Prospects who didn't pan out...
Less a FanPost, more meant to trigger a discussion.
Reading Leland and Smoogy's excellent Scouting Report pieces (and particularly Smoogy's follow-up pieces on 2011's picks) got me thinking - for every prospect that's made it big in the UFC or elsewhere (Tyson Griffin for instance off the top of my head had a lot of hype around him pre-UFC and has done well for himself...) there must be loads that just fall off for some reason or another or never live up to the expectations put on them. Who would you guys put into that category? A discussion on this could be fun I thought (or not given a couple of my picks!) because people are bound to come up with fighters that make you go "oh shit, I remember that guy and the hype around him!". Here's a few that instantly came to my mind:
Justin Levens - back in late 2005 there was a ton of hype around Justin as I remember it, as he'd ran up a 7-0 record and looked pretty damn good in doing so, particularly in a really great WEC match with Jorge Oliveira. It was fully expected that he'd end up in the UFC and go on to stardom in 2006 and hell, I even recall the word being that Zuffa had all but offered the winner of his fight with Scott Smith a contract. Of course Levens lost that fight and never really recovered from the knockout loss, and although he *did* make it to the UFC anyway, it was as a late replacement against Evan Tanner in a largely one-sided loss. Even then I figured Tanner was a super-tough opponent for your UFC debut and he'd go on to be a steady mid-level guy in UFC, but then he got knocked out by Jorge Santiago and ended up going on the horrendous slide that lead to his suicide in 2008. Sad stuff.
Edson Drago - You could sort of say this guy was the prototype Junior Dos Santos back in 2005/6 when he first emerged from Brazil, as he was a Nogueira brothers student who was knocking everyone dead with his hands. I remember expecting him to go onto massive success in the UFC or PRIDE after he smashed up Tengiz Tedoradze over here in the UK on a Cage Rage show. Really brutal knockout, that one. There was also the incident in Brazil where he beat his opponent down and basically refused to stop, which was a bit unsavoury. He was signed by PRIDE after the Tedoradze win and I figured he'd be shot to the upper echelon in no time, but he ended up losing in one-sided fashion to Pawel Nastula and Yoshihiro KISS of all people, and his career never recovered as he lost his next fight to British kickboxer Gary Turner and then had a serious motorcycle accident that put him out of action until 2009. He hasn't fought since a loss in November 2009 to recent UFC debutant Edinaldo Oliveira.
Zelg Galesic - Burst onto the UK scene in 2006 with some vicious knockouts and then showed a solid ground game by armbarring kickboxer Curtis Stout too. People were calling him 'Little Mirko' and all sorts at that point. Then he went to Japan - PRIDE and K-1 Hero's - and subsequently got tapped by a pair of Judokas with losing records at the time. While he did win a couple of fights in DREAM afterwards he never really showed the flashes of potential that he'd done against the lesser opposition in Cage Rage.
Luis Firmino - 'Buscape' was pegged as the likely toughest match for Takanori Gomi when PRIDE first instated their Lightweight division in late 2004; of course this was prior to them signing the majority of the world's top fighters at 155lbs (Kawajiri, Hansen, Edwards, Thomson...basically everyone but Shaolin at the time!) but even though he lost both of his fights in 2005, they were relatively close decisions to the afore-mentioned Kawajiri and a really outstanding fight with Luiz Azeredo that was an early FOTYC. I expected him to be a staple amongst the top Lightweights in the world for some time, but then....nothing, basically. He fought once more in PRIDE in 2006, went 1-1 in DREAM in 2008 and has only fought twice since.
I'm sure there's tons more I've missed out. Who comes to mind for you lot?
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Before I clicked, I was expecting a name like
Brandon Vera
I would consider Vitor Belfort…even though he’s gone on to have a fine career with plenty of good victories…but from what I understand, people sort of expected this guy to reign at the top…and he’s done no such thing.
"You got Floyd Mayweather making 25 million dollars...he can't stop the double leg." - Nick Diaz
Robbie Lawler, perhaps?
