Larry Merchant Reacts To Dana White's Insults, Respects UFC's Street Fighting Revenue
UFC president Dana White recently took the time to throw a few jabs the way of HBO's Larry Merchant for the commentator's post-fight interview-turned-argument with Floyd Mayweather, Jr. White said that HBO should fire the "senile" Merchant for his actions.
Merchant recently responded to the situation, giving his opinion of White and the UFC to Boxing Scene.
On Dana:
"Let's see, anyone who can make a multimillion dollar business out of street fighting has to be respected." Merchant opened up during our recent conversation. "My opinion is that anyone is allowed to put up a tent, put on a show, and invite people to come. And obviously he's had a lot of success. Good for him."
On MMA's appeal:
"I don't watch it. I don't get a so-called sport in which you can have a 6-2 record and be called a world champion. I just don't appreciate the finer points of MMA."
On Dana's criticism:
"It's a free country. I'm a commentator, and if I'm commenting and observing on others than how can I not be open to others observing and commenting on me?"
There will certainly be MMA fans who get mad that Merchant took a few shots at the sport. But he's an 80 year old man who has been involved with boxing for most of his life. He is not the target audience for the UFC and it's not crazy to think that the sport doesn't appeal to him.
Merchant is not everyone's cup of tea and he has certainly been out of line at times in his career. But I've always enjoyed that he isn't there to sell the fight or fighters, that's not his job. He does go too far trying to establish his own narratives on fights and can be overly negative much of the time.
He was "over the line" with Floyd after the fight to a degree, but again...he's 80 years old. I think Larry just doesn't have it in him to be pushed around by a guy like Floyd and he'd just as soon get into it with him and get fired than back down.
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From skinhead homosexuals rolling on the ground to street fighting
Looks like we are moving up in the eyes of boxing’s old guard.
People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant.
- Helen Keller
MMA is stepping on other people's dreams to reach your own.
- Roxanne Modafferi
by The Blackula on Sep 27, 2011 11:18 AM EDT reply actions 12 recs
haha
Merchant actually answered pretty civil in my opinion compared to Dana F**KING Whit’s interview.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
by killphil on Sep 27, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 8 recs
In other news, another old man has stated his opinion about “back in my day” and still no one cares.
by squaresphere on Sep 27, 2011 11:22 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Merchant
I hate how being wicked old is always an excuse for guys like Merchant. Anytime an old person acts completely out of whack with the way they should be have people always say things like "Oh ya he’s a total asshole but he’s really old so whatever. “Ya he’s a racist but he’s old so give him a break.” So on and so forth.
I’m sorry the guy is old but it shouldn’t be an excuse to behave like a total moron. If you’re too old and senile to be able to do the job then go away. If you can’t behave within the normal confines of society than you shouldn’t have a job that puts you in front of millions of people. I hate Floyd but berating him like Merchant did and challenging him to fight is ridiculous. This is just another situation where Merchant shows he’s lost touch with reality.
He didn’t challenge him to a fight. He said if he was 50 years younger he’d kick his ass. And then laughed and admitted that he couldn’t have done it 50 years ago a few minutes later.
I’m not saying it’s an excuse. I’m saying he’s 80 and I don’t think he gives a fuck. Floyd was ducking answering the questions he was asking and when Larry said “you can thank your sponsors later” or whatever, Floyd blew up. Old ass Larry didn’t want to put up with his shit and blew up. I think at 80 he doesn’t care about decorum and if he gets fired, he gets fired.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I think that’s the exact reason he’s unqualified for his job. You can’t just blow up on people if they don’t answer your questions. Not only does it get you nowhere but it makes it impossible for you to work together in the future. How will HBO be able to put Merchant on another Mayweather fight knowing that Floyd will most likely stonewall Merchant? I appreciate that Merchant doesn’t just ask easy questions as most people would in that situation but losing his cool like he did, and comments like this about MMA, show Merchants out of touch and should be put out to pasture. There are people with an equally good knowledge of boxing who could do a better job than he does at this point.
he’s not senile is all i’m trying to get across. They could let him go and I’d kind of miss him in a weird way. but it wouldn’t be because he’s senile.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAG-p4VyYqc
Larry Merchant Rejoiced when this guy got tko’d by the douchebag Mayorga.
Larry’s spiteful joy when fighters he doesn’t like loses is some of the most disgusting things I have seen. HBO plz fire this guy!
by Mohammedini Hussein on Sep 27, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
What did he say about MMA that was so horrible? disrespectful? so offensive in those statements?
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
uh... calling a sport street fighting?
i think that is the most disrespectful thing anyone can ever say about MMA
Matt "The Terror" Serra!!!!
How about HUMAN COCKFIGHTING
In most street fighting you can kick a downed opponent head on the ground. See PRIDE. Oh wait, you can’t do that in the States, but you can elbow the crap out of some one’s face . . . but wait not in a 12 – 6 downward motion. (See: Jones vs Hammill)
I love MMA. But it is not completely far-fetched to see how some like Larry Merchant, or any of the old guard of boxing would compare MMA to street fighting. I can see a sport like boxing, judo, wrestling on a world stage like the Olympics. But can I see Frank Mir snapping Tim Sylvia’s arm or Steve Cantwell celebrating after breaking an arm and stating that he always wanted to do that on NBC? I can see how many people would be turned off by that.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
at the same time mayweather called pacman some racial names
can we assume that all the boxers are racists? no
Pride rule was kinda extreme so i didnt like it. im glad that soccer kick and stomp are illegal now. but whats wrong with elbow? elbows are used to cut people and thats just a strategy. 12-6 can break someone’s skull and thats why its not legal.
if you wanna argue with mma being too violent, then i say boxing is also violent. hitting a person with fists for 36 mins? i really dont see the difference between that and elbowing someone for 25 mins.
and i dont see anything wrong with mir breaking sylvia’s arm, he did it because sylvia refused to tap, pacman made margarito’s eye look like a vagina but margarito refused to stop so they kept on fighting. whats wrong with that now?
generalizing with some extreme cases is just wrong
Matt "The Terror" Serra!!!!
MMA is violent. So is boxing and Football in my opinion FAR more brutal.
Classic Quotes:
but whats wrong with elbow? elbows are used to cut people and thats just a strategy
Let’s sponsor the guy who wants to cut his opponent with blood dripping all over the Octagon and put him on a cereal box next to Eli Manning or better yet Michael Vick.
and i dont see anything wrong with mir breaking sylvia’s arm
There is a huge difference between the padding of gloves in MMA and boxing. I just needed to state that.
Maybe you missed the my key point.
it is not completely far-fetched to see how some like Larry Merchant, or any of the old guard of boxing would compare MMA to street fighting.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I just tell people that while MMA is more aesthetically violent, but boxing actually the more violent sport by far.
That said, there’s nothing wrong about liking violence in a compare sport. A lot of boxing fans say they come for the sweet science, but when a sloppy brawl breaks out in boxing they love it just the same.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
This is true, everything except the part where you said boxing is more violent. Just a difference in opinion.
One of the biggest differences in boxing and MMA is perception and acceptance. Boxing has a long history, we all know this. Boxing’s violence is accepted. Broken jaws, broken orbital bones via fists in a padded glove.
MMA’s violence?
Well . . . it’s new and it will take years for people (casual fans) to accept a major superstar unleash elbows and knees to their opponents nose or “trying to cut their opponent as a strategy.”
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Cuts are superficial. If you’ve ever been cut, you know it doesn’t cause any serious damage. It takes a serious laceration to injure someone.
In boxing, the amount of shots you take to the head is far greater. Combined that with the ten count, you have a far more violent sport. I’ve seen guys in boxing go out, only to recover in a couple seconds and keep boxing.
Those aren’t opinions, those are facts.
How is boxing less violent than mma? Aside from aesthetic factors like blood?
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
as i said before.
It’s an illustion of safety for people that don’t know what they are looking at.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 12:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Cuts are superficial. Like I said, it is all about perception. What people see, not necessarily what they know or are aware of.
Hopkins defeated Oscar De La Hoya with a punch to the kidney. More head shots in boxing? Ehhh maybe you’re right. I get and understand Dana White’s spiel concerning when a I goes out, he goes out . . . but we’ve seen many MMA fighter’s “survive” flash KO’s and continue to fight. (See: Sonnen vs. Marquardt)
End note, “you have a far more violent sport” is not a fact. I don’t know about you but I’ve seen boxing matches where guys work the body for rounds before they go head-hunting.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You still take more punches in boxing than in mma. Because you can’t kick a guy in the legs in boxing, boxers tend to throw and land a lot more jabs. Boxing has more rounds, and the grappling aspect in mma accounts for a large portion of most fights (even if it is just clinching against the cage).
