Alistair Overeem Says He Is Not Cut From Strikeforce, Wants an Immediate UFC Title Shot
by Fraser Coffeen on Aug 16, 2011 9:24 AM EDT
in MMA News
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The latest chapter in the Zuffa vs. Golden Glory discussion sounds like good news for fans of The Reem. According to both Overeem himself and Golden Glory head Bas Boon, Alistair Overeem has not in fact been cut from Strikeforce or stripped of the Heavyweight title.
Overeem sat down with MMA Bay to discuss this whole situation, saying that he is in a negotiation period with the UFC. He also added that he's ready to come to the UFC, and he wants an immediate shot at the Heavyweight title:
I am in an exclusive negotiation period [with the UFC]. If we can find common ground, we can work together, and if we can't, then we're going to depart. I want to fight in the UFC. They have the best guys, but it has to be at the right terms. So, we're just going to have to wait and see.
...
The dream for me is to directly fight for the UFC title. I already hold the other three titles--the Strikeforce, Dream and K-1 titles. Which other title is there? This fight would make me champion of all belts. That would interest me.
Here's Josh Gross at ESPN.com explaining the current situation with Overeem:
Despite exercising its right to terminate the final fight on Alistair Overeem's contract, Forza LLC, which operates Strikeforce and is a subsidiary of UFC's parent company, Zuffa LLC, has not released the Strikeforce heavyweight champion.
Bas Boon, who represents Overeem through Dutch management firm Golden Glory, clarified to ESPN.com that the 31-year-old fighter is currently "in a negotiation period with Zuffa." Boon declined to discuss details, though sources familiar with the arrangement between Overeem and Strikeforce explained the fighter is bound to exclusive and separate 120-day negotiation and matching periods with the Las Vegas-based promoter.
Zuffa, through a representative, declined to comment on Overeem's contractual status.
Gross goes on to explain that the Silva fight would have been the last on Overeem's current contract, and, despite Overeem being tied to a champion's clause, negotiations to extend that contract failed. This means that Alistair is now in this negotiation period, which could either mean his return to Zuffa, or simply be a formality before his official release.
Despite the positive talk from Overeem, the (former?) champion does say he is getting mixed messages from Zuffa, and complains that they are still not being entirely honest about their motivations behind cutting Valentijn Overeem, Jon Olav Einemo, and Marloes Coenen. Alistair states that all four of the fighters had in fact been paid directly by Zuffa for recent fights, so is unsure why this would suddenly become such an issue.
Finally, he announces that he has been pulled from the October United Glory card, and will not be fighting there. Overeem says it is because he won't be fully recovered from his injuries, but you have to wonder if his removal is in some part a show of good faith to Zuffa.
UPDATE:
Dana White dropped by the UG to comment:
We are not even close to a deal with allistar but we are working on it.
Complete video of the MMA Bay interview with Overeem in the full entry.
Full video:
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Dude holds 3 belts….doesnt sound like a bad idea at all. Dana could build this up a million ways and ao is a easy person to market.
Twitter: Killuminati_BE
by Killuminati on Aug 16, 2011 9:32 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions 6 recs
Dream Belt means nothing, the GP was SF’s way to legitimize that belt, and K-1 isn’t MMA.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
by Riley_96 on Aug 16, 2011 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Your right. Being a world class striker means nothing in mma wtf was i thinking……..what hw belt is legitmate then …the ufc ?…..last i checked their roster isnt any better then strikeforce.
Twitter: Killuminati_BE
by Killuminati on Aug 16, 2011 9:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Means nothing when fighting for an MMA title. Is a nice title to have and looks good on paper, but to give a guy an MMA title shot based on kick boxing title is silly. As i stated below SF has the talent in the division to make a case for the belt, but it has never been put on the line against half of them. Rogers was the only guy to fight for the Strikeforce title and he was coming off a loss.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
He didn’t say anything about it meaning nothing. He said the Dream belt meant nothing. Which is true. And SF was legitimizing their belt with the GP which is also true and K-1 is not MMA, another true statement…
by Spider_Vemon on Aug 16, 2011 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Hey now
That Dream belt means something. It means he beat Todd Duffee. I propose a Russow match, then title shot. It’s only logical.
"All noble things are as difficult as they are rare."
- Baruch Spinoza
Is Mike Russow the real Dream champ since Alistair is only the Interim Champ?
by Spider_Vemon on Aug 16, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
I think so. If Overeem really wants that belt he has to come to the UFC to get it.
Anyone who beats Duffee gets a Dream belt, and they have to defeat the person who beat Duffee before them to gain the power of the other Dream belts. It’s like the Highlander.
"All noble things are as difficult as they are rare."
- Baruch Spinoza
by Avap on Aug 16, 2011 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Sounds more like The One to me. Which is a great movie by the way.
I AM YU LAW! I AM NOBODYS BITCH!
by Spider_Vemon on Aug 16, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Because if I win a boxing title, then I should get a title shot in the UFC? Kickboxing and mma are different sports.
by discoandherpes on Aug 16, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it doesn't matter that those titles are irrelevant to MMA.
Zuffa can market those three belts for the casual PPV buyer as some kind of huge superfight.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
How are those belts big marketing ploys when the casual fans don't know what they are?
Most casual fans have never even watched K-1, they’ve never heard of DREAM, and they only saw Overeem fight Werdum in Strikeforce if they knew a hardcore fan.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That's exactly the great part!
You can just let Joe Rogan in the Countdown Shows and Teasers/Trailers tell how Overeem collected 3 HW champion belts and is now set on the most important belt, the UFC belt.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
No one will care about belts they never heard of.
It would be like marketing someone as the BAMMA champ, no one cares. Casuals look at all that stuff as minor league belts.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Well we have to agree to disagree then.
The casuals at least know Strikeforce and might have heard about K1. If you let Joe Rogan tell them how important the K1 belt is and blah blah blah Overeem’s striking etc. then it makes for one hell of a countdown show.
But hey, that’s at least my opinion.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
Joe could tell the casuals AO beat Zeus for the K1 title and it still wouldn’t matter to them. The casuals know SF as the place that guys who can’t make it to the UFC go,
I’d rather just climb this fridge
Really? I'm not sure about that.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
It's pretty accurate.
