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Brock Lesnar: Devastated By Illness At UFC 141

Brock Lesnar Retires: Photo by Esther Lin for MMA Fighting.

The Brock Lesnar fans saw at UFC 141 was a greatly diminished athlete according to MMA and pro wrestling business guru Dave Meltzer. Meltzer spoke to MMA Nation's Luke Thomas about Lesnar, his legacy and physical condition coming into his fight with Alistair Overeem:

I think that Brock saw that athletically, he wasn't what he once was and that's all he had going for him. He was a very good athlete who's athletic ability transferred very well to fighting. He was not a great all-around fighter and he was too old to become that. If he was 27 and he goes, "I can shore up these weaknesses," he's 34 and got a lot of mileage. Those four years of pro wrestling took a lot out of his body. There's injuries everywhere and I think that illness devastated him and I think you could see the difference.

I don't think Brock's nearly as quick as he was a couple years ago and that's the difference. I'm sure he can lift the same weights, he's huge but he was never that great all-around fighter. When you lose that speed, there are exceptions but you don't see a lot of freestyle wrestlers in the heavyweight division at 34 competing for Olympic gold. Karelin was done at 32, he was a Greco guy but he was done at 32 so he was even younger than Brock and Kerelin was the biggest physical freak of all physical freaks. Far more than Brock ever was. That's kind of like your prototype. Guys like that, when their bodies break down and they lose that thing, they're done at that level and like most of them, I think that when both of them in their minds thought they were done, they got out.

Fans who are quick to write off Lesnar as a non-talent in MMA are deeply ignorant of the realities of injury, illness and aging on an athlete in his mid-30's. The sad reality is we'll never know what a healthy Lesnar may have accomplished in MMA. I invite all the fans who are calling him 'exposed' 'bully' and 'front-runner' to have a foot of their large intestine removed and then get in the cage with Cain Velasquez and Alistair Overeem.

Meltzer elaborates on Lesnar's legacy and what might have been:

I think he probably could have been the greatest heavyweight we've ever seen because he did have those athletic gifts and he would have been, at 22, I don't think physically just looking at him he would have been a great striker, but he had such power that I think he could have been a knockout guy and a decent enough striker to set up his wrestling and he'd have been the best wrestler if he'd kept his wrestling up.

You've got to remember, he took eight years off wrestling and then he came back in the sport. You don't see a lot of guys take eight years off wrestling and come back and be what they once were as wrestlers so that Brock Lesnar, yeah, I think he could have been an all-time great. This one coming in at that age, he had a lot going against him but if he didn't have the diverticulitis and he would have been in camp year-round and he would have been learning the submissions because he probably could have been pretty good at the submission game because that comes from wrestling and I think he probably would have done pretty well with that because he is a great student and he's not a stranger to training hard. Striking, he probably never would have been great at, but I think he would have been a lot better.

What was gonna hurt him was when the speed was gone because the speed made him more than the power. Power's great, it is, but this is a speed sport. You look at all of these guys, when they lose a bit of that speed, that's when they fall from the top. It's not when they lose the power. At some point, a guy of his size, 35-36, it still would be tough I would think. I think the diverticulitis, it had to take a lot out of him.

Read the complete transcript of part 1 of Luke's interview with Meltzer at MMA Nation.

SBN coverage of UFC 141: Lesnar vs. Overeem

Comment 113 comments  |  1 recs  | 

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Fans who are quick to write off Lesnar as a ‘flash-in-the-pan’ in MMA are deeply ignorant of the realities of injury, illness and aging on an athlete in his mid-30’s.

that’s what he is though

it may have been inevitable but he he had a big break and turned shit upside down and then fizzled

whether or not people feel its a personal issue with him is irrelevant

by Cunny on Jan 2, 2012 1:31 PM EST reply actions  

Yep. That Meltzer feels like coupling the term 'flash-in-the-pan' with a negative intention is beyond me.

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by Unabomberman on Jan 2, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Meltzer didn’t say flash in the pan. Kid Nate did

ONE FC NEVER DIE

by Robust23 on Jan 2, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that's Nate's writing, not Patty Meltzer (TEEHEE).

But yeah, he came, he saw, he conquered, he got conquered.

"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."

by menckenstein on Jan 2, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions  

WAT?

Reads back

Uh…

shakes head.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

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Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Jan 2, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Did my intellegence fool you?

