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Random thoughts: Jones' striking (GIF party!)

I’m not a big fan of Jones’ striking in general
I've seen this sentiment a lot, but it's hard to reconcile that with the fact that he's completely dominated the striking against Shogun/Rampage, and while he "struggled" in the 1st round, he then proceeded to knock down Machida. That's probably #'s 1, 2, and 3 on top of the "LHW strikers" list. I'm no striking expert, but I think it's safe to say it must be pretty hard to deal with Jones on the feet.

Star-divide


I know I've firmly attached myself to his nuts around here, but Jones' MMA striking game is straight dominant. I see why people don't seem to be impressed with his striking since he doesn't set anything up very well or really even string together combos. He probably would get waxed in a straight kickboxing match, but this ain't kickboxing, and his wrestling/reach/creativity combo make range such a difficult problem. #1 his insanely good clinch game makes it impossible for anyone to really stay in a comfortable offensive position #2 he's a deadly accurate puncher #3 he's going to have the reach advantage on everyone from the outside.

Everyone is so terrified of clinching with Jones that it basically means that no one is willing to engage offense at close range. Jones can throw from distance, close in and have virtually no fear of getting hit because if he gets inside, everyone is just trying to play pure clinch defense. Perfect example:
Vfxuno_medium

via i43.tinypic.com

Jones telegraphs by jumping in, doesn't really create an angle (if anything Machida is set up well here orthodox), and the exaggerated head movement---while making the first punch miss---leaves himself wide open for an uppercut or MT knee. Even still, his exceptional accuracy lets him connect on the blind punch, and he doesn't have to fear the counter because Machida is playing clinch defense, reaching for an underhook(?) instead of firing a 2nd shot. Jones can push away back out of range and win the exchange. Also worth mentioning is that Machida is demonstrating the dangers of going for the hand trap here.

It's easy to say Machida should be throwing a followup, but here's what happens when he lets Jones get an underhook clinch. Machida has an underhook and it doesn't do him any good. Similarly, everyone noted how Rampage managed to stay off his back for the first 2.5 rounds, but that came at the expense of completely abandoning any offense in close. This of course is a better idea than Shogun/Bader/Everyone letting themselves get thrown through the mat and hellbowed.

But even when he got hit by Machida, he can back up/circle and just the threat of the clinch got Machida to hold off for the extra second he needed to get back to safety.
A5ewc7_medium

via i42.tinypic.com

This one illustrates everything that makes it hard to strike with Jones. Machida actually lands, but Jones threatens a clinch---Machida defends but that buys Jones the opportunity to get out of range---Machida comes up short. Machida tries to kick---Jones halfway threatens a TD making Machida back up, Jones hits the knee while backing out of range---Machida comes up short. Machida simply can't stay close enough AND out of Jones' clinch and this is probably the best range management fighter at LHW. It's really hard to string together enough punches to really hurt Jones, and this is the last offense Machida is able to attempt.

And if you just let Jones play a distance game:
6_medium

via 3.bp.blogspot.com

Not that those are damaging or great strikes by any means, but it just illustrates that he can throw literally whatever he wants with zero risk at that range. Same thing in the Shogun fight, same thing in every fight.

So let's recap: you can't let Jones play at his range and you really can't let Jones clinch. You basically have to hit Jones as he throws---which is what Machida awesomely did in the 1st round. But what happened after the first punch?
4_medium

via 2.bp.blogspot.com

Jones threatens a clinch, and Machida is forced to stop his flurry. You've gotta hit that sweet spot AND have the power to really knock Jones down on the first try since it's just so hard to maintain the aggressiveness. That sequence right there is about the best you're going to get if you can't knock him down on the 1st shot. Jones' defense here when backing up is also vastly better compared to what it was when he was running away against Rampage just a couple months prior.

And even then if you're good enough for all that:
Rwkhtk_jpg_medium

via i43.tinypic.com

New recap: #1 have elite wrestling to stay off your back without having to sell offense down the river, #2 time Jones' strikes almost perfectly and #3 be in the right range. Got all that? Well, you also have to hope he hasn't adjusted to land a half-superman left hook from southpaw that he adjusts mid-punch to hit a moving target. Lost in all the goofy choke-drop hullabaloo: that's an unbelievable mid-fight adjustment and just a crazy punch.

Everyone has their puncher's chance (especially Henderson), but I really struggle to see anyone who can legit outstrike Jones in an MMA fight for >3/5 rounds if Shogun, Rampage, and Machida can't. The margin for error is just so small. Machida threaded the needle for a couple of significant punches, but Jones adjusted and worked him in the 2nd.

If you're going beat him standing, I think you're going to have to turn the tables by making Jones fear a TD. Aside from the fact that who knows how good his game is off his back, offensively neutralizing/winning the TD/clinch game is the real key. It'd open up the mid-range, which is the only place you can hit him---otherwise you're stuck in the same place everyone else. Maybe Rashad/Davis could do that, but there's a reason everyone is going to be a +400 or worse underdog.

