Strikeforce: Rockhold vs. Jardine Results and Post-Fight Analysis
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 8, 2012 12:56 AM EST
in Strikeforce Analysis
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People with common sense knew that Keith Jardine stood little chance against Luke Rockhold in their Strikeforce main event tonight. Jardine's only two wins since the start of 2009 were against Francisco France and Aron Lofton, going 2-5-1 in that span. To make matters worse, this was also his first ever fight at middleweight.
So why did he get the shot? That's a simple question to answer. Depth.
Once Tim Kennedy was hurt and unable to fight Jardine there just weren't any other options. And that makes Rockhold's post-fight interview all the more telling. In the cage, after stopping Jardine with a brutal assault of punches in the first round, Rockhold pointed out that all the top ten talent is in the UFC and that those are the guys he wants to face. And rightfully so. Rockhold is a talented, young fighter with tons of upside.
So we have Gilbert Melendez wanting to prove he's the top lightweight in the world with no one who can really challenge him on the Strikeforce roster, no heavyweight division anymore, no light heavyweight champion, a middleweight champion talking about wanting to fight UFC fighters, and no welterweight champion (more on that shortly). Then Cyborg tests positive and the women's 145 division is basically disolved. It's hard to see the long-term viability of Strikeforce in it's current form.
- To go back to the fight itself, Jardine's strategy was fine. He was looking to pick his spots and get in with straight shots and avoid return fire, but it still felt like countdown to when the shot that finished him off would land.
- Again, Luke Rockhold is a phenomenal fighter with a tremendously bright future.
- In the co-main event, Robbie Lawler proved that he still has his best asset, tremendous one-punch power. Amagov looked fine early but Lawler reacted with fierceness to an illegal knee by Amagov and blitzed him with a flying knee and series of punches.
- "King Mo" Muhammed Lawal against Lorenz Larkin was another common sense outcome. Larkin is a guy who is still developing and, again, lack of depth meant that he was forced into a fight he simply wasn't ready for. Lawal took him down and brutalized him. There's not much more to say about this at all.
Much more after the jump...
SBN coverage of Strikeforce: Rockhold vs. Jardine
- Tyron Woodley is actually flaming out as a prospect despite still not having lost a fight. His bout with Jordan Mein was almost unbearable to watch. He stuck to getting takedowns and then doing nothing but look to hold position. He did so little with top position, in fact, that one judge actually scored the fight for Mein on the strength of his elbows off his back.
- The Woodley/Mein fight is the exact reason that people need to stop saying "a win is a win" or "winning is all that matters." Those simply aren't true in a sport like mixed martial arts. There is no set-up to the sport like a league where winning means that you have to be given shots at the title. Woodley's style is not going to make a promotion any money, hardly anyone is going to demand to see him fight, so Zuffa has no reason to push him at all. He's absolutely unmarketable and tonight's fight was horrible. This isn't a guy that you want on top of the welterweight division, you can't put him in a main event and you need to be able to main event your champions.
- Tarec Saffiedine made the correct adjustment against Tyler Stinson when Stinson beat him in the stand-up in the first round. Going forward Saffiedine focused on working takedowns. And before someone says "why aren't you criticizing him the same way you did Woodley?" Saffiedine used strikes on the ground and cut up Stinson. He also outlanded him on the ground by a significant margine whereas Woodley was outlanded despite having top position.
- Nah-Shon Burrell was gifted a decision on the undercard, having been seemingly clearly beaten by James Terry. Burrell has some work to do on his wrestling and ground game, he also fell into the trap of looking to single shot and abandoned combination striking far too often.
- Gian Villante beat Trevor Smith and...I don't know what to say about it.
- Ricky Legere took down Chris Spang a lot and won a decision. So, that happened.
- Estevan Payan looked like he had some real upside on the opening bout. He was far too wild in the early part of round one, but once he settled down and used technique he just busted up Alonzo Martinez. I'm very interested in seeing him in Strikeforce again.
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Well...a win is a win.
"You got Floyd Mayweather making 25 million dollars...he can't stop the double leg." - Nick Diaz
Tyron Woodley is actually flaming out as a prospect despite still not having lost a fight. His bout with Jordan Mein was almost unbearable to watch
Almost?? What part of that fight WAS bearable?
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probably the few shots Woodley landed while standing. that last round seemed fucking eternal. i never thought i’d say this, but i’d rather see a Volkmann fight. at least he tries to pass guard or, you know, make something happen.
"Men like us... we never get back the things we love."
- Jaron Namir
by Victor Rodriguez on Jan 8, 2012 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
The thing that got to me about the Woodley fight
It looked like Tyron made a DELIBERATE attempt to not pass guard and not throw punches. At least Fitch throws light punches and keeps busy. Tyron would literally just sprawl out holding Mein’s arms and intentionally do nothing to advance.
Yep eventually the rules need to change to stop this shit.
It’s like basketball teams playing keepaway before the shot clock was implemented.
by Rob Young on Jan 8, 2012 1:15 AM EST via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
In collegiate wrestling there is riding time
a clock starts as soon as a takedown is scored and if you end the match with one minute more time than your opponent then you are awarded a point at the end of the match. a similar set up could be a position advancement clock. once you take the fight to the ground/clinch/any other position that is not spectator friendly nor conducive to inflicting damage you have a set amount of time to improve your position. if it is not done, then you are stood up. I am not saying that there should be too much emphasis on making fights spectator friendly, but it should be at least moderately taken into consideration.
In real life everything I utter is original and poignant.
by Andy Anderson on Jan 8, 2012 1:20 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You're basically suggesting a "pass clock" in the same vein as the NBA's shot clock
It’s not a bad idea, but I don’t like it because it will punish people that actively work to pass but are truly defeated by their opponents defense. Fights like that are still exciting to me. What Woodley did tonight was not, and I’m not sure how to counter it.
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Maybe, but I'm not a proponent of taking a percentage of the purse from the fighter either
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But you can't make a rule for just Woodley
And putting the ref in charge of the fighters’ finances is not something I agree with on any level.
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I say we do it anyway
WOODLEY RULE. SHIT TYRONE GET IT TOGETHER
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Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Jan 8, 2012 1:50 AM EST up reply actions
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Jan 8, 2012 1:50 AM EST up reply actions 19 recs
Legit lols
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I have an idea
the refs start being more proactive in standing up/separating people who are obviously stalling. They have the autonomy and usually the ref will settle into a rhythm of watching, instead of correcting the issue
by OneFitchTwoFitchRedFitchBlueFitch on Jan 8, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe judging that favors effective offense?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
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by pdl on Jan 8, 2012 1:46 AM EST up reply actions
You're talking about completely rewriting the UR then.
