A Floyd Mayweather Jr. vs. Victor Ortiz Primer for the MMA Fan
Some may call it sacrilege, but I am more interested in tonight's boxing affair between Floyd Mayweather Jr. and Victor Ortiz than the UFC's offering on Spike TV. Maybe you are, too. Or maybe you're curious about the boxing, but don't know much about either participant. We have you covered.
First, for comprehensive coverage and round-by-round updates, I highly recommend checking out Scott Christ over at Bad Left Hook. If Scott covered MMA, he would be the most valuable asset on SBN. The dude just does the damn thing. We'll have a live discussion post here at Bloody Elbow, but do yourself a favor and give Bad Left Hook a look tonight.
Here's Scott's prediction for the fight:
I don't have much to add with this one, really. It's a Floyd Mayweather Jr fight -- chances are, he waltzes through and gets a one-sided decision. Ortiz will be dangerous early, but his only chance is a puncher's chance. He has to catch Floyd, and then follow up. He has to knock him out. He cannot outbox him, cannot beat him on points. He really just can't do it. He's not good enough.
The only concern I have here is that Mayweather, as noted before, has to "get old" at some point. It can come one of two ways: A fight he survives that is harder than expected, and thus he retires, or a fight he doesn't survive, where everything creeps up on him and gets him beaten. I don't see it happening here, and frankly I don't think Ortiz makes it all the way to the finish line either. I'm guessing he doesn't come off his stool after nine rounds, all of which will be Mayweather's on the scorecard. As Floyd picks up steam, his straight right will continue to batter Ortiz, and eventually, it will be into submission. Mayweather RTD-9
Bloody Elbow's Brent Brookhouse offers his summation of the fight over at MMA Nation:
It isn't going to take long to see how the fight will play out. If Ortiz can't find success in the first two or three rounds, he isn't likely to find it at any point, barring clipping Floyd as the fight wears on. Victor has to make a decision immediately after the opening bell. Will he headhunt and try to hurt and finish Floyd before he can get rid of the ring rust and find his rhythm? Or will he go old school and work the body to sap the speed and open up the head as the rounds wear on?
Mayweather needs to not get caught up in a shootout, it's not his style so there isn't a huge risk of seeing it happen. If he can counter Victor effectively in the opening rounds, it will likely make Ortiz reluctant to fire the power punches and allow Floyd to dictate a comfortable rhythm.
Ortiz will also likely need to accept some punches to open up his offense. If at any point in the fight he is going backward and isn't the attacking fighter, he is losing. It comes down to pressuring Floyd and fighting like the younger man. If he can keep Mayweather from getting comfortable he might be able to make him fight like the "old man" Victor claims he is.
Carlos Acevedo of the fantastic The Cruelest Sport outlines the uphill battle that Ortiz faces:
Over the last few months, Ortiz, 29-2-2 (22), has revealed himself as one of the new eccentrics of boxing. Obsessed by Harry Potter, a competitor in triathlons, and with a seething contempt for the media, Ortiz has appeared audaciously confident since the pre-fight buildup against Berto. He carried that self-assurance into the ring against "The Human Bermuda Triangle of Boxing" as well. Revved up in his own corner before the sound of the opening bell, Ortiz charged after Berto and promptly hammered his fellow enigma into the canvas. In a battle of boxing chimeras, Ortiz came out on top, drubbing Berto for 9 out of 12 rounds, and emerging with a UNICEF welterweight title and an instant reputation.
Still, it is hard to gloss over the fact that Ortiz, 24, has accomplished all that he has accomplished in his career over the course of 36 minutes with Berto. After all, two fights ago, Ortiz struggled to a draw with middling Lamont Peterson, and his post-Maidana form seemed skittish at best. Simply put, Victor Ortiz has done nothing to suggest that he belongs in the ring with Floyd Mayweather. The only way, it seems, for Ortiz to derail the Money Train is to hope that inactivity has coated its wheels, axles, and brake shoes with enough rust to slow it down enough for Ortiz to handle. Ortiz does, however, enter the fight with a few advantages over Mayweather: he is bigger, younger, hits harder, and, perhaps most troublesome of all for Mayweather, he is a southpaw.
