Contrary to popular belief, the UFC cannot afford to close Strikeforce.
by Urijah Bieber on Sep 1, 2011 7:21 PM EDT
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Sometimes I think an idea or meme circulates the MMA blogsphere that begins to have a life of it's own independent of the evidence supporting it. The idea Lesnar was immune to punches, wrestling and submissions due to his muscles being one of them. The idea the UFC isn't mainstream, or could never be mainstream is another.
(I don't see Strikeforce on this tombstone yet)
The recent days and weeks have seen a lot of chatter about the impending demise of Strikeforce, but a critical look at what an immediate end to the promotion would mean to Zuffa can only lead one to believe that Strikeforce, while clearly restructured and changed, has to survive for the immediate and foreseeable future. After the jump we'll get into specifics but there are several issues at hand here ;
- Does moving the PPV caliber elite of Strikeforce over to the UFC and the PPV side of the business, when Zuffa is a PPV company first and foremost, really signify the end of the entire Strikeforce promotion?
- The number of fighters under contract to Zuffa in relation to UFC events.
- The existence of two ever growing female divisions and the resigning of Cyborg, Gina and the promotion of rising star Ronda Rousey.
- The need for Strikeforce to serve as a place holder for other networks, akin to the WEC/Verses.
- What value would a "feeder" league have and what do networks "really want"?
- Is the UFC going to giftwrap that many assets to Bellator in one fell swoop?
(Strikeforce must change in order to survive, but change does not equal dissolution)
The crux of the idea that Strikeforce is a dead organization walking is the fact it's biggest names, Diaz, Fedor, Miller, Overeem and Dan Henderson, have all left the promotion for one reason or another. The idea is that without these fighters, there is no point in retaining a second brand. However, it doesn't make much sense to make this leap. I have a hard time envisioning a scenario where Zuffa, again, a PPV company, doesn't re-shift it's PPV caliber assets to the PPV side of the company, no matter what they try to do with Strikeforce. It has to be assumed this would always happen. Did the UFC spend 40 million on six fighter contracts? I find this hard to believe. I see no reason to assume that because PPV quality fighters were moved to that side of the company, that the Strikeforce brand has suddenly lost all value. I think it is clear though, that a significant shift in the business model is at hand. The business as usual mantra is six months dated. However, a change does not mean the same thing as an end, or a merger.
Right now, Strikeforce has 104 fighter contracts. Of those between 50 and 60 are male fighters with winning records in Strikeforce, or name value. Strikeforce is simply too large a promotion to be assimilated into the UFC immediately. The terms of the new Fox deal are exclusive. They cannot add any more shows. The UFC cannot put on enough events to justify this many fighters on the roster under the current deal. In order to make room for all these fighters, an extensive period of cutting would take place where many fighters with talent, skill, name value, regional market value and potential would be cut when they otherwise wouldn't. One loss cuts would be rampant. The market would be flooded with quality fighters. Competitors like Bellator would have all 32 picks in next years draft. You also have to consider that the UFC has publicly stated 125 is coming to the UFC in 2012. 125 pound stud Jon Dodsen has signed to compete on TUF at 135. The division is coming. That further restricts the number of fighters Zuffa can carry. They'll have to trim the fat anyway, even without a merger. Strikeforce is simply too large to be merged at this time.
(I'd hit. Take that however you want.)
This week Strikeforce and Cyborg Santos came to terms on a deal her manager claims makes her the highest paid female athlete. Hyperbole aside, it is clear that she is making good money. It makes little sense to pay her this kind of scratch, just to give her walking papers within four or six months. Brazil has just been blown wide open, and based on the reaction Paulo Thiago got, the best WMMA fighter will be very well received there as well.
Dana White has softened his stance on WMMA considerably since the merger;
"I don't have a problem with women fighting," White states. "As (women's MMA) continues to grow, if there are more and more women where you can create an entire division with a lot of talent women, I am all about it"
With Gina making a return in December, Cyborg's return and the arrival and promotion of Rhoda Rosey, it is clear that Strikeforce has not abandoned 145 pounds. Why then would Zuffa spend time promotion and fixing up the division immediately before releasing it to Bellator, their competitor with a great foothold in the sub 135 pound divisions? I cannot remember Dana ever being so generous.
