Number Crunching, Part 2: The Differences between Weight Classes
This post is the second in a series based on some large-scale number crunching (Part 1 can be found here; sorry about the delay between posts). I've created a database with the top ten fighters in each weight class based on the USA Today/SBNation Consensus Rankings and added the length of their careers, total number of fights, age at the time of their first fight, and how long it took for them to make their first appearance in a major promotion. Part 1 focused on champions and their development as prospects; Part 2 will first examine the differences in prospect development between weight classes, and then move on to look at which weight classes' top 10 lists will be experiencing some turnover in the near future as current stars age and new stars are born.
One trend clearly stands out: the higher the weight class, the faster a prospect makes it to a major promotion. On average, it only takes a heavyweight 1.325 years to make it to the big time and 1.475 years for a light heavyweight, as compared to 3-4 years for all of the other weight classes. Even more striking is the fact that no fighter currently ranked in the top ten at heavyweight and light heavyweight took longer than 3.5 years to make their major promotional debut; in fact, no heavyweight took longer than 2.75 years.Two major factors are at play here. First, big, athletic guys are hard to find, especially when there are so many other potential outlets available for their talents. Second, heavyweight and light heavyweight have historically been the most prestigious and well-compensated weight classes, creating a situation in which promoters and managers are highly incentivized to quickly identify and sign these prospects.
Fighters with the physical dimensions and athleticism to compete at heavyweight and light heavyweight are in fact a serious rarity. We rarely consider this explicitly, but the average American male stands somewhere between 5'9" and 5'10", while the average Brazilian man is between 5'7 and 5'8"; heavyweights average 6'2.5" and light heavyweights average 6'1.5", so you're already drawing from a relatively limited segment of the population. Additionally, large, athletic individuals tend to have more available opportunities within the overall sports market than shorter, smaller individuals. For those of you who train in a combat sport, look around your gym for anecdotal evidence: how many of your fellow students have the frame and musculature to conceivably fight at HW or LHW? At my gym, there's exactly one guy who could be a heavyweight and one who could possibly be a light heavyweight if he started seriously lifting weights. Simply put, these individuals are already a relative rarity within society as a whole, and MMA is far from the only sport offering opportunities to large, athletic men, which further dilutes the potential talent pool. This means fewer prospects overall fighting at the local and regional levels, so the cream rises to the top very quickly.
Moreover, heavyweight and light heavyweight have historically been the prestige classes in MMA. The UFC Light Heavyweight championship has been held by some of the greatest fighters to ever step in a ring or a cage, from Chuck Liddell to Jon Jones, and the Pride Middleweight Grand Prix(s) hosted perhaps the greatest collection of talent ever assembled to that point. Heavyweights capture the imagination of fans like no other weight class: in a sport where fan excitement is often predicated on brutal finishes, no division offers more exciting knockouts than heavyweight. We're collectively fascinated by large, violent men, and the demographics of the sport reflect that interest. Promoters thus have a vested interest in quickly identifying potential stars, which partially explains their fast rise to a major promotion; given the vastly larger payouts for bigger fighters, managers and the fighters themselves also have less incentive to spend longer periods of time in smaller promotions. Incidentally, this explains both why so many heavyweights seem to have substantial holes in their games and their tendency to rely on a single skill set: most simply never had the chance to develop the full range of skills against low-level competition. Although this is less true for light heavyweights, I'd still argue that LHWs tend to have less well-rounded skills than lightweights or welterweights.
Interlude: Brock Lesnar is not exceptional
Since Lesnar's retirement, much has been made of his uniqueness as a fighter who got into MMA very late in life and quickly rose to the sport's highest levels. Without diminishing Lesnar's accomplishments as a fighter, this is simply not the case; his career was necessarily compressed, and he certainly fought an extremely high level of competition, but overall he fits comfortably within the demographic profile of other top heavyweights. He fought Frank Mir in a major promotion about nine months after making his MMA debut; for comparison, Big Nog was fighting in RINGS within three months, Alistair Overeem made it a week after his debut, and Mir himself was in the UFC six months after his first fight. What Brock Lesnar did wasn't easy, but he is far from unique. This is simply how things work for heavyweights: there aren't that many of them, they tend to start fighting much later in life than their compatriots in other weight classes, and fans want to see them. This creates the perfect set of conditions for someone like Lesnar to make his mark very, very quickly.
Predicting the Future: Which weight classes are due for a turnover?
As much as we'd love for our favorite fighters to continue competing forever, fighting takes an extreme toll. Solid research suggests that fighters begin to decline markedly after nine years of competition; can we extrapolate this to weight classes? Well, that's exactly what we're going to try here, suggesting that several weight classes are due for a major infusion of new talent.
