Demian Maia - sufferer of "Gurgelism"
by vanandrew on Jan 29, 2012 5:23 AM EST
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PrintFollowing his decision loss to Chris Weidman at UFC on FOX: Evan vs. Davis, it has been reported that Demian Maia has been diagnosed with gurgelism.
Gurgelism - A condition where a "world class brazilian jiu jitsu artist" will choose not to use their submission skills in a fight.
Instead they will attempt to win the fight with strikes, under the impression that they are a "high-level striker".
There is no known treatment for this condition.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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I'm sick of people with amazing JJ not having the toolset to get it to the ground
FFS people
¬_¬
by ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ on Jan 29, 2012 7:01 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
they were on the ground.
I rewatched it, a few minutes ago, and Maia just kept looking for ways to get up. He wasn’t looking to sweep, or to get a submission.
by Anton Tabuena on Jan 29, 2012 9:49 AM EST up reply actions
Maia has above average takedowns and guard pulls,
but Weidman is an exceptional wrestler and natural grappler. If you don’t think that Maia has the toolset to score takedowns, then you’ve probably only ever seen the Weidman fight and the Anderson fight.
"God loves violence... Why else would there be so much of it? It's in us. It's what we are. We wage war, we burn sacrifices, and pillage and plunder and tear at the flesh of our brothers. And why? Because God gave us violence to wage in his honor... There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?"
- Warden of Ashecliffe Hospital
by ElliotMatheny on Jan 29, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
Having the toolset and using it are two different things
besides, he doesn’t flow from striking to wrestling to JJ, it’s modes that he switches from
¬_¬
by ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ on Jan 29, 2012 6:50 PM EST up reply actions
Teaching an old dog new tricks, etc etc
"God loves violence... Why else would there be so much of it? It's in us. It's what we are. We wage war, we burn sacrifices, and pillage and plunder and tear at the flesh of our brothers. And why? Because God gave us violence to wage in his honor... There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?"
- Warden of Ashecliffe Hospital
by ElliotMatheny on Jan 29, 2012 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
Its almost like someone came up to Maia and insulted his striking so badly that he felt like he needed to prove something.
I can understand if Maia didn’t want to take Wideman down, but when Wideman took Maia down, all Maia would do is get right back up. He didnt work for one sub on the ground.
Former K-1 Level Predictions Team>> BE Civil War Season 1 Champs!
Working for subs on the ground with current MMA judging would have lost him the fight
Especially because I doubt Maia was ever going to submit Weidman.
by discoandherpes on Jan 29, 2012 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
lol
Well standing and trying to out strike him clearly didnt work for him.
I think it’s gone to his head that his striking has improved.
It went from awful, to decent enough to win him a few fights (Santiago, Grove, Miranda). But now he’s using it as his go-to offense, and it didnt work for him (against Wideman or Munoz).
He needs to mix his striking with his BJJ
Former K-1 Level Predictions Team>> BE Civil War Season 1 Champs!
by Fedorable on Jan 29, 2012 8:53 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
He lit him up actually
If my memory serves correctly
by discoandherpes on Jan 29, 2012 9:48 AM EST up reply actions
I guess Munoz was a bad example
But my point is that he’s making his striking become his #1 weapon of attack. Why not use his striking to set up a takedown, pull guard, or somehow get the fight to the ground, where he can use his bread and butter
Former K-1 Level Predictions Team>> BE Civil War Season 1 Champs!
Becauae the last time he fought a high level wrestler
Which was munoz he got outgrappled. That’s what I’m thinking
by benten20 on Jan 29, 2012 9:59 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
he's a grappler though
that’s the kind of cardio he should have for days
i remember renzo making a similar point after the hughes fight
he could roll for hours no problem but striking is a different story
and even then i don’t even mean taking weidman down
every time maia worked his way up from the bottom he’d reach a good position,like the rear clinch but then separate
he could have done so much more, both with the position and his guard
this^
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
I assume he could have pulled half guard or threatened a leglock off a failed single, butterfly off a failed double
by Seneca Savoie on Jan 29, 2012 9:19 AM EST up reply actions
Pulling guard is an easy way to lose an MMA fight
And do we forget that Weidman is a legit grappler?
by discoandherpes on Jan 29, 2012 9:23 AM EST up reply actions
Exactly
People think as soon as it hit the mat that Chris was done. He held his own against Galvao, he could just as easily do it against Maia. Maia had an incredibly small chance of winning from his back. On the feet they were competitive, and he had the chance of clipping Weidman with a haymaker.