135 pounds is already stacked in terms of WMMA and only getting better with prospects like Sarah McMahon on the horizon. I liken this situation to the WEC in 2007. Miguel Torres used to fight in barn burners against undersized Japanese nationals flown in to fight on a weeks notice. But now the division is loaded with contenders. There are enough women in boxing, wrestling, judo and kickboxing to produce an exciting division. We're almost there. Give it time.
(Julia Stiles evil, asskicking twin)
This is where the internet meme behavior is at its worst. "I don't like WMMA" morphs into "Nobody likes WMMA, the UFC will make it go away". That just isn't true. The ratings for WMMA have been strong on Showtime. WMMA has a market. A niche within a niche. When a boxing or baseball writer says "nobody likes MMA" it isn't true either.
People continually point out the WEC was eventually merged. This cannot be denied, but when we look at why it was merged, when it happened and the factors that lead to the initial purchase, the course of the WEC's lifestyle tends to suggest Strikeforce will be safe in a similar role for the foreseeable future. The WEC was purchased to keep the IFL off of the emerging Versus. network while the UFC was locked into an exclusive deal with Spike. Currently, the UFC is now locked into an exclusive deal with Fox. The channel that build the brand is now being courted by Bellator. It makes little sense for the UFC to give up Spike, or any other network for that matter, without a fight. I disagree entirely with the idea that free MMA on Spike TV could not hurt the UFC's bottom line when they charge 55 bucks a pop to view the fight. Every lost buy hurts. Free MMA on Spike will hurt the UFC. Unless that content is loaded with PPV advertisements of course. Strikeforce broadcasts would be. It would be the ideal scenario for Zuffa and Fox for that matter.
The WEC was only merged when the divisions had grown to UFC levels and the UFC was promoting events themselves on VS. The WMMA divisions are not ready yet, and they cannot promote on Spike. The UFC also took on considerably less contracts when they merged the divisions. The UFC was not adding other divisions besides the WEC ones either. Zuffa changed the WEC's model and they will change Strikeforce's model.
Finally, I don't think it is fair to say a network, Spike or otherwise, wouldn't want a "feeder league". There is this idea that networks only get into MMA if they believe they can have serious growth or challenge the UFC. At this point, that is completely unreasonable. I believe a network, especially Spike, would rather do business with the same stable company they have been, using a brand with UFC affiliations, than they would a risky upstart in Bellator. Less risk, much more reward. UFC on Fox advertising muscle. As long as Strikeforce is redefined, I think it could do just fine on a Spike TV that promotes the fighters there as future UFC stars. It would be an easy sell - the winners on this show move on to the UFC. It would be another avenue for the UFC to generate contenders. If a Lorenz Larkin won the 205 pound title for instance, it wouldn't take long for fans to begin clamoring for him to test himself against the UFC elite. Zuffa would also stand to generate money from a Spike(or where ever) TV deal. They did not pay 40 million for six contracts.
The bottom line is that the UFC is not going to hand over two popular female divisions and stack Bellator Spike TV tournaments with UFC caliber fighters in one fell swoop. Does this seem like something Zuffa would ever do?
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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Hmm I don't like the way the article looks with the pictures. This is why having help at HKL will be good for me.
cause Roth, Nate, yall ARE picking me you know.
So...
Much of this is the same talk we had when WEC was purchased. Let’s have a feeder league, let’s have lighter classes, so on.
Before I get going, let me say that the size of SF has little to do with anything. Companies are commonly absorbed and then downsized. Yes, we all would hat to see fighters lose their jobs, but it happens everyday.
The point is, that with TODAY’S landscape, there would be no WEC, no SF, no Affliction, no EXC. Yes, there are upstart minor promotions, but outside of Bellator nothing is TV worthy on a regular basis at this point. Even Bellator is very uneven with their cards. So yes, there absolutely is a place for SF and good reason for the UFC to keep them running separately.
