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USA TODAY/MMA Nation August 2011 Consensus Rankings: Lightweight


Rank Fighter % Promotion Last Rank
1 Frankie Edgar 100 UFC 1
2 Gray Maynard 95 UFC 2
3 Gilbert Melendez 92 Strikeforce 3
4 Shinya Aoki 80 Bellator 4
5 Eddie Alvarez 73 Bellator 5
6 Clay Guida 73 UFC 7
7 Ben Henderson 69 UFC 14
8 Jim Miller 67 UFC 6
9 Melvin Guillard 62 UFC 8
10 Anthony Pettis 46 UFC 10
11 B.J. Penn 40 UFC 13
12 Tatsuya Kawajiri 40 DREAM 9
13 Sean Sherk 38 UFC 11
14 Dennis Siver 36 UFC 12
15 Rafael dos Anjos 24 UFC 16
16 Evan Dunham 23 UFC 18
17 Gleison Tibau 23 UFC 17
18 Donald Cerrone 21 UFC 23
19 Takanori Gomi 21 UFC 15
20 Jorge Masvidal 19 Strikeforce 21
21 Kenny Florian 19 UFC 19
22 Josh Thomson 18 Strikeforce 20
23 Sam Stout 18 UFC 22
24 George Sotiropoulos 15 UFC 24
25 Matt Wiman 14 UFC 27

 

UFC Fight Night: Shields vs. Ellenberger will feature #16 Evan Dunham coming off two losses trying to get back in the Win column against Shamar Bailey.

#19 Takanori Gomi will look to bounce back from his submission loss to #6 Clay Guida at UFC 135 against Nate Diaz who is riding a two fight loss streak of his own.

Those two fights are currently the only scheduled bouts featuring top 25 lightweights in September.

Star-divide

 

Based on the premise that all MMA rankings are subjective but that it’s still useful and informative to know who the online MMA community as a whole ranks as the best fighters in MMA, we collect and average the rankings of the top MMA websites to produce our consensus rankings. We compile the top MMA rankings from each of our sources and award 25 points for a first place ranking, 16 for a 10th place ranking, 1 for a 25th place ranking. A formula is used to "normalize" the data so all fighters are awarded points from those lists that do not include a full 25 fighters. This formula ensures that each ranking site awards the same number of total points regardless of how many fighters they choose to rank. Each fighter’s total is divided by the number of possible points to determine their standing in the Consensus Rankings.

155-11

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MMA Weekly make a typo or something?

The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com

by Cory Braiterman on Aug 25, 2011 7:19 PM EDT reply actions  

This list is horse dung

How can Melendez, Alvarez and Aoki take up 3 of the top 5 fighters at LW. That is complete baloney. Can’t believe I am arguing for the UFC, that is rare. None of those 3 fighters would do well in the UFC LW division IMO. They would be gatekeepers, that is all.

If heavyweight isn't the toughest division in the UFC, then why doesn't someone that can kick their asses move to it? They don’t even have to cut weight!!

by crizzy on Aug 25, 2011 10:59 PM EDT reply actions  

gil might do ok

he’s got the wrestling to hang with quite a few of the upper echelon. maybe.

The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com

by Cory Braiterman on Aug 26, 2011 1:24 AM EDT up reply actions  

Gil would do very well for sure

"Some people see the glass half full. Others see it half empty.
I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be."

by The Midge on Aug 26, 2011 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Melendez would be a great addition to LW, not a gatekeeper. Alvarez would be fun but I don’t think he’d be able to hang with top competition.

I love watching Aoki fight but ranked 4 is weird. Feels a little too high.

by Tats16 on Aug 26, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Counter point to my previous comments, but BJ is only #11? I figured he’d be higher than his WW ranking, he is only 2 fights removed from his rematch with the LW champion.

It's just a world, it's just a life.

by DirtyML on Aug 26, 2011 5:36 PM EDT reply actions  

he was only ranked by 8 of the voters

The one’s that did ranked him very high, but considering how many left him off the ballot completely, 11 is still quite impressive.

:p - orcus

Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher

by Chris Hall on Aug 26, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have him at 3

and thought about putting him over Gray. As far as I know, he hasn’t left LW entirely and is just taking interesting fights, but I can’t keep him there if he stays at WW for much longer.

"Who do you bow down to you? Does your God come in a capsule or on a plate?"

by Dallas Winston on Aug 27, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sorry

I just don’t buy Shinya Aoki as a top 5 LW in 2011.