I’m pretty witty, like Ken Shamrock.

"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."

by menckenstein on Jan 2, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

You keep quiet...

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

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by Unabomberman on Jan 2, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

guys, please!

let’s unite here and just blame Kid Nate.

now, doesn’t that feel better?

"Men like us... we never get back the things we love."
- Jaron Namir

by Victor Rodriguez on Jan 2, 2012 4:18 PM EST up reply actions  

good feedback/nit picking

I tweaked it.
What I’m trying to get across is that you can’t evaluate Lesnar as an athlete or a fighter based on his post-illness performances.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jan 2, 2012 1:35 PM EST up reply actions  

makes less sense to evaluate him based on potential when his career is over

ONE FC NEVER DIE

by Robust23 on Jan 2, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

No better time for the a retrospective with a little speculation on a career than when someone retires

What-if is warranted in these types of situations. Some of the best stuff I ever read came after Bo Jackson got his hips pulled off.

"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."

by menckenstein on Jan 2, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

but you can’t call that his LEGACY. Legacy is based on what happened not what could have been. There’s no problem in discussing his potential. But his legacy is what it is

ONE FC NEVER DIE

by Robust23 on Jan 2, 2012 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Legacy is what one person gives or gifts to another. Brocks fights will not be his legacy but his presence in this sport and how he helped it grow will be.

"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright

by F'n Clownshoes on Jan 2, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m saying even if he had great potential his legacy will then be NOT being able to reach it. As far as his impact on the sport yeah that’ll be part of his legacy but it’ll be based on what he did not could have done

ONE FC NEVER DIE

by Robust23 on Jan 2, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

i agree that what ifs are not a great criteria for legacies.

"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright

by F'n Clownshoes on Jan 2, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Bo Jackson

Bo Jackson + Tecmo Bowl= GOD!

by Mr. Socko on Jan 2, 2012 2:20 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Bo Jackson + ProStars = SELLOUT / UNINTENTIONAL HILARITY

"Men like us... we never get back the things we love."
- Jaron Namir

by Victor Rodriguez on Jan 2, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I wish I could rec this but I'm on the app

I can't figure out how to add the twiiter follow button so here's a link -____-

by Papercut Elbow on Jan 2, 2012 7:20 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Thank you

Police have mounted a Phuket-wide hunt

by warren305 on Jan 2, 2012 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Going to nitpick....

He didn’t join the NFL because the Viking wanted him to play a year or two in the European Football League, the Vienna Vikings if I remember correctly, before moving him up to the regular squad. He didn’t want to leave the USA, so he declined.

To put this is perspective, he had not played football since the middle of high school.

Tremendous athlete.

by prophet665 on Jan 3, 2012 2:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Fans who are quick to write off Lesnar as a ‘flash-in-the-pan’ in MMA are deeply ignorant of the realities of injury, illness and aging on an athlete in his mid-30’s

Isn’t that the definition of flash in the pan? He came and was then gone…..how are they ignorant to the realities of injury, illness and aging? Why does any of that matter? Whatever the reason he had a very short 8 fight career in which he came in got a championship then got smashed into retirement. You don’t measure a career based on what could have been you base it on what happened

ONE FC NEVER DIE

by Robust23 on Jan 2, 2012 1:33 PM EST reply actions   2 recs

This!!!!

I mean by definition, he’s exactly that, a flash in the pan, nothing else. Whatever the reason behind his short career, it was still short and sandwiched in there is a title run. I mean let’s face it, if Brock would’ve been forced to wait in line behind Big Nog and Mir for a title shot, he very well may have never held the UFC HW title, making him essentially Bobby Lashleys version 1.0, nothing else, not even a flash in the pan. Crazy when you think about it, he owes an eternal debt to ZUFFA.

by Cestus84 on Jan 2, 2012 1:51 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Lesnar does come across as a bully in MMA

I mean, Bullies usually think they’re tough and like to beat people up, but they usually fold when someone pushes back.

by discoandherpes on Jan 2, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not sure it is safe to say that.

He lived the lifestyle of an MMA fighter, and even when things got as extreme as they could posisbly get he still hung in there.

Winning and owning anyne and everyone? Check.
Getting his stomach destroyed by Diverticulitis? Check.
Returning and getting consistently destroyed but still managing to hold on to the title? Check.
Getting consistently destroyed and losing the title? Check.
Getting Diverticulitis again? Check.
Getting Uberkneed? Double Check.

