UFC on Fox: Dana White Correct About Bob Arum's Greed, Negative Effect on Boxing
The argument regarding how much of a crossover audience exists between boxing and MMA will probably continue for years. All the research we've ever been presented with would suggest a fairly low number. That being said, the huge egos possessed by men such as Dana White, Bob Arum, Gary Shaw, or any other combat promoter of any success mean that even the slightest move of aggression will almost always be responded to in an extreme way.
That isn't to say that having a huge ego is bad, it is a necessity in the world of promotion. The business of telling the world that your product is better than the other guy's is no place for humility.
So, when the UFC's debut on Fox was scheduled for the same night as Manny Pacquiao's third fight with Juan Manuel Marquez, it didn't take a genius to figure out that Top Rank's Arum and the UFC's White would exchange words.
It started with Bob Arum's response to the news of the Fox show going somewhat "head-to-head" with his cash cow (via ESPN):
There is no competition. If Fox was to put on a top movie that night, it might be more competition. If Fox put on Manchester United that night, it would be more competition.
Dana's response was predictable as he framed Arum and his son-in-law Todd duBoef as jealous before really getting personal when talking with Yahoo! Sports:
You had the ability, Bob Arum, to make boxing great. But the problem was, you were greedy. You're a greedy pig, just like all the other guys who were involved in boxing. All you ever did was try to rip money out of it. You never invested a dime into the sport of boxing to make it great, to make it last, to create a future for boxing. He's nothing but a greedy pig and his jealousy shows non-stop.
White's comments were harsh but as Scott Christ of Bad Left Hook pointed out, they were far from completely off the mark:
Does Bob Arum invest and risk money? Of course he does. But has he helped grow the sport any in recent years? Has anyone in boxing really tried to grow the sport? I don't think you can say that they really have. I don't think that, with the way they've operated the last 20+ years, they even really have the chance with the way they currently do business. The way they do business has to change. Not because they can't co-exist with UFC forever, because they can. But because boxing can't stay stagnant forever. Eventually it's either going to get better or get worse, and when you compare TV ratings from even eight years ago to what they are now, it's alarming how far the sport of boxing has dropped in terms of public appeal in the United States. That they've stabilized recently is nice, but it just means the ship isn't leaking anymore. Now it's time to get the water out of there.
What Scott and Dana both point out is true and is the larger issue at play.
When Arum was inducted into the International Hall of Fame in 1999, he talked at length about how he needed to justify his receipt of the award. He framed the way of going about earning it as protecting boxers both current via pushing the government to create a commission to oversee boxing, and past via a pension for retired fighters.
It was nice talk in a public forum but in the twelve years since that day, what has Bob done to make it a reality? It's the exact thing that Lou DiBella pointed out to ESPN in response to the public battle between White and Arum:
There's no question that when Don [King] and Bob [Arum] dominated this business for literally generations, that not a lot was invested back in the business. Frankly, Bob Arum admitted as much at his Hall of Fame induction. And the sport is in worse condition today than it's ever been. ... I'm not out there hating on [UFC]; I don't think they're trying to hurt boxing. ... Boxing has lost sight of the fact that it's a subset of the entertainment business. And Dana has not forgotten that.
Ignoring that one could claim DiBella is just as guilty as Bob of making no effort to produce long-term changes, he makes valid points about the UFC's ability to connect with new and younger fans.
It's that connection that sets up chances at growth and a move to network television.
While Arum took shots at the Fox deal because a network deal "doesn't pay them nearly as much as premium television does," the UFC saw it as a chance to grow the brand (and the sport) which will pay off much larger dividends down the road while not abandoning the pay-per-view model that has been the backbone of UFC business for years.
The entire reason that premium television pays more than network deals is that HBO broke the entire setup for the sport. They overpaid for years for fights with low levels of interest, in effect bidding against themselves at every turn. Showtime had to follow suit, although to a less ridiculous degree, and now no fighter or manager will take deals that are more in the realm of reason for a fight to be broadcast. HBO has done as much damage to the sport of boxing through their pay model than any one individual.