"I knew I hurt him cause when I throw the elbow he went ugghh" - GSP
This
People forget that subs in MMA aren’t exactly easy to pull off; successfully defending positions and sub attempts doesn’t require as much skill as it does to pull them off. The Jacare-Rockhold fight and this one should remind us of that fact.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Jan 29, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
Maia
Showed he could rock his base from 1/2, but used it to stand up instead of sweeping. I don’t think it’s over once it hits the mat, but I do think the guy with world class sweeps may have a better chance from a position with high-percentage sweeps. Just like he did with Chael, he can disturb balance enough to prevent from being flattened. If he was entering 1/2 or butterfly on his terms, he had the chance to not start the groundfighting flat on his back where his leverage was comprimised.
by Seneca Savoie on Jan 29, 2012 4:55 PM EST up reply actions
You know what would've worked?
If he wouldn’t have fought, just stayed home and coached somebody from his armchair. 100% success rate.
by WheelieMonkey on Jan 29, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
hes had success getting it to the ground before
Did you see his fight with sonnen?
by benten20 on Jan 29, 2012 9:53 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Weidman is a better wrestler than Sonnen. And has better submission defense.
"You know, these guys want to talk about God. 'Oh, I want to thank God. I want to thank God.' Listen, I'm a God-fearing man, go to church every Sunday and have since I was a boy. But if I ever found out that God cared one way or another about a borderline illegal fist-fight on Saturday night, I would be so greatly disappointed that it would make rethink my entire belief system." ~ Chael Sonnen.
Phil Davis' creditials far exceeded Rashad's
And Davis got out wrestled and out struck that entire fight.
by discoandherpes on Jan 29, 2012 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
MMA wrestling doesn't equal pure wrestling
so you are correct. Just because one guy is a national champ/ Olympian or whatever doesn’t mean he is going to be a good MMA wrestler. I have witnessed high school wrestlers out wrestle or at least nullify division one wrestlers in MMA. Michael Johnsons fight last night is a prime example. And I know first hand that Mike was a good but by no means great wrestler even at the high school level. Some wrestling styles just don’t translate as well as others.
I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!
Last sentence=good point
Everyone assumes that very collegiate wrestlers style is a heavy double or single leg style. Just like they’re guys who are one dimensional in MMA, there are guys who are one dimensional in wrestling, guys who only have one move that they’re good with.
Munoz is a perfect example of possessing a wrestling style that doesn’t really translate into MMA very well. Brock Lesnar had more credentials than GSP, but anyone with any sort of analytical brain can tell that GSP is a much more well rounded wrestler with a more diverse skill set (specifically when chaining together take down attempts).
by discoandherpes on Jan 29, 2012 10:33 PM EST up reply actions
I might be mistaken
But I think Jordan Burroughs talked at length about the subject with Luke Thomas, it was extremely interesting stuff.
BECW Season 2 Captain of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team - 80% more INEPT than all of you, 8 times out of 12
Please visit the Daniel James Miller Foundation and donate.
by wonderfulspam on Jan 29, 2012 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
I'm going to hit google up tomorrow
Have to check that out if that’s the case.
by discoandherpes on Jan 29, 2012 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
Here you go
Luke Thomas: Talk to me about wrestling in MMA. We had a guy who fought recently in Strikeforce. He was a little bit older, Yoel Romero, Cuban guy who won the [silver] medal in the Olympics. He couldn’t take down a guy who had no wrestling background whatsoever. In your judgement, why does that happen?
Jordan Burroughs: I’m not sure. I mean, other people excel at different positions. Maybe that wasn’t a strong point, sticking on his feet. Maybe just because he was an Olympic medalist doesn’t mean he’s great on his feet. He might keep good positioning and be hard to score but wasn’t very offensive. It’s one of those things, we’ve got guys that are very offensive and can take down anyone and we’ve got guys that don’t shoot at all but are very hard to take down. It’s one of those things, you’ve got to decide what you’re good at.
BECW Season 2 Captain of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team - 80% more INEPT than all of you, 8 times out of 12
Please visit the Daniel James Miller Foundation and donate.
by wonderfulspam on Jan 29, 2012 10:59 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
And I got it mixed up with Roth's interview with Weidman
Which was equally interesting:
Matthew Roth (BloodyElbow.com) – You bring up something that I’ve always wanted to ask somebody about. You said you were a technical wrestler. Can you explain the differences between technical wrestling like yourself and Phil Davis and the power wrestling that UFC fans are used to seeing?
