UFC On FOX: Has The UFC Botched Their First Two Tries?
by Luke Nelson on Jan 30, 2012 8:20 PM EST
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PrintThis article has been cross posted from Head Kick Legend. I thought the community over here might have worthwhile comments.
I was listening to the local Vancouver sports jocks on TEAM 1040 this morning, a couple of fellows by the names Matt Sekeres and Blake Price, and they took a minute out of their show to dump on this Saturday's UFC on FOX offering, describing it as "utterly boring and unwatchable". Price called Chael Sonnen's WWE style promo "an embarrassment" and they had a good laugh at a few tweets they had received suggesting that the UFC on FOX was more newsworthy sporting action than the NHL all-star game. (Talk about the pot calling the kettle black).
Vancouver is undoubtedly a one sport, one team, town (Hockey, the Vancouver Canucks) and a good portion of the sports media personalities working in the city often make a fool of themselves when pressed to provide anything but cookie cutter opinions on the rest of the sporting world. That being said I thought it was interesting to hear a take from those outside the "MMA bubble"; I have to say that despite their obvious lack of MMA knowledge, I agreed with their description of the event as boring. We all heard Joe Rogan describe Demian Maia and Chris Weidman as "two drunk guys outside a bar". For those familiar with the sport the action was better after that first misstep, but for a newbie, Sonnen/Bisping and Evans/Davis had little excitement.
The major mistake I think the UFC has made when it comes to their two FOX cards is that they are pushing their championships over exciting fights. For casual fans who don't really know what they are watching, the championships aren't important. If my first exposure to the sport left me yawning, why would I care who is the best? Even worse, if it was a boring championship fight that I was watching, why on earth would I ever watch it again?
Ben Henderson and Clay Guida was THE fight to put on FOX, according to most of the die-hards and the MMA media. Instead of their spectacular 15 minute whirlwind , we got Junior Dos Santos and Cain Velasquez sullying the most prestigious title in the organization within a minute. For this card we were treated to Chael Sonnen and Rashad Evans doing just enough to secure spots in championship matches of their own.
Sonnen appeals mostly to pro-wrestling fans who almost surely have already been exposed to MMA and either like it or don't. Those who think pro-wrestling is silly, (which is nearly everyone who doesn't think it's awesome) will likely think Chael is silly and they won't care whatsoever that he is great at tackling people and holding them there. If that was my first time watching MMA and I saw that fight and then saw that promo? I'd laugh my ass off. "He's calling it his Octagon? He barely even punched his opponent in the face!" Evans talked an awful lot before the fight, it seemed clear he was going to go out and knock Davis' block off. Of course, those familiar with the Evans/Jones saga can't really blame him for playing it safe but to the casual fan it must have seemed like like much ado over nothing.
So far the UFC fighters (strikers) that would appeal most to the mainstream have been nowhere to be seen, save for Junior Dos Santos, but his fight against Velasquez was too short and sweet for casuals not to dismiss Velasquez. Think about boxing, which is still the dominant combat sport out there. Even Mike Tyson, who was a known entity by the time he hit the big time, took a few rounds to dispatch of his foes. The heavyweight championship lasting just a minute is unheard of in boxing.
Now I completely understand that Dana White and Joe Silva want to use FOX to entice new fans to buy the pay per views but you can't just keep the most exciting fighters under lock and key unless someone pays $59.99 to see them. Carlos Condit and Nick Diaz are set to do battle at this weekend's UFC 143. I don't think anyone on the radio would be laughing today about "the single UFC fan who tweets the show" had the UFC flip flopped the main events.
Zuffa seems to have realized that they aren't putting enough firepower out there, booking Jim Miller against Nathan Diaz as one of the fights on the third FOX event. That fight, like Henderson/Guida, is just about as close as you can get to guaranteed fireworks. Here's hoping they find a way to get Nathan's brother Nick on the card, who is 100 times more exciting than Sonnen inside the ring and likely 10 times more interesting (to the casual fan) outside.
How do they say it? Third times a charm?
Let's hope so.
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Why?