"You got Floyd Mayweather making 25 million dollars...he can't stop the double leg." - Nick Diaz
by Chris Groves on Jan 24, 2012 5:21 PM EST up reply actions
That's like a whole different conversation
Then you’re also talking about the Spencer Fisher’s of the world..
Mike Massenzio's left MCL, ACL and PCL
11/01/1982-01/14/2012
by Charles Awad on Jan 24, 2012 5:23 PM EST up reply actions
Vera's the perfect example
Somebody who has all the skills, gets in relatively young, and just never puts it all together.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Jan 24, 2012 5:26 PM EST up reply actions
Vera's only lost to top guys, though.
While he didn’t live up to his early potential he’s still been at the elite level of MMA now for seven years. I wouldn’t count him as a prospect who didn’t pan out as he’s had a successful UFC career.
I think it depends on the prospect
Vera was a guy who was touted as a potential future champion, not just a successful (and we’ll have to agree to disagree there) UFC journeyman. That’s the standard he has been and should be held to, and he fits my definition of a guy who didn’t pan out. If we’re talking about complete and utter busts, sure, he doesn’t belong in that category.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Jan 24, 2012 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
The problem with Vera isn't his shortcomings
It’s more that the sport itself has evolved around him. When he started in the UFC he was a legitimate top 5 HWY.
Unfortunately the division saw the absorbing of the Pride guys, along with the debuts of the JDS, Cain, Lesnar, Carwin, and Schaub of the world. Those guys were far too powerful or athletic for a small guy like Vera to compete against.
So he goes to 205 and he’s just another number in that class. Always around the top 15-20. Never a guy who is a serious threat to the top level guys like Jones, Davis or Rashad.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
There's something to that
But he could have bulked up to 235 or 240 and not been terribly outsized; he certainly has the frame to comfortably walk around at that weight. Instead he cut to 205, and he still could’ve been a star, but by all accounts he hasn’t pushed himself too hard and he just never put all the pieces together.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Jan 25, 2012 12:33 AM EST up reply actions
Even if he's a 240 lb HWY, Who does he beat in the top 10?
JDS
Overeem
Cain
Lesnar
Carwin
Schaub
Nelson
Nogueira
Browne
Were all not in the UFC when Vera was thought of as a future star. Conversely the guy who did hold the belt back then (Couture) fought Brandon Vera and it was an extremely close fight. A fight that many people feel that Vera won.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
Let's see
If Vera had been the fighter we thought he was, I’d have taken him over Schaub, Nelson, Browne, and possibly Nogueira. Couture and Vera fought at 205, btw.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Jan 25, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
He's still been a solid fighter for almost a decade
The trashing of Vera feels a little bit like people saying that Ken Shamrock always sucked or Tito always sucked.
It’s less about those particular fighters and more about the sport evolving past them.
Ken Shamrock was arguably the best fighter in the world from 1994-1997
Tito Ortiz was arguably the best fighter in the world from 1999-2002
Does their accomplishments become null and void because they couldn’t hang with the best fighters of today?
It’s going to be a valid question for every past generational fighter going forward. And unfortunately it seems that fans have really short memories.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
You're seriously
Putting Vera up there with Tito or Shamrock? That’s patently absurd. Additionally, it’s not like MMA evolved past him stylistically. Brandon Vera was a highly-touted prospect who didn’t pan out for a variety of reasons. Yes, he was unfortunate in that he hit the heavyweight division at precisely the wrong time. That doesn’t mean that he was doomed to failure simply because of the ever-evolving landscape of MMA, though. As I pointed out, he could have bulked up to respond to those changes and remain at heavyweight, but he didn’t; instead, he went to LHW where he never really put it all together and has displayed a pretty subpar work ethic over the years (and that’s according to his teammates).
I’m all for taking large-scale trends into account when evaluating prospects’ successes and failures, but let’s not turn Vera into a victim here. He had options, athletic talent, all the necessary skills, great coaches, and he screwed it up. Taking a gift decision over Eliot Marshall doesn’t make him a solid fighter.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Jan 25, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Obviously Vera doesn't have the generational relevance that a Shamrock or Tito had
My point is more that he looked like a killer when he first came around because the UFC talent pool was SO much shallower. It was much easier to look like the next big thing when you are fighting the Justin Eilers and Mike Whiteheads of the world as opposed to the Jon Jones’ and Fabrico Werdum’s of the world.