Brock didn’t wilt to the pressure of the MMA lifestyle. He wilted to knowing he can’t compete anyomre to teh level that he used to b/c of reasons that were out of his control, and there is no shame in that.

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by Unabomberman on Jan 2, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Even without his disease, he wasn’t going to be Heavyweight champion for long.

by discoandherpes on Jan 2, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

This.

He, technically, defended his belt twice. People like Rashad, Shogun, or Lyoto at lhw couldn’t defend it more than once.

It is pretty low to criticize his will to fight especially considering how he kept on fighting long past the time it seemed sensible but to the more hardcore of fanboys.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Jan 2, 2012 2:31 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

LHW is a vastly deeper division than HW.

by discoandherpes on Jan 2, 2012 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

FEDOR

SEE and LEARN the SECRET DEATH TOUCH

by Horselover Fat on Jan 2, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

FEDOR!

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

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Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Jan 2, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions  

FEDOR.mpeg

Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!

by SentientAndroid on Jan 3, 2012 9:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Brock Lesnar is interesting because he is better than the older incarnation of the UFC Heavyweight division but not better than the newer incarnation when regarding top heavyweights.

by discoandherpes on Jan 2, 2012 3:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Fedor

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by Papercut Elbow on Jan 2, 2012 7:22 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

I don't think its fair

To completely credit Brock’s losses and wilting to the illness. I don’t think the illness had anything to do with him crumbling when he got hit in the face. It didnt have anything to do with him quitting WWE, it didnt have anything to do with him quitting football.

He just quits everything when things get rough, even fights. He’s been babied and treated like a god, and paid like one too, everywhere he’s gone. And then quit on them. I don’t understand how so many people can keep loving this guy. I used to, but the man has no heart.

Police have mounted a Phuket-wide hunt

by warren305 on Jan 2, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

This

Police have mounted a Phuket-wide hunt

by warren305 on Jan 2, 2012 7:40 PM EST up reply actions  

The title made me think

that he had Diverticulitis again when he fought.

by av1o3 on Jan 2, 2012 1:42 PM EST reply actions  

Me too

"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."

by dedstrk316 on Jan 2, 2012 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

He will have diverticulitis forever

His surgery was to manage symptoms and improve quality of life.

"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."

by menckenstein on Jan 2, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

He's got diverticulosis.

He’s always going to be susceptible to reoccurances of diverticulitis because of it.

"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."

by menckenstein on Jan 2, 2012 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

1st diverticulosis isn’t the same as diverticulitis which is what you said previously.
2ndly unless you’ve gone in and seen his remaining colon how would you know if he still has diverticula or not. They removed a foot of his colon which makes it likely they removed most of the outpouchings

ONE FC NEVER DIE

by Robust23 on Jan 2, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

1st it’s like mixing up HIV and AIDS, one leads to the other and they’re incorrectly used in place of the other pretty often, oh well.
2nd Considering he’s got diverticular disease he will always be at risk for developing more diverticulitus. It’s more common with “seniors” and he’s got it not even into his 40’s.

"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."

by menckenstein on Jan 2, 2012 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m just saying that medically speaking saying “he will always have diverticulitis” was wrong. Period.
Is he at higher risk of diverticular disease? obviously. We know he’s already had it but that has nothing to do with what you said earlier about them only managing the symptoms of the disease and not treating it. That was another completely inaccurate statement.

ONE FC NEVER DIE

by Robust23 on Jan 2, 2012 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I already addressed that I mixed the pocketing and the infection/inflammation up, stop harping on it.

Yes he’s at a high risk of developing diverticulitis, not diverticulosis, he has diverticulosis. Brock’s guts are diverticulosis land and beef jerky is the mayor.

"Now you see that evil will always triumph, because good is dumb."

by menckenstein on Jan 2, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

1st I know nothing about this stuff
2nd I like how you guys number your points

"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."

by dedstrk316 on Jan 2, 2012 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

He should gulp.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Jan 2, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

All I want him is to reach 10 straight title defenses.

He’d already be there had Travis Lutter not fucked things up.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Jan 2, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

*Too late*

Oh, my…

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Jan 2, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

My bad, man.

