Second BJJ lesson
by Terra17 on Jan 10, 2012 6:05 PM EST
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Thanks to everyone for your comments, advice and encouragement with my last post on my first lesson, which can be found here:
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/1/9/2694756/first-bjj-lesson
Second lesson after the jump.
Tonight's training was at a different location to my first lesson. This area had much less mat space and was run by one of the club's purple belts but with only about 12 people attending it wasn't too squashed. We started again with a basic warm-up including this time, to my horror...front rolls. I mean, really?! I haven't willingly gone head over heels since I was 6. So that was interesting.
What I learned.
We started drilling standing up from an opponent's guard. The method we were shown was to get one foot flat down by their side and sort of roll up from the toes of the other foot. I found this pretty difficult - I don't think my posture was great because I was pushing down on the guy below me to stand which I was told is a very bad idea, balance-wise. We added to this a move whereby we'd capture the arm of the guy who had us in guard, stand and lift him off the ground with their arm tucked under an elbow. Once I felt vaguely competant with this we also included a few ways to scrape the guy's legs out from around us while standing.
I found this knackering. I'd never trained with a gi before so I wasn't used to using any grips like that. I also didn't realise how strenuous and difficult it is to keep someone in your guard! I found it easier to creep my hips a little higher on someone to start with when I wanted to hold them in guard. I also realised that a lingering injury from Catch Wrestling to my toe (very David Haye, I know) made the standing motion really painful for me even when my legs weren't gassed - I'll soon toughen up, I hope. I know my feet are getting torn to shreds on the mats at the minute.
We were then split into 3 groups and groups 1, 2 and 3 would be called out alternatively - when your number was called you'd lie on the mat and take people in turn into your guard. If you were the guy on his back your objective was to keep them in guard, if you were kneeling in your opponent's guard you just had to stand. I sucked at this - the guy in guard was free to use any subs and not knowing any gi subs I got choked out almost immediately by someone crossing my collars around my throat. I also kept getting tripped down easily from the stacked position but after a while I figured out how to kind of balance my weight on them a bit. I also learned that sub-consciously going easy on a girl in training can almost get you choked - lesson learned, full equality next time I see you on the mat!
On to rolling. I don't think I got a single sub this time but again managed to roll constantly for a good 15 minutes before my arms stopped working. I surprised the first guy I rolled with (and myself!) by throwing up an arm-bar but I didn't have the experience or skill to finish the sub, even with a gi. I took a few guy's backs and tried a few things but I spent the most of my time on the mat under a crushing side control or half-guard. I was happy that I got a few reversals and the escape from side control I'd been taught (post forearms under opponent's neck and on the line of their groin, buck upwards) worked for me under pressure and I'd remembered it. One advantage to training 2 days in a row when you're starting out, I guess.
There's another session tomorrow night I'm going to go to as much to check out the club's third location as much as anything else and then rest, rest my weary bones. The guy running this lesson was kind enough to lend me a gi to roll with until I buy one as well so feast your eyes on the next Abu Dhabi absolute champion:
"WHERE YOU AT, WERDUM??"
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Nice! lol at your gi picture too hahaha
Keep going man. The more days you go, the better. It’ll become a passion. I’m up to about 14 hours a week and I still mentally go nuts when I have to miss a day for any reason. Get used to the gi…..it’ll help your no-gi game a ton.
You have to use a lot more technique........
to get out of a submission in a gi. As you’re perfecting the escape techniques it’ll be compounded without the gi. You’ll hear in the gyms a lot “fuck, I barely got out…..good thing it was no-gi” meaning they wouldn’t have been able to escape in a gi. There are lot more ways to grip and control your opponent in a gi so once you start feeling comfortable moving around in a gi and escaping/applying submissions you will feel like an agile, oiled up beast without the gi. Ben Henderson, who is obviously well known for escaping tight submissions, stated that when he is training for a fight he trains in a gi at least twice a week.
by Brandon Starr on Jan 10, 2012 7:30 PM EST up reply actions
thank you for that but is there always like gi and no gi training? first one then the other?
or are they on different days?
Varies by gym I assume....
at my gym I train in the gi Mon, Tue, Wed, Thurs…… No-gi I train Fri and Sat.
Sometimes people sign up that have no interest in rolling in a gi or can’t afford one, so they show up to the gi classes without a gi and we just instruct them to roll with the person as if they aren’t wearing a gi either (meaning don’t grab them for an advantage that they don’t have while rolling with you). But if you want to get promoted you have train consistently in the gi. In my opinion, promoting anyone to any belt rank, under any circumstances, without training in the gi is bullshit. A belt is not necessary without a gi so it’s…..just…..stupid.
by Brandon Starr on Jan 10, 2012 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
in my opinion
I wouldn’t even bother with No-Gi until you got a at least 3 stripes on your white belt dude. If you do BJJ you are competitive, which means you will rely on bad habits to get out of positions if they work for you. Learn your technique right the first time and don’t spend valuable time relearning things when you could be expanding your tool set.
I recently quit drinking carbonated beverages.