In my opinion he beat the guy who held the title back then.
All that said, yes he has seemed to stagnate a bit over the last year. However the guy is 34 and essentially only 2 years younger than Tito Ortiz. So physical decline is to be expected.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
I don't really want to get into this because...
…so many parts of this argument are not worth dipping into, but lets at least get things slightly lined up.
Even for the purposes of the argument you’re trying to make, Shamrock’s and Ortiz’ careers don’t even really compare very easily with each other, and I see virtually no relation between their situations and Vera’s. It’s just a bad juxtaposition to try to make all around.
In my opinion he beat the guy who held the title back then.
I have no idea where you are trying to go with this, but the logic is getting flakier and flakier.
Couture lost the HW title to Lesnar in November of ‘08 and then lost to Nogueira in August of ’09. This means that going into the Vera fight, he was well into his 40’s, on a two fight losing streak and hadn’t won a fight since Gonzaga, over two years before. And the Vera/Couture fight was at LHW. And, even if you think Vera did enough to win the fight, it was a close decision that goes in the books as a decision loss, and neither he nor Couture looked particularly impressive in the fight.
The argument that somehow “The game passed Vera by,” meaning that either the evolution of the sport or the general level of the talent pool just somehow surpassed him mid career, and that’s the reason for his not becoming a two division champion juggernaut, just doesn’t have much evidence behind it at all. You’re welcome to think whatever you like on the matter, but I can think of about 50 other explanations that are far more reasonable.
Let me put this in a different way then
The UFC at the time when Vera came along and looked like the “Next Big Thing” was on par with the depth and overall roster of present day Strikeforce.
Could the Vera of 2006 step into present day Strikeforce and make some waves? I believe that he could and would have.
Could the Vera of 2006 step into the UFC heavyweight shark tank of today and make waves? No in my opinion.
My point is that Vera looked like a world beater because the talent pool was so much weaker 5-8 years ago. A skilled middle of the road fighter (such as Vera) could come in and crush what is borderline UFC material. Which is what he has continued to do throughout his whole career (save for the post injury Mir).
My contention is that the overall talent pool massively improved as opposed to just Brandon Vera flopped.
Though you can make a case that he has regressed a little bit now that he is in his mid 30’s.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
And to go a step further on this
Think of Vera in 2006 as Luke Rockhold right now in Strikeforce.
Sure he looks tough and has bested all comers at that level.
However chances are when he gets into the deeper talent pool of the UFC. He becomes what Vera ultimately became. A top 15ish guy.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
Now you've got a huge logic hole
It goes without saying that the sport has evolved massively over the past 20 years, the talent pool has deepened exponentially, and the average skill level and athleticism of the fighters in that pool is getting higher all the time. This is a young sport, and this trend will continue well into the future.
But you just went off the rails.
If that argument was correct, and the main reason for Vera not meeting lofty expectations, then why would it only apply to Brandon Vera? What you’re saying should then hold true for every hot prospect, and talented young(er) fighter who was operating around 2005-2006. And it should also mean that later in his career, Vera was somehow getting eaten up by some new breed guard of more talented fighters. Vera’s losses are to Tim Sylvia, Fabricio Werdum, Keith Jardine, Randy Couture, and Jon Jones. He was dominated by Thiago Silva, which later became an NC when SIlva pissed hot. The only one of those guys who your argument might apply to is Jones.
Vera didn’t fall short of the unbelievable hype because the game evolved. Vera fell short of the unbelievable hype for a ton of other reasons. These include the fact that the hype was unrealistic to begin with (2 division champion talk), he had some favorable matchmaking early on making a good resume look even better, and Vera doesn’t seem to be able to mentally put together and execute game plans and the attacks he’s physically capable of, when he’s in the ring and in the midst of a fight.
