UFC On FX: Guillard Vs. Miller Results And Post-Fight Analysis
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 20, 2012 11:20 PM EST
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Tonight did a good job of reminding that the fighter who evolves his game past his crippling flaws is rare. The two featured bouts for UFC on FX saw men fall into the old traps that have always held their careers back, mainly an inability to deal with the submission attacks of other fighters.
Melvin Guillard actually managed to hurt the iron jawed Jim Miller early in the fight and flurried to try to finish him off. Unfortunately for Melvin, he couldn't put him away and then went to a bad strategy. Guillard was content to rely on flying knee attempts, continually taking his feet off the ground was an invitation to Miller to take advantage and put him on the floor. That turned out to be exactly what happened and once there it was Miller moving to mount and Melvin recklessly trying to explode to his feet and giving up his back, leading to the rear naked choke submission.
He had shown that he was strong enough to muscle out of takedown attempts by Miller, to continually take his base off the ground is just an example of a low fight IQ and is the number one reason he lost this fight.
Guillard is a guy with the power to beat anyone on any given night, but also the flawed game to also be beaten by anyone. Once the fight hits the floor he is just so susceptible to submissions that it feels inevitable that he will tap.
- Luke Thomas tweeted a very accurate point right after the fight: "Everyone saying ' just learn jiu-jitsu, Melvin' just don't seem to realize not everyone can be great or good or even half-good at jiu-jitsu."
- Miller is incredibly tough. The guy was getting blasted clean by arguably the hardest hitting lightweight in the game and recovered with incredible speed to win the fight. He's incredibly underrated and incredibly tough.
- Duane Ludwig has the same problem as Guillard without it being quite as famous. He was picking Neer apart but did his standard thing where suddenly he finds himself in a bad situation and finished. He's as good as anyone at putting together technically solid combinations but he just tends to fall into positions that he can't get out of and it limits how far he can really go.
- Before I go any deeper on the card, the UFC deserves a ton of credit for putting together a card full of very fun fights even if there was very little action with any real top of the division relevance. This was a really fun night of fights.
- I'm still not sold on Mike Easton and tonight makes it hard for me to make up my mind one way or another. I didn't expect Jared Papazian to do much of anything in the fight but he looked very good. Given my questions about Easton coming in I'm forced to wonder if Mike not being as good as advertised is part of why Jared looked good, or if Jared is just better than I thought. Regardless, that was a hell of a fun fight.
- Pat Barry's ground game was good enough to survive when Christian Morecraft put him on the ground a few times. Being able to survive meant he was able to work his way to his feet and eventually find the space to land a bomb and put Morecraft out cold. The ref was slow getting in there at the end and resulted in Morecraft getting crushed by a few unnecessary shots.
- I guess before we get to the undercard it's time to talk about the announcers. I liked Anik for the most part, he had some rough spots but I'm willing to chalk those up to first time doing it live. Florian needs to turn it down a few notches and not go so hyperbolic with his post-fight analysis though. Kenny went to "world class" a bit too often tonight and it was jarring.
More after the jump...
- Jorge Rivera going out on a win was a nice moment. Eric Schafer folded a bit once he got tagged but Rivera getting the win was fun. He's been around for a long time without ever being a true top guy, but always evolving enough to remain relevant. That's more than most fighters will ever be able to say.
- The only fight I didn't enjoy on the show was Kamal Shalorus vs. Habib Nurmagomedov. Kamal looked like he never really recovered after being hurt in the first round and Habib (or Khabib) was rather unimpressive in victory.
- Charlie Brenneman did the Charlie Brenneman thing against Daniel Roberts. He worked takedowns and passes without really coming close to finish but making a clear case that he'd won the fight. I don't know that the UFC is going to be dying to put him on main cards anytime soon, but he'll be a Fuel staple.
- Tom Hayden did well as a guy fighting over his normal weight on late notice but once it turned into a ground fight, Fabricio Camoes was simply better and got the submission.
- Pat Schilling looked like he had no business in the cage with Daniel Pineda. Pineda was trouncing him on the feet, then once it was on the ground it wasn't even close as he got the submission.
- It's a shame that the event takes so long that it's easy to forget Nick Denis' beautiful elbow knockout of Joseph Sandoval. Denis is a lot of fun to watch and has a certain kind of explosiveness that is going to make him a must-see fighter.
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Jared’s good.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
Have you asked the UFC for your poster and a dollar yet?
WHO thought Ludwig vs. Neer would end via submission? Prove that and we’ll send you a poster and a dollar because WOW.
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I did
I picked the other way around tho :)
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by Cory Braiterman on Jan 20, 2012 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
I did too...
check out my fight predictions – http://mixedmartialmike.com/post/16191993030/ufc-on-fx-fight-predictions
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by mixedmartialmike on Jan 20, 2012 11:28 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah they’re dumb. How many of us picked Neer by sub? I did.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
I didn't, but only because I thought Neer would do more stand and bang and have trouble getting Ludwig to the ground
Status: Awesoming
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Dollar and poster please.... Thanks
Don't be scared Gomi...
by ThatsHowIRoll on Jan 21, 2012 3:11 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Not too shaby
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
One of the best parts of the Barry fight..
Was when he saw the opportunity for the guillotine and he just started cheesin and hooked it in.. haha
i'm always amazed when pro fighters show such basic submission ignorance
barry’s not going to finish a standing guillotine WITH THE ARM IN. either switch to a conventional guillotine or use the head control to circle out, but don’t just stand there and let yourself get taken down and put into a bad position.
by Trust Doesn't Rust on Jan 21, 2012 12:24 AM EST up reply actions
KO of the Year Contender?
