UFC's Matt Serra Joins PED Talk, Says Most Fighters Use
by Brent Brookhouse on Aug 19, 2011 12:19 PM EDT
in UFC Quotes
Email
Print
Just a few days after Krzysztof Soszynski came out with the very strong statement that he believed that 85 to 95 percent of fighters are on some sort of performance enhancing drug, another UFC fighter is chiming in. PEDs in MMA have turned into an issue that just won't go away and when one fighter talks about them, it seems there are always others who are spurred on to talk about it as well. This time it was former UFC welterweight champ Matt Serra jumping into the fray in a recent TapouT Radio interview (via MMA Weekly):
"It's wrong man, it's really wrong. Let me tell you something. I got to the title without doing anything. I didn't use anything," Serra commented. "Me and BJ Penn are in that small percentage that don't do (expletive). There's a lot of guys that are considered legends, and they're doing the GH and doing this and that, and it's obvious, it's freaking obvious."
...
"It's one thing if you're fighting for an hour, but you got 15 minutes in there. There's certain teams out there that look like they got a freaking chemist assigned to them," said Serra. "It's not that I want to judge anybody, but hey man, I'm fighting these people. Next thing you know you're in there fighting a guy with unlimited energy that looks like a He-Man figure. I don't give a (expletive) if it's happening in baseball, but when a guy can kick your head off, someone can get hurt. There's a chance for serious bodily harm."
The KSos statement had some people upset that he was "making up statistics" but he was giving the number that he believed to be using. There's a difference between giving a percentage you believe, based on close personal experience and talking to peers in the sport, and making up statistics. Similarly, Serra is likely basing what he is saying on personal experience, and it's more than simply that other guys are "bigger than he is."
Given the kind of stuff that you hear when you are around the sport enough, it's hard to put up much of an argument that the percentage of guys using isn't very high. It's just a reality of the game. These guys aren't heroes, they're professional athletes trying to compete for a very limited number of spots where someone can make a livable income. There's no reason to assume they'd think in terms different than athletes from any other sport.
203 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
KSos’ number he threw out there just seemed a bit far fetched… That would basically mean MMA has the same PED rate as weightlifting…
Serra’s comments are nothing out of the norm for when people bring this up. I just can’t help but wonder why if it’s so widespread and well-known, why commissions don’t seem to give a shit about better testing. Sure, it will cost more money… But didn’t Nevada’s commission just receive extra money for that sole purpose, to start random drug testing and stuff? It just seems like it’s swept under the table by people. Even Dana doesn’t really seem to give a shit, other than when it affects a fighter’s ability to get licensed for a fight.
AKA zakkree. Twitter.
Conductor and sole passenger on the Fitch bandwagon.
I think I meant swept under the rug.
AKA zakkree. Twitter.
Conductor and sole passenger on the Fitch bandwagon.
by Zachary Kater on Aug 19, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
why dont they care?
Fighters will fight fewer times a year and their careers will be shortened. Then everyone involved makes less money.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 10:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
BJ Penn fights an average amount of times
And Chris Leben (I doubt he uses any banned substance) will fight, and has fought, within two weeks of his last fight.
Let the fighters fight, let the referees ref, but dear God, don't let the judges judge.
Like Serra said. Steroids + combat sports is a dangerous combination. And if you don’t treat it as a real issue or even legalize it as some suggest, that really is unfair to those who don’t want to or can’t use.
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
Everytime they switch the testing up
Everytime they switch the testing up someone new gets popped. Look at Thiago Silva, do you think that is the first time he was submitting fake urine? Look at Josh Barnett, they did out of competition testing on him before the Fedor fight and he failed.
Actually the last time T Silva didn’t take a back injection he got beat by Evans, but with that said could be possible. He has a documented back issue and from what i have read what he took would have been legal. The biggest question mark i have heard about him is that the type of injections he described are not common for back issues. Until blood testing comes in we will just be throwing rocks hoping to hit the right target.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
He has a documented back issue and from what i have read what he took would have been legal. The biggest question mark i have heard about him is that the type of injections he described are not common for back issues.
You and Dr. Benjamin (MMA Junkie’s “Ask the Fight Doc”) are both wrong about this.
I should clarify that – what Dr. Benjamin cited as the preferred and legitimate treatment (“a specially trained physician carefully injects a combination of corticosteroid (not a prohibited substance vs. anabolic steroids, which are prohibited) and a short-acting anesthetic (lidocaine) into the spinal canal, specifically the epidural space.”) is absolutely correct as far as the treatment, but corticosteroids are absolutely banned and require a TUE just like TRT or any other drug on the Prohibited List.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Aug 19, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
See and here he is again showing me up yet educating me at the same time. Thanks for the info, so basically he needed to fill out the proper paper work and he would have been fine or is this another one of those loops hole type deals in which he can use something illegal as ;long as he has the right dr’s note
I’d rather just climb this fridge
Didn’t mean for that to sound dick-ish to you, sorry. But yes, that is all he would have needed to do. The suspicions came I think because he/his agent/his manager/maybe his physician should have known that a TUE was available and needed for that, and, with the presumption that they did, the thinking of some is that he was hiding something else under the pretext of hiding that.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Aug 19, 2011 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions
LOL not dickish at all. Look around for a guy who was saying something to Gentle_way about not knowing nothing about sports, i was talking about a comment i made about a discussion we have had before in which me and you talked about TRT and such. Its quite a bit below this.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
Once UFC is on FOX and there's tons of eyes on the promotion they need to
figure out some sort of better policy… the govt will see these big bucks and want to just take a look at thinga bit more closer and that’s when the problems will start.
They didn't do that when Elite XC was pulling big CBS ratings, so...
by Machiel Van on Aug 19, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions
Elite XC wasn't around that long... and they weren't pulling in HUGE bucks & advertisers.
Good #‘s yes Good $’s NO…. If they were in the Black and making big bucks then the KO of Kimbo wouldn’t have been enough to make them fold.
Nah
Steroid use is rampant in the NFL and no one has made a peep about that. MLB just had some unfortunate events come to light, otherwise people would have looked the other way on that too.
by Pantherhare on Aug 19, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
My Point was.........
The NFL, MLB, NBA…. yeah rampant PED usage… BUT these Organizations HAVE a drug policy and reoccuring drug testing and wellness programs in place to protect themselves and they still get heat… what does ZUFFA have commision drug testing according to what state there in… it’s not enough.
Sanctioned MMA is already regulated by the government independently of promotional organizations
so in the government’s eyes that’s probably better than the internal commissions of other sports. The testing is laughable, but it’s still the government doing it, so…
That
Is why Dana so desperately clings to that “government” angle, as well he should (from a management perspective).
