Jon Fitch in a Nutshell.
by pud333 on Jul 21, 2011 5:18 PM EDT
Email
PrintI've been thinking a lot about Jon Fitch lately. (Not in that way). A lot of MMA fans don't like Fitch. They don't like his style, they don't like the string of decisions, and some of them even want him to be dropped by the UFC (which is incredibly asinine). I've been thinking a lot about Jon Fitch lately because I'm been trying to figure out why people don't like him. It's not all the decisions that I believe bothers people, it's how he gets those decisions. It's because he risks nothing.
I like fighters like Carlos Condit who will take risks. Fighting is risky, but to have a guy like Condit go all out in his stand-up with no fear of being taken down because he is so confident in his ground game, is why I like fighters like him. He's willing to give up a safe, positional game for the finish. He's fearless.
But I like Fitch too. I don't expect others to like him, and I'm definitely not going to sit here and be condescending with lines like, "You just don't understand his fighting style..." or "The quality of opponents is incredibly high, thus harder to finish..." I just like him because of who he is. He's humble, he's a hard worker, he's methodical, he's probably one of the toughest fighters out there (both physically and mentally), and he's relentless. It's rare to find all these qualities together in one exceptional fighter. And he is exceptional. You don't go 13-1-1 in the UFC if you're a chump. There is something absolutely intruiging and special in watching someone with a fighting style that all but a couple of the absolute elite have been able to figure out.
But he absolutely refuses to give up a safe position to go for the finish. And that's his problem. The decisions, the fan hate - they're all symptoms of the disease. He's a wrestler, so I understand the need for control and positional advantage. But I wish he would incorporate more submission attempts into his fighting.
Look, Jon Fitch is quicksand. The more you struggle under him, the worse it becomes for you as you tire out and enventually break mentally. Just look at BJ Penn's expression right after their fight. He knew he was drowning. I believe Jon Fitch would do better to just attempt more submissions. He doesn't have the KO power to knock people out standing. But he has the smothering top control to wear people down and eventually submit them if he tries. I believe even if he loses position for a finish and doesn't get it, he has the skill to take almost anyone back down, and regain position. Take down, get position, some ground'n pound, then try for a submission. Wash, rince, repeat.
But he won't do that. He absolutely refuses to give up positional control, mostly because it is counterintuitive to him. And that is why he will forever be chasing a title shot. Sure, eventually if he keeps on winning, the UFC has no choice but to give him that shot. But they'll delay it for as long as they can, making him take fights against high risk, low reward fighters. If he loses, he may never get back to where he is in the welterweight division, which is why I see this as a self fullfilling prophesy.
I love Fitch. He's a brilliant fighter and I'll always be a fan. But he frustrates me sometimes.
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
63 comments
|
7 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Good article; great points.
Fitch bores me. I’m glad he is where he is, making a good living and not taking much damage, but I’ll be damned if I can find a way to enjoy his fights.
The only exception was his fight against GSP, but that was because GSP put on a clinic. Fitch has to do to things to get another shot – excite fans, and convince Dana that he has a chance to win.
"Very broken in his right hand is Martin Kampmann"
"This is the internet: you either have soul-stopping power or you’re a pillow-fisted pansy. There is no middle ground." - woomikee
I have to wonder whether Fitch makes a very good living from fighting. Maybe he has some sweet sponsorship deals or an ownership interest in a gym or something that bump up his gross income, but his recent fights haven’t paid very big. His reported base pay per fight for his last three fights ranges from $45,000 to about $55,000 (the salaries for the Australia card weren’t officially reported, I believe, but he got a base of $54,000 for the fight before that one). His win bonuses effectively double the pay. He’s probably in the top quarter of earnings among all UFC fighters, but to be ranked #2 or 3 and only pull what he’s getting paid doesn’t seem like his value is set very high.
.....
In the Land of the Blind, the One-eyed Man coaches the archery team.
by Scabby Knuckle on Jul 22, 2011 5:08 AM EDT up reply actions
Fighters are paid based on the viewers they'll draw
Fitch has had several opportunities to gain fans, and everytime he goes out there and does exactly what people have come to expect.
