Bas Rutten Says Alistair Overeem Has A Glass Jaw, Will Lose To Junior Dos Santos
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 22, 2012 11:05 AM EST
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Bas Rutten knows a little bit about Dutch fighters, so when he talked to Sherdog about Alistair Overeem and his chances in a UFC heavyweight title fight with Junior dos Santos, it was worth listening to. The legendary fighter and broadcaster does not think too highly of Overeem's punch resistance.
From the interview:
"I think Alistair, everything he does is one single shot because he knows he's got that glass jaw as well. He's been knocked out quite a few times in the past, even by Chuck Liddell as well. Every time when he punches, one hand is up. He throws single shots; he doesn't throw combinations. You saw that when he fought [Fabricio] Werdum. Werdum was actually tagging him more than he did to Werdum. I think that Junior dos Santos, with his combinations, his reach, I think he's going to tag him and he's going to throw combos and I think that yeah, he's going to take this fight."
There is other Bas goodness in the interview including talking about Cyborg Santos' positive steroid test and his new TV show.
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Agreed
I think Junior takes this pretty quick. Brocklrsnar was tagging Reem JDS is putting him to sleep
"This mother Fucker next to me is wearing foot warmers? Its like 60 degrees out here." Joe Rogan
by Bobillarious on Jan 22, 2012 11:17 AM EST via Android app reply actions
Brock was tagging Overeem?
What alternate universe are you from?
AO's eye was bleeding at the end of the fight not because of Lenar's punches, but because of AO's inate awesomeness
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by The Lethal Haze on Jan 22, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions
Brock hit him once, I’m not denying that, but to claim he was getting “tagged” is a little ridiculous.
by lolumad on Jan 22, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions 6 recs
He wasn't bleeding because of a punch
Notice that the bleeing started after Brock went for a single and after the clinch Overeem was bleeding. No punches were landed or even thrown at this time.
are you saying there was a clash of heads in the clinch?
cause I didn’t see that either… but I did see Lesnar actually punch Reem in the face earlier in the match…
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
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by The Lethal Haze on Jan 22, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Yep that's what I think
Clash of heads or whatever happened in the clinch. Lesnar may have been punching Overeem, but Alistair wasn’t bleeding after the punches, he was bleeding after the clinched. I watched the fight like 20 times lol
oh shit son!
This just got real.
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by RandyCouture'sDivorceLawyer on Jan 22, 2012 11:18 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Bas is a really knowledgeable dude. I wish we’d see more of it these days, rather than the El Guapo schtick he’s went overboard with.
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Bas also says ankle locks are just a pain move
That gaffe is going to stick with him for the rest of his life.
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by KJ Gould on Jan 22, 2012 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Everything Rutten says about Overeem seems loaded with bias these days.Whether it’s jealousy about not being the only Dutch icon in MMA anymore or simply to do with Overeems management issues, Bas Rutten doesn’t have a balanced opinion on Alistair Overeem.
by sheikybaby on Jan 22, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions 24 recs
I absolutely agree.
Rutten and Overeem are old Golden Glory training partners that go way back. Since Overeem’s split with GG Rutten has been very critical and negative when talking about Overeem.
First Bas said Overeem was the best heavyweight in the world and that nobody would beat him....
But since the split with Golden Glory there is all of a sudden nothing good about Overeem.
This is a very sad case mr. Bas Rutten.
Jealousy is a MF….
It disappoints me when some vocal people in cyberspace hide behind a pseudonym and make malicious and baseless attacks against athletes that have never failed a screen for banned substances. These keyboard toxicologists think that they can merely look at an athlete and "know" that so-and-so is a "juicer." There is a term for that. It's called "delusions of grandeur," and medication may help. (Dr. Johnny Benjamin)
by Sanderman on Jan 22, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 7 recs
I came here to say the same thing
But just rec’ing you and Sheikybaby instead.
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by hardlyworking on Jan 23, 2012 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
Some nice combos, 7,14min
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dYSAwFEEHPs
Bas, eat your heart out!
It disappoints me when some vocal people in cyberspace hide behind a pseudonym and make malicious and baseless attacks against athletes that have never failed a screen for banned substances. These keyboard toxicologists think that they can merely look at an athlete and "know" that so-and-so is a "juicer." There is a term for that. It's called "delusions of grandeur," and medication may help. (Dr. Johnny Benjamin)
Yea, seems odd.
I really like Bas, his opinion is spot on and that is why I agreed with him when he proclaimed Alistair the #1 heavyweight a few months back. I cant think of anything that Alistair has done since then to warrant the negative comments. Perhaps its Alistair’s legal issues, other than winning a big fight its the only thing that has changed. Of course, its totally possible that Bas simply changed his mind. People do that.
true
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Praise be to Allah!
Exactly, he's got some beef with the Reem.
I’m sorry you can’t get through a K1 Grand Prix if your jaw is made of glass. Fighters are going to get his in the face/jaw constantly in that.
by squaresphere on Jan 23, 2012 9:58 AM EST up reply actions
Didn’t he say that about Achilles Lock?