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Aug 19, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Say Word.
It’s good that some guys are making a statement as opposed to remaining silent. I like Phil Baroni’s take on drugs in MMA. I’m paraphrasing, “I used some, everybody does.” Ken Shamrock feels the same way.
People were upset that Soszynski offered an OBVIOUSLY fake statistic? I find that odd. Do people actually think he sat there and calculated some figures and decided to reveal his findings?
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
True
but there’s another side to it as well. When a whole lot of baseball athletes started pointing the finger at one another, it really, really hurt the image of the sport. If every big name MMA star is talking about the rampant PED use in the sport, and especially throwing out numbers like 95%, it does not make MMA look good at all. I think the burden is on promoters to up the penalty for PED use and not just leave it to the Athletic Commissions. If you’re an MMA fighter look at the examples: Josh Barnett has been caught THREE TIMES AND SUNK AN ENTIRE PROMOTION, and still got a prominent spot in the Strikeforce HW GP. Leben was popped and suspended, but it didn’t hurt his career much. Thiago Silva will be right back in a high profile bout when his suspension is up. They sent a good message with the Marquardt firing (though the fact they knew about the testosterone before hand indicates they wouldn’t of cared had the event been salvaged), but an awful, awful one with the Chael situation. My point is, if I’m an MMA fighter who is considering PEDs, I’m looking at the worst-case scenario and it doesn’t look so bad, which is terrible.
by Machiel Van on Aug 19, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
What I'm trying to say is
more and more fighters saying" everyone’s on PEDs in MMA" will solve nothing and will tarnish the sports image. When I see statements like Serra’s and BJ’s, I ask “what did this accomplish?” and the answer seems to ALWAYS be “nothing.” Promoters need to make the punishments for PED use astronomical, so that it really is a deterrent and becomes too risky. I understand Dana’s “everyone makes mistakes” mantra, but a lot of people make mistakes and end up in jail, so… yeah.
by Machiel Van on Aug 19, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Tarnish the Sports Image? I say no.
Question: How many guys on the Yankees roster were linked to ’ROIDS?
Answer: Did the sports media wildy celebrate the Yankees last World Series win? Did they attach an asterisk to the victory considering A-Rod was a major proponent during the playoffs?
Even after all the crap with Bonds, McGuire, Sosa, Big Papi, etc. fans are still going to the ballparks to watch America’s Greatest Pasttime.
Drugs, Alcohol, Numerous Police Arrests, Concussions, Wife Beatings, Alleged Rapes, etc. does not stop or badly tarnish the image of the NFL. The SuperBowl still generates huge ad revenues.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Aug 19, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, if a lot of high profile players were openly saying "I believe 95% of NFL players beat their wives, do drugs, etc."
it might be a bit different. If you don’t think that MLB’s image was greatly affected by the steroid reveal, you are misinformed.
HOnestly I’m not a huge baseball fan but even after the big scandal involving A-Rod, Clemens, Pettite, etc.
- The New York press celebrated the World Series Win like nothing happened.
- I don’t recall the Yankees organization complaining about trying to sell tickets.
Yeah, I don’t know.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on Aug 22, 2011 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I can't wait until we get 90% of the fighters saying:
“I bet 90% of these guys are using…but I’m not!”
Either spend a bunch of money and test the shit out of these guys – randomly, multiple times a year, blood/urine…or legalize it and monitor it.
Either way, someone send me some HGH and Test so I can start wearing Affliction and Tapout.
BOOSH
i hate the tool bags that ruined wearing tap out for me.
I liked them they were simple. Now I don’t wanna be associated with the dudes that wear them.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 10:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Serra is probably referring to the guy that most recently beat both he and Penn.
by sexysassytravismmafan on Aug 19, 2011 10:12 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
i do
And agree.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 10:21 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Says the noted Penn fan and GSP hater…
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
i support steroid use homie.
I don’t support bad jits and points fighting :-p .
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 10:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
or i support the idea of them i should say.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 11:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Well what do you think about what i said above?
Some fighters won’t want to use at all, period. Having to inject/consume chemicals is not something athletes should reasonably be expected to have to do in order to simply be on fair ground if they don’t want to.
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
Some fighters don't want to train.
But they do it anyway.
"So even though it’s the gayest sport ever, MMA is still the best sport ever. I love my gay sport." - Wrestling Uber Alles
That’s completely different.
It’s entirely reasonable to expect a fighter to work hard and train. To take drugs, no not so much.
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
I don't really see how it is.
Like any career, there are pros and cons. There will be things you like and things you don’t. You either (a) suck it up and do it anyway, (b) work around it and do the best you can, or © find something else to do.
"So even though it’s the gayest sport ever, MMA is still the best sport ever. I love my gay sport." - Wrestling Uber Alles
How about option D)
Not comparing working out to injecting chemicals into your body that may or may shorten your life span, since most of this shit is so new that nobody really knows what the side effects are
its a weight class sport.
It’s not like Bj has to fight MegaReem. If it was still open weight classes I would feel their pain more. But the fact is being around the same weight keeps things pretty even. The strength difference should be pretty even if their weights are close and both are in shape. Some are smaller and faster. Some bigger and stronger. Everything has a trade off.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 12:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
deal with it grand pa.
;-)
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 12:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
lol
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 12:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m guessing you support quitting on the stool too :p
I’d rather just climb this fridge
by Riley_96 on Aug 19, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
As an impartial third party…burn…
by Afrotikiman on Aug 19, 2011 12:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I got a bridge in Brooklyn I want to sell you
If you don’t think they’re talking about GSP and guys like him with the “unlimited energy…got a chemist on their team” etc comments….I don’t know what to tell you
I'M MADDER N HALE!!
Right here is the thing that bothers me. People start getting specific with no evidence or proof, and innocent until proven guilty goes out the window and that really is BS. It inevitably leads to innocent people getting thrown under the bus unfairly. Did you know GSP is one of the few fighters in UFC history to be subject to stringent blood testing.. and passed? And go look at his first few fights on youtube. The guy has had the same gas tank and physique since he was a teenager.
The other problem here is treating fighters themselves as a reliable source. These guys are obviously not going to be fair and objective. Of course Serra wants to imply GSP is a cheater. Because that’s the only reason he got his ass kicked right? They’re too emotionally invested.