1. Light Heavyweight: This is the weight class about which I'm most confident saying that there will be a major shift within the next year and a half. The current top-10 averages a career length of 8.85 years, but this number is heavily skewed downwards by Jon Jones and Phil Davis (3.75 and 3.25 years, respectively). Otherwise, we have Dan Henderson (14.5 years), Rampage (12 years), Shogun (9.25 years), Forrest Griffin (10.25 years), and Lil' Nog (10.5 years). Aside from Jones and Davis, the only fighters who have a few years left are Rashad Evans and Mousasi, though the latter is rapidly approaching the nine year mark himself. We're currently at the tail end of the Golden Age of Light Heavyweights, which had a lot to do with the popularity of Chuck, Tito, and the prestige of the Pride Middleweight Grand Prix; the fighters who made this time great are fading quickly, so we should enjoy it while it lasts. More worryingly, there are precious few really promising prospects currently ascending the ranks.
2. Middleweight: Anderson Silva isn't getting any younger. If you count his two fights in 1997, he's been fighting for more than fourteen years, while Vitor Belfort has been competing consistently for fifteen. Sonnen and Okami, both longtime stalwarts, are approaching the ten-year mark, and the venerable Nate Marquardt has been competing consistently for twelve years. The real problem, however, is the fact that the rest of the top 10 (aside from Rockhold) consists of fighters who may not have been competing for long, but were relatively old when they started: Maia had his first fight at 28, Munoz at 29, and Bisping was 25. I've argued before that truly promising prospects - the guys who have the talent to win and hold a title for a long period - start fighting when they're no older than 22. We may be cut out for a period of mediocrity before a new wave of prospects hits the UFC's middleweight division.
3. Welterweight: I'm least certain about welterweight. On the one hand, the numbers strongly suggest that a turnover is coming soon; on the other hand, the main candidates for a precipitous decline - Shields (12.25), Fitch (9.5), Condit (9.25), Penn (10.75), Diaz (10.25), and GSP (10 years) - have historically, with the exception of Diaz, absorbed very little damage in their fights, which may extend their careers. It will certainly be very instructive: my previous analysis suggests that the future of MMA rests on the shoulders of fighters who begin around age 20, and the current landscape at WW prefigures the state of affairs that I think will eventually overtake all of MMA. It's certainly possible that the 9-year rule applies less strongly to fighters who start young, as all of those mentioned above did. Unlike MW and LHW, however, there are a number of exciting young fighters ascending the ranks, including Jake Ellenberger, Johny Hendricks, Erick Silva, and the Lima brothers if you want to look outside the UFC.
Lightweight, featherweight, and bantamweight are all set for a while, with very few long-time veterans and a ton of fighters just entering their primes. I'm less sure about heavyweight, since the numbers are comparable to the classes due for a turnover, but things are just weird up in the stratosphere.
I hope you all are enjoying reading these pieces as much as I do researching and writing them. Would you prefer if I did another on prospect development, or would you like to see something based on crunching FightMetric in-fight statistics (Strikes/minute, takedowns, takedown defense, etc.)? Comments and criticisms are, as always, welcome.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Nice post.
Welterweight is already experiencing some turnover, with guys like Rory Mac, Ellenberger, Hendricks, and the fall of Hughes, Penn, and possibly GSP. 155 is in that golden place right now with plenty of newcomers and some veterans still in their prime.
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Agreed on 170 and 155. FW and BW are also looking pretty good, but I think there will be some major shake-ups as guys drop down in weight and flyweight starts to establish itself.
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 22, 2012 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
The lighter weight classes will really benefit from increased interest in MMA worldwide
If smaller athletes in Mexico, China and Brazil start to look at MMA as a career choice it could lead to an influx of talent and interest in the lighter divisions.
by MS_Dos_Santos on Jan 22, 2012 10:10 PM EST up reply actions
Good point
I think that’s exactly why the FW and BW divisions are currently so stacked with Brazilian talent.
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 22, 2012 10:15 PM EST up reply actions
I doubt Mexico becomes a country that produces prospects for MMA like it does boxing
Grappling, homophobia, blah blah blah.
by discoandherpes on Jan 23, 2012 6:47 AM EST up reply actions
I think it could happen
But I’m not counting on it in the near future given the relative lack of coaching and lack of exposure for MMA as a whole.
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 23, 2012 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
It does have potential, don't get me wrong
But it is going to take time to get rid of the stigma and give the sport more exposure. I would love to see the smaller Mexican athletes that flock to boxing go into MMA.
by discoandherpes on Jan 23, 2012 11:34 AM EST up reply actions
I've always thought
That it’d be interesting to see what guys with a childhood skill base in boxing could do in MMA, and Mexican athletes would be a good place to look for that. We see plenty of guys who wrestled as kids, but very few who grew up boxing or doing Muay Thai.