So they can have another minute-long fight?
by sexysassytravismmafan on Jan 31, 2012 8:18 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, why not?
With a nice supporting cast of exciting fights. You show a trailer made of JDS/Overeem highlight reel KOs, and by the time main event rolls around, you’ll have tens of millions watching.
I tend to agree with this...
It’s win win really. If JDS wins he is only further promoted as the sport’s Heavyweight Champ and has an extremely marketable personality. And Overeem has massive pulling power and ability to pull in huge numbers of new fans. If he takes the title on Fox it will be huge for the UFC.
I saw it first hand while watching the Reem vs. Brock fight in Thailand with all of my friends instantly converted to the sport and asking me when Overeem is fighting next.
Don't be scared Gomi...
by ThatsHowIRoll on Jan 31, 2012 8:41 PM EST up reply actions
It has the most compelling backstory of Pride belts ,lineal titles, and, of course,the UFC belt all colliding for one ultra premium mega superfight brought to you by the most dominant beer in the world.
This fight can’t go wrong no matter what happens. Throw in some Bendo, Diaz, or anyon with some striking cred and you have an insane night of fights that will leave them in schock. A nutless monkey can make a fight card around this fight
Trainyard Sleepers: Our Foot Your Ass
by Hardy's in your face on Jan 31, 2012 9:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
JDS/Overeem – that is a money fight, should be on paperview.
by vivero on Feb 1, 2012 1:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
my dad is the definition of a casual
and these are the texts I got from him
UFC on Fox 1:
I don’t care about the back story just give me fights this isn’t american idol!
all that talking and 1 min of fighting!?
UFC on Fox 2:
well that was boring
that was boring too
these fights suck
Doing a 1 fight special for UFC on Fox 1 was a mistake from the get go. Too high of a chance of the fight not living up tot he build up and it didn’t.
UFC on Fox 2 was a mistake by putting a punch of decision machines on the card.
www.themindofshadow.blogspot.com/
Lol at the Idol comment!
Yeah I think the UFC is overestimating the relevance of “The UFC Championship” to casual fans, who just aren’t going to buy every event no matter what happens and just want to see some good scrapping.
The card was exciting as hell for me (going in at least) but they shouldn’t care about me, i’m buying the cards any which way they do it. But the talk I hear from people who don’t watch it regularly or at all makes me think they should be damning the titles and putting on fast paced, exciting fights. 3 rounds only, by the way.
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by Luke Nelson on Jan 30, 2012 10:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Here's a good FOX card
First fight: Tito Ortiz vs. Forrest Griffin III (name fighters for viewer pull)
Co-Main: Edgar/Bendo loser vs. winner of Pettis/Lauzon (Great fight to keep up interest for the card, builds lightweight division)
Main event: Aldo vs. whomever they label challenger (awesome main event, makes Aldo an American star)
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Aldo vs. Hioki would be a good fight
If Hioki can win in Japan then Aldo vs. Hioki should end up on there. Jose Aldo will put Hioki on his highlight reel and we’ll all be happy.
But it has appeal to casual fans
And to be honest, I think it’d just be Tito being unable to get takedowns and getting beat down in what could develop into a fun fight.
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I don't agree with the Edgar Bendo loser fight Pettis or J-Lo
Those two guys are on the fringe of top LW contenders. Doesn’t make sense to me to potentially burn the winner against a fighter that has stepped to the back of the line in terms of a title shot.
Don't be scared Gomi...
by ThatsHowIRoll on Jan 31, 2012 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
I really wasn't sure why they made the main card so wrestler/grappler heavy.
It was virtually a given that the fights would either devolve into sloppy kickboxing competitions, or wrestling matches where very little actually happened.
Where’s Hendo when you need him?
Hendo would be perfect for a Fox card
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by Luke Nelson on Jan 31, 2012 1:38 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
that nickname came from his ability to win close split decisions early in his career
Matt Janecek
MBA, 2011
An MBA on MMA: mixed martial arts thru the lens of business
mba-mma.blogspot.com
And?
galathrax still has a point.