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
The thing with the accusations are that many of them aren’t “I faced guys who did steroids.” A lot of them are from seeing things at gyms they trained at. Like with Askren "I’ve been training at a lot of gyms – I’ve been all over the place — and the fact is steroids and performance-enhancing drugs (PEDs) run rampant through the MMA world. "
Same with the ‘not accusing themselves" statements. Dennis Hallman threw out that ’at least 50%’ and he’s admitted to use. Soszynski sort of hinted at it prior to MMA in his statement.
This turned into a bit of a rant...
Well that’s a bit different, but even in cases of accusations that aren’t directly or indirectly aimed in a specific direction, the issue remains.
Here’s the thing. Fighters aren’t the only guys at gyms, right? Fighters aren’t the only people deeply entwined in the MMA world. They aren’t the only people who should have access to this kind of information. But it’s pretty much only fighters who come out with this stuff AFAIK.
Why is that? Well, whether or not they are specific in their claims and accusations, by their basic human nature, fighters have reason to want other fighters to be on PEDs. If PEDs are so rampant, every win for these fighters making the accusations is that much more impressive, and every lose has an explanation and was unfair. Conformation bias is a bitch. It’s like with a UFO enthusiast. A hint of something extraterrestrial, some weird light or shadow in the sky, and it’s a UFO. They want the UFOs, so the UFOs exist despite the realities of the situation. They are quick to make assumptions and take things for granted. The same pitfalls apply to the fragile human ego and it’s need to rationalize away a battering. Probably more so in this case. Most fighters have to operate with the idea in their head that they’re the best, and losing is not something they handle well. It’s no surprise that they need some explanation. And the assumption of steroid use serves that purpose perfectly
Now, that’s not at all to say none of these guys have a clue as to what the hell they’re talking about. Of course some of these claims will be legit. But it’s just true that this kind of stuff i’m talking about happens when you’re dealing with people. That’s why i’m so skeptical of these sorts of claims. Some are true, others will be way overblown, others will be complete BS.. Without proof it’s impossible to tell which is which.
Also, what i want to know is how do these fighters know so much? What does Askren really know and how does he know it? Do they have injections in the middle of these gyms hes been to? Do they talk about it openly? The mark of PEDs could be present in every gym in MMA, but that doesn’t mean every fighter in every gym is involved.
I could go on, but it’s all way to flimsy for me to buy into without major reservations.
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
by Goonisis on Aug 19, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You make a lot of valid points, but the opposite could also be said.
As for how fighters know, guys go from camp to camp to camp, from coach to coach to coach, from partner to partner to partner. They all pretty much know who is clean and who isn’t.
As was stated yesterday, this usage isn’t really hidden or even taboo. If you are a part of that culture, you are aware of what goes on in a gym.
You’re not really helping me here. Fighters get around, so they know? But still, how specifically do they actually know? Do they see specific people using? Do people admit to it? I’ve long wanted an answer to this question but the best i always seem to get is basically ‘everyone knows each other’. Sounds a lot more about what people hear and assume then what the actually know to me.
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
For instance
Fighters often talk about weight cutting techniques. At first they are don’t tell anyone, this is our secret weight cutting style, blah, blah, blah. Next thing you know, everyone is doing it.
Same can be said for PEDs, especially with teammates who at some point go their separate ways. Stuff just gets spread, especially amongst people who are all doing it one way or another.
Fighter A trains at Jackson’s and a practice is common there, they then come to Grudge and that practice is now spread. On and On.
I think the mistake you may be making is thinking that this usage is all secretive. In reality, it is very out in the open and just kind of an accepted reality, so few even bother to talk about it.
That is why, as I said above, when fighters talk about it, they usually don’t do it in a judgmental way as it is common and greatly accepted.
They're just fighters, who actually are a part of that culture
What do they know, right?
I'M MADDER N HALE!!
Other fighters think GSP used
And it sounds like they are accusing Jackson of being a steroid factory.
That’s all it means. It doesn’t mean that he does, just that a suspicion exists. Take it for what it is.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
by Neil Manich on Aug 19, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
When was GSP stringently blood tested?
I really am curious, because one of his former camp members told me he is an hgh user. The person who told me has zero reason to lie or make anything up and has nothing against GSPand didn’t bash him for using, but rather stated it in the context that it was a common and accepted practice. He didn’t so much accuse GSP. but let it slip while discussing PED usage in MMA. This guy is a UFC fighter and not even in the same weight class as GSP.
Sorry, but in the culture we live in, I am far more inclined to believe fighter X is using when that is what the signs and accusations point to.
And anyone who is familiar with Serra, knows he isn’t the sort to just go around hurling random accusations.
There’s a huge wrestling influence in MMA now, and wrestlers tend to think about their bodies and their health a little bit differently than other athletes. Wrestling, more than, say, baseball or football, is a lifestyle. Wrestlers tend to be in tune with their bodies more than other athletes — it’s nothing for a wrestler to be able to estimate his weight within a 1/4 pound at any given moment in any given clothes. It’s my gut instinct, for whatever it’s worth (not much, I know), that wrestlers will be less likely to use PEDs than the non-wrestlers in MMA. To the extent that there are a few guys not drugging up, I suspect they’ll mostly be wrestlers.
The only substitute for victory is overkill.
by Underhand Left on Aug 19, 2011 10:15 AM EDT reply actions
Doping in wrestling goes back decades...
so unfortunately top wrestlers have doped in the past.
I figure most are using something. And considering the punishment is pretty tame, most will continue to use.
Of course I have no actual proof of this, it’s just my personal opinion. I watch this sport for the sport of it, not because I consider these guys heroes. As Brent said, they aren’t heroes. And really, if you are putting these guys up on a podium, you’re only setting yourself up for disappointment. I don’t consider anything made by a chemist is “natural” so in a way, with all these supplements, everyone is using something to gain even the slightest advantage. It’s like having the best trainers, the best equipment – now it’s about the best drugs. I figure it’s like prostitution. You know it goes on. It’s been happening for a long, long time, and it will probably continue to happen. So at some point, all you can do is legalize it, monitor it, tax it.
exactly
What’s the difference between "muscle tech Anator p-70 muscle gene suppliants and creatine " and Roids ?
One people take to get bigger muscles and one people take and actually get bigger muscles. The only difference is effectiveness. It’s the same plan. Take a substance that you don’t actually need into your body so you can workout harder, and get bigger,stronger,faster.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 10:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
lol
Just thought about. The drug dealers are the most honest people in the bodybuilding and athletic world . Lmao who would of though.
Athletes lie about use of juice.
Agents , leagues and promoters lie about everything.
And suppliant companies lie about effectiveness.
You want to talk to a straight shooter call your local juice dealer. Lol who would have thought.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 10:45 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
stupid auto correct.