I’m not saying that’s a bad idea, but it’s unrealistic as changes like that happen over a seriously long period of time
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I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
No, it's how the rules are already written and judges don't follow it.
Judges shall evaluate mixed martial arts techniques, such as effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area, effective aggressiveness and defense. Evaluations shall be made in the order in which the techniques appear, giving the most weight in scoring to effective striking, effective grappling, control of the fighting area and effective aggressiveness and defense.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 8, 2012 1:58 AM EST up reply actions
That's true
However, look at the fight with woodley. the most effective offense were his takedowns. They were the story of the fight. From there, Woodley completely neutralized Mein’s offense though he created none of his own, he still wins by having the only effective offensive.
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He got outlanded with strikes
and was the opposite of aggressive. The “fuck you” score from one of the judges was absolutely justifiable under the unified rules.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 8, 2012 2:04 AM EST up reply actions
You’re probably right, I had trouble concentrating on that fight. And I would love to see more judges score effective offense from bottom guard. I think I may be trained at this point to think it’s a foregone conclusion.
How’s that massage chair?
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Fantastic. Treating me well while I made this:
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 8, 2012 2:13 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
Just saw it on twitter
Matt Roth is ruining MMA
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by Chris Hall on Jan 8, 2012 2:14 AM EST up reply actions 8 recs
lolz
that meme will be good for ages
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Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Jan 8, 2012 2:40 AM EST up reply actions
Waking Up In Trainyards Never Die!!!!
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I fuckin started it too.
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this was a very trainyard filled night
also, I approve
¬_¬
by ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ on Jan 8, 2012 3:19 AM EST up reply actions
when i heard it was a split decision i was pissed already because of the Burrell decision earlier in the night and the incompetence of the ref standing them up in the third only when Mein was working for an actual submission. but when you put it like that, it’s kind of a good thing. he deserved the win since he was more dominant, but he just tried to slip by the whole way.
"Men like us... we never get back the things we love."
- Jaron Namir
by Victor Rodriguez on Jan 8, 2012 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
pdl is dead on
So, though I’d like some minor changes in the rules, it’s the way they’re enforced that should be changed.
My solution has always been that control should never be enough to win a fight ON ITS OWN. Control can be a key facilitator to implementing effective offense, but is not enough to demonstrate superiority by itself.
I don’t think Tyron’s offense was effective at all. All he did was shift the fight from the free-movement phase to the grappling phase. It was a really a stalemate on the ground with Woodley’s only advantages being “on top” and “landing one TD”.
To clarify, position alone can demonstrate superiority. Taking someone’s back, putting them in a legitimate submission attempt, side-mount or even passing to half shows “advancing” position. Taking someone down and sitting in full guard is neutral and not advancing position; just changing it (from standing).
My suggestions:
1. Don’t be afraid to score 10-10. I don’t think Woodley demonstrated a clear advantage because I don’t equate “being on top” with landing heavy strikes, passing guard and threatening with subs. If we start giving 10-10’s it will naturally inspire the fighters to go above and beyond to win the round with effective activity.
If we don’t, getting a TD and holding position with no effective offense will be a viable option to win a round and a fight.
2. This one requires a change in the rules, but it’s pretty simple: remove landing TDs from effective grappling and just keep them under control. Right now, landing a TD counts for effective grappling (1/2 of the #1 measure), control (#2 measure) and aggression (#3). That’s a ridiculous amount of power in the rules for simply forcing the grappling phase.
by Dallas Winston on Jan 8, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
I say no to this in mma because it is not BJJ. You can win the fight in guard in mma, if they aren’t doing anything, stand them up, that’s it.
by Phildo on Jan 8, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
People comparing Woodley to Fitch have obviously never watched Jon Fitch fight.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 8, 2012 1:19 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yup
Thank you! Fitch is far more talented and active.
by Mr.Italiano on Jan 8, 2012 2:42 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I hate the UFC buyout of Strikeforce.
Strikeforce was a promotion where each fighter went for broke because they didn’t have the pressure of being cut and languishing in regional fights. Now, it is a point fighting contest so you can keep in line for an eventual Zuffa crossover. Why scrap when you can score and stay on a North American roster that has any meaning. T-Wood is the epitome of the kind of fighter I never want to see in MMA.
I’m happy, as macabre as it may sound, that ONE FC will allow knees to the heads of grounded opponents in a cage. That style of MMA will stop lay and pray dead in its tracks. I’m bummed in what Strikeforce has become today. Let’s see how the rest of the year plays out.
It's that the world is basically a forced labor camp from which the workers, perfectly innocent, are led forth by lottery, a few each day, to be executed.
I don't think that's just the way I see it. I think that's the way it is. Are there alternative views? Yes. Will any of them stand close scrutiny? No.
by memitim on Jan 8, 2012 1:21 AM EST via mobile reply actions 6 recs
I think knees to the head of grounded opponents is too much
I think it should not be allowed.
Granted, I believe that the definition of ‘grounded opponent’ should be changed.
That 3-point rule to me is a little bit much. A fighter who is up on two feet, but bent over with one hand touching the ground is considered a ‘downed’ opponent.
I think one knee on the ground should be the minimum requirement. I hate that front headlock type position where you see the guys intentionally touch their fingertips to the ground to avoid the knee…I don’t think that’s fair.
Either at least one knee should be touching the ground, OR your butt/back should be touching the ground…I mean, I don’t want to see a weird position where a guy is on his butt or back against the cage, and his knees aren’t technically touching the ground, and he is getting railed with knees.
"You got Floyd Mayweather making 25 million dollars...he can't stop the double leg." - Nick Diaz
You should be a able to knee the head of a grounded opponent who is driving for a takedown
And remove the hands-on-the-mat-to-avoid-knees-to-the-face bullshit.
I think a grounded opponent should be the same as the NFL rules
Anything, but your feet or your hands touch the ground then you’re “standing”
I'll never understand hardcore MMA fans who don't want to allow knees on the ground.. very strange.
See and learn the secret death touch!
by Horselover Fat on Jan 8, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
They make fights more entertaining
They reward active wrestlers who pass guard (like GSP) and punish lazy wrestlers.
by discoandherpes on Jan 8, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The definition of a grounded fighter just needs to change
If he has BOTH knees down or his torso/waist/back is on the mat, he’s grounded. Anything else should be fair game.