"To me in this sport, it’s fighting, it’s mixed martial arts, and I feel there’s too many athletes and not enough fighters…I think these people going in taking these sports enhancement drugs, they’re not real fighters, they’re athletes. I’m a fighter. I’m a real fighter. That’s all I did my whole life." - BJ Penn
Half of Hendo's UFC wins were debatable decisions.
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by pdl on Feb 1, 2012 1:48 AM EST up reply actions
The matchmaking on the main card was a huge flub
They backed into a good fight with Bisping vs.Sonnen but even that was marred by a questionable decision. UFC on Fox 2 had the opposite problem of the first Fox card. Everyone was worried what would happen if that lasted 1 minute. With this one the exact opposite happened. This was Fox’s Strikeforce Nashville, but without the brawl.
A friend of mine checked it out and later told me she bailed out in the middle of the first fight.
This is a really good article
Head Kick Legend, you just obtained another reader.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
Just . . . wow
we got Junior Dos Santos and Cain Velasquez sullying the most prestigious title in the organization within a minute
Even Mike Tyson, who was a known entity by the time he hit the big time, took a few rounds to dispatch of his foes. The heavyweight championship lasting just a minute is unheard of in boxing.
Uhmmm, maybe you forgot about the complaints that some Tyson fights were too short.
Hmmm, the “Zuffa is doing it wrong” party line is getting tired really quick. It’s January. January. There were already two FREE shows. Not to mention that you’re able to watch the prelims on EITHER Fox Deportes or Fuel TV.
The Chael Sonnen “he’s doing the whole faux-WWE-promo spots wrong” critique is way overblown. I think the suggestion that he mostly (reads: only) appeals to the WWE crowd is exaggerated. Chael Sonnen is not just a wrestler. He certainly backed up all his talk when he faced Brian Stann on PPV. Please note, he won the fight via triangle choke. His fight-time jiu-jitsu is obviously improving. I always knew Bisping BJJ was good, if not great, but Sonnen has once again demonstrated that he is able to add more to his MMA game.
--------
" If you don't like seeing dead animals please stop following me." - Matt Hughes (45-9)
"When I watched it, it's like I became a fan of myself, too" - Frankie Edgar on UFC 136
"I actually held public office and I left the only way a politician should, in handcuffs" - Chael Sonnen
"but if there's anyone who wants to finish fights it's me." - GSP
Hmmm, the "Zuffa is doing it wrong" party line is getting tired really quick. It’s January. January. There were already two FREE shows. Not to mention that you’re able to watch the prelims on EITHER Fox Deportes or Fuel TV.
As mentioned below, this article is not a complaint from an MMA fan that the FOX cards were boring. It is asking the question: “Did the UFC book the wrong type of fighters, in trying to bring in new fans, on the first two FOX cards?”
Of course, I could be totally wrong in assuming that the UFC is using FOX to promote and try to bring in new fans. For all I know, DW and Lorenzo could have sat back and said “Thanks for the $90 million per. We don’t give a single fuck about bringing in new fans and will use the FOX events to give our loyal fan base free and meaningful fights.” If that’s the case, bravo UFC!
If it’s not the case, they are waaaaaaaaay over-valuing the meaning and importance of “UFC Championship” to Joe Sixpack. Seems much more likely to me that Dana was like “For the first fight on FOX we gotta get that clip of me saying, ‘At the end of the day, what really means something, is being the baddest man on the planet’, fuck yeah, that’ll get people pumped!!”
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by Luke Nelson on Jan 31, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
All of these points fall under the category of hindsite 20-20
When this card was first announced, the majority of MMA fans were very impressed with the quality of the 3 fights that would be aired. Now that the fights didn’t turn out to be exciting it’s a little too easy to say that the UFC and Fox blew it. Just like any other sporting event, the reason it’s fun to watch is that we don’t know what’s going to happen. The Super Bowl might be boring this weekend, but no one is going to say the NFL blew it if it is.