And if visuals are more your thing, I've embedded some video after the jump.
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Ah, Money...

@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 17, 2011 1:06 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
He can do this, but he can't pay the IRS?
I mean, I’ve been watching for several minutes, and he hasn’t stopped throwing away his cash.
by Anton Tabuena on Sep 17, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
On the other side of the camera is the plaintiff.
@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on Sep 17, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
General Electric didn't pay the IRS
PBF is not alone
UFC – 135, 145, 155, 170, 185, 205, heavyweight = 7
Boxing – 135, 140, 147, 154, 160, 168, 175, 200, heavyweight = 9
At the lower weights there are a lot more, but it’s because the lower the weight is, the higher the % of body weight a single pound is.
But yeah, we can probably stop the “too many weight classes” thing
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Sep 17, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
But there are 17 total wight classes, right?
I guess for me the thing is, how can anyone keep track when there are 17 weight classes and 5 major promotions? It’s just seems a little watered down.
Come at me, bro.
by IKiIIed007 on Sep 17, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
There are 17 if you include the 8 that exist below 135 lbs. From 135 to up there is 9 in boxing and 8 in MMA (Superheavyweight isn’t listed by Brent) So weight class-wise there is very little difference between the two. Title wise it is a different story, but there are the big four sanctioning body titles. Unlike MMA promotions aren’t responsible fort the titles, which has its positives and negatives. I prefer to use Ring Magazine’s ranking for determination of a fighter’s place in the division.
Nobody considers SHW to be a real division, though.
It’s a freak show weight. In the actually competitive weight classes, the divisions in MMA have more logical progressions. From strawweight to lightweight, the divisions go by 10 lbs at a time. Lightweight to middleweight have 15 lb differentials, and then a 20 lb gap between middleweight and light heavy. The divisions’ weight gaps increase at a steady rate.
Whereas in boxing, there’s no rhyme or reason in the weight divisions. Not only are the gaps smaller, but in irregular patterns as well- by the chart Brookhouse outlines, there’s a difference of 5, 7, 7, 6, 8, 7, and then 15. What sense does that make? Considering how spread out boxing talent is, what sense does it make to have these micro- weight class divisions?
It’s just so god damned arbitrary.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Scroll down.
Fagan outlined a hypothetical weight class setup with a steady rate of increase. Adding 15 pounds every time is just as arbitrary. Why 15?
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not always just 15.
10 lb differential in the lighter weight classes, 15 lb differential in the medium weight classes, 20 lbs for light heavyweight.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Still, why do it that way?
Doing it by percentage of weight makes a hell of a lot more sense than just multiples of five.
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I tend to agree,
but again- people like seeing round numbers. The percentage system Fagan outlined is so close to the existing weight classes that it makes little sense to shuffle things around at this point.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Weight classes have names if the numbers bother folks that much.
Continuing to do something that you admit doesn’t make sense because a) that’s the way things have always been done and b) people like the number 5 is absolutely ridiculous.
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I agree with you,
just being a realist though. Things aren’t going to change because the difference is so absolutely minimal.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The reason boxing weight classes seem so arbitrary is because they were founded 100 years ago
The traditional 8 weight classes have a long, long history so I personally like them. And the reason they are such odd numbers is they were originally measured in British stones.
Friggin stones.
That shit confuses me.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
It's the belts not the weight classes that are the problem
Yeah, there are a few more weights as IKilled007 explains, but it’s the fact that there isn’t a single “major league” (like the UFC) that really confuses the sport.
I feel like these types of things aren't the big deal people make them out to be.
If you want to give boxing a shot, you will. If you don’t, you won’t. The too many belts/titles/weight classes/rankings/fighters/foreigners/premium cable channels arguments always ring hollow to me.
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish the weights in both boxing and MMA were more uniform in the steps in weight by percentage. For instance, here’s what the weight classes look like with a 6 percen increase, starting with 135:
135 | 143 | 152 | 161 | 170 | 180 | 190 | 201 | 201+
That gives a more boxing feel. An 8 percent increase is more similar to the current MMA setup:
135 | 146 | 158 | 171 | 185 | 200 | 200+
I would prefer either over the seemingly random and arbitrary jumps of the current system.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on Sep 17, 2011 2:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
158 would be similar to the PRIDE LW division.