This would allow upkicks from guard (in most cases) and blasting a sloppy takedown artist. Shooting a TD, getting it stuffed and being in front of a standing opponent on one knee is an extremely vulnerable position, but the rules actually make that a more protected position than most others.
by Dallas Winston on Jan 8, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions
Why not just add knees to the head of a grounded opponent?
It turns north south and side mount into more viable positions and you can blast a wrestler off a sprawl.
by discoandherpes on Jan 8, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
I think upkicks should be allowed 100% of the time
Regardless if the opponent has 2 knees on the ground. If you’re in a dominate position then you should be able to prevent that. The rules are basically setting it up for the fighter in dominate position to continue being dominate. Not allowing the fighter on the other end every tool to change that sucks.
Anderson/ Okami 1 was a perfect example of this. Okami had dominate position but he left too much room for Anderson and he blasted him for it.
The 3-point rule is silly. You should be on your butt, back, shoulders, hips, side or knee to be downed. Even if you have both feet and hands down I don’t think you should be “down”.
I’m perfectly OK with knees to a downed opponent too.
Eff if, bring back PRIDE rules!
Bloodyelbow is my facebook
puh-leeze.
Woodley was a bore prior to Zuffa and he’ll be one long after SF is gone. Tyron “Shamar Bailey” Woodley should be his new nickname. You can blame Zuffa for lots of things, but blaming them for boring SF fights is going way far, especially now that they seem to have made it pretty clear that no one currently under contract will be going to the UFC, and you know what? If you can bring eyeballs and excitement to a broadcast rather than an impressive record, that would give a better chance to get to the UFC if that becomes an option. You think that Joe Silva is drafting guys into the UFC that fight like that? Doubt it. They have enough of those guys.
by John Danaher's Hair on Jan 8, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Because Tyron Woodley was so exciting before the UFC buyout?
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
That is a complete over- dramatization
Woodley has never been the kind of fighter to go for broke against a dangerous striker/ guard player. Saffiedine gutted out 2 rounds with a broken arm, and I thought that was a good fight. Was King Mo “point fighting” when he smashed Larkin?
"God loves violence... Why else would there be so much of it? It's in us. It's what we are. We wage war, we burn sacrifices, and pillage and plunder and tear at the flesh of our brothers. And why? Because God gave us violence to wage in his honor... There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?"
- Warden of Ashecliffe Hospital
by ElliotMatheny on Jan 9, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
That Mein/Woodley fight
was fucking torture to watch, especially since I threw down some money on Mein. It sort of reminded me of Mo/Mousasi, where Mein (like Mousasi) was actually getting the better of the striking off his back somehow. I look forward to Woodley facing someone who can stuff his shots and knock his ass out.
"My days they are the highway kind, they only come to leave."
by Ak.Death on Jan 8, 2012 1:23 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I'll also add
Just found out @tarecfighter fought last two rounds with broken arm. Stinson broke his arm in first and Tarec kept going.
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Already have a post up here and HKL
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Tyron Teddy Bear Woodley
That should be Tyron’s new nickname because he puts people to sleep.
Can’t rec enough
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All in the game yo, all in the game
by Our Bovine Public on Jan 8, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
the wire reference is insta-rec
Now I've switched signature to this one.
by the guy with the big nose on Jan 8, 2012 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
Perhaps Woodley’s decision to open his own gym instead of seeking out the best coaches / sparring partners / training camps is stalling his progression as a fighter. I know that not everyone can just uproot and take up residence at Jackson’s, but it doesn’t seem like Woodley’s is developing at all. He’s about as good as he was 2 or 3 years ago. He could have spent that time evolving.
"If I wanted to spend a half hour between two hairy legs I'd go to your mother's house." -Don Frye
Yikes!
This version of Strikeforce looks like its gonna get old very fast. With Strikeforce no longer it’s own company and no longer trying to acquire great fighters it look like most fights are gonna fall into 1 of 3 categories
MISUSE – As Brent pointed out the lack of depth will probably lead to more Keith Jardine like situations where a fighter who has no business being in a title match gets one or something along those lines.
FLAME OUT – In an effort to create possible new contenders, prospects are rushed into matches that they have no business doing in. Example – Mo/Larkin, Mousasi/OSP.
RECYCLE – With no new guys brought in it’s the same 3 or 4 guys in a division fighting back and forth. Example – LHW – Mo, Mousasi, and Feijao, MW – Rockhold, Jacare, Kennedy, and Lawler
Man at first I was like meh it was a decent strikeforce show I guess it shouldn't close NO F it kill it with Fire and absorb it
I would of been fine if Jardine Rockhold had happened on the main card of a SF card or even the main event of a Challangers card but as the ME and for a title NO.
Man Woodley i’m over him he might beat Saffadine again in a rematch but man I love me some Jon Fitch and he advances position and strikes Woodley dose what trolls think Fitch dose.
Twitter @MaZZM
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Is Woodley even a fighter?
I don’t mean is he a fighter in the same way that people were questioning if Brock Lesnar was a real fighter. I mean, can what Woodley does inside the cage even be considered fighting? I know that technically, it is, but it doesn’t look like it at all. There has to be some urgency and at least some minor hint of violence for it to be considered a fight. What Woodley does is exploit of a set of rules that are favorable to his extremely boring style.
by Warbreezy on Jan 8, 2012 1:52 AM EST reply actions 6 recs
Yep, the final evolutionary stage of gaming the unified rules to win without fighting has arrived
and its name is Tyron Woodley.
by Rob Young on Jan 8, 2012 4:34 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
The worst part about the fight was Woodley wasn’t even trying to improve his position. It didn’t even look like he was trying to give any damage.
Damn, they need to match him up with a good wrestler next time or we’re going to see the same results.
Woodley had dozens of oppurtinities to pass Meins gaurd in that fight, but he didn't take it
It pissed me off every time he let a good opportunity pass him by. T-Wood has superior ground skills compared to Mein, there’s no denying that, but why can’t he even attempt to obtain full mount at least once or twice, especially when his current strategy wasn’t helping him do much damage. He should be ashamed of such a bad performance.
He needs to watch tape on guys like Ben Henderson, Cain Velazquez, Mark Munoz, Jon Jones, and Chael Sonnen from the Stann fight to learn to get the most out of his ground skills.
by amendamatrix on Jan 8, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
I think that Woodley himself just sells himself way too short or something. There were opportunities to pin Mein against the cage, posture up, and rain down ground n pound, or he could have passed guard. In the standup, he hit a good overhand right on Mein. It seems like he is capable of good offense and seems pretty athletic, but totally forsakes it. I could just be totally off though, and maybe he is just intentionally lay n praying.