Matt Janecek
MBA, 2011
An MBA on MMA: mixed martial arts thru the lens of business
mba-mma.blogspot.com
thank you
for being captain obvious and saying what needed to be said.
they put on a ppv calibre card for free. and ppl bitch the put on a champ fight and ppl bitch. this is.why we can’t have nice things
He knows the guy with the bandage on his ass is going no were. Were you going fucking no were
by Elstriko on Jan 31, 2012 10:51 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I dont really see people bitching about the fights
But rather stating that the fights weren’t ideal for bringing in new viewers, which is exactly what they wanted to do with the shows on Fox.
No, your dumb
by RashadsLeftNipple on Jan 31, 2012 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
No, it sucks, everything sucks!
Trainyard Sleepers: Our Foot Your Ass
by Hardy's in your face on Jan 31, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
in hindsight, were these the greatest fights to put on? nope. but hindsight is hindsight.
the question is what should we have known at the time? I think the results there are more mixed.
at the time, JDS was coming off a couple straight decisions. seeing him win in 60 seconds was a bit of a surprise. i will admit, however, that leaving the guida/henderson fight off that card so we could get 30 mins of mindless bullshit was a horrendous decision. you did not need hindsight for that one.
as for this card, sonnen, bisping and evans are all big names for sure – all of them are love em or hate em, two of them got exposure from the show and one is crazy and has a big mouth. so i see where they were going there. unfortunately, those fights did not pan out – which should not have been totally surprising since all three fighters have won a lot of decisions in their time. and since “casual” viewers didn’t give a crap about their reptutations, i’m nto sure how that should have factored in.
personally i think luke has a bit of a point. they went with three "relevant’ fights with guys who, although they are all “stars”, are not renowned for their exciting styles. indeed, all three have been pilloried (to various degrees) for fighting “safe” or “boring.” if you are trying to reach new viewers, maybe someone like leonard garcia is more exciting than someone like michael bisping. sure, garcia sucks, but non-fans don’t know that.
When this card was first announced, the majority of MMA fans were very impressed with the quality of the 3 fights that would be aired.
The point of the article is that the UFC hasn’t put, on FOX, the type of fights that the majority of non-MMA fans would be very impressed with.
I was super excited for the card. I’ve also paid for just about every single event since UFC 70, (well, I’ve paid my share….I watch them with a group of friends) and will pay for every single event in the forseable future. While being very excited for the event, I also thought “Oh man, it wouldn’t be good for bringing in new fans if this card was filled with decisions, which it is likely to be.”
The Super Bowl might be boring this weekend, but no one is going to say the NFL blew it if it is.
The Super Bowl isn’t a great comparison; the Super Bowl is the culmination of a 522 game competition between 32 teams, which started in September. The NFL didn’t pick two teams at random to play in it.
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by Luke Nelson on Jan 31, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree completely
Lots of MMA fans thought this card was a huge risk because of the fighters on it when it was announced. The fights were all relevant and should have been on a PPV main card, but on a Fox card it was seen as extremely risky by many fans.
Here's a guideline
Throw in a Diaz. Use lightweights, featherweights. Stay away from the wrestlers. Really stay away from the wrestlers. Keep the HVWs to one fight max, and never, never have heavyweights fight in Denver or any high altitude ever again please. Also, I think if one of the prelims is particularly good, get it in there. Especially if it was on Fuel.
The best narrative is not one of enmity, or contention, but the story of exciting styles coming together in a war.
I think the UFC thought they would give out a highly valued fight as the first Fox fight. It was a good thought, but without a backup plan, and they were exposed. If they had some exciting prelims to get in there in case of a quick KO, they could have saved it. But I just can’t complain that they gave away Cain v JDS. I still think it was a great move, just not supported for all contingencies. If they really wanted a surefire barnburner, they should have put Diaz Condit out there. Nothing is for sure in the fight game but that is about as good as it gets on paper.
I thought Lay N Pray was a stupid insult until I watched Tyrone Woodly fight.
Zuffa should have seen a boring Sonnen fight and a boring Rashad fight coming from miles away. The fact that they didn’t tells me you are on the right track, they are putting too much stock into their titles. Nobody cares (casual fans) about who gets the next title shot if they think it’s going to be a snooze-fest. Not putting Guida/Bendo on the first show was a huge mistake. Let’s hope they do better with the next showing…
"If Tyson Griffin was a girl, I would say he has a badonkadonk." -Joe Rogan
but if they had put 'fun fights' on
The criticism would be “Did the ufc blow it by putting irrelevant fighters on?”