And B-Hop/De La Hoya was one fight dude.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
There’s totally more shots to the head in boxing. But there are very few fights in boxing where guys get legit knocked out and continue fighting on.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe I should change the way I say that. I mean in MMA if you can’t defend yourself the second after you get knocked down, the fights over. In boxing, you could not be able to intelligently defend yourself for six seconds, get up and keep going.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Hey, I’ll give you that but do you really want me to list more fights? Nah, not really.
I just don’t think just because “boxing has more shots to the head” makes it conclusively more violent
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
boxing isnt necessarily more violent
i think the raw aspect of kicks, knees, punches and the constant blood in mma fights definately makes it more appear violent
but its definately worse for your heads sake to be a boxer than an mma fighter
while i’ve never actually had any mma sparring, i’ve done some boxing sparring and played football for half my life. by far the worst sport for your health is football and its not even close
the thing with football is you have a game of friday or saturday and get nailed in the head (i played DE and RG) nearly hundreds of times. then you take sunday off have light practice on monday and precede to get nailed in the head another few hundred times tuesday-thursday in practice before you get nailed in the head another hundred times on saturday. and this process repeats itself from august to december
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
I enjoy football, but I really feel sorry for them. That’s not easy.
boxing <> MMA . . . who’s actually more violent? Who knows? You really can not conclusive state one is more than the other. Professional american football, on any given Sunday you will feel the pain without adequate rest.
BUT . . . like you said, the constant blood in mma fights definitely makes it appear more violent. And that makes it difficult to stomach and makes it appear like street fight.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
so basically what we've agreed on is
Most Violent Sports
1. Football
2. Boxing and MMA (tie)
and i think that list looks about right
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
I’d say for in competition violence…football takes it for the speed and violence of the collisions.
what gets lost with MMA and boxing is the amount of shots to the head the guys take in training.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
football hides the violence a bit
instead of seeing pat barry ktfo’d with his eyes still open you simply see a guy laying on the ground
also people dont see what goes on in a fumble pile. eye pokes and groin strikes happen often to the guy holding the ball. and god help you if you go down there with long hair
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
what about hockey?
they’re actually allowed to fight for a brief period, go to the penalty box and then come right back. still more accepted in the mainstream than MMA.
and i’m not even counting the body checks and concussions that take place there.
"The Glen Rice scandal is way out of line w/ the GOP's values. They're interested in fucking black people by the millions, not one at a time"
by Victor Rodriguez on Sep 27, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
@milk72
…Always enjoy your insights here at BE….if you don’t mind me asking, how old are you? How many years did you play football? Did you ever have any concussions? Do you regret playing football?
I’m 40 and my sons are 8 and 7…they’ve been in football for 3+ years now and enjoy it, but I have to admit I am somewhat regretting steering them towards football….the games at even the 8-9 year old level are very exciting, but man they are already hitting liike crazy and they are not even that big and fast yet….any thoughts welcome….thanks….
formerly NeilLomaxFan
by BrothersGottaAndyHug on Sep 27, 2011 9:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Roy Jones Jr./Virgil Hill being my personal favorite. That said, it’s not that often you see a pure body shot knockout.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
no its not.
That’s what it was supposed to be. Then john Mcain and company fucked it up.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 12:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
To follow the tangent in the other direction
The way boxing pundits put boxing on a pedestal above all other combat sports is pretty damn bizarre.
It’s like “We’ve limited the ruleset to only allow punching, oh my god this is so majestic. Guys let’s call this the sweet science. Oh, and any rulesets that allow more aspects of real fighting are brutal, savage and uncivilized.”
Or let a guy who is clearly out continue to fight just because he recovered in six or so seconds.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, we just let guys who can’t walk back to their corners get carried there and continue to fight.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
yea..
That was horrible
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 12:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If there's one aspect of boxing culture that I wish could become part of MMA culture
it’s the acceptance of throwing the towel / calling the fight between rounds. Urijah’s massacred leg, the right side of Koscheck’s face… corners should be much more willing to call it.
Maybe it’s the whole “anything can happen at any time” meme in MMA that prevents them from being willing to say that’s it for their fighter? I don’t know.
by Pyrgz Krum on Sep 27, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Uhmmm this is cool except, there are many boxing matches that really should be stopped but they’re allowed to continue.
Guys are hailed as warriors for continuing while horribly losing a fight.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Mayweather/Ortiz featured Saul Alvarez winning by premature stoppage because the ref jumped in and stopped a guy who was just covering up and not throwing punches.
There have been plenty of MMA fights I’ve seen in the past few years where I think a guy couldn’t answer a ten count if given one or at least wouldn’t be able to pass the check and walk a few steps after a knockdown but was allowed to continue on because he locked the other guy up in his guard.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah, the jumping guard thing usually saves a defeated fighter often.
I saw clips of Kltichsko vs Shannon Briggs . . . everybody dropped the ball.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
If you can defend from your guard, then you’re probably okay enough to continue.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
After being KO’ed by Ellenberger, Jake Shields was still able to attempt to take down the referee.
Also see Kimbo Slice attack a referee after being dropped.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Examples that some times the fighter is probably not OK and is risking further injury or damage.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Neither fighter was defending from their guard effectively.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Per the Unified Rules
The referee is the sole arbiter of a contest and is the only individual authorized to stop a contest. The referee may take advice from the ringside physician and/or the Commission with respect to the decision to stop a contest.
They were modified in 2008 and passed in 2009. You can see the newer rules here – http://www.abcboxing.com/unified_mma_rules.html
REMOVED AS A FOUL- Throwing in the towel during competition
A fighter’s corner, at the Commission’s discretion, should have the option to retire his fighter in the quickest and most efficient manner possible, during competition. A corner person having worked alongside a fighter may recognize and accept what their fighter’s capabilities are from past experience. It makes sense from a safety perspective to allow a corner to retire the fighter. If there is consideration that debris in the form of a towel entering the ring or cage may contribute to a disruption or confusion in the contest, then colored towels or special towels might be a consideration to be used.
good to see that.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 1:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Welp mah bad
Looks like the UFC has some website updating to do
didn’t Greg Jackson call the fight off this weekend between Ferguson and Riley after Aaron had his jaw broken? i agree it should be more common in severe cases [e.g. Rothwell vs Hunt], and like you, i hope the fighters are considered a little more in those situations.
"The Glen Rice scandal is way out of line w/ the GOP's values. They're interested in fucking black people by the millions, not one at a time"
by Victor Rodriguez on Sep 27, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
In context:
That wasn’t because he was injured or hurt, that was because he was an out of shape heavyweight fighting in high altitude.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
exactly.
Bjj can maim and kill in seconds or cause no permanent damage . Punches to the head always cause damage.
Bjj and wrestling to a lesser degree require far more technique then boxing. Boxing is more athletic than technical. Imho. It takes a great deal of technique, but without speed,endurance and power you can only go so far.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 12:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yet mma is animalistic and boxing is science.
I love them all. It’s just a silly way of looking at it.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 12:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
which is why i need for someone in the New York state legislature to explain why grappling competitions are legal in the state along with boxing and kickboxing competitions, yet MMA is too violent. i think the major hangup most of these people have isn’t even the violence of the sport, but the cage itself. if MMA were still normally in a ring, there might be less resistance.
"The Glen Rice scandal is way out of line w/ the GOP's values. They're interested in fucking black people by the millions, not one at a time"
by Victor Rodriguez on Sep 27, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Totally!

Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
tank was the first ufc fighter to wear gloves. he wasnt doing it for the benefit of his opponents i assure you.
Ironically gloves make the sport more dangerous, not less dangerous. It’s just an illustion of safety people that don’t know what they are looking at cling to.
Plus they are a major disadvantage for bjj guys.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 12:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I remember one of the Mark Kerr WVC fights
Mark seemed to hurt his hands hitting someone on the ground, so he went to elbows. The commentators stated that this is a common Vale Tudo tactic to avoid breaking hands on ground strikes since the elbows ain’t break so easily.
Mark Kerr was a scary, scary dude.
I think it’d be very very interesting if an organization tried a no-gloves form of MMA. Similar ruleset, just no gloves. I’m sure it’d be too risky injury wise for any fighters to want to compete under that ruleset though.
