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Two Pillowfists Collide with a Quiet Puff: Sonnen v. Bisping, Stockton Rules.

Bisping and Sonnen both have a reputation, deserved or not, as guys who can’t finish fights. Bisping’s preferred jab and jog strategy sees him land a high volume of low power strikes, while Sonnen prefers to maintain top control and land enough low power ground and pound to avoid a stand up. These strategies have served these men well. Even when they don’t finish fights, they tend to make it to the decision, and decisions favor them.

Nick Diaz once said something like, “the guy who looks more fucked up at the end of the fight is the loser.” This one sentence expresses the entirety of Stockton Rules—a popular alternate rule for radical fight fans who think that hurting someone is the point of fighting, and are tired of fighters winning because of whatever “octagon control” is. Under Stockton Rules, Sonnen and Bisping are both big losers.

Sonnen has two notable fights in his current UFC run where he controlled his opponents from the top, scored points, and won rounds under the unified rules, but would have lost under Stockton rules. One was against Anderson Silva. Sonnen was close to a dominant decision victory before falling victim to his classic blunder: getting choked with a triangle. The other was against Nate Marquardt. Sonnen actually managed to not get choked and won a decision. But after both fights, despite supposedly dominating his opponents, Sonnen looked extremely fucked up. Despite proclaiming that he can punch holes in peoples’ faces (or, at least, Anderson Silva’s) Sonnen has failed to punch even bruises into anyone’s face, while Marquardt and Silva both managed to elbow cuts into his face from their backs.

Bisping may be an even greater Stockton Rules loser. To paraphrase Jorge Rivera, “Every fight you’ve won a decision in, you’ve lost.” The man has a point. Watching Michael Bisping win decisions after reeling around the cage eating power punches like crumpets from men like Akiyama and Hamill, it’s easy to think that landing more punches than your unscathed opponent shouldn’t be enough to win.

If both men try to implement their prime strategies, their ability to win under unified rules leaves us with something of a stalemate. Conventionally, takedowns score higher than dozens of jabs, which obviously favors Sonnen’s preferred strategy. But with neither fighter actually capable of hurting the other with their A games, we’re sure to have a Stockton rules stalemate.

But what if they don’t end up using their primary attacks?

As it happens, under Stockton rules at least, both men’s ancillary weapons might be better than their primary weapons. Sonnen recently bragged that he’s never been out struck. He did try pulling guard against Terry Martin, but he was injured, and the point is debateable. That it actually is debateable is a)unnerving, and b) a testament to how good a striker Sonnen really is. While Anderson Silva got the better of Sonnen overall in their fight, Sonnen managed the impossible by actually stumbling Anderson. Chael has a singular aversion to the truth, but when madmen hint at the truth it’s always profound.

Bisping is like a bizzarro world Sonnen. For all the power he lacks in his standing strikes, he can sure beat the shit out of a grounded opponent. His fight with Dennis Kang is probably the best example of this. Kang lit Bisping up for the first round, knocking him down and making him look like a chump. In the second, Bisping took a page out of his fellow Wolfslair fighter, Kongo’s, book by pretending to be a wrestler when he got out struck. The result was Bisping brutalizing Kang and making him look like a chump. For another example, look no further than Bisping’s crushing knee that changed the course of his fight with Jorge Rivera. Devastating power.

For fans of Stockton rules, this could be a fight with no real winner, where nobody gets fucked up. On the other hand, both of these guys could end up actually hurting each other if, for whatever reason, they choose to fight outside of their typical styles. Sonnen could Hendo Bisping. Bisping could manage to ground Sonnen and smash him, legally or not. For what it’s worth, I think the former is far more likely. Bisping getting Sonnen down is a long shot, and keeping him down is longer.

But if either fighter successfully implements his primary strategy, will anyone actually enjoy this fight?


The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.

Comment 38 comments  |  6 recs  | 

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For all of Bisping’s striking ability his conservative approach makes him…unappealing.

Love the notion of Stockton rules – I’ve always called it the ‘face test’ – he with the worst face at the end of the fight is the loser.

by vanandrew on Jan 27, 2012 10:27 PM EST reply actions  

I’m not a Bisping fan, but the man does have an undeserved reputation as a guy who only wins by decision. He’s got 12 wins in the UFC, and eight of those were (T)KOs. That includes guys like Dennis Kang and Jason Miller, who had very few knockout losses on long records of facing some quality opponents. He’s also showed good power recently against Miller and Jorge Rivera. And I remember Chris Leben’s face wasn’t exactly unblemished at the end of their match.

In short, I think Bisping has improved a lot as a fighter, and it’s probably the way he comes off in interviews that that makes people want to ignore that. I definitely agree with your post that he’s shown big improvements in his ground and pound.

by theslynx on Jan 27, 2012 11:21 PM EST reply actions  

He's really good

But he doesn’t hit hard.

"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva

"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson

by TheFilt on Jan 27, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions  

He hits hard enough and regularly enough to earn stoppages in two-thirds of his wins. That’s a better rate than many guys who are known for hitting hard (e.g Rampage, Chris Leben, etc.). And that actually makes him a bit similar (in this aspect) to the Diaz brothers, in that people often like to say they’re volume rather than power punchers. I guess that might be true, but Bisping, like the Diaz Bros, hit people hard enough to hurt and stop them.

I don’t know. I think the term ‘pillowfist’ can be (jokingly?) applied to guys like Jake Shields – otherwise a good fighter – but there’s clearly something wrong with saying a guy can’t throw a punch when he has eight (T)KOs in the UFC.

by theslynx on Jan 28, 2012 12:23 AM EST up reply actions  

Woah woah woah

it’s 8/12 or 80%…. none of this 2/3 garbage!