Look at what they paid Dominic Cruz, #1 in his weight class.
Look at what they paid James Toney, probably the lowest ranked UFC HW of all time.
by Hashmo on Jul 22, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
In all fairness
Cruz is still under a WEC contract. I’m sure he’ll be making six figures when that deal is up.
I only like paid to trade guys
thats y tuf guy contests are way better than ufc. I dont have enough patients or brains to care about real martial arts
I like Fitch too...
…I understand the criticisms against him but he’s still the #2 welterweight in a sharktank division and organization overall. Respect.
See that’s the thing. People can hate the guy, find him boring, etc. but they have to respect his skills. There are plenty of fighters I dislike, but respect their abilities and their accomplishments.
by pud333 on Jul 21, 2011 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Thats the thing about it I suppose.
I’d guess most people do respect his ability to WIN. but its the method to his winning that has me (and I guess most others) not wanting to watch him fight. He is a great fighter in his own way, and he wins against exceptional competition….but the way he fights prevents me from ever being even the tiniest bit excited to watch him.
by El Pablo Diablo on Jul 21, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions
The UFC is a business.
businesses want to make money. Fitch fights dont get people excited, they dont sell out arenas, they dont sell huge PPVs. 1 + 1 = 2. its not hard to figure out and I dont understand why he never seems to grasp this in his interviews. He has to know what people want and what people are disappointed with. No one can be that blind to public opinion. I guess his position is that he is winning and if he keeps beating great opposition he will be rewarded. He may be rewarded with a title shot, but he sure wont be rewarded with fans.
by El Pablo Diablo on Jul 21, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that's just who Fitch is.
You’re never gonna see him force his personality out there. He thinks dedication and hard work gets rewarded – which it does – but fighting is more than that. Image matters so much in this sport. He lacks that appealing image. Maynard has the same problem.
Chael Sonnen had the same problem, too. That’s an important thing to remember when putting his “character” in perspective. He got tired of it, just like Fitch is getting irritated (Fitch needs to start GnPing like Sonnen, never mind promoting). Maynard doesn’t give a fuck so bless his heart.
"He's like Elvis in Korea! They love him there." - Mike Goldberg on Denis Kang
Exactly
But to be fair Chael Sonnen does take risks with his GnP, that is the reason why he gets submitted from time to time. If he fought like Fitch he wouldn’t have been submitted by Anderson Silva in the final round, but then again to be fair ANderson Silva would have gotten some stand ups to work with also
Yeah, Fitch would risk being submitted or losing position, and as the article mentions he seems to hate risk.
I think the main reason Chael had to stay postured up in Anderson’s guard was to avoid having his face shredded with elbows. But he always sort of fights like that.
"He's like Elvis in Korea! They love him there." - Mike Goldberg on Denis Kang
by Bolshevik on Jul 22, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I would credit his tendency to tap more to his God-awful sub defense than overly-aggressive G&P
by Forbidden Psychological Technology on Jul 23, 2011 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah people keep saying that, but I don’t see this devastating ground and pound Chael supposedly dishes out, at risk to himself. I think it’s partly his sub defense, and partly just psychological. In my opinion, some part of Chael goes haywire when things are going too much his way.
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 24, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I agree
Back before he fought Anderson I said something to the effect of I think he considers himself unworthy and subconsciously sabotages himself or provides the means to beat him as a result.
Kind of like Thanos….
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Jul 24, 2011 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Check out that new interview in the Fanshots...
Pretty interesting that it showed up today after we’ve been discussing it. Chael basically says as much, that it’s mainly psychological. One of the few totally sincere interviews I’ve heard him give. I actually like that Chael Sonnen! A bit anyway:)
What's this war in the heart of nature? Why does nature vie with itself? The land contend with the sea? Is there an avenging power in nature? Not one power, but two?
by Kwisatz Haderach on Jul 25, 2011 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions
If that's the case, I sure as Hell hope he doesn't lose.