So, let’s say for argument’s sake that 20% of the UFC roster probably has little business in the UFC. Then let’s say 80% of the SF roster has little business in the UFC. so let’s trade those 20%‘s. The UFC get’s the jacare, King Mo, Melendez, Thomson, Barnett types and so on. SF then get’s the Hardy, Joe Stevenson, Matt Brown level of guys. They can still fight, may need a boost and have some name/face value, maybe even more than the guys coming from SF. Now, we have all the best in the UFC and fighting each other. Hell, while we are at it, send the Fitch types to. If they don’t want to fight each other, split them up. Ok, I’m dreaming a little there, but oh well, lol.
Now, you re-brand SF. This is VITAL! They need the UFC name value. The fighters need it for better sponsorships and pay. So I used to want the WEC to be UFC Lite or something, but that was greatly about the weight classes. Now, I think UFC must be in the name and I have thought it over, no UFC Challengers, No UFC Lite, rather, let’s do the smart thing and keep it simple…UFC2. Probably patterned after ESPN and ESPN2, which has become almost as big as the primary network. This doesn’t really carry much of a stigma of a junior promotion or a minor league system, yet clearly separates itself from the UFC.
So what do we see from the new UFC2? First off, let’s throw the ladies some love. While I greatly have slim interest in WMMA, there are indeed fights that I DO want to see. Have those fights you expect to be big on the main cards and the others on the under cards. Hell, even have a “ladies night” once in a while and do an all WMMA card. But let’s have clearly defined weight classes and non of the BS fights we have seen for Gina and Cyborg. If you can’t do it right, don’t do it at all. I do think it can be done right with a measure of common sense.
Now, every division should have a belt and someone wearing it. If a guy like Hardy goes over, wins 4 fights and holds the belt, then gets “promoted” back to the UFC, get it filled immediately. Let your fighters know, your career is at a crossroads, so be ready to fight when the phone rings. This doesn’t mean they have to work that much harder, but guys trying to get to the big show, should never be so far out of shape they have to turn down a fight 3-4 weeks out, injury aside.
Then you have guys that are good, but not ready for the UFC. Guys like Jake Rosholt that could have used more experience outside of the UFC. You have these guys under contract, but not in the top promotion with to much pressure. So yes, it is kind of a feeder league, kind of a developmental league and a place where vets can get back on track or realize they may need to look for another line of work.
So, there you have it, UFC2. Home of great young talent, familiar faces looking for a fresh start and the world’s home of WMMA. You have the quality and value to run all cards on TV, but don’t need PPV revenue to succeed.
maybe this isn’t realistic, but it what I am hopeful of seeing.
Also, get the Hell away from Showtime.
by BJJDenver on Sep 1, 2011 8:51 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
The UFC brand is exclusive to Fox and I highly doubt the deal allows them to do a UFC2 and get away with it.
So, let’s say for argument’s sake that 20% of the UFC roster probably has little business in the UFC. Then let’s say 80% of the SF roster has little business in the UFC.
Those are made up numbers. 60-70% of the Strikeforce roster is UFC caliber counting women.
by Urijah Bieber on Sep 1, 2011 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Ummm...
yeah, that’s exactly what I said. And where did you get the factual data that 60-70% is UFC caliber, lol???
And
So you’re saying that since the UFC doesn’t have women’s divisions, that they would be on caliber with the guys at 135 and 145???
Hopefully now you see I was just using 20%, for argument’s sake, as I stated and as you quoted. It is a round number and there is no way of knowing who would be what caliber.
Also the UFC2 thing is just my preference, you could call it Straight Dave’s Human Cockfighting League for all I care, as long as it is structured the same.
Go look at their roster
then look at the middle and bottom of the UFC’s.
by Urijah Bieber on Sep 2, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
For F*cks sake
What about this do you not understand? Do you not know what “for argument’s sake” means?