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 23, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure they would do well.
A guy like KJ Noons still bobs and weaves and has bad boxing habits. Masvidal almost decapitated him for it.
by discoandherpes on Jan 23, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
True
But I think that’s because Noons just isn’t very good, or at least not as good as he’s been hyped up to be.
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 23, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
He is still a very solid fighter in the best division in MMA
Certainly the best MMA fighter that has crossed over from boxing.
by discoandherpes on Jan 23, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
All true
But we’re not exactly getting the cream of the crop in terms of boxing crossovers, nowhere close to the level of wrestlers or BJJ practitioners. I’d be very interested to see what a highly skilled amateur boxer could do if they got into MMA by the time they were 20 or so.
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 23, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe, but I’m very skeptical about boxers crossing over.
by discoandherpes on Jan 24, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 22, 2012 10:30 PM EST up reply actions
Fantastic piece - well done.
RE “Would you prefer if I did another on prospect development, or would you like to see something based on crunching FightMetric in-fight statistics” – I’d prefer prospect development. I’ve not seen stories like this anywhere, whereas fight stats gets covered elsewhere.
Thanks for the feedback!
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 22, 2012 11:05 PM EST up reply actions
The 9-year thing is really iffy at this point
First of all, the article you linked to doesn’t even define UFC-quality fighter. But more importantly, a lot of these guys lost because the competition got tougher and yesterday’s A fighter became today’s B fighter. I’m willing to bet that the level of competition is also the reason for a big spike in win % in years 3-4, and then a big drop-off in year 5. A lot of guys are still beating on opponents with 18-16 records in their third and fourth year.
To use the stats in that article, you have to assume that the overall quality of skill in the MMA world improves at a steady rate, which it doesn’t. Right now, GSP is still the very peak of MMA skill, and whoever’s in second place isn’t even close. And like you said – at LHW, there aren’t many promising prospects, which means the current top guys should stick around for a while yet.
I'll buy the criticism of the article
But you’ll notice that I didn’t treat it as the Holy Grail, just as a point of reference. I pointed out three weight classes that have a high proportion of guys who have been fighting for a very long time, and suggested that state of affairs can’t last forever. The sky isn’t necessarily falling for the Shoguns and Fitches of the world, but I do think their primes are over.
I think you’re dead on about quality of competition, but how would that play into the nine-year hypothesis? I can see a ghost of an argument there – 9 years is the point where a guy has really established himself as a top-tier fighter and thus begins to face epically tough competition – but it’d be tough to prove. I don’t see these arguments as mutually exclusive.
At LHW, I do think there’ll be some turnover despite the lack of prospects beyond Gustafsson and I guess Bader. But that’s part of the deal at LHW – guys come out of the regional scene very, very quickly. I’m willing to bet that within 18 months, Rampage, Forrest, Lil’ Nog, and probably Hendo are no longer top-10 guys.
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 22, 2012 11:41 PM EST up reply actions
I think you’re dead on about quality of competition, but how would that play into the nine-year hypothesis?
Because after a few years on top, the next generation kicks in, and all of a sudden Mark Coleman is fighting Fedor or Fedor is fighting Bigfoot. These guys don’t lose because they’re old or over the hill (though sometimes they are). Their level of skill just isn’t on par with the new crop of better trained, more professional, more athletic fighters – and it never was.
For example, look at the “golden age” of LHW’s. There’s no way a prime Liddell or a prime Silva with their sloppy striking could hack it in today’s LHW division. Tito, right now, is about as good as he’s ever been. But everyone else got better.
We’ve sort of hit the upper limits of what a fighter can be – for now. It’s hard for me to imagine a more complete fighter than GSP in the next couple years (except maybe Aldo, but he’s not a WW). But yes, it is much easier to imagine a rookie who’ll have the skills to knock off Evans or Henderson in 1-2 years, and it’s easier yet to imagine Hendricks, Pierce, Story, Ellenberger, MacDonald, and Askren supplanting Fitch, Koscheck, Shields, Diaz, Condit, and Kampmann within the next year. Like, completely replacing them. And if that happens, it’ll be because the newer crop of WW’s is just plain better than the previous generation ever was. Not because they’re old or mentally broken or whatever.