You are thinking from a rational standpoint, not JUST BLEED standpoint. You think BE has some UFC homers, complete casual fans know nothing outside of the UFC.
I have a friend who considers himself a hardcore MMA fan and won’t watch anything not UFC, and then he only watches certain cards with title fights he knows both fighters in. These are the people they have to market unfortunately
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe if AO defended the belt more than one time in three + years it would mean something.
by memitim on Aug 16, 2011 11:19 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Most casuals I know that saw him fight Werdum thinks he sucks now. Saying he has that belt won't market him after that.
If I told you I had this watch, and it was the most important watch on the planet. You wouldn’t care if you never heard of it before. Saying he has this belt, this belt, and beat Todd Duffee for this belt no one will care. In my opinion of course.
It’s your opinion and it’s wrong haha. I win the internet :)
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions
But you don't know the casuals.
You just talked to a few folks who sometimes watch MMA.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
That's a casual fan
They are fans who casually watch MMA, and they think MMA if the UFC.
They train UFC.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I know people who literally say they "watch UFC"
when talking about MMA.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Dude, I'm not arguing about semantics,
I’m just saying because you talked to a few casual fans doesn’t mean you know what every casual fan thinks.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
I just think you are giing casual fans too much credit
We love MMA, they watch UFC. big difference.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure,
UFC didn’t call me yet to write the script for Mir-Overeem. It’s just my opinion that these belts make a difference. How big of a difference is another question.
When I started watching MMA a few years back, Rogan talking about those belts and AO’S accomplishments would’ve drawn my attention.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
I think you're really missing my point here.
I’m not talking about the truth or that you can pull 100k plus more PPVs with marketing and Overeem’s belts, I just think they might help with marketing the fight on some level for the casual fans when Rogan talks about his mancrush for Overeem etc.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
I think you are missing the point
Rogan can talk about Reem all he wants, but if he starks talking about Belt A,B, and C people will just say “It’s not the UFC belt”.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Sure they will say that,
but my point was those belts would matter something for marketing. You might think different, when you try to think like a casual fan.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
They may matter very very little, but not enough to give in to his demands at all
He either does this the UFC’s way, or not at all. Having 30 belts no one ever heard of doesn’t change that.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I wasn't talking about AO's 'worth'.
“Having 30 belts no one ever hard of” can matter if you market them right by countdown shows, Joe Rogan telling some shit about AO’s talent etc.
That’s my point, you disagree, and I agree to disagree.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
If he fought say Frank Mir for his first fight most
If not all would tune in for Mir, not his belts. Hardcores would tune in because they always do. overeem’s belts aren’t affecting the bottom line, so they don’t mean much at all.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
They might tune in for both?!
Like I said, it’s just me thinking with the knowledge I had when I started watching MMA. Those belts would’ve grabed my attention with the right marketing.
You think they wouldn’t have caught your attention and therefore won’t help with the casuals.
I don’t think we will know that for sure till Overeem signs with the UFC and his first fight is over.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
When i first got into MMA i didn’t give a shit about the Pride Belts until i watch Hendo KO Wand then i went youtube happy and started to read up and watch everything i could find.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
So there's a difference between us.
Am I right and speaking for all the casuals now? Or are you right? I don’t know.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
Its a different landscape now than back then as well. When i got into MMA there were other promotions out there who were jockeying for top spot. Today there is only the UFC for casuals.
When i got into MMA i had to go look at Pride if i wanted to know who every fighter was in the top five in every division. Now every top five is UFC or if not all most are UFC besides the lower weight classes.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
Fair enough.
When I started watching MMA there was only Strikeforce and UFC, but my friends and I realized pretty fast who the no 1 organization was.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
PRIDE carried a lot of weight back in the day
I still remember arguing that PRIDE was the best organization and the UFC fighters would be tooled in PRIDE.
That argument just doesn’t exist anymore.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Well as of now they are minor leagues. The closest thing to a creditable title AO has is the strikeforce title, but he beat a man who calls himself the head hunter when the last head he successfully hunted was a blackhead on his nose one morning after he brushed his teeth.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
Most casual fans also don't know much about Dos Santos...
and I’m pretty sure many of the PPV buyers would have a hard time mentioning Velasquez name. The belts are kinda meaningless for MMA, but that was not my point.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
They've actually seen him fight. This is getting silly, the comparison isn't even close.
JDS didn’t fight in Japan after midnight for 2 of those belts.
The belts aren’t important, but they are also not marketable because casual fans won’t care.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not comparing Overeem to JDS or Overeem's accomplishments to JDS.
I’m comparing the casual fan’s knowledge.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
Casual fans have seen JDS demolish Carwin
They never stayed up until 4 AM to watch Reem destroy Duffee.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
They have, but knowing JDS like we do is something else.
And being able to estimate his talent is something else entirely.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
Which is irrelevant for marketing a fight
If you don’t know someone and you are casual you don’t care. If you’ve seen someone “fight UFC” you do.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Fedor
Remember all the hype surrounding Fedor when the UFC was trying to sign him? How big of a fight would have Fedor vs. Randy or Fedor vs. Brock been?
The UFC marketing machine hadn’t even gotten started yet. Casuals had never seen a Pride fight. Many casual fans had heard of Fedor’s prowess through their hardcore friends. Maybe saw his videos on Youtube.
Point is, just because casuals aren’t familiar with Overeem RIGHT NOW doesn’t mean that they will never be.
by Pantherhare on Aug 16, 2011 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Fedor was considered by many to be the best in the world bar none back then. AO does not have that to back him up.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
By many?
You mean many hardcore fans? Just like many hardcores consider Overeem to be one of the best in the world?
by Pantherhare on Aug 16, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Nope, i meant the rankings at every site and MMA mag you looked at. Fedor was on top of them all, and right now AO is no where near that claim. He has the skills that could get him there, but does not have the body of work to lay claim to the top HW seed.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
Bas Rutten thinks he's best, his word his LAW
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions
"one of the best in the world"
Overeem is the consensus #3 and #1 outside of the UFC. How is that not one of the best?