Optimal for guys like Nick and Diego.
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm all for less arbitrary weight class divisions,
but your system is incredibly close to the already existing setup. People like 5’s and 10’s, they’re more round.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
135 is only taking it down to boxing's lightweights, though
135 is bantamweights for MMA. Bantamweight, in spite of having a limit of only 118, is still an important weight class in boxing, with guys like Nonito Donaire and Fernando Montiel being major draws. As such, I don’t think it’s fair to dismiss the proliferation of sub-135 pound weight classes.
Mayweather really is an awesome talent. Unless age and inactivity catch up with him he’ll drub Ortiz. Those lead left hooks and straight rights will land every time he lets his hands go. I don’t think Ortiz would even beat Shane Mosley.
Mayweather is a great boxer.
I personally don’t get why there’s more interest in the Mayweather fight. Shields/ Ellenberger is a way more competitive matchup, is on cable, and isn’t limited to just punching.
To each their own, but me- i’ll be watching 2 top welterweights duke it out, seeing if the new TUF winners can make it past some dynamite strikers, and eagerly watching the return of one of my favorite middleweight thai boxers.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
i’ll be watching 2 top welterweights duke it out
Me too, but we’ll be watching different events ;).
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Sep 17, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Shields/Ellenberger is more competitive on paper than Anderson/Okami.
Which one would you watch if you could only pick one?
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously Anderson/ Okami,
but that’s because it’s still MMA. Boxing is a fun little experiment in seeing who can punch the best, but when I want to see the true sport of unarmed combat, I will watch MMA. If I want to watch the pure sport of striking, i’ll watch muay thai.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
MMA is a fun little experiment in seeing who can wrestle the best.
When I want to see the true sport of fighting I will watch boxing.
Why dismiss an entire sport simply because you don’t like it?
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Because MMA is like 5’s and 10’s, while boxing is like 7’s and 8’s. (I kid, no offense).
"... All reined up in old language and old assumptions, straining to jump clean-hoofed on to a whole new track of being I only suspect is there. I can't see it, because my educated, average head is being held at the wrong angle..."
by dancingChicken on Sep 17, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't get it.
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I honestly have no idea. I think it might be a combinations joke, maybe. That wouldn’t explain why he’s saying no offense, though… I’m just lost.
I was poking fun at Elliot’s idea that people like the more round things better (multiple of 5 lbs weight difference between weight classes in MMA opposed to 7 and 8 lbs difference in boxing) and that’s why he’s “dismissing” boxing as a sport (because MMA is more round than boxing).
“No offense” part was directed towards Elliot, because I know that he’s an intelligent commenter, who just happened to say something stupid.
Either way, it was a stupid joke. I should burn in hell for trying to be a smart ass.
"... All reined up in old language and old assumptions, straining to jump clean-hoofed on to a whole new track of being I only suspect is there. I can't see it, because my educated, average head is being held at the wrong angle..."
by dancingChicken on Sep 18, 2011 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions
That's not what MMA is really about, though.
It maddens me that the judging trends lean towards that, but we all know that it’s not what fighting is about.
I’m not dismissing boxing, i’m just saying what it is- the sport of punching. It’s not even a complete striking form because its ruleset is so limited. You can only throw punches to 2 targets- the head and the body. I’ve said this before- boxing is the greco- roman wrestling of the striking world. It’s a useful skill, but it’s very narrow in its focus, and often results in stalemates or periods of stilted offense because there are only a few things you have to worry about.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
and often results in stalemates or periods of stilted offense
You see this all the time in MMA.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Sep 17, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
You see it in any sport.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
So how is that a negative specific to boxing?
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
So why make it a point about boxing then?
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Sep 17, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It's more prevalent in boxing IMO.
Floyd Mayweather and Forrest Whitaker basically made careers out of it; defense is actually rewarded under their scoring system.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
*Pernell Whitaker
lol
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
As I read that I started to think how Forrest Whitaker could have good defense with his one eye half closed.