It does apply to tons of other fighters
Joe Stevenson went from challenging for the title to jobless during that same period. Diego Sanchez and Roger Huerta both looked like budding superstars during that same era. Same could be said to a lesser degree with guys like Patrick Cote and Luis Cane.
2005-now has just been a perfect storm of talent under one mostly unified umbrella.
Vera was a legitimate threat to the top dogs of that time. He just was never talented enough to deal with the top dogs of today.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
Joe Stevenson went from challenging for the title to jobless during that same period. Diego Sanchez and Roger Huerta both looked like budding superstars during that same era. Same could be said to a lesser degree with guys like Patrick Cote and Luis Cane.
In all eras, some prospects become stars and some big names have longevity, and others do not. This happens for many reasons, and will continue to happen whether or not the game is evolving.
Brandon Vera did not become a two division champion, and did not meet the high expectations that came with his rise. The sport of MMA is continually evolving. These two statements don’t have anything to do with each other.
There are plenty of guys who have struggled to keep up as the sport moved on. Brandon Vera is not someone I would put in this category.
Vera was a legitimate threat to the top dogs of that time. He just was never talented enough to deal with the top dogs of today.
Other than Jones, what in the world is making you say this. Yet again, take a look at the list of guys who Vera has lost to. In 2006 Tim Sylvia was UFC Heavyweight Champion and Fabricio Werdum was bottom half of the top 10. Keith Jardine was a 5 year vet, and beat Griffin that year. Randy Couture was in the midst of his 3 fight series with Liddell. Thiago Silva was an 8-0 hot prospect in Brazil. The guys Vera lost two WERE the hot prospects of that time.
It was not 100% complete evolution
It was also the fact that all the talent found it’s way to the Zuffa umbrella.
Vera wouldn’t have been a top 5 guy if he’d been in Pride at that time. He wasn’t top 5 once the Pride guys merged into the UFC.
He looked like a killer when the UFC was essentially Strikeforce. He was top 5 when the UFC top 5 consisted of Sylvia, Arlovski, Couture and Gonzaga.
The UFC roster got deeper. All the top talent ended up in the UFC for the most part. And by that happening, Vera settled in as a middling roster guy.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
I'll leave it at this
He looked like a killer when the UFC was essentially Strikeforce. He was top 5 when the UFC top 5 consisted of Sylvia, Arlovski, Couture and Gonzaga.
Two of these guys beat Vera.
The UFC roster got deeper. All the top talent ended up in the UFC for the most part. And by that happening, Vera settled in as a middling roster guy.
Along with the two guys above, Jardine was also in the UFC in ’05 and ranked at LHW by ’06.
Werdum was an quality import from Pride, but he doesn’t really add much to your point. Jones is obviously a highly sophisticated example of the modern wave of athletic fighters, but he’s your only solid example.
Vera’s hype was built on beating some good not great fighters (you’re correct, in a very shallow division) and having a very well rounded game which seemed to have a limitless ceiling. His best win was when he looked fantastic against the 2006 post accident, worst version of Frank Mir. He had a year away from the game, and when he came back against his first top level competition in Tim Sylvia, he came up short. He simply has never been able to put it together in big fights against top level guys, and at times, not even top level guys. This doesn’t have anything to do with the change in the level of competition, as most of his losses are to the same competition that was around in 2006.
Your point that the talent pools are deeper is absolutely correct, is just don’t think Vera’s loses are really an example of this.
Agree to disagree
He lost to Sylvia in a title eliminator and he lost controversial split decisions to Couture and Jardine at 205.
The hype around Vera was that he could challenge for both the 205 and 265 Title at the same time back in 2006.
When those UFC divisions consisted of
Couture
Sylvia
Arlovski
Gonzaga
And
Chuck
Tito
Babalu
Griffin
Vera COULD have possibly pulled off such a feat. Not likely, but not impossible.
His ultimate career destination was not that he fell off skill wise. It wasn’t from injuries or some other self made affliction.
It was mostly from the fact that the talent pools got much deeper.
If Pride was still around and the UFC was still a Strikeforce promotion. Then him losing to Sylvia and being razor thin with Jardine and Couture wouldn’t have been the death knell of his career.