The point was not that you have to be #1 for there to be hype. The point was that if lots of hardcores believe that you are awesome, word will spread to the casuals.
by Pantherhare on Aug 16, 2011 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Top outside the UFC is the same thing as being the best in the CHL. Goggle the name John Slaney. He was tearing things up in the minors, but once he got to the majors he was a wash. Being the best outside of the majors means nothing.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
Read my post again
And you will see that your response is not even remotely relevant.
by Pantherhare on Aug 16, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I just addressed the “Number 1 outside the UFC” statement. As for hype trickling down to the casuals i highly doubt it. Fedor was awesome for years and there was an army backing him and yet no one really cared about him. AO does not carry the claim of number one in the world.
Also, i highly doubt that what the hardcores think of a fighter has little to nothing to do with how the fighter draws. Many what is written and read by hardcore fans only reach a small number of casuals.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
PRIDE was the #1 organization back then, not the UFC. If you were an MMA fan you knew what PRIDE was and who Fedor was.
by memitim on Aug 16, 2011 11:24 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Pride was dead by that time
Casuals never saw a Fedor fight outside of Youtube. Probably a lot of hardcores too. Same could be said for Cro-Cop, who came into the UFC with a lot of hype (until Gonzaga derailed it).
by Pantherhare on Aug 16, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
What are you talking about? From 2000-2006 PRIDE was the premier MMA organization. There were no “casuals” who rode in on the heels of Monday Night Raw leading into TUF.
by memitim on Aug 16, 2011 11:53 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Those were some damn good years.
but I’m glad I don’t have to shut off the interwebs for ages to avoid seeing results anymore.
@rask4p on Twitter
When the UFC was talking about signing Fedor and the news made the LA Times about a deal being finalized, Pride was long dead dead (this was after Affliction, back in 2009, if recollection serves). Before that, there were rumors started by Chuck Liddell and later fed by Dana that Fedor was coming to the UFC. This was in 2007, shortly after the last gasps of Pride.
And I’d argue that the UFC surpassed Pride in 2006.
by Pantherhare on Aug 16, 2011 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Obviously the UFC surpassed Pride in 2006.
By the end of 2006 Pride had lost TV network support, shut down the Busido event, had a failed attempt to get Mike Tyson to fight, etc. It was over when The Real Deal only filled 12k seats.
@rask4p on Twitter
Did you read my post.
You said:
And I’d argue that the UFC surpassed Pride in 2006.
I said before that:
From 2000-2006 PRIDE was the premier MMA organization.
What’s your point?
Dude the casual needs to be grabbed y the highlight video. For Reem the K-1 footage is locked up over in Japan somewhere and a most of his latest footage isn’t against guys the casuals know. JDS on the other hand has footage of him in the UFC beating the face off Shane Carwin.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
About the footage
That’s a fair point. But what I was saying is simply that the UFC marketing monster can use those belts.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
What can they be used for though??
Its like trying to buy a car with gravel, the belts are worthless unless the person cares about them. I’m sure that Joe will plug the K1 title and SF title, but it will go in one ear out the other. Jake Shields was marketed that way and GSP still carried the PPV.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
This
You can Market it as Belt Vs belt, belt , belt and belt they won’t care. If they don’t care it doesn’t do anything.
You’d be better of marketing his body, they would at least care about that.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Market his body, market his belts
Whatever. The UFC can make Overeem into a credible challenger for the HW title.
by Pantherhare on Aug 16, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
This is the point though when it comes to Overeem's demands
The UFC can MAKE HIM a credible challenger, he doesn’t walk into the UFC that way to casual fans. Because of that he has to drop his demands or it won’t matter.
I’ve seen a lot of people compare this to Brock, but it isn’t the same. Brock had his own fanbase, Reem has to have a fanbase built around him. It could be done pretty easily, but it has to be done.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Chicken salad out of chicken poop
Can’t be done. You can’t take Todd Duffee and hype him the way you can Overeem, even though he has the physique. Right now, after JDS vs Cain, what other heavyweight fight can you hype like you can Overeem vs Cain? In fact, I think you can potentially get more hype and PPV buys from the latter.
by Pantherhare on Aug 16, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Which has to do with what?
Duffee didn’t win, if he had won he could be marketed to that point. They would have done it too, but he lost to Russow and ended that dream. So he went to DREAM.
No one is denying you can market Reem, he just isn’t at that level yet to have to give into his demands.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions
What specific demands are you talking about?
The immediate title fight? Why not? They gave one to Nick Diaz. After JDS, who would you give the title shot ahead of AO?
by Pantherhare on Aug 16, 2011 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Aug 16, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
You're killing me guys ^^
Once again, when I think back at the first UFC events I watched, marketing 3 championship belts would’ve mattered for me and I would’ve become much more interested.
You don’t think it matters anything? That’s okay with me.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
We get it. You would've cared.
No ones upset, we just don’t see much in how it matters.
I know plenty of casuals who don’t care about Overeem at all, let alone his belts. You said that doesn’t mean anything. In fact I don’t know a single casual who thinks he will beat Cain, Brock, Carwin, or JDS.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Maybe you're right and I'm wrong,
I didn’t start my argument with the claim that it’s statistically proven. On the other hand I don’t think the “plenty of casuals” you know necessarily correspond with the plenty of casuals in the reach of the UFC marketing machine.
And the less they know and care about AO the better. I belive the marketing can change that as soon as they realize it’s marketing branded with the 3 letters.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
Like I said you don't care that people I know don't care much about him
I don’t think his belts mean anything, end of the day it means the same thing without proof.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions
They don't mean anything.
But with marketing you can lie so they mean a thing.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
I don't mean they mean nothing from a belt perspective
I mean they don’t mean anything from a casual fan perspective.
I’m tired of going around in circles.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
my 'poem' wasn't meant to be a serious response
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
poem?
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions
yes, or at least the poor man's version of it
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
You guys are missing the point I think
If it were Overeem and some other organization trying to push him as the true #1 in the world or something similar, then these would all be valid points.
But it wouldn’t be, instead it would be the mighty UFC themselves, with their magical marketing machine (including Dana and Rogan) pushing him, his fights, his highlights and his accomplishments, and at the end of the day, that is all the casuals need.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Aug 16, 2011 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Completely true
I was a Jake shields fan before his UFC run and none of my casual friends understood why, they all were unimpressed with him. After a few months of hype they had all become convinced that he was going to run through GSP
"I knew I hurt him cause when I throw the elbow he went ugghh" - GSP
by Baby Wads on Aug 16, 2011 2:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
JDS fought on a PPV bought by about 300,000 households last time out. Overeem’s last fight was watched in twice as many households on premium cable.
by VirtualBalboa on Aug 16, 2011 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions
How many people know all the belts that Manny Pacquiao holds? Or Mayweather? Or the Klitschkos?