These arguments aren't mutually exclusive at all
Physical deterioration, including a loss of explosiveness, goes hand in hand with stylistic deficiencies; you age, you get injured more, you can’t train or fight as often, etc. I don’t think stylistic evolution is necessarily that quick, though. Let’s do a quick comparison of stylistically similar fighters, one prominent today and the other five years ago:
Jake Shields: Matt Hughes
Jon Jones: GSP
Shogun: Wanderlei
The only one there who seems to be a stylistic improvement is Shogun, and even that’s not marked. I think it’s just that fighters really have a relatively short peak (say 3-4 years), and a combination of factors – some playing a greater role in particular cases than in others – eventually makes it impossible for them to compete at the highest level. There really hasn’t been all that much turnover at LHW in the last five years; five or six of the current top 10 would conceivably have been on a list five years ago. There’s been more at WW, but the current top 10 includes a number of very late bloomers (Condit and Diaz especially). I don’t see real stylistic deficiencies among that group.
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 23, 2012 3:14 AM EST up reply actions
Its hard to calculate I'm sure
But what about game-planning?
The longer a fighter fights, in general → the more fights the have → the more video tape exists → the better that fighter can be game-planned
Somebody did an absolutely superb Judo Chop breakdown of Shogun’s half-guard game and what specific tactics JBJ used to shut him down.
Not only is Shogun “old” in the sport, but Greg Jackson and JBJ can sit and watch hours upon hours of fight tapes on him, picking up exactly his tendencies, and how to thwart them.
Where as Shogun, if he even does that kind of thing, can only look at a small handful of fights for JBJ.
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by hardlyworking on Jan 23, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions
Sure, I think that plays into it
But I’d have a hard time identifying a specific point at which there’s enough film to detect significant patterns. Three fights? Five? Ten? I’m not sure.
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 23, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
I agree. I’m not saying they’re mutually exclusive – only that the 9-year figure doesn’t hold much weight.
You can’t compare fighters in a vacuum, though. If you want to evaluate how a division’s changed, you have to compare them based on where they stood in their division – so Shields would be comparable to Trigg/Parisyan/Sanchez, and GSP to… well, GSP. But an inferior GSP.
The LHW comparison is kind of cool. Shogun would be in the same role as Arona – good enough to split wins with the once-invincible Machida (who is analogous to Wanderlei), but falls far short of the best… which would be Shogun himself back then, and Jones now.
Who was it that totally debunked the 9-year thesis?
I can’t remember the specific criticisms other than the small sample and the fact that according the the research, the drop off after 9 years (57%→47%) is roughly equal to the drop off after 4 years (62%→52%).
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by wonderfulspam on Jan 23, 2012 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
I've read the criticisms
And there are solid explanations for the drop-off after four years, most notably level of competition, but nothing that satisfactorily explains the nine-year mark.
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 23, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Still not getting
How the nine year thesis doesn’t hold any weight. We’ve advanced a number of possible explanations, and it seems fairly clear that physical deterioration doesn’t deserve the exclusive weight it’s received, but I’m far from convinced that the observation itself is bunk.
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 23, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
What I’m saying is that for the fighters he evaluated, a decline after 9 years might be correct, but there’s no reason to think it’ll always be this way. In the next few years, I don’t expect the skill level in MMA to increase as much as it did in previous years, so fighter longevity should improve.
Completely agree with that
Better pay and the availability of insurance alone should lead to better longevity. I think it depends on the fighter, too – guys like GSP, Fitch, Shields, and Condit (to a lesser extent) haven’t taken the kind of damage that Chuck or even Randy absorbed over the course of their careers.
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 23, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Correction:
GSP isn’t at the peak of anything, that we know of. He’s in rehab.
I’ll use a classical physics analogy: when a body is in motion, its energy is said to be kinetic and it is expressed in function of its momentum, or speed, whichever you like best); when it is at rest, its energy is said to be potential and it is expressed in terms if its position along with some other stuff that might be acting on it.
GSP ain’t moving, and if he is, he’s doing it very, very slowly compared to everyone else that whatever momentum he builds is negligible at this point. He’s pure potential energy at this point.
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by Unabomberman on Jan 23, 2012 1:32 AM EST up reply actions
Don't try so hard next time.
Congrats on finding the unfunniest way possible (and least apt analogy ever) to smugly express an obvious criticism about someone using an injured athlete as a key example of current dominance.
Sidney Crosby would be impressed.
by YODA YODA on Jan 23, 2012 6:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Thanks!
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 23, 2012 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Just put it all in an Excel spreadsheet
And used it to calculate averages. I haven’t done any advanced statistical analysis or standard deviations or anything like that.
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 23, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
But I should note that the numbers and stats are just a starting point – the importance piece is really the analysis itself.
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by Patrick Wyman on Jan 23, 2012 1:05 PM EST up reply actions
Nice read
My interests lie in prospect development.
Sample size is a little small, but cross discipline training adding to times might be interesting as well (For example if you were a kickboxer first that might add to your fight years, and certainly is interesting on how that effects your mma development)
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