It is just an arbitrary, round number I selected from thin air to show the exchange. I don’t give a crap if 99% of their fighters are worthy, it is no way an estimate, simply a made up number to show how the switch over could work. Why are you stuck on this?
have some coffee man
I followed, I was simply stating that for arguments sake, those numbers don’t fit the reality. You’re alright man. Shit.
by Urijah Bieber on Sep 2, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
To much coffee, lol
Yeah, I’m pretty much agreeing with you. I think they do need to keep it going and I think they can actually profit from it and greatly grow the sport. The UFC has done a lot for MMA and I think they could make it even bigger with some smart moves here.
To the exclusivity point
I did not realize that, but I’m sure there are ways to work around it. Hell, if the UFC on Fox works out well, they could even add UFC2 to Fox Sports (I know, I know), FX or some other Fox owned network.
Like I said, it would require an amendment to the Fox deal
But UFC branded content needs to be limited to a point. Over saturation of UFC proper is a real danger. This is why retaining a supplementary brand is beneficial.
by Urijah Bieber on Sep 3, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
This comment isn't getting enough love
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
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by ElliotMatheny on Sep 3, 2011 5:30 AM EDT up reply actions
I love your idea, a lot in fact
A minor league system makes a lot more sense than having two seperate entities. The only thing I don’t like is UFC2. I agree that it should carry the UFC brand, and I can’t think of anything better, but I just think UFC2 sounds bad.
Say it ain't Cho
by Sean in Vancouver on Sep 4, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I would have disagreed with this article a couple weeks ago
Now I am not so sure. Why would SF sign Cyborg to a huge deal if they weren’t going to keep SF around for a long time? Makes no sense. I do not think the UFC is willing to start WMMA divisions so it would stand to reason that they may keep it around for a while.
Your point on the giftwrapping of talent to Bellator etc. is a very good one. There is a lot of well scouted talent in SF and there may well be some great fighters in there that are still very green. I can’t see the UFC not exploring this talent further.
Another issue is Scott Coker. The guy is very good at what he does and could easily round up the fighters that the UFC abandoned from closing up SF and start building another rival organization. I could see him building it up to a viable challenger to the UFC again. Keeping Coker using his talents for the UFC would seem to be a much smarter move. The UFC is growing and expanding their number of cards and SF would help to supply fights for all these shows.
Dang it, I think you may be right. At least for the foreseeable future.
"I think he doesn't accept punches very well. I don't know why." - JDS speaking of Brock Lesnar
I said something similar (but shorter and drunker) last week.
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yo bro hows it going?
Ima read the post in a bit just wanted to say hey
word
For real boxing post by the way. I like it – no one will read it unless you tie it into MMA though.
by Urijah Bieber on Sep 2, 2011 12:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Does the UFC, a PPV company first and foremost, moving the PPV ready top of the division really signify the end of an entire promotion?
Huh?
by sexysassytravismmafan on Sep 2, 2011 8:32 AM EDT reply actions
ok that sucked
Does moving the PPV caliber elite of Strikeforce over to the UFC and the PPV side of the business, when Zuffa is a PPV company first and foremost, really signify the end of the entire Strikeforce promotion?
better?
by Urijah Bieber on Sep 2, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
I want UFC: Bushido and for them to have rising prospects against recently cut guys from the UFC and make it a breeding ground for future contenders.
A) Fighters stay under Zuffa umbrella once cut from the ‘big show’
B) Reduces chance of Bellator getting prospects
C) Gives them a place for womens MMA
D) Gives them the possibility of having ‘legends’ matches like Gracie vs Severn etc
E) Gives them a secondary network option and more viewership overall.
It's just a world, it's just a life.
by DirtyML on Sep 2, 2011 3:47 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Holy crap!
How did I not come up with this following idea sooner!!! We rename it Pride Fighting Championships!!! We can have 350 pounders fighting middleweights, worked fights and, what the Hell, mafia involvment!
Bushido just reminde me of the old days, lol!
by BJJDenver on Sep 2, 2011 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well the name is just a name, it can be anything but I like Bushido.