"... All reined up in old language and old assumptions, straining to jump clean-hoofed on to a whole new track of being I only suspect is there. I can't see it, because my educated, average head is being held at the wrong angle..."
by dancingChicken on Sep 17, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Sweet Pea was one of the most brilliant fighters I've ever seen.
If you can’t appreciate him just because he’s a boxer I give up. There’s no discussion to be had.
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
He's fun to watch,
but exactly what i’m talking about in boxing. His offense was pretty milquetoast, and ultimately in fighting, the goal is 1’st- to inflict maximum harm and 2’nd- to absorb a minimum.
His ability to dodge punches is impressive, but a novelty IMO.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s not a stalemate, that’s one fighter completely neutralising his opponents offense whilst finding a lot of success with his own. Not to mention, and I’ll admit this is the boxing fanboy in me talking, it’s fucking beautiful to watch.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Sep 17, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Sometimes they mount successful offense, sometimes they don't.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
When don’t they?
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Sep 17, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Mayweather/ Mosley was utterly boring,
aside from when Floyd got rocked.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Really? I’m surprised you brought Mayweather/Mosley up, because Floyd definitely mounted a successful offense in that fight.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Sep 17, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
He did, but it was boring as shit.
The De la Hoya fight was WAY worse.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
It was one-sided, it wasn’t boring. There’s no way I can find watching one of the best pure boxers I’ve ever seen apply his craft at such a high level to be boring.
I mean, this is mesmerising stuff:



"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Sep 17, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
To each their own.
I’d rather watch Ghita chop someone’s leg off with round kicks, or watch Aoki crank someone’s arm behind their back.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I love watching both of those, I just love watching a genius like Floyd at work, too.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Sep 17, 2011 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd rather watch his genius against Pacquiao
Instead of against Patrick Cote Victor Ortiz.
Bloody Elbow Grappling Editor.
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I’m sure everybody would rather him him fight Pacquiao, although comparing the second ranked welterweight in the world to Patrick Cote is kind of ignorant IMO.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Sep 17, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
*see him
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Sep 17, 2011 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Kind of really ignorant.
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Forest Whitaker?
The dude from Last King of Scotland?
MMA isn’t the true sport of unarmed combat at all.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Sep 17, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's the closest we have to it.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s the same reason GSP-Condit or Silva-Okami is more interesting than two top ten-ish boxers fighting on Showtime/HBO/ESPN. Mayweather is a special fighter. I like special fighters.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on Sep 17, 2011 3:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 3 recs
The "competitive fight" thing always gets me when MMA fans talk about May/Pacquiao.
“I’d rather watch two fighters roughly equal in their mediocrity than one great one.”
No, you just don’t like boxing. That’s fine, but don’t try and dress it up as something else.
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s the same point I’ve made with regards to rathering watching five rounds of Fitch/Shields than seeing a Eliot Marshall and Steve Cantwell prelim.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on Sep 17, 2011 3:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I do too,
but at this point I know what Mayweather does. I applaud his ability to receive minimal damage from an opponent who can only punch. I acknowledge his showmanship.
But tonight will only either affirm his ability (he wins) or affirm his decline (he loses). If it turns out to be a good fight, i’ll dig up the video and watch it online for free, same with Canelo. But there’s no way i’m dropping $50 just to see Mayweather when I have a fully loaded night of REAL fight sport on cable.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
MMA is no more "real" than boxing.
They are both sporting competitions with rules and regulations. Is (American) football more real than soccer because you’re allowed to tackle opponents?
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
MMA has a much broader ruleset.
Just in striking, you have 8 points that can attack any target on the body except for the spine, groin, and back of the head. Not even talking about grappling.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Generalism isn't inherently better or more realistic than specialism.
There are pros and cons to both.
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
That sounds good on paper,
but that doesn’t take into account the fact that kicks, knees, and elbows are fucking awesome. It doesn’t feel right to watch a striking contest where the combatants can’t do those things.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Groin shots and eye gouging are fun to watch too.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on Sep 17, 2011 3:31 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 2 recs
Maybe in a sadistic kind of way.
It’s not like low blows don’t happen in boxing. Or head butts.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Right, but by your logic more legal techniques = more awesome. So, bring on groin shots, headbutts, knees/kicks to the head on the ground, etc. (I’m actually only be half-facetious about this.)