Because the minute he does, he’ll never never have a chance to fight for the title again. Doesn’t matter if he cranks out more decisions as long as he wins. I had a heart attack when he almost finished B.J. Penn — and I really don’t like B. J. Penn as a fighter.
(He just bugs me.)
Staff Editor at GamePro
Follow Me: @KenTheGreat1
I Interviewed Dana White Once & It Was Totally Cool
by McKinley B. Noble on Jul 22, 2011 3:34 AM EDT up reply actions
at this point of his career.
Fitch should understand that winning is not everything.
Jon might be at the point in his life when he is already satisfied at what he has accomplished and his pays are good enough for his family.
If he truly wanted, to make a Title shot his main priority – he would be taking alot more risks for finishes.
Is it a sport or isn’t it?
The MMA Encyclopedia. Shooters: Pro Wrestling's Real Life Tough Guys Coming Soon!
by Jonathan Snowden on Jul 22, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It is a sport, but...
It is one without a clear path to championship contention. All fights are scheduled at the whim of SIlva/White, and thus the marketability of the fight carries more weight than it would or should in a more “pure” sport.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Jul 22, 2011 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions
rec’d because I agree completely. Two additional points:
Despite the string of decisions, that doesn’t mean Fitch’s fights are always boring. The BJ fight, for instance, was incredibly exciting in light of the back and forth second round and the way Fitch thoroughly dominated in the third.
I think the guy might finally be turning a corning in his career to where he starts risking things a little bit more and pushing forward a little more. He’s got to the point in his career where he should only going to be in big fights, yet he just lost out on a big fight because he’s not a fan favorite. That realization coupled with his frustrations about it should ultimately drive him to do something about it in the cage. At least I hope so.
by dropkick101 on Jul 21, 2011 8:50 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
And, as an additional point, it really is a bit unfair how much Fitch gets criticized for not finishing based on the quality of his opponents. Look at his string of opponents since the GSP fight:
Akihiro Gono: has had 16 fights from 2005 until now and has only been finished twice — by Dan Hornbuckle and Dan Henderson.
Paulo Thiago: never stopped in 16 career MMA fights, including 6 UFC fights.
Mike Pierce: never stopped in 15 career MMA fights, including 5 UFC fights and 1 WEC fight.
Ben Saunders: stopped once in 15 career MMA fighters, including UFC fights.
Thiago Alves: finished twice in 15 career UFC fights, one stoppage of which was by Fitch. Since that stoppage loss to finish, Alves has fought 11 consecutive times in the UFC without being stopped, compiled a record of 8-3, and fought the champion to a decision.
BJ Penn: universally regarded as one of the best p4p fighters of all time. In 25 career MMA fights, he’s been “stopped” on two occasions: once was his corner throwing in the towel against GSP, and the other was a TKO to Hughes after he broke his rib and was never actually out or even really dazed. He came back to KO Hughes in 21 seconds in a follow-up fight
by dropkick101 on Jul 21, 2011 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
good points.
that’s what I was saying above. Exceptional competition for sure. No one can say he isn’t a highly skilled and talented fighter. I just wish I could get excited for his fights. When his fights start that’s when I take a piss break and grab another beer. In almost any other fight I dash to the fridge between rounds and run back to not miss a second. I love fights when you never know if it’ll be finished in the next 5 seconds or next 5 minutes. With fitch, it ends at 15 minutes or, god forbid, 25 minutes…plenty of time to even walk to the corner store for some swedish fish and more beer.
by El Pablo Diablo on Jul 22, 2011 1:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I still get excited for it. I think to myself, is this going to be someone that has an answer for his style? Is this going to be the fight where he finally gets the finish? How thoroughly is he going to dominate this guy and further cement himself as the second best welterweight on the planet?