And even that's ignoring that Jones is improving his striking everything at an alarming rate.

The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

Comment 40 comments  |  14 recs  | 

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Good write up

What is also cool about that Superman punch is that his corner told him that Lyoto is trying to counter the leg kicks. Despite it being about 4 minutes later he still remembered that and threw the fake at the perfect time.

by HaterSlayer on Jan 10, 2012 4:30 AM EST reply actions  

Well he also had to eat another right hand to prove it

But yeah. Like I said in another thread, as much shit as Greg Jackson got for telling Rashad to counter the counters……that’s how Jones won the fight.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 10, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Like it.

No, you're not drunk. I am this good-looking.

by IKiIIed007 on Jan 10, 2012 4:46 AM EST reply actions  

what if someone tries to outwrestle jones instead of outstrike him

maybe that’s the key to beating jones

maybe he ain’t got so much off his back?

whoa.

by Pyrgz Krum on Jan 10, 2012 5:06 AM EST reply actions  

The problem with that is you'd likely have to shoot from the middle of nowhere

That does seem like the strategy right now, but I have a feeling Jones will just sprawl and brawl

by HaterSlayer on Jan 10, 2012 5:53 AM EST up reply actions  

But

Can he sprawl and brawl with Mo Lawal?

Mo’s also got a 78" reach, so he wouldn’t be at quite as far out of range as most guys.

"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva

"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson

by TheFilt on Jan 10, 2012 10:46 AM EST up reply actions   2 recs

that's gonna be a good fight

"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be." - Kahlil Gibran

by merryprankster on Jan 10, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I always forget how long is reach is.

"Computer being attacked by virus contracted from watching illegal japanese schoold girl porn. Bare with me." - Our Bovine Public

Captain of The Bus Feeders, Bloody Elbow Civil War, Season Two

by T.C. Engel on Jan 10, 2012 8:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Dude

That just sounded good. +1

by DankNabbot on Jan 10, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe I'm wrong

But I doubt you’re going to consistently be able to outwrestle a guy who has absolutely waxed every wrestler he’s fought so far—-I mean that’s his biggest strength and why he is good. His wrestling is what everyone fears. But I also don’t think you have to consistently outwrestle him to open up holes in the striking game that Machida/Jackson/Shogun just can’t. Just one takedown is going to change a lot in his striking game—-although of course the people with the wrestling to take him down probably don’t have the striking tools to plug those holes either. Again I’m not saying he’s unbeatable, but he’s a -400 or better favorite to every LHW for a reason.

Also I’d imagine that for a guy as dedicated to training as he seems to be, he’d have been training off his back pretty extensively considering he basically fought like 5 wrestlers in a row. And while they are just throwaways at the end of rounds, he did pull guard going for a triangle against Jackson and go for that leglock vs. Shogun, so he seems to have been studying jits pretty hard. Don’t get me wrong, his bottom game is absolutely going to be the best place you can fight him, but I don’t think he’s going to have completely neglected that.

Not afraid to nitpick

by joker24 on Jan 10, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe sneaky jits is the way to go? Sweeps and arm drags could yield some results, though even in the best of situations, it requires one to have Jones in guard. I can’t think of a worse place in the world outside of the bear exhibit at the zoo during feeding time. And that’s just a maybe.

"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR

by Rundownloser on Jan 10, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

plus

if he’s on his back I’m sure he’d find someway to throw a destructive glancing elbow that completely shreds someones face.

The key to beat him might be someone who can take advantage of those long arms and slap on a sneaky armbar.

Rousey!

"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be." - Kahlil Gibran

by merryprankster on Jan 10, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Her armbars are hardly sneaky

Ruining Your Special Night with all caps and the like. Be prepared to be disappointed. But not by us. Because of us.... We're not disappointing, it's the things we say to you, and.... fuck it, everyone else sucks. Mmkay?

by halitosis on Jan 10, 2012 6:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

good write up

i’ve always said, you can like him or hate him, you can speculate about how good he might be in situations we haven’t seen yet, but right now jones has shown no weaknesses and amazing strengths (the subs from unorthodox angles particularly blow my mind).

also: rampage’s performance is more impressive in hindsight. he still got choked out, and didn’t win a round, but your post does a great job of showing why he fought the way he did.

by Clifford J on Jan 10, 2012 1:17 PM EST reply actions  

Rampage kind of justifies my article saying that he would be the best person to beat Jon Jones

The problem is Rampage didn’t use all his tools. I think if he would have attempted some takedowns and such then he could have posed dome problems. Boxing and counter wrestling Jones isn’t going to work.

by HaterSlayer on Jan 10, 2012 1:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Has Rampage EVER used his wrestling to take someone down? I honestly can’t remember him doing that.

by Shnak on Jan 10, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Not a fan of PRIDE?