I talked at length with Steve Kim of MaxBoxing.com for his recent article about the differences that are becoming more apparent between the sports in the wake of the Fox deal. Steve made some very valid points throughout the article, but this really captures the difference in attitude:
It's telling that while boxing now celebrates fights that have audiences of just over 1.5 million and more recently, the fact that pay-per-view infomercials (in the form of either "24/7" or "Fight Camp 360") will get seen outside of the relatively small reach of HBO and Showtime and that the participants in pay-per-view bouts might get booked for appearances on "The Piers Morgan Show," the actual UFC product is on Fox. When Pacquiao was taken over to CBS/Showtime by Top Rank earlier this year for his bout against Shane Mosley, it was hoped that it would lead to a return of boxing on CBS's airwaves down the line. However, it seems as though all that was gained over HBO was leverage by Arum and his company in future dealings.
Arum was bragging about things like the Piers Morgan Show appearances and the fact that 24/7 replays would show on CNN as part of Pacquiao's return to HBO, and he had the audacity to take shots at the UFC taking a network TV deal?
What percentage of boxing's audience is going to be watching CNN to catch 24/7? And what percentage of the potential undecided public will randomly catch the replays while watching the lowest rated cable news network and be influenced to purchase the pay-per-view?
Now compare that to the potential audience and casual viewers who will see the UFC on Fox broadcast and have the chance to be swayed to purchase the UFC 139 PPV the following weekend?
It's the short-term "money now" approach that has led to men like Arum sending the sport of boxing from a place where it could do over seven million viewers for a fight on HBO to bragging in public about 1.5 million just a few years later.
Maybe the UFC isn't in direct "competition" with boxing, but the failures of Arum and others to learn from the long term, sport-first strategizing of the UFC are hurting it anyway.
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excellent post!
Arum reeks of desperation. He wants to sell us (the public) boxing, but the only way he knows how, is to bash the competitor for our $$$. Anyone with sales experience knows that is a terrible way to sell anything. Arum doesn’t want boxing to do well for the sake of the sport and its participants, but to line his pockets. Now, there isn’t a damn thing wrong with making money, but you also have to consider the health of your product. Unfortunately, guys like Arum and King are diseases. I have no doubt that Dana loves counting his money, but he invests a considerable effort in to making his brand the best. Yes, things could be better, but look at where the sport was 10 years ago. Now do the same thing for boxing, on a deeper scale of course, since it has been prevalent for so much longer.
And I really don’t think the boxing/mma crossover appeal is that broad. The younger fans have no problem with either sport, even the fighters. Sure there is a percentage, but I think most of the “hate” from either side is generational and we all know that will take care of itself.
by BJJDenver on Aug 25, 2011 12:08 PM EDT reply actions 11 recs
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Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Aug 26, 2011 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions
thats a spot on take
I’ve been fan of both for 15 years. Or since I was ten and boxing shoots its self in the foot more times then it gets it right. Love them both but ufc seems to be a slightly better place out side of Pac and money. Nobody seems to be really generating incpme
by Elstriko on Aug 25, 2011 12:10 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I don’t really understand this line of thinking. Boxing isn’t dead as a sport at all.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Aug 25, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure he’s implying there’s not going to be anymore boxing at some point. I’m guessing he’s implying boxing as the major combat sport is over.
Which, in reality, is completely true. Boxing no longer commands a big audience. Floyd Mayweather commands a big audience. Manny Pacqiauo commands a big audience. There’s some trickle down to a few other fighters, Mosely, Cotto, Vladdy Klitchko, but the sport itself isn’t drawing. The drop offs for non-big name events is horrific. Manny and Money can each draw upwards of a million, but not a single other in the sport can say that, and it’s entirely promoters to blame for this. I watched Manny Pacqiauo destroy Ricky Hatton in 2 rounds for $60. I couldn’t tell you another guy that fought on that event without pulling it up online.