A belt is a belt when it comes to casual fans.
Yeah K-1 isn't MMA
A lot of K-1 fighters have great striking but then try MMA and get taken down at will and have no ground game, but AO has a great ground game and even won the ADCC Europe one year. This whole “Overeem’s K-1 success means nothing” fallacy is laughable. Maybe for someone who has a displayed lack of grappling ability it would apply.
Title shot is fine with me
Who else would get the winner of JDS/Cain?
Overeem vs. any of them would be nice
by The Art Of War on Aug 16, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
He would need to fight someone in front of ufc fans just for buyrate reasons.
Someone like mir would work. Or sacrifice carwin.
I don’t like immediate title shots just bc someone holds a useless mma belt. (Insert fanboys saying he’s the lineal champ!)
by dbcb on Aug 16, 2011 9:33 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
You can say that about other divisions but i thinks its a safe bet that the strikeforce and ufc hw belt are equal ……then the fact that he is the k-1 champ. Dream champ…and yeah lineal champ…….so yeah his position looks good.
Twitter: Killuminati_BE
by Killuminati on Aug 16, 2011 9:37 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The SF belt and the UFC belt are miles apart. The SF title has been defended all of one time and that was against a guy coming off a loss. The SF HW division probably has the talent in it to make the belt legit, but Reem has hardly fought anybody there,
I’d rather just climb this fridge
Miles apart? Look at who has defended and held the hw belt……miles apart is ridiculous. A couple yard maybe just cause a longer history…….cain has mad it a litll more legitmate but not miles.
Twitter: Killuminati_BE
by Killuminati on Aug 16, 2011 9:48 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It is miles apart. One champion with one defense. And he won it in a vacant match against paul bunatello. What exactly are you talking about?
by Spider_Vemon on Aug 16, 2011 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly, I understand your argument Kill in that the division in SF is strong enough for a legit title. That is true and you won’t hear different from me, but the fact of the matter it the title has to be judged by who has it and who he has fought to keep it, not by the guys standing in line peaking around the person in front of them wondering whats taking so long for their turn.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
I cannot fucking believe
someone is actually arguing that the Strikeforce heavyweight belt is even in the same universe of credibility as the UFC’s.
I now know what Neil Armstrong felt like before punching that guy in the face.
by A23 on Aug 16, 2011 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Wasn’t that Buzz Aldrin?
"All noble things are as difficult as they are rare."
- Baruch Spinoza
by Avap on Aug 16, 2011 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The hw division has never been great so to say the ufc hw belt is a different galaxy is ridiculous. If anything the pride hw belt prob still holds more cred. I do recognize the longer history but the weak roster doesnt make the ufc hw belt out of this world compared to any other hw division.
Twitter: Killuminati_BE
by Killuminati on Aug 16, 2011 10:11 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
because of whom?
heath herring, cro cop, nog, and fedor?
by Body Triangle on Aug 16, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Arlovski, Sylvia, Mir, Couture, Coleman Prime, Lesnar (current top 5 heavyweight), Velasquez (current #1 heavyweight) doesnt give it more credibility than the SF belt?
by Spider_Vemon on Aug 16, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
It has been defended against top competition (or what was considered top at the time) even since it was brought in. The Dream belt is a waste of breath that would have never existed if not for AO demanding that his fight be for it, and the SF belt was won in a match against a fringe top 25 fighter and then defended against a guy coming off a loss.
Both titles (Dream and Strikeforce) were last put up against a guy who was coming off a loss.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
UFC and Strikeforce belts are in different galaxies
I think people are confusing the comparison of belts with the comparison of the divisions. The case could be made that the Strikeforce heavyweight division is (or was) comparable to what the UFC has to offer. However, comparing the titles is another story. The UFC belt is defended about twice a year, usually against the very best competition available. To contrast, the Strikeforce belt was defended all of one time since it was created in 2007. Even then it wasn’t defended against top competition Strikeforce had to offer, it was given to Brett Rogers coming off a loss. Again, Strikeforce’s division may have been impressive, but it doesn’t really matter when talking about the importance of the belt when most of those guys were never given the opportunity to fight for that title. I mean, Werdum defeated Mike Kyle (ok, not super impressive), Bigfoot Silva, and Fedor, yet he STILL would have had to make it past Alistair (the actual champion), Bigfoot again, and the Barnett/Kharitonov winner to earn the opportunity to face the champion who he already would have beaten (twice). I know everything isn’t always perfect in UFC, but the Strikeforce heavyweight championship was an laughing stock.
With that said, I don’t think any of that really matters. As meaningless as those two belts may be, I think Alistair being shown on a UFC PPV holding one belt around each arm and one either around his waist or his neck saying “I’m coming to collect another belt” would be huge.
The Strikeforce Heavyweight Division is arguably on par with the UFC Heavyweight Division, but the belts themselves are completely different. There’s a difference between the weight division and the belt. The UFC name alone holds more weight than the Strikeforce name, and the UFC Title has been defended more than the Strikeforce Title.
Check out the C&D Channel on YouTube for MMA reviews, predictions, analysis, and other MMA related content.
Smart move to pull out of the GG fight
Lesson #1 – try not to piss off your boss (See: Ortiz, Tito)
There’s plenty of good fights for him in UFC, and his sprawl against Werdum looked really solid. Would it be enough to stop Cain? Maybe.
For sure he needs to work his cardio though, and maybe lose some of that muscle, it is in fact, too much of a good thing (esp for a 5 rounder)
--When you saw only one set of footprints, it was Herb Dean who carried you.
He should fight at least one time before fighting for the belt, Mir makes the most sense.
But he holds the Strikeforce belt and that was good enough to grant Nick Diaz a title shot in a depleted WW division. Logic dictates it should be good enough to get Reem a shot at the winner of JDS/Cain, not to mention he just beat the #1 contender in that division, as ugly as it might have been.
"A guy in Texas came up to me and told me ‘Frye you're not mixed martial arts, you're no holds barred’, and I said you're god damn right partner." ~ Don Frye
The WW division isn't depleted
GSP has just beat all of the contenders.