Aside from the broken hands...
I can’t help but think that there would be far more fights stopped due to cuts.
This would happen
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Sep 27, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Punching someone is surprisingly risky in an actual fight. The thai clinch is effective against an unarmed opponent because (like you said) it’s harder to break your knees and/or elbows in a fight.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
i was taught to throw my hooks with an open hand for this very reason.
A hook often shatters your hand if its not wrapped and you land on the little knuckles.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 12:26 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
that’s precisely why Bas Rutten used palm strikes in bare knucle tournaments in Japan. strangely enough the bare knuckle fights were actually safer because there were less head punches thrown even when they were allowed.
a lot of people forget that the larger gloves used in boxing are only to protect the boxer’s hands, not the opponent’s head.
"The Glen Rice scandal is way out of line w/ the GOP's values. They're interested in fucking black people by the millions, not one at a time"
by Victor Rodriguez on Sep 27, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I was taught to 'turn the hook over'
Kind of a like a sambo casting punch
"To me, the function and duty of a quality human being is the sincere and honest development of one's potential." - Bruce Lee
by Genki Sudo's Choreographer on Sep 27, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
the casting punch = the punch that breaks fedors hand every fight?
To each their own.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 8:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Haha, good point sir
"To me, the function and duty of a quality human being is the sincere and honest development of one's potential." - Bruce Lee
by Genki Sudo's Choreographer on Sep 28, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
bjj guys sure as hell would love it!!!
No gloves = Marcelo Garcia new UFC w.w. champ.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 12:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
I can just imagine Garcia’s record being all guillotines, probably at least half of them technical submissions because his opponent was like “No way can he get a guillotine from this angle like this, I’m safe right? Ri—uurghh”
by Pyrgz Krum on Sep 27, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
remeber he used to be " The Human Backpack"
He would have a lot of Rnc wins as well.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 12:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
lol thats what i did on my day off yesterday.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 12:56 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Melton Bowen
was the first to wear open finger gloves in UFC 4, but your larger point still stands—-they’re for hand protection only and allow you to hit harder.
by Theagenes on Sep 27, 2011 3:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
cool
Thanks for the knowledge :-)
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 4:54 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Go watch early UFCs aside from a few TMA fighters it wasnt that far away from a street fight
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by Papercut Elbow on Sep 27, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Ya equating mma with street fighting is really disrespectful. It dismisses the sport entirely by saying that. The last thing fans of mma want, and promoters I’m sure, is people equating street fighting with mma. This isn’t some backyard brawl with no rules and no referees. It’s a legitimate sport with rules, regulations, referees, commission oversight, etc.
All sports have rules, and many sports have guys that break rules whether intentionally or unintentionally.
(See my response to DK_Monster)
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
What does breaking the rules have to do with anything? I don’t care if you can see why they might not like the sport. Great, they don’t have to like it. They can never watch a second of it. However calling mma street fighting, or human cock fighting, is without question an insult and is without question wrong. Ya people have gotten their arms broken but it’s not something that happens once an event, it’s rare. I’m confused by how a big fan of mma like you say you are does not recognize that. People equating mma with street fighting is one of the reasons it has had trouble getting sanctioned across the globe.
Yes, those events are rare but when it happens . . . it can easily turn people away from the sport.
Is it fair to state that some people will:
- think MMA is very brutal – Manny Pacquiao
- think it is street fighting – Merchant isn’t the only one
People equating mma with street fighting is one of the reasons it has had trouble getting sanctioned across the globe.
Oh come on, I am personally not doing anything to get MMA sanctioned in NY. But I still love MMA. I doubt you or anyone else on this blog are working as hard as Zuffa to make that dream come true. I’m fine with people who do not appreciate MMA and don’t want to see it on their television or in their state.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem is that line of thinking is not logical when compared to other excepted combat sports.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I have honestly no idea what you are talking about. I’m not trying to be rude or anything but I just don’t understand what point, or points, you’re trying to make. As I explained, I do not care if it turns him away form the sport. I care that he ignorantly equates mma with street fighting, which it is clearly not. Of course some people think mma is brutal or that it is street fighting but for someone who works in boxing to perpetuate that stigma about mma is ridiculous.
I’m fine with people not wanting to watch mma just as I’m fine with them not enjoying the same movies, books or TV shows as I do. However, I am not fine with mma being illegal in certain states when boxing, football, and other dangerous sports are perfectly legal.
Fair enough.
Let’s just hope that Merchant is not in a position of power or influence where he can affect laws pertaining to MMA.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
He’s not and won’t ever be.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Did you hear what Dana said to this guy
I think in the context of the response he was well spoken and made his point. Yeah he took shots at the sport but so has Dana in the past at boxing. He took shots at him saying he is to old and all of this stuff. I love this guy personally for the exact reason everyone seems to be hating on him. He does not care for all that sponser shit and small talk he goes right in there and asks the hard questions. Between the two Dana came off as a dick and immature swearing and all this stuff. Merch on the other hand made his point and took his shots in a calm manner
by Mark Colemans Takedown coach on Sep 27, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I see what you’re saying but the problem is Dana commented on Merchant performing badly at his job. Merchant in turn insulted an entire sport rather than one man.
It would be like if you said “pcusick13 is a moron and sucks at his job. he misses deadlines and should be fired.” and I responded “Hey give Mark Coleman’s Takedown Coach credit, anyone who can make a lot of money doing that pathetic job should be happy.”
I would be insulting not just you but anyone else who has your job. In this case Merchant didn’t really insult Dana White, he insulting the entire sport of mma.
It’s not like this was a vicious attack on the sport. He took a little jab. Oh well…
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by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Also...
let’s not pretend dana doesn’t take shots at boxing on the regular
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by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re right. I don’t mean to make it sound like he was going Bob Arum on the sport but I just find it frustrating when someone who is in the combat sports business dismisses mma as Merchant did. It’s one thing from someone who follows no combat sports and is only a ball and stick type sports fan/commentator but I’d like to think you could rely on the combat sports community for a little more knowledge than that. He doesn’t have to like mma but equating it to street fighting is just foolish.
Of course he is going to take a little shot at MMA
He grew up with boxing which as a professional sport has been around way long then MMA. He loves boxing and grew up in the sport. Boxing has been dying for sometime now and i am sure Merch is aware of this. MMA has much to do with that downfall. If some young hot shot promoter was talking shit about my sport in the past and then me i would totally take a shot at his. Why does Dana even comments on boxing is beyond me. Its like a football owner coming out and talking shit about baseball or a baseball player. Its none of his business and i am sure he has enough problems in the UFC to deal with then commenting on boxing and calling for a guy to get fired. He is not a fan he is a owner and as such needs to start acting like one. He will learn this quick once the UFC hits Fox and many more eyes and TV execs will be watching and keeping a close eye. Its time to grow up Uncle Dana the days of spike and your loud mouth are done
by Mark Colemans Takedown coach on Sep 27, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana White’s doesn’t take shots at the sport of boxing, but rather the institution of boxing. He’s been careful to do so.
“Boxing is a fun sport. When the right guys are fighting, you’re going to want to watch it. When boxing has exciting fighters, boxing will do well.”
http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/news/324488/Dana-White-Real-fight-fans-love-fights-boxing-or-MMA/
by M.Sphinx on Sep 27, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Still my point stands
He has no business doing so as an owner of a huge organization he cannot be calling for people to get fired and such . He has to start acting with a certain class and the same goes for Merch to a lesser extent. The days of saying fuck and all this other crap he does promoting the “Dana White” Character are done and as a fan i am getting tired of it. As a fan of MMA and the UFC i am sick of seeing Dana act like this it makes the whole sport look bad in the publics eyes because the face of the sport comes across as a fouled mouth immature teenager
by Mark Colemans Takedown coach on Sep 27, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions
i really doubt that anyone in the boxing world in any position of influence is going to start listening to Dana Fucking White of all people, bro. i don’t really care that he has a foul mouth and i like his frankness and openness. i just don’t think it’s a character a la Vince McMahon as you seem to view him.
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by Victor Rodriguez on Sep 27, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Larry Merchant should have been fired years ago
The guy is sooo depressing during the fights and kills the mood with his depressive rants and negative bullshit. He also likes to complain a lot when he thinks a fight is boring or not “entertaining” by his unrealistic standards.
Having him commentate Bernard Hopkins or Klitschko fights is some of the most horrendous torture you can endure. He makes you want to jump out a window with his whining.