"I'm not the best, but I'm capable of achieving the impossible" - Anderson Silva
by dancingChicken on Jan 22, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
If he did then no gaffe here…(Achilles = Straight Ankle Lock)
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I'd say big gaffe still
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by KJ Gould on Jan 22, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, but you’re pointing out one example/exception and calling it a general rule. Pretty much anything can be dangerous or potentially break something if you’re forcing it the way it isn’t supposed to go.
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
That's the whole point of a submission
You concede defeat before something breaks or you go unconscious. The problem is most people don’t know how to apply certain ones properly or optimally.
Saying any submission that works a joint of the body is just a pain move is dangerous advise to give especially to those just starting out in grappling, and I’ll always have an issue with someone who makes such a stupid statement.
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by KJ Gould on Jan 22, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Well, you’re saying that a submission like an armbar and an achilles lock are the same – they’re not. A fully sunk in armbar will almost always result in something broken or injured (unless somebody is double jointed) whereas a fully sunk in achilles lock will only in a small fraction of the times would result in a break or injury. Wherein lies the key difference.
When you’re grappling everybody is aware of the risks of twisting or contorting the human body into positions it isn’t used to. Just because checking a kick can (and has reasonably often) resulted in a clean broken leg doesn’t mean you advise new students of the bone breaking risks of checking kicks. That’s just puerile.
Anyways, I’m with Bas on this one. You’re entitled to your opinion.
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
Yeah, your example doesn't work
Since there’s a whole, continual process of shin conditioning so that you can check kicks at a much lower risk of the tibia and fibula breaking.
You let a good Catch or Sambo guy get your ankle and try to gut it out, you’re getting it broken. BJJ guys still don’t have all the details down and they’ve really only been heavily using leglocks in competition (nogi) in the last 10-15 years tops.
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Since there’s a whole, continual process of shin conditioning so that you can check kicks at a much lower risk of the tibia and fibula breaking.
And that doesn’t apply to stretching ligaments over time as a BJJ practitioner? I suggest you look up some of Eddie Bravo’s stretch exercises. Besides most of the breaks that happen, happen to kickboxers who have been conditioning their shins for years. Your point is meaningless.
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
I agree with KJ because consider how much the average MMA fighter trains each particular submission move. What if people trained the achilles lock as much as they train RNCs now?
Why fake laugh at jokes in the workplace? Shouldn't we be encouraging people to up their humour game?
Though then people would start training the defense more…
Hmmm.
Why fake laugh at jokes in the workplace? Shouldn't we be encouraging people to up their humour game?
Haha…likely. However leg locks in MMA are probably never going to explode in popularity, bar your Imanaris and Paul Harrises, simply because you have to dedicate all 4 limbs on one of your opponents.
Good examples of the dangers of poorly executed/planned leg locks – Shogun v. Jones and PeeWee Herman v. Jim York.
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
"simply because you have to dedicate all 4 limbs on one of your opponents."
As opposed to an armbar …
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Let’s ignore the fact Shogun used leg locks to sweep for years successfully.
by discoandherpes on Jan 23, 2012 7:08 AM EST up reply actions
Ligaments do not have stretch receptors
Some of Eddie Bravo’s stretching exercises are flat out dangerous. His ‘heelhook’ stretch is one of the most retarded things I’ve ever seen.
Ligaments are made up of two tissue types, yellow and white. Yellow is the one that stretches but returns to it’s original size. It can not be made ‘more’ stretchy. White is for the general stability.
I’m confident I have a better idea of what I’m talking about here.
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I’m confident I have a better idea of what I’m talking about here.
I don’t doubt this for a minute.
Ligaments do not have stretch receptors
And since tendons do and thus can stretch ipso facto ligaments cannot stretch. Your logic is infallible. I think every gymnast alive pretty much invalidates your point of ligaments being unstretchable.
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
What exactly is a “pain move”? Something that can’t injure you, just hurts like hell?
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by Zachary Kater on Jan 22, 2012 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
Yup
You only tap if you’re a pussy, basically, at least according to Bas.
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by wonderfulspam on Jan 22, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
I’m struggling to even think of an MMA technique that would be considered one under that definition. The best I can come up with is when someone’s trying for an RNC but can’t get under the neck so they just twist the head and apply pressure to the jaw.
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by Zachary Kater on Jan 22, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly, a neck crank
That’s considered one of the classic “pain moves.”
by MichaelDavidSmith on Jan 22, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Except it's not a pain move
Not the ones done properly.
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Can opener
I think Ray Sefo tapped to that in an HWGP alternate bout? To Valentijn Overeem, no less.
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by wonderfulspam on Jan 22, 2012 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
I think the most common one is a calf cutter.
I used to tap to compression locks all the time. That stuff feels horrendous.
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by SanFranpsycho on Jan 22, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, cutters/slicers are the only ones that come to mind
Body triangles might count too, but those are more exhaustion than pain.
I wanted so badly to tap to one of those on my first day of BJJ, couldn’t bring myself to do it though.
