What HBO Sports President Ross Greenburg's Rumored Departure Means for Boxing and MMA
In 2007, a major push by HBO to get the UFC on its schedule in an effort to appeal to a younger demographic took a massive hit as then HBO CEO Chris Albrecht was arrested for domestic violence and was forced to resign. At the time the UFC on HBO story had gained huge momentum and UFC president Dana White was constantly giving the impression that the deal was all but done.
Unfortunately, Albrecht was one of the people pushing the idea of embracing MMA while HBO's president of sports, Ross Greenburg, had fought tooth and nail to keep boxing as the only combat sport on the schedule. Prior to the Albrecht firing, Thomas Hauser had been detailing the struggle between Greenburg's vision for the network and the seemingly done UFC deal:
Within the boxing community, HBO warrants closer scrutiny than Showtime because it's the standard-bearer for the sport. Sources at HBO say that Ross Greenburg (president of HBO Sports) opposed the UFC deal as vigorously as possible. He did everything in his power not to televise mixed martial arts. But in the end, he had no choice.
...
During an interview last week, Greenburg declined to comment on the matter beyond acknowledging, "I wouldn't say that I'm a big fan of UFC. But when I started at HBO, I wasn't a big fan of boxing either. I recognize the fact that UFC appeals to a fan base and demographic that boxing doesn't have right now."
With Albrecht out of the picture, Greenburg's opposition to broadcasting UFC events was a big part of the deal heading to the graveyard rather than the planned 3 UFC events airing on HBO in '07.
Today a story ran on Boxing Scene saying that Greenburg will be gone from the position within the week.
I immediately started reaching out to contacts who confirmed the Boxing Scene story, also confirming that the announcement would likely be made on Monday. I was also informed that Senior V.P. of Sports Programming Kery Davis would be gone in the very near future as well. Also in my talks with various sources in and around HBO was talk that production would undergo "big changes."
Under Greenburg and Davis, the product had stagnated and HBO had their share of embarrassing moments. A(n admittedly important) fight between Timothy Bradley and Devon Alexander in February was pushed by HBO with massive investment only to draw horrible ratings and only drawing slightly over 6,000 fans when hoping for somewhere around 15,000. It was a moment of violent disconnect between the network and what interested the casual boxing fan.
An inexplicable desire to bend to the wills of Golden Boy Promotions and boxing manager Al Haymon led to tons of safe fights for big stars and schedule that didn't hold interest at many points to the casual fan.
But there is likely nothing that represented as big of a nail in the coffin of the men in charge as Manny Pacquiao bailing on HBO for Showtime. An uninteresting schedule, money poured into fights like Bradley/Alexander and losing the biggest star in the sport was not a recipe for longevity for the men in these positions.
What does this all mean?
Well, for starters, it means that HBO realizes that it needs a change. The game that they're playing is not working. HBO bragging about 1.5 million viewers tuning in for fights like Andre Berto vs. Victor Ortiz isn't bad, nor is it the sign of a dead sport. But it certainly is a sign that the sport has declined from the Lennox Lewis vs. Vitali Klitschko days of drawing over 7 million viewers on the very same network in 2003.
Given the significant advantage in overall subscribers held by HBO of Showtime, Showtime's ratings for boxing events aren't that far behind. A fact that likely has to do with Showtime's push to get exciting fights and fighters on their air as often as possible while taking chances with new and innovative concepts like the Super Six World Boxing Classic. The Super Six had plenty of problems in execution but it was a risk that you'd never see from an HBO network that had spent years offering up fights like James Kirkland vs. Brian Vera and putting Andre Berto across from Michel Trabant and Miguel Rodriguez.
But the real question to MMA fans is "does the departure of Greenburg represents an opening for the UFC or another MMA promotion to find their way to the HBO airwaves?" Showtime has proven that a synergistic relationship between boxing and mixed martial arts can exist. If HBO still values capturing a new (and younger) audience, MMA should still represent an appealing option.
But what interest would Zuffa have in getting in bed with HBO four years removed from the failed '07 deal?
The UFC continues to negotiate a new deal with Spike TV, a negotiation process that has gone worse than expected for the promotion. Spike countered the recent live UFC on Versus 3 card with a replay of an old UFC Fight Night and managed to best Versus in the ratings. The victory put Spike in a very powerful position. The potential of getting in bed with HBO as well as Versus would provide the UFC with the most valuable thing in these negotiations, viable options other than Spike.