Also I am sick to my stomach in the way he almost got an orgasm when Roy Jones got KO’d for the first time and the way he rejoiced with malice when Vernon Forrest got Tko’d vs Mayorga
by Mohammedini Hussein on Sep 27, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you might be taking this a bit too seriously
It’s good to see someone stand up to Floyd in any way. How can anyone feel that actually threatened Floyd, it was obviously an of color remak made in the heat of the moment.
I don’t agree with his take on MMA, but he certainly has the right to think that way. Likening MMA to streetfighting is a far cry from Bob Arum calling mma fighters homosexual skinheads. He is an old school boxing guy, it would be more of a story if he actually liked MMA.
If only you would put this kind of effort into a campaign to rid UFC broadcasts of Mike Goldberg, we would be simpatico.
by Anton Chigurh on Sep 27, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
seriously...thank you.
goldberg needs to go.
by Elron Hubburd on Sep 27, 2011 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions
unqualified?
no announcer in mma can touch what lampley and merchant/kellerman does. mma has goldberg & bruce buffer. come on… really?
by Elron Hubburd on Sep 27, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions
You're right
He is 80 years old and unfortunately HBO and boxing look and sound like they are too. His comments about MMA is obviously the sound of an old dried up close minded moron. If you ask him he probably still listens to record and watches reruns of “I love Lucy”.
You got some ’splainin to doooo..
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by iiowyn on Sep 27, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
My dad is 62 and used to be a boxer in his youth, but he appreciates MMA. He preferred Pride though, too much wrestling in the UFC (and he hates GSP with a passion, I never dared to show him a Fitch fight though, I don’t want to alienate him forever).
by spectaa on Sep 27, 2011 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I’m not saying “no older guy gets the sport” but most 80 year olds aren’t going to be hot on MMA and even fewer if they’ve been deeply involved in boxing their whole life.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
My dad's 72
loves MMA, and used to love watching boxing. I think it’s a closed mind thing, not always an age thing.
I don't think it has anything to do with closed-mindedness(?)
just personal preference. I don’t like Football, Basketball or other teamsports because they’re boring to me, not because I’m closed-minded.
Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!
by SentientAndroid on Sep 27, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
When I say close-mindedness
I meant in reference to a pre-disposed opinion based on an out-dated view, and not personal experience or informed knowledge. I understand if you watch football a few times, and don’t like it, but just hearing about football and deciding it’s barbaric or stupid based on archaic or slanted input is close-minded.
i disagree
i mean my dads 50 and enjoys mma because he was a wrestler and feels like theres finally a pro sport for wrestlers to go to
but i always thought his viewpoint was very uncommon though among that age group, as a whole the baby boomer generation isn’t all that high on the sport.
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I think if more 50 year old sports fans
actually watched MMA, they’d have a higher percentage of fans. Most over-50’s I know have never seen a match.
Maybe he'd "get it" if he was 50 years younger and kicking ass
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I'm not mad at Larry Merchant.
I understand where’s he coming from. A totally different era in American history.
I can understand how watching a fighter break his opponent’s arm is not appealing. Yes, it doesn’t happen often in MMA but . . . yeah, the sport is beyond brutal.
I agree with Merchant on his take concerning fighters that highly regard in MMA with less than 10 – 15 fights. Yes, I’m still baffled about Lesnar’s ranking prior to his fights against Carwin and Velasquez.
And can we stop dissing Merchant because of his age? He’s very capable at doing his job. Yes, he has personal issues (blatantly disrespectful) with Mayweather, Tyson and I recall him throwing shade towards Roy Jones Jr., but at least he’s not trying to kiss ass.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
De La Hoya was the other big one with Merchant run-ins.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions
De La Hoya, Hopkins, Jones, Mayweather. Merchant doesn’t like a fighter who will argue a point with him. He’s an annoying, condescending old man who needs to be put out to pasture. Mayweather was being courteous to Merchant till about the fourth argumentative question, Merchant is a cantankerous old man who shouldn’t be involved anymore.
Ha ha i will never forget the reaction of Chavez when Merchants suggestion he’d quit was translated to him. Merchant was about 5 seconds from getting his neck wrung.
You got to admit, that makes Merchant a great part of the show.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Just another cranky, bitchy, bitter old man. I’m ok with his shitty take on mma, but don’t want to hear it.
I don’t even get why boxing fans would want to listen to his stupidity.
by troyd on Sep 27, 2011 11:28 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
6-2 indeed...
I have to agree with that. 6-2 is not a world champion record.
Mma fighters don’t play the “fight 60 cans to pad tour record” bullshit, its not comparable. A 6-2 champ in mma has fought more top 10 ranked fighters than a 60-0 champ in boxing
by troyd on Sep 27, 2011 11:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Believe what you will. A fight is a fight.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Sort of
A fight is a fight
A one sided beating where one opponent never stood a chance isn’t really a fight. It’s just a beating.
Well…i’ve covered that the whole “all their records are padded” thing isn’t true and the reasons for bringing guys along a certain way thing. But people stick to what they believe out of ignorance.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions
^ this
And let’s not act like fighters in MMA are not brought along.
Velasquez, Carwin and JDS did not have a harsh schedule like Brock Lesnar.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Brock product
Brock is just a product of the Media. No one should get multiple title shots like he did and would still be getting if not for his unfortunatly health issue.
until the Cain fight, nobody had been able to dominate him that much for that long. media hype or not, the guy is a threat that got thrown into the deep end from the get go and never faced an opponent in the UFC that wasn’t a top 10 guy. he does massive PPV and is a top level athlete that has a chance against anyone. THAT’s why he gets promised title shots that by the way, he has to fight for.
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by Victor Rodriguez on Sep 27, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Link?
Missed that one.
"A belt only covers two inches of your ****and the rest you need to back up on your own." Royce Gracie (allegedly...I just read it somewhere and thought it was cool for my sig!)
I’m not going to go searching for it right now. But let’s take Mayweather. 42-0. Fought guys with losing records twice in his career. Both in 2007 when he fought TEN times. In the second full year of his career he was fighting guys with records like 39-6, 38-1-1. In that second full year he won a major title and beat multiple top 10 fighters.
Every fight in the early stages of a promising fighter’s career has a purpose. Getting them ring time, getting them to face a southpaw, facing a guy with power. You have to teach a guy how to fight in a sport with this much punching to the head or else they’re going to be wrecked by their second year. With MMA, there are less fighters and more variables so when the best boxers in the world are facing stiff tests in their 2nd or 3rd year as a pro it’s not really different than MMA except that the learning process in boxing for the first 1-2 years involves a lot more in-ring work.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
And let’s not forget that there is a serious filtering system during a boxer’s amateur career.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Ok, so you are saying that the learning process of a boxer requires more actual matches than the learning process of an MMA fighter? And that one reason for this is that there are more variables in MMA? I don’t understand what this means. If there are more variables, wouldn’t that mean that an MMA fighter needs more matches in order to learn the sport properly?
No, what i’m saying is that the learning process for a boxer involves a lot of fights early in their careers. It’s easier to get fights against the correct kind of opponents you need to face.
If a mixed martial artist fought ten times in a year, he’s at risk of dropping fights because of the variables involved and it’s hard to make sure that you’re fighting the kind of guy you should be fighting to learn at that point.
The differences in the sport lead to a different process of bringing a guy along in terms of number of fights and reason behind them.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions
Covered it where? I was thinking Merchant might have a bit of a point there, but I don’t know a whole lot about boxing.
Depends on how the 6-2 record comes about
If you’re fighting great opponents from your very first fight, a 6-2 record is great. There’s nothing wrong with a 6-2 fighter being a champion if he earned it, any more than it’s wrong that the Green Bay Packers went 10-6 last year and won the Super Bowl.
by MichaelDavidSmith on Sep 27, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Again, a sport with a playoff system and scheduled season makes it difficult to compare the two.
I agree that there’s nothing wrong with the record if you’re fighting good fighters. but to someone completely outside the sport, seeing a guy lost 25% of his fights and is the “best in the world” is going to be confusing because there isn’t a context LIKE a playoff system
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by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh, I definitely agree that MMA schedules are not like NFL schedules
But the point I’m trying to illustrate is more about quality of competition. Boxing wouldn’t have a 1-0 fighter taking on an opponent with the boxing equivalent of Kid Yamamoto’s credentials, but that’s who Joe Warren fought in his second pro fight. And that’s because in MMA you could be one of the best in the world in wrestling, as Joe Warren was, and transition those skills into MMA rather quickly. That makes MMA fundamentally different from boxing.