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Jan 20, 2012 11:24 PM EST reply actions 11 recs
Definitely!
Those were some powerful elbows from “The Ninja of Love”.
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by mixedmartialmike on Jan 20, 2012 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
Contender, yes, but he's still incredibly overshadowed by Barboza's kick
Status: Awesoming
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
Yeah....
But no. Not dissing the KO, but we had our winner last Saturday.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
by SSreporters on Jan 20, 2012 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
No
See and learn the secret death touch!
by Horselover Fat on Jan 21, 2012 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
Fuck yeah
Mike Massenzio's left MCL, ACL and PCL
11/01/1982-01/14/2012
by Charles Awad on Jan 21, 2012 12:46 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Best movie ever.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
Wrong...
…and Prince kicks WAY better
by MostDiabolicalCasanova on Jan 21, 2012 2:36 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Happy to turn this a very appropriate green.
ROARINGA-ELBOWAH will always get rec’d by me.
"Nothin' wrong with an ass whuppin' every now and then. You take away the ass whuppin's and what do you get? You get people wearin' pants below their belly buttons. I'm tellin' you, you go out these days and see the crack of a young lady's butt. It's crazy, man. They should be locked up for indecent exposure. Look here. See? Suspenders! And a belt! I ain't takin' no chances."
Ninja of Love? Yup, Canadian.
"I don't know where this term "training camp" in MMA came from. There's no campground. There's no tents." - Nick Diaz
My twitter: @TB_Money
Brent, this was a world-class post-fight analysis.
K-1 level all the way.
SquishingMachine, now at HeadKickLegend.com
by Rainer Lee on Jan 20, 2012 11:27 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I don’t necessarily agree with Luke Thomas. I think that saying you simply can’t be good at something is a quitters mentality. I think that barring an physical impairment, anyone can be good at anything. Most people who can’t get something down have their own mental blocks that stop them from being great. I firmly believe this is what separates the winners in life to the losers.
by discoandherpes on Jan 20, 2012 11:28 PM EST reply actions
Not having the brain for BJJ is a physical impairment. Some people’s neurons don’t fire the right way for grappling. Just like some people can’t react fast enough to catch a ball or something.
Your brain isn’t a magical box of infinite possibility. It’s just like any other part of your body – incredibly adaptive, but with very real limits. Try telling Forrest Gump he’ll be a NASA scientist if he studies hard enough.
Not a magical box of infinite possibility
But it is extremely powerful. The mind has amazing capabilities and can be manipulated as such. Just the same way you can cure someone with a placebo, your state of mind is your limitation a lot of the time. If someone has the mental fortitude to accomplish something, they can do it. Even if to a small extent.
by discoandherpes on Jan 21, 2012 12:09 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, “a lot of the time.” A lot more often than most people think (and very likely in Guillard’s case – he does have a lot of mental issues). But the idea that anyone can do anything is a lie people tell themselves to make their goals seem more possible.
That mentality is better than than not believing in yourself at all, is it not?
by discoandherpes on Jan 21, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions
yeah good mentality to have but it doesn’t change the reality
by UncleMax on Jan 21, 2012 7:38 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
Reality is based on one's perception
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--
An annoying Fitch fan.
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by Zachary Kater on Jan 21, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Raptor-Jesus
The philosopher! Now that is some deep shit
When you saw only one set of footprints, it was Herb Dean who carried you -- Mike Fagan
by hardlyworking on Jan 21, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
I think that barring an physical impairment, anyone can be good at anything.
Yeah, you’re right. But at the UFC level, being “good” at something means you’re an alsoran unless you keep improving. The people at the top are great, and good loses to great 9/10 times.
And no, not everyone can be great at everything.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 20, 2012 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
i disagree
In Melvin’s case just having good defensive grappling would make him exceptional as a fighter.
He should be drilling from bad positions intraining.
I’m wondering about the blackzillions, 2 of them in a row submitted by rnc
by troyd on Jan 21, 2012 12:34 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
well that's what he said he's gonna do by training with the Blackzillians
We’ll see how that works out for him.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 21, 2012 12:43 AM EST up reply actions
You're an idiot.
You think he doesn’t train defensive grappling? You think he doesn’t do this for hours each and every week? I’m a fighter and I train FUCK LOADS of defensive grapping – more than anything else, and I try harder to get better at it than anything else, and you know what? Jim Miller would fucking choke me unconscious within a minute.
I agree that Guillard does have holes in his game, and that his weakest point is his def grappling, but as Luke Thomas said.. some individuals find it difficult to progress beyond certain (already high) levels in some areas. Guillards def grappling would be more than adequate against nearly every fighter in his weight class on the planet, but there are a few (maybe 5?) who can exploit it and use it to beat him. And its not because ‘he should be drilling from bad positions intraining.’ Don’t be ridiculous. Give him some credit, and, more to the point, give Jim Miller some credit.. for being tough as nails and having sick jiu-jitsu.
by baronex on Jan 21, 2012 9:20 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You're absolutely right
Even if Melvin can never win ADCC gold he can still work to dramtically improve his sub grappling skills. If he made BJJ his focus with a top coach then you wouldn’t see all of these ground errors.
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by Hardy's in your face on Jan 21, 2012 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
This makes little sense. It’s an ideal philosophy but simply not true. And I hope you are not thinking ‘Guillard could be the worlds best jiu-jitsu player if only he tried his hardest and applied himself properly’… because that’s ridiculous. Not that he’s that bad, just that it’s a fallacy. Not sure if you train or not (I’m guessing not) but some of the hardest-working and most dedicated individuals I have ever trained with will not progress beyond certain levels in certain areas, no matter what they do.