Even without those questions, a lot of his recent fights have actually been exciting. We already talked about the BJ fight, which probably would’ve been given FOTN but for the insanity of Ebersole vs. Lytle. His fight with GSP won FOTN for good reason; while he was thoroughly outclassed in terms of technique, he displayed a level of heart I think can only be topped by Frank Edgar against Maynard in terms of recent fights. The fight with Pierce was an awesome back and forth brawl, as Pierce has a style that matches up well with Fitch. Despite getting dropped and losing the first round, Fitch found a way to overcome adversity and win the thing. And, to a lesser extent, I think his last fight with Alves was exciting based on the fact that there were legit questions as to whether Alves would KO Fitch.
So your point is that Fitch is really a finisher of fights? His opponents defy the laws of physics and could not possibly be knocked out or submitted? OK.
If heavyweight isn't the toughest division in the UFC, then why doesn't someone that can kick their asses move to it? They don’t even have to cut weight!!
Solid reading comprehension skills. How many times did it take you to pass 8th grade English?
While it would of course be nice if he could finish a fight once in a while, the fact is that it’s a lot easier said than done when you’re fighting opponents that have shown to be incredibly difficult to stop. People rag on GSP a bit too about his inability to finish a fight, but most cut him some slack about it based on the quality of his opposition. While Fitch might not always be fighting people with the name value of Shields or Koscheck, the guys he’s going up against are often equally as tough and difficult to finish. And this is evidenced by all the facts I laid out above.
The point is that Fitch gets shit for not stopping these guys, but barely anyone else has been able to stop these guys either. If you combined the records of Penn, Pierce, Saunders, and Paulo Thiago, you’ll find three stoppage losses — and one of those was Penn’s corner stoppage against GSP which doesn’t really count.
by dropkick101 on Jul 22, 2011 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Sorry, but I do not buy the “these guys at welterweight are all impossible to stop” argument. The WW class has quite a few wrestlers at the top of the division that do not finish fights, so it stands to reason that the fighters in that weight class are not being finished. The fact is that we will never know how many fights Fitch would have finished because he never takes a chance to finish a fight. He is content to lay in someone’s guard and throw pretend punches to look busy.
As to your insult… when one resorts to insults, it is usually due to a lack of a coherent counterargument so I will leave it at that.
If heavyweight isn't the toughest division in the UFC, then why doesn't someone that can kick their asses move to it? They don’t even have to cut weight!!
(1) Any insult I made was in direct response to the sarcastic and condescending tone (“His opponents defy the laws of physics and could not possibly be knocked out or submitted? OK.”). And I’m pretty sure that I followed that statement up with a pretty coherent argument, so that statement has no merit.
(2) There’s no argument that the guys at welterweight are “impossible to stop.” My whole statement about your problems with reading comprehension is based on that. Nobody is saying that it’s impossible. The only argument I’m making is that Fitch deserves at least a little slack because his opponents have shown that they are incredibly difficult to stop in comparison to the rest of the UFC roster. I don’t think anyone can reasonably argue otherwise based on the facts.
And the argument that 170 is filled with a bunch of wrestlers who can’t finish fights doesn’t really hold water. Fitch and GSP are the only two that have a long string of decisions. Prior to his recent string of three straight decisions, Shields had EIGHT straight finishes, six in the first round. In Koscheck’s past six victories, he’s earned four stoppages. Now compare that to top fighters in other divisions. In Rampage’s past five wins, he’s gone to the scorecards four times. In Okami’s past six wins, he’s gone to the scorecards four times. Dos Santos, arguably the best striker in the HW division and known for stopping his opponents, has gone to the scorecards in his past two fights.
Point is, the notion that 170 is filled exclusively with wrestlers who can’t finish a fight isn’t exactly right. And even if it was, there are a ton of elite-level fighters in other divisions that go to the scorecards regularly. That’s not a knock on them; that’s just what happens when you’re fighting consistent high quality fighters.
by dropkick101 on Jul 22, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fine, I can see your side on that. All the same, the problem with Fitch isn’t that he doesn’t finish fights. It is that he doesn’t even TRY to finish fights. GSP has a lot of decisions but I often get the feeling that he really wants to finish the fight, but just can’t do it.