As for the HW division and an immediate title shot, probably not, and not based on whether or not he’s deserving, just that the UFC needs to put him in front of a UFC audience first.
GSP has just beat all of the contenders.
That’s what I meant. Its at the point that after Diaz, GSP is fighting either Carlos Condit, Tyrone Woodley, or somebody who’s ass he has severely kicked before.
"A guy in Texas came up to me and told me ‘Frye you're not mixed martial arts, you're no holds barred’, and I said you're god damn right partner." ~ Don Frye
There’s Rumble Johnson kicking around somewhere, but they may not risk him missing weight.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
He'll probably need more than 1 win too
I love dudes... - MostDiabolicalHater
Most of the time I am a rather quiet fellow, who likes to read about Philosophy, Mathematics and History, but like most people I also have a deep appreciation of sex and violence... - John Danaher
Rumble's 9-3 and just got back from a year and a half layoff, man.
And he got worked by Kos before that. He’s got a long way to go absent a top notch showing against The Spaniard.
"A guy in Texas came up to me and told me ‘Frye you're not mixed martial arts, you're no holds barred’, and I said you're god damn right partner." ~ Don Frye
by sBruce24 on Aug 16, 2011 7:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
The only thing with the Heavyweight Division and contendership is that after Velasquez vs dos Santos, there isn’t a clear cut contender. Brendan Schaub may be if he beats Nogueira, but I would honestly like to see him fight a Frank Mir or someone else before fighting for the UFC Heavyweight Title. Frank Mir is “in the mix.” However, I personally don’t feel there’s a clear cut contender after Velasquez vs dos Santos.
Check out the C&D Channel on YouTube for MMA reviews, predictions, analysis, and other MMA related content.
You're right
In that logic would seemingly dictate Overeem’s immediate title shot but Diaz was also a former UFC fighter who some of the fans are already familiar with.
It’s kind of tough because while they, the UFC, don’t have a contender lined up after JDS they may want to introduce The Reem to their audience first and I don’t think it’s a given he beats a guy like Mir.
by TMadeBurner on Aug 16, 2011 9:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I can see them wanting to give him one fight to build him up to casual fan, but I hope they don’t. I’m not a big fan of Overeem but I think him fighting Cain or JDS would be the most entertaining. I don’t see a clear front runner to fight the winner of JDS/Cain, might as well be Reem.
If they were to
Give him an introductory fight I think the play is Kongo. Perfect build up for Overeem since everything Kongo does Reem does better and Kongo gets a huge opportunity again but he more than likely continues on his path of gatekeeper of the UFC heavyweight elite.
by TMadeBurner on Aug 16, 2011 12:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i would have though Chieck Kongo.
then maybe another match, then the title shot.
by Victor Rodriguez on Aug 16, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
With the current state of HW’s in the UFC, I would have zero problems with him facing the winner of Cain and JDS. Let’s go!
by Shnak on Aug 16, 2011 9:37 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Who else is there to fight for the title after Cain and JDS slug it out? Brendan Schaub? Frank Mir?
Would you rather see Frank Mir or Schaub fight for the title or the strikeforce guys? I’d much rather see Overeem, Bigfoot or Barnett. Hopefully this happens.
by Tats16 on Aug 16, 2011 9:40 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
If Mir can get one more solid win i say give it to him.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
Mir should beat either Lesnar or Carwin before he gets another shot. He got annihilated by both of these guys, and he shouldn’t leapfrog them. Besides, I’m tired of seeing Mir fighting for a title, he doesn’t deserve to.
by Shnak on Aug 16, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If he can put the wins together he deserves it just as much as anyone, but yes Brock or Shane would be a good fight to decide it,
I’d rather just climb this fridge
If Mir can’t beat Brock or Shane, he has no chance in hell to beat JDS or Cain… no point in even seeing those fights. And after the crappy fights he’s put on against Cro Cop and Nelson, he sure as heck doesn’t deserve a title shot based on his recent performances either.
If Mir can’t beat Brock or Shane, he has no chance in hell to beat JDS or Cain… no point in even seeing those fights.
I liked his fight with Nelson and, aside from their ranking, what possible commonalities does JDS have with Carwin or Lesnar that make you think that? They are not remotely similar stylistically, and it is the huge wrestlers that Mir has such trouble with.
Frankly, I would take peak Mir over depleted Carwin right now.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Aug 16, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
I think whatever was left of Carwin after he got destroyed by JDS could’ve beat Mir immediately after…
I’m not so sure. He has clearly lost significant muscle mass, he is old and off a long layoff. He doesn’t have the same sort of strength he once did and he certainly appeared slower.
Of course, Mir is so prone to being taken down he might yet get him down, but if he can stay off the fence and out of the clinch he just might take it.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Aug 16, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions
It was a matter of ring rust paired with fighting a faster and more complete striker.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
That is clearly a possibility, but how much is really ring rust and how much is age/loss of muscle mass and lost training time…
I don’t think we’ll ever see Carwin win a high level fight again…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Aug 16, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
He'd be a great first fight for Reem though.
He is a lot like a more dangerous version of Werdum really.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Mir?
I don’t think so. His stand-up is probably as good as Werdum’s, but Werdum would tool him on the ground (although I think Mir’s BJJ for MMA is somewhat underrated).
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Aug 16, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Mir's biggest BJJ problem
is a tendency to get hit too much trying to use it. Against Werdum that wouldn’t be such a problem (though I’m having memories of the Pé de Pano fight as I type this).
"With gold thou boughtest Gýmir's daughter,
and so gavest away thy sword:
but when Muspell's sons through the dark forest ride,
thou, unhappy, wilt not have wherewith to fight."
~ Lokasenna
His stand-up is easily better than Werdum, but Werdum's JJ skills are unmatched in the HW division.
"A guy in Texas came up to me and told me ‘Frye you're not mixed martial arts, you're no holds barred’, and I said you're god damn right partner." ~ Don Frye
I’d give Overeem either Mir or Schaub first (if Schaub wins). I know Overeem wants the Diaz treatment, but I don’t see it happening.
In all likelihood he gets denied the shot, never comes to the UFC, fights in Japan for the rest of his days, and breaks my heart.
