Just google him and read about his reputation and role in sport Karate. If you search his name followed by ‘champion’ you’ll see how many tournaments and titles he’s won. Its nothing short of amazing.
He is almost universally regarded as one of the best point Karate fighters in history by almost any MA site or magazine.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
1998 – Adult traditional self-defense world champion
It’s there in your list, but it’s not very fair from me to bring that up as it’s not really relevant.
Those titles are apparently WAKO titles which are pretty legit. His sport karate background seems pretty legit. But we call that light contact around here. What we call sports karate is what the WKF does.
They are handled by two different federations here, the karate federation holds competitions in WKF rules and is seen as martial art, and the full contact federation handles the light contact competition but even if they stemmed from karate are now considered combat sports, it has influenced the style of fighting as in full contact competition( WCL rules but held in a ring) the fighters mostly got rid of the Karate stance to adopt a stance closer to kickboxing or boxing.
So I wasn’t looking at the right place to get info. He seems pretty amazing at light contact and full contact but I still have trouble calling someone coming from his background one of the best stand up fighters alive. I may be biased by my background though, karate wise I’m from kyokushin and now train stand up in boxing and muay thai.
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Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
Kyokushin is awesome
I think Kenpo is the best/most effective form of Karate.
Its basically Muay Thai.
He’s a 6th dan black belt in Kenpo and Shotokan. 5th dan in Tae Kwon Do.
The reason I rate him that high is because he’s got such a thorough and proven skill set and ridiculous physical gifts.
I agree that a great Muay Thai fighter would probably beat him, but that would only because of the clinch, IMO.
In the same token, I don’t believe Lyoto would have done well in K-1 either. Saki doesn’t care about your footwork, he wants to destroy your legs anyway.
IMO, without the benefit of grappling/clinching, almost any man in the world would have a terrible time trying to fight him.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Kyokushin is the shit.
Might not be the most realistic striking art as far as rulesets go, but it’s one of the most grueling and brutal rulesets I trained in. You’re basically just standing there blocking and throwing back. It’s awesome, I did a few rounds last week after quite some time, it’s just a super fun sparring ruleset.
Kenpo isn’t really karate per se, although it has a lot of common roots. Once again the diversity of styles make it a bit difficult to really have a precise idea of what people are talking about just going with kenpo as a definition but there’s a lot of good to be found in there.
There’s also a lot of great styles that stemmed from Kyokushin:
Shidokan, which is Kyokushin with a bit of clinching and ground work, plus the last round is with gloves and muay thai rules.
Seidokaikan, which has kickboxing rounds. It’s the style founded by the foundator of K1.
And one of the most interesting :
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1pc4x_daido-juku-kudo-hl_sport
Kudo Daido Juku, Fight with a helmet anything goes on the feet, including elbows and headbutts, and you can fight on the ground for 30 seconds periods of times with strikes to the body, submissions and simulated GnP or stomps to the head brings you points.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 9:28 PM EST up reply actions
Its hardcore
There’s no doubt about that.
You’re right, Kenpo can be very different. Its like a potluck version of Karate from what I’ve read and heard.
Hawaiian Kenpo is the real deal, IMO.
Thanks for the link. Those are some really interesting TMA’s.
It’s kind of amazing that actually study and practice such a particular(yet effective and realistic) fighting style.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
"Kenpo" casts a much wider net
Of aliveness and consistency than Kyokushin or other, less known knockdown styles.
by WheelieMonkey on Feb 12, 2012 11:36 PM EST up reply actions
Mind explaining what you mean?
I’m not a native english speaker and I don’t know what you mean there.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
I think
He’s saying what you are.
That Kenpo could be great or so-so depending on what style.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Thanks for the info
Never trained Karate, I’ve always been a huge fan and avid reader on the art.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Full contact fight here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxJWlBAeSfk
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 8:20 PM EST up reply actions
Its seems just like K-1
I’ll have to check out more.
I forgot to mention he also has ISKA title, which carry some weight in the Karate world, IMO.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
No kicks under the waist, footsweeps allowed, no clinches.
That and the number of rounds are basically the only differences with K1, if memory serves, K1 held some fights under those rules back in the day.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 9:06 PM EST up reply actions
Under that rule set
I could see Daniels doing really well.
I don’t know how I didn’t notice the lack of low kicks. :P
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
That's basically the ruleset he competed in in the WCL.