UFC on Fox marks the realization that it is the preeminent combat sport in North America, if not the world. I’ll always love boxing. I’ll still support boxing to some level. But boxing basically cut it’s wrists with a butter knife and is bleeding out slowly in a warm tub, at least financially speaking. I don’t see very many MMA guys running around the internet trashing on boxing, at least not nearly as much as you see boxing guys bash MMA. It has to hurt to see your financial demise right in front of you and to realize you’re to blame.
Boxing as a sport is still drawing, just not as much in the US. It’s still easily the number one combat sport throughout Europe and isn’t really showing signs of slowing.
In terms of drawing power, boxing has always relied heavily on the top guy(s) to get the job done – although there is definitely less interest in the sport as a whole now than in the past.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Aug 25, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I should add to this that it’s an awkward time for the UK right now – the interest is there amongst the public, but again, as is often the case, there’s a lot of wrangling between promoters and TV networks which is slowing things. Mainland Europe is going pretty strong though.
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on Aug 25, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
nah
it will never die, it’s just in a really low end of a cycle or extended slump.
boxing will always be around and will always be alive, it’s just the way it’s handled as a business here in the U.S. is what has the general influence and popularity it used to have in the shitter.
by Victor Rodriguez on Aug 25, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Boxing is an amazing art from that should never be shit on by any MMA fan. If they want to attack anything in boxing go after the guys who have got the sport in a choke hold and are slowly killing it. Its the promoters who throw shit in MMA"s direction because they know they don’t have a prayer of leeching any money from it.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
by Riley_96 on Aug 25, 2011 12:14 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Agreed. Boxing can be extremely exciting and worth the PPV purchase. But the point of any sport is to crown the best really and we dont get to do that anymore. Not because of the sport or fighters but because of greed.
by Spider_Vemon on Aug 25, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I did too. I think mma has converted people to boxing.
by discoandherpes on Aug 25, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know about amazing.
It’s not even a comprehensive striking system. I can enjoy boxing, but mainly because their’s alot of money to be had at the upper echelons of the sport, and so there are some phenomenal athletes. But boxing leans much more to the “sport” side than the “fight” side than most other combat sports.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Aug 26, 2011 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Good piece, Brent
"Kickboxing is great. It combines the style and grace of boxing with... kicking." -- Norm MacDonald
Good read.
"No person can disobey reason, without giving up his claim to be a rational creature." - Swift
My thing with King and Arum. Their era is over
That doesn’t mean they’re not millionaires many times over. They at the age where they really don’t care about the “future”.
I'm not saying that they do
But some people care more at that age.
Very nice read!
The entire reason that premium television pays more than network deals is that HBO broke the entire setup for the sport. They overpaid for years for fights with low levels of interest, in effect bidding against themselves at every turn. Showtime had to follow suit, although to a less ridiculous degree, and now no fighter or manager will take deals that are more in the realm of reason for a fight to be broadcast. HBO has done as much damage to the sport of boxing through their pay model than any one individual.
Very interesting topic here. As much as HBO does pay more, it also takes the broadcasts out of A LOT of homes. Meanwhile he UFC is pushing to be in as many as possible.
Does anybody in boxing have a long term plan? There may be some career planning for individual fighters, but I don’t know that there is any sort of unified thoughts on the matter.
It seems like everyone lives literally fight to fight and “potential next star” to “potential next star”
You get a property that is worth something and then try to cash in on it for as long as you can. Which is solid enough if there is a good foundation and network to the overall sport at play underneath the personal interests. But it really is all about getting HBO to overpay for a fight that no one is dying to see and then taking that money and running.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 25, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Crazy!
Wouldn’t this open up an opportunity for some entrepreneur to enter the market? I mean, suppose Marc Cuban decides to get in the fight game. Couldn’t he partner up with a network like maybe TBS or USA to put fights on say once per month on Friday evenings? Then just build cards?Do Arum and King hold some kind of sway with the athletic commissions to prevent another player from entering the market?