‎"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

- Jack Layton

by Worldisart on Aug 26, 2011 5:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Aoki is in Bellator?

uh… did I miss the memo? I know I’ve been busy….

"Some people see the glass half full. Others see it half empty.
I see a glass that's twice as big as it needs to be."

by The Midge on Aug 26, 2011 5:41 PM EDT reply actions  

they’re setting up Alvarez vs Aoki 2 in Bellator.

by Tats16 on Aug 26, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think

they’re setting up Aoki V Alvarez

"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be." - Kahlil Gibran

by merryprankster on Aug 26, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Melvin over BJ Penn @ LW should just be the end of everyone voting.

It's just a world, it's just a life.

by DirtyML on Aug 26, 2011 5:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Penn hasn't fought at LW in a year

And is showing no signs of returning. Why should he be ranked over Melvin?

‎"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

- Jack Layton

by Worldisart on Aug 26, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nobody turned in a ballot ranking Guillard ahead Penn (except MMAPlayground had him one spot higher). Basically anyone who had Penn on their ballot ranked him 3 or 4. So that #11 ranking doesn’t really mean anything.

by jpayne on Aug 26, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

So why is he #11?

It's just a world, it's just a life.

by DirtyML on Aug 26, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Cause it’s a points-based system and he had the 11th highest amount of points.

by jpayne on Aug 26, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Guillard and Pettis are ahead of him even though two fights ago he fought back to back title fights with Edgar?

It's just a world, it's just a life.

by DirtyML on Aug 26, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you have blinders on?

Cause you just seem to deliberately ignore that he hasn’t fought in the weightclass in a year. Or to put it a little different, he hasn’t had a win at 155 in almost two years.

‎"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

- Jack Layton

by Worldisart on Aug 26, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those points seem beside the point

The reason he’s at 11 is that not many rankers even ranked him.

However, Dirtyml is still blatantly ignoring the nature of the consensus rankings anyway.

:p - orcus

Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher

by Chris Hall on Aug 26, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

And the reason no many ranked him is because he hasn’t fought in the weightclass in a year!

‎"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

- Jack Layton

by Worldisart on Aug 26, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

I don’t really get the point of ranking him at all at this point since he has a WW bout scheduled, hasn’t fought in the division in a year, and seems to have zero intentions of returning to LW.

:p - orcus

Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher

by Chris Hall on Aug 26, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

*ranking him at all in LW

for clarification

:p - orcus

Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher

by Chris Hall on Aug 26, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Playground is actually a bunch of different people voting.

Bolts from the Blue // "I eat cereal out of a giant novelty wine glass because it makes me feel fancy." - Britney Wade
Bloody Elbow // "I think we're poking fun at Leland's 'boner.'" - Michael Fagan

by Richard Wade on Aug 26, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im just glad that people put Gumby in at number 7

"I don't think strength plays that big of a difference. If it's that big of a difference, then the elephant would be the king of the jungle, not the lion."- Anderson "The Spider" Silva

by RJshock 305 on Aug 26, 2011 5:43 PM EDT reply actions  

if you keep beating scrubs

forever and ever do you just stay where you are ranked? how can any UFC fighter jump over aoki or alvarez if they never lose fighting scrubs and people keep rewarding them fighting scrubs?

by dbcb on Aug 26, 2011 5:54 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree

Neither fighter has any business being ranked in the top 5.

‎"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

- Jack Layton

by Worldisart on Aug 26, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Get a f’n clue.

Aoki fought 2 Top 10 LWs last year, that’s exactly 1 more than Henderson,Guillard&Pettis have fought in their entire careers.

Aoki has fought more Top 10 LWs than any other LW (incl. Penn) in his career.

by KOQ24 on Aug 26, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes. The only way to get above them is for aoki or alvarez to lose or to beat Maynard or Edgar. See Barnett, Josh

by Phildo on Aug 27, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

BREAKING NEWS: P4P lists are subjective

I still can’t believe that everyone’s surprised that Aoki, Melendez, and Alvarez are in the top 5 even though they haven’t beaten another ranked fighter in a long time. It’s the same reason why Jacare/Diaz/Overeem/Lombard are ranked so highly even though they have been beating a bunch of cans.

by savik on Aug 26, 2011 6:00 PM EDT reply actions  

This isn't a P4P list

‎"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

- Jack Layton

by Worldisart on Aug 26, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

*Ranking Lists..Doesn’t matter, both are subjective and you still got the point. And Werdum was his first mma win in over a year and he’s ranked 3rd? Bullshit. Also, he was still ranked in the top 10 even before the fight. Please explain why that is. And while you’re at it, why don’t you address the other fighters I listed?

by savik on Aug 26, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh and on the topic of Overeem

I didn’t realize Werdum is a can.