Supplements.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 10:49 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Obviously there's abuse in all sports BUT the difference is the leauges protect themselves
with these policies and programs… basically making it so they are in compliance so if the athelete fucks up it’s on him not the organization or league. Zuffa needs to protect themselves and make the atheletes aware that they will have to abide by the policys & regulations.
Start blood testing. I guarantee they start doing olympic style blood testing randomly they will catch a lot of people. Until then, I just assume they are all cheating because urine testing is a joke, and it’s been outdated for almost 30 years.
It's just a world, it's just a life.
This is the truth
Olympic-style, no-notice, anytime, anywhere testing is the only way to have a good chance of catching people and thus the only system that truly acts as a deterrent to those who know what they are doing. I (and many others) could show them an uber-basic steroid + hGH program that is safe (relatively speaking) and undetectable with at least 3-4 days notice using existing, off the (pharmacy) shelf drugs.
Then there is the design drugs, steroids and hGH analogs and variations, insulin, IGF-1 and IGF-2 and all sorts of other stuff, real and rumored, not to mention others far more knowledgeable and adept than I am regarding the bleeding edge stuff…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Aug 19, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
when a guy can kick your head off, someone can get hurt
If PEDs did, in fact, give someone the ability to kick someone’s head off, I demand that we pump CroCop full of HGH and Testosterone and send him to Texas to replace lethal injection.
Best execution method ever.
by Damnatio Memoriae on Aug 19, 2011 10:24 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
lol
I hate the kick your head off theory. It’s so silly.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 10:37 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
CroCrop of old? or present?
present is left kick, early bird special, right kick, retirement home.
by Rucker on Aug 19, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is a perfect retirement plan for him
The other guy can’t fight back. They just stand him on the free throw line and see if CroCop can sink a basket with his head. He get’s paid double if he swishes it.
Look what TRT did for Chael, Randy and Hendo. And that was just getting there testosterone back up into the “normal” range. I’m talking about pumping CroCop full of outrageous levels of horse steroids.
by Damnatio Memoriae on Aug 19, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
lol
is that him delivering or receiving?
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Aug 19, 2011 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I might pay more attention to Serra on this
If he weren’t on a losing streak that could jade his opinion.
Bloody Elbow Grappling Editor.
Follow me on Twitter @KJGould
Like me on Facebook
Dude's 37..
I fully agree with him. juiceheads are talentless fucks who are only in the upper echelons because of hormones ie:) Marquardt
well once they get put on blast
then they won’t be my favourite fighters then. simple
wow so i just need roids and i can hit like Big Mac and Bonds!!!!
Awesome! I will have a chin like leben if I inject? Will I have a heel hook like a young Ken Shamrock with some test ? Henderson is on test, so if I take it I can KO Fedor !!!! This is awesome!!!! Good thing you are so knowledgeable on this subject. I thought they worked hard being the best they could be. Shows you what I know.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 10:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
ya I've sprinted against juiceheads
I know steroids let you cut corners. I wouldn’t call it ‘working hard’
what do you call hours in the gym and dojo?
Did/ do you take creatine?
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 11:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Whatever makes you feel better about yourself I guess.
by sexysassytravismmafan on Aug 19, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
"Sprinted"
Try a real sport, homie.
Ex-sinner, Grammy award winner
Ballin' repeatedly, highlights on Sportscenter
by underrated ground game on Aug 19, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
talks about "talent"
And sprinting was his sport. Isn’t that more of a you got speed or you don’t type thing? It’s all muscles and quickness, no? Not being mean, I just don’t know about high level running.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 11:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
outside of fighting my knowledge takes a serious dive.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 11:18 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
is there a method to sprinting or is it mostly just go for blast off and hope for the best?
I know like 99.9999999999999?999% of the Olympic guys are on stimulants and juice according to old coaches and retired runners and test results.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 11:27 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Is there a method to fighting or is it mostly just swing and hope for the best?
Of course there’s technique. Your posture and stride would strongly impact your results in a sport where .01 seconds is the difference between a gold medal and nothing.
"an excellent example of why most MMA "journalism" is a joke. Pseudonyms like "toxic" and shitty writing like that dopey article"--- Joe Rogan.
i feel kinda silly now.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 12:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Why don’t you drop being uppity about it a show some knowledge. Just saying “you must not know nothing” does not educate anyone.
Case in point i got into a discussion about TRT with a fellow member here (american ronin sp? i think) and he owned me, but he did so while teaching me a fuck ton about the topic and even sent me what he thought the TRT regulations should be (great guidelines as well).
I’d rather just climb this fridge
I know steroids let you cut corners. I wouldn’t call it ‘working hard’
There is some truth to this, especially at the weekend warrior and other amateur levels, but at the highest pro levels it is super hard (and smart) work, great talent and great nutrition/supplementation (in all of its forms) knowledge and use that allows one to reach the top…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Aug 19, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions
I fully agree with him. juiceheads are talentless fucks who are only in the upper echelons because of hormones ie:) Marquardt
Well, at least they might be a weight class above where they otherwise would have been…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Aug 19, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
No Roider
I don’t know about this one… I’m sure there are a lot of guys using to varying degrees but I think it may not be as prolific as some suggest. I just think some guys don’t work as hard as others and want to blame their lack of success or physique on other guys using PED’s.
I was first asked if I used when I was 15 years old. 15! I didn’t even know what the hell the guy was talking about at the time. I grew up on manual labor; the only jobs available were fishing, farming, and forestry so you did all that shit just to stay paid and you started young.
You know you look pretty ripped when you bail hay for 14 hours in the stifling heat. You will look pretty jacked if you block, split, carry and stack 10 cord of wood in a day and a half. You’ll get in pretty good shape if you go out and fish lobster at 4:30 am and get back to the dock at 6:30 pm. Later in life I worked as a roughneck on a double drilling rig built in the 50’s. You’ll get in good shape slugging heavy steel for 12 hours a day, every day for up to 5 weeks at a time. When you need to get paid, there is no ‘burn out’ or ‘recovery time’. You work until your body gets used to it. “Suck it up, buttercup” is a commonly used phrase in my parts.
Aside from all that I competed in every sport available at my shitty school; I took Judo, boxing and a little tai-kwon-do. There was no movie theater, no McDonalds, none of that shit. Healthy food because you had to, not because it was a fad. Hell we had dial-up internet until recently. People just can’t fucking comprehend that shit nowadays. Our grandparents were wiry, tough as nails sons of bitches and most lazy cunts today would be jealous of their physiques.