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Strikeforce should = WWE NXT
I hate to bring a wrestling example but the new look of strikeforce extreme and strikeforce gave me the idea that Strikeforce should become the WWE NXT to the UFC fuel/fx and eventually PPV cards.
Strikeforce should only be used where prospects fight who are still cutting teeth inside the realm of pro mma. Keeping fighters who simply aren’t ready for the bigger stages and bigger paychecks. Prospects,TUF alum, over the hill fighters to provide marquee w’s etc.
This also protects fighters since they will have the zuffa insurance the whole 9 and not have to deal with shady promotions or health hazzards.
Just a quick thought
by milliondollardreams on Jan 8, 2012 1:54 AM EST reply actions
Apparently not
Since they were pretty keen about Strikeforce fighters staying as Strikeforce fighters in this new deal.
"You got Floyd Mayweather making 25 million dollars...he can't stop the double leg." - Nick Diaz
Zuffa should...
throw Strikeforce a bone and do a light heavyweight / lightweight TUF….the winners still get a UFC contract but the instead of absorbing all the other guys into UFC undercards they should throw some of them into Strikeforce…Strikeforce needs fresh meat
by Chris WhiteDynamite Bielanski on Jan 8, 2012 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
I don't "get" 2012 Strikeforce.
Why did they raid Strikeforce if they’re now going to lock top flight talent to the promotion? Why are they absorbing the HW division for that same reason? What is this promotion supposed to be? A top flight promotion? A feeder league? What did the fighters stuck in Strikeforce do to deserve being stuck in B league hell fighting lower class talent?
It certainly felt like a lower class card, moved from SF’s base areas to a foreign area for cost saving, but with top flight competition against lower competition due to being stuck in this promotion.
Legit can someone explain to me what Strikeforce is and what the goal is? I just don’t get it.
Ugly fight or not, winning IS still the only thing that matters. Sorry Brent.
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My twitter: @TB_Money
But if you win like that, you wont sniff the title. And eventually, this is what happens
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by Earl Montclair on Jan 8, 2012 2:03 AM EST up reply actions 11 recs
That was so beautiful
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I so wish Fitch would've started pitter-pattering Maz with some shots.
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by T.C. Engel on Jan 8, 2012 3:25 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I don’t know…..looks like he grabbed side control on Maz pretty easily. Maz needs to start training at a real MMA gym.
by Snake_Pliskan on Jan 8, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
I disagree.
Maz did get into butterfly guard right away.
Haha
How funny would it have been if Mazz got rubber guard and went all Shinya Aoki right there?
Answer: this funny (holds hands a considerable distance apart).
by Dallas Winston on Jan 8, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
maz was looking for the sweep when Fitch stood him up, and the world has come to a close
Now I've switched signature to this one.
by the guy with the big nose on Jan 8, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
Unless you can pull that 'nobody is denied a title shot after 8 straight wins' rule
That’s a long investment to try and make though.
’I’m going to be boring and force myself to win 8 straight to get the shot’
Or
’I’ll fight exciting, take more damage, probably lose more and likely get more exposure, promotion, bonuses, and bigger paychecks in return’
Guys like Nate Diaz and Chris Lytle were pretty much locked for never being cut…all the while they’ve been raking in bonuses. Joe Lauzon is another example…but if Jon Fitch drops 3 in a row, or loses 4 of 5…he’ll very likely be sent packing.
"You got Floyd Mayweather making 25 million dollars...he can't stop the double leg." - Nick Diaz
It truly would not shock me if Jon got shitcanned after losing 2 in a row
Writing things on occasion @ Head Kick Legend.
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by Earl Montclair on Jan 8, 2012 2:35 AM EST up reply actions
It would surprise me
It would also surprise me if he lost 2 in a row. Fitch is a legitimate top talent at WW and that’s recognized throughout the MMA world. For the UFC to dispose of him and hand him over to Bellator would be ridiculous.
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The few reasons they might I consider to be these
1) he has kind of been a pain in the ass before (likeness rights-gate, AKA teammate fighting mentality etc)
2) his notoriously boring style.
3) if you dont want to give him a title shot after a long list of victories then why bother with him? he is just shutting down other fighters that would provide more entertaining top tier match ups?
I dont agree with all this I am just toshing it out there
Writing things on occasion @ Head Kick Legend.
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by Earl Montclair on Jan 8, 2012 2:42 AM EST up reply actions
I can see exactly this
for those reasons. I wouldn’t even be mad if it happened, too
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Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Jan 8, 2012 2:42 AM EST up reply actions
He's also 33
Had a TON of grinding fights in a long career…was pretty viciously knocked out early in his career, took a TON of punishment from GSP, was rocked bad by Pierce, and was just knocked out pretty viciously again.
He’s at the point where he is only going to be on the decline….when he is this age with this long a career…an insta-KO does not bode well for the future.
"You got Floyd Mayweather making 25 million dollars...he can't stop the double leg." - Nick Diaz
He’d beat Hendricks in a rematch. Johny has no reason to give it to him, but he’s the better fighter.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
or he might get dangadadanged again
As an atheist jew who stood up on his bar stool and yelled SWEET JESUS when Hendricks KO’d him the first time in a packed 200+ TGiFridays, I sure hope it happens again
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Jan 8, 2012 2:45 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Everyone gets caught
Even GSP and Anderson.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
sure
i’ll still praise tim tebow if/when it happens again
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Jan 8, 2012 2:46 AM EST up reply actions
Let's see how Fitch rebounds before we say he 'got caught'
If he wins the title and goes on another crazy streak…fine, he was caught.
If he starts a skid peppered with losses, then he was slipping and simply got tagged.
I’m sure plenty of people said Chuck just ‘got caught’ against Rampage…but Chuck didn’t rise back from that loss and prove that he was still the best….he went on a bad streak that led to his retirement.
"You got Floyd Mayweather making 25 million dollars...he can't stop the double leg." - Nick Diaz
You get knocked out in 12 seconds
You got caught.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
I was going to argue Silva never got caught
But he was on the end of the submission of the century.
by discoandherpes on Jan 8, 2012 3:51 AM EST up reply actions
Fitch didn't get caught...