‎"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

- Jack Layton

by Worldisart on Aug 26, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

he isnt and never has been the 3rd best heavyweight in the world

rankings are pretty dumb sometimes

"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva

by milk72 on Aug 26, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I never claimed he was

But whatever you may think of the fight itself, he beat Werdum who was definitely a top 5 HW at the time.

‎"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

- Jack Layton

by Worldisart on Aug 26, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Aoki is not remotely top 5

I mean it’s preposterous that he’s ranked that high. He’d get murdered by any good striker.

I went whale watching the other day. I think. There were a lot of people in that lake.

by SSreporters on Aug 26, 2011 6:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Like Eddie Alvarez?

"Who do you bow down to you? Does your God come in a capsule or on a plate?"

by Dallas Winston on Aug 26, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

lol at this list

3-5 is just absurd

"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva

by milk72 on Aug 26, 2011 6:03 PM EDT reply actions  

Most of the list is just stupid.

It's just a world, it's just a life.

by DirtyML on Aug 26, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

yep

i mean kawajiri and sherk at 12 and 13? when was the last time either of them beat even beat anyone let alone a good fighter

"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva

by milk72 on Aug 26, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

sherk kinda beat dunham almost a year ago....

:p - orcus

Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher

by Chris Hall on Aug 26, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha, what a robbery that was. Probably why he’s getting fed Shamar Bailey to pad the ol’ W-L record.

by jpayne on Aug 26, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

It wasn't a robbery

It was a close fight.

Terms like “can” and “robbery” get thrown around way to casually.

‎"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

- Jack Layton

by Worldisart on Aug 26, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe it wasn’t as bad as Garcia-Phan, but it wasn’t as close as something like Sanchez-Kampmann. Dunham won that fight.

by jpayne on Aug 26, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

It wasn’t a robbery.

‎"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

- Jack Layton

by Worldisart on Aug 26, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dunham won the fight hands down.

Close fight doesn’t matter a wins a win. So it was a robbery. Given this is s bad example and I hate NASCAR but if they gave the second place a win cause he was close it’d b s robbery thus so was that fight.

"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, Or close the wall up with our English dead! In peace there's nothing so becomes a man As modest stillness and humility; But when the blast of war blows in our ears, Then imitate the action of the tiger: Stiffen the sinews, summon up the blood."
~William Shakespeare
"War is a bloody, killing business. You've got to spill their blood, or they will spill yours. Rip them up the belly. Shoot them in the guts."
~George S. Patton, Jr.
"The times we laughed, the times we cried, the times we fought and even lied, when the shit hits the fan and rounds spark up and fly. I am your brother as you are mine."
~Sgt. R. Jones R.I.P You will not be forgotten U.S.M.C Semper Fidelis

by Bloodsport on Aug 26, 2011 10:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

So ...

getting dominated in the first round, picked up and power slammed and gashed open with elbows is a “robbery”?

Robbery is a clear example of unquestionable wrong, and that’s just not the case.

"Who do you bow down to you? Does your God come in a capsule or on a plate?"

by Dallas Winston on Aug 27, 2011 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

I scored Sherk x Dunham a draw

by the way.

"Who do you bow down to you? Does your God come in a capsule or on a plate?"

by Dallas Winston on Aug 27, 2011 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

I remember I said it was a close fight and it got a bunch of people angry. It just happened though so it was still fresh and the Dunham train was still on the tracks.

by Tats16 on Aug 26, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sherk “beat” Dunham last September, who was ranked at #9.
Rankings only count official results.

by KOQ24 on Aug 26, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly why rankings are stupid

"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva

by milk72 on Aug 26, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Errrr

You realize that Kawajiri was the undisputed #2 LW in the world at one time? And Sherk wasn’t far behind when he became champ and the UFC got back in the LW game?

And Sherk’s only lost to Edgar and Penn at LW. Why wouldn’t he be that high?

"Who do you bow down to you? Does your God come in a capsule or on a plate?"

by Dallas Winston on Aug 26, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Inactivity?