"All noble things are as difficult as they are rare."
- Baruch Spinoza
ditto. :( Im not going to get my hopes up. Imma expect the worst and if any thing else happens ill be happy.
by Spider_Vemon on Aug 16, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
The UFC HW contenders out there need at least 1 more fight to really separate them from the pack. Overreem fighting the winner of JDS/Cain gives those fighters a bit more time.
Honestly, no harm no foul, i don’t see Overreem beating JDS or Cain.
by squaresphere on Aug 16, 2011 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Despite what people may say about him not deserving it...
I’d rather see him fight for the title rather than Mir, Schaub or even Mitrione/Kongo.
"The one who doesn't fall, does not stand up" - Fedor Emelianenko.
by tkotom on Aug 16, 2011 9:43 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Yeah HW isn't exactly bursting at the seams with contenders.
by Lauren J Darkbloom on Aug 16, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not.
But Reem would definitely be the most interesting matchup.
Schaub, Mitrione, Browne, etc.. would all be boring.
"The one who doesn't fall, does not stand up" - Fedor Emelianenko.
Rua didn’t deserve the title fight against Machita and look what happened. Whether he deserves it or not he would be extremely marketable. Great for a UFC primetime. Who else would you like see fight the winner of Cain JDS?
All your doing is spewing garbage with no sense of order or articulation whatsoever. - SimplePsych
by frosty31 on Aug 16, 2011 9:44 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
There is no proof that he is marketable. Fedor should have been ratings gold and a PPV monster due to his ability to crush people yet be a pudgy Russian, yet he was a PPV flop.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
I think Overeem with the UFC hype machine = gold. Overeem is built like a greek god, has incredible talent, and the UFC can market better than anyone else in the biz. Fun fact: Americans like larger than life figures. (BROCK LESNAR!!!!) Overeem is an easy sale.
by Spider_Vemon on Aug 16, 2011 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Brock brought his own fanbase, Reem will have to find an american fanbase in the UFC
Big difference.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Fedor also doesn"t speak English.
AKA zakkree. Twitter.
Conductor and sole passenger on the Fitch bandwagon.
by Zachary Kater on Aug 16, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Like we won't hear chants of USA USA USA if Reem fought Brock or Carwin
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Not sure… Typically it happens, but a lot of people watch Brock to see him get beat. You bring Overeem in and market him as the clean-cut soft-spoken cage murderer and they might just root for him. Anyone who would root for Carwin over Reem is just silly. Or they’re an engineer.
AKA zakkree. Twitter.
Conductor and sole passenger on the Fitch bandwagon.
by Zachary Kater on Aug 16, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
He's kind of too arrogant to market as soft spoken
Maybe it would work but I don’t see it. Most of those chants happen when they barley even know the American fighter, they are just stupid and drunk.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
With the UFC market muscle behind him
Overeem could well become the biggest star in MMA with his combination of appearance, weight class, fighting style, telegenic personality, social media savvy, strong English skills and being well spoken.
Besides, aside from Lesnar for sure (who may never fight again) and possibly Mir (who will likely never see a title fight again), who exactly is marketable at HW?
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Aug 16, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
If for some he gets a UFC belt, he may be the most dominant MMA fighter of our time. It’s too soon to say of ALL TIME but I’ll go as far as to say OUR time. I mean, he looks like a BOWSS with just the 3
aka DJ Enwurd, on the wheels of steel spinnin only the livest shit you've heard on the radio over and over again while shakin his dreds.
@KrimsonTVN
DIA2ill.com coming soon....
I was trying to find a “Oh, I’m serious” pic but all i got was scandalous women, the animaniacs and eyes. But i digress, I may have jumped the gun witht hat statement.
aka DJ Enwurd, on the wheels of steel spinnin only the livest shit you've heard on the radio over and over again while shakin his dreds.
@KrimsonTVN
DIA2ill.com coming soon....
Here you go
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
His fight against Werdum made him the best fighter all time to me for sure.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions
He does hold the lineal heavyweight belt now. That counts for… something… right?
"All noble things are as difficult as they are rare."
- Baruch Spinoza
I know you're joking but I can't believe anyone brings that up seriously.
Some do and it blows my mind.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, that is pretty absurd. Though it would silence talk about it once and for all if it finally got reunited with the real UFC strap. Which would be cool. But the lineal title is meaningless except as an MMAth exercise leading to Enson Inoue.
"All noble things are as difficult as they are rare."
- Baruch Spinoza
I would love to hear the UFC market him that way though haha.
Rogan has to spend like 10 minutes explaining how he got to be the lineal champ on a countdown show.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Oh no no. If we are going to do this we are doing it right. Goldberg runs through the explanation, on live TV. That is the only way to do this thing justice.
"All noble things are as difficult as they are rare."
- Baruch Spinoza
I might cry laughing. Joe would have to help him, and Goldie would parrot a lot of it back.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
its not so far fetched
Dana would love to buy the opportunity to have the UFC champ be the lineal champ, its only gonna cost him one ppv with the Reem etc.
Not such a bad idea
its a better title than BADDEST MAN ON THE PLANET
I think Don Frye retired that one, from a purely mustache based perspective.
"All noble things are as difficult as they are rare."
- Baruch Spinoza
Everyone forgets this guy.
The North remembers...
Would you like Freys with that?
by iiowyn on Aug 16, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I dispute the superiority of Severn's mustache.
My rebuttal:
Severn’s looks whispy in comparison.
"All noble things are as difficult as they are rare."
- Baruch Spinoza
Baddest man on the planet sells so much better
Especially when they just saw him murder Frank Mir’s face.
Casual fans don’t know what a lineal champion is, and I’m sure they would stop caring once the belt left the UFC and ended up in Japan.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions
UFC has enough marketing prowess to change the name
doesnt have to be lineal champ
they could sell the winner as the ‘true heavy world champion’
They wouldn't do that. They are all about the UFC being the true champs of every division.
They would have to acknowledge that someone else out there could have a claim on true champ.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
It would be more of a throw-in
“…and also the holder of…”
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Aug 16, 2011 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Not gonna lie
No idea what lineal champion means
aka DJ Enwurd, on the wheels of steel spinnin only the livest shit you've heard on the radio over and over again while shakin his dreds.
@KrimsonTVN
DIA2ill.com coming soon....
