10 months ago
Nate Wilcox
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Nicely put
Imperfect is a great way to put it. Once a figher goes limp and falls face first you cannot really say it was a bad stoppage. Not stopping it at that point (though it has happened from time to time) can certainly be dangerous and not in the fighters best interest.
That said, I certainly would have liked it to at least go on a few more seconds just to see if he could have made any type of recovery. So imperfect seems a great way to put it. It was an appropriate call by the ref, but I wish it would have occured a bit differently.
Limp body = Good stoppage
Every time. If you get hit so hard that you can’t control your body, stopping the fight is justified.
by IRH on Aug 1, 2011 10:33 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Yall are wack
The fight was stopped after Fedor rolled over and was defending
the only “defense” fedor had was because herb was preventing hendo from ful out blasting fedor more. go watch again
by AndrewBlakesley on Aug 1, 2011 11:43 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Fedor was out
Pro fighters don’t face-plant for no reason. In MMA once you go out, you’re not (supposed to be) given a chance to recover. At that point he was already concussed and his ability to recover quickly is immaterial. Great stoppage.
And does anyone actually think Dan wasn’t going to pound the snot out of Fedor until Herb stepped in? That fight was over.
by d.rok on Aug 1, 2011 11:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We already know
Fedor face-planted due to being unconscious and Hendo was mauling him with undefended shots.
Did the Fedor apologists and sane MMA fans watch different fights?
by d.rok on Aug 1, 2011 12:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I’m indifferent about who the winner of this particular fight was but assumptions aren’t facts. He may have comeback and he may have laid out unconscious as Dan’s hand was raised. Like I said, we will never know. I’m ok with it I’m just stating the only fact.
by Afrotikiman on Aug 1, 2011 1:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I was talking facts
In the fight I watched Hendo hit Fedor with a right uppercut and Fedor’s face hit the mat. Are you disputing he was knocked out? If so, how do you explain him face-planting and not moving? Are you disputing he hit the mat face-first? Are you disputing he was hit at all? Was he playing possum or something?
If he went unconscious for ANY length of time, the fight needs to be stopped. Or are you saying the rule needs to change and KOd fighters should be given time to recover like in boxing? The FACT is he went out and the fight was rightfully stopped. Fighters aren’t given a chance to come back from a KO.
by d.rok on Aug 1, 2011 1:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
“We already know” is what I was responding to…how do we already know what wasn’t given a chance to happen?
And to all of the other stuff, should te commissions go back and reward Barry the win over Kongo? Or Maynard over Edgar? Or Daley over Diaz? I understand the letter of te law but I (emphasis on that little word) felt Fedor wasn’t finished.
by Afrotikiman on Aug 1, 2011 1:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What?
I didn’t say anything about any other fights. Moving on from the strawman…
We do already know. They fought and Hendo knocked him out. I don’t see how that’s dispute-able. I honestly don’t see how you could have watched the same fight I did and form an unbiased opinion that Fedor wasn’t out.
You say you’re talking about facts but then say your opinion is Fedor could have possibly recovered. One, that’s your opinion (and probably wrong), and two, that’s completely over-looking that he had already been concussed. Is that what you’re disputing? That Fedor went out? Again, if so, how do you explain him face-planting?
It doesn’t matter if he could have recovered. In MMA, once you go out, the fight is over. You don’t get a chance to recover. It was a good stoppage and Herb did a great job of protecting Fedor from taking unnecessary additional damage. Most of these fighters will keep fight if they have any ability to, no matter what. That doesn’t mean they should be allowed to.
Fighters should take note, if you get dropped and your face hits the mat, you’re not going to be allowed to continue.
by d.rok on Aug 1, 2011 2:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
We don't even know if he went unconcious
All we know is a punch made him go limp for a second, he got hit in the back of the head twice and then rolled to defend. All of this happened in less than 3 seconds.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
he went limp
That’s my point. Good stoppage.