I think the man is a beast and a challenge for anyone but you gotta admit he really needs to get back in the cage more often.

‎"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

- Jack Layton

by Worldisart on Aug 26, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, OK

but “inactivity” is why he’s dropped despite still having better records and more legit wins than others.

"Who do you bow down to you? Does your God come in a capsule or on a plate?"

by Dallas Winston on Aug 26, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

sherk has one fight in almost two and a half years

and kawajiri has gone 2-2 against good competition in that time (sorry wins over drew fickett, kazunori yokota, dont qualify as good competition)

"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva

by milk72 on Aug 26, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again, Kawajiri was the #2 LW in the world

So he’s undoubtedly earned his top spot. That means he drops in increments for losing to other fighters who are rightfully now ranked above him.

I mean, everyone realizes that 100% of the LW rankings shifted overseas when the UFC closed their LW division, right?

"Who do you bow down to you? Does your God come in a capsule or on a plate?"

by Dallas Winston on Aug 26, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’m with you, I don’t get the complaints about Gilbert Melendez and Shinya Aoki’s positions in the rankings. Since 2008, Aoki is 13-2-1 at LW while facing 5 fighters ranked in the top 10 and 4 more in the top 25. Who behind him at Lw has a more impressive schedule? And since 2008, Melendez has beaten Aoiki, Kawajirii, and Thomson. The only one that seems overrated is Alverez, and I think that’s more because of the strength of his schedule and not his actual skills. After seeing him destroy Huerta and Neer, any objective person is going to admit he could “hang” in the UFC.

If the WEC fighters success tells us anything its that the LW pool was so splintered all these years that no one really has a clue where anyone stands.

by John Nash on Aug 26, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

He’s fought and dominated JZ Calvacante and Josh Thomson (still the last person to defeat Melendez) in addition to those two victories. You’re selectively leaving things out to fit your argument. A sign you’ve already lost. Get a grip.

"Referees, be sure to step in and stop the fight on time tomorrow, because I might get carried away in the moment and my many punches may end up destroying my opponent." - Tatsuya "CRUSHER" Kawajiri

by andrew861 on Aug 26, 2011 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just ...

why?

I’m down to discuss, but “just absurd” isn’t the most reasonable starting point.

"Who do you bow down to you? Does your God come in a capsule or on a plate?"

by Dallas Winston on Aug 26, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think..

All three of those fighters exist in this vacuum where they are fighting guys who have no business being in the ring/cage with them and as a result they never lose so those doing the ranking are hesistant to drop them.

My argument is they aren’t getting wins that reinforce their current ranking and they should drop down the ladder because of it.

‎"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

- Jack Layton

by Worldisart on Aug 26, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

wat

Gil just fought Crusher, Aoki, and Thomson. That is literally the best possible competition he can hope to face being outside the UFC.

Same with Aoki — he recently fought Crusher and Gil, along with Hirota before that (who had just cracked the top 10) and Beerbohm in Strikeforce. Knowing he’s unable to fight anyone in the UFC, who else should these guys be fighting then?

"Who do you bow down to you? Does your God come in a capsule or on a plate?"

by Dallas Winston on Aug 26, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's the problem
That is literally the best possible competition he can hope to face being outside the UFC.

The competition is just a bunch of recycled fights.

I get that for various reasons all those guys are unable to fight in the UFC, but that doesn’t mean they should get pat on the back rankings and put in the top 5. It may not be their fault that their recent records don’t reflect their ranking, but that doesn’t make it any less true.

‎"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

- Jack Layton

by Worldisart on Aug 26, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ranking UFC vs. non-UFC fighters has always been the cardinal issue

And someone will complain no matter what. But I don’t think their current position over guys like Guida and Miller is outrageous when you compare records and competition.

"Who do you bow down to you? Does your God come in a capsule or on a plate?"

by Dallas Winston on Aug 26, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think there was a time not long ago where it was a big issue

I think now that the UFC has consolidated the majority of the top talent under one banner, not fighting in the UFC should be a fairly sizeable knock against a fighter. I’m not saying it should render a fighter completely irrelevant, and I think there is an argument to be made for Gil’s position in these rankings, but we’re no longer in an era where there is thriving major league level MMA occuring with any kind regularity outside the Zuffa umbrella.

‎"My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we'll change the world."