Chris Weidman – Yeah, it just depends on the athlete usually. Sometimes guys have one or two moves that they’re really good at. I had a wide arsenal of different techniques. I always looked to do something new. I never just stuck to one move. There’s a lot of wrestlers that were just good at double legs and if you take them out of that zone and put them on a single leg they don’t feel comfortable. I always felt pretty comfortable everywhere because I was putting myself in those positions throughout my career. I was comfortable trying to learn techniques from all positions. There’s some guys who are really good at exploding through with double legs and there are guys that are better picking up a single leg and running the pipe. I think it usually depends on the person’s body type. If he’s explosive he’s gonna run through ya. If he’s not as explosive he’s gonna sweep it out and use more technique.
Source
BECW Season 2 Captain of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team - 80% more INEPT than all of you, 8 times out of 12
Please visit the Daniel James Miller Foundation and donate.
by wonderfulspam on Jan 29, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Something else people don’t look at is that some people just don’t like getting hit in the face. I have had the privilege to train with a lot of high level D1 wrestlers and when you ask some of them if they are going to fight MMA they will straight up tell you “no, I don’t like getting hit in the face.” Some guys in MMA have this mentality but they still try to fight. It usually doesn’t work out in the long run. For example Brock Lesnar.
I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!
That was the most amazing throw into a submission I’ve ever seen. You only catch someone in something like that once in a long time.
by discoandherpes on Jan 29, 2012 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
He couldnt maia looked terrible. I agree that he turned into another gurgel and what a shame that is to say. Also did you notice when it did go to ground he wouldn’t roll with weidman wtf he would just bounce right back up.
by youfailme91 on Jan 29, 2012 9:03 AM EST via mobile reply actions
He couldnt maia looked terrible. I agree that he turned into another gurgel and what a shame that is to say. Also did you notice when it did go to ground he wouldn’t roll with weidman wtf he would just bounce right back up.
by youfailme91 on Jan 29, 2012 9:04 AM EST via mobile reply actions
This is the dumbest new idea that's taken flight around here
Maia tried seven times to take Weidman down. If you wanted him to pull guard, you don’t understand how good Weidman is. He would’ve shut Maia’s guard down all day.
He won his fight with Santiago primarily through grappling. Same thing with Grove. Same thing with Miranda. He grappled with Munoz and lost a decision.
he beat the crap out of munoz standing up
by benten20 on Jan 29, 2012 9:54 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
6 of his take down attemps were in round 3 when he was clearly exhausted.
The fight hit the ground 3 times in the first two rounds, with Weidman getting the TD’s, and Maia getting up instantly.
I get that Weidman is a good grappler, but Maia is an elite grappler. I find it really hard to believe that Weidman is so good already, as a blue belt, that he nullifies all of Maia’s BJJ.
Former K-1 Level Predictions Team>> BE Civil War Season 1 Champs!
Weidman is every bit as elite as Maia
He gave Andre Galvao a war in the 2009 ADCC. And that was over two years ago. Maia was not going to submit him by playing guard in an MMA fight.
It didn’t matter how fresh or how tired Maia was. He knew he wasn’t getting Weidman to the ground, but he tried out of desperation.
maia has submitted elite grapplers before
by benten20 on Jan 29, 2012 10:23 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Pretty sure Maia's the better grappler
But when it comes to MMA, just being on top will win you rounds and it’s a lot easier to defend than attack.
Yeah
In today’s MMA, Oleg Tektarov would have been decisioned. BAM! Old School!
I thought Lay N Pray was a stupid insult until I watched Tyrone Woodly fight.
Wrong... its called a takedown deficiency
I don’t think its that he didn’t want to fight on the ground its that the superior wrestler wouldn’t let him take it there.
I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!
Maia's Gurgelism could have actually won him the fight
Too bad he didn’t have any better cardio than the gassed Weidman that fought on short notice. Weidman was a sitting duck in third, but unfortunately so was Maia.
by paythefighters on Jan 29, 2012 11:36 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
my view
To me, it did indeed look like Demian was simply using his BJJ to stand up when taken down – he did not look to remain on the bottom and set up any attacks or sweeps. Why this is so, I do not know.
He also looked completely gassed by the third round, and he looked slow and robotic the entire fight. This is odd, since usually looks like he’s in shape and ready to rock. He seemed very flat, both in terms of his muscularity and his movement. Again: odd.
One fact to note: the change of opponent truly mattered in this fight. He went from a “utility type fighter” in Michael Bisping to a very talented grappler in Weidman. That may have hampered his gameplan and his mindset.
I’m a big fan of Maia, since his BJJ is awe-inspiring and he comports himself like a true humble gentleman in his interviews and press conferences. The world needs more men like him, quite frankly. This sport sure as hell does. I’ll be rooting for him to rebound from this loss with some tweaks to his training/conditioning program and perhaps a better gameplan for his opponents in the future.