He had his hands down and applied no head movement against someone he should have known was a heavy hitter. Dan Hardy got caught when he fought Carlos Condit, but Jon Fitch just didn’t protect himself well in the fight
by amendamatrix on Jan 8, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions
bonus points for dangadadanged. i yelled ‘naked fucking Christ’ in a strip club when Machida KO’d Couture in April, but your story takes the cake.
"Men like us... we never get back the things we love."
- Jaron Namir
by Victor Rodriguez on Jan 8, 2012 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
I'm really not a fan of the 'He lost but he is still better' thing
I mean…there is a reason that these guys actually have the fight.
Heard it when Fedor lost to Hendo, when Guillard lost to Lauzon…I mean, it seems like every time there is a major upset it’s ‘Oh well, they are still ACTUALLY better’ as if the loss happened in some fantasy world.
Upsets happen…deal with it.
And I’m not targeting you directly…just that kind of mindset in general…not too crazy about it.
"You got Floyd Mayweather making 25 million dollars...he can't stop the double leg." - Nick Diaz
by Chris Groves on Jan 8, 2012 2:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Understandable
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
It depends on how the fight goes
If the fight is fairly even and then one person gets KO’d or subbed then you can say the underdog may be the better fighter. However you can’t really extrapolate anything from a guy getting KO’d in 12 seconds. Especially when he has a resume like Jon Fitch.
by HaterSlayer on Jan 8, 2012 7:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You have to use eyes when you watch the fight no matter how long it is.
Jon Fitch lost legitimately based of poor defense in the standup. This doesn’t mean he is an overall inferior fighter, but I don’t know how you could say with confidence “9 times out of ten, Fitch wins that fight”. Johnny Hendricks has good pure wrestling and knockout power unlike most of Fitch’s opponents since 2008, so I really think people should hold back on rationalizing the loss, and look at what Fitch should have done to prevent it in the first place.
I think Cerrone is a much better fighter than the one who fought Nate Diaz at 141, but I’m not going to say that he would beat Nate 9/10 in a rematch, because that would be taking away from Nate’s victory.
by amendamatrix on Jan 8, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Styles make fights hoes
Totally agree with you
Nobody thinks Dennis Hallman is a better fighter than Matt Hughes
But some people will just kick your fucking ass regardless of expectations
Also...
an Askren-Fitch fight would usher in the End of Days.
by John Danaher's Hair on Jan 8, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Yep, no kidding
I mean, he was the #2 guy because he never lost after becoming champion…I said for a while that I don’t think he was still that good…but due to rankings logistics where you can’t lose your ranking unless you lose…
He stayed at #2 even though there were guys a lot better than Saunders on short notice and Alves after over a year off that COULD have beaten him.
Similar to Fedor…He was still #1 on a technicality…but I felt like there were guys ranked lower than him, whom he couldn’t fight, that would beat him.
So, ANYWAY, he’s #2 and he just lost to #17/#18(can’t remember off the top)
He’ll likely fall into the bottom half of the top 10 as Hendricks enters the top 10. If he gets another similar matchup…a guy who is in the bottom half of the top 25 and he loses again, then his rank will fall pretty sharply…he’ll be top 15 at best. I could see him getting cut.
MAYBE give him one more chance.
"You got Floyd Mayweather making 25 million dollars...he can't stop the double leg." - Nick Diaz
explain jim miller not getting a shot after his win streak (before the bendo loss)
he wasnt even considered until even he started asking for a title shot. g-sot as well before the siver loss.
I think Miller-Bendo would have been a title eliminator for Miller only
And Sotty was just being shoved on the next Australian card (IIRC) with the only available credible opponent
He would have got a shot from that fight or the next
People thought taking Siver down wouldn’t be a big deal and Sotty would snap him like a twig
But remember these were tricky times when the title was tied up due to rematches and injuries
LW had contenders out the ass with no available shots at the title
by Cunny on Jan 8, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Long time coming...
Couldnt have happened to a better bloke, Have fun on the prelims fighting whoever DFW wants to cut next lol
BJ Penn and Shogun Rua fan for life.
yeah, but it completely negates what has been the most attractive feature of SF as a promoter
And that’s exciting fights. So what do they do with Woodley? They can limit how often he fights by only giving him annual title defenses.
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They continue to promote him. If he continues to be boring, then he becomes the guy people love to hate and watch to see if he gets his ass kicked (ala the gif above). Winning is the only thing that matters. Bottom line. Boring fights don’t let you change your mind about that.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
dude...
no one was paying in the hopes that Fitch lost.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 8, 2012 2:12 AM EST up reply actions
You’d be surprised. I know two people that did exactly that. They didn’t even care about Lesnar.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
I still have to think that is a negligible percent of the audience. I can understand people buying to see a Tito or Koschek get beat, but I can’t believe there’s a significant percentage of PPV buyers footing the bill for a $60 PPV just to see Fitch lose.
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Right, I’m not saying that a ton of fans are doing it. But it’s there. The basic point is that while the sport is a mix of sport and entertainment, you can’t completely ignore the sporting side of things when a guy isn’t super exciting. In every sport, in every facet of life, the important thing is winning. It’s not about how you do it. It’s that you do it.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
You’ve got a point, but Woodley is never going to become the #2 in the division fighting the Mein’s of MMA. That makes him incredibly more cuttable from any organization, whenever that loss does come.
And honeslty I didn’t have a huge problem with him until he circled back into guard when he had a perfect opportunity to pass. That is by no means offense and being on top in guard shouldn’t earn him a victory.
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The only difference with MMA
Is that other sports have a set schedule of playing the other teams and then the playoffs. Their fate is almost entirely dictated by winning or losing.
In MMA, matchmaking determines the pathway of fighters and matchmaking is quite distinctly affected by what the fans want to see and how exciting a fighter is.
by Dallas Winston on Jan 8, 2012 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
But to do that, don’t you need opponents who these people can get behind? I mean, I can see people shelling out money hoping to see GSP to handle Kos or Henderson shut up Bisping. But I can’t imagine that there are people out there who know enough about mma to hate someone like Woodley while thinking that someone like Bobby Voelker or Mein in a rematch is going to have much success.
The only reasons I ever watched a Fitch fight
1. I wanted to see him lose
2. He’s on the main card
3. I shelled out for the main card
"You got Floyd Mayweather making 25 million dollars...he can't stop the double leg." - Nick Diaz
Brent has it
Nobody buys a PPV for Fitch. And nobody is going to subscribe to SHO for Woodley.