- Jack Layton

by Worldisart on Aug 26, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, it's always been there

From the Pride days to the Strikeforce days, and the UFC’s business decision is influencing everyone. Sure, it will, but where do you draw the line there?

I look at their decision to completely vanquish the LW division equally with their power over it now. They chose to get out of the LW business all together, so the result is that they have to slowly draw the power back from overseas.

Again, they just crowned their 1st champion 5 years ago, so it’s a little unfair to make all the fighters quickly conform to the UFC’s policy or get left out in the cold.

"Who do you bow down to you? Does your God come in a capsule or on a plate?"

by Dallas Winston on Aug 26, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok here we go

alvarez and aoki in particular havent fought top competition or put any real quality wins under their belt since the top lw competition was over in japan

ranking them above guys who are out fighting in the ufc and looking great against top competition and even losing such as jim miller, melvin guillard, ben henderson, and guida doesnt make much sense to me

in the current landscape of mma i think its damn near impossible to go out and say your a top 5 fighter at any division without fighting under the higher pressure, opponents and platform that the UFC provides

gils good though im ok with him being 3, as with nick diaz being ranked highly and im on the fence about overeem but you can rank him top 5 since the division sucks

"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva

by milk72 on Aug 26, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure they have
alvarez and aoki in particular havent fought top competition or put any real quality wins under their belt since the top lw competition was over in japan

If you admit the top talent was established overseas, they were the top competition, and they’ve all fought each other. So there ya go.

ranking them above guys who are out fighting in the ufc and looking great against top competition and even losing such as jim miller, melvin guillard, ben henderson, and guida doesnt make much sense to me

Feel free to justify why the wins/losses of Miller, Guillard, and Guida are more impressive than theirs.


in the current landscape of mma i think its damn near impossible to go out and say your a top 5 fighter at any division without fighting under the higher pressure, opponents and platform that the UFC provides

Then you’re just effectively saying the top 5 can only be UFC fighters, which doesn’t really leave much room for discussion. I don’t see how you can even say that when the UFC just crowned their first champ 5 years ago abandoning the entire weight class.

"Who do you bow down to you? Does your God come in a capsule or on a plate?"

by Dallas Winston on Aug 26, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

^ *after* abandoning

"Who do you bow down to you? Does your God come in a capsule or on a plate?"

by Dallas Winston on Aug 26, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

its not exactly like the guys who made their names in japan have holded up well

lets look at sherdogs rankings from sept 2007

1. Gomi
2. Gil
3. JZ
4. Kawajiri
5. Vitor Riberio
6. Sherk
7. Ishida
8. Hansen
9. BJ
10. Stevenson

now this is when japan was the top in lw talent and looking at the list literally nobody is still around and fighting as a top 10 lw (except Gil, which again im ok with his placement) . japan hasnt exactly produced any new fighters since then and its pretty obvious in my mind that the top talent in the lw division resides in the UFC. alvarez and aoki earned their rankings by beating many of the guys on this list then held it by fighting mediocre competition for the past 2 years

the UFC has by far the best talent in the lw division at this point, and to not rank their fighters as the best and leaving guys like aoki and alvarez who havent been doing anything to deserve being ranked as highly as they are is rather dumb in my opinion.

"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva

by milk72 on Aug 26, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

They are ranked as the best

Which is why Frankie and Gray are at the top.

Your basis seems to be by promotion. All you have to do is justify why Guida, Miller, and Guillard have a better record overall than them. I’m not saying you can’t make that case, I’m just saying you haven’t … and it’s really the only point other than recognizing that the non-UFC group unquestionably began ahead of them.

"Who do you bow down to you? Does your God come in a capsule or on a plate?"

by Dallas Winston on Aug 26, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alvarez is a mystery, but Aoki is a solid top-5. The dude looks like he’s taking fighting seriously lately. Him against any of the top 10 would be a brawl worth watching.

.....
Get on board the Jake Train® . Next stop: Fight Night 25® Winner's Circle!

by Scabby Knuckle on Aug 26, 2011 6:18 PM EDT reply actions  

this is a joke

aoki should not be before anyone who could remotely strike/box

Miller/Bendo/Alvarez need a bump.

Guida’s stock will naturally shoot down to oblivion once he faces a top tier person.

by elmojo on Aug 26, 2011 6:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Alvarez can strike and look what happened in the first fight.

by Tats16 on Aug 26, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess with your type of logic

Wandy should contend with Jon Jones for the LHW title since he beat Rampage twice

by elmojo on Aug 26, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

huh

Rampage avenged himself, Alvarez hasn’t.