Calf cutters and Bicep slicers are not pain moves either
You’re playing with fire if you think otherwise.
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I thought they were?
I’ve never been tapped with one, so I honestly wouldn’t know.
by discoandherpes on Jan 22, 2012 4:31 PM EST up reply actions
Imagine you're in a room with a door that opens towards you
And you put a block of wood between the door and the wall as a wedge, and you slam the door towards the wall as hard as possible.
The door is gouged, the wall is gouged, but the hinges are blown apart. That’s your knee or elbow if you don’t tap to a well executed slicer / cutter.
In the case of a slicer like move on the arm, sometimes it’s the forearm that can break, just like this
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by KJ Gould on Jan 22, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
I don't like anyone taking submissions lightly
There’s a lot of myths out there that have the potential to get people seriously hurt. So I’m going to speak up on it, for what it’s worth, to try and prevent that from happening.
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by KJ Gould on Jan 22, 2012 5:37 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
100% right and thank you...
The thought of anyone calling a neck crank a ‘pain move’ scares the shit out of me.
Don't be scared Gomi...
by ThatsHowIRoll on Jan 22, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions
holy crap that video KJ
that was a nasty crack.
yes there are no real pain submissions. Some positions can be painful and yes sometimes guys in your local gym tap to pain, pressure or exhaustion.
But properly executed submissions will either result in damage to a limb or leave a fighter sleeping if they don’t tap.
the “pain submission” myths come from when guys do submissions improperly and they will hurt but guys can maybe gut them out. But a properly done ankle lock will break the ankle.
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KJ – thanks for teaching me about slicers :) This was the first I had heard of the move (I subsequently went and did some research). Almost exactly one week before UFC on FOX with Oliviera’s sweet sub. It was nice to know what that move was even while Rogan was floundering for words!
"If Tyson Griffin was a girl, I would say he has a badonkadonk." -Joe Rogan
My understanding is...
Calf cutters and bicep slicers hyperflex the joints and cause strain on the ligaments on the front of the knees and elbows the same way kneebars and armbars hyperextend those joints to cause ligament damage on the inside of knees/elbows.
Yup...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfSnK2ntnO0
Bicep slicer = snapper
Do not fuck with slicers. “Pain” move is a myth. Everything breaks something or puts you unconscious.
Well yeah
I call them that because the pain threshold is so far away from the damage threshold.
With an armbar, the point that you feel pain is very close to the point that you damage your arm. With the slicers, the point that you feel pain is reached much more quickly than the point that damage can occur.
Speaking of slicers, remember that calf slicer Dos Anjos hit on Tyson Griffin? Man that was beautiful.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2009/4/6/819138/bloody-elbow-judo-chop-rafael-dos
when I comes to Bas
I really value his input on striking, he is one of the really great early strikers, and he learned the ground game to enough of a degree to win in MMA. But when it comes to grappling I take Bas with a grain of salt, because was never really a submission grappler.
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
I take his grappling commentary with a grain of salt too, however
Bas absolutely was a submission grappler. He has more wins by sub then by KO and one of the few fighters in history with a “well-rounded” submission attack. Meaning he’s won fights by nearly everything – guillotines, heel hooks, kneebars, arm bars, triangles, arm-triangles, neck cranks, toe holds etc… He doesn’t always get it right, but he is absolutely well-versed in subs.
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by Genki Sudo's Choreographer on Jan 22, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
getting submissions back in Pancrase
is like guys pilling up submissions in M-1 today, doesn’t really mean that much. Did Bas have a functional ground game? Yes. Do I considered him a great grappler? No.
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Some of his grappling knowledge is spot on
Other areas will leave you scratching your head.
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Probably because they've never worked on him.
I imagine that some Dutch kickboxer training partner tried to ankle lock him in ‘95 and was unsuccessful so ever since he’s had the idea that ankle locks just don’t work.
Bas is a Golden Glory shill
He’s been kissing Overeems ass all along but now that he’s broken ties with the camp all of a sudden he has a glas jaw and will KTFO’ed ?
His analysis now is probably more honest and accurate. But it’s still lame he changes his tune like this now.
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Look at Bas in this film from 2.42
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K2zzEwKnPQ
Hahahaha Bas Bas Bas!!!!!
It disappoints me when some vocal people in cyberspace hide behind a pseudonym and make malicious and baseless attacks against athletes that have never failed a screen for banned substances. These keyboard toxicologists think that they can merely look at an athlete and "know" that so-and-so is a "juicer." There is a term for that. It's called "delusions of grandeur," and medication may help. (Dr. Johnny Benjamin)
Bas really has it out for the Reem
But he has a point. those combinations JDS throws are deadly.
But can JDS survive a clinch warfare?
I am willing to test myself against the toughest fighters in the world, in front of hundreds of thousands or even millions of fans, over and over again. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose, but I always come to fight. I've been doing this for the past fourteen years, and I have at least a few more strong years left in me. What have you done in the past fourteen years other than act like a moron on this forum and hang on Anderson's nuts? - Dan Henderson.