I like how you assume I don't train
Well, you’re wrong so suck it.
by discoandherpes on Jan 22, 2012 3:45 AM EST up reply actions
There is a difference between a temprary plateau...
… and a ceiling. Is there room for improvement in Melvo’s game? Yes.
from the recap of the fight thread
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Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Jan 20, 2012 11:31 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Doesnt want to go the the ground
Wut?
Ruining Your Special Night with all caps and the like. Be prepared to be disappointed. But not by us. Because of us.... We're not disappointing, it's the things we say to you, and.... fuck it, everyone else sucks. Mmkay?
by halitosis on Jan 20, 2012 11:34 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
(i didn't make teh pic)
i knows za engrish.
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Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Jan 21, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Doesn't want to go to the ground...
takes to the air
"I can kick you really hard." - Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
by Scurnt on Jan 20, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions 10 recs
I read this as it was meant to be
I was confused by other commenters
I read again
I stupid
Same thing here
"You got Floyd Mayweather making 25 million dollars...he can't stop the double leg." - Nick Diaz
by Chris Groves on Jan 21, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Thoroughly enjoyed tonight's card..
Had a great time watching! Happy that Jorge Rivera got to go out with a victory!
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by mixedmartialmike on Jan 20, 2012 11:33 PM EST reply actions
So what happened to Rogan, because I know I missed something?
P4P(my opinion): Silva, GSP, Aldo, Jones, Cruz
Rogan and Goldberg did Brazil last week and I think it’s Chicago next week so now they have a B team of Jon Anik and Kenny Florini for some of the cards.
by Johnnynumber5 on Jan 20, 2012 11:39 PM EST up reply actions
You were wrong.
Status: Awesoming
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
I don't know
He wasn’t awful, but he made a ton of mistakes and had a lot of weird and awkward phrases at times. None of it was too bad, but some of it just off.
“They both have a seventy inch reach advantage”
Wait what?
by discoandherpes on Jan 21, 2012 1:06 AM EST up reply actions
At least I didnt notice the commentary. Whereas normally I am annoyed as hell at the commentary.
by schm1583 on Jan 21, 2012 1:08 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Preconceived notions...
An annoying Fitch fan.
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Season 2 Captain - Brock Lesnar's Cruelty-Free Pest Control
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by Zachary Kater on Jan 21, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
It was his debut, you can expect some of that
I’m not saying he was perfect, but he didn’t compare Barry to Tyson either
Status: Awesoming
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
i guess i'm just not that annoyed by goldberg
he’s goofy, but he’s also familiar. i can’t tell anik from florian.
I can't tell them apart either
and felt that they missed or made bad calls alot during the fight.
I thought it was only me.. I couldn’t tell their voices apart either, so I can’t really assess their individual performances. Overall I think they did good though, especially for newcomers.
See and learn the secret death touch!
by Horselover Fat on Jan 21, 2012 9:33 AM EST up reply actions
They did miss some stuff
I think Easton took Papazian down into half guard, passed to side, then Papazian regained half guard
They didn’t mention anything
I thought Anik would have been better but at least he has an excuse...
Florian on the other hand… just.. this
Don't be scared Gomi...
by ThatsHowIRoll on Jan 21, 2012 3:16 AM EST up reply actions
i agree with Jon and Kenny being the A team. Mike is making the UFC less enjoyable to watch for me. I Quit watching the Q&A’s because he wont shut up. The FOX deal is paying off big time for me. I pray Mike never gets to be heard on a FOX broadcast.
Too late.
An annoying Fitch fan.
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Season 2 Captain - Brock Lesnar's Cruelty-Free Pest Control
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by Zachary Kater on Jan 21, 2012 10:54 AM EST up reply actions
FX and Fuel cards will be Anik and Florian.
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by Tim Bernier on Jan 21, 2012 12:05 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I believe Anik/Florian are covering the FUEL/FX/FOX (not sure about the last one) shows from now on.
You gotta think Rogan and Goldie are doom the FOX fights
I believe in Chael Sonnen.
by WanderChe on Jan 20, 2012 11:47 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
*doing*
I believe in Chael Sonnen.
by WanderChe on Jan 20, 2012 11:48 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
You were right the first time
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
by SSreporters on Jan 21, 2012 12:20 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Lol
:)
"Anyone who enjoys watching sport on television is an imbecile; a dangle-mouthed, cud-chewing, salivating ding-dong with a brain full of dim piss, blobbing out in front of a box watching a grunting thicko knock a ball round a field while their own sad carcass gently coagulates into a wobbling mass of beer and fat and thick white heart-attack gravy" - Charlie Brooker
by Mattyjudo on Jan 21, 2012 12:27 AM EST via Android app up reply actions
I will also use the Brenneman fight as an example of why knees to the head of a grounded opponent should be legal.
by discoandherpes on Jan 20, 2012 11:38 PM EST reply actions
in modern ufc crucifix position means little damage wise
"I can kick you really hard." - Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
I really think knees to the head of a grounded opponent help wrestlers, and if you pick up one leg on a wrestler to knee they will finish their TD with ease.
Which is a good thing
We can help wrestlers become more exciting fighters.
That said if a wrestler gets lazy or shoots in at the wrong time, he can either get blasted with a knee, or get sprawled on and then blasted by a knee. It’s a rule change that helps grapplers and strikers.
by discoandherpes on Jan 21, 2012 12:58 AM EST up reply actions
I agree that giving wrestlers more options on the ground is a good thing. I will say that if a wrestler shoots and the opponent sprawls, then tries a knee the wrestler will finish the shot the second the opponent picks up the knee.