Anyway, not everyone ‘uses’. Some people are just genetically gifted and work harder than fuck. I’m sure there will be a litany of keyboard warriors who never swung a hammer that will lambaste my opinion, but whatever. I’ve gotten it all my life; lazy fatties are everywhere.
Use to work on a wharf, i feel you. Fucking slave labor, but it does make you naturally strong and able to deal with a lot more strain on your body. I am in collage now with a blown out knee to i’m not in the greatest of shape at this point and time, but i know what you’re talking about.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
Fo sheez
It’s just so uncommon to work a really hard manual labor job these days, and most people grew up in the city; so they have no frame of reference. One of my cousins came to visit from and he was so excited to ‘help out’ on the wharf. He had some fucking romantic idea that he would just be cruising on a boat and chilling out… poor fucker had to go to sleep at noon and couldn’t walk the next day. Ahh… city folk
I had a guy watch us throw around 80 to 120lb bags of nets. He was a family member of one of my co workers. He thought that it would be an easy way to make some extra money on his visit. He was bigger than most of us and when he started working, he lasted about a half hour and was done.
Dude was strong as fuck, but none of it was functional strength.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
by Riley_96 on Aug 19, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Funny how that works
To me when I spend time between really intense labor jobs, I find it takes a couple of weeks of those grinding 12+ hour days before my body ‘settles into it’. Then I feel hard as fuck. Like Rocky 4 in the fucking mountains type of shit. You just can’t get that kind of condition many other places, even though I spend time in the gym in between. The bulky guys don’t seem to have the stamina for the most part, but the few big guys I know that do are just scary as fuck.
Because if you're doing REAL work,
you can’t maintain that kind of size. You just burn too many calories, as opposed to just lifting, lifting, lifting and never improving your cardiovascular fitness. .
For most people
Then there are the guys that just take in like 14000-20000 calories a day and can maintain their size and get that cardio too.
It’s kind of a mix between endurance and raw athleticism; and the same reason I don’t know why more MMA guys don’t do the 400M sprint. I see them doing 100M dash all the time, but for MMA I think you need to maintain that explosive strength for longer than ~10 seconds. If you’ve got good upper body strength and you can do the 400M around 50-55 seconds then you’re a beast. My best ever recorded time was 53.02 seconds and I was a fucking manbeast during those years. I think it will become more common in training as time goes on.
It's all just hearsay and conjecture.
People can believe whatever they want about PED use in sports, and they do, passionately and vehemently, with little evidence and a lot of “he said, she said” quotes.
by Machiel Van on Aug 19, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah look at thr difference in physique in the 1940s and now.
I have worked as a Linesman since I was 16. Do I can relate to what you are saying. But Roids are everywhere.
I actually have noticed lb for lb steroid users aren’t any stronger than non users. That’s why in a weight class sport I don’t think they are a big deal.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 12:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Look at the difference in gyms, gym memberships and the standard of beauty perpetuated by modern media outlets
just sayin’.
by Machiel Van on Aug 19, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
this is true. look at our heros. for kids born in the early 80's
Sly Stalone- convicted for Roids in Australia.
Arnold- admits use and pissed hot.
Hulk Rogan- admitted use
Countless Olympic athletes- sprinters the most common.
The bash brothers.- canseco and macguire
Ken shamrock
Kimo
Royce
The list goes on.
These are just the dudes that got caught. The list is staggering.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 12:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So all those powerlifters and olympic lifters that juice are just idiots? And the fact that tested powerlifting federations records lag far behind those of untested?
by Pantherhare on Aug 19, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
All I'm saying is that there are more muscled men in the US in general,
and it’s probably more due to the prevalence of gym memberships and the way media pushes the idea that men are “supposed to” have toned muscles to be attractive than it is to steroids. What’s funny to me is if you’re going to take something that actually enhances your PERFORMANCE as an athlete, you don’t want something that gives you large, oxygen sucking MUSCLES. Bigger muscles do not equal better performance, athletes know that, and that’s why you end up with people like Chris Leben and Royce Gracie getting popped for PED use (Leben is not very muscled IMO). I think that the MLB effect is all that makes people think that big muscles/impressive physiques = PED use.
you've clearly never seen eastern europe
The artful muppet formerly known as KrmtDfrog.
Please read my sardonic wit and over-blown sense of self over at headkicklegend.com
by Cory Braiterman on Aug 19, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
leben was jacked in the fight he pissed hot for.
Royce I believe was taking them to heal. Dudes body is battered and broken.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 1:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Like Vitor.
I’ll have to disagree about Leben though, he has never looked “jacked” IMO. Big core but skinny little arms. “Jacked” to me is Rashad UFC 133, Houston Alexander, Melvin Guillard, etc.
jacked for leben, its a relative term.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 1:28 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Leben had ads for that Bisping fight.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
I was responding to gentle way's assertion that steroids don't make you stronger, pound for pound
But you’re wrong too. Lots of people, especially pro athletes, are juicing. It’s not just a perception thing. Roid use will have different visual results depending on what you do. Train a certain way (lift weights and not much else) and consume enough calories while juicing, and your muscles will get bigger. Train another way (hours of sparring, rolling, and cardio in addition to weights) and hold your calories down and your muscles won’t get much bigger, but you’ll be better able to hold on to what muscle you do have.
yea , mine was a assumtion.
It could be based anomalies and not the norm at all. The power lifting records suggest I am very wrong.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 2:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
excuse the spelling
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 2:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
PED vs. Steroids
Thanks for using the term PED instead of steroids.
Personally, I have no idea how many fighters currently use steroids. I’d imagine HGH use is much higher. In any case, regulating PED is not as simple and clear cut as BJ accusing Georges of “roiding.”
All of this SCREAMS GSP
GSP’s fans are all up in arms, being overly defensive…its genetics right? Its his great diet….The Canadian pharmacy system is totally irrelevant. GSP has too much honor to take shortcuts to win…..LOLOLOL I still got that bridge in Brooklyn for sale
I'M MADDER N HALE!!
Boohooo
I cant win so everyone must be cheating!
The problem once again is that..
statements such as this send fans and the like on witch hunts for guys who they think are using based on performance and success (GSP and A SIlva come to mind here). When the fact of the matter is that maybe its the guys trying to come up. roids do not lead to success. Case and point Jason Reinhardt, the guy openly laughs at the commission and admits to use, yet he gets smashed every time he steps in the cage.
Guys like GSP, A Silva, and Also are easy targets because they look super human in talent and no one can touch them. Of course the guys who lost to them are going to throw them under the bus when they get a chance.