JDS is pretty beast in the clinch as well
by discoandherpes on Jan 22, 2012 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
I’m going to be honest, but I really don’t remember an MMA bout that JDS was in that he showed that he was a beast in the clinch.
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JDS has good clinch work
But nobody, including Anderson, is better in the clinch than Overeem.
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 22, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree
Anderson has done it against a high level opponent in MMA. Overeem has been can crushing for quite a bit, so outside of Werdum and Lesnar, it’s hard to judge where he is at.
by discoandherpes on Jan 22, 2012 1:56 PM EST up reply actions
What he did to Werdum
In the clinch was pretty shocking to me. Werdum generates a great deal of his offense from the Thai clinch, and he had nothing for the Reem there – Alistair tossed him around like a child and generally got the better of those exchanges.
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 22, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
He also got blasted by huge knee
And hit A LOT in that fight.
by discoandherpes on Jan 22, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
Believe me
I’m fully on the “Werdum might have won that fight but for the guard-pulling” train, but aside from that knee and a little dirty boxing Alistair dominated the clinch.
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 22, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Well...either we accept tht Overeem got hit a lot, including a huge knee
Thus, the ‘glass jaw’ argument is non-existant.
OR we look at it the other way…which is, to me, upon replays…that big knee(at least the one I’m thinking of) and a lot of the punches didn’t even hit Reem.
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by Chris Groves on Jan 22, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Overeem did get hit a lot
And still doesn’t have the best chin. Werdum rarely poses a knockout threat with his striking (outside of a knee).
by discoandherpes on Jan 22, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions
Considering Cro Cop’s decline, I don’t see how that really shows that JDS is “beastly” in the clinch. Had he shown some strong clinch skills against opponents who are not noticeably slower and on the decline, then I would agree with you.
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Cro Cop at that point is still better than most of the heavyweight division
by discoandherpes on Jan 23, 2012 7:20 AM EST up reply actions
More examples would definitely strengthen your claim. At best from what I’ve seen, JDS is “good” in the clinch, but just hasn’t really shown to be “beastly” in the clinch. He also has a tendency to fight more at range than in the inside unless he’s using uppercuts.
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Probably not
I think Dos Santos has superior footwork and will be able to stay out of the clinch and hurt AO from distance. Then again I thought Brock and Werdum would beat Reem so what the hell do I know
by cbrody111 on Jan 22, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think Bas is right...
But I wonder how much of that is him being pissed about the Golden Glory thing. Not that long ago Bas was claiming Reem was the #1 heavyweight.
by cbrody111 on Jan 22, 2012 11:21 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
It's entirely about the Golden Glory thing
Prior to the Golden Glory split, Bas would loudly proclaim to all who would listen that Overeem was the best heavyweight in the world. Why didn’t he say anything about Overeem’s glass jaw then?
by MichaelDavidSmith on Jan 22, 2012 11:29 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
How long ago was that?
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
Or the fact that JDS
Has proven he’s better in some peoples opinion.
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
But if Overeem has such a glass jaw
Why didn’t Bas rank JDS ahead of him before Overeem left Golden Glory?
by MichaelDavidSmith on Jan 22, 2012 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Rankings are subject to change
I thought AO was above JDS a year or so ago and now I do not. I think JDS will beat him.
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
This isn't a debate about JDS being better.
Its a debate about Overeem having a “glass jaw”. Rutten has done a 180 on his position, and nothing has happened (e.g. Lesnar KOing Overeem) to justify his complete about-face.
Oh my bad
I understand now. I thought we were talking about who is better. I think JDS will blitz AO but I do not think AO has a glass jaw whatsoever.
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
I'm picking JDS to beat Overeem too
But it’s absurd that Bas Rutten suddenly went from Overeem’s biggest fan to his biggest detractor solely because Overeem left Golden Glory.
by MichaelDavidSmith on Jan 22, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Is his brother still training at GG?
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by Zachary Kater on Jan 22, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
its not absurd, its pretty standard
amongst people who value loyalty over the truth.
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by The Lethal Haze on Jan 22, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Yah I agree with you
I’m sure that there is biased there unlike in my case. I was just pointing out that it’s possible for there to be another reason. Bas is just to translucent on this issue.
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
Has Rutten changed his view?
Has he ever said Reem has a good chin?
Politics is just one big ass blast.
Wow. In 2010 Reem was no.1 HW in Rutten’s rankings (it was laughable back then). I guess the whole GG vs Reem affair changed their relationship.
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by dancingChicken on Jan 22, 2012 11:22 AM EST reply actions
This AO Golden Glory beef is deeeeeeeep
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by The Lethal Haze on Jan 22, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
I read that like Rogan was speaking about a choke.
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by Zachary Kater on Jan 22, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Same
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by T.C. Engel on Jan 22, 2012 12:56 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
If I was a betting man
I would have JDS by KO as well.
by discoandherpes on Jan 22, 2012 11:24 AM EST reply actions
great minds think alike
This is an oule.
by some schmuck in texas on Jan 22, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Knocked out by Chuck Lidell, even!