If the guy is in a front headlock?
Highly unlikely. I’ve never seen it done consistently. Usually the guy eats at least one knee on his way up or on his way to pull guard.
by discoandherpes on Jan 21, 2012 1:08 AM EST up reply actions
Idk, I am an average at best HS wrestler and if you pick up a leg to knee, and only have one point (your other leg) on the ground, it is a really easy take down.
If your opponent is sprawled out and your in a front headlock?
If it was that easy Sakuraba wouldn’t have gotten lit up by Wanderlei in their trilogy with that same tactic. I don’t see how being in that position is beneficial in any way.
by discoandherpes on Jan 21, 2012 1:15 AM EST up reply actions
No biggie
I just assumed that’s what we were talking about because that is what almost every fighter who can knee to the head does when they sprawl.
by discoandherpes on Jan 21, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
what’s that?
See and learn the secret death touch!
by Horselover Fat on Jan 21, 2012 9:35 AM EST up reply actions
Someone doesn't get it...
Ruining Your Special Night with all caps and the like. Be prepared to be disappointed. But not by us. Because of us.... We're not disappointing, it's the things we say to you, and.... fuck it, everyone else sucks. Mmkay?
Guillard is a mental midget
Melvin could have just stayed on his feet and probably won the fight, but he had to get cute and it cost him… again. Miller wasn’t going to be able to take him down without help. The guy is super talented but he just a dummy. There is no other way to say it.
by Pillowhands on Jan 20, 2012 11:39 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
this^
he was able to stuff a few takedowns easy. No way miller was gonna get him down, unless of course he kept throwigna flying knee. I wanna like melvin but he needs to fight smarter & train some sub D for gracies sake!!
by JonBon Joey on Jan 20, 2012 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
Too bad Bisping cheated his way to a win over Rivera. Rivera was winning that fight and as nice as this was, it would have been better to see how far he could have gone.
Rivera was getting beat pretty bad in the bisping fight even before the illegal knee
by 775assassin on Jan 20, 2012 11:50 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I remember it being competetive
until the intentional illegal knee. Could be wrong though.
I think Bisping should have been DQ’d for that shit. Unintentional fouls…? OK, lets see if the fighter can recover or not. Intentional fouls should always lead to DQs.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 20, 2012 11:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
You’re remembering right. It was a very competitive bout until Bisping cheated.
What’s sad is that Rivera dropped Bisping AFTER being rocked by the knee. Not one of Bisping’s better fights. He won, but looked like shit in the process.
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by MicahtheCynic on Jan 21, 2012 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
Rivera never dropped Bisping
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
by SSreporters on Jan 21, 2012 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
I don't remember that fight pretty well
But I think he did.
by discoandherpes on Jan 21, 2012 12:59 AM EST up reply actions
pretty sure he did
in round 2…kinda early
"You got Floyd Mayweather making 25 million dollars...he can't stop the double leg." - Nick Diaz
by Chris Groves on Jan 21, 2012 2:27 AM EST up reply actions
It was nowhere close to competitive.
Rivera was landing one strike every minute and did nothing else for the first round. Really think about that. Set a timer for a minute, slap yourself in the face, then do it again when the timer goes off. This experiment serves the double purpose of showing you how often Rivera did literally anything in the fight as well as you getting slapped for thinking it was competitive.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
uh…no
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 21, 2012 12:01 AM EST up reply actions
It wasn't as bad as people make it,
But Rivera landed some good right hands, and even dropped Bisping after taking that blatant illegal knee.
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I don't know why people are
Complaining about the Charlie Brenneman fight so much. It had a lot of good grappling, tons of scrambles, and unlike Tyrone Woodley, he actually worked passes. This is coming from one of the few people that wish for a swift dethroning of GSP because of his sleep inducing fights.
by juanchoD on Jan 20, 2012 11:44 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I'll give Brennenman the credit he deserves
He isn’t a great offensive fighter, and probably could have just laid in Roberts guard but he tried to pass and work.
by discoandherpes on Jan 20, 2012 11:54 PM EST up reply actions
oh, really,
he passed from half guard into side control and even got into a crucifix position. Never mind that even though he was in control for like 90 per cent of the fight he was the one much closer to get finished twice and saved by the bell. That of course doesn’t count in modern MMA. Fuck subs, fuck trying to finish your opponent. Fuck doing damage. Takedowns and passes, those are the fight winning moves.
Don't Jiu Jitsu tournaments then.
There’s so much more to grappling than just getting submissions. In a grappling tournament, Charlie Brenneman would have also won the fight. No crappy mma judges or anything, but people who actually know grappling. Sometimes, finishes just aren’t possible, and instead of ragging on Charlie for almost getting subbed twice, you need to look at the fact that he survived both times.
are JJ tournaments are broken into 3, 5 minute rounds?
Cause if they’re not, Brenneman would have been subbed if this fight had taken place on the JJ mats.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 21, 2012 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
So Brenneman punching Roberts in the face wasn't trying to finish him?
GTFO.
by discoandherpes on Jan 21, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
lol
no, it was his attempt at maintaining top control while doing the bare minimum to not get stood up.
It looked like that to the ref too, apparently.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 21, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
Herb Dean is known for bad stand ups
Any reasonable person knows you don’t threaten a stand up in side mount.
by discoandherpes on Jan 22, 2012 3:46 AM EST up reply actions
Sure
Every reasonable person shares your view. Everyone who doesn’t is unreasonable. Thanks for pointing that out.