(I’m avoiding using Brock Lesnar and Frank Mir as examples because they’re such polarizing figures that people get sidetracked when those two are mentioned on this topic.)
To get back to a football comparison, I think what Merchant is saying would be akin to saying, “Ndamukong Suh was already being talked about as the best defensive tackle in the NFL after only playing a few NFL games. I don’t get a so-called sport in which you can only play a few games and be called the world’s best.”
And that would be a dumb thing to say.
by MichaelDavidSmith on Sep 27, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, I think comparing different sports in such a direct way is always a problem. Larry just doesn’t understand how MMA records look and what a guy like Warren’s record mean, just like many MMA fans go “oh, floyd is 42-0, he fought a bunch of bums”
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by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing is with MMA, you can come in from a different background, and kickstart a career if you were dominant in most notably wrestling, BJJ, kickboxing, etc. You obviously can’t do the same with boxing, you have to work yourself up there in that specific discipline. So I think that also plays a part as to why it’s easier to be champion in MMA early as opposed to boxing.
by Horselover Fat on Sep 27, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t agree. How many major championships per weight class are in boxing as opposed to MMA. In MMA there is only really one title in each weight class that really means anything.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, okay. It all depends on your definition of “major championship” I guess. If you can find me a major boxing champion who won his title with a 3-1 record, I’m all ears. And lets not pretend like there isn’t a huge amount of titles in MMA too: KOTC, MFC, Shark Fights, BAMMA, Shooto, Superior Challenge, XMMA, M-1 Global, Tachi Palace, DEEP, Pancrase, and so on.
by Horselover Fat on Sep 27, 2011 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree 100 percent! Glad to see somebody gets it.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
All those titles mean nothing really. The only titles outside of the UFC titles that had any meaning or prestige were probably the Pride titles.
And that 6-0 wrestler who is the champion of your promotion may have only been doing MMA for a couple of years and be champion, but he has been probably been wrestling for eight or more years, and has far more experience than his record is going to show.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
And to boxing fans, what matters is who is the best, not which alphabet title guys hold. Titles matter to the fighters more than the fans.
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by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Titles matter to the fighters more than the fans.
Even then I don’t think it’s for the prestige of the title as much as the payday to get it and defend it etc. Boxing media has done a good job sort of pushing titles to the side and just plainly saying who the best at each weight is.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Sep 27, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
UFC
UFC was not a “major championship” before the end of Pride.
LOL.
That is a dumb thing to say.
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by Zachary Kater on Sep 27, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
But
has there been any UFC champ besides Brock who has/had anything less than 8-10 wins at least?
Just current here:
BW – Cruz became champ with a record of 15-1
FW – Aldo with a record of 16-1
LW – Edgar,12-1
WW – GSP, 13-1 (the first time)
MW – Anderson, 19-4
LHW – Jones, 13-1
HW – Cain, 9-0
Those are’nt really far-fetched records for mma, UFC world champions. Cain may be stretching it, but that’s about it. It’s also a little different when 90% of the best fighters all fight under the same house. Now if a guy was 9-0 in a Bodog or Bamma organization and is recognized as being a world champ, that’s a bit different.
Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!
by SentientAndroid on Sep 27, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I respect Brock Lesnar. He fought Frank Mir in his second fight ever, Heath Herring in his third, Randy Couture in his fourth, Mir again, then Carwin, then Cain.
He is much more of a champion than a guy with a 20-0 record who hasn’t fought anybody.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
agreed
Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!
by SentientAndroid on Sep 27, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Miguel Torres is 38-4
but his first 33 opponents are in the red on Wikipedia (yes, wiki lol).
Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!
by SentientAndroid on Sep 27, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Red on wikipedia makes me giggle for some reason.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
It's all good. Merchant, like other old as fuck curmudgeons, will die soon.
Seriously though, I don’t expect my parents to change and they’re only in their 60’s and they do and say some strange shit. He’s an old man from a bygone era. That’s about all there is to that.
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wow what an ignorant fuck
that guy has no respect to nothing. all he does is talking shit even in boxing business.
i think mayweather went too far but i understand why. it wasn’t his first time, merchant talked shit when mayweather fought with one injured hand (cant remember which fight it was) and he said mayweather doesnt even know how to box.
and this now? dana wasnt talking shit about boxing he was talking about merchant’s attitude and now he talks shit about mma? hes too stupid and too disrespectful to be a commentator
anyway my point is hes too old and has no respect towards anything. i doubt that HBO will actually fire him but i hope they do.
Matt "The Terror" Serra!!!!
Yep.
Considering the venom DFW spewed at him, I’d say it was a pretty level-headed response. Don’t have a problem with what he said. And yes MMA basically started out as organized “street fighting”, and to some extent it still is I guess (depending on how you see it), but just with more rules of course.
by Horselover Fat on Sep 27, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep and he has a point about Brock becoming a champion.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
You sure are a Brock hater!
He has good wrestling and he pulled of an arm triangle because he is learning. Isn’t that mixing martial arts together(wrestling and JJ)? So I guess he is a Mixed Martial Artist. He is just in the learning process.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
Not a Brock hater at all. I just feel that it’s somewhat of a black eye that a guy that is learning the sport can be champion. And I know, we are all always learning! You know what I mean. Brock is in the infant stages of the sport and he still won the championship. The guy is a part time fighter.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Well..
MMA is still in its relative infancy too.. It just does not have the kind of lineage/history, in terms of being a pro sports, that boxing have, which makes room for cases like Brock’s.
6-2 was he talking about Brock ?
I’ve never understood the complaint about o these guys have more than 3 losses they must be all utter shits.
Twitter @MaZZM
http://www.mazzznet.com/
That’s because he’s used to a so-called sport where you get to cherry pick your opponents and fight a bunch of cans to get some huge undefeated record.
i think the point there is more “you’re supposed to be the best in the world but lose 25% of your fights?”
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
When those fights are against top competition, what’s the shame?
In boxing you only have to deal with one form of attack, strikes. It’s only logical to think that guys are going to lose more often when they have opponents who specialize in something they’re not necessarily elite at.
You could be the greatest striker in the history of mma and still lose fights to superior grapplers. If you’re the greatest boxer in the history of boxing, you’re probably not going to lose often.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not saying he is right. I’m saying that’s how he sees it…as an outsider.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I think there is something too that
It is all about consistent performance
Head conductor of the Charles Oliveira hype train.
It probably looks funny to them. Brock Lesnar, 5-1 hw champion and considered #1 hw in the world (at the time).
Brock is basically a black eye for the sport!
Not much art in what he does! Sorry but it’s the truth. Guy was a champion in the sport I love and it bummed me out.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
There was enough art for me, but my problem was that I never at any time thought he was the best at his weight class.
You’re not the only one.
Lesnar ranked at #1 was a joke.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Not that terrible really.
People seemed to really be convinced that Brock was a wrestling juggernaut who could take down and control anyone. He had pretty good wrestling technique (that stockade from half-guard on Mir was boss as hell) and seemed to be improving at a remarkable rate. That obliteration of Frank Mir did much to emphasize the point – able to control his opponents and able to finish opponents with ground strikes? Whoa. The Shane Carwin fight took all that sheen off very quickly, and everyone once again realized “Oh right, Brock is human and stuff”.
Yes, great wrestler but not a mixed martial artist. The guy is a formidable opponent because he is huge! We saw how easy he was dissected. My problem is that he became a champ with next to zero experience. I feel that it was a black eye for the sport. I had friends saying a WWE is the champ of you sport etc…
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
...
great wrestler but not a mixed martial artist.
If you’re a great wrestler you ARE a great martial artist.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Sep 27, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Even after Lesnar defeated Mir . . . I simply said to myself, he didn’t fight Carwin, Velasquez or JDS. Hey fans get hyped of fighters and makes all sorts of claims.
In MMA, it is VERY possible to face the champion before truly proving yourself in a weight class. Dan Hardy. BJ Penn at welterweight (arguable). But you some times you get guys like Fitch, Florian (at lightweight), Maynard, Edgar, Velasquez, etc.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Additionally, the HW division is huge. Brock originally had to cut to make 265. He could outweigh an opponent by almost 40 pounds. Talk about an advantage.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Make a top ten list of the greatest heavyweights of all time. Most of them are mid to lower sized heavyweights.