Bas, exit, stage left!
by Balrog on Jan 22, 2012 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 9 recs
Chuck "Pillow-Fists" Liddell.
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by Zachary Kater on Jan 22, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Every time when he punches, one hand is up.
Wish more fighters had proper technique like Alistair does.
Share for share, share alike, you'll get struck each time I strike.
by gzl5000 on Jan 22, 2012 11:27 AM EST reply actions 10 recs
But it isn't even true.
In his last two fights, which were against grapplers/wrestlers, Overeem has kept his hands very low, presumably to help with takedown defense.
AO having his hands down by his waste reminded me of an old time boxer’s stance… like Jack Johnson. (just talking about AO’s stance from this fight, not AO’s and JJ’s actual styles)
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 22, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's really good.
GO GET SOME, DONALD CERRONAY!! - Greg Jackson
by djganesh on Jan 22, 2012 12:18 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
the documentary was good
But I can’t even express how much better the autobiography was. The footnotes (and there are extensive footnotes on nearly every page) contained some of the most entertaining and illuminating back stories and tangents in the entire book.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 22, 2012 12:29 PM EST up reply actions
Whenever I see any old boxing footage.
I can’t help but wonder what a modern boxer would have done to the sport and where it would be today if the evolution took place so long ago.
GO GET SOME, DONALD CERRONAY!! - Greg Jackson
Any sport
Watching basketball from like the early 80s or before is just a different sport. A fadeaway jumper then is called a wide open look now. A guy like Josh Smith would have dominated in 1980—-6’9 with hops didn’t exist. Baseball the same thing—-pitchers’ stuff sucked and everyone was a skinny slap hitter. Obviously football players have gotten absurdly faster and bigger.
The modern training is so comically better than the crap a lot of people believed even 30 years ago. It’s ridiculous when the old-timers complain about how things are played now, they weren’t even playing the same sport.
Not afraid to nitpick
"/>What a terrible fucking show
I'm gonna give you three seconds; exactly three-fucking-seconds to wipe that stupid looking grin off your face or I will gouge out your eyeballs and skull-fuck you!
I feel like if...
Reem keeps JDS at distance with kicks he stands a strong chance but then I also think JDS can close the distance with combinations…this fight for me is truly a toss up
by Chris WhiteDynamite Bielanski on Jan 22, 2012 11:27 AM EST reply actions
Honestly I think the key to beating jds is to submit em but that’s no easy task considering he has some of the best tdd. Seriously you remember the carwin fight at the end of the third round that choke he got junior in was pretty deep before the bell rung
by youfailme91 on Jan 22, 2012 11:36 AM EST via mobile reply actions
I could be wrong, but I don't think that choke was deep
Sure he was squeezing his neck, but it didn’t look like he had a choke there.
by discoandherpes on Jan 22, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
We should ask Joe.
An annoying Fitch fan.
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by Zachary Kater on Jan 22, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
It's deep
"I'm not the best, but I'm capable of achieving the impossible" - Anderson Silva
by dancingChicken on Jan 22, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Pre roids Dana is good looking
Dana is gonna be like Vince McMahon swole at 60 yr old from roids…
Visit fiveouncesofpain.com
by RECE ROCK on Jan 23, 2012 12:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
If Shane Carwin has a hold of your neck
It doesn’t matter if it is called a choke or “head squashed like a grape”, you’re probably going to tap.
Shane Carwin is a fighter who will go down in history as a “never-was”, and that is a shame, because he really was a beast. In a world without Cain Velasquez and Junior Dos Santos, where Fedor and Alistair stay in another promotion, Carwin would be talked about as top ten, fans eagerly hoping for his return.
Shane could still evolve, still come back and be a gatekeeper for a while, but most of us realize he’s done.
I loved watching Carwin stuff Brock’s takedown in that first round. I could watch that over and over and over again. Nowadays I know that stuffing Brocklesnar is possible for any good HW, but when Carwin fought him, it was believed Brock’s Double Leg was DOOM for any fighter.
Not really
I’m sure JDS has had strong guys trying to choke him before. If he didn’t have a choke and was just squeezing I’m sure JDS could have handled it.
by discoandherpes on Jan 23, 2012 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
Can I ask a favor?
Could someone sketch out or link to an article that describes the Golden Glory issue? I am not familiar with that. It sounds like a business deal gone bad? I just read the comments and was already thinking that for a dutch fighter to publicly blast the only other prominent icon of dutch fighting (at least that I am aware of) but it sounds like they gots beef. Whats up?
I thought Lay N Pray was a stupid insult until I watched Tyrone Woodly fight.
Link post fail
by Pantherhare on Jan 22, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
thanks!
I thought Lay N Pray was a stupid insult until I watched Tyrone Woodly fight.
"Even by Chuck Lidell" lol
Pillowhands Charlie, they call him.