All I can say is I’m glad the reffing climate is evolving away from the archaic notion you just posted. No position on the ground should be a safe haven for stalling.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 22, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
The UFC can F off with this Morecraft/Barry as FOTN bullcrap
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
by SSreporters on Jan 20, 2012 11:51 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
I agree.
I think that Papazian and Easton definitely had the FOTN.
by mixedmartialmike on Jan 20, 2012 11:52 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I just saw that Barry/Morecraft won FOTN, what a robbery to Easton and Papazien, I sure hope they got hooked up in the locker room.
by dpk875 on Jan 20, 2012 11:57 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
No doubt
"Go get yuu some DONNALD CERRONNEEE" ,greg Jackson (not refering to more fans)
by Harley hooper on Jan 21, 2012 12:00 AM EST up reply actions
What those two FOTN?
gotta b fucking kidding me.
Easton-Papazien 6much better choice
"Go get yuu some DONNALD CERRONNEEE" ,greg Jackson (not refering to more fans)
by Harley hooper on Jan 20, 2012 11:55 PM EST up reply actions
FOTN - Barry/Morecraft
KOTN – Denis
SOTN – Miller
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
by SSreporters on Jan 20, 2012 11:56 PM EST up reply actions
Thats a gift to Barry & Morecraft imo.
"Go get yuu some DONNALD CERRONNEEE" ,greg Jackson (not refering to more fans)
by Harley hooper on Jan 20, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions
Fuck that they were 7much better
Status: Awesoming
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
Why? It was probably the most exciting fight IMO
Barry managing to thwart Morecrafts sub attempts and then putting him down with that hook/brutal GnP. Yeah, the Easton/Papazien fight had more action, but it didn’t have me on the edge of my seat the way Barry/Morecraft did. I don’t think the duration or volume of strikes really has any bearing on whether a fight should be FOTN.
Largest pops of the night came out of this fight
If i remember correctly. I think they focus more on that than the actual fight/fighting abilities.
It's the lightweight division
There are so many fresh match ups we don’t really need rematches unless it’s for the strap. Diaz/Miller, Dunham/Miller, and Tavares/Miller are all match ups I’d like to see that can set up another contender.
by discoandherpes on Jan 21, 2012 12:03 AM EST up reply actions
yeah but assuming Miller's injury was real in that fight...
I’d like to see a rematch some time in the future. Maybe have Miller rematch Maynard first.
Just because he was injured doesn't mean the fight would go any differently
Knowing MMA fighters, Bendo probably had some sort of injury going into the fight as well.
by discoandherpes on Jan 21, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah no one is 100% but a kidney infection is pretty bad
its just interesting because I remember Jim Miller was a betting favorite…Bendo is one of my favorite fighters and a rematch in the future would be entertaining..I’m not saying next fight just eventually if they keep winning
Diaz vs. Miller
Would be great. However, if Bendo wins, there’s no way Miller gets a title-shot so soon and if Nate loses to him, they’ve ruined an immediate contender without gaining one. So…maybe if Edgar retains his belt, but I’d have to guess Nate gets someone else. Winner of the Pettis vs. Lauzon fight maybe.
"A belt only covers two inches of your ****and the rest you need to back up on your own." Royce Gracie (allegedly...I just read it somewhere and thought it was cool for my sig!)
After hearing fighters recently talk about undisclosed bonuses..
I am sure Papazian and Easton still made out well for their performances!
by mixedmartialmike on Jan 21, 2012 12:03 AM EST reply actions
I’m sure they’re getting something. I just like to see guys get public recognition for putting on great fights. And Barry/Morecraft wasn’t on the same planet as Easton/Papazian
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jan 21, 2012 12:09 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Absolutely agree.
I truly thought this was going to be a no brainer. I guess not!
by mixedmartialmike on Jan 21, 2012 12:10 AM EST up reply actions
^This
"Go get yuu some DONNALD CERRONNEEE" ,greg Jackson (not refering to more fans)
by Harley hooper on Jan 21, 2012 12:11 AM EST up reply actions
EVERYBODY LOVES HEAVYWEIGHTS
BECW Season 2 Captain of the Intellegent Northern English Picking Team - taking INEPTitude to new levels!
by wonderfulspam on Jan 21, 2012 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
I love me some heavyweights..
but the real show was with Papazian and Easton!
But I know you’re being saracastic :-)
by mixedmartialmike on Jan 21, 2012 12:21 AM EST up reply actions
I missed the Barry fight, but I did not think the Easton fight was that good. I was getting really upset with them “going to war” with arm punches. If either would have used technique they would have got KOs. It was sloppy.
Agree with you
It looked to me like two relatively (relative to the rest of the UFC) underskilled fighters struggling to do SOMEthing, but doing it poorly.
It was like everything you expect out of a Lenard Garcia fight without the BIG WINDMILLS.
Meh.
And seriously, WTF with Easton going from side-mount, against the cage…
Florian: “You know, Easton is a black-belt in Jiu-Jitzu…”
just as Easton firmly plants his right leg into half-guard, and then lets Papazian wall walk up to standing.
When you saw only one set of footprints, it was Herb Dean who carried you -- Mike Fagan
by hardlyworking on Jan 21, 2012 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
I said to myself
Bullshit! on the black-belt thing when I saw that sequence. Until I saw Lloyd Irvin in the cage with him afterwards. Boggling.
When you saw only one set of footprints, it was Herb Dean who carried you -- Mike Fagan
by hardlyworking on Jan 21, 2012 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Its kinda disappointing to hear Glazer and Bonnar
mention Miller’s kidney infection and Bendo loss over and over and over… weak sauce
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 21, 2012 12:09 AM EST reply actions
Fights to make
Miller vs. Dunham or Diaz
Guillard vs. Tavares
Ludwig vs. Hardy
Neer vs. Sobriety Test III
Easton vs. Stone
Papazian vs. Walei Watson
Barry vs. Stipe Whatshisface after the De Fries fight
Morecraft cut
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
Really like...