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
I would be down for all of those except for groin shots.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Sep 17, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
mma isn't REAL fighting either. It's a sport
with a bunch of rules and a ref. It’s not even the close to real fighting. Tyson’s ear biting was real fighting. Even when real fights hit the ground people don’t resort to wrestling and bjj. Theres usually a lot of punching and stomping,stabbing,biting, jumping etc. bottom line they are both sports, not REAL.
by djkrazykill on Sep 17, 2011 6:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Real fights have a ton of grappling
Assuming someone doesn’t get one-punched, chances are someone is going to the ground eventually. That said, I agree that MMA is still technically a sport.
I disagree completely
That weigh in was ghetto as hell. The people should walk up there, get weighed, face off, and then interview and walk off. There doesn’t need to be 30 people on the stage and their respective camps, who seem a bunch of yes men riding the coat tails of their millionaire friend, talking trash to someone they aren’t gonna fight.
by HaterSlayer on Sep 17, 2011 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I think we’ll see Floyd controlling the centre of the ring, taking away Ortiz’ aggression, and slowly sapping Ortiz’ will by not offering up much of a target and generally frustrating him. It’s not even that he’ll miss, I just see Ortiz struggling to even get off many punches in this one – I’ve never liked Ortiz against slicker fighters anyway. Money by wide UD in a dominant fight from round four onwards.
I love watching Floyd fight.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Sep 17, 2011 1:34 PM EDT reply actions
Oh, and I strongly recommend people reading the whole of that BLH article with Scott Christ’s prediction, a lot of good analysis from all contributors.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Sep 17, 2011 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions
What's the saying?
‘Not a single fuck was given that day’
PACIFIC RIM
in theaters
July 12th, 2013
by Chris Groves on Sep 17, 2011 1:39 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
This will be a one sided beat down by pretty boy floyd
but that undercard….. Shit’s hot.
"eat a dick." - Chris Barton
WAR ALVAREZ
Gotta root for my favorite ginger Mexican.
Real men don't eat honey. They chew bees. - Gilbert Yvel
If you guys think ortiz really has a chance you're crazy.
Ortiz is more of a sloppy brawler and mayweather will just jab his way to another victory, i’m not really interested in watching.
Mike, something you forgot to mention is that this card is pretty stacked(for a boxing card)
There are 3 interesting fights on the rest of the card. IIRC two of the fighters are top 10 in their weight class and there are 3 undefeated prospects.
Floyd Mayweather is,
without question, one of the top five athletes in the world. And, he’s got a mouth to match his boxing talents. I thought the 24/7 show was the best program on TV, especially the first episode when he fought with his dad and we learned that Roger Mayweather didn’t know what salmon was.
Rather than get caught up in a boxing vs mma debate, just enjoy and appreciate the fighter.
by Gideon Jay on Sep 17, 2011 2:22 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Here's my quick capsule, easy to swallow Mayweather vs Ortiz primer for the MMA fan
Save your money for UFC 135.
The end.
Bloody Elbow Grappling Editor.
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by KJ Gould on Sep 17, 2011 2:25 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Totally disagree.
Both fights on the undercard are very strong.
by phillyhoosfan on Sep 17, 2011 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
He said for the MMA fan, not the combat sports fan.
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont see the divide
I’m an MMA fan who likes to watch big boxing fights. Doesn’t hurt an MMA fan to see what good technical boxing still looks like once in a while
Then you are a combat sports fan.
Someone who ONLY likes MMA would be an MMA fan. Suggesting they watch a boxing match is pointless because they aren’t interested in it and probably never will be. It’s a losing battle. Most of the people I know that watch MMA and most of the people that frequent this site seem to be in this group.
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't expect many if any MMA fans
To put down $30 to watch ADCC next week.
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Not an even comparison.
Boxing is easier on the eyes than straight grappling, has more history as a professional sport, more exposure, better athletes competing, etc. etc. etc.
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I dunno
Nothing’s left me feeling as ripped off quite like a Boxing PPV in the last few years. $60 for Mayweather and he’s still not fighting Pacquiao? F*ck that shit.