It's just a world, it's just a life.
Some's mad their idea was too long stupid.
UFC: Bushido, I’d watch it, UFC2 not so much.
"I can kick you really hard." - Mauricio "Shogun" Rua
Just read it
I think that you basically hit the nail on the head. It would do the UFC more harm than good than to flood the market with all of the Non-UFC caliber fighters on SF’s roster.
I mean I can remember just 2 and a half years ago when we were all making fun of what a joke champion Alistair was. Now Im not so sure he isnt the best heavy in the division.
Shit changes on a dime, especially in this sport, we think someones the next coming of Rickson Gracie and he ends up being a bum, and vice versa.
I think the smartest thing to do is keep SF running as like a AAA league.
Why would you open a buisness and make say 1.5 million when you can fold that biz into your own and make 5
most of the guys on Striekforces roster are not UFC caliber when they first were purchased I looked at their roster online and picked about 20 guys that should go over everyone else not so much.
Let the WMMA go out onto the regional sceneand grow and when its ready and viable Zuffa will swoop in and promote it.
Twitter @MaZZM
http://www.mazzznet.com/
This isn't true
nothing about this comment is based on the facts.
by Urijah Bieber on Sep 2, 2011 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Let the WMMA go out onto the regional sceneand grow and when its ready and viable Zuffa will swoop in and promote it.
WMMA had a main event on SHO that peaked with 876,000 viewers for that main event. It is viable and promotable today.
that was one fight. one fight doesn’t make a division.WMMA doesn’t have strong divisions anywhere just about you sure the top 3 are good at 135 but than its just the WEC lightweight triangle of Varner Bendo Cerrone again.
Twitter @MaZZM
http://www.mazzznet.com/
That’s not true. There is a lot of female talent out there. They just need to brought together under one banner. How many people heard of Rhonda Rousey before her debut.
The fact that 850,000 MMA fans tuned in to a WMMA event proves there is interest and a market to be made.
by memitim on Sep 4, 2011 4:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
but why would Zuffa do all the hard work of making say a 135 division ? It would be easier and cheaper for them to just wait until the regional scene makes it viable and co-opting/buying it all up.
Twitter @MaZZM
http://www.mazzznet.com/
But that makes no sense
Bellator would swoop in like a hawk. That isn’t regional, anyway, 135 is already a solid division. WMMA steadily gets solid ratings.
by Urijah Bieber on Sep 4, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Bellator most likely won’t last and at this point are no real threat long term to the UFC the UFC doesn’t sign up every half decent prospect either. Let Bellator build up WMMA and when they are dead swoop in and pick up the pieces.
Twitter @MaZZM
http://www.mazzznet.com/
Spike is the great equalizer for a promotion like Bellator
by Urijah Bieber on Sep 4, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
spike won’t pay ufc money for bellator look at there ratings. At best 10 million a year and maybe they could sustain at that but look at how much they are trying to do. Eventually all this expansion will collapse in on itself.
Twitter @MaZZM
http://www.mazzznet.com/
Spike will sustain Bellator for the foreseeable future
MMA is as important to Spike as Spike is to any potential promotion. Where on earth do you get this ten million figure? Thin air?
by Urijah Bieber on Sep 5, 2011 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions
yea mostly but think about it UFc was getting 35 and did way more solid ratings than Bellator has done. The only people who know about Bellaotr are hardcores I told my casual cousins about it figure the tourny thing would be easy for them to follow and they kinda just shrugged and moved on. Dose Spike have cache as the “UFC” channel and could it help Bellators raitins sure.
Bellator just dosen’t have enough room to run 135 and 45 tournys everyother season on top of the other stuff.
My main point has just been why would Zuffa gamble on WMMA build it up make it profitable for the slight competition when they can have that competition do it for them and than snag it all.