He’s had a solid run in the UFC.
He just looked a lot less special once the Shogun’s and the Nogueira’s and Rampage’s and Silva’s started showing up in the promotion.
To use another analogy.
Lebron James going to Miami and being the #1 option there doesn’t mean that Dwyane Wade sucks and is a failure. It just means that a better guy has come along and moved him down the pecking order.
That is the basic point I am trying to make.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
Or if you prefer this analogy
Vera looked like a potential prom king when Zuffa high had a Senior class with 5 dudes.
However when Pride High up the street closed and those kids joined Zuffa high. Then Vera didn’t look like such a good prom king candidate.
Nothing Vera did changed his standing. The other names on the roster just improved around him at an exponential level.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
I got that
And I’m saying that argument is flawed. There are plenty of guys who rolled with the changing landscape of their division, Frank Mir (whom Vera destroyed, by the way) being the best example.
Looking down the page at your examples of Sanchez and Stevenson, that’s not a valid comparison. Why? Two reasons. First, both of those guys were already long-term veterans when they began to decline; Joe Daddy’s not all that old, but he’s had a ton of fights and has been at it for more than a decade. Vera, on the other hand, should have been entering his prime when he hit the wall. Second, Diego and Joe Daddy have always had gaping holes in their games, while Vera has all the necessary tools.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Jan 25, 2012 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough, agree to disagree
Every guy I mentioned above is younger than Vera. And while Vera didn’t have any massive holes in his game. He also didn’t possess any one standout physical tool or skill set.
None of the UFC guys from that era have really come thru as truly elite. Except for maybe Rashad Evans and maybe Nick Diaz.
The rest of those prospects ended up largely as mid card vets.
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
He only lost to top guys
But his only win of any note is Frank Mir.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
I still think he won that Couture fight rather handily… I don’t really hold being shelacked by Jon Jones against anyone… and there’s obvious flags about the Thiago Silva fight.
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
He arguably should've gotten a draw out of the Eliot Marshall fight
And I think he might have tapped in the 3rd round.
It’s head games with him and now his skills have eroded to the point where Eliot Marshall can knock him down.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
by SSreporters on Jan 24, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
Was coming in here to add Brandon Vera. For sure.
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Still too early to judge on Todd I say
He lost a fight he was easily winning via what basically amounted to a lucky punch, then lost to a guy who might be the best HW on the planet right now. At this moment you could add Duffee for sure, but he could still make a run at the top yet.
I don't think he'll ever make it back to the UFC though
He may develop as a fighter but he’s got a hell of a glass ceiling above him now
Is he even still fighting?
Haven’t heard anything about him since the Overeem fight.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Jan 25, 2012 6:33 AM EST up reply actions
There is no such thing as a lucky punch
"Everyone has a plan until they’ve been hit."
~ Joe Lewis
http://worldisart365.blogspot.com/
Especially not in that fight.
Duffee was being predictable as hell with the same punching combos. He got tired and sloppy, and Russow timed him and knocked his ass out. No luck involved.
"God loves violence... Why else would there be so much of it? It's in us. It's what we are. We wage war, we burn sacrifices, and pillage and plunder and tear at the flesh of our brothers. And why? Because God gave us violence to wage in his honor... There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?"
- Warden of Ashecliffe Hospital
by ElliotMatheny on Jan 26, 2012 3:55 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Wow, I honestly didn't know Levens committed suicide
And that was a week before Justin Eilers (whom I thought you were referring to) was shot to death.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
Mandatory Dave Terrel reference
"God loves violence... Why else would there be so much of it? It's in us. It's what we are. We wage war, we burn sacrifices, and pillage and plunder and tear at the flesh of our brothers. And why? Because God gave us violence to wage in his honor... There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?"
- Warden of Ashecliffe Hospital
Really weird what happened to him.
Was it physical, mental, or both? I’ve always heard a bunch of different answers about his issues.
"The President has been kidnapped by ninjas. Are you a bad enough dude to rescue the President?" -Anonymous
by Forbidden Psychological Technology on Jan 24, 2012 7:32 PM EST up reply actions
A combination, I think.