It just seems to me that if there is market demand for regular, high quality boxing, some entrepreneur is missing the boat here. Unless there is some serious barrier to entry I ought to know about. Thoughts, Brent?
The only substitute for victory is overkill.
by Underhand Left on Aug 25, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s a good theory but the entry to the major market has just way too many hurdles to it. Namely, getting fighters of any sort of name value to sign on. Even if you use it to develop fighters, there’s no real audience for it, and it would (more than likely) fail in the ratings and no one would notice.
I’d love a recommitment to a name brand channel to put boxing back on, but the money is on a major network or a premium channel, and that’s going to end up being the downfall to any competition. You’re ability to build stars is hurt. UFC builds stars. That’s how they’ll continue to move forward.
Not to mention people like Abrum and King are a million years old.
…and while they complain, they personally do more damage than good.
What interest do King or Abrum have in assuring big paydays 20 years from now? All they want to do is cash as many big checks as possible before they die.
The sport would be better served being in the hands of promoters had intentions of making money 30, 40 or even 50 years from now.
Yay capitalism!
excellent point.
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"I’m ready. It doesn’t matter with who or where. On foot or on horseback. With maces or poleaxes. To fight. To first blood or to death. It doesn’t matter, I’m ready to fight. I went hunting. For bears. With a knife. " - Aleksander Emelianenko
by John Danaher's Hair on Aug 25, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
get rid of the stupidly huge gloves and maybe i ll watch it..
by shamo84 on Aug 25, 2011 12:48 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
To be honest, the shorts thing really bugs me too. Who wears their pants that high up? Most people have an area between their chest and their junk.. it’s called a stomach. Stop wearing your shorts so god damn high.
by Horselover Fat on Aug 25, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Seriously, Brent?
Another article about boxing? Who cares about boxing! This is an MMA bloooog!
"So even though it’s the gayest sport ever, MMA is still the best sport ever. I love my gay sport." - Wrestling Uber Alles
"If your [BJJ] training involves any part of you or training equipment inside any of your partner’s orifices, you’re doing it wrong." - gzl5000
It’s an article as much about Dana White and the way that the UFC on Fox deal shows a commitment to the betterment of the sport of MMA as it is anything.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 25, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I know. I liked it.
Should I have used the sarcasm font?
"So even though it’s the gayest sport ever, MMA is still the best sport ever. I love my gay sport." - Wrestling Uber Alles
"If your [BJJ] training involves any part of you or training equipment inside any of your partner’s orifices, you’re doing it wrong." - gzl5000
Bravo
Nice digression from the usual boxing vs MMA side of things.
Remember all those folks that said WEC lightweights simply wouldn't be able to hang in the UFC? Yeah.......
So what are people gonna watch that night?
For me, I’ll probably go with the Pacquiao fight.
I’m not certain the important parts will be on overlapping timeslots though…
The one huge advantage MMA has over boxing is the development of fighters. In MMA the best base to have is wrestling and that is a sport that is funded by nearly every high school in America and is a scholarship sport. That’s a lot of money going into developing future UFC fighters and not a cent comes out of Zuffa’s pocket. This is a huge part of the NFL’s success because they have a billion dollar minor league with million dollar facilities and great coaches that funnels 22 year old freak athletes that can come in and play right away. And the best part is it’s free for them. That’s why it’s even more important for boxing to reinvest in the amateur system because no one else is.
Some of the writers here are nothing if not elastic in their points-of-view regarding White’s commitment to the “betterment of the sport of mma.” I guess this Fox deal is as good a time as any to toy with the idea of capitulation. Zuffa and White (bluster aside) are the antithesis of Top Rank and Arum, and that’s why Boxing and MMA are heading opposite directions. Leadership matters alot.