Ref’s can’t do medical exams in cage to determine if a fighter is fit to continue. For the purpose of his job, going limp == knocked out == can’t continue.
by d.rok on Aug 1, 2011 2:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That's not true
We’ve seen many fighters go limp but not be knocked out. We’ve seen many fighters given the chance to prove their still in the fight after going limp. Fedor was already rolling to do something 2 seconds after going limp.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
Well if YOU say so...
Some kind of KO when you wake up and start rolling for s defensive position in less than 3 seconds.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
So what do you propose exactly? After a fighter goes limp the ref in his head counts one-thousand one.. one-thousand two, one-thousand three, one-thousand four, one-thousand five. And if after a five second count of the fighter laying limp on the ground being beaten in the head by the other we say OK, he probalby isn’t going to recover, lets end this fight.
What is the proper amount of time to allow a fighter to be assulted while laying limp on the floor before the the ref should stop the fight? And lets not go to “well there was this one time blah, blah, blah happened”. Let’s just try to decide what is the amount of time a ref should wait after a fighter falls limp to the floor before they stop the fight.
What should the rule be?
The rule should be “lets see if he does something to defend himself” Which Fedor did in less than 2 seconds. WHILE being hit in the back of the head in less than ONE second after hitting the mat.
It doesn’t need to be concrete, there simply needs be be enough time given to make sure every fighter has a fair chance to overcome adversity.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
Herb said he made the decision to stop the fight as soon as Fedor went limp.
He said he can’t predict how long guys will be out for.
by d.rok on Aug 1, 2011 5:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
That's a stupid decision
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
It's stupid he's not a mind reader?
Wow. Just fucking wow.
by d.rok on Aug 1, 2011 5:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Who said anything about being a “mind reader”. It’s stupid and lazy to decide to stop the fight before actually seeing if the fighter is fit to continue.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
Watch the replay. Herb is directly over the action. His face not more than 3-4 feet away looking direclty into Fedor face. He was looking directly into Fedors face as Henderson landed two completely undefended blows without Fedor making a move. Sucks that the moment he jumped in Fedor began to roll, but to say he was lazy and didn’t actually see the fighter was fit to continue is just wrong.
Read what I said
it lazy to decide to stop a fight the moment a fighter goes limp, like Herb said he did. You need to make sure the fighter can’t continue before you make that call, which you seem to be arguing Herb did. Which seems to be disagreeing with what Herb said, but whatever.
Regardless, he didn’t make the right call about Fedor’s fitness to continue since he was rolling to a defensive position, while taking blatant illegal strikes, 2 seconds after landing on his face.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
I get what you are saying. I understand that in your eyes limp=fight over. I disagree with that. So I get this correct. Every single time a fighter goes limp, that is the end of it?
by Afrotikiman on Aug 1, 2011 3:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This is getting ridiculous
According to the rules, yes. When you are not in control of your body you are not intelligently defending yourself.
by d.rok on Aug 1, 2011 3:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
So some of the best fights are due to bad refing?
by Afrotikiman on Aug 1, 2011 3:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What does that have to do with anything?
Look up strawman argument. I’m not falling for it, so stop trying.
In THIS fight, Fedor was clearly out and it was a good stoppage. Whether or not you choose to see it is up to you. Or maybe you’re trying to troll. Whatever. In either case, good day.
by d.rok on Aug 1, 2011 3:25 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I just want to see if you stick to your guns if it’s a different scenario. But aparently that is too much to ask. I’m so very sorry for even beginning to possibly, sort of change topics (but not really).
by Afrotikiman on Aug 1, 2011 3:35 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
You misdirected without answering my questions in an attempt to get me to argue for a position I never stated.
Those other fights are irrelevant. I’m saying THIS fight was called correctly. You can’t debate that without bringing up meaningless shit. Don’t act like I’m the one whose playing dodgeball here.
by d.rok on Aug 1, 2011 5:00 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
It's not meaningless
to see if you’re consistent.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
Your questions seemed rhetorical for the most part. You accused me of trolling and I just wanted to know if it wasn’t fedor would you have the same view. Because my view of this situation has nothing to do with the fighters involved. I’d say the same thing if it was Henderson being prematurely stopped. Seemed simple in theory. Sorry.
by Afrotikiman on Aug 1, 2011 5:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
My questions weren't rhetorical.