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Nice article. Do you think it would be a step up though for the UFC? If the goal is more mainstream, it’s probably an improvement over Spike, but I’m not sure how much. Also, do you think HBO would give over control to the UFC? Or vise-versa?
I should edit the article to talk about that.
I think that part of these production changes and the new people coming in could be HBO deciding to ease up on the determination to be in charge of production. The UFC clearly knows what they are doing, it’s not like wanting production controls over a fledgling promotion, it’s the guys owning the PPV market…
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 16, 2011 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Interestingly though
UFC really ought to think about training up a new commentary team. Not because Rogan and Goldie need replacing, but Rogan and Goldie aren’t going to be able to do it forever either. If UFC really intends on continually increasing its shows they’re going to need to spread the workload and try out new commentary teams on the smaller shows.
Also because Goldberg is on the same level as Gus Johnson
and Rogan is a massive PR liability waiting to happen once the profile of MMA is raised.
Florian is 35 years old and looked pretty slow his last fight. Knows the intricacies of boxing, muay thai, BJJ, and judo exceptionally well. Randy Couture is retired again and seems to be in the UFC’s good graces again. Jon Anik is a pretty solid guy for play by play. If they have any sense of chemistry whatsoever, that booth would kill any other in MMA and be populated with guys the UFC is for sure willing to work with (No Quadros/Militich, as great as they both are).
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by pdl on Jul 16, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Mayhem Miller is the level best commentating prospect out there. Look at his work with Schiavello and Mezger at DYNAMITE!! 2009. Pure brilliance.
InStrength dot com.
I’ve said this before, but Shawn Williams would be a good pick-up for any promotion out there looking for someone to explain grappling. He does a fantastic job at the Mundials, Pan Ams, and ADCC, and has been doing it for at least a few years now. He’s an old school Renzo black belt that knows all the new school stuff, and has probably spent a lot of time around guys training for mma.
Mike Goldberg is one million times better than Gus Johnson.
Gus Johnson said that Jake Shields was defending a rear naked choke attempt by HOLDING HIS BREATH.
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by Derek Suboticki on Jul 16, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree with pdl
Kenny Florian is probably headed to the broadcast booth to replace Rogan, or even team up with Rogan. I would like to see a three headed announcer team. I like the way the NFL, NBA etc use a sideline reporter. This could be a way too ease in a new member. If not a former fighter, then maybe a good looking lady announcer. It would be interesting to incorporate some locker room interviews, audience interviews, talk with the ref after a controversial stoppage etc. This sport is only in it’s infancy. I’d expect the UFC will evolve into an even better finished product.
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
I have said many times...
… that I’d pay an extra $5 for a PPV channel where Goldberg is muted.
Wouldn't the Zuffa/Showtime relationship
Hinder any talks between HBO and UFC? I mean now that Showtime and Dana are playing nice, wouldn’t it be easier to reach out on that side rather than a new network altogether?
Are HBO and Showtime two flavors of the same thing or is one higher-caliber than the other? Honest question, cause I don’t know.
by cmons on Jul 16, 2011 11:49 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Showtime has closed the gap more and more every year
but HBO is still king, both for boxing and original programming.
by phillyhoosfan on Jul 16, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t really think it would given that HBO and Showtime work with promoters all the time. I.e. Golden Boy fighters can fight wherever. I think the UFC can still do whatever needs to be done with HBO given that the Showtime contract was prior to Zuffa’s purchase. I think they’d gladly work out a deal that benefits the UFC over protecting the Strikeforce deal when Strikeforce probably isn’t going to be around for TOO long.
As for is one more ’high caliber?" HBO has the better public image but Showtime is making big strides. If they can manage to keep the Pacquiao/Marquez fight the gap will close even more. HBO countering that by bringing the UFC into the fold would be an aggressive move.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 16, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Good point Brent
I’d add. A deal with HBO doesn’t automatically mean Strikeforce is folded. I can see Strikeforce staying on Showtime, the UFC on HBO and keeping Strikeforce around as a triple a feeder league. Now, I would be naive if I were to imply that Showtime would promote HBO and vise versa. But, I could see this happening.
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
SHOWTIME:
-Dexter
HBO:
-Entourage, though it is ending and they have destroyed it the last season or two.