This is an oule.
by some schmuck in texas on Jan 22, 2012 11:42 AM EST reply actions 19 recs
I know him as
Charles McFluffinfists
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
I find the statements of Overeem's glass jaw to be hyperbolic
Yeah, he doesn’t have an iron chin, but it’s not like he’s constantly being wobbled, rocked, stunned and dropped every fight. He’s taken some good hits in his recent years of K1 and kept on trucking.
That’s sort of a moot point when dealing with the totally imba power of JDS’s punches… but well I’m just putting it out there.
4 oz gloves my man.....
Big difference! The shots that Nelson absorbed from JDS…I don’t think Reem can take.
not really
the extra speed afforded by 4 oz. gloves doesn’t offer much advantage over the extra mass of 12 oz. gloves.
The only thing 4 oz. gloves are protecting are the fists of the fighters, and ask Brian Bowles how that works out for him.
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by Zachary Kater on Jan 22, 2012 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Smaller gloves = smaller point of contact
More force in one place → bigger chance of a hit “on the buttton” leading to a knockout.
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by wonderfulspam on Jan 22, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
And striking defense gets more difficult since the gloves can find smaller gaps on the way to the chin.
An annoying Fitch fan.
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by Zachary Kater on Jan 22, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
That too
But the point made was that the extra mass of 12oz gloves = harder hits → more knockouts, which is a fallacy.
BECW Season 2 Captain of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team - 80% more INEPT than all of you, 8 times out of 12
Please visit the Daniel James Miller Foundation and donate.
by wonderfulspam on Jan 22, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
I just wanted to be helpful, dammit!
:)
An annoying Fitch fan.
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by Zachary Kater on Jan 22, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
he didn't make that point at all
Just that there isn’t much of a difference between the two.
There is a tradeoff… you can punch much harder with the 12 oz gloves without fear of breaking your hand than you can in the 4 oz gloves. At the end of the day it has alot more to do with the guy throwing punches than the gear he’s wearing on his hands.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 22, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
He never mentioned anything about hand protection though and nowhere did he imply that….he thinks the trade off of speed for less mass is a wash but that is completely untrue…the density of the material and contact surface are big variables
by Afrotikiman on Jan 22, 2012 12:38 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
The extra mass afforded by the gloves is what protects your hands and allows you to safely punch harder. There is a tradeoff, and the variable that matters most is the guy throwing the punches.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 22, 2012 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve never thought of fighters holding back on striking power to avoid breaking their hands. It would be interesting to have a fighter’s perspective on this. Paging Killa B!
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by Zachary Kater on Jan 22, 2012 12:43 PM EST up reply actions
lol
will do
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 22, 2012 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, but essentially nobody cares in MMA and punch their hardest anyway. It's a totally moot point and kind of silly to argue.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it. ... Always a ninja
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There is no "button"
As far as I understand things (and they make sense to me): The KO is the result of the brain slamming into the side of the skull. A hit on the tip of the jaw affords good leverage to impart the necessary torque on the head, so this is one of many good points of impact, hence the “button”-talk. But a smaller area of impact will only change the concentration of force in that point thereby breaking bones easier for example. But the momentum imparted on the head that leads to a KO doesn’t change much, if at all.
"A belt only covers two inches of your ****and the rest you need to back up on your own." Royce Gracie (allegedly...I just read it somewhere and thought it was cool for my sig!)
by KGNLuc on Jan 22, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah, he's no Dan Henderson
but he took some very solid shots to the temple from Tyron Spong and recovered very quickly. Hardly a glass jaw.
On the other hand, before the shots to the temple, he got rocked by a jab. I think his jaw is fine though.
"I'm not the best, but I'm capable of achieving the impossible" - Anderson Silva
by dancingChicken on Jan 22, 2012 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
I really wouldn't call that a jab
He had his right cocked and it looked like he pushed his whole body into that punch…he almost lept in with it.
He certainly wasn’t jabbing in the traditional sense like what GSP was doing to Koscheck….
"You got Floyd Mayweather making 25 million dollars...he can't stop the double leg." - Nick Diaz
by Chris Groves on Jan 22, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not saying that he tried to score a little point with a jab but rocked Reem instead. Obviously it had mustard behind it, but it still was a jab, not a power punch.
Timing of that punch probably played a bigger role than it’s power, as Reem was going in with his chin in the air.
"I'm not the best, but I'm capable of achieving the impossible" - Anderson Silva
by dancingChicken on Jan 22, 2012 3:49 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I gotcha.
Reem did sort of run/leap right into it, as well…which never helps.
"You got Floyd Mayweather making 25 million dollars...he can't stop the double leg." - Nick Diaz
by Chris Groves on Jan 22, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
I agree with Bas and he's said it before ......
…this isn’t the first time Bas has said this and I agree with him. He is without a doubt gonna get tagged by JDS, so we will see if he’s right. Reem isn’t gonna bully JDS and we all saw Werdum outstrike him…..if you say he didn’t, you are lying to yourself.
JDS by KO.
When did Bas say Overeem had a glass jaw before?