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by Chris Hall on Jan 8, 2012 2:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Actually I have bought PPV cards because Fitch is on them… I love watching him take his opponents soul. I am in the extreme minority though
Do you also cut yourself?
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No I am not an idiot who sees a guy beat the shit out of a guy and make him want to quit and think it s LnP
I never mind a fighter who actively looks to do damage. It’s getting a takedown and waiting on the clock to count down that I hate.
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by Chris Hall on Jan 8, 2012 2:49 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I hate that as well, I just dont think that is Fitch. I just especially remember the Saunders fight were Saunders basically just looked like he wanted to quit. Fitch grinds ppl into mentally checking out IMO… I also like ball control offenses and strong defenses in football. So I am into "boring: aspects of sports
The Saunders fight was weird
Because Saunders was stalling, not the other way around.
by discoandherpes on Jan 8, 2012 3:52 AM EST up reply actions
Ha, I'm that guy too,
I loved watching the grinding Spurs and 04-06 Pistons.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
I loved the 'boring' Spurs!
BE CW Season 2 - Cecil Peoples Champs
by lmaginary Enemy on Jan 8, 2012 8:15 AM EST up reply actions
I love run and gun,
and the Mavs Nellie ball made me a huge Mavs/Dirk/Nash fan, but it takes a really special team to carry out some soul-sapping sub 90 defense. And people seemed to forget that with Manu, Duncan and Parker they could still run with the best of them.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
those teams were ratings poison, but those teams were great cohesive units that consistently played some of the best defense we’ve seen in the last 3 decades.
"Men like us... we never get back the things we love."
- Jaron Namir
by Victor Rodriguez on Jan 8, 2012 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
It’s really not though. Jon Fitch made $60,000 to show and couldn’t get another title shot despite years as the #2 welterweight in the world because he wasn’t an attractive fighter for the UFC. Chris Leben makes like $46,000 to show and is in no way nearly as relevant as Fitch. But he’s “fun to watch.” Chris Lytle made more for his last fight than Jon Fitch (although Lytle’s included a win bonus that Fitch didn’t get because he lost).
What Woodley is doing is not going to make him a lot of money and it’s not going to put him in a position to get major shots on a stage bigger than Strikeforce if the promotion goes under.
A win is not all that matters.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 8, 2012 2:11 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You win, you can’t get cut. In terms of a career as a fighter, it’s absolutely all that matters.
The Antonio McKee argument will never fly with me. He still got his shot the with the UFC. Why? Cuz he won and won and won. And when he got to the UFC, he lost and got cut. If he won, and continued to win…guess where he’d still be working? Jacob Volkmann has won five fights in a row at LW. Boring as shit. Weird motherfucker. Don’t matter. He continues to take home checks because he continues to win.
I understand the business side of the sport. But winning will always be the most important thing in the sport.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
I still thinks that different where a promotion like SF with very limited fight slots can keep you to only fighting once a year
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It’s not the same SF. They’re promoting less divisions now, and they have less guys under contract. A guy will only fight once a year if he gets hurt. There are enough spots for guys to fight 3 time a year, easy. Tyron Woodley will fight 3 times this year if he doesn’t get hurt. And if he keeps winning, nothing can stop him from doing that. Boring or not.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
Why would they put Woodley in 3 fights a year when they have Robbie Lawlor's that will go out and put on fights people want to see?
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Because Robbie will get three fights a year too.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
You’re ignoring my point deliberately. There’s no reason for them to put a fighter like Woodley has become on the main card 3 times a year, when he doesn’t bring in SHO subscribers. It makes more sense for Showtime to keep him off of cards if he makes people change the channel.
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I’m not ignoring your point. I’m saying that Woodley has earned his spot by winning, and there HAS to be room on the card for a guy that continues to win. I know what you’re saying about business, but the sport will always begrudging accept people like Woodley that continue to win. They have no choice. It has to be about the sport at some level. You can sell cards and subscriptions by working around the less-exciting guys. But if they earned their spot (and there’s way less competition for spots in general anyway), promotions will make it work. They have to.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
*begrudgingly
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
In the UFC, I'd totally agree with you
But, in Strikeforce, who only has 8 events a year and relies totally on having fights that people want to see, I don’t see him enjoying the same success. It would be very easy for a matchmaker to limit his exposure purely based on the fact that people change the channel when he fights.
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It’s Showtime. It doesn’t matter if they change the channel. They’ve already paid for the subscription. : )
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
And what about the people on the free previews tonight, who switched the channel after 7 minutes of his stalling?
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If seven minutes of stalling was their decision between ordering and not ordering…well, we’re back up to the same numbers as my Fitch example above. Not a ton are doing it, but it’s there. The point is that you build cards like you promote a circus. Some people like the trapeze act, some come for the elephants. Some come for the cotton candy. You’ll never please everyone, but you have 5 fights to try and appeal to the widest demographic possible. And some, SOME people just tune in to see the best guys in the sport. If you never lose, you’re one of the best guys in the sport, no matter how you get that W.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
Strikefroce needs to maximize the limited amount of exposure they have. Putting Woodley as he performed tonight on almost half of their cards doesn’t do that.
Status: Awesoming
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
This loops back to the start – you can’t deny a winner his props because he’s boring. It’s still a sport. You can work around it, but you can’t deny him his spot.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
As a promoter looking to maximize my profits
I can definitely deny a boring fighter 3 fights a year.
And it’d be easy in divisions as thin as Strikeforce’s welterweight division.
Look at the situation now, where the most likely contender, Saffeidine, is injured. The fight for the vacant title can easily be delayed until Tarec is ready to fight, instead of finding a replacement.
After that, you put on a tournament to determine the next contender, which takes as much time as you want it to.
As a matchmaker, I would have no problem making reasonable excuses to have Woodley defend his title only once a year and still have plenty of matches to fill out cards for Sf.
Status: Awesoming
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
The competition for spots isn’t what it was before.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
I'm not sure what point you're making here, Beer Monster
Status: Awesoming
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Goalposts. You move them.
Nobody is arguing against the notion that “winning is the most important thing in the sport”. What we are arguing against is the easily disprovable notion that “winning is all that matters.”
Guys like Volkman, Fitch and Woodley can grind out careers in the sport, but their unwillingness, or inability to evolve their game to stop opponents carries a very real career
and economic cost.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
BECW Season 1 - The NOT LAST PLACE Team Spinning Fish
BECW Season 2 - WAR Cecil Peoples Champs
by Dave Strummer on Jan 8, 2012 8:53 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Another way of spinning that
Is saying “being boring is the absolute worst way to win”.