Your Ludwig vs Hardy proposition. Would be fireworks for sure!
by mixedmartialmike on Jan 21, 2012 12:28 AM EST up reply actions
Guillard Tavares would be a sweet KO.
Trainyard Sleepers: Our Foot Your Ass
by Hardy's in your face on Jan 21, 2012 12:41 AM EST up reply actions
Tavares stand up defense was looking pretty good last fight
Until the last round. I think he survives an early blitz and gets it down in the second for the sub.
But Tavares is not a power puncher
Has zero submissions in his UFC career and it tailor made for Guillard to destroy.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
Doesn't do Tavares much to take that fight
If he wins he beats a guy who is probably going to get bounced from the UFC.
by discoandherpes on Jan 21, 2012 1:09 AM EST up reply actions
Building up Guillard again would be a waste of time.
He’s bound to fuck up somewhere down the line.
"Nothin' wrong with an ass whuppin' every now and then. You take away the ass whuppin's and what do you get? You get people wearin' pants below their belly buttons. I'm tellin' you, you go out these days and see the crack of a young lady's butt. It's crazy, man. They should be locked up for indecent exposure. Look here. See? Suspenders! And a belt! I ain't takin' no chances."
I'd go with Tavares/Ferguson or Tavares/Tibau
and Guillard/Stout
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
Tavares/Tibau would shatter the record for worst fight ever
Tavares/Ferguson is a nice idea.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
Anik & Florian sound like two play-by-play guys
Florian just doesn’t have the cadence of a good color commentator. Even worse is that Anik & Florian’s voices are both in the same sonic range
by Trust Doesn't Rust on Jan 21, 2012 12:28 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
Anik and Florian almost sound alike
Florian isn’t really good. He’s not bad but not good either.
Anik/Couture sounds better to me.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
by SSreporters on Jan 21, 2012 12:30 AM EST up reply actions
Remember when Gonzaga knocked out Cro Cop? Couture sounded like he was being sarcastic when he was genuinely shocked.
Plus he’s an old man. “Get off mah lawn!”
by discoandherpes on Jan 21, 2012 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
Yup. While Joe was losing his shit Couture was mildly surprised.
Mir or Rogan would be fantastic with Anik.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
You have a point about the voices.
I wasn’t sure at certain points during the broadcast whether it was Anik or Florian talking. However, maybe that is just because we aren’t used to them doing the play-by-play yet. I know when I listen to a new talk radio show sometimes I mix voices up initially but then you kind of get a feel for each guy’s style and subtleties.
by mixedmartialmike on Jan 21, 2012 12:31 AM EST up reply actions
That’s one thing I don’t like about Anik.. his voice isn’t very pleasant to listen to for prolonged periods of time, it’s not very smooth and nice. And yes most of the time I didn’t know whether it was him or Florian that talked. Minor problems though, compared to Goldie.
See and learn the secret death touch!
by Horselover Fat on Jan 21, 2012 9:42 AM EST up reply actions
I think we should have Florian/Rogan.
Florian is good at the play by play, and Rogan is good at the color commentary.
The last thing we need is two Bostonians shouting through every fight
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
by SSreporters on Jan 21, 2012 12:39 AM EST up reply actions
two Bostonians shouting is what Anik/Florian already is
I just find it hard to believe that there’s not at least one retired UFC fighter who has a good voice AND can sound like he actually is enjoying the fights he’s watching. maybe randy’s got better things to do or there’s some behind-the-scenes enmity we don’t know about, but there’s gotta be somebody. matt serra?
by Trust Doesn't Rust on Jan 21, 2012 12:50 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I think the color analyst needs to be the smooth voice of Billy Dee Williams
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
by SSreporters on Jan 21, 2012 12:53 AM EST up reply actions
Or the annoying screeches of Keith Florian
Greatest lover ever during the day, Trainyard Sleeper at night.
by IRodC on Jan 21, 2012 12:54 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Maybe I was just tired
But I seriously felt like Florian did not SHUT UP for even one second the entire night. Maybe that’s his job, but in comparison to Rogan/TheGoldster, I very much enjoy the moments of silence during the normal broadcasts
When you saw only one set of footprints, it was Herb Dean who carried you -- Mike Fagan
by hardlyworking on Jan 21, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
florian did dominate the commentary
but i thought he was pretty good
at the first brazil event he sucked
Just a thought
Guillard/Stout
Ruining Your Special Night with all caps and the like. Be prepared to be disappointed. But not by us. Because of us.... We're not disappointing, it's the things we say to you, and.... fuck it, everyone else sucks. Mmkay?
by halitosis on Jan 21, 2012 12:47 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Guillard would do terrible things to Stout
You’re the only BE guy to make it into the top 20 on MMA Playground scoring. Excellent work, dude.
And you’ve ruined my night. :(
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
by SSreporters on Jan 21, 2012 12:48 AM EST up reply actions
Melvin destroys Stout imo.
Better, more powerful stand-up against a guy who doesn’t grapple at the elite level = Melvin wins.
GreenHouse
Fave 3 fighters: BJ Penn, Rashad Evans, Frank Mir
Proudly Supportin the fighters you Love to Hate.