Here’s a kitten for ya, bro. Don’t be mad:

Double the heads, double the cute!

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Jan 2, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions  

that thing

looks delicious!

BECW S2: BUS FEEDERS PICK#73

by gspmademegay on Jan 2, 2012 2:18 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

this pic reminds me of a dream of Sly, Norris & ten other seniors trying to pick up my wife

will the scorpion king or the egg be the hydra
Luk 11:12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

by liptondrift on Jan 2, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Did you offer them a drink after she danced with them? Did they refuse to take pictures?

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Jan 2, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions   2 recs

Good strength of schedule though. Randy also ended up losing a lot with a tough strength of schedule. Only difference is, he did it for a longer period of time.

by castleeb on Jan 2, 2012 7:10 PM EST up reply actions  

So many parallels with the Fedor discussions of only a few years ago

The “what ifs” of Fedor being in the UFC. Now no one cares and he has been written off (at least in the near term). MMA fight legacies have a lag-time because it’s a new sport. It’s easy enough to “place” someone like Royce Gracie in the context of MMA history, but everyone else can be debated (or so it seems).

It might take a few years, but I predict that Lesnar’s place in MMA history will be secured. He will be viewed as emblematic of the sport’s shift from fadish diversion to legitimate contender in the public marketplace of cultural activities.

Yes, maybe he would have been a GOAT from a fighting perspective HAD he started earlier, but then you could make that case about nearly anyone who was born at the wrong time. Maybe Lou Thesz would have been a great MMA fighter… how about Bruce Lee? How about Antonio Inoki? The difference, of course, is that Lesnar DID compete in MMA. He took care of a late-career “what if” and made the most of it. Perhaps he could have made a different choice in the early 2002s, left pro wrestling and gone to PRIDE or the then-troubled UFC. But he would have taken a considerable pay cut. It was a choice.

"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win."
Mohandas Gandhi

"The fight is won or lost far away from witnesses - behind the lines, in the gym, and out there on the road, long before I dance under those lights."
Muhammad Ali

"If MMA is like dog fighting, those are some pretty fucking smart dogs."

"I don’t want to lick any butt."
GSP

by jackbox on Jan 2, 2012 1:57 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Even if he started his MMA career earlier, what makes you think that he would suddenly become a good striker or learn how to take a punch? He would probably be better, but still flawed.

by discoandherpes on Jan 2, 2012 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I kinda agree with you.

Brock’s legacy will not rest so much in his athletic achievments but in how his short lived presence affected the cultural and economic landscape of the sport.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Jan 2, 2012 2:05 PM EST up reply actions  

misleading title was misleading.

I’m not really much for speculation on what might have been, especially given the number of significant flaws in Brock’s game that have obviously shown up in the last 3 batterings.

by Superstitiousmma on Jan 2, 2012 2:04 PM EST reply actions  

For those interested in accuracy read title as: Brock Lesnar devastaded by AO not illness at UFC 141.

Aside form the misleading title this article suggests that Lesnar’s career would have been materialy different if he didn’t have the diverticulitis. Doesn’t Meltzeer say that it’s the lack of speed that was his demise? The only thing that prevented him from acheiving more was his late entry to the sport. Does anyone think he would have beat Cain if he was in less pain during training. Or how about if he didn’t have to pull out fo the JDS fight, would he have beaten Junior if he had a disease free training camp? Of course not. The only thing that could made a difference is years of training kickboxing.
He made the most that he could have with the opporitunity that he had. Good for him.

Trainyard Sleepers: Our Foot Your Ass

by Hardy's in your face on Jan 2, 2012 2:06 PM EST reply actions  

He spent a hell of a lot of time of his peak years completely unable to fight.

He could’ve been better even inside the limited time frame he had available to him had he been allowed to train consistently.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Jan 2, 2012 2:11 PM EST up reply actions  

I didn't realize Lesnar was fighting with Black House now

Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.

BECW Season 1 - The NOT LAST PLACE Team Spinning Fish
BECW Season 2 - WAR Cecil Peoples Champs

by Dave Strummer on Jan 2, 2012 2:11 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Only one nit-pick

“I invite all the fans who are calling him ‘exposed’ ‘bully’ and ‘front-runner’ to have a foot of their large intestine removed and then get in the cage with Cain Velasquez and Alistair Overeem.”