My tone was a bit sarcastic and I apoligize for that. I try to be civil on here generally, my bad.
If heavyweight isn't the toughest division in the UFC, then why doesn't someone that can kick their asses move to it? They don’t even have to cut weight!!
Eh, it happens. I’ve done the same before and I was a bit of a dick too, so my bad on that.
And I agree with you on that point. I touched on it it a little bit below, but as a Fitch fan my problem is that he seemingly knows about these criticisms but doesn’t seem to be doing that much to fix it. Hopefully that changes moving forward.
Fitch is...necessary.
A previous fanpost put it best. There must be a Jon Fitch, because:
because Jon Fitch is the kind of fighter that will drive this sport’s athletes to improve themselves and ultimately the sport as a whole. Jon Fitch is a 170 lb. litmus test to truly divorce hype and fan fantasy from reality.
so true.
I missed that post. I hope that his grinding relentless humping will pressure fighters to gain the skill to counter the boredom. I am not in any way against wrestlers, if it works and you are winning, it’s up to the competition to improve in such a way as to allow them to implement their own will on the opposition. Hopefully we will see a cure to this….soon. Until then, fitch will keep on keepin on (winning), and I will keep on keepin on (dozing off during his fights)
by El Pablo Diablo on Jul 22, 2011 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions
I’ve been thinking a lot about Jon Fitch lately
Same. I knock out in 2 minutes flat.
Favorite League of Legends characers:
Amumu
Malphite
Singed
Teemo
Nunu
by Hendo_One-Shot on Jul 22, 2011 12:06 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I like Fitch
I’m not a huge fan of his style, but he is a likeable fighter for his grit and determination. Agree with the suggestion in the article that it might be good for him to incorporate some submissions into his grappling game. He’ll never be dropping back for leg locks, but he could work for arm triangles, kimura/americana from side control and anything else that he can do with out putting himself at a huge positional disadvantage.
I consider myself a softcore fan.
by Thor77 on Jul 22, 2011 10:37 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Let me start off by saying I respect John Fitch. His biggest problem I think is fear. He is so afraid to lose that he gives up the finish.
I know in his heart he thinks he deserves another shot at the title. He has beaten fighter after fighter in order to work his way there. But his style has not changed. And the style that he has, has already been tested against the champ and it failed. The definition of insanity = doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
If John Fitch does not defeat his fear of losing, his career will never reach its full potential. Financially or Achievement wise.
If the fans dont want to watch you fight, then you don’t belong on a ppv that they have to pay for.
Fitch is Sonnen,
without the mouth, and with infinitely better submission defense and theoretically superior submission ability.
He could greatly increase his marketability with some well played verbal gamesmanship, however distasteful he may find it to be, and he actually seems to be showing signs of doing so of late.
As for the general gist of the article (well done, btw), I tend to agree. Fitch has the ability to recover from risk-taking gone awry, and is going to have to learn to trust himself to do so if he wants consistently high profile fights, bigger pay days, an increased fan base and a future title fight.
Try calling someone out – it seems almost without exception that such fights get offered, if not made.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Jul 22, 2011 12:33 PM EDT reply actions
Agreed about the shit talking and the risk taking. The thing about Fitch is, there’s so much potential for the guy to be a star if he can do those two things.
Think about it: he’s been universally considered the #2 welterweight in the world for about three or four years now. For what I can remember, that’s a longer time as the top contender than anyone else ever. And it’s also the longest time at or near the top of any division with the exception of Anderson and GSP. The only other people I can think of who have hovered around the top for that long have been Rashad, Rampage, Forrest, Shields, and Florian. The difference is all of those guys have moved up and down the rankings and have not been consistently at #2.
With such an impressive resume, he could become a marketable fighter over the course of one fight, the same way Chael did. No matter who he fights next — which I’m thinking will be the winner of either Hughes/Sanchez, Shields/Ellenberger, or Macdonald/Pyle — he could go from highly ranked fighter to legit star by talking a little shit before the fight and finally getting a finish. And if he could repeat that formula for his next two fights, then he could definitely do it.