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe

by pdl on Jan 10, 2012 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Anything that happened in Pride isn’t relevant nowadays… that was like 10 years ago. Let it go man, Pride is dead.

by Shnak on Jan 11, 2012 7:50 AM EST up reply actions  

Meh, I suppose. Got me. I should’ve said “IN THE UFC” somewhere in there, or “RECENTLY”. Either way, my point still stands, Rampage forgot he was even a wrestler at some point. Jones handled him on the ground like he was an amateur.

by Shnak on Jan 11, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Thanks for the great analysis

I can’t help but wonder when people aren’t impressed by anything he does in spite of his win streak. The guy is a beast and a prodigy.

I’m actually looking forward to him eventually fighting Rashad since I believe Rashad has a good combination of speed, power, and wrestling to be an interesting challenge, and the storyline sells itself.

You state that in order for someone to succeed against Jones you have to basically thread a needle and find the right range, and deliver a heavy shot that is timed just right. Rashad’s speed should help with that. I don’t think he’ll walk away with the win, but I do think if anything it’s going to be a great fight.

I can’t say the same for Hendo, who is just too plodding and willing to soak up damage for effect.

by Jabroni on Jan 10, 2012 2:39 PM EST reply actions  

I love Dan, but did you see how many times he got hit in his last fight? The guy isn’t getting any faster and that plodding hunting for the big shot strategy will only get him in trouble like it did Rampage. The guy is even slower than Rampage!

And if he goes for a clinch to dirty box, he’s going on a ride or going to be choked out either standing or when he’s on the ground after he gets thrown.

by Jabroni on Jan 10, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

LIVER PUNCH

what if a nasty hit to the body

is all it would take to stop Jones

by Rucker on Jan 10, 2012 3:11 PM EST reply actions  

Liver punches are hard to land on the spot

It’s awesome when they do land, but it’s not like people go down instantly from every body blow. It is a “button” just like the chin. There is also the problem of getting close enough to land one.

by HaterSlayer on Jan 11, 2012 5:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Like the one Jones landed on Shogun to make him tap to strikes?

by Shnak on Jan 11, 2012 7:51 AM EST up reply actions  

Anderson Silva

Might be the only person to be able to thread that needle and connect with a KO blow. Front kick, jab, etc, he has it all. Awesome Thai clinch as well, and can potentially sub from bottom position although I don’t think he’ll be looking great if he lets Jones TD.

by Arca MMA on Jan 10, 2012 11:08 PM EST reply actions  

The one weakness I do see from him is his length

When he is in the guard, he leaves his arms in very deep (not his “fault” per se, just got big lanky arms), and a great BJJ guy of his back might have a chance to sub him.

Though, that might have been true early last year, because he did show some awesome passes vs Shogun that made it look effortless.

Go Orange(men)!

by SUmonkey on Jan 11, 2012 9:02 AM EST reply actions  

Ok. Here’s a question for you. Who’s a great BJJ guy off his back at LHW that also wouldn’t get his face broken by Jones?

by Shnak on Jan 11, 2012 10:38 AM EST up reply actions  

......ummmmmm........

I know of one at MW.

Go Orange(men)!

by SUmonkey on Jan 11, 2012 11:06 AM EST up reply actions  

Anderson had all he could handle with Sonnen… he definitely doesn’t want to spend more than 2 seconds off of his back with Jones in his guard. If you think Anderson cried when he lost to Chonan, wait until he faces Jones!

by Shnak on Jan 11, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Regardless of outcome

Would love to see that fight. Cause GSP/Spider ain’t happening.

Go Orange(men)!

by SUmonkey on Jan 11, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Chael had all he could handle with Anderson

Silva was never in any trouble on the mat. Not once was there a danger of a stoppage.

"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva

"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson

by TheFilt on Jan 11, 2012 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Anderson’s guard was really, really lazy though. He basically locked up his legs to keep Sonnen from passing and then decided posture wasn’t worth controlling. So he laid on his back and let Sonnen punch him for 4 1/2 rounds. This is especially evident in the first.

You’re right that the fight wasn’t close to being stopped, but it’s not like Anderson shut down Chael’s offense from guard either.

Share for share, share alike, you'll get struck each time I strike.

by gzl5000 on Jan 11, 2012 9:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Wait, I was thinking Paul Harris?

Cause he’d eat Jon Jones’ skinny little leg for warm up

New author at Head Kick Legend

by Luke Nelson on Jan 12, 2012 12:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Guard does not apply to Jon Jones.

He gave Vera his arm so he could smash his face in. The man’s limbs are just too long and his posture is too good, he can elbow you from the distance a normal person would have to punch, and he’s so strong it’s very difficult to keep your body close enough.

Share for share, share alike, you'll get struck each time I strike.

by gzl5000 on Jan 11, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

This

People go back to the Vera fight a lot. That was part of their game plan. Greg Jackson noticed that Vera likes to get wrist control when someone is in his guard. So they were letting him do that and then hitting his face with unblocked elbows.

by HaterSlayer on Jan 11, 2012 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

MIZ

BLCFPC FTW

by cmons on Jan 11, 2012 4:52 PM EST via Android app reply actions  

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