What would that prove, exactly? If we are not capable of handling Cain and Reem after surgery, that we are not allowed to criticize? That sounds like the stuff Sean Salisbury used to say to John Clayton: “What do you know? You never played in the NFL!”

BOOSH

by Farthammer on Jan 2, 2012 2:14 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah.

That would have worked perfectly without addind the “get in the cage with Cain Velasquez and Alistair Overeem.” But I get what he was getting at.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

Proud Member of INEPT: 80% More IntellEgent than y'all, WANKERZ.

Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Jan 2, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I just want to see some respect for the fighters

and the impact of disease and injury on their ability to compete. My statement is obviously heavy on the hyperbole.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jan 2, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions  

It does seem like folk willfuly ignore that kind of stuff in order to render a more absolute oppinion.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

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Draft #: 69--The magic number.

by Unabomberman on Jan 2, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

For me the fall of Lesnar is a reafirmation for mma

the twice in a row absolute defeat of the physical and explosive monster(and all the hype behind him) is the best thing that can happen to mma as a discipline…watch the monster fold on to smaller and more technical fighters was what i was hoping and expecting

when Lesnar came we had to watch a 4 fights newcomer to beat the hell out of champion, we saw a big dude that doesn’t even love fighting beating top 10s… that was humilliating…but the division learned from it, heart and technique overcame Lesnar

it was just a phase, he was bound to fall

by Parcero Malo on Jan 2, 2012 2:34 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

when Lesnar came we had to watch a 4 fights newcomer to beat the hell out of champion, we saw a big dude that doesn’t even love fighting beating top 10s… that was humilliating…but the division learned from it, heart and technique overcame Lesnar

Yep, I recall back then BE questioned that the arrival of Lesnar may have signalled the coming of the freak heavyweights that would just overpower the smaller heavyweights. There was also talk of whether it called for a super heavyweight class to keep things competitive.

It’s been a couple of years since and I think it’s safe to say that the HW division is in no threat of having hulks just beasting everyone in the division based on size alone. Like you said, heart and technique have prevailed.

by Jabroni on Jan 2, 2012 11:57 PM EST up reply actions  

In retrospect, much of that was foolishness. Cro Cop, Fedor, and Nogueira could have all at one point in their careers made light heavyweight, and are probably the three greatest heavyweights ever. JDS and Velasquez are pretty light in comparison, and are probably better than everyone else in the division.

by discoandherpes on Jan 3, 2012 2:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Karelin was done at 32

The man retired after a single loss in 13 years of competition and losing a point for the first time in 6. He was not done.

Comparing Brock, whose propensity to quitting is well known, to Karelin is a stretch at best.

Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)

by ludakrish on Jan 2, 2012 2:36 PM EST reply actions  

he was done

as in he retired. That’s a statement of fact that’s not open to arguing.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jan 2, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

I misread that as implying he retired due to being unable to compete at as high a level.

Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)

by ludakrish on Jan 2, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Karelin

I think you read it that way because that’s clearly what Meltzer was implying. Under Kid Nate’s interpretation, it’s just irrelevant, extraneous info.

And Karelin wasn’t physically “done” at 32. He still finished second in the world in the most prestigious wrestling competition, under somewhat questionable circumstances (he had to wrestle 3 matches that day, compared to only 2 for Gardner). He likely could have continued, at worst, as a top-5 heavyweight for at least another 3 to 4 years.

by thuggis on Jan 2, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Meltzer's point was that guys like Brock or Karelin

that are used to being #1 are not interested in competing once its clear they’ll be fighting for the #5 or #10 slot.

Follow me on Twitter @KidNate

by Nate Wilcox on Jan 2, 2012 10:55 PM EST up reply actions  

It may be what Meltzer implied but that’s not what he said. Not a very well constructed sentence if what you say is the case.

Bob Arum thinks I'm a white Nazi skinhead even though I'm a brown grad student (with hair)

by ludakrish on Jan 3, 2012 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

I guess it was the diverticulosis that made him averse to taking any sort of punches?

