ADCC 2011 Results: Is Marcelo Garcia the Greatest of All Time?
by Bloody Elbow on Sep 28, 2011 1:00 PM EDT
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This is a guest post by T.P. Grant, part of the Bloody Elbow Grappling Coverage Team.
Marcelo Garcia is one of the most popular fighters in the BJJ community. Known as 'Marcelinho', he is a member of the trinity of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, along with Roger Gracie and Ronaldo "Jacare" Souza. This past Sunday Marcelo may have set himself apart by winning his fourth ADCC championship.
An accomplished BJJ middleweight (163 lbs), Marcelo is a five-time world champion at the black belt level in Gi Jiu Jitsu. He entered the ADCCs fresh off of wining an IBJJF championship and in the first two rounds Marcelo dispatched Davis Heart and Vitor Estima in less than two minutes combined with his patented guillotine from mount.
In the semi-finals, Marcelo faced the young and hungry up and comer Kron Gracie, son of legend Rickson Gracie. Kron, a black belt since 2009 and still seeking his first World Championship, was trapped in a stacked division with veteran competitors. In his semi-final match with Marcelo, Kron locked on a guillotine choke that appeared very tight. Marcelo admitted he thought about tapping, but resolved to fight until he passed out and managed to escape.
Marcelo won the match on points, but it was the sternest test he had faced in years. In the finals Marcelo faced Leo Vieira - a 2x ADCC champion who once fought an almost 100lbs heavier Mark Kerr to a stand-still. Marcelo quickly defeated Vieira with a triangle from mount. Marcelo finished the two biggest grappling competitions of 2011 not only as the champion, but without a single point being scored against him.
With this victory Marcelo Garcia moves into a class of his own as the most decorated ADCC competitor. Roger Gracie's greatness stems from domination with fundamentals, Jacare Souza's from physical brilliance, while Marcelo's stems from technical brilliance. Marcelo's creativity and innovation has lead him to create amazingly effective, deviously simple and detail heavy sweeps.
Marcelo realized as he was progressing towards black belt that at the highest levels of BJJ, submissions from the back had become the exception instead of the rule and focused his guard game on sweeping rather than submitting. Marcelo mastered the butterfly guard and then adapted it to the super technical X-Guard and tinkered with both positions with and without the gi.
Marcelo is still a young man, in his late twenties, and has a long grappling career still ahead of him. While Roger Gracie's accomplishments are well-documented and his ability to pass the guard and submit seemingly anyone will always earn him a spot among the all-time greats, Marcelo Garcia stands alone as the pound-for-pound greatest living grappler. Nine of the most prestigious gold medals in submission grappling hang in Marcelo's closet and the technical innovations make him a once in a generation type talent, akin to Carlos and Helio Gracie the original innovators of Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
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easily my favorite grappler of all time
definitely one of the g.o.a.t.’s
Teams I support: Redskins, Wizards, Nationals. MMA & Boxing fanatic.
Twitter: @StillUnknown85
Rousimar Palhares is the craziest grappler of all time...
and his impression of the ultimate warrior is spot on.
I dunno, dude,
Filho is still the undisputed king of crazy after pulling a Mike Tyson, getting tribal tattoos on his face, and talking to god during his fight with Chael Sonnen
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 28, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Kron Gracie
Almost rivals Gunnar Nelson and Maximo Blanco in terms of awesome sounding names.
Kron sounds like the name of one of Conan’s bastards.
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
MMA is stepping on other people's dreams to reach your own.
- Roxanne Modafferi
To put it simply, YES!
He is the Michael Jordan of BJJ.
by KAN0 on Sep 28, 2011 1:10 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Travis Lutter begs to differ
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by Discman2 on Sep 28, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
No…no he doesn’t
Me > Ben Henderson
@KrimsonTVN
DIA2ill.com coming soon....
by Krimson on Sep 28, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Mike Goldberg would disagree strongly
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by Discman2 on Sep 28, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
wait
did Goldberg really say that Travis Luter was the Jordan of bjj?
Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!
by SentientAndroid on Sep 28, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
lol
Goldberg – “Because if his name was Keith Johnson then the Dean of Mean makes no sense”
Rogan – “…you’re right Goldberg”
Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!
by SentientAndroid on Sep 29, 2011 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions
LOL!