Note: i know that no one has said anything about A SIlva, there was only that silly screen shot of a box at his home that had people claiming it was a PED. Aldo thus far has been able to dodge such talk, but let him run over a few more guys and make them look bad and it will come his way as well.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
by Riley_96 on Aug 19, 2011 11:48 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I hear ya
Yeah, I find it funny that the light guys don’t get any heat at all, but the larger guys will. To me, GSP and Anderson have good physiques, but certainly don’t have a typical body builders’ physique. They just look like athletic guys to me. I think that people are just so used to being fat and seeing fat that the bar gets set pretty low. Then they see a GSP looking guy and scream ROIDER!!!
I think it’s hilarious that people who’s athletic background is nothing more than 1/2 of a tai-bo class have such a scathing opinion when they have absolutely no knowledge about what it takes to get in shape. I also \ think if everyone ate healthy and worked out to even moderate levels you’d see a lot less of this finger pointing.
by macintosh on Aug 19, 2011 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
With all due respect, I think it’s a mistake to just judge whether a guy is taking PEDs based on physique. And also a mistake to say it does nothing for a guy’s sports performance.
I think baseball showed us the error in thinking that way.
by Darkknight95 on Aug 19, 2011 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed. Its been shown over and over again
Timmah wasn’t jacked when he was using. Barnett’s never been a shredded guy. Royce looked exactly the same. Judging by physique is nonsense.
"What do you know about my vision? My vision will turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself: Are you really ready to see that vision?"
-Huey Freeman
by dgonz on Aug 19, 2011 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agreed
Outward appearance is a poor meter to judge by. Some guys won’t look too buff no matter how much shit they jazz themselves up on. Some guys don’t need anything to look buff but don’t have great natural strength or stamina. I’ve seen it go both ways.
by macintosh on Aug 19, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec's all of these posts.
Let’s lay the “look test” to rest.
I'm so fucking happy that Matt Serra doesn't use roids
if he used, that would break my heart.
Respect Matt Serra!
Matt "The Terror" Serra!!!!
Does anyone know if steroids can Mamet you have man boobs or moobs?
I jst heard that some steroids might do that.
by itsnotthatserious on Aug 19, 2011 11:55 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Ok. So do u think it's highly possible that some athletes use
Take it incorrectly by accident then in order to hide the physical mistake. Have surgery to reduce the chest/breast size so it would look normal???
by itsnotthatserious on Aug 19, 2011 12:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
unless you are a heavy weight you wouldnt wanna take body builder amounts.
Gynomastia shouldn’t be a problem st the levels a.fighter would want to take.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 12:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Semi-related...but I started reading The Fighter's Mind yesterday and Dan Gable had an interesting POV
If I was going to wrestle in the finals of the Olympics against a Russian, which I did, and if I knew he had been trained specifically to beat me, which he had – but then if I knew the guy was on steroids, that would HELP me. Whereas some might think ‘oh he’s cheating’ or he’s got an unfair advantage, for me you didn’t pay the price. You’re not as committed as I am. It’ll tear him apart. He may be strong, but all I have to do during that nine minutes of wrestling is loosen one single wire in his brain, make him do something that isn’t perfect, and he’ll fall apart.
"What do you know about my vision? My vision will turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself: Are you really ready to see that vision?"
-Huey Freeman
by dgonz on Aug 19, 2011 11:58 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I am a GSP fan, and I will give him the benefit of a doubt, BUT
Legit question here. If you want to isolate just ONE aspect of MMA that requires the most burst of strength/ energy/ cardio (something PEDs would help with), wouldn’t it be wrestling?
I didn’t follow GSP’s career too closely before he fought Matt Hughes the 2nd time and won the title. But wasn’t he more of a striking oriented fighter with good (but not amazing) wrestling?
Now he’s probably the best wrestler in the sport, despite having never competed in it at any level. Now when I look at the other premier wrestlers in the sport- Chael Sonnen, Dan Henderson, Phil Davis, Kos, etc they all competed at a very high level in college or even higher. They’ve basically been wrestling since kids. And yet GSP’s wrestling is now at just a high if not higher level then all of them.
So I just got to wonder. The sheer improvement and level of GSP’s wrestling. Is that really something that can be attributed just to his work ethic and freak athletic ability?
Again, not making accusations, I hope to God he’s clean. But I thought I’d just throw this question out there cause I myself want to know what people think.
I think thats when it starts to differ
between wrestling for MMA and wrestling. GSP has perfected wrestling for MMA but a guy like Askren would have a good chance of tooling him in a normal wrestling match.
"What do you know about my vision? My vision will turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself: Are you really ready to see that vision?"
-Huey Freeman
Good point, but
again, what exactly about GSP makes him so dominant even in his MMA wrestling compared to his peers with years and years of wrestling under their belts? Is it just his work ethic and mental strength?
I mean he has absolutely destroyed decorated wrestlers like Kos, Fitch, Hughes, etc. Why weren’t these guys, with stronger wrestling backgrounds than GSP, able to bring their own MMA wrestling up to a similar level?
Take a guy like Kos. GSP is an athletic freak but I don’t think he’s that much more athletic than Kos. Kos obviously has the better wrestling pedigree. And yet GSP absolutely destroyed him in wrestling.
by Darkknight95 on Aug 19, 2011 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Naturally gifted and he mixes wrestling with striking almost perfectly.
The North remembers...
Would you like Freys with that?
Yep
Check out his jab to shoot transitions, they are lightning fast. Really, get to the gym homey. When someone blasts you with a stiff jab in the nose or the eye, you will not likely see that take down. Couple that with the fact that he’s got good chain take downs and strength, so if he doesn’t get you with the first he’ll get you with the next
It's the way he mixes it with his striking
In a pure wrestling match things might look different. But Kos is either trying to take you down, or throwing an overhand right. With GSP you never really know what he’s going to throw at you, and that’s what compliments his wrestling to make it so effective.
"What do you know about my vision? My vision will turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself: Are you really ready to see that vision?"
-Huey Freeman
Yea I agree
I have always argued GSP’s greatest talent is not his wrestling or striking, but his distance control.
He’s without doubt the best in MMA in maintaining a range that allows him to either strike OR takedown without being put in danger himself.
I just thought I’d throw his wrestling improvement out there for sake of discussion. Again, I doubt he’s using PEDs for no other reason than he seems like a guy that genuinely cares about his health quality of life outside the Octagon.
by Darkknight95 on Aug 19, 2011 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions
You hit the nail on the head. Those other guys were wrestlers first and use to lean on that, it was their scape goat when they were in trouble. If you watch Hughes, Kos, and Fitch their striking never really caught up with their grappling. Kos has power, but leaves his feet and shows some bad habits when he throws. Hughes leaves himself open for strikes a lot and gets caught when he does not commit on punches. Fitch is a grinder and knows what he is good at and never really strayed.