But wait, wasn’t there all sorts of talk coming out that he refused to spar, or take any leg kicks in training like when he was at Militech when he first started training for MMA? Certainly that was before his first bout with diverticulitis?

by Jabroni on Jan 2, 2012 3:28 PM EST reply actions  

Truth

He was either physically unprepared to take punishment (probably a lack of sparring) or mentally weak. Even if he was healthy, it wouldn’t fix his obvious flaws as a fighter.

by discoandherpes on Jan 2, 2012 3:40 PM EST up reply actions  

We Will Never Know But

the Lesner that ran to the title
then whipped Mir and Carwin
Could have been Big Time if he hadn’t got sick.
but we will never know now.

So I am watching the futre, see what Overeem-JDS turns into
see what Cain looks like coming back
see what Mir does next
see what happens in Nelson-Werdum
see how Jones looks when he moves ot Heavy

In the end Lesner did what most thought was impossible,
transitioned from pro-rasslin to MMA and won the biggest belt of all
faced foes no rookie shoud have been in with
and went out on his shield
All the know-it -alls finger-pointers and name-callers
can only wish they could come close to that

by kah on Jan 2, 2012 3:29 PM EST reply actions  

These are lyrics, right?

I can’t seem to find the melody though…

by Jabroni on Jan 2, 2012 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

someone should tell dave meltzer that every mma fighter that loses a fight not only totally sucks, but was never very good to begin with.

this also applies to champions that fail to finish fights, or who win against people, and then have those same people lose more convincingly to another fighter.

by Clifford J on Jan 2, 2012 3:33 PM EST reply actions  

Facts are all we have to go on

Debates over speculation on what could of been can go on forever but in the end all anyone can do is analyze the facts of the situation. A 31 year old man with zero MMA experience stepped onto the highest stage of mixed martial arts, won the title, and defended it twice. Many of the greatest mixed martial arts title holders we know such Quinton Jackson, Shogun Rua, and Rashad Evans were unable to defend their titles as much as Brock Lesnar did. I would venture to say that even if the UFC offered a $100 million dollar prize to any man walking the earth today to step into the octagon and beat any one of the UFC champions with 1 year of training that no one could do it. Even if by chance some freak from the NFL was able to train for a year and beat the UFC champion of his weight, would he be able to then defend the title twice after winning it? I don’t think any man on the planet could do it, but Brock Lesnar did. The bottom line is that it’s unfortunate we weren’t able to see what he could have been given more time and good health but what he did do was nothing short of amazing. He did something that no other man on the planet could do, I’d say he deserves the utmost respect.

by CRWHITLOCK on Jan 2, 2012 4:00 PM EST reply actions  

Lesnar was never a great striker even when he beat Couture and Mir unless you call hammer fists a skill.

by evenflow10 on Jan 2, 2012 4:26 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

One thing I'll always thank Brock for

I recently went on a number of web sites like WebMD and NIH and such, looked up diverticulitis and diverticulosis, and found out how my shitty diet is probably putting me at risk. It may well be that Brock’s "legacy’ will be – or could be – as a spokesman for increased awareness of how our diets can affect our health.

If a guy who epitomizes strength, durability, and the peak of human physical potential can be laid low by something that’s possibly preventable, he also could be the object lesson for changing how some of us go about something so basic as feeding ourselves.

Brock’s not an old guy, so none of us should say, “Well, whatever, I’ll worry about my diet when I’m as old as my parents.” The “experts” don’t know what causes the intestinal problems that Brock endured, but they do suspect that diet can help remediate them.

So, who cares what the guy’s legacy in fighting is. He has an opportunity to reach a lot of people – like me, for instance – and wake them up. If he cares enough about it, maybe that’s what his legacy can someday be.

by ( . Y . ) on Jan 2, 2012 4:34 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

It's a nasty disease.

It can be fatal. I lost family to it.

by Steve W on Jan 2, 2012 5:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

“I invite all the fans who are calling him ‘exposed’ ‘bully’ and ‘front-runner’ to have a foot of their large intestine removed and then get in the cage with Cain Velasquez and Alistair Overeem.”

Yes, because fans with perfectly fine intestines would totally beat Cain/Overeem.

by dynamitelungs on Jan 2, 2012 5:15 PM EST reply actions  

I’m also interested to know why having a foot of colon removed (I’m talkin about months after the surgery is healed up) is bad for training or fighting? Aside from having more watery stool and having to go to the bathroom more often…why is being 1 foot short of colon such a big deal? Kid Nate?