A lot of heavyweight boxers would be fighting at LHW if they were mixed martial artist. There is a reason that LHW has been MMA’s premiere division for a long time.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
ahaha, you’re a wiser man than I.
After I saw Brock implode Mir’s face I was like “Oh man Brock is a BEEAASSTTT how can anyone stop him!? They should make a cruiserweight division for all the mid size HWs because Brock is basically cheat codes.” Whatever, MMA is basically the first sport I’ve truly cared about and I hadn’t learned the subtle art of cynicism/realism yet.
I was pretty happy to see myself proven wrong, though.
by Pyrgz Krum on Sep 27, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
My point is that Merchant made a point about us having champs that really haven’t fought and that are part time. I agree with him for as much as it hurts. It just makes the sport I love look Mickey Mouse.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
brock was the champion of the best heavyweight division
he won the belt off of randy and defended it successfully 2 times against top competition
and in the meantime fedor lost against a guy whose a fringe top 10 fighter at his best (yea people ranked him #3 but cmon fabricio werdum has never and will never be a top 5 fighter in any weightclass)
who would you have said was the #1 heavyweight after the carwin win and fedors loss?
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
I’m not gonna defend Fedor. He should of fought at 205. But it’s even worse that Brock beat our champions!! He is a part time fighter with only a college wrestling base! He took up MMA as a challenge. He is not a mmartist.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
well i mean yea if you wanna go that route i get it
but according to wikipedia lesnar started training in early 06 and he won the belt in late 08
thats about 2 and a half years of mma training, and the beloved jon jones won a belt in about 3 years of training
the only difference is that brock didnt beat brad bernard, anthony pina, and carlos eduado to boost his win total
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
by milk72 on Sep 27, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I consider JJ a mixed martial artist! Brock won fair and square and defended but when he fought couture I found it a little sad.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Fedor would be less successful at Light Heavyweight. Quality light heavyweights are more technically skilled than most average heavyweights.
But that’s a whole other story.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
The game has evolved and Fedor has not.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
fedor relied on speed, his chin, and his calm demeanor
his speed has fallen off a bit and now hes simply too small, too weak and his technique hasnt evolved
however if the 26 year old fedor who chilled in Nogs guard and beat the piss outta him comes back today and fights any of the top heavyweights i think theres maybe only one or two fights he loses
and what champions from 03 could come in and do that to any of todays fighters? the answer is absolutely nobody
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Agree but you may be giving too many props to Fedor. Guys now are more skilled.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Anyone not name Brock Lesner.
He obviously doesn’t like Brock so he wants to downgrade anything he has done by saying he isn’t a Mixed Martial Artist, He shouldn’t have been number 1, He got a title shot to early, He’s bigger than everyone else, and anything else he can come up with. But I bet he doesn’t have a problem with GSP cutting a bunch of weight to make WW or any other fighter that is bigger on fight night.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
If I was 10 years younger I would kick your ass for disrespecting me! Actually I do think fighters should be weighed just prior to fighting. It would take all the cutting out of the game.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
weigh ins are fine the way they are
if we’re gonna change anything i think heavyweight shouldnt have a weight limit. if you come to fight at 300 lbs your totally fucked anyway
235-250 is the ideal weight for a heavyweight, it provides the ideal strength, cardio and size to be the absolute best
in my mind overeem needs to slim down a bit and lose some bulk, brock should stay at about 260 and carwin needs to lose around 15 pounds and get to 250
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Pretty much agree with you but if you come in weighing 235 and fit and I’m 265 and fit, all things being equal you are fucked. While in other classes you won’t have that problem.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean if you were 10 years younger you would get your ass kicked for trying? jk
Why so every fight can end with two exhausted fighters barely able to stand up? There is no way it will stop fighters from cutting.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
Maybe. I just don’t think you would see as many radical weight cuts. But who knows.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess being the UFC champion grants him the title of number one, but was he really the best? I didn’t think so. But I can tell you that I thought Cain and Carwin and Overeem could beat Brock (wasn’t entirely sold on JDS yet). Obviously I wasn’t 100% right, but just to say I thought there were a bunch of guys better than him. I wasn’t sure about JDS’s wrestling back then.
werdum
Brock was a myth I never bought into.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 2:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If by art you a hulking beast then yes? I find him very entertaining but in no way is he a martial artist!
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
wrestling is a martial art
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Yes, but where is his mixed part. He is one dimensional and became champ!
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Ground and pound is a martial art onto itself.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions
One that essentially had to be invented with the introduction of MMA. I can’t think of a single traditional martial arts system that shows proper ground striking technique. Maybe I haven’t been looking hard enough?
your right
it was invented by mark coleman (basically)
the fact remains though that in the past 20 years the knowledge we have about martial arts has exponentially increased and thats solely due to mma
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
no its not.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 3:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well, he is the God father of ground and pound for a reason..
and that’s cause he popularised it in the modern era..
Testify
Love Mark Coleman. Ground and pound is the most exciting finish in MMA for me. All my fav fighters used ground and pound brutally. Best image in MMA a great ground and pound fighter in a BJJ experts guard raining down elbows and punches and headbutts but that is back in the day lol. Loved watching Mark and Tito doing it and watching Cheal do it all the time. To bad he does not have good submission defence becasue if he was the champ i would be the ultimate Fanboy
by Mark Colemans Takedown coach on Sep 27, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
fun facts.
- of bjj black belts tito ortiz has beat.- 1 Vitor belfort.
- of bjj black belts Coleman has beat.- 2
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 6:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
that was suppose to be " # of "
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 6:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
bjj
Rickson Gracie was brutal from top.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Sep 27, 2011 2:32 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
One that is pretty easy when you outweigh your opponent by 40 pounds.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Name one guy Lesnar beat on size alone.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
nah he beat him with a right hand
the fight was very close before that and brock wasnt really getting the edge on couture due to his size alone
thats a fight i wish went all 5 rounds and didnt get stopped due to a flash ko (which is still an advantage boxing has over this sport)
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Couture was pretty timid and it wasn’t because Brock is small.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Yep
I’m sure it looked funny to most of us even, but Brock is/was the exception, not the rule.
Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!
by SentientAndroid on Sep 27, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. But that is what the haters point to.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The disrespect towards our elders is dissappointing.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
Do you think he was disrespecting May?
Asking tough questions is not disrespectful! Asking questions that are uncomfortable is not disrespectful!
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
^ OK, I’m not the only one who acknowledges the distinction
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions
But I don’t think it has to do with Merchant being old. I just don’t buy into the bullshit that he was disrespecting May! And maybe Merchant hasn’t given May a fair shake but the questions he was asking were very fair! And I am a huge May fan AND thought that although is was a dirty 2punch it was completely legal and he deserved the win!
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Fedornuthugger, take a second and read the comments here concerning Merchant’s age. I sense a pattern.
No argument there. Merchant has always been kind of a dick to some fighters. Mayweather is one of them, he’s not kissing Floyd’s ass – period. Yes, Mayweather won the fight legally. No argument there.
-------- I LOVE MMA MATH! GSP > Anderson Silva > Fedor
Matt Serra <> GSP > Jake Shields > Dan Henderson > Ryo Chonan > Anderson Silva > Henderson > Fedor
by VeeisAnimated on Sep 27, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Merchant at least admitted that there indeed ARE finer points of MMA.
However facetious he may have been.
the only reason why boxers have like 80-3 records is
because they have easy fights before they come up to major organizations.
for example, pacman’s record before fighting for WBC was 24-1 already
and also they fight some lower-tier level boxers even when they are in major organization.
yes i think brock was some extreme case but look at other fighters. cain was 8-0 when he fought for the title, gsp 7-0, 12-1, 15-2, and a siva 18-4. i think those records are worthy enough to get a title shot
Matt "The Terror" Serra!!!!
Records matter a lot less in MMA. Too many ways to lose, too big a talent gap amongst different organizations, and too short a window in which a fighter can make an impact. Just look at Jason Reinhardt. By his record coming into the UFC, you’d think he was a killer.
"Hi. I don't know you." - me
"Cigano punch my face...all the time." - Anderson Silva
You know the WBC isn’t a promotion…it’s a sanctioning body that hands out title shots..right?
Caring about titles is pointless.
Pacquiao’s early career is tricky because of fighting in the Philippines where the talent was all over the place so he’s fighting guys with 65 fights, then guys with 2 fights.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
i meant the title
and i think caring about titles is very important for merchant since thats pretty much what hes talking about
Matt "The Terror" Serra!!!!