That fight last 45 seconds
and probably ends with a knee to Sam’s gut.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
That is a good fight
They’re both coming off of loses, and Guillard is one fight away from getting cut. Probably be an awesome fight too because Stout has a good chin.
by discoandherpes on Jan 21, 2012 1:02 AM EST up reply actions
Lauzon is top 15 and Miller is top 10
He was also on a 5 fight win streak prior to these last two outings. On top of being an exciting and talented fighter. He would have to give up a very bad fight to get cut.
Status: Awesoming
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
by Chris Hall on Jan 21, 2012 1:03 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I wouldn’t bet on him getting cut, even though he probably should at that point. You lose three in a row with the last one being to Stout (a guy you match up pretty well against), you probably don’t deserve to be in the UFC.
by discoandherpes on Jan 21, 2012 1:11 AM EST up reply actions
Stout has been a UFC mainstay for years in one of the deepest divisions, same as Guillard. Honestly, I wouldn’t be shocked by either decision, but following the streak he was on, I don’t think he’d deserve being cut. I also doubt they put him in a match he’s likely to lose in his next bout.
Status: Awesoming
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
I would think they would put him in an easy win situation, but I feel like they have put so many “UFC leve”l guys after 2 losses in another tough fight.
Maybe Melvin should be sent down to Strikeforce.
I think some time in SF would benefit Melvins career. It is obvious that Melv has the physical ability to win, but his in cage decisions are killing him. Since Gil is staying put in SF, throw Melv in the mix. Plus, SF gets some name recognition and Gil gets to fight better talent. It would help Gil, Melv, SF and Zuffa. Imo
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
by whardiek on Jan 21, 2012 6:01 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I would love to see them throw Melvin right in with Gil...
…or give him one in Strikeforce then if he gets the win, Gil, but that won’t likely happen.
Oh no you didn't.--Nick Ring
by NickRingp4pGOAT on Jan 23, 2012 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Anyone else think there's no coincidence
That notorious dick-kickers Cerrone and Shalorus end up losing their most recent fights (Kamal for two straight) having not gotten their dick-kick in?
At least Cerrone had a good run going. Shalorus has no business being in the UFC.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
by SSreporters on Jan 21, 2012 1:49 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
No love for Shalorus?
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 21, 2012 2:03 AM EST up reply actions
No. Boo this man for having love for Shalorus
Status: Awesoming
I don't know more about MMA than you, I just act like it at HeadKickLegend
lol
I watched too many of his WEC fights. I got nothing but love for Kamal.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 21, 2012 2:10 AM EST up reply actions
A majority of his time in the WEC was fucking terrible.
Seriously awful fights.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jan 21, 2012 2:37 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I saw one fight where he KO'd some fool in the opening frame
and his draw with Varner. Fan for life off of those two fights alone… I guess that’s two too many.
Got someone who didn’t watch MMA before interested in it off the Varner fight to boot.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 21, 2012 2:45 AM EST up reply actions
oh yeah
and a fight where Kamal gassed and kinda LnP’d his way to a victory. He profusely apologized in post fight win speech for fighting like that… further endearing him to me.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on Jan 21, 2012 3:13 AM EST up reply actions
????
It irks me anytime someone with the skill and gumption to enter a cage and fight at that level is called “fucking terrible,” let alone an olympic caliber wrestler and granite-domed Iranian leprechaun like Shalorus. The guy doesn’t always fight to his strengths, but he is no slouch, and Habib should get respect for finishing him in his first big-league fight. I found the fight incredibly entertaining.
by Charlie Custer on Jan 21, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions
This^
Even with that crazy sloppy punching that was an entertaining scrap and the fact that Kamal had no idea what was going on after that first knockdown, but still hung in there showed the heart he has. I hate leprechauns, but those psycho midgets threw down.
Oh no you didn't.--Nick Ring
by NickRingp4pGOAT on Jan 23, 2012 4:30 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed man
A fighter is a fool not to take advantage of the one dick kick every other round rule. Especially if they are getting the better of you or you are gassing out. Getting one in early in the fight can set the tempo too. Its all part of the game, nasty and bullshit as it may be.
Who else was impressed with the broadcast on FX?
FOX Sports mics, intelligent pbp and analysis, fights were paced well, and no stupid plugs for terrible programming. Everything about the show felt professional and better than the Spike and PPV cards.
I’m loving this deal already. Good riddance, Spike. TAPE DELAYS BEGONE, BITCHES!
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
It was great. It looked like a sporting event as opposed to typical Spike manly man shit.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
Intro's still terrible.
I was hoping we wouldn’t have to face the pain anymore.
50% more Ultimate than the leading competitor.
by Dodectagon on Jan 21, 2012 2:18 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
I thought that as well.
Even last week for the prelims on FX. I’m sure it was nice for Mike Goldberg that he didn’t have to interrupt every fight to shill a new episode of Blue Mountain State.
I like they just a little reminder in the lower right corner and let the commentators commentate.
by Steve W on Jan 21, 2012 10:48 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Its true, and...
IN
TO
PIECES!!!!!!!!!!!
I’ll admit, I had a big big smile on my face when that started playing
When you saw only one set of footprints, it was Herb Dean who carried you -- Mike Fagan
by hardlyworking on Jan 21, 2012 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
Entertaining fights and the FX presentation was really smooth.
Jim Miller’s in an awkward position to me with losses to the top of the division, but the skills to knock everybody else out of the mix. I’m not sure how the UFC will handle him. Maybe a fight against the Petits/Lauzon winner or Nate Diaz?
In other sporting news, the Clippers/Timberwolves had a fantastic game.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
Timberwolves are doing well, right?
I have lost interest in the NBA. No coincidence the entertainment declined when the NBA on NBC theme song went away.