Goldberg – “Michael Jordanesque in his grappling skills is Travis Luter”
Rogan – “:/ No! no he’s not”
Goldberg – “He’s not that good?”
Rogan – “No, no he’s not that good.”
Goldberg – “Kobe Bryant maybe?”
Rogan – “Um no, no he’s not that good either.”
Goldberg – “Tim Duncan?”
Rogan – “No, I don’t know anymore basketball players. Larry Bird?”
Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!
by SentientAndroid on Sep 29, 2011 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I see why Goldberg gets janked on so much now. I knew he wasn’t as informed as Rogan, but sheesh.
Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!
by SentientAndroid on Sep 29, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Is it safe to say that Marcelo Garcia
Is the Jon Jones of BJJ/sarcasm.
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
MMA is stepping on other people's dreams to reach your own.
- Roxanne Modafferi
Roger Gracie is the GOAT of grappling/BJJ.
Marcelo is definitely top 2/3 all time IMO though.
If you want to educate yourself talk to Puck Head., he is Mania’s Sig Champion for a reason.
by NNR (formerly NameNotRequired) on Sep 28, 2011 1:11 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
ehhhhhhh….. Roger is/was on top for a few years but saying he’s the GOAT is premature. He’s amazing, and top 5 pound for pound currenly… but let’s see where else he goes before we lock him down as the man.
There’s definitely an argument to be made for Roger, but I think at this point you have to also look at the smaller guys who have compiled just as impressive win lists.
-AboveThisFire
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
If I live in a castle and you want to kill me, storming the gates is probably not the best idea. You'd do a lot better hitting me in the head with a brick when I come out for the mail. -Ryan Hall
I then rip off my shirt and do like a hulk scream and pose and then say to the kid " don’t you no I would fucking destroy you are you fucking retarded? -Areyouforreal
by Patrick Tenney on Sep 28, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Jacare, Roger, Marcelo
The Trinity of Bjj.
Roger has triple distilled technique, the purest of the pure, in a Heavy Weights body. That doesn’t happen…… Ever.
Marcelo is incredibly inovative and has a complex game that has answers for everything. Plus he has tree trunks for legs that really work well for the xguard.
Jacare is innovative,technical, and incredibly athletic. His passing and ability to never end up in guard is mind boggling.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 28, 2011 1:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
who is the best?
At what ? They are all the best at different things. If I want to learn to collar choke or tall man Judo, I watch Roger.
To xguard sweep or take the back? Marcelo.
Take down and pass ? Jacare.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 28, 2011 1:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Marcelo dominates his weight class like no other. He finally didn’t win his division at ADCC in 2009 and lost to a guy that he’d already beaten twice. Marcelo nearly always wins against guys his own size and loses to either Jacare or Roger… both of whom are much bigger than he is.
www.mmalinker.com
by exsanguinator on Sep 28, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Braulio in '09
=
unbeatable
aka BuckeyedBear34
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
~ Napoleon Bonaparte
Teachers open the door, but you must enter by yourself
~ Chinese Proverb
I think he is the best ever...
…not necessarily based on empirical evidence, but if you hit Roger Gracie with the ol’ Middleweight Shrink Ray™, I think Marcelo wins that match eight or nine times out of ten.
if the Queen had balls she would be the King.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 28, 2011 1:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
cant be. cant he both.
It’s what’s known as a paradox .
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 28, 2011 3:09 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't know much about pure grappling
beyond the historical pieces and analysis I’ve read here on BE. Marcelo sounds truly amazing, like an Anderson Silva of the ground game. I would love to see some video of his run this year, guess Ill go to youtube unless someone has links.
Also, this may be my ignorance but
Marcelo finished the two biggest grappling competitions of 2011 not only as the champion, but without a single point being scored against him.
Isn’t that contradicted by:
Kron locked on a guillotine choke that appeared very tight. Marcelo admitted he thought about tapping, but resolved to fight until he passed out and managed to escape.
subs attemps dont score points.
Just advantage. It’s silly.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 28, 2011 1:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i have no idea.
It’s just how it is.
The reason points are awarded for position in bjj is because those are positions you can effectivly strike from.
There are smaller tournaments that give points for sub attempts. The big ones don’t.