Twitter @MaZZM
http://www.mazzznet.com/
Because if the divisions are sutainable they won't be able to "snag it all"
Unless they wanna pay another 40 million…
by Urijah Bieber on Sep 6, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Bellator
doesn’t have the resources to “swoop in like a hawk” and take anything that the UFC want.. They couldn’t take a single fighter the UFC actually wanted nevermind buying up a whole division.
"Serious sport is war minus the shooting."
George Orwell
if the ufc released all the 135 and 145'rs.
You’d better believe it.
by Urijah Bieber on Sep 4, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions
but that's not a thing
that the UFC is going to do. In terms of a women’s division, the UFC can offer the largest contracts if they want to start promoting WMMA. Therefore, they will attract the top talent when they feel that the division is viable.
Also, I doubt Bellator can afford whatever the contracts of all the feather and bantam weight fighters on the UFC roster
"Serious sport is war minus the shooting."
George Orwell
I think having Womens MMA on the regional scene is a step backwards
It’s seems like a catch 22 with Womens MMA because why would women athletes and women in general try to do MMA professionally if there is only regional-level money? Sure we get Sara McMann, Rhonda Rousey, and a small few others, but without the financial incentive, why would more women get into MMA? The thing is that having Womens MMA on national television will give the incentive of money and exposure for more women to get into MMA, and the regional scene won’t allow that. In my opinion, this idea of having Womens MMA grow through the regional MMA scene will only make the growth of Womens MMA slow or growing at a snail’s pace.
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There isn’t that much female talent out there. Even at the highest levels of WMMA, they are not even competitive more than 3 deep in a division. Cyborg has NO ONE to fight. She is the best WMMA fighter by such a wide margin, no one wants to fight her.
"I think he doesn't accept punches very well. I don't know why." - JDS speaking of Brock Lesnar
Incorrect
Strikeforce doesn’t outlive the Showtime contract by one day.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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Yea, but you have no reasoning for this
and no answer to the half dozen points.
by Urijah Bieber on Sep 2, 2011 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Right and maybe wrong
I think SF as it exists today and for the past few years, will indeed end with the Showtime contract. You can argue that would be a bad thing or a good thing, but I do believe more and more, that it will live on in some incarnation.
I don’t think I agree with that. If Strikeforce is kept alive as an entity separate from UFC within Zuffa, it would have some options for showing its fights.
One would be on a PPV model discounted from the price of UFC events.
Another would be a PPV package deal offered with a UFC event. By this I mean: Buy the UFC PPV and get either a free/nearly free Strikeforce broadcast, or get a free/nearly free Strikeforce live online feed.
Another would be similar to PPV but would be a per-fight deal with Showtime, HBO, or any premium cable broadcaster who would pay rights for a single event.
I have no way of knowing if any of these options are viable. I do agree that once the Showtime deal expires there are going to be few takers if Strikeforce looks for a multi-year broadcast deal, so to that extent I’d say you’re right. I just think if Zuffa has a good reason to keep the Strikeforce brand alive there ways to do it that don’t involve Showtime.
.....
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by Scabby Knuckle on Sep 4, 2011 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions
This is an exceptional article, above all because it’s so convincing.
But I think it’s a really weak point to say the UFC didn’t spend 40 mil. just for six contracts. For one, if they fold Strikeforce, that’s going to be more than six. More importantly the UFC spent that money to keep someone else from buying SF, investing in it, getting on Spike after the Fox deal, and turning themselves into a legitimate competitor.
Also you should watch out not to use “it’s” to denote ownership (sorry).
"He's like Elvis in Korea! They love him there." - Mike Goldberg on Denis Kang
I think it’s interesting that there are references here suggestive of Bellator being something scary that can’t be allowed to grow by absorbing fighters cut from UFC/Strikeforce. As long as Bellator sticks to its tournament format – which I love – why would UFC care if some of their cut fighters end up there? Well, I suppose they’d prefer to keep the Bellator stable of fighters relatively full of unknowns, since it’s pretty much inevitable that Zuffa will make an offer to buy out Bellator (if they haven’t already).