-Curb
-True Blood
-Game of Thrones
I’m sure I have missed some from both places, but Showtime seems to still be awaiting the defining show like The Sopranos, which was popular and critically a success. HBO seems to usually have the better quality movies, while Showtime still seems to depend on some “trash” programming. Showtime did a good job of closing the gap a couple of years ago, butt he emergence of True Blood and now Game of Thrones, seems to have again widened the gap. Showtime seems to have a really hard time shaking the stigma of being a second class network, whether it is true or not.
As for the boxing, I think both are suffering with the state of the sport, but again, reputation seems to allow HBO to at least be the perceived leader, though I think (and I may be wrong) that Showtime is the leading statistical boxing network.
Showtime seemed to also jump on a formula
- Take a woman with an unusual feature (selling weed, having cancer, multiple personality disorder).
- See how everyone around them react or wait until the woman reveals her big secret.
by phillyhoosfan on Jul 16, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I loved the last season of entourage. They finally did something with the Vince character. Through the entire series he was always the guy with very little problems and was always on top of his game. The worse condition i have seen him in before the 7th season was when he was fighting for that movie that flopped.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
I've watched all the entourages.
Last season was my least fav.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
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by xFenixKnightx on Jul 16, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
If it wasn't for the DVR that kept recording them
I probably wouldve stopped watching. It’s like they’re running out of ideas. Now the season right before last, I really dug that one.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
Follow me @xFenixKnightx or on Google+ for MMA, Boxing, Tech or Gaming talk.
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 16, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it was like, “So Eric is in a long term relationship, Turtle is sort of useless, Drama is overplayed now, and Vince? Let’s give him a porn star girlfriend and a drug addiction.” I too watched out of habit. I had this whole “C’mon, really?” look on my face the whole season.
Haha, right on the money!
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
Follow me @xFenixKnightx or on Google+ for MMA, Boxing, Tech or Gaming talk.
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 16, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Should have ended Entourage a few seasons ago.
But you’re right, True Blood and Game of Thrones in particular have really taken hold. I also like How to make it in America. It’s a decent little show.
The Wire was one of the best shows ever put on TV
Deadwood being first :)
I’d rather just climb this fridge
Deadwood is the most underated TV drama of all time.
by Piru P on Jul 16, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Convoluted story line, strange character arcs, slight cornyness, obscene usage of the word "cocksucker"
There’s a reason this show got axed
You know Joe, Brandon Vera is considered to be a Heavyweight George St.Pierre because he just comes, comes, and comes again... -Mike Goldberg, UFC 57
Cheick Kongo looks like a cross between Evander Holyfield and pop singer Seal!
Melvin Guilard looks like a little Kevin Randelman!
-Mike "All black people look alike to me" Goldberg, UFC 62/64
If I could -1 you, I would
Consider yourself lucky. Good day sir!
http://www.twitter.com/VonSyndicate
Gah!...True Blood? no no no.
Game Of Thrones
Boardwalk Empire
Treme
Curb……….and that the list
You know Joe, Brandon Vera is considered to be a Heavyweight George St.Pierre because he just comes, comes, and comes again... -Mike Goldberg, UFC 57
Cheick Kongo looks like a cross between Evander Holyfield and pop singer Seal!
Melvin Guilard looks like a little Kevin Randelman!
-Mike "All black people look alike to me" Goldberg, UFC 62/64
You missed Eastbound and Down...hilarious
"that wasn't a very good start to us getting our lives together. i didn't even go to work today."
...ya'll are brutalizing me... ronnie dobbs
i go ham
by notorioushbi on Jul 16, 2011 10:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I really hope this doesn't happen.
Because i really want to drop HBO and maybe Comcast all together.
Yeah, I’d dropped HBO until SBN started asking me to cover occasional boxing events and I had to re-subscribe.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on Jul 16, 2011 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I was reading the other day just how badly Netflix, Hulu, etc have impacted the subscription networks and cable/satellite providers as a whole. Seems to definitely be a rapidly changing industry, but Netflix almost doubling their prices could make another impact the other way.
My Comcast bill is well over $200 per month before any PPV and it just feels like flushing money down the toilet. I’m working towards dropping all but my internet (which i may also drop when 4G hits my hood), and getting all my programming online.