As a fan of Fitch, I think that’s my biggest problem with him. Despite his incredible success, the problem is that he knows his problems and seemingly hasn’t done all that much to fix it. Now, like I said above, it’s incredibly tough to stop the guys he’s been fighting, so he can get a pass there. But the personality is something he can control.
Become a bad guy if you have to, Fitch. Get on the mic after the fighters and talk shit to the fans when they’re booing you. Tell them they have to be stupid if they’re booing the impressive display of MMA skills you just displayed. The boos will get louder, a lot of fans will hate you for it, and for once a lot of people will actually care to see you fight, despite the fact that it’s because they want you to lose. Tito made a career out of it, so has Sonnen, and the formula has worked in pro wrestling for decades.
Well said
I would love to see him talk shit about, and call out the winner of Penn/Condit. Claim BJ was scared to wait for him, and remind everyone Condit already ducked him once.
Beg Dana for 5 rounds to get it done and the promise of the winner of GSP/Diaz if he can finish Penn/Condit.
Call out Diego maybe, or talk shit about Diaz now, to try to get him off a loss or, in the unlikely event he beats GSP, in the title fight.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Jul 22, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
All solid ideas.
I don’t think there’s any way they’ll give him Condit if Condit wins, regardless of how much shit he talks to the fight the winner, but that doesn’t mean he shouldn’t do it just to build hype and interest. If Condit beats Penn, Fitch is getting a title shot, plain and simple. But if Penn wins, I think Penn-Fitch II is definitely a fight the UFC will book, and even moreso if Fitch does his part to hype it.
I also don’t think the UFC will match Fitch up with Diaz if Diaz loses to GSP. Diaz can be a commodity for the UFC even if he loses to GSP, but a subsequent loss to Fitch would damage him too much. In the event Diaz loses to GSP, they’ll give him a slightly more favorable match-up than a wrestler that could hold him down for 15 minutes.
I think the winners of Hughes-Sanchez and Shields-Ellenberger are the most likely candidates for Fitch’s next fight. The only problem with those is timing, as both fights take place in September and Fitch wants to return in October. But considering how quickly the October cards have filled up, he might have to wait until November or December to return, in which case timing wouldn’t be a problem for those fights. If he does get a spot on a card sooner than that, I think the winner of Pyle vs. Macdonald at UFC 133 makes the most sense. Pyle is on a hot streak and has a win over Fitch early in his career, while Macdonald could be the next big thing at 170 and beat Condit for two-and-a-half rounds before being stopped. A dominant win over Macdonald for Fitch would do a lot to cement his status for another shot, based on how much trouble Condit had with him.
*correction in the first paragraph: “If Condit beats Penn, Condit is getting a shot”
by dropkick101 on Jul 22, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Of course
I also think there are several guys who could give Fitch serious problems, all with a fair or better chance of beating him – Shields, Ellenburger, Story, Hendricks, and Rumble, in no particular order.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Jul 22, 2011 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you’re right that those guys would all be good match-ups for him, but I also would bet on Fitch in all of ‘em. The only one I’d have a bit of hesitance in is Shields. At the same time, I think Fitch is better on the feet and wouldn’t be submitted, while the two are probably pretty equal in terms of wrestling.
Shields Fitch would be an awesome match up. I would love to see that. Something would have to give, since they both have similar strengths. I think Shields may have a slight advantage due to his JJ.
If heavyweight isn't the toughest division in the UFC, then why doesn't someone that can kick their asses move to it? They don’t even have to cut weight!!
He does, and I’m pretty sure he actually tapped Fitch a couple years back in a grappling tourney. With that said, I don’t think it’ll help him all that much against Fitch because I don’t think he’ll be able to submit Fitch at this point in Fitch’s career. Not only is Fitch better than he was back when he grappled Shields a couple years back, but Shields couldn’t finish Mayhem or Kampmann — he’s not going to submit Fitch.