I think he could do well but I wonder how the difference in stances and the fact that guys here focus more on the hands than on the kicks would affect him, i’ve seen guys with a similar style to his get handled in full contact but they admittedly probably weren’t at his level. But the difference in styles usually bothers them a lot.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 9:44 PM EST up reply actions
His hands are nasty, but they’re only offensive.
For that kind of fighting he’d really have to use a Muay Thai guard.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
If you’re interested here’s a great kickboxing fight between a guy from full contact (Samir “petit prince” Mohamed, guy in the red shorts, went something like 118-0 in full contact and kickboxing combined before his first loss) and a muay thai fighter (Kamel Jemel, black shorts, one of the best muay thai fighters from france):
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1odr8_kamel-jemel-vs-samir-prince-ii-part_sport
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
That really was a great fight
The point fighter hang tough for a guy that didn’t come from a Muay Thai background.
He hung tough and then started to get in Jemel’s ass a little bit.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Haha
And this my friends is why we preview before hit ‘post’.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Jemel was 107-7 with 82 KOs.
Samir was 110-0 with 75 KOs. I wouldn’t call him a point fighter though, I don’t think he’s ever competed in light contact or sport karate.
That was a rematch of a fight which Samir won a year prior.
That spinning back kick in the 4th was awesome. Not sure if you saw but there’s 3 more rounds in part 2 on the right.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 11:34 PM EST up reply actions
You're right
I should have said Karate fighter.
When you’ve fought(and won) that many times, you have to be relaxed as hell in there, no matter what style you come from.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
We'd call him a "fulleur" here, as full contact has pretty much severed ties with Karate and is a sport of its own here.
Comes from Valera’s lifetime ban (since lifted) from the french Karate federation after punching a ref in long beach. Full contact developped separately from Karate here in the late 70’s. That and the huge boom of muay thai in the mid to late 80’s here contributed to the differences in styles with full contact in America IMO.
Samir is an amazing fighter, truly a pleasure to watch.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 13, 2012 12:29 AM EST up reply actions
So do people practice Savate?
I heard fighters like Karl Amoussou and Chieck Kongo were Savate fighters.
Or is that a general term for French kickboxing?
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Savate isn't that popular here in fact.
It’s a sport of it’s own, the rules are kickboxing with shoes but you must hit with the foot and (theorically, the refs don’t enforce it that much) not the shin. The scoring system differs a bit from kickboxing to favor kicking, basically if you start a combination of punches they only count for one point until you land a kick. Punch kick punch=3 points
Punch punch kick=2points.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnGaqQhvoVc
It’s a pretty technical style of kickboxing, pretty fun to watch. But it’s hurt by the lack of pro structure and thus exposure. The top guys often end up competing in kickboxing to make money.
Karl Amoussou isn’t a savate fighter, it doesn’t necessarily shows in his style but he’s actually a judo guy, he’s just pretty much fallen in love with muay thai when he started MMA. His brother Bertand was a ju-jutsu and judo champion and is the only french to win a fight in pride. He’s now one of the leading men lobbying for the legalization of MMA in France.
Cheick Kongo is a muay thai guy. Muay thai is much more popular here, in fact.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 13, 2012 7:26 AM EST up reply actions
I know he’s a Judo guy, but I’ve read he practiced Savate growing up two.
I know Chieck is a Muay Thai, too. But he’s also a Svate champ, IIRC.
That’s why I was confused as to what it actually is, because both guys can get down right primal in their striking(especially the Psycho).
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Karl is apparently listed as a Savateur on some sites.
I never heard of it personally, might have a bit of a background in it but I don’t think it’s enough to really consider him as a Savate fighter, if he did as a youngster he was much more focused on Judo at the time.
I’m fairly sure Cheick isn’t though, but he trained in Pencak Silat under Charles Joussot who has a pretty extensive background in Savate, so maybe that’s where it came from. Once again I don’t think he’s competed, at least not extensively and I wouldn’t consider it his background.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 13, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
You are really dropping knowledge today btw
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
my question is
if he’s so good why didn’t HE go to the olympics? Why didn’t he fight in K1? He chose to stay fighting in point fighting tournaments and in Chuck Nori’s modified kickboxing league. And he got choked out pretty easily. Not impressed. Also, he is FAR from being one of the “best stand-up fighters alive”
by OneFitchTwoFitchRedFitchBlueFitch on Feb 12, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
I actually think high level strikers in MMA are better stand up fighters than guys who only do kickboxing
What’s the point of having masterful striking if you can’t use it against a guy who can grapple?
by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 12:56 PM EST up reply actions
Why do you think that? Again, I know very little about kickboxing, but if you have to spend half your time grappling and half your time striking as opposed to a guy who spends all his time striking, shouldn’t the second guy be better at striking?