ONE FC NEVER DIE

by Robust23 on Jan 2, 2012 6:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Surgeries

I am going to be 100% honest about this. I have had nearly my entire large intestines (my entire colon except for 2 inches) removed. I had it done at a young age and I don’t remember my activity level beforehand. That aside, it’s been nearly 12 years since I’ve had it done.

I have played soccer and trained through BJJ in that time and I can honestly say that even eating healthy and staying fit I don’t have but so much stamina. If anything hits me in my stomach, regardless of how prepared I am, I lose nearly all of my energy right away and half of my stomach feels numb. I’ve collapsed from a soccer ball hitting me in the stomach, and I’ve lost tournaments because someone broke out of my guard by digging their head into my stomach and I couldn’t focus past the feeling.

If Brock had the same surgeries I did (he likely skipped a few steps in the surgeries, and I didn’t bother to look if he has a surgical scar and where it is), then any shots to his surgical site feel VERY uncomfortable. It’s something that can be ignored, but it’s like hitting your elbow. Suddenly everything is numb and you don’t feel nearly 100% anymore for a few minutes.

by kneilson on Jan 2, 2012 7:14 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

you’re a warrior dude.

Trainyard Sleepers: Our Foot Your Ass

by Hardy's in your face on Jan 3, 2012 12:16 AM EST up reply actions  

Good article
Brock Lesnar: Devastated By Illness At UFC 141

IMO, this sounds like you have actual doctor/scientific evidence/expert advice from a sports physician. Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like you do.

by aTn on Jan 2, 2012 7:47 PM EST reply actions  

Invitation not needed
I invite all the fans who are calling him ‘exposed’ ‘bully’ and ‘front-runner’ to have a foot of their large intestine removed and then get in the cage with Cain Velasquez and Alistair Overeem.

That’s just silly. That’s like saying the only people allowed to blog about a subject need to have a PhD or Masters degree on said subject. You as a blogger/pseudo-journalist should realize how crazy that assumption is.

by Jabroni on Jan 2, 2012 8:38 PM EST reply actions  

Please do not post a headline reading “Brock Lesnar: Devastated By Illness” when there is no facts to support that contention.
Your article is just guesses from another writer.

by uwcb on Jan 2, 2012 8:48 PM EST reply actions  

I don’t get the Lesnar hate wagon jumping from most. This article made some good points. No way is a guy his age after an illness and surgery like that going to be the same. Right as well on the comments about his biggest advantage to his game being his speed/athleticism (explosiveness for Rogan) and that seemed gone. Honestly though, to me it seemed like his passion was much less than it once was, from the first illness on. And against ‘Reem it seemed like he just didn’t care. But if that ability to explode and take someone down was gone (I nearly typed “explode on a guy” lol) then Brock didn’t have much more… for all his NCAA experience he wasn’t the technical wrestler than many at his level were.

by JeremyShane on Jan 2, 2012 8:49 PM EST reply actions  

Post above talking about the surgeries Brock had. It makes all stomach contact half unbearable.

by kneilson on Jan 2, 2012 10:00 PM EST reply actions  

prime Kerr smashes prime Lesnar.. brutally.

by chillnnsht on Jan 2, 2012 10:53 PM EST reply actions  

Lesnar was Mike Tyson of MMA

Truth be told, Lesnar like Mike Tyson(who used his whole being to intimidate) in boxing used his freakish size to overwhelm(a past prime Couture) n intimidate(Mir)his opponents. When Tyson ran in2 Buster Douglas(circa1990) who wasn’t afraid he was soundly beAt.Tyson’s handlers avoided Evander Holyfield for the longest time as well. When finally facing Holyfield he was thrashed. Cain was Brocks Mma version of Holyfield.

by Hankverdee on Jan 2, 2012 11:20 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Mike Tyson of MMA?

Please don’t compare the legend that is Mike Tyson to freaking Brock Lesnar. That analogy is flawed, at best.

by Pahlavi on Jan 3, 2012 5:32 AM EST up reply actions  

we don't live in a land of what ifs

This is the real world and if he was billed as being the greatest thing after beating Randy (who was in his 40s) then he can be beat by CV and Reem who are simply better. Don’t make excuses for him, he said he was healthy and lost leave it at that.

I am vorn the unspeakable the skulls of those who defy me bleach in the suns of hundreds of worlds...... and you are

by Roman727 on Jan 3, 2012 8:53 AM EST via iPhone app reply actions  

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