I'm starting to think describing a fight as "guarenteed fireworks"
will jinx it to be exactly the opposite.
by UncleMax on Jan 31, 2012 8:44 PM EST via Android app reply actions
They need to put fighters on the Fox card who are proven to be exciting everytime out
Nate Diaz vs Jim Miller is a good fight because they will definitely have a fast paced, exciting, and technical bout that could potential be a griffin-bonnar style effect on people.
1040 basically trolls everything that isn’t Canucks related.
Their broadcast after game 4 of the finals last year was hilariously biased, come game 6 they were making every excuse in the book and come game 7, oh it was so nice to hear them run out of excuses.
I don’t expect them to say anything nice about MMA unless a fighter comes out in a Luongo jersey, loses and then blames everyone but themselves.
It's just a world, it's just a life.
This has to fall on Joe Silva right?
Even if hindsight is twenty twenty, the UFC product has had great card after great card lately, with the Fox cards being the exceptions.
The UFC has to decide if they want big names or exciting fights. If they want the latter, all they have to do is put lightweights on the card. They also benefit from the fact that nearly every lightweight fight is relevant, because the division is so good that number one contenders are going to lose, and new contenders can come out of nowhere.
I dont think Dana needs Joe for the main, co-main event type of stuff. You know what a control freak dana is. He’s got his hands all over the top of every card. Dana did this cause he thought it would have been good stuff and it probably would have been a lot better if the original match ups went down.
Trainyard Sleepers: Our Foot Your Ass
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Just try to learn from Rafa. He is the one from whom you should seek guidance.
by Hardy's in your face on Jan 31, 2012 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
Outside of Bisping smashing Maia
It would have probably been much of the same.
by discoandherpes on Feb 1, 2012 1:18 AM EST up reply actions
Munoz might have ktfo’d chael.
I'm straight. That means I like women.
Trainyard Sleepers: Our Foot Your Ass
I'm not afraid of you, internet.
Just try to learn from Rafa. He is the one from whom you should seek guidance.
by Hardy's in your face on Feb 1, 2012 2:19 AM EST up reply actions
I seriously doubt it
He probably ends up on his back in that fight. Munoz is a not a good wrestler.
by discoandherpes on Feb 1, 2012 8:44 AM EST up reply actions
He would be able to stay off the canvass more than Bisping and would have opportunities in transitions to throw his bombs.
I'm straight. That means I like women.
Trainyard Sleepers: Our Foot Your Ass
I'm not afraid of you, internet.
Just try to learn from Rafa. He is the one from whom you should seek guidance.
by Hardy's in your face on Feb 1, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
it still would have been more of a stand up battle than what transpired plus Munoz thrives in close quarters with his nasty uppercuts. Just admit it , it would have been amore exciting fight with a FAR more likelihood of a tko
I'm straight. That means I like women.
Trainyard Sleepers: Our Foot Your Ass
I'm not afraid of you, internet.
Just try to learn from Rafa. He is the one from whom you should seek guidance.
by Hardy's in your face on Feb 1, 2012 10:39 PM EST up reply actions
Not sure about that… From what we’ve seen in both their fights so far, Bisping is much better at getting back to his feet than Munoz is. Had Sonnen been able to take Munoz down, it probably would’ve stayed to the ground the rest of the round. Bisping is just incredibly good at scrambling up to his feet, one of the best in MMA in my opinion.
He’s good at getting up there’s no doubt about it but he’s also taken down far more than Munoz and Munoz has tons more power. ON balance and in retrospect I think it’s pretty clear that the original 2 matchups would have been more exciting. Bisping / Maia way more exciting, Sonnen/ Munoz at least as exciting .
I'm straight. That means I like women.
Trainyard Sleepers: Our Foot Your Ass
I'm not afraid of you, internet.