Snowden did like 3 stories on it on BE not too long ago
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions
Oooooh yea
I remember those now. Nice history lesson too.
aka DJ Enwurd, on the wheels of steel spinnin only the livest shit you've heard on the radio over and over again while shakin his dreds.
@KrimsonTVN
DIA2ill.com coming soon....
That's really the important part.
The whole lineal champ is worthless, but the history is cool.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s too soon to say of ALL TIME but I’ll go as far as to say OUR time.
What does that mean?
"... All reined up in old language and old assumptions, straining to jump clean-hoofed on to a whole new track of being I only suspect is there. I can't see it, because my educated, average head is being held at the wrong angle..."
by dancingChicken on Aug 16, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Until this is confirmed and set in stone
Meet me on Monsta Island. Where the girls look good and the MC's be Wildin'.
Also, follow me on Twitter @DeoWade
by Damon O. on Aug 16, 2011 9:57 AM EDT reply actions 8 recs
Like a BOWSS?
aka DJ Enwurd, on the wheels of steel spinnin only the livest shit you've heard on the radio over and over again while shakin his dreds.
@KrimsonTVN
DIA2ill.com coming soon....
That would be perfect if Brock wasn't out until who knows when.
It’s a fight I would love to see, and if he wins it legitimizes him to casuals.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions
The two fighting with the winner getting Cain/JDS would be great.
by Spider_Vemon on Aug 16, 2011 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't think this is going to happen.
If he wants an immediate title shot, I think he will also want immediate PPV cut, and he won’t get that. I think he intends to ask for the sun, moon, and stars, and if he doesn’t get it he’ll continue doing what he’s been doing and won’t care.
The UFC doesn’t need Reem. They would love to have him , but they don’t need him like he is playing this.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
Every top level guy they bring in further legitimizes their claim to being the greatest organization out there. Do they really need him to prove that the UFC has the best HW division? Hell no. But it would go a long way to proving a commitment to truly bringing the best guys in to fight.
But as you say, Overeem’s demands may make this impossible. So, i agree.
"All noble things are as difficult as they are rare."
- Baruch Spinoza
They would love to have Reem I agree, I just think he overvalues himself
and we have seen the UFC not play that game before. Dana would just bury him until he loses like Fedor.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
This
is exactly what came to my mind when I first read the article. Overeem is gonna get himself Fedor’ed. I really, REALLY hope not. But I believe he will.
"All noble things are as difficult as they are rare."
- Baruch Spinoza
I've thought that since he got release, and after watching the interview it just sealed it up.
He said having to give up the belts he has is “worth something”, and he needs to get something for that. When in reality it isn’t worth much, and you are getting the chance to fight in the UFC, in front of the most fans possible. That’s what you get for no longer being the DREAM champ.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions
And now Dana is saying they are nowhere close to a deal. All I see in the end is…
"All noble things are as difficult as they are rare."
- Baruch Spinoza
I wouldn't expect a deal to be done until the end of the negotiation period, if at all.
Both sides will have to posture back and forth, and then Reem has to decide to either give in or not. In the end I think he walks away, because he manage his career better outside the UFC. in order to hand the reigns of his career over he is going to want a PPV cut, and immediate title shot.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
This has made me happy
-AboveThisFire
The mat is my church, the ground is my heaven, Jiu-Jitsu is my religion. And once you hit the ground you're in my world. My world is like the ocean, I’m like a shark and most people don't even know how to swim - Draculino
If I live in a castle and you want to kill me, storming the gates is probably not the best idea. You'd do a lot better hitting me in the head with a brick when I come out for the mail. -Ryan Hall
by Patrick Tenney on Aug 16, 2011 10:09 AM EDT reply actions
I don't like Overeems attitude,
he acts as if he’s worth me than he really is. Yes he’s the strikeforce champion, but he’s fought almost no one worth mentioning in quite a while outside of Werdum. I think he’s a quality fighter but hasn’t been tested in quite a long time and needs to calm his ego.
I hope the UFC and Strikeforce let him go so he understands that HE needs the Zuffa, and not the other way around. Who’s he going to fight for? K-1 is a viable option but it seems that isn’t a safe long term bet. Dream? And fight one or twice a year, maybe? The smaller orgs. won’t pay him the money he’s asking for either.
http://nohonestsleep.tumblr.com
http://penguinsfromthenorth.tumblr.com
http://www.scenepointblank.com
You named one,
so please, feel free to give me some more options since you claim he has “tons”
He does have It’s Showtime, won’t deny that. I think they’d like to have Overeem fight for ’em.
http://nohonestsleep.tumblr.com
http://penguinsfromthenorth.tumblr.com
http://www.scenepointblank.com
by Chad Raynard on Aug 16, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I’d say any other MMA promotion that can pay him and give him cans to crush. I don’t have a comprehensive list, but I’m sure some exist. BAMMA maybe?
"All noble things are as difficult as they are rare."
- Baruch Spinoza
Many of the options other fighters have outside the UFC are no good to AO because he is out of their price range.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
Didn't stop Fedor from bankrupting org after org
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s Showtime, K-1, DREAM, BAMMA, ProElite, Bellator, MFC, TitanFC just to name a few.
Can they all afford him? Probably not. But if he ends up on the zuffa shitlist then I guess he’ll be forced to take the paycut and fight more often (which he seems ok with).
Reem would never fight for Bellator
They wouldn’t want him for one “superfight”, and he won’t get locked into one of those tourney contracts.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions
So you give me a list of promotions that won't pay for Overeem
like I said above and you also mention so you’re wrong.
http://nohonestsleep.tumblr.com
http://penguinsfromthenorth.tumblr.com
http://www.scenepointblank.com
by Chad Raynard on Aug 16, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
First i want to say im a big fan of the Reem
but i’m a frustrated fan, Reem performed poorly against Werdum, if he beat him like he did to Rogers the UFC might be leaning towards a title shot.
Unfortunately, fighting against Werdum brought back old memories of the reem being ko’d by chuck, shogun, submitted by werdum, he was not himself that day.
Frank Mir vs The Reem, it only makes sense right now the winner will take on schaub/big nog and on to a title shot.
however, the HW div is pretty thin, do i think the reem stands a chance against JDS? JDS is like a super upgraded version of anything he has faced, lets not forget kharitonov killed the reem a few years back, and JDS doesnt get bullied, when things don’t go the way the Reem wants in a fight he tends to falter and weaken.