Also Jake Shields is a blanket or a doorstop after the Hendricks fight.

Facts, we gotta get em straight here at BE

Bloodyelbow is my facebook

by soilworker on Jan 28, 2012 1:01 AM EST up reply actions  

As soon as I hit reply, I noticed that and hoped no one else would.

Although I can cover my tracks by saying I meant for his career as a whole. Which is not what I meant.

by theslynx on Jan 28, 2012 1:24 AM EST up reply actions  

No

It’s 8/12 or 2/3, not 80%. Divide 8 by 4 you get 2, divide 12 by 4 you get 3. Divide 8 by 12 or 2 by 3 and you get 0.6666…

by Mortschlag on Jan 28, 2012 5:54 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I think we were both just goofing around.

by theslynx on Jan 28, 2012 6:14 AM EST up reply actions  

This guy is good at math, but he is no Bisping.

Did you see the size of that chicken?

by Heenan on Jan 28, 2012 7:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Agreed, he’s looked bad recently. But they fought back in 2009, when Kang hadn’t declined nearly as much.

by theslynx on Jan 28, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions  

Can't they both lose?

I’m not a fan of Bisping but at least he isn’t a delusional pathological liar like Sonnen. If Bisping says something stupid it’s usually just his opinion, as wrong as it might be.

Sonnen on the other hand, is incapable of saying anything truthful and tries to pass off his delusional opinions as facts.

I’m hoping for the mutual KO and they both lose!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxApKBCUJkg

by Maj. Fight Fan on Jan 27, 2012 11:39 PM EST reply actions  

I recced you

Just for that title.

I thought Lay N Pray was a stupid insult until I watched Tyrone Woodly fight.

by DankNabbot on Jan 28, 2012 12:25 AM EST reply actions   2 recs

This is some good writing

"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva

"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson

by TheFilt on Jan 28, 2012 12:33 AM EST reply actions  

Damn dude, you are always the voice of reason.

I always find myself wanting to rec your comments multiple times!

by Skoobs on Jan 28, 2012 12:42 AM EST up reply actions  

I agree. Whenever either of them decide to step outside of their styles they show some impressive power. But they usually don’t.

by mcgriff on Jan 28, 2012 1:59 AM EST up reply actions  

agreed

For people who haven’t experienced it, sometimes being hit a with a whole sitload of medium power punches is a lot worse than 1 or 2 hard ones. At least in my experience. You shake the hard ones off and keep going. Eventually with the volume punches your just like fuck stop, my lip is bleeding, my nose is bleeding, my head hurts, my ribs hurt, my eyes are swollen, and my jaw hurts.

I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!

by attgnp on Jan 28, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Dead on

Additionally, it totally screws up your own rhythm; if you’re constantly trying to avoid their volume striking, you never have a real chance of landing solid shots of your own.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Jan 28, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, you can’t really put an offense together if you keep getting hit over and over. It makes you start to hesitate due to the reaction from getting hit, and then with that hesitation you get hit more and more which becomes a slippery slope. In my case if people were out voluming me the best thing I could do was to eat a few and just go into them hard in hopes of tagging them and over whelming and then putting them on their ass and into my world.

I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!

by attgnp on Jan 28, 2012 5:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Yep

I try to get out, reset, and throw a hard leg kick to back them off before I move in aggressively.

Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard

by Patrick Wyman on Jan 29, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions  

...

Ahoy-hoy.
Last round pick of the Filipino Reccing Machines

by Sugel Mendoza on Jan 28, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Elliot knows whats going on

But I think hes wrong about tonights fight being a decision and I still say sonnen stops bisping tonight =)

by mikeI981j on Jan 28, 2012 6:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Sonnen stopped Bisping

from getting a shot at Anderson’s belt… but that’s about it.

"God loves violence... Why else would there be so much of it? It's in us. It's what we are. We wage war, we burn sacrifices, and pillage and plunder and tear at the flesh of our brothers. And why? Because God gave us violence to wage in his honor... There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?"
- Warden of Ashecliffe Hospital

by ElliotMatheny on Jan 29, 2012 2:56 AM EST up reply actions  

i’ll take it =D but he looked like shit tonight.

by mikeI981j on Jan 29, 2012 5:07 AM EST up reply actions  

Man

I just watched the presser backstage stuff and I hate, I HATE to admit this, but I thought Bisping was pretty effin funny, and Chael is a dork. I never saw the dorkyness to all his rambling before. I actually came off that liking Bisping. I am going to go back and rewatch some TUFs and find the loathing again.

In all seriousness, I think Bisping has announcer or analyst potential; guy has great hair, good looking, a good/decent patter, and talks to the camera in a very comfortable way. Unlike Sonnen, who often feels like he is forcing it, Bisping seems very comfortable in his own skin. Meh, w/e. I still have the feeling this has the potential to be a very boring fight-I hope not.

I thought Lay N Pray was a stupid insult until I watched Tyrone Woodly fight.

by DankNabbot on Jan 28, 2012 12:38 AM EST reply actions  

By Stockton rules, Crocop beat Fedor.

by CstBoog on Jan 28, 2012 11:19 AM EST reply actions  

yeah in some cases stockton rules are not always right

I have seen fights where one guy clearly beats the living shit out of the other guy, but because he shows damage worse ends up looking like he came out getting beat up.

I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!

by attgnp on Jan 28, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions  

prime example

some peoples skin just shows damage worse. Honestly I am a good example of that. When I used to fight and we’d spar, somebody could flick me in the nose and my nose would bleed. I didn’t matter how bad I could kick the shit out of them, if they touched my nose there was a good chance it would bleed a little.

I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!

by attgnp on Jan 28, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

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