I now have a signature statement. Behold!
by glib_mf on Jan 29, 2012 1:15 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
he did not look to remain on the bottom and set up any attacks or sweeps. Why this is so, I do not know.
Because a wrestler of Weidman’s quality is almost impossible to sweep, and spending the round on your back hunting for subs is usually a good way to lose a round, as Miguel Torres can tell you. While Demian did look awful, the funny thing is had he a little more gas in his tank he probably could have taken that fight standing.
"You know, these guys want to talk about God. 'Oh, I want to thank God. I want to thank God.' Listen, I'm a God-fearing man, go to church every Sunday and have since I was a boy. But if I ever found out that God cared one way or another about a borderline illegal fist-fight on Saturday night, I would be so greatly disappointed that it would make rethink my entire belief system." ~ Chael Sonnen.
Good points
It is indeed difficult to work with a solid wrestler on top of you, but Maia is world class with his BJJ. And as for losing when you are on the bottom, hell, he was losing standing up, so I figure he should have received advice from his corner, “Hey, Demian, we love you, but you are behind on the scorecards here. Submit him or lose, brother.” Then, go out and try to do it. Maybe he believed that he could knock Weidman out. Who knows.
I now have a signature statement. Behold!
I'll agree that it was too late by the third for him to start shooting takedowns
Maybe if he’d even threatened with them he might have caused Weidman more problems.
"You know, these guys want to talk about God. 'Oh, I want to thank God. I want to thank God.' Listen, I'm a God-fearing man, go to church every Sunday and have since I was a boy. But if I ever found out that God cared one way or another about a borderline illegal fist-fight on Saturday night, I would be so greatly disappointed that it would make rethink my entire belief system." ~ Chael Sonnen.
Here's the thing, Jorge Gurgel isn't a good fighter even when he uses his BJJ
Didn’t he get subbed by Cole Miller?
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
Rec'd to the heavens
All you needed was the title and nothing else. This is a guy who at one point outwrestled Chael Sonnen.
follow me on twitter @polyh3dron
Babalu outwrestled Chael Sonnen. Michael Bisping gave him a hard time.
He’s not Chael Sanderson, you know.
"You know, these guys want to talk about God. 'Oh, I want to thank God. I want to thank God.' Listen, I'm a God-fearing man, go to church every Sunday and have since I was a boy. But if I ever found out that God cared one way or another about a borderline illegal fist-fight on Saturday night, I would be so greatly disappointed that it would make rethink my entire belief system." ~ Chael Sonnen.
"There is no known treatment for this condition."
I disagree
by mikeI981j on Jan 29, 2012 6:35 PM EST reply actions 7 recs
KJ Noons. That strike was right at the end of round 1 I believe, the fist colliding with Gurgel's jaw just after the bell rang
Gurgel continued on and was TKO’d in the next round
That was the first round, this was the second
by mikeI981j on Jan 29, 2012 8:59 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I hate KJ.
And I especially hate how his hands are at his sides while he throws here, as in all of his punches. But this is one sick combo.
Share for share, share alike, you'll get struck each time I strike.
This actually CAUSED the Gurgelism.
Before that, Maia was afflicted with Gracie syndrome; an unshakable belief that BJJ is the only necessary focus of training for MMA, and an accompanying refusal to evolve as a fighter.
Share for share, share alike, you'll get struck each time I strike.
by gzl5000 on Jan 29, 2012 10:11 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
Naw...
They were talking in that fight about how he wanted to try some of his newly trained standup.
by Scott Whitaker on Jan 31, 2012 2:05 AM EST up reply actions
Marquardt...
Marquardt the merciful!
"Hey, there's some blood in this puke. We could go sharking with that."
by I, machine on Jan 31, 2012 1:23 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Remember this fight?
That was clearly 2-3 seconds after the bell rang..a total cheap shot
Former K-1 Level Predictions Team>> BE Civil War Season 1 Champs!
lol
It was not “clearly 2-3 seconds after the bell”. Roughly half a second.
Remind me to ignore any “facts” in future posts of yours…
by paythefighters on Jan 29, 2012 11:16 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Please, help us find a cure!....
Don't be scared Gomi...
by ThatsHowIRoll on Jan 29, 2012 10:13 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Stand n' Wang
Someone please post the gif of Andy Wang crying.
by discoandherpes on Jan 29, 2012 10:34 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Former K-1 Level Predictions Team>> BE Civil War Season 1 Champs!
by Fedorable on Jan 29, 2012 10:43 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
You sir...
Just got yourself a rec
Don't be scared Gomi...
by ThatsHowIRoll on Jan 29, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions
yeah it sounds pretty disgusting
urrg i have a large Gurgelism growing between my toes it’s moving by itself
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