GSP simply allowed his wrestling to catch up with his striking while other guys didn’t.
GSP’s big turning point was when he got knocked out by Serra. I mean sure he showed his ability when he fought Penn, but never really started to use the grappling until he got knocked out. GSP just worked on adding strikes to takedowns which is really the key to MMA. If you show a fighter that you can take him down when ever you want it throws the fighter off his game. The guy starts to doubt his strikes because he does not want to get taken down, he starts to avoid clinches because he does not want to get taken down, and he starts to hesitate on pulling the trigger due to the TD.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
i disagree on one point
GSP showed off his grappling far before Penn or Sera 1. Submitted Trigg, GNP’d Parysian and Miller. He has been very grappling centric from the start IMO.
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
by sitnam90 on Aug 19, 2011 6:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Actually he didn't really outwrestle Koscheck that much.
In the first match Kos didn’t train his wrestling and was caught off guard by the fact that GSP wanted to wrestle him. Kind of like Fitch/Penn.
By the time the second match came around, Kos was more than ready for GSP in the wrestling game. I think that he might have taken him down once or twice early, but Kos stood back up almost immediately. He had obviously trained his ass off on his takedown defense and getting back to his feet.
He didn’t think that GSP wanted to strike with him and that ended up being his downfall. It’s funny because everyone thinks that the key to beating GSP is through striking, but in all actuality it’s probably the guy who can take him down that will beat him.
I've said it before
and I will again…
The game isn’t using or not, it is whether or not you get caught and if you do, how you spin it or make excuses to get by with it.
It sucks, but it is what it is.
PEDs are often used to heal from injuries, no?
It seems like quite a bit of guys in other sports that get busted for it were trying to heal quicker from injuries.
So it seems like that aspect might be a concern for a sport like MMA. You don’t have guaranteed contracts like NBA, MLB. And even in the NFL, if you get injured they don’t generally just cut you immediately.
But in MMA you might not be able to fight and get paid until you heal. So it seems like guys may be tempted to just take PEDs so that they can heal quicker.
It seems like quite a bit of guys in other sports that get busted for it were trying to heal quicker from injuries.
See my post right above. No doubt there are guys who ise to recover quicker from injury. That doesn’t necessarily make it legal or not cheating and this is probably the most common excuse used to spin a positive test.
Agreed.
I wasn’t using the injury thing to excuse usage.
I was just thinking that aspect might make it more likely that guys in MMA are using. I mean these dudes come out with an injury basically after every single fight.
by Darkknight95 on Aug 19, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
absolutely
Until the sport reaches a pay level much higher, which i don’t know if it ever will, mid and low level guys will need to fight repeatedly to succeed. Using a PED to allow for this should not surprise any of us.
Of course, we would all piss and moan if a guy was only fighting once or twice per year and the structure of MMA isn’t really set up for that.
exactly.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 1:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I don't buy that entirely
I used to gym with a guy who injected regularly and it eventually fucked his organs, mostly the kidney and liver. If you overburden those organs that get rid of toxins naturally you fuck yourself in the mid to long term. In my experience, heating and cooling; combined with good clean protein is the way to go. Silica supplements for ligament repair, and natural egg membrane and fish oils for joint care.
Stretching is important of course.
What I do sometimes is take a natural digestive enzyme to get rid of fucked up muscle tissue as well as deep tissue massage, clay baths and all that. I think if MMA guys are using it for recovery they are probably doing more harm than good.
Good question
I don’t know what the fuck this guy was on to be honest. I walked into the bathroom a few times and caught him shooting something. He always did super high weight and low reps, and was gigantic. He had a shitty work ethic in the gym and for a grown ass man had some serious bacne. He’s really skinny and sickly looking these days, so maybe I’ll ask him now that he’s not so intimidating looking ;)
Haha I’d love to find out what he says. :o
Steroids can and will overwork your organs when used incorrectly. I wouldn’t be surprised if your gym needler bought something like test-prop from a local basement chemist cooking it up in his laundry sink and thought he could shoot it for 2 years straight without consequences. There are LOTS of people like that. They become addicted to the progress they make on it and think they can get away without properly cycling.
Proper cycling, PCT and liver support shouldn’t break anything.
I can see why
You’d get addicted, especially seeing quick progress; even if your work ethic isn’t great. And yeah, give that there was no more than 1200 people in my home town his source was probably shitty.
It’s a fine line about this performance enhancing shit though. When I grew up I drank a lot of raw milk and most of the burly fuckers around me did too. I just recently found out that raw milk is full of lysine, an important amino acid for muscle building and repair (supposedly one of the best components for doing so). I also eat stinging nettle in salads a lot and found out that it helps your body use anabolic testosterone that you naturally create.
If I was a fighter, does it mean that I have an unfair advantage over a guy that eats nothing but greasy pizza all the time? Raw milk is hard to come by in most places… so the question gets more confusing all the time.
you eat stinging nettle ?
The stinging part? I have never heard of this.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 12:55 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yep
The leaves and the stem, and the root. I usually blanch it for a bit (throw it in on a rolling boil for a minute or 2) then chop it and jazz it up with some sea salt or Himalayan salt and some first cold pressed virgin olive oil. Never tastes great but throw it in with some peppers, avacado, whatever you like in salads. I just found out recently about the testosterone thing, I just thought it was a good source of iron and minerals.
Supposedly
The root and root extract is also supposed to help with healthy hair. I find if I eat it on the regular my hair is a little thicker and darker, I don’t think there’s many extensive studies on it.
if this is a joke to get me to sting my mouth i am gonna ......
I am gonna ….. Write you a strongly worded email?
I will give it a try. The branching takes most of the sting out right?
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 1:12 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Yeah
There’s not much sting if any left after it gets the quick boil. I don’t find it’s that bad even raw (but you’re not going to eat a shitload of it anyway). As far as your experience with it…. you can send me a strongly worded email but it may make you less of a man ;)
lol
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 1:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Matt Serra..
could have used some PEDs after having his ribs kneed in by GSP. I broke ribs once (fighting) 9 mo. later it still hurt when i took a deep breath. Enuff with the PEDs, they’re a reality and here to stay. Right now i’m jazzed the UFC is on FOX!
It's interesting how Joe Rogan, a non-athlete,
uses the same PED as Nick Diaz…
Joe Rogan
said on the Mark Maron podcast he used TRT, and HGH, denied steroids after Maron said his head looked like it had “grown”
Wait, he admitted to using TRT but then said he didn’t use steroids? What was he using for TRT then?
by Pantherhare on Aug 19, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Testosterone is not a steroid
but it can be a PED if abused.
by Machiel Van on Aug 19, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
testosterone is the strongest steroid used as a ped.