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No I'm pretty sure I'm an MMA fan
And besides I dont see anything negative about being labeled a “combat sports fan”. If anything it gives you an advantage over guys who will only watch something that takes place in a cage. They have a clue as to what good wrestling, boxing and bjj looks like.
Jesus you're slow.
I’m not saying liking boxing is a bad thing. I like boxing/kickboxing/MMA myself. There are a lot of people that only like MMA. Trying to cram boxing down their throats is an exercise in futility.
If you want beef then bring the ruckus.
by lowellthehammer on Sep 17, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Ortiz swag and Brashness is throwing Floyd off its hilarious
PBF is the one used to doing all that talking. Cant wait to wait it.
Haha. Keep thinking that.
Mayweather knows he is getting rich off this fight. He loves Ortiz’s swag and brashness— it’s getting more people like you interested.
Mayweather makes money off every ppv bought, every hotdog eaten, and every t-shirt sold. He wins either way.
I'm cheering for Ortiz but it's most likely that Floyd outboxes him to a decision.
After this match, assuming he wins, has he eliminated all the guys he can face to duck Pac Man yet?
The Big Book of English for MMA: Brazil Edition! Including Such Staples As:
"I'm Ready For Fight!"
"I'm Excite For Fight"
"I'm Train"
"He Will Receive The Punch"
"I'm Good Standup"
Id love to see him fight Marquez.
He is more dangerous than Pac-Man IMO.
He already beat Marquez by UD in 2009
The Big Book of English for MMA: Brazil Edition! Including Such Staples As:
"I'm Ready For Fight!"
"I'm Excite For Fight"
"I'm Train"
"He Will Receive The Punch"
"I'm Good Standup"
Brain fart meant Sergio Martinez
Marquez is crazy washed up
JMM isn’t crazy washed up, he’s just past his prime.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Sep 17, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Martinez would be a good fight but I feel like Pac Man needs to happen sonner
The Big Book of English for MMA: Brazil Edition! Including Such Staples As:
"I'm Ready For Fight!"
"I'm Excite For Fight"
"I'm Train"
"He Will Receive The Punch"
"I'm Good Standup"
Sooner...
The Big Book of English for MMA: Brazil Edition! Including Such Staples As:
"I'm Ready For Fight!"
"I'm Excite For Fight"
"I'm Train"
"He Will Receive The Punch"
"I'm Good Standup"
it will only happen when they are both past their prime and no one wants to watch it by then.
Just when they want a big payday when their money starts to get a little depleted.
I also gotta give PBF a little bit of respect here
Ortiz is not the usual over the hill and deteriorated boxer he has scalped and put on his belt this decade.2 years ago If Berto/PBF were a fight everyone would be going nuts and Ortiz demolished berto so a little bit of respect.
Technically, this will be his first fight of the current decade (no year zero and all that).
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Sep 17, 2011 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Glad you posted this, still excited for UFC free!
The lives of all of us have been moulded largely by induction through suggestion.
by imapimp08 on Sep 17, 2011 3:19 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 1 recs
I would be excited about the boxing fight
except for the lack of elbows, knees, kicks, takedowns, grappling, submissions, etc.
I was a big fan of boxing…then MMA got legit and sanctioned. Just like I used to love baseball before truly understanding football (NFL). Never looked back.
Go Orange(men)!
Or someone who prefers sports with a wider variety of athletic requirements.
But, you go on making generalizations, cause that’s what truly shows the maturity of whatever generation you are a part of.
Go Orange(men)!
Boxing and MMA are two completely different sports
with two completely different sets of athletic requirements.
Yeah, and MMA still has a wider athletic requirement
but you know us generation MTV disciples, we can’t possibly understand. BTW, what generation is that? Gen X? Gen Y? Gen Z?
Go Orange(men)!
Gen Y. Gen Z is the Homeland Security Generation.
You have to be better versed in a wider variety of martial arts to be a successful MMA fighter. But that has nothing to do with “athletic requirement.” I guess that’s what you mean, but it’s hard to take this argument seriously if you are demeaning the athletic talents of boxers.
I said it before and I’ll stick to it. Mayweather is a top five athlete in the world right now. No one does what he does. And he’s been doing it for 15+ years.
The NFL is so much shittier than baseball.
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