Miss the Lakers/Kings rivalry and Bill Walton’s inane comments.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
Funnily enough I'm coo-coo for college basketball
Because the atmosphere is just better, even though the quality of play usually isn’t that good.
Read my tweets or whatever - @SSReporters
The quality kills me. It's the main reason why I can't get into the WNBA
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
March Madness is great.
Oh no you didn't.--Nick Ring
by NickRingp4pGOAT on Jan 23, 2012 4:35 PM EST up reply actions
7-8, Rubio looks great, Kevin Love is only in his fourth year, and the Twolves
are probably the most fun team to watch in basketball. I miss the NBA on NBC theme too. I mean Rob Thomas? Seriously ABC? Barkley and Van Gundy are pretty fun on commentary and I grew up on Lakers/Kings.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
Nutty fourth quarter. I’ll never understand how a guy can go 0 for 10 and still find the confidence to take a three-pointer to tie it up like that with no hesitation, let alone the ability to actually sink it.
50% more Ultimate than the leading competitor.
by Dodectagon on Jan 21, 2012 2:24 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
Shooters keep shooting,
even though Rubio isn’t much of a shooter. And his little jump after missing the second free throw was hilarious.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
Lakers/Kings were some the best basketball memories I have
Amazing teams who seriously hated each other.
In one game, Rick Fox was ejected and waited for Doug Christie by the Kings locker room.
Christie’s wife actually attacked Fox with her purse on national TV.
"I'm ready for fight. If I'm win, no win. I don't know. But, I'm ready for fight. This is my working[shrugs shoulders]" - Anderson Silva
"You'll get Lil Wayne in woman pants and like it!" - Krimson
High level basketball, dramatic games, and a legitimate rivalry
that puts artificial feuds like Diaz/Cerrone to shame.
Together we are Ruining Your Special Night. Twice.
Guillard needs to see the Wizard
The woderful Wizard of Oz.
by Huggy Bear on Jan 21, 2012 1:54 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
This was a fantastic first card for FX
"You got Floyd Mayweather making 25 million dollars...he can't stop the double leg." - Nick Diaz
I was actually impressed with Nurmagomedov
you have a 23 yo guy from Dagestan,
who just came to the US and it’s his first fight in the cage and straight against a beast like Shalorous,
and he did what Jamie Varner couldn’t do, which is to finish him.
Sure his striking looks awkward, but it worked for him against heavy handed Shalorous and he completely outwrestled the Iranian fighter. How is that not impressive?
BTW that is what you use wrestling for. To mount and finish guys and not LnP a la Brenneman, whose only skill it seems is to get takedowns and lay on the guy glued to him for the rest of the fight.
I picked him to win via sub, but in rd 2. When he pulled it off, I went ape shit in my living room.
My wife: did you bet real money on this?
Me: PG money, but IT’S STILL REAL TO ME, DAMMIT!
Habib’s chin seeded exposed I the stand up, and early on I feared he’d get slept, but then he connected and it all changed.
Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac?
George Carlin
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K1 Level Predictions Team 2011 BE Cilvil War Champions!
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I also was impressed with Khabib
Kamal is a tough dude and Khabib, a 23-year-old who had never fought in a cage before, really took it to him. I like Khabib’s potential a lot and I thought it was great matchmaking to give him someone on Kamal’s level to prove himself in his UFC debut.
by MichaelDavidSmith on Jan 21, 2012 11:19 AM EST up reply actions
He looked very good grappling
But his striking will need to get better, his distance was really bad, missing by a lot.
Greatest lover ever during the day, Trainyard Sleeper at night.
have to agree
I was very impressed with (K)Habib.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on Jan 21, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
I thought Nurmagomedov looked great. He had none of the gassing or other jitters of UFC newcomers and he got the finish. He looked very composed and his wrestling and ground game were outstanding. It is easy to say Shalorus has slowed down but nobody picked Khabib in the Staff Predictions and 4 predicted he’s lose by TKO
Proud veteran of the elite unstoppable predictions juggernaut known as the K1 Level Predictions Team (2011-2011)
by StevenGiles on Jan 21, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Jon Anik >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Goldie.
Florian <<<<<<<<< Rogan.
What I hated most of the Anik/Florian duo is that they sound way too alike and I was having a hard time figuring who way talking.
With that said, I hope Goldberg decides to leave the UFC and they pair up Anik with Rogan. That’d be the best pairing in the business.
Why would Goldie ever leave the UFC?
That is the best gig he will ever get. They’ll have to drag his dead body out of the booth unless he’s an idiot or rich enough to retire.
"A belt only covers two inches of your ****and the rest you need to back up on your own." Royce Gracie (allegedly...I just read it somewhere and thought it was cool for my sig!)
reading backwards after I left my comment below I agree with you. There wasn’t enough distinction in the their voices, which is strange because I’ve always thought of anik having a very distinct voice
http://brightlightssports.com Follow @chrissarda
I honestly thought it WAS just florian in the booth
Great card overall. Hope to see more and more quality fighters hit these smaller shows. Or make it a prospect heavy type of show. Only need 1 washed up/no longer relevant fighter match on the main card, the rest should be showcases for the youngins and contenders.
Easton was waaaaaay to hyped up, I thought he was gonna say this before the fight
Greatest lover ever during the day, Trainyard Sleeper at night.
My only problem with anik and florian is that during the show their voices were too close to the same.. They do have a better knowledge base as a duo than Goldberg and Rogan though
http://brightlightssports.com Follow @chrissarda
When Melvins collide
Guillard Vs. Manhoef, book it.
"My days they are the highway kind, they only come to leave."
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