Larry shits on boxing titles all the time. But the more clear definition of what the champion in MMA (UFC champ) makes it more impactful to be a champion. Or at least #1 in the world.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Another point of interest is that young boxers seem to be able to fight more often, making it easier to take the time to fight all of those different styles, mma, even at a regional level, keeps fighters from fighting as often it would seem.
by troyd on Sep 27, 2011 11:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I worked with a local gym a few years ago helping guys get fights and the process is not really good for growth. Promoters just throw you whoever they can that is in the same weight.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions
in mma or boxing. I’m assuming you mean mma, because that is how it seems. This is where boxing’s depth and long history help it. much more organized at lower levels. While I don’t want to see a guy fighting incrementally better fighters for his first 30 fights, i would like to see the regional level be at least semi organized.
The difference is that in boxing you have to bring a prospect along slowly. They have to gain ring experience and learn how to deal with different aspects of boxing. Fernando Vargas seems to be the poster boy for this.
In MMA, most athletes come from some sort of background already. Strikers that come into mma are already used to dealing with 50% of the game, and grapplers that come into MMA also are used to dealing with 50% of the game.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmmm
I don’t get a so-called sport in which you can have a 6-2 record and be called a world champion.
Well the Packers were 5-3 last year through 8 games and 14-6 once you include the playoffs.
The Giants went 103-74
The Bruins 62-34-11
Mavericks 73-30
Context my friend, context.
Not afraid to nitpick
Eh. He doesn’t understand the sport. that’s for sure. but comparing it to a season based sport with playoffs which determine a champion doesn’t really work.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah that's pretty much what I said
Context my friend, context.
MMA records are different from boxing records are different from any other sport’s records.
Not afraid to nitpick
You cant really compare MMA records to fixed season records.
Instead why not discuss how theres a whole lot of boxers with padded records. And the reason behind that is to appear more like a good fighter to the public
The MMA Garage
Check out this site for discount MMA gear.
Read through the comments, we’ve covered this.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
And by covered this, I mean talked about how it’s bullshit. The number of boxers with padded records for public appearance who were ever considered the best is…i can’t think of a single one.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Merchant was taking a jab at Brock and face it, he has a point.
Brock is a great wrestler and athlete. But not much art in his game. He basically trained for the UFC for a very short period of time and became world champion. I like to think of the sport we love as much more intricate—a mixed martial art. Brock basically busted that myth. A one dimensional guy can become champion.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 12:12 PM EDT reply actions
Maybe, but a one dimensional guy can’t stay champion.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
But the fact that he even became champ is weak. He’s just not a mixed martial artist.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
We are also talking about a guy who had the money to spend serious bank on high quality training.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Money has a lot to do with it but time is more important in my opinion. You just can’t learn and master thing that fast.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I am a total Fedor fanboy and I despise Brock, but of course Brock is a mixed martial artist. If a guy who is really good at one aspect of the sport and fair-to-poor at others isn’t a mixed martial artist, then there’s a lot of guys fighting in Strikeforce and the UFC who aren’t mixed martial artists.
I don’t think that Brock coming in and winning the title is weak. There are a lot of variables, both historical and internal to each match. If Silvia had still been champion when Brock came to the UFC, if Randy had actually fought Fedor instead of coming back, if Fedor had come to the UFC instead of Affliction, if Carwin was in shape, etc., etc. maybe things would have come out different. Brock is a great athlete, but he also benefited from coming to the UFC when the contenders available were configured just right.
That’s not a knock on Lesnar — I just mean that all champions become champions under certain circumstances, and those circumstances are part of what they’re able to accomplish. It doesn’t look weak for Lesnar to win the title the way he did, because he won it the same way all other champions do, in individual and in team sports. They are in the right place at the right time with the right opponents and they take advantage. If Brock had stayed in WWE one more year, or one year fewer, the history of MMA might be totally different.
Most prior champions are full time fighters. Brock tried to play in the NFL, did his WWE gig then decided he wanted to try MMA. Yes, great wrestler but really nothing else in my eyes. Yes, he won fair and square and defended but I just feel he isn’t a true mmartist. And yes, the stars did align for him and that’s just the way it goes.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana rattled his cage and Merchant rattled back
If we saw anything from that post fight interview, it’s that he doesn’t particularly like taking shit off of people.
I attach zero importance to what he said — not because he’s old, or because he’s a boxing guy — but because his words were clearly chosen for the exclusive purpose of annoying Dana White.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Sep 27, 2011 12:23 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
The only thing that irks me a bit is the “6-2 record and be world champion” comment. People fight, not many gimme fights, no padded records just trying to be the best to get one undisputed belt, not 3 paper belts and one legit one.
by IRodC on Sep 27, 2011 12:25 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
these old boxing guys will be dead in 10 years anyway
well maybe not bob arum, he strikes me as one of those nasty old fucks whose gonna live to be like 125 and not die cause hes just too much of a asshole
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
that's...
that’s just horrible!
lulz
Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!
by SentientAndroid on Sep 27, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think Merchant "took shots" at MMA at all.
He offered a coherent explanation of why he doesnt like it. That’s hardly criticism.
And by his own reasoning, he doesn’t understand any of the major sports. Imagine him trying to understand baseball, where the best team each year loses over 50 games. So that Larry Merchant doesn’t “get” MMA isn’treally a knock against MMA, and I think even Larry Merchant knows that.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
i think there are alot of things merchant doesnt get
like how to be a competant ring announcer, seriously the guys gotta go
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
i heard he used to be good
but im 20, hes never been anything but annoying in my lifetime
and its not even like the john madden situation who was annoying but its ok cause everybody loved him, merchant just kinda sucks
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
wow
you guys really don’t get that goldberg is the worst commentator ever. merchant’s a legend and he doesn’t give a damn who signs his checks. merchant is gangster. meanwhile, goldberg’s hawking merchandise every other minute. whole different class, like michael buffer and his frank stallone equivalent of a brother.
by Elron Hubburd on Sep 27, 2011 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Just because I like pointing out that people should really stop with the "horrible padded records" bullshit...
De La Hoya is about as much of an “image guy” as anyone in years. He also was a known talented guy based on winning an olympic gold medal.
Here’s how he started his career:
1992
Nov – 5-1-1
Dec – 13-6-0
1993
Jan – 15-6-2
Feb – 14-6-2
Mar – 23-2-2
Apr – 13-1-2
May – 15-3
Jun – 13-7-4
Aug – 27-4-1
Aug – 10-4-3 (2 weeks after previous bout)
Oct – 35-13-2
1994
Mar – 16-0 (title fight)
May – 20-0 (title defense)
Jul – 53-6-4 (move up to lightweight, title fight)
Nov – 28-3-4 (title defense)
Dec – 20-1-1 (title defense)
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 12:54 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
er...
I should point out those are the times he fought and his opponent’s records.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, JCC Jr. gets a fair amount of flak for his early record.
Can’t really think of any other well known boxers with questionable records. Ricky Hatton, perhaps?
JCC Jr. is an attraction more than a fighter. He’s not all that good but makes a lot of money so yeah. they’re totally protecting him.
Hatton’s first 3-4 years didn’t really progress in opposition very much. So yeah, he’s a good example.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Did JCC Jr. Have a long amateur career? Because it would makes sense if he didn’t.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions
He had no amateur career to speak of and turner pro at 17. The match-ups he had were logical in the circumstances, really.
Then it makes sense. He is obviously going to need more bouts to improve his skills professionally than a guy who had a good amateur career.
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
my caveat is that the record keeping for fighters records used to be all over the place, In the 90’s FIGHT FAX quit reporting the records of Oklahoma fighters because the fake name/fake record side was out of control. It’s been a long-standing problem, from before LaMotta was fighting and the mob said who was going to win many fights, through terrible padded records of guys like McNeeley, Chavez jr and others who got top fights via shady records of opponents.
But since 96, the record keeping system has been bolstered a lot by Federal mandates.
Absolutely, but it’s crazy to think the same thing wouldn’t have happened with MMA at that point in time.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Hell, look at Pride. And sooner or later the UFC is going to get rocked by a fixed fight scandal. With the increase in gambling, and the relatively low purse payouts for most fighters, it is inevitable that at some point a fighter in cahoots with bookies throws a fight.