You said “aoki should not be before anyone who could remotely strike/box” but that doesn’t mean he can’t submit them?

by Tats16 on Aug 26, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here are 10 my picks

Definite top 3
Edgar
Maynard
El Nino
Debatable next 3
Alvarez
Bendo
Miller
Open to discussion next 3
Melvin
Cerrone
Siver

by elmojo on Aug 26, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

siver isnt a top 10 fighter

im not on that bandwagon at all he lost to wiman (in my mind at least), and got outstruck by ross pearson not too long ago

i wanna see him fight donald cerrone very badly

"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva

by milk72 on Aug 26, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why is Florian still in these rankings? He has already fought at 145 once, and is scheduled to fight the champion next… get him out of here.

Aoki isn’t a top 5 LW.

Where is Jeremy Stephens? Won 4 of 5, including a win over Sam Stout, and his only loss was a close fight with Melvin Guillard. I have him way above Gomi at this point.

by dpk875 on Aug 26, 2011 6:37 PM EDT reply actions  

It’s funny that Aoki&Alvarez apparently shouldn’t be in the Top 5 yet nobody can point out why.

by KOQ24 on Aug 26, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have no problem with Alvarez.

Aoki recently got knocked out by a kickboxer who doesn’t even fight MMA. You can say what you want about the special rules… but the KO happened during the MMA portion of the fight. Since then he has beaten some guys who are not even close to top 25 fighters. Based on his overall body of work, I’d rank him at 11, and take BJ Penn off this list (His last 2 fights, and next announced fight are at WW, what a waste of a spot on this list). I’m not going to reward Aoki while the other guys around him fight guys on this list consistently.

I hope the Aoki/Alvarez fight happens they need each other at this point in there careers.

by dpk875 on Aug 26, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't get it

1. It wasn’t even an MMA fight

2. How is getting knocked out by a pure striking specialist a terrible thing?

3. It was a few seconds into the MMA portion of the match after a few minutes of all striking

4. Aoki has been fighting consistently: 5x in ’09, 4x in ’10, 2x this year. To compare against a seemingly “busy” fighter, Jim Miller fought the exact same schedule except only 3x in ’09.

"Who do you bow down to you? Does your God come in a capsule or on a plate?"

by Dallas Winston on Aug 27, 2011 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

Here is BE’s 1st LW meta rankings:
1. Takanori Gomi 28.17
2. Gesias Calvancante 23.17
3. Sean Sherk 20.5
4. BJ Penn 17.67
5. Gilbert Melendez 15.33
6. Mitsuhiro Ishida 13
7. Shinya Aoki 10.5
8. Tatsuya Kawajiri 8.67
9. Joe Stevenson 8.33
10. Hayato Sakurai 7.83
11. Roger Huerta 6
12. Nick Diaz 3
13. Vitor Ribeiro 2
14. Joachim Hansen 0.33
15. Kenny Florian 0.33
16. Frank Edgar 0.17

The only fighters still in the top 10 from this list are
Edgar, Melendez, and Aoki.
Since the day that was published, Jan 11, 2008 this is how the current top 5 has fared in comparison to their compatriots
Edgar is 5-1-1 and knocking Sherk and Penn out of hte top 10 (or LW div in BJs case).
Maynard is 7-01 and has beaten Edgar and Miller.
Melendez is 6-1 and has beaten Kawajarii, Aoki, and Ishida
Aoki is 13-2-1 at LW and beat #2 JZ, Kawajirii, Ribeiro, and avenged a loss to Hansen.
Alvarez is 11-1 with wins over Kawajirri, Hansen, and Huerta and only lost to Aoki.

See how that kind of works: the fighters still on the list are there because they beat the other guys. Maynard and Alvarez got on the list by beating guys who were previously there. It seems to be working the way you’d imagine it’s supposed to.

by John Nash on Aug 26, 2011 7:29 PM EDT reply actions   2 recs

Word

Great post.

"Who do you bow down to you? Does your God come in a capsule or on a plate?"

by Dallas Winston on Aug 26, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

By the way

Aoki and Kawajiri are both fighting at DREAM 17 on 9-24.

"Who do you bow down to you? Does your God come in a capsule or on a plate?"

by Dallas Winston on Aug 31, 2011 12:21 PM EDT reply actions  

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