My guess is that if UFC perceives Bellator as the sole remaining obstacle to complete North American market domination they’ll need to make an offer larger than the bargain basement price they paid for Strikeforce. It would be interesting to see what price, if any, gets Rebney’s investors to say “sold.”
.....
Get on board the Jake Train® . Next stop: Fight Night 25® Winner's Circle!
Good post.
This seems a pretty solid argument to me. I can’t see how they can just shut it down. Slowly phase it into something else, probably, but it’s not like buying SF was necessary due to the competition with the UFC. Certainly there’s a bunch of fighters worth poaching, but I have to think they’re going to keep going with SF in some fashion or another. Just needs something to distinguish it from the UFC, rather than just seeming like the minor leagues, and I’m not sure women’s MMA is it. But, Dana has said repeatedly that Zuffa needs more fighters and more shows, so I assume they have at least some rough plans. Curious to see how it unfolds.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Sep 4, 2011 3:13 PM EDT reply actions
Lots of good points, but i still think anyone that thinks that they “know” what is going to happen here is kidding themselves. Pride wasn’t for sale until the day it was, the WEC merger was imminent from the day it was bought and peopel were still arguing to keep it until the day it was closed, SF wasn’t for sale until it was gone.
There are plenty of reasons for it to stay and plenty of reasons for it to go, trying to guess which is going to happen is crazy. We don’t know what Showtime (or anyone) is willing to pay for a Strikeforce that is going to be be of a lesser quality than it was when the Showtime deal was signed, we don’t know how scared Zuffa is of someone getting on Spike, we don’t know a lot about what will go into this decision.
There are plenty of reasons for it to stay and plenty of reasons for it to go, trying to guess which is going to happen is crazy
This is the point of fanposts, we have crazy discussions about things that may or may not happen because we are MMA nerds with (too much?) time on our hands.
"Serious sport is war minus the shooting."
George Orwell
It’s ok to discuss the possibilities, but both the people that “know” SF will survive and the people that “know” SF will die are silly.
Which one is going to happen is a very good discussion topic, but it’s not fun or good when people are starting from a position of certainty.
Explain how they could close Strikeforce in Febuary.
No chance it happens.
by Urijah Bieber on Sep 5, 2011 9:16 PM EDT up reply actions
They can't do that.
I would advise you to read the fanpost. They cannot close Strikeforce in Febuary and the rationale that “no one will pay them” is frankly fucking ridiculous. The WEC was a UFC-lite and networks paid for that. Strikeforce has a good brand, and UFC affiliations. People will pay. Otherwise Bellator would have already moved. Strikeforce will remain.
by Urijah Bieber on Sep 6, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
bellator can’t move now because they still have a deal with the UFC, and they already moved to spike.com. I’m not saying your wrong for thinking that they will survive, I’m saying your wrong for thinking you know what zuffa is going to do. There are no rules, it’s a whole new world. In the last week they’ve announced a 1 fight main card on fox, a card in Japan, and a Friday night monster card, we have no clue what they are thinking, us mortals know nothing.
This right here-
I’m saying your wrong for thinking you know what zuffa is going to do
Are wise words.
I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.
-Socrates
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by ElliotMatheny on Sep 6, 2011 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Bieber, I think you make great points but I think Phildo makes an even stronger one, besides “we don’t know”. If the UFC keeps raiding them and stripping out or cutting all their drawing stars – Diaz, Fedor, Henderson, Overeem and eventually Melendez – what’s left? What is Strikeforce going to pay for? The Challenger cards and M-1 events by all accords have been successes for Showtime, but that is because they placate fans who have already paid for the package to get Fedor and the Grand Prix and are now getting bonus MMA. Are these same fans going to be happy only getting a feeder league? Can Strikeforce be anything but a feeder league if they don’t have Diaz, Overeem, and Henderson? If none of the star UFC fighters seem to be making a reverse pilgrimage to their “promotion”? And would it be smart of Zuffa to use a “dummy promotion” to placehold a channel when they are under an FTC investigation? To me, nothing would suggest anti-trust behavior more than that.
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