Bundles, schmundles !!!
I pay $16/month
And stream Hulu Plus, Netflix, NBC News and ESPN3 (including MMA Live) through my Xbox.
Love it.
And it seems soon enough I’ll be able to order UFC HD PPV’s through it as well. Can’t wait.
by cmons on Jul 16, 2011 12:14 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
On xbox?
It depends on your ISP.. I have AT&T, which has a partnership with ESPN to provide additional content via ESPN3. So I have an ESPN channel on my Xbox.. or I think that’s how it works.
Official UFC programming, digital cable and Youtube are supposed top be added to Xbox t some point this year.
at least I think that’s how it works.
by cmons on Jul 16, 2011 2:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
If UFC goes to HBO all it means is ill be going over to my Aunt and Uncles house to watch it i only get showtime
I don’t know if a move to premium pay cable would be a good move if they did it better not be for Fight Night and UFC on VS level cards. They are fun and all but wouldn’t make me just have to subscribe to them.
Twitter @MaZZM
http://www.mazzznet.com/
Ideally HBO would provide three to five slots for International shows a year
And the UFC would strike a deal with a USA or FX type network to air the rest of its content
http://unintelligentdefense.blogspot.com
by MattParker117 on Jul 16, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions
After the Klitschko/Haye fight, I had made a post about the future of boxing and the effect the day had on the sport. One of the points or questions I raised was the future of boxing onf HBO and Showtime. I got a bit lambasted for it, but it seems like I may have had a point. If HBO does start to trend away from boxing, how big of an impact could that have on the sport? If HBO or Showtime were to fade out most boxing events in favor of other programing, I’d imagine that would seriously damage not just the coverage of boxing, but the creation and promotion of new talent. Maybe I’m reading too much into this for my own part, but time will tell.
Your name
sounds like a dish served during lunch hours at Denny’s.
"Yes, you're right. I only pick on women, that's why I'm picking on you two jerks right now. YOU HAVE A VAGINA! YOU HAVE A VAGINA! Nice fohawk you HOMO!" -CM Punk
by Fake Emcee on Jul 16, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This is very interesting.
If HBO jumps into the MMA programming pool and the UFC is able to work out a deal, I could see Strikeforce not being folded. Why would Zuffa be so foolish to turn their back on Showtime? The timing of this couldn’t come a better time for Zuffa. The UFC Fight Night on Versus being beaten in the ratings by a replay of UFC Fight Night was a leverage swing towards Spike for negotiations. But, now this could help Zuffa leverage HBO, Spike and G4 for the best deal. Interesting. I really enjoy reading about the business end of MMA.
If Russia attacked Turkey from the rear, Do you think Greece would help?
Forget UFC
I hope HBO either starts or signs an MMA organization. We need more competition imo.
The key is to hit the guy in the jaw really hard before the other guy does it to you.
by FreeLightningLee on Jul 16, 2011 1:14 PM EDT reply actions
If they go on HBO the need to change up the commentary.
At least Rogan. Imagine him on HBO dropping F bombs? HBO brings prestige, Rogan cheapens MMA, at least for me. Him and his damn black Affliction button up shirt.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
Follow me @xFenixKnightx or on Google+ for MMA, Boxing, Tech or Gaming talk.
I dislike both but I realize that Goldy can at least come across as semi professional.
I don’t know how much MMA Kellerman actually knows, but him (a familiar face for HBO vets/MMA noobs) Florian and Goldy would be great. My dream team is Jon Anik as pbp, Kenny and Randy. Just imagine how much better the commentary would be?!!! I mean Anik did a great job on Bellator and hes not a robot like Goldy, and both Florian and Randy are very professional and have real fight experience.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
Follow me @xFenixKnightx or on Google+ for MMA, Boxing, Tech or Gaming talk.
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 16, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Kellerman is a douchebag
Anik and Rogan would be perfect.
Why do people like 3 man booths? Less is more.
Kman is a dbag?
Dbag sensor must be off, didn’t ever get that vibe from him.
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
Follow me @xFenixKnightx or on Google+ for MMA, Boxing, Tech or Gaming talk.
by xFenixKnightx on Jul 16, 2011 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions
For some reason I liked him on Around the Horn
But when he does boxing analyst he makes these twisted analogies and equating boxing divisions to movies and whatnot.