In honesty, I don’t think Terrell had a champion’s heart. He was very skilled and physically gifted, but I think DT was a guy who loved the highs, but couldn’t handle the lows of fighting. A front runner.
To be fair, I’d heard that he had injuries that made it hard for him to really train well at the end of his career.
"God loves violence... Why else would there be so much of it? It's in us. It's what we are. We wage war, we burn sacrifices, and pillage and plunder and tear at the flesh of our brothers. And why? Because God gave us violence to wage in his honor... There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?"
- Warden of Ashecliffe Hospital
by ElliotMatheny on Jan 24, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions
Losing to Miller isnt bad. Miller is one of the top LWs in the division. NCing against Lentz isnt awful either. And Cerrone is a tough guy to beat.
Wouldnt say he’s on the path to not panning out. He’s had nothing but tough fights.
by Ricardo Arguello on Jan 25, 2012 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Bob Sapp. Ya, I said it.
He beat the shit out of Ernesto Hoost, almost beat Nogueria with only 2 previous MMA fights…and then got his world shattered by Cro Cop.
"If you think, you're late. If you're late, you muscle. If you muscle, you get tired. If you tired, you die. When you die is when you tap..."
-Saulo Ribeiro
Bob Sapp really WAS the beast, back in the day.
Crocop discovered his one true weakness, though- getting hit really fucking hard.
"God loves violence... Why else would there be so much of it? It's in us. It's what we are. We wage war, we burn sacrifices, and pillage and plunder and tear at the flesh of our brothers. And why? Because God gave us violence to wage in his honor... There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?"
- Warden of Ashecliffe Hospital
by ElliotMatheny on Jan 24, 2012 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, the thing is
Bob doesn’t move around too much, and there’s alot of surface area to land a devastating blow on.
"God loves violence... Why else would there be so much of it? It's in us. It's what we are. We wage war, we burn sacrifices, and pillage and plunder and tear at the flesh of our brothers. And why? Because God gave us violence to wage in his honor... There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?"
- Warden of Ashecliffe Hospital
by ElliotMatheny on Jan 25, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Brandon Vera
UNRELATED:
Jim Miller vs. Nate Diaz at UFC on FOX 3 in Jersey
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by halitosis on Jan 24, 2012 11:13 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Zaromskis?
Fuck you, double fingers
- Nick Diaz
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society
- Mark Twain
by TheLastEmpress on Jan 25, 2012 12:35 AM EST reply actions
Zaromskis
was just another Morkevicious: a wild brawler of a kickboxer who people confused being entertaining with being elite.
Follow @DavidCastilloAC
by David Castillo on Jan 25, 2012 1:00 AM EST up reply actions
Well, people always bring up his run in the DREAM tourney
but fail to mention that Marius REALLY didn’t look good in the quarterfinal matchup against Ikemoto. I won’t pretend that I wasn’t impressed by Whitemare’s win over Jason High, but it was pretty obvious that Sakurai’s skills were declining by then.
"God loves violence... Why else would there be so much of it? It's in us. It's what we are. We wage war, we burn sacrifices, and pillage and plunder and tear at the flesh of our brothers. And why? Because God gave us violence to wage in his honor... There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?"
- Warden of Ashecliffe Hospital
by ElliotMatheny on Jan 25, 2012 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Even though he's on
a pretty significant winning streak, Jake Rosholt deserves mentioning, despite not being given a fair shake from Zuffa. He probably didn’t deserve to be cut but then again he’s benefited from the time away. Although to contradict myself yet again, I don’t think he’ll ever pan out.
Not sure of Marcelo Garcia counts, but if there’s overlap with “prospects who just disappeared”, Phillip Miller needs a proper shout out. He did leave the sport undefeated, and with a win over Jake Shields no less.
Follow @DavidCastilloAC
Rosholt
Why aren’t you high on him? He seems to have a ton of potential, and looks perfect on paper, but I’ve never been overly impressed by his actual performances. I can’t really figure him out, so I’m curious as to your reasoning.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Jan 25, 2012 3:25 AM EST up reply actions
Ahh, Phillip Miller.