Fuck you, double fingers
- Nick Diaz
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by TheLastEmpress on Feb 12, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions
Whats the point in having masterful striking?
If you can’t utilize it against an average wrestler? A guy like Machida or Liddell impresses me more because they can implement their striking game against nearly any opponent.
by discoandherpes on Feb 12, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
IRL
A guy like that would KO the vast, vast majority of people before the shot even came.
Even Badr Hari is a terrible MMA fighter. Its just a different sport completely.
But I do see your point.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
I completely agree
JDS, Spider are true strikers
I’m not resting until I’m officially Anderson Silva status.- Jon "Bones" Jones
And he got choked out pretty easily.
That was the entire point of my post.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
Point fighters have an even harder time making the jump to MMA.
Someone with expert knowledge of Muay Thai or boxing already has a foot in the water, a fighter like Tyrone Spong could learn some defensive wrestling and become a very good mixed martial artist. Point-Karate and Taekwondo fighters have a much tougher time adapting, since their styles involve a lot of techniques that could be considered glaring flaws in MMA or kickboxing, especially in striking defense.
In my opinion, a fighter like Daniels would probably get knocked out by most higher level kickboxers, although he would have a chance to surprise them with novel techniques. The same goes for Thompson, the way he keeps his hands low in the point-karate style is a terrible idea, and he’ll pay for it against a good striker.
Yeah unless they're named Machida (and that didn't work so good for Shinzo),
adapting your stance and hands positions to kickboxing or MMA from points karate and WCL brand of kickboxing is hard as fuck. That’s why full contact, with the development of muay thai and kickboxing got rid of the karate stance to adopt more of a kickboxing stance here. In fact most of the guys competing in full contact here also compete in kickboxing and muay thai depending on the fight opportunities.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
There are a lot of seriously elite level kickboxers who have talked about making this transition in the past year – Tyrone Spong, Gokhan Saki, Andy Souwer – and while I would hate to lose any of them from kickboxing, it would be interesting to see someone like that in MMA.
One good example to watch is Cosmo Alexandre. He’s a Muay Thai fighter from Brazil – very good and among the elite in the world in his weight class (77kg). He’s been training MMA and was signed by Bellator last year where he’s 1-1. I’m intrigued to see how he does from here.
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by Fraser Coffeen on Feb 12, 2012 10:06 PM EST reply actions
Souwer said he is interested?
I missed that, I’d like to see him give it a shot.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 12, 2012 10:12 PM EST up reply actions
He did, though he hasn’t talked about it since. He would be an interesting one to transition as he has a lot of experience in Shootboxing, which includes throws and chokes and is a step between kickboxing and MMA. Check out this badass picture of him choking out Hinata like he’s an 80s action movie villain:

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by Fraser Coffeen on Feb 13, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Yup, the shootboxing background is why I'd like to see him try it.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 13, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
This picture is just badass as fuck.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 13, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions
Isn’t it? It’s like the scene in an action movie where the bad guy kills the hero’s partner about halfway through. Brutal, cold, and awesome.
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by Fraser Coffeen on Feb 13, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly! Andy's facal expression just screams action movie bad guy.
I’m pretty sure there’s Bruce Willis somewhere out of frame.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 13, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Facial*
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Feb 13, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions
Cosmo Alexandre still needs to adapt his muay thai game to MMA
They have him a guy who would exclusively strike with him and he still dropped a decision in his first fight.
by discoandherpes on Feb 13, 2012 2:08 AM EST up reply actions
He showed a lot of improvement in his (brief) second fight. The first fight he had troubles finding his range and didn’t adapt well. Jury is still out if he can make the transition, but I think he’s a work in progress that shows promise.
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by Fraser Coffeen on Feb 13, 2012 11:52 AM EST up reply actions

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