If it can happen with refs in the modern NBA, it can happen in the UFC.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
but can the UFC hush that up the way the NBA did?
the ref scandal should have been bigger than steroids in baseball, but it sort of disappeared after a very short time
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Just because I like pointing out that people shouldn't stop with the "horrible padded records" bullshit...
I’d like to ask you who this record belongs to. The years will be removed so as to make the guessing a bit harder. Just to callback your, “The number of boxers with padded records for public appearance who were ever considered the best is…i can’t think of a single one.” statement, this boxer was both a Ring champion and fighter of the year. No using boxrec please.
year 1
Feb – 0-0
Mar – 0-0
Apr – 0-0
May – 8-17
Jul – 0-0
Sep1 – 0-0
Sep2 – 0-4
Oct – 0-0
Nov – 0-2
Dec – 1-4
year 2
Feb – 0-1
Mar – 4-11
May – 4-2
Jun1 – 0-0
Jun2 – 0-0
Jul1 – 0-0
Jul2 – 1-0
Aug1 – 0-7
Aug2 – 18-11
Sep – 27-10
Oct – 1-2
Dec – 23-18
year 3
Jan1 – 0-0
Jan2 – 0-2
Feb1 – 1-5
Feb2 – 2-3
Mar – 15-11
Apr – 9-11
May – 3-4
Jul – 8-7
Aug – 4-3
Sep – 13-28
Oct – 6-3
Dec – 6-4
Don’t get me wrong, I agree with you that the sports are different, and comparisons are pointless. And even that the idea that all these top boxers’ records are insanely padded is overstated. But even though it’s exaggerated, it’s not even close to bullshit, and you don’t disprove it by posting one boxers pro start. And even that start doesn’t help your point too much. He only had 11 club fighters and “journeymen” brought in for him to slaughter in the span of one year who would make up a mere 28% of his wins as a pro in a 16 year career? That’s not exactly gangster. It may not have been done with the intent of padding his record, but in the end… Doesn’t it do the same thing?
You start by just using the beginning opponents’ records of DLH, a gold medalist who had over 200 amateur fights and could go in a bit tougher than many have. Just looking at some of DLH’s early opponents’ records isn’t too bad. But one doesn’t need to try very hard to see the strength of schedule was nil. Looking at their actual careers and who they beat to get their records leads to some ugly sights. His first pro opponent lost to a 7-39 fighter who was on a 17 fight losing streak. I guess DLH’s camp must have thought he offered a valuable experience that DLH didn’t encounter in his 228 amateur fights. Hell, look at Jeff “I’m Easily The Worst Mayweather” Mayweather’s 23-2. Only six of the 23 wins were against fighters with winning records. Of those six, three had five or fewer total fights. Valenzuela was a shot fighter who had lost five of his last six, and wouldn’t get any better. But at least he’d also get to be a sacrificial lamb for Shane Mosley.
You’ve probably guessed who the holder of that record I posted is. But just in case, here’s a hint. He made the cover of Sports Illustrated and the cover said he may be the world’s best fighter.
lolz
oh grandpa.
"A guy in Texas came up to me and told me ‘Frye you're not mixed martial arts, you're no holds barred’, and I said you're god damn right partner." ~ Don Frye
you ever tried to talk to your grandpa about mma?
interesting conversation to say the least
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Good for Merchant.
I really don’t see what Merchant said in his response that warrants such bile and hatred sent his way. Seemed like a perfectly reasonable, calm, and gentlemanly response.
Some of the comments here are rather disturbing and make me feel somewhat ashamed to be a member of this community.
I specializes in grammar fail.
Usually I have to defend MMA against boxing fans but it is just as sad to see how little most MMA fans know about boxing
1. Dana has every right to criticize Larry’s behavior and performance. But does anyone notice the irony in him calling him disrespectful and embarrassing and then following it by calling Merchant 102-years old, senile, and out of his mind? Way to demonstrate how it is done, Merchant’s response was pretty respectful, all things considered. But hey, he did lavish love on MMA so obviously he was dissing it.
2. As Brookhouse has pointed out (as I have in previous threads as well) those boxing records aren’t really padded. Sure there might be some showcase fights in there but boxing has evolved over the century of Marquess of Queensberry Rules, AAU, and NBA. There is a great filtering and development process that goes into making a boxing, redefined over the decades. Fighters come out of the amateurs and are given a winnable fight to get their feet wet and confidence up. They are then given a new challenge at every step to work on speed, defense, stances, defending against a good left hook, how to handle power, etc. If they don’t go through this process you can ruin a young fighter completely. For an example see what happened to Luis Resto’s career when he was thrown to the wolves early.
But after that development phase where are the cans? Manny is 53-3-2 and his last 20 matches have all been against world class top 10 ranked fighters. For the last decade Mayweather has only been facing the best fighters in the world.
Maybe Brock would have benefited on getting a chance to work on his fight game more before getting thrown into the deep end? Maybe if he faced a few strikers to work up his confidence against he wouldn’t have looked so lost against Carwin and Cain?
3. If you are worried about all the champions focus on RING magazine’s #1. There, now you have a champ in each division.
by John Nash on Sep 27, 2011 1:39 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I actually suggest focusing on the Bad Left Hook #1 since Ring was bought by Golden Boy and has already had a few slightly questionable moments.
Scott watches more boxing than anyone on Earth as far as I can tell and (knowing him since we were kids) I know how obsessive he is about things like doing his best on rankings.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 27, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
WTF
Ring was bought by Golden Boy
I totally missed this! That’s fucked.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Sep 27, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions
i agree with what most of what your saying
except point #3, over half those belts are vacant. i’m a mere casual boxing fan so can anyone explain to me how the only legitimate rankings in the sport dont have champions in a solid amount of the weight classes?
and honestly is there a need for a 105lb weight class?
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
Maybe Brock would have benefited on getting a chance to work on his fight game more before getting thrown into the deep end? Maybe if he faced a few strikers to work up his confidence against he wouldn’t have looked so lost against Carwin and Cain?
This is a very good point. I think Brock was granted privileges he didn’t earn, but I haven’t thought much about how those privileges might have screwed Brock himself in the long term. At the same time, I think that Lesnar is more interested in the dollars than in his long-term career prospects. Being pushed to the front of the pack made him more money, to this point, than he would have made being brought along slowly.
Additionally, if he would of been brought up slowly he may not of made it to the top!
His weaknesses would have been exposed earlier.
by Fedornuthugger on Sep 27, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
UFC NEEDS more commentators like Merchant!!!
instead of nutt-huggin rogan and goldberg. it’s like those guys are afraid to say anything negative about UFC cause uncle dana might whip them?! it’s a shame when a 80 year old is more colorful than guys who consider themselves “edgy”
i prefer the world champ’s @ 6-2 in MMA rather than the world champs of boxing who build their undefeated records largely in part on guys that are 3-12
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Sep 27, 2011 5:20 PM EDT reply actions
On an unrelated note...
I was playing Fight Night Champion today, and I had an 1-2 record in 3 bouts I had played today, but two of those opponents were some of the biggest jerks I had played against. In my lone win, the SOB I was playing against picked Mike Tyson right as the boxer select screen came on. I picked Muhammad Ali to fight him (he pushed me to it) since Tyson is a cheap ass character. And when the fight started he was throwing low blows and headbutts right out of the gates. It didn’t throw off my plan so I kept jabbing him on the outside, until he got rocked, and got a knockdown in the first round. I kept doing this until the third, where he got hurt again, so I went in after him. But right as I was about to throw a left hook that would have ended the fight, he threw a headbutt that got the ref to stop the fight and deduct a point, but he had recovered by the time the fight was restarted. I ended up knocking him out in the 5th but this was really annoying.
On the other dick online opponent, he had highlighted one of the mid-tier ranked fighters in the weight class (heavyweight). So in attempt to have a fair fight, I had selected a fighter who was at about the same level. And right after I had selected him, the bastard turns around and picks Isaac Frost, who has the highest stats and attributes in the game. For those who play UFC Undisputed 2010, this is the equivalent of seeing your opponent have his cursor over Drew McFedries and you select Nate Quarry as a show of good faith, and the guy turns around and picks a 6"6 CAF with maxed out stats while you don’t know what hit you. And he is the only guy in the game who can get away with spamming uppercuts, so I got my ass kicked by a goddamn spammer.
Sorry I went on too long, I’m just so aggravated about it.
Wait, there are douchbags on the internet?
by discoandherpes on Sep 27, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions

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