You have been getting your info from Sonnen I see.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 1:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I didn't think it was
but now I see that it is indeed defined as such. Thanks for the info. Ol’ Uncle Chael must be getting to me indeed.
lol
That fuckin guy.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 1:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And if they REALLY..
want to clean up the UFC, adopt the same testing as MLB . Have you noticed nobody’s hitting 60 homers? Or throwing 95mph at 40 yrs old?
What exactly did they do to clean it up?
It’s obviously been cleaned up as you can see by the HR numbers.
But have they adopted more stringent testing, or harsher penalties? Or a combo of both.
My opinion has always been that you need to emphasis the latter. I think users will always find a way to remain a step ahead of testing. But if you implement serious harsh penalties, that will get guys to stop.
But wondering what they did in MLB…
by Darkknight95 on Aug 19, 2011 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Im not sure what their testing is...
but it’s definately made a difference, , i do know they get a 50 game suspension for the first dirty test
Yea I should do some research on that
But I’d assume it was a combo of both. Stricter testing AND harsher penalties.
by Darkknight95 on Aug 19, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Completed unrelated question but...
Has anyone else noticed that your average Joe Schmo on the streets seems to have gotten a lot more jacked over the last 10-20 years?
You see guys looking like Ronnie from Jersey Shore all over the gym and walking around the streets.
Seems like 10-20 years ago guys there were in shape had more of a soccer player physique- lean, cut.
I wonder what % of your average gym rat is doing PEDs. Or maybe it’s just creatine
It's milk.
lol, I actually had a conversation the other night with a friend that works as an investigator for the FDA. He was talking about how kids physiques are changing and how 12 year old girls are walking around with big boobs because of the hormones they pit in milk and other foods. Watch “Food Inc.”, very interesting.
LOL, are you being serious?
I can’t tell. I mean I do buy that cause I am freakishly tall for my family and I’m the only one that really liked and drank milk as a kid. I used to chug a gallon a day sometimes as a kid.
In fact, I have noticed that it seems like if I drink a lot of milk I do get bigger when I lift. It’s like my own steroid.
by Darkknight95 on Aug 19, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
yea periods are starting earlier because of it.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on Aug 19, 2011 12:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I mean maybe
But I’m pretty sure Ronny from Jersey Shore isn’t just chugging milk.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
by Neil Manich on Aug 19, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
You watch Jersey Shore?!
ಠ_ಠ
"Who are you and how the hell did you get in here?"
"I'm a locksmith... and i'm a locksmith."
I watched the first season.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
by Neil Manich on Aug 19, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
TOTAL SHOCKER!! AND THEY HAD THEIR FIRST FIGHT AND BREAK-UP AGAIN LIKE A DAY AFTER! WHO SAW THAT COMING??
by Horselover Fat on Aug 19, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
It's probably linked to the fact
That a shitload of High School kids are all about supplements and steroids these days.
I graduated in 98 and went to the greatest High School football school in history. (Our name rhymed with Me Duh Pal). Our strength & conditioning trainer was a fucking meathead in every sense of the word and probably juiced daily. He introduced this new thing called “creatine” to us as freshmen in 94/95. We all took it.
My friends at the local public school skipped that and went straight to D-Bol from Mexico. I figure if a bunch of my friends in the mid-90s were juicing (and we knew plenty of friends from surrounding bay area schools who did so as well)…today even more are probably doing so.
BOOSH
That's the thing about PEDs...
whenever you see someone who looks too"cut", or big, at the gym, or in the cage, first thing i think, is that guy juiced? This guy for the Blue Jays last year out of nowhere hits 50, right away you think Juice, this is what the whole PEDs culture has done.
Honestly, I think the way Arnold looked in T2 is the peak of natural human ability
I mean assuming he was off the roids by then. But even if he wasn’t, I think that’s the best a guy not using can do/ look.
Obviously Arnold in bodybuilding days= roids.
by Darkknight95 on Aug 19, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
One last thing...
Watching Rashad against Tito, he was an absolute monster, i’ve watched him his whole career, and NEVER have i seen him look, ( huge) or fight like that.I never was a big fan of his style, but he was badass that night. Was it because he left Jackson’s and has a new more effective camp?Or because……….
He had a year off to train without prepping for a fight. That’s a year of not cutting weight, not trying to peak and so on. PEDs let you recover faster, so you can train more and get stronger faster. If you have a year to get big, you don’t have to use chemicals.
"Very broken in his right hand is Martin Kampmann"
"This is the internet: you either have soul-stopping power or you’re a pillow-fisted pansy. There is no middle ground." - woomikee
by outlander78 on Aug 19, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Looks like a He-Man figure, can kick your head off?
Sounds like somebody’s been watching old Cro Cop fights.
Hope I don't get crushed for this question!
Do any of you use creatine and or glutamine? If yes, do you think they work? I’ve been trying to get bigger for a couple of years and it’s very difficult. I workout 4 days a week, eat well and drink my protein shakes etc..
I tried creatine a couple of times – both times it worked pretty well. I was able to lift more and my muscles definitely looked bigger but it caused some gastrointestinal discomfort so I stopped using it. After stopping you lose pretty much all of those “gains” though so its one of those things you have to continue using if you want the benefit to continue.
"You should work for 15 minutes to knock your opponent out, submit him, or improve your position to give yourself the best chance of doing either." - Dan Hardy
With Creatine
you have to drink gallons of water, you lose the muscle as soon as you stop….EAT as much protein as you can stand,eat a lot period, drink protein quality shakes immediately after your workouts….
If you’re buying a decent protein, like ON or something, then it already contains enough glutamine and you don’t need to supplement with anymore.
Creatine ‘works’ but it’s not worth the monthly investment IMO. I used it for a short short time, maybe 6 weeks or so. I found that my muscles felt rock hard even on off days and probably a minimal increase in strength. Not enough benefits to bother with the daily ingestion of the substance plus all the water they recommend you drink with it.
Like many others, I tried tons of supplements my first year of weight training. Four years later I basically only drink ON whey a couple hours before the gym, and ON casein before bed.
Appreciate it.
Yeah, I stopped buying the glutamine as the GNC protein 60 has a bunch of glutamine. Just started the creatine but haven’t noticed much of a difference. A friend also mentioned N.O. But it seems like a lot of “marketing”. Thanks again for the input.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bloody Elbow
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