Pierce should be on that list
He almost finished Fitch last they fought, and I feel Pierce has improved more then Fitch has since they lost fought
If it was a five round fight then I would bet alot of money on Pierce actually, Pierce just wore down Fitch, even when Fitch was on top, and I would expect Pierce to finish
Good point on Pierce,
forgot about him.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Jul 22, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
I also think you are forgetting
People actually like to watch Chael Sonnen fight. He doesn’t have the strongest GnP, but with the volume of shots he throws if he had half the power of Munoz or Dan Henderson he would have finished every opponent he fights ever. He also gets very good position to throw down some of that, some of the shots he hit Anderson, Yushin Okami, and Marquardt were clearly very powerful even if Chael Sonnen isn’t blessed with great power himself
There is a reason why the UFC telivised his fight with Yushin Okami, and gave him FOTN against Marquardt and Anderson Silva, Fitch is a passive wrestler, Chael is pure aggression
Fitch is more focused on simply controlling and staying busy, true.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Jul 22, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Can someone summarize this nutshell in a nutshell?
Mcloviiiiin!!
by Disco1Stu on Jul 22, 2011 5:05 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Don't hate Fitch.
You’re welcome.
"Rather than love, than money, than faith, than fame, than fairness... give me truth."
Chris McCandless A.K.A. Alexander Supertramp
1968-1992
Great Post!
I’m with you, Fitch is a fantastic fighter that works his ass off. I’m a fan!
Your comments on Condit made me think, his style is basically a modern Bas Rutten.
@rask4p on Twitter
Fitch is not a top-control wrestler
He’s more of an American jiu-jitsu guy like Jake Shields. He doesn’t just get on top of you and try to ride out the decision like lay n pray wrestlers, he puts on a lot of physical pressure and tires you out. These are all jiu-jitsu related tactics— staying tight, compressing the opponent’s chest, creating scrambles when necessary. You don’t see guys who’ve lost to Fitch have that frustrated, Paul Daley vs. Koscheck type attitude where they know they lost the decision but feel they didn’t even get a chance to lose the fight. Fitch’s opponents seem to look and act defeated after they’re dragged through the ringer by him for 15 minutes.
by Trust Doesn't Rust on Jul 24, 2011 1:38 AM EDT reply actions
I would use frustrated, not defeated.
If heavyweight isn't the toughest division in the UFC, then why doesn't someone that can kick their asses move to it? They don’t even have to cut weight!!
Ah I think defeated is fair. While he’s not taking guys heads off like Condit or going home with their limbs like Palhares, he smashes them with elbwos and forearms and punches to the point where by the end of the fight they know exactly who the better man is. To me, that means “defeated.”
by dropkick101 on Jul 24, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Wonderful write up!
John Fitch took risks early in his career and it ended with him being knocked out by Wilson Gouveia. Much like the effect on GSP, after being knocked out by Serra, he learned the value of playing it safe. He realized early on that you cannot risk slugging it out with strikers, unless you want to get knocked out or playing footsies with tree stumps, unless you want your leg amputated, when you can clearly win with what you do best, being a grinder. But unlike GSP, where we saw him fight as ‘RUSH’ before getting KTFO’d by The Terra, we’ve been watching the transformed Fitch right off the bat… and seen none of his risk taking style.
In a nutshell.. I can watch some Fitching by the Fitch.. but not any other ‘fitching’.
Fitch style is prelim at best
The organization is in the business to make money. He has been capitalizing on a huge gap in the rules, which allows his record to continue unblemished with decision after decision. Sit in your opponent’s guard and hold them down for 15 minutes, throwing patsy punches to create the perception you are “working”. That isn’t fighting, that isn’t “boiler plate style”, that isn’t “grinding”—its playing it safe so you don’t lose the fight, you don’t lose your spot as a contender, you don’t lose sponsorships, etc. etc.
I’ll be happy if he continues to be passed over for a title shot and we don’t see him anytime soon. In any organization, exiting due to attrition is far less litigious and best for both parties.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bloody Elbow
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