Just try to learn from Rafa. He is the one from whom you should seek guidance.
by Hardy's in your face on Feb 3, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
Since we're on the subject of hindsight
Hendo vs Shogun would have been Bonnar vs Griffin all over again. Imagine the kind of excitement a Hendo vs Jones title fight would generate if that had been a title contender’s bout on a Fox card much like Evans vs Davis was.
And to take it even further, imagine if Hendo vs Shogun was main eventing a Fox card that also featured Jim Miller vs Melvin Guillard and Nick Diaz vs BJ Penn.
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Dana said in 'hindsight' after Hendo vs. Shogun
That he thanked God that fight wasn’t on the Fox debut or any Fox card for that matter because the UFC would have been dealing with a straight up shitstorm after such a hectic fight.
For me, one of the most exciting things I’ve ever seen. Mainstream fanbase UFC is targeting,… could be too much.
Don't be scared Gomi...
by ThatsHowIRoll on Feb 1, 2012 12:38 AM EST up reply actions
Dana White is lying
The ratings spike that Hendo/Shogun would have gotten on Fox would have been nuts. They would have smashed ratings records into pieces.
That whole argument is wack. If someone can’t handle our sport at its greatest, they don’t deserve to watch it in the first place.
by discoandherpes on Feb 1, 2012 1:20 AM EST up reply actions
If that fight would’ve been a 3 rounder, I entirely agree with you. But as a 5 rounder, most casual fans would’ve gone from amazement in the early rounds to laughing by the end. Those professional athletes badly gassing in a fight? What kind of sport is that.
If someone can't understand that people gas after getting the shit beat out of them
Then they deserve to get the shit beat out of them.
by discoandherpes on Feb 1, 2012 8:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Edgar/Maynard didn’t gas over 9 rounds of fighting and beating the shit of each other… Hendo is 41-42 and way past his prime in terms of conditionning, and Shogun’s never been known to have good conditionning. What I’m saying is that these two aren’t the best example of professional fighters in MMA to showcase the sport as having elite athletes.
Maynard did gas, and Edgar is could probably fight at bantamweight
So it isn’t an fair to compare guys who are very light to light heavyweights in terms of endurance.
by discoandherpes on Feb 1, 2012 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Why not? There’s plenty of bigger guys that don’t gas… Cain, for example. And even if you do have a limited gas tank, you can combat that by fighting smart. Whatever. You think that was the greatest fight ever, and I think only the first 3 rounds of that fight were good.
I don't think that was the greatest fight ever
But it is better than every single fight aired on Fox combined.
by discoandherpes on Feb 2, 2012 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
at the nd of the fifth round...
was I the only one yelling ARMBAR when Shogun had Hendo in the mount?
I know he was tired, but hendo’s arm was fully extended almost as if he was trying to scratch the back of shogun’s head.
One of my all time favs.
I recently quit drinking carbonated beverages.
I think, part of the reason
why UFC puts names on FOX is to have a storyline that fans can follow to make them buy PPVs. Sure we place Guida/Hendo on FOX – but will fans pay a Henderson PPV because he had a great fight? Even hardcores pass on PPV which have a potential of good fights. They tend to reserve their money on relevant fights with bigger names on it. It just so happens that Davis/Evans didnt really deliver.
Maia / Bisping should have been a decent to great match if that came to fruition. Either a huge sub or a Bisping KO would have happen. Then you have a relevant contender to follow on a PPV.
Sonnen / Munoz – coud have been a fair match because of the aggresiveness of both fighters – which would build a contender to be followed in a PPV against Silva.
Sonnen/Bisping imo delivered. It wasnt a bad match neither it was great. Sonnen’s post fight interview made it more interesting. It would have been better if he did beat the hell out of Bisping or vice versa. But it is what it is. But I’ll bet Sonnen did earn some fans, not much but some.
JDS/Cain was the experiment. It was an costly welcome party to entice repeat customers no matter who was the winner. It would have been a great match if Cain decided not to stand up against the better striker. But, Dos Santos fucked everything up.
Shit happens. UFC shall move on.
JDS vs Reem as main event
Rampage and Thiago co main
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