This has nothing to do with Fedor. I was actually disappointed to see him lose because I don’t want him to retire. But the stoppage was a good stoppage.
Which fights specifically do you want me to comment on? I’ll watch them again and give my opinion if the stoppages were good or not.
by d.rok on Aug 1, 2011 5:44 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I just brought up Edgar/Maynard 3, Kongo/Barry, and Diaz/Daley because the GIFs are all over the site.
by Afrotikiman on Aug 1, 2011 5:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
By your “face-plant” logic Diaz should have lost to Daley and Aaron Riley should have never had a rematch w/ Shane Nelson…
As for what would have happened had Dean not stepped in, we’ll never know, which of course fuels conjecture and discussion.
I can see why Dean stopped the fight, but most people are really oversimplifying the stoppage – which is why Luke Thomas’ article is worth reading.
I've said this before and I'll say it again: Just because he's moving doesn't mean he's anywhere in it mentally.
What you’re seeing is muscle memory. It’s the same when guys get knocked silly and try to grapple with the ref after the fight is already over. It’s his body reacting to hours and hours of training, drilling the same thing over and over again. It can help fighters stay in the fight until their mind snaps back into it, but it doesn’t mean they are in any way capable. Considering Dean interfered, I think that saved Fedor from more unnecessary punishment. To take more punches to the head after his brain is already rocked only increases the chances of permanent damage. One of the saddest results from combat sports is seeing great fighters punch drunk.
"He's moving. let him fight"
"... All reined up in old language and old assumptions, straining to jump clean-hoofed on to a whole new track of being I only suspect is there. I can't see it, because my educated, average head is being held at the wrong angle..."
by dancingChicken on Aug 1, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha!
My dad has this fight on video and he always loves to show it to me.
I went whale watching the other day. I think. There were a lot of people in that lake.
jeez this is already old
fedor was clearly rolling over to defend…while being hit he was moving his left arm under his body to roll…thats not being Ko’d. lol he was hit just a few inches from the mat and fell face 1st ok but he wasnt Ko’d…BAD STOPPAGE haters…
VIA MMAJunkie and it state my sentiments EXACTLY !!!!!!!
Referee Herb Dean has reviewed the footage of his call this past Saturday in the main event of “Strikeforce and M-1 Global: Fedor vs. Henderson” and has come to the same conclusion as the one he made in a split second.
Fedor Emelianenko was unconscious, taking punishment, and out of the fight.
“If I was to do it again – if I see a fighter face down receiving shots, I’m going to step in and stop the fight,” Dean today told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com). “I can’t predict how long he’s going to be unconscious for.”
Herb is the Best in the Business for a reason
"If I was to do it again – if I see a fighter face down receiving shots, I’m going to step in and stop the fight," Dean today told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com). "I can’t predict how long he’s going to be unconscious for."
You should stop the fight
to stop the guy from punching someone in the back of the head.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
The only reason it wasn't stopped immediately is because
Herb is a GOOD ref and he got up close and seen Fedor lying face first on the canvas taking punches so he stopped it just like he is supposed to do. The fight was over Fedor was out. Saying you know for a fact he was defending himself because he was rolling over is just stupid. What do you do in the morning when you wake up face down? YOU ROLL OVER! You don’t just lay there face first into the pillow. Fedor woke back up and his body rolled over just like it’s done a million times when waking up and in training.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
When I awake face up, I turn face down.
by Afrotikiman on Aug 1, 2011 3:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Cry me an F'N river
The fedor fanboys come out in droves crying foul when he loses, they have more excuses than Tito in a post lose interview. Its a big conspiracy when the God of MMA loses. Get over it ya nutters he lost he was knocked out, it was a fair and just stoppage. DEAL WITH IT good god fedor is human everyone loses some more than others.
Fedor was not intelligently defending himself, end of story. Did he protest? nope. why are you?
It's just a world, it's just a life.
Ummmm
Fedor did protest.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Aug 1, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
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