All I ever heard Bas say about Overeem before he left Golden Glory was that he’s the best fighter in the world.
by MichaelDavidSmith on Jan 22, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That was after Overeem left Golden Glory
Before Overeem left Golden Glory, Bas never noticed this alleged glass jaw.
by MichaelDavidSmith on Jan 22, 2012 11:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Why would Reem have the same gameplan against JDS that he did against Werdum?
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by Zachary Kater on Jan 22, 2012 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
This.
Many critics seem to overlook that Overeem uncharacteristically had his hands down during the entire Werdum fight. He clearly was unconcerned about being hit by Werdum – and I think too unconcerned, he almost lost the fight – and was almost entirely focused on stopping takedowns.
I've always wondered about this
I don’t have good access to Overeem’s previous fights, or Werdum’s, for that matter, but watching Werdum repeatedly find Overeem’s face was disheartening…until I noticed it was having no effect. I still thought that was one of the lousiest fights I’ve ever seen and it didn’t really answer the question of which is the better fighter. I couldn’t call the fight for Overeem or Werdum, in my opinion, neither one really fought, just waited for the other one to get frustrated and try to fight their opponent’s fight.
I agree with the statement that you have to beat the champion, not just stay in the ring with him, but Alistair clearly feared Werdum’s ground game too much, and I still haven’t decided if that means Werdum is that good or Alistair is that bad on the ground.
You can’t use Bruce Banner getting beaten up as an example of how you a fight with The Hulk would go.
by M.Sphinx on Jan 22, 2012 12:01 PM EST reply actions 11 recs
HA!
"It's an odd thing, but anyone who disappears is said to be seen in San Francisco.
It must be a delightful city and possess all the attractions of the next world" - Oscar Wylde
by SanFranpsycho on Jan 22, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
I know it's funny to say and all
But do we have any reason to believe that Alistair’s skill set has vastly improved.
by discoandherpes on Jan 22, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
His clinch work, kicks, angles, TDD, and fight IQ are all infinitely better than they were back in 2005.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Jan 22, 2012 1:55 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Or is he just facing less talented fighters at heavyweight?
by discoandherpes on Jan 22, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions
Also a possibility
But I lean toward genuine improvement, especially since for me the Brock fight demonstrated that he’s figuring out how to adapt his kickboxing for MMA better than in the past.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Jan 22, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions
I don't see much in his striking or grappling that has improved
For example, I think if him and Shogun were the same size Shogun would probably beat him up a third time.
by discoandherpes on Jan 22, 2012 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
Grappling
I have no idea. If anything, he’s probably deteriorated. There’s no way you can say his striking hasn’t improved, though, especially in terms of footwork, angles, and selection/volume of his strikes. He’s also much smoother overall. If you look at his old fights, he threw a lot of looping punches, jumping knees, and the occasional kick, and he moved straight in and straight out; he now has a full arsenal, with a much greater emphasis on power punching, selective kicks, and especially the uberknees, all with much better setups and angles.
Proud member of The Voices in Paul Harris' Head, BECW Season 2.
"By doubting we come to inquiry and by inquiry we perceive the truth." -- Abelard
by Patrick Wyman on Jan 22, 2012 2:38 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I disagree
With the exception of his punches. I will give him that, his punching has gotten better. That said, he has always had a good clinch game.
by discoandherpes on Jan 22, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
Hell yes
I think no longer having to cut weight has played a much bigger role in Alistair’s development than people give credit for. Alistair has been able to focus entirely on improving his skill set, and the increased strength gives him confidence in elements of various attacks that I don’t think would be there if he was still fighting at 205.
How much more focus can a fighter place on training purely on technique if they’re not having to devote any time whatsoever to cutting weight?
Maybe someday medical science will prove my whacky theory that fat percentage has something to do with “chin”; I just notice that fighters who make weight a bit easier seem to have harder chins.
I'm a big Bas fan...
but I call shenanigans. If anybody has any doubts about the Reem’s jaw, I urge you to watch his ‘09 K1 GP fight against Badr Hari. If you don’t know much about K1, let me assure you Hari is a striker with huge power. Even though Hari tagged the Reem twice for the victory AO was far from out.
Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)
He also said Cheick Kongo is a very big threat to Overeem.
Taken as a whole (never pointing out AO’s glass jaw before his split with GG, saying he had a glass jaw but then pointing out Werdum landed more, downplaying Chuck’s KO power, etc.) his analysis is clearly not objective.
by Pantherhare on Jan 22, 2012 12:04 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Last I heard he's entitled to an opinion....
….kinda same as you. He said what he thinks and right or wrong…it’s his opinion.
funny how just a few months ago Bas was singing Overems praises and ranking him as his #1 HW in the wold before he had actually done anything
ever since Alistair split with Golden Glory it seems like Bas has it out for him, who knows why really, but Bas clearly has a biased opinion on everything that is related to Oveeem.
by darkotto23 on Jan 22, 2012 12:20 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Agreed, BAS is heavily biased.
For years, Bas was proclaiming Overeem was the #1 HW.