I agree with Brent saying that “all wins are not created equal” and this was probably more detrimental to Woodley’s career than any other win.
by Dallas Winston on Jan 8, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Most important maybe. You're saying its "all that matters"
Clearly that isn’t the case. There are countless examples to refute it.
C. Montgomery Hunt: One of the greatest heroes in American history.
Tyron Teddy Bear Woodley...
should not get a title shot from that dry humpfest performance!
Paging Johnny Hendricks!!!
Somebody make up a Bat-Signal but with a beard and that can be our call sign for him.
How amazing would that be?
Just imagine Hendricks KOing boring LnPers in every possible weight class.
I think the only logical thing to do is a rematch of Cormier vs. Lawal. Here is their first fight
Writing things on occasion @ Head Kick Legend.
Team Captain for Ruining Your Special Night. That's what we do.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 8, 2012 2:13 AM EST reply actions 7 recs
Is that a Stone Cold Stunner?
Status: Awesoming
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STONE COLD STONE COLD STONE COLD!!!!
Writing things on occasion @ Head Kick Legend.
Team Captain for Ruining Your Special Night. That's what we do.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 8, 2012 2:19 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Luke thomas hates you
Status: Awesoming
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
Ace crusher. Austin’s a thief.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
was it the Ace Crusher before it was the Diamond Cutter
Writing things on occasion @ Head Kick Legend.
Team Captain for Ruining Your Special Night. That's what we do.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 8, 2012 2:23 AM EST up reply actions
?
?
Writing things on occasion @ Head Kick Legend.
Team Captain for Ruining Your Special Night. That's what we do.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 8, 2012 2:23 AM EST up reply actions
Yes.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
huh.
Writing things on occasion @ Head Kick Legend.
Team Captain for Ruining Your Special Night. That's what we do.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 8, 2012 2:25 AM EST up reply actions
And knowledge is power!!
Status: Awesoming
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
Diamond Cutter /= Stunner
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
Also known as a ColdStone Stunner
/CHIKARA’d
Follow me on Twitter or James Thompson is coming for your mic! @BVandDietPepsi
by BVandDietPepsi on Jan 8, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
And a diamond cutter is actually a different move anyway.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
reply fail
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
Karl Malone can do a sweet diamond cutter
Writing things on occasion @ Head Kick Legend.
Team Captain for Ruining Your Special Night. That's what we do.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 8, 2012 2:26 AM EST up reply actions
See, he drops to the floor and slams his face on there, like DDP did. A stunner/crusher sees a guy drop to his knees and drive the face into your shoulder.
/pro wrestling nerd stuff
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
Anybody got a Jay Leno gif from WCW? Just for funsies?
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i found a picture of him trying to kiss Teh Hulkster
Writing things on occasion @ Head Kick Legend.
Team Captain for Ruining Your Special Night. That's what we do.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 8, 2012 2:32 AM EST up reply actions
I hope he got the kiss
I mean, who wouldn’t want a kiss from Thunder Lips?
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nice butt on the left
Writing things on occasion @ Head Kick Legend.
Team Captain for Ruining Your Special Night. That's what we do.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 8, 2012 2:37 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Thank you
I work out.l
Status: Awesoming
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
why are you staring at that butt?
With that first class priority package staring you in the face?
"Before I speak, I have something important to say."
-Groucho Marx
by james b on Jan 8, 2012 3:29 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
jay leno?
Now I've switched signature to this one.
by the guy with the big nose on Jan 8, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
sorry, stoned and confused
Now I've switched signature to this one.
by the guy with the big nose on Jan 8, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
YOU FAIL BURKE
http://guy.com/2011/09/30/anatomy-of-a-wrestling-hold-cutters/
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
No
Ace Crusher is FAR FAR more Diamond Cutter/RKO than a Stunner.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
Yo man Rockhold needs to fight Kennedy and run it back with Jacare before callin out UFC guys. Clean your division out first then call em out
ONE FC NEVER DIE
Why exactly does he need to fight Jacare again?
Writing things on occasion @ Head Kick Legend.
Team Captain for Ruining Your Special Night. That's what we do.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 8, 2012 2:29 AM EST up reply actions
fair enough
Writing things on occasion @ Head Kick Legend.
Team Captain for Ruining Your Special Night. That's what we do.
by Earl Montclair on Jan 8, 2012 2:47 AM EST up reply actions
Rockhold should call out whoever the eff he can
He may not get the fight, but he gets the attention and good for him.
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well, obviously no one gives a shit about fighters almost getting killed
seriously some of the worst refereeing I have seen in a while and please can we jump of the herb dean beeing the best in the business bandwagon, he fucked up quite alot lately
At least Mazzagatti was their to show how to make a good stoppage.
Seeing that Amagov had had enough.
For the second event running Mazzagatti has been the best referee of the night. I never thought I’d be saying that.
Yeah that stand-up in the Mo fight was horrible, he was doing good work and hitting him with hard shots. Winslow is not a very good referee.
They could have needed some more of those stand-ups in the Woodley fight, though. And yellow cards..
See and learn the secret death touch!
by Horselover Fat on Jan 8, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions
The T-Wood x Mein stand up was almost worse
I only like referee interventions in worst-case scenarios. I thought the ref should have jumped in earlier, but I noticed when he was reffing a fight earlier in the night that he was reluctant to intervene. I respected that and thought, “At least this guy is being consistent” in the Mein-Woodley fight.
Then, when he finally does decide to jump in, he does it when Mein was angling for an armlock. I’m not saying he was going to sub him but, fuck … there were a ton of action-less lulls before that.
by Dallas Winston on Jan 8, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Haha, yeah, I had forgotten about that one. Agreed, pretty damn horrible. At the one moment the bottom guy actually starts to get something going, they stand them up. Amazing.
See and learn the secret death touch!
by Horselover Fat on Jan 8, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Dana and Zuffa need to come out and make a statement...
on if there going to bring ufc fighters to strikeforce.
Okay so say you're in Dana's shoes right now
Would you consider sending UFC fighters to do battle with the lads at Strikeforce? What are the potential upsides / downsides?
I'd send Jake Ellenberger to fuck up Tyron Woodley.