Let’s move on to Cain for a minute, The Reem has a shot against Cain more than JDS , however the same thing applies, Cain is too fast, too intense , too everything he would probably overwhelm the reem.
why am i saying all this stuff? Alistair hasn’t been facing top level competition, those belts are belts however anyone could have won them too.
Brock might be back soon, this could be perfect as a set up, Brock vs The Reem.
In conclusion, I think it’s quite possible he will get a title shot due to the lack of talent in the HW div, however he should be careful what he wishes for.
by elmojo on Aug 16, 2011 10:18 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
So much cock tease in the news today!!!!
This is M1/Zuffa negotiations all over again
It's not quite as bad since GG doesn't want to co-promote, but I think it ends very similarly yes.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions
Isn't Rousy 145?
I think Rousy should fight more often and Strikeforce should plan for a Cyborg fight in the future. But Rousey (or Rousy?) will definitely need time for that. Especially with her striking.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
I think they should outlaw Cyborg as a living form of steroid
She’s just too much woman for anyone in that division.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions
not until she finishes cleaning up the inevitable ONE FC women’s division.
hey, a guy can hope, right?
by Victor Rodriguez on Aug 16, 2011 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Marloes would light her up
:)
"Then when he hit me, and I woke up. I remember thinking, sh-t, I better do something or I'm going to lose this fight," Struve said. "Then he hit me again."
"For me everything is still fine. I’m OK. I’ve done it and it was OK. About half a year ago, it was in Russia, in Siberia. Everything was fine. I put the fork underneath him and stabbed him in the heart. And that was it. The other hunters dismembered, prepared the bear." - Aleksander Emelianenko
by invinciblearmour. on Aug 16, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions
Wonder how much of this...
Is negotiation to bring a lot more GG fighters than just Overreem over. Don’t forget a handful of their fighters got cut and a smart stable would try to negotiate a package deal for several fighters while using the leverage of Overreem’s championships.
He has very little leverage.
only hard core fans know who he is, and his title don’t mean anything. The UFC won’t let him set the table for this one, and they have proven that before. He may be trying to do this, but he needs to give up on that ASAP.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I was thinking
More likely the immediate title shot is just part of the first round of negotiation. They’ll soften to, ok we’ll do a tune up fight then the title shot, but you need to bring on xyz GG fighters; and so on.
by squaresphere on Aug 16, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
just thinking
Maybe Carwin? Good wrestler, good power in his hands. He can also take a pretty good beating we saw that in his last fight. I think that would b a fun fight to watch
by fightersvizion on Aug 16, 2011 10:58 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Would they want to do that to Carwin though?
Are they still interested trying to get him back to a title shot, or are they willing to throw him to the wolves and see if he survives.
If he gets wrecked by Reem he loses all his ability to get back to the top after 3 loses to top guys. But if he beats Reem it throws off the Reem bandwagon for someone who just got crushed by JDS.
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
Mir or Schaub
make sense. Kinda protect the Reem from wrestlers so you can push him to the title fight.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
You hate Schaub
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
by Chris Hines on Aug 16, 2011 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions
haha, actually I do.
He’s not a bad fighter, but in Lesnar’s words he doesn’t wow me either. I just didn’t like how Schaub was handling the Cro Cop fight, his interviews etc.
But I guess he couldn’t handle it any different since Cro Cop was long gone and the fight was booked.
"No man dies for what he knows to be true. Men die for what they want to be true, for what some terror in their hearts tells them is not true."
this feels like the new zuffa/fedor/m-1 global-drama
by the guy with the big nose on Aug 16, 2011 11:35 AM EDT reply actions
This entire episode has been totally predictable. People take a lot of lies at face value, and we see the same sort of discussions pop up any time something comparable happens (Cro-Cop, Rampage Jackson, Tito, Couture). Ultimately, Overeem will sign with the UFC and probably fight for the title because it makes sense for all parties.
here is exactly what is going to happen with Overeem;
he will ask for A LOT of money because he thinks he is the best heavyweight in the world
Dana and company will remind him that no one in the U.S. knows him (except hardcore fans), he isnt a big PPV draw so he doesn’t deserve that kind of money.
the two sides of the table will stare at each other until Overeem gets a text from some other company in Japan offering more money.
Overeem will get up and leave and will not sign an exclusive with the UFC
end of story
If both sides really want to do a deal, it probably makes the most sense to have him fight Mir first, with the winner facing the winner of Cain/JDS, and preferably on free TV for maximum casual exposure.
As for PPV points, which are very likely the real sticking point, grant them only on title fights or where he headlines a card.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Aug 16, 2011 4:25 PM EDT reply actions
Zuffa should pay them elite money, not Brockish money, but in the next tier down. I fear that Reem is going to ask for way too much.
Whatever, if he fights that’s great, I’d love to see him fight against Junior and Cain, but if he doesn’t it’s no sweat off my back. He can float around fighting whoevers for as long as he wants, I’m not worried about him anymore.
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
Overeem Vs.
The Zuffa know they have a hugely marketable fighter in Overeem and I don’t think they will be as heavy handed with him as they were with Fedor (simply because GG doesn’t want cross promotion). The UFC has exactly 3 top level heavyweights (or 2 elite heavyweights if you remove Lesnar) and they will need to bolster their Heavyweight roster if they want to be successful on Fox. Overeem vs. Lesnar could be the biggest heavyweight draw in the world if Lesnar comes back next year, and the schedules could line up for the winner of that fight to challenge for a title. It seems like a win/win for Zuffa if they can agree to the financials. If Reem destroys Lesnar, you have another star on your roster; if Lesnar wins, you have a legitimate reason to throw him back in a title fight against either JR or Cain.
You cant say Reem's three titles mean nothing
Because casuals dont know them. Then say Fedor or Diaz are different. Either accomplishments outside of the UFC mean something, or they dont.
I'M MADDER N HALE!!
by warren305 on Aug 16, 2011 7:51 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
And just look at that guy
If you dont think hes easily the most marketable guy they could have, youve got blinders on.
I'M MADDER N HALE!!
by warren305 on Aug 16, 2011 7:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
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