Yes- he did leave the sport undefeated. But he ducked Phil Baroni like you wouldn’t believe, and didn’t look good in either of his UFC fights.
"God loves violence... Why else would there be so much of it? It's in us. It's what we are. We wage war, we burn sacrifices, and pillage and plunder and tear at the flesh of our brothers. And why? Because God gave us violence to wage in his honor... There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?"
- Warden of Ashecliffe Hospital
by ElliotMatheny on Jan 25, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
What is your idea of a prospect? And not panning out?
Guys like Robbie Lawler and Roger Huerta still fought at a high level despite never living up to people’s expectations. Do they count?
I’m counting guys who like, tore it up on the regional scene; the guys who when you see them fighting scrubs and destroying them you immediately think “that guy is going to be a UFC (or PRIDE a few years back) star some day”. Huerta was like that before he got into the UFC of course (anyone else recall his awesome fight with Matt Wiman?) but he did well there so I wouldn’t really count him. Antonio Silva was another and obviously he’s doing well. Another one I thought of – although I’m sure many would disagree – was Gabe Ruediger, who looked like he was on the fast track to the UFC with his pre-Hermes Franca WEC performances.
Fabricio Camoes probably fits that bill.
He looked like a world beater before his UFC debut. Guys like Jordan Breen were really high on the dude. Granted, he still has a chance to turn it around, and he DID just score his first UFC win.
"God loves violence... Why else would there be so much of it? It's in us. It's what we are. We wage war, we burn sacrifices, and pillage and plunder and tear at the flesh of our brothers. And why? Because God gave us violence to wage in his honor... There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?"
- Warden of Ashecliffe Hospital
by ElliotMatheny on Jan 25, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Andre Gusmao?
highly touted then was introduced to Johnny Bones Jones then lost to K-Sos. Just recently lost to a fellow Jersey boy named Tim Williams. 5-0 to start, 1-3 since.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
Wes 'Soldier' Combs
Guy started out his career 12-0 with 11 first round finishes, got called up to the UFC, and promptly got wrecked by Mike Nickels and Wilson Gouveia.
Speaking of Gouveia, he is also a guy who had a lot of hype behind him and fizzled out.
Soteropolis? Or however it is spelled?
Fuck you, double fingers
- Nick Diaz
Clothes make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society
- Mark Twain
George Sotiropoulos
Is still in the mix, in my opinion. I wouldn’t count him out, though his last two losses really surprised me.
George has beaten some top level competition, and if nothing else, will serve as a gatekeeper to the lightweight division.
I’d expect him to be fighting again real soon, in fact; his last fight was back in July, he should be available for an upcoming card, and I’d even argue it will be on the televised portion of the card.
Sotiropoulos to be fair has the body of a 87 year old man
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
by SSreporters on Jan 25, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions
Barney Miller
Whenever I see George Sotiropoulos, I think of “Fish”, Abe Vigoda, from Barney Miller
by RobtWeaver on Jan 25, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
He looks like
in-shape/out-of shape guys from the 50s. I think family guy did a bit about them.
When you're rich you don't write checks - Randy Moss
by s.r.genovese on Jan 26, 2012 1:12 AM EST up reply actions
It was honesty bullshit.
Okami was healthy and ready to fight at that time. They just gave Leites to Anderson, because people weren’t very impressed with his win over Cote, and Dana + co probably thought that Anderson would make quick work of Thales. I consider it the highest kind of poetic justice that the fight ended up sucking as bad as it did. At least Okami went out with some flare.
"God loves violence... Why else would there be so much of it? It's in us. It's what we are. We wage war, we burn sacrifices, and pillage and plunder and tear at the flesh of our brothers. And why? Because God gave us violence to wage in his honor... There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?"
- Warden of Ashecliffe Hospital
by ElliotMatheny on Jan 25, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
GORAN RELJIC
I win.
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
Daniel James Miller Foundation - Please donate, every penny helps.
Preemptive strike... Ryan Jimmo.
Dude is going to fail hard.