Downside is for Showtime when he loses and I bring Ellenberger back into the UFC after his mission is complete.
by Rob Young on Jan 8, 2012 4:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Woodley is an Undefeated, and Undisputed loser of Strikeforce
The worst part about Woodley is the fact that he gasses out, he sits their and muscles Mein down for 3 rounds and talks how must he has been working on his striking. At least Fitch is conditioned and hits his opponent. Woodley looked like a sack of crap out there. He doesn’t deserve a title, take a page out of Sonnen’s book even Askren looks more busy when he is on top. Woodley should fight for the title, just so he can gas in the 3rd and have a nice TKO, if that Daley fight when into the 4th he would have been crushed.
I sure as hell do.
Maybe T-Wood fades a bit in rounds 4 and 5 and get’s TKO’d from the Stockton slap, but I doubt it.
Every time Woodley backs into the cage (which he does a lot) he would eat three or so punches. Even if he does get Diaz down I’m sure Diaz can sweep and scramble. Diaz has never been held down consistently throughout his career, and Woodley gasses much quicker.
I fail to see how that fight doesn’t end poorly for Woodley.
by discoandherpes on Jan 8, 2012 10:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yep, probably.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 8, 2012 10:41 AM EST up reply actions
Really?
I think the further that fight goes the more chance Woodley gets subbed or TKO’d. I wouldn’t be surprised if Diaz can sprawl late in the fight and take his back.
by discoandherpes on Jan 8, 2012 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Also
Legalize knees to the head of a grounded opponent. It rewards passing guard and punishes lazy wrestlers.
by discoandherpes on Jan 8, 2012 3:55 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
I've gotten to the point where it is hard to question the vision of Dana, Lorenzo, and everyone else at Zuffa, but
Unless there is something I’m missing about there long term plan they have really screwed up the entire Strikeforce acquisition. I personally don’t care about Rockhold, Melendez, Mo, ect… they all chose at some point to sign a contract with Strikeforce when they could have signed with UFC, but now Zuffa has control over their destinies and they are keeping some of the best fighters in the world from fighting the best, and that pisses me off as a fan. For years Dana has promised that UFC would always make the best fights that it can, and now they are not delivering in some cases.
Here's a video of their plan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kse0MG5n9wI
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You may like Diaz, but Brock actually won a title that mattered.
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by MicahtheCynic on Jan 8, 2012 7:32 AM EST up reply actions
Srikeforce was shocking last night
Everyone just seemed to be going through the motions. The commentary was especially lazy, Frank and Pat were just throwing out lazy cliches without any real insight and Mauro sounded way too snarky, I think they know Strikeforece is spiralling and they’re just their to pick up there cheques.
The crowd was dead and the fights were boring. I even felt guilty for getting a bit excited when in the main event, we saw a top ten prospect beat up a has-been. A match that should never have been made, let alone be the main event. And finally, what is the biggest thing on Strikeforce’s horizon? A woman’s match that does not even involve Gina Carrano. What the hell Dana!?
One highlight of the card was Mauro interviewing Dana
Even though it lacked spit volume compared to a Rogan-White screamfest-with-neck-veins-bulgin’-and-foreheads-sweatin’ it made up for it in terms of pure, undiluted bullshit.
Dana is psyched for Tate-Rousey? Strikeforce will be around for a long time to come? “Anything can happen in MMA” re: Jardine being allowed to fight for a title?
Jardine getting a title shot truly is an example of “a win is a win,” because his only two wins in his last eight fights before last night came in something called “Fresquez Productions” and something else called “Nemesis Fighting: MMA Global Invasion.” Those were enough, because they were wins, and that’s all that matters sometimes.
Yeah I never want to see that again
One hyped up nerdy bald guy shouting into the mic is ok, when standing next to Joe Rogan. But when you’ve got two hyped up nerdy bald guys shouting into mics it’s really not pretty.
Plus, what’s with all the Strikeforce guys getting little digs in about their former guys like Overeem and Diaz winning in the UFC? Mauro just could not help himself. Don’t they realise that it’s over and they are owned by the UFC now? Any bragging rights they mght have been able to lay claim to, have gone out the window.
Dana’s body language to me didn’t indicate that he was that excited for Strikeforce.
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Yeah, he didn’t even smile once I think. It was pretty depressing actually.
See and learn the secret death touch!
by Horselover Fat on Jan 8, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
That pic of Coker defines the new Strikeforce
Just woke up didn’t tuck shirt in been wearing it 3 days why am I here.
haha
Yeah, the times when Helwani interviewed Coker and Coker was proud to pull something off like the HW GP, those days are over.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
The perception that he hasn't reached his ceiling yet
He seems to be improving in many of the facets of MMA and doesn’t appear to have reached his full potential yet.
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by Cory Braiterman on Jan 8, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
Right. Think of it like a video game…he’s still got some leveling up to do, he isn’t maxed out.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 8, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Glad to see I’m not the only one who’s getting sick and tired of Woodley. What a fucking nightmare for Strikeforce, ending up with this guy as champion! Horrible. If you are going to play wrestling and lay in someones guard, at least posture the fuck up and hit him with some hard shots, ala King Mo. Or you look to pass that guard. Not just hold him down and not do anything! GOD! SO ANNOYING! What a jackass. If I was Coker I would rather cut this guy then be dragged down by having him as champion. Really poor choice on their part to promote this guy.
Overall very poor show for being Strikeforce, lots of mismatches and sad performances. I used to love their shows back before Zuffa destroyed them, but now it’s not that great anymore. They need to step their game up, somehow.. this isn’t really working.
See and learn the secret death touch!
Yeah I’m with you, I’ve pretty much disliked him from day one, whenever that was. The hate is getting stronger and stronger… grrr.
See and learn the secret death touch!
by Horselover Fat on Jan 8, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
And he should either learn to spell Tyrone properly or should switch to Tryon so he could have a cool nickname, such as Tryon “Dem Shoes” Woodley. He’d be more popular, I bet.
Haha! Good suggestion.
See and learn the secret death touch!
by Horselover Fat on Jan 8, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Regarding what Zuffa is going to do about generating contenders for Strikeforce...
Dana white pretty definitively spoke to the issue in <a href=“http:// ”http://www.headkicklegend.com/2011/12/15/2639021/the-showtime-sports-and-strikeforce-media-call-news-and-notes" target="_blank">http://www.headkicklegend.com/2011/12/15/2639021/the-showtime-sports-and-strikeforce-media-call-news-and-notes" >this call
When asked about co-promotional fights between Strikeforce and the UFC, Dana White responded “That’s a hell yes.”
SquishingMachine, now at HeadKickLegend.com
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