And he and the rest of HBO’s crew have become blatant shills for in-house fighters. That’s why they can make it seem like Devon Alexander won against Lucas Matthysse.
Absolutely not.
Rogan doesn’t cheapen MMA. From a strict analysis viewpoint he’s very good. Only Quadros is comparable but no one wants his face on TV.
Plus,
Joe is pretty good about not cussing on the job. What he says on his podcast and in his comedy routines really don’t have much to do with the UFC’s professionalism IMO.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 16, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
Rogan is fine, even good, and he is part of the brand, part of the UFC experience.
Gota keep Goldie too, ‘cause who couldn’t use a little more Pro Baxing in their life.
by hardlyworking on Jul 16, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem with both HBO and UFC joining forces...
is both would have to change their respective business models to make it work.
From HBO’s perspective, they would not have any content for their lucrative HBO PPV arm as UFC handles their own PPV production. So any programming they purchase would be in the hopes they can either attain new subscribers or retain the ones they have. The UFC might be too expensive for that.
As for the UFC, HBO would rightly demand cards of a quality about Fight Night caliber. While a card headlined by Diaz vs. GSP would likely remain a PPV event, a card headlined by Davis Ortiz vs. Evans would be a target for HBO, lessening the amount of PPVs UFC can offer.
Some back of the napkin calculations estimate the UFC grosses $7.5m from an average PPV (assuming 300k buys x $50 / 2 for the cut the cable networks get). Is six events in a year (and not the premiere events) worth $45m to HBO? Does the UFC want to fully change their business model for the regular cash stream of going to a partly right fee model?
Of course Time Warner could sweeten the pot by taking TUF and Fight Night events to TNT, which already has a sports presence. And they could still keep a level of flexibility by continuing a relationship with NBC/Comcast through Versus (which is actually where I think ultimately the UFC will end up).
As cool and classy as it would be
to have UFC on HBO and/ or ESPN, I would much rather see it on terrestrial network TV. I really think they need to move away from the PPV model as much as possible, only putting the actual mega- cards on PPV. Maybe the whole NBC & NBC Sports thing will go through, and Zuffa can get in bed with them, that’d be ideal.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
I'd love to see the UFC on NBC or ABC
But all it would be is Versus shows transferred to NBC.
As much as he talks about “big fights”, I think Dana White has no interest in taking title fights and putting them on free TV.
Well,
I don’t expect Zuffa to pull out of the PPV model while they’re raking in so much dough, but I think the gravy train has about run it’s course.
IMO they should put all the cards except for the stacked title events on “free” TV.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 16, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Live sports are big money these days for Networks and advertisers
If someone offers the UFC enough money, they will have no problem putting title fights on free TV. The TV industry is snapping up as many sports properties as they can because it is currently the one thing they can bank on bringing in the advertising money at a consistent rate. Scripted shows have been taking a hit due to DVR, Hulu, Netflix and so on.
The problem is, like someone else said earlier, it would take a shift in their business model. They have to offer big fights to get the eyeballs necessary to make the money work. I’m not sure if they are at that point, yet, but I could see them doing a 4 event deal (1 each quarter) with a network soon. Especially, if they follow through with the flyweight division. They would certainly have enough titles and talent to stock each card at least as well as UFC 133.
In a universe where Charlie Sheen was pulling down $2.5 M an episode for 30 minutes 1x a week
I’d say a rights fee for 2 hours of UFC 1X a month or so might look attractive if the ratings can justify it. UFC will never, ever do TAAHM ratings, but it it be cost effect for NBC? Maybe. WWF was, yes?
"Complacency is your demise." - Kerry King
Crazy part about that
is that 2.5 Men is one of the most unoriginal, shitty shows i’ve ever seen.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 16, 2011 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions
YAMMA was alot of things
but how DARE you ever insinuate that it was, in any way, unoriginal. The YAMMA Pit is the greatest innovation our sport has seen since Gracie Jiu Jitsu
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on Jul 16, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Actually its not "other" than the UFC
At least under the current Spike deal. Under the status quo the UFC can also have a deal with a premium cable channel, provided they still meet their contractual obligations to Spike (so many “fight nights” etc)
Personally I think a general shift to a premium cable channel like HBO and Showtime, with more free* shows and scaling down to about 10 ppvs a year is the ideal business model for the UFC.

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