I don’t think anyone here doubts that what White deeply cares about the betterment of the UFC (and thereby the betterment of MMA)
That being said, we are willing to call him on behavior that may hinder such attempts.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 25, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Is the UFC doing a better job than boxing in promoting and expanding their wares? I think there can’t be any doubt of that. But i also think Dana is being a little disingenuous when he accuses Arum of being greedy while casting himself as looking out for the future of the sport, especially coming on the heels of a reported FTC investigation into their practices with regards to competition. Dana and Zuffa is definitely looking out for the future and well-being of the sport, but the sport is “Ultimate Fighting” and not MMA.
by John Nash on Aug 25, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Many believe that the well-being of the sport actually aligns with Zuffa’s pursuit of profit, and that this would be a less positive phenomenon were it not for their consistent exhibition of forward-thinking, ability to execute, and sheer tenacity. I think this belief is also supported by the cluster-fuck nature of the majority of MMA promotions throughout the young life of the sport and also boxing’s recent woes which seem to have nearly de-legitimized a sport that was once monumental.
by Charlie Custer on Aug 25, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Lou DiBella has certainly softened his stance on the UFC
I went whale watching the other day. I think. There were a lot of people in that lake.
Does anyone know...
if ALL UFC on Fox cards are going to be only an hour, or is it just the first one?
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"I’m ready. It doesn’t matter with who or where. On foot or on horseback. With maces or poleaxes. To fight. To first blood or to death. It doesn’t matter, I’m ready to fight. I went hunting. For bears. With a knife. " - Aleksander Emelianenko
by John Danaher's Hair on Aug 25, 2011 1:41 PM EDT reply actions
It's just the first
Fertitta said the other shows would be longer.
I went whale watching the other day. I think. There were a lot of people in that lake.
thanks
good news.
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"I’m ready. It doesn’t matter with who or where. On foot or on horseback. With maces or poleaxes. To fight. To first blood or to death. It doesn’t matter, I’m ready to fight. I went hunting. For bears. With a knife. " - Aleksander Emelianenko
by John Danaher's Hair on Aug 25, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Great article Brent!
I know this would never happen because of the lack of cross over audience, but this article really made me wish that the UFC would promote some boxing matches. Not big name stuff, but it would be fun to watch Nick Diaz fight in a boxing match on a UFC card.
when pacman won’t fight floyd and they don’t really fight or are bound by contract to different organizations, you know everything that is wrong with boxing. the super 6 was the best thing that could’ve been done in boxing after years of however many belts across the world for however many “champions”
Gatti. Dekkers. Pele. Aoki. Kang. Vanderlei. Basillio. Harry Greb.
by theworldsoldestsport on Aug 25, 2011 2:00 PM EDT reply actions
Nice stuff
Random off topic question though, is CNN really the lowest rated Cable News Network? I just assumed it was MSNBC.
Head conductor of the Charles Oliveira hype train.
One day Roth
will get as much love as Brent. One day.
Just Breed!
by ScoreCardOTN on Aug 25, 2011 3:37 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
as a boxing fan i find this piece interesting.arum did in some ways better the sport and in some ways damaged it.he promoted some true megafights and created superstars.Sure the move to subscription tv ultimately damaged the sport but at the time it was a necessary move as boxing had massive image problems on normal tv due to the mancini/kim tragedy.Arum got lazy in the last ten years as his competition got weaker, king became sidelined and gbp was not yet a major player, my hope as a fan is his rivalry/jealousy/hatred of dana/ufc might push him into overdrive. another important factor this article leaves out is the catastrophic reign of exhbo boss seth abraham who played a big part in numbers of viewers falling.He made many dumb decisions from his contracts,his quest to make stars out of some fighters,(berto),his decision to stop producing countdown shows for fights and unfortunately there are many more.Also its a bit rich Dana calling arum greedy he doesn’t seem like a share the wealth type of dude
“All fighters are prostitutes and all promoters are pimps. "
Larry Holmes

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