I agree
that the Gi has benefits in slowing the game down and helping with ones defense BUT i also think it limits ones offense at the same time. All the collar, sleeve and cuff grips are obviously unavailable in the no gi game. The best hybrid (and this is Marcelo’s whole thing) is training no gi techniques in the gi. It would suck to master something like the spider guard and have no way to play it in no gi. Marcelo has success in both because his game is so ubiquitous.
by RightTriangle on Jan 10, 2012 11:20 PM EST up reply actions
Pro Gi
“The most technical bjj fighters are ones who train with the gi. The gi has a purpose, no gi you develop many bad habits in how slippery you are and how sloppy you escape positions. The gi takes the strength out of the game and forces you to use your hips and find the technical escape. I do believe in training both and not becoming to gi dependent however.”
I recently quit drinking carbonated beverages.
^Marcelo Garcia...
in his own words: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hFHoykw4hI
Roger Gracie: when you do MMA you get sweaty and slippery that you don’t get training with the Gi. But if you train WITH the Gi, you don’t have the slippery element, and you have to be more technical.
Me: The gi slows the game down and allows for the player to learn to rely on technique and not athleticism. But wtf do i know.
I recently quit drinking carbonated beverages.
I'll echo MauiPimpin
it creates more technique in general because it slows the grappling down and makes it less about athleticism. The friction of the gi makes it hard to escape from submissions and other positions and grips can stall things.
Jean Jacques Machado (Eddie Bravo’s teacher) has stated a few times he can always tell when rolling with Eddie’s students which ones have trained in the gi and which ones haven’t because when rolling the guys with gi have much better defensive abilities, guard passing and guard retention.
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
Me three.
Roger Gracie believes that no-gi exclusive players eventually hit a wall in their skill level.
I recently quit drinking carbonated beverages.
Sorry to hijack your post with gi vs no gi talk
good stuff man!
when your starting out don’t worry about getting taps when rolling, just try to use the least strength possible. Even it means if you get smashed, your still learn better habits and down the round it will benefit you so much.
To have a Cannae you must have a Varo
-George Patton
"The complete man must work, study and wrestle."
-Aristotle
Yeah we always say "use about 10% less strength than your partner, and about 10% more technique"
You’ll win that battle every time.
by Brandon Starr on Jan 10, 2012 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
Hijacking
I’ve got a vested interest in the gi/no gi talk myself, initially I only wanted to train no gi but with a little experience and taking into account what people have said I can really see the benefit in training with the gi.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/1/9/2694756/first-bjj-lesson
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/1/10/2697690/second-bjj-lesson
Depends
Where I train had one spare and were kind enough to lend it to me but there were a couple of people training without…
I’d say if they’re being thorough enough to make no gi roll with no gi people they’re probably also established enough to have a couple of suits spare for newcomers.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/1/9/2694756/first-bjj-lesson
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/1/10/2697690/second-bjj-lesson
White belts...
What’s the usual etiquette with getting your first belt? Should I ask for one or will the guy in charge of the club just give me one once I’ve been training a couple of weeks?
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/1/9/2694756/first-bjj-lesson
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/1/10/2697690/second-bjj-lesson
Are you buying a gi?
All Gi’s usually come with a white belt.
Right leg swelling, Left leg minor bruising
by Well Read Idiot on Jan 11, 2012 5:37 AM EST up reply actions
Did not know that
Thanks for the info – I’ll have a word with the guy who runs the club on Monday and see if he gets a discount/has any recommendations for buying a gi.
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/1/9/2694756/first-bjj-lesson
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/1/10/2697690/second-bjj-lesson
Allow me to chime in on gi vs. no gi:
All, yes ALL of the world’s top tier grapplers train in the gi the majority of the time and then switch to only no-gi training months out from a no-gi centric event.
Training in the gi is incredibly important in building any sort of legitimate grappling game (in terms of jiu jitsu), by only training no-gi you are intentionally handicapping yourself.
-AboveThisFire
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
If I live in a castle and you want to kill me, storming the gates is probably not the best idea. You'd do a lot better hitting me in the head with a brick when I come out for the mail. -Ryan Hall
I then rip off my shirt and do like a hulk scream and pose and then say to the kid " don’t you no I would fucking destroy you are you fucking retarded? -Areyouforreal
by Patrick Tenney on Jan 11, 2012 10:23 AM EST reply actions
and NOBODY likes the handicapped.
by Brandon Starr on Jan 11, 2012 1:27 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
not true
I JUST WANT MY BASKETBALL BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Sean in Vancouver on Jan 12, 2012 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
It depends on your goals.
If your aim is to fight in mma or no-gi events then you should be training no-gi most-to-all of the time. If you would like to just compete in sport bjj competition with the gi, then you should train mostly wearing the gi. I personally split it in half but thats not necessarily by choice, I have also made it a point though in my 4 years of training 4x a week, to not get too dependent on collar/sleeve grips (more underhooks,whizzers, head grips instead). So most of the stuff I do while in the gi, I can translate while I’m not wearing it.
On a side note, I got a question for Patrick Tenney. What is your rank? I’ve asked you once before but never got a response. I’m just curious considering your BE’s resident grappling expert. Also who do you train under?
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