Helio Gracie didn’t believe in points or time limits for this reason. He believed it robbed bjj of its essence by not going to the submission. But submission only tournaments are rare.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 28, 2011 1:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Thanks for trying though..
I guess, it is like in basketball, if you try for a lay up or a dunk but got blocked, you don’t score/win the game.
Yea but position scores but can’t end the fight. It’s weird .
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 28, 2011 2:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If your trying to submit, youre trying to end the fight. If you escape, youre trying to survive. The advantage is the subber is the one attempting finishing the fight. It seems to me like this is how they see it.
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i think he was asking why subs dont score points.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 28, 2011 1:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i thought he was asking about advantage
either way.
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vid links
Marcelo teaching the X-Guard
aka BuckeyedBear34
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
~ Napoleon Bonaparte
Teachers open the door, but you must enter by yourself
~ Chinese Proverb
Its amazing to be that these bad ass grapplers still manage to submit each other
A true testament to their skill
Follow me: @IISMASHII
Violence Begets Violence-Oct.25
Wasn't this the guy that thanked Steve Seagal after winning the Mundials (sp?)?
Is he both one of the best grapplers in the world AND one of the funniest? That shit had me rolling…
Yep!
He did it again with this year’s ADCC. Aside from his Badass Jits, I think he also have one of the best personalities, gathering from what I read/heard from accounts.
Marcelo is a class act, everyone in the stadium would applaud him when he walked down to the mat or just walked around the floor. Jacare is a great guy to. Roger. Well. Roger is Roger.
by basvanderwolk on Sep 28, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Marcelo’s game has advanced significantly past the x-guard, he’s noted for really pioneering it but now people sort of caught on to the mechanics and innovated off of it themselves.
Marcelo this year in the IBJJF Worlds and ADCC all about passing guard and choking people (north south in the mundials, and the marcelotine in the ADCC… other than that sick triangle).
-AboveThisFire
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
If I live in a castle and you want to kill me, storming the gates is probably not the best idea. You'd do a lot better hitting me in the head with a brick when I come out for the mail. -Ryan Hall
I then rip off my shirt and do like a hulk scream and pose and then say to the kid " don’t you no I would fucking destroy you are you fucking retarded? -Areyouforreal
Definitely.
You better evolve quickly if your game is seen all over the internet. And the man is a genius! I just came across this video of him teaching Stephan Kesting how to refine his NS choke and you can really see how far advanced he is..
Marcelo was the first grappler that made a jaw dropping impression on me and I love him ever since. When he “lost” to Popovitch in 2009 I felt like somebody robbed me.
"... All reined up in old language and old assumptions, straining to jump clean-hoofed on to a whole new track of being I only suspect is there. I can't see it, because my educated, average head is being held at the wrong angle..."
Why does he hang his gold medals in his closet?
Seems like he should get some sort of display case :P
Marcelo is the man
That is all…..
by fightersvizion on Sep 28, 2011 5:12 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I’ve trained under Marcelo for half a year now. First of all, however kind and humble and snuggly you think he is from watching him on the internet—he’s even more so in person.
Regarding his game; while his creativity is legendary, I have observed that it’s his fundamentals that win him match after match year after year. While his repertoire of options is immense, he tends to move through a well trodden path of moves over and over in an increasingly nuanced, powerful, and aware state.
@caseymanrique
I just wish I could pass guard at even a 10th of his level, incredible stuff.
-AboveThisFire
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
If I live in a castle and you want to kill me, storming the gates is probably not the best idea. You'd do a lot better hitting me in the head with a brick when I come out for the mail. -Ryan Hall
I then rip off my shirt and do like a hulk scream and pose and then say to the kid " don’t you no I would fucking destroy you are you fucking retarded? -Areyouforreal
by Patrick Tenney on Sep 28, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish my anything was at a 10th of his level
aka BuckeyedBear34
Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.
~ Napoleon Bonaparte
Teachers open the door, but you must enter by yourself
~ Chinese Proverb
I fucking knew that guy was snuggly.
I was watching him choke people and I thought “you know what, I bet that dude fuckin loves to snuggle is excellent at doing so”.
Also, YES about the fundamentals. Everything looks so simple, he’s just that good.
by Brandon Starr on Sep 28, 2011 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions
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