Then Overeem had trouble with his management, Bas dissaproved and was pretty vocal about it (on Twitter and in interviews).
All of a sudden, Overeem wans’t the #1 HW in the world in Bas’ book.
When Overeem was in Bas’ good graces, Bas actually said a couple of times on insideMMA that he liked how the new Reem protected his face well and that it was a great improvement to his game. Now he’s saying he throws single shots, has a glass chin, etc.
My interpretation of all this is similar to that of the biased comments of Frank Mir saying Reem can’t beat Brock or Shane Carwin saying there’s no way the Reem gets past JDS (they both lost to the opponents they were commenting on; “if I couldn’t do it there’s no way this guy is going to do it” or something like that).
by aTn on Jan 22, 2012 12:42 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
I love Bas, but his ever-changing opinion of AO makes this story go in one ear and out the other. Sorry Bas, The Reem isn’t a can… as much as you want us to think so.
by Mr Pickles on Jan 22, 2012 12:47 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Doesn't Reem have a reputation for reduced performance if he get's tagged (Pride era Reem perhaps..but still)
There’s a lot of screaming about bias, what’s wrong with pointing out a weakness, opinion or not, and picking another fighter?
Definitely like jds in this fight but it’s one of the most exciting hw fights in a long long time. Bas has balls dissing the reem like this. And as great as Bas was, If alistar pulls this off and holds k1 UFC strikeforce and dream titles at once you’ve got to say he’d be more of an mma legend than Bas ever was, especially with how difficult it is to be successful in today’s shark tank.
by peet cassidy on Jan 22, 2012 1:32 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Really interesting that Alistair "Glass Jaw" Overeem
was the world’s No. 1 HW on the official Bas Rutten list for an extended period of time…
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
by killphil on Jan 22, 2012 1:40 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Always bet on the guy Bas picks to lose.
He may be an expert fighter/trainer, but as an analyst he blows, and his opinions are usually personal.
Yep, lately, he relies almost completely on his personal feelings and emotions. And to think I used to hold his opinions to such high regard.
"Referees, be sure to step in and stop the fight on time tomorrow, because I might get carried away in the moment and my many punches may end up destroying my opponent." - Tatsuya "CRUSHER" Kawajiri
I don't understand the negative feedback
In my opinion, he is right on the money. And the main reason he references for his opinion (the Werdum fight) occurred after he listed Overeem as his #1. Also, not many people had JDS ahead of Overeem back in 2010. Why should he be held to his opinion from over a year ago? If he is only saying this because he is angry at Overeem for leaving GG, then at least he is backing it up with solid reasoning.
Well Bas is probably right
That Overeem can’t take a punch that well and throws only single bombs because of that. But I don’t agree that Dos Santos will win, because as Bas said Overeem is aware of that and won’t make a boxing match with Dos Santos. He’ll kick him from outside, then clich and uberknee and a punch to end the show.
Its hilarious how blatantly Bas lets personal feelings get in the way of his predictions/comments
When Overeem was with Golden Glory and he and Bas were friends and fellow countrymen then he considered Overeem the best heavyweight in the world. He consistently ranked him at #1.
Now that he’s split with Golden Glory he’s a glass jawed 1 shot striker.
How bout some objectivity, eh Bas?
ONE FC NEVER DIE
by Robust23 on Jan 22, 2012 5:03 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Yeah
He definitely exaggerates, Overeem doesn’t have a glass jaw, but he doesn’t have an iron jaw either. Just average punch resistance I would say, but on the other side superb fighting skills and freak power.
Wow, Bas is still mad about the Golden Glory thing. Its sad to see what a hater he has become.
"Referees, be sure to step in and stop the fight on time tomorrow, because I might get carried away in the moment and my many punches may end up destroying my opponent." - Tatsuya "CRUSHER" Kawajiri
by andrew861 on Jan 22, 2012 6:21 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Interesting perspective Bas!
Sounds a little bit like sour grapes to me though.
by mixedmartialmike on Jan 22, 2012 7:41 PM EST reply actions
Like a BAS!
The chin is a concern.
by dajulzta on Jan 22, 2012 11:16 PM EST via Android app reply actions
I don’t necessarily disagree with what Bas is saying, it’s just that it seems like this is said out of some beef with Overeem. I remember how much he used to praise The Reem, and I feel that if Overeem was still with Golden Glory, Bas would say that Overeem would beat JDS. Now that Overeem’s not with them, Bas just comes off as disingenuous, which hurts the credibility of what he is saying in my opinion.
Check out the C&D Channel on YouTube at: http://www.youtube.com/user/Gobusiness123 for MMA reviews, predictions, analysis, and other MMA related content.
Bias Rutten is not exposed!
Rutten defended his opinion of Alistair Overeem as the best HW back in the day with the simple logic that “this is my show and this is my opinion”. So, even when Reem was with Golden Glory, Bias didn’t necessarily break it down and explain why AO was going to beat any UFC HW. He stated plainly and openly that he liked AO, therefore, AO was #1, that simple.
Bias in Bas Rutten’s analysis is hardly a new thing.
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