Staff Writer, BloodyElbow.com
Follow @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Decisioning Soko doesn't instill much confidence in his abilities for me
"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."
Daniel James Miller Foundation - Please donate, every penny helps.
by menckenstein on Jan 25, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Worst. Fight. Ever.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Jan 25, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
This, not quite sure he deserved it either.
Dude has been impressively unimpressive.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Jan 25, 2012 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
Rameau Thierry Sokoudjou
Didn’t the UFC sign a lucrative contract with him, thinking he was on an unstoppable tear because he knocked out Ricardo Arona?
He was definitely supposed to be the next big thing, fighting some unknown Machida guy…
Yeah, came out of nowhere, knocked out Rogerio and Arona back to back, then failed in the UFC.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Jan 25, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, good call.
Although Machida was far from unknown (he had just fought Kaz Nakamura on the main card of the infamously knockout- less event UFC 76: Knockout in his preceding fight), they were both mega prospects at the time.
"God loves violence... Why else would there be so much of it? It's in us. It's what we are. We wage war, we burn sacrifices, and pillage and plunder and tear at the flesh of our brothers. And why? Because God gave us violence to wage in his honor... There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?"
- Warden of Ashecliffe Hospital
by ElliotMatheny on Jan 25, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
Zelg Galesic wasn't a total bust...
he did bless us with this: [URL=http://gifsoup.com/view/170609/galesic-v-sakuraba-kneebar.html][IMG]http://gifsoup.com/imager.php?id=170609&t=o[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://gifsoup.com/]GIFSoup[/URL]
"My days they are the highway kind, they only come to leave."
Hermes Franca
Follow me on Twitter or Pat Barry will try to bring back the Dougie! @BVandDietPepsi
by BVandDietPepsi on Jan 25, 2012 10:20 PM EST reply actions
Lee Murray
Maybe the biggest squander of talent of our Era?
" Tell me something Steve, How does a guy from Puerto Rico lose a ball in the Sun? "
Lee Murray squandered talent because of delusions of grandeur. Charles Bennett, Melvin Guillard, Karo Parisyan, and Paulo Filho squandered talent because of laziness, drugs, or disinterest.
Mental illness is one thing, as I’m a longtime sufferer, but that doesn’t account for everything.
Follow me on Twitter or Pat Barry will try to bring back the Dougie! @BVandDietPepsi
by BVandDietPepsi on Jan 26, 2012 1:38 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't go that far.
Lee Murray was talented, but he’s no Michael Bisping.
"God loves violence... Why else would there be so much of it? It's in us. It's what we are. We wage war, we burn sacrifices, and pillage and plunder and tear at the flesh of our brothers. And why? Because God gave us violence to wage in his honor... There's no moral order at all. There's just this: can my violence conquer yours?"
- Warden of Ashecliffe Hospital
by ElliotMatheny on Jan 26, 2012 3:53 AM EST up reply actions
Mac Danzig
After seeing him tear through that season of TUF i thought he’d be a force and he really didnt lol
BJ Penn and Shogun Rua fan for life.
Almost every Gracie ever.
Learn JiuJitsu.
Semper Fi'
My ribs hurt.
For those who fight for it, life has a flavor the sheltered will never know.
by RolloTomasi on Jan 26, 2012 8:20 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Josh Grispi seems well on his way.
BECW season 2 member of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team.
Draft number: 72.
by Sweet Scientist on Jan 26, 2012 8:25 PM EST reply actions

by 






![South Korean prospect Ui Cheol Nam, recently ranked #4 on Bloody Elbow's World MMA Lightweight Scouting Report, will headline Road FC 2: Alive in Seoul on April 16th.
Nam will square off against Kota Okazawa in a rematch of their bout from the first Road FC event last October. Nam knocked out Okazawa in the first round of that bout.
Road FC 2 will feature a host of other South Korean talent, including freestyle wrestler Young Bok Gil in a bout against Atlanta-based fighter Jaral Bowman.
[HT: Nightmare of Battle]](http://cdn0.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/178774/20090722060659_uicheolnam_large_small.jpg)











