UFC's Dana White Talks Marquardt, TRT and Chael Sonnen
by Nate Wilcox on Jul 1, 2011 12:14 PM EDT
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UFC President Dana White is known for not pulling his punches. He immediately fired Nate Marquardt after Nate failed to be medically cleared to fight by the Pennsylvania State Athletic Commission. White spoke to MMA Fighting about the decision (transcription via MMA Torch):
"No I will not [bring him back]," he reiterated. "This is a tough thing for me to talk about. It's tough to talk about stuff like this when you can't talk about it. The way I look at it, you know he already tested positive for steroids once. Then he has this issue in New Jersey, and now this issue here going into [Pittsburgh]. It's an issue. People are like 'give him a second chance.' This would be a fourth chance.
"Do I think he was trying to cheat? Let's put it this way, he was either trying to cheat, or he has a horrible doctor," White said. "You tell me, which one is it, I don't know. This is one of those things where I can't talk about this guy's medical records but it's pretty clear what this is.
"Nate Marquardt's a really nice guy," White said. "He's sweet, he's polite, he's very humble. But it is what it is. Like I said to the media earlier, it's a lot easier to go after Josh Barnett. He's abrasive and rude, and he's a d***. It's easier to point at Josh Barnett and go, 'ugh, Josh Barnett.' What's the difference? The difference is Nate Marquardt is really nice, and a real humble and sweet guy."
"I'm no doctor but this whole testosterone replacement therapy I guess is basically for guys who get to a certain age, which is normally supposed to be in your 40s, or even 50s where your testosterone levels start to drop so they give you just a little bit to keep a young man's level," White said. "These guys who used steroids before have trouble producing testosterone so they have to bump their levels up. But when your levels get bumped above what it normally should be, that's performance enhancing, as far as I'm concerned and I'm sure as far as many athletic commissions are concerned.
"It's an ugly loophole. I think there [are] guys that need to do it because they have to, but then there [are] guys doing it because you can do it, because you can say 'I'm in here for testosterone replacement.' If you're a professional athlete, you should be going to a credible doctor who says 'yes you need this thing because your testosterone is low and we're going to give you [a small amount] to boost you up to the right levels' and when you do your blood tests your levels should be what a normal guy's levels should be.
"Chael Sonnen, I think a lot of people want to see Sonnen fight," he said. "This guy made some bad choices, made some mistakes, has paid his dues and now he gets to come back and hopefully do things smarter this time."
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Somebody more educated, please correct me here...
but I was thinking. Abusing steroids often throws off your bodies natural hormone production, for instance abuse could lead to a lack of testosterone production. So couldn’t the TRT excuse also be a sign of prior abuse that has messed that natural production up?
Or maybe it was the balance of estrogen and testosterone, honestly I can’t remember the specifics, but if someone knows, please feel free to elaborate.
no expert at all, but that seems quite logical.
abuse steroids and it fuck w/ your hormones, which in turn leads to levels of estrogen and testosterone getting a bit jacked up. use a regulated form of TRT to fixe what you fucked up before so your levels can be normal again.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Jul 1, 2011 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions
yes exactly
Keith Kizer has an interview where they talk about the testing that Nevada will start doing to preclude athletes who shot their natural hormone balance by abusing steroids from getting the TUE to do TRT.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
There's more in that article
He says there are things to test that can tell you if steroid abuse is the cause of the declining levels or something else is.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions
you're exactly correct, and therein lies the huge problem with TRT
'I don't make my living by making my living. My time is so important that I can't compromise my taste- or my idea of what's right- simply to match someone else's view of what's a good, calculated move"- Robert Plant
by Austin Martin on Jul 1, 2011 12:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
if you do it wrong, yes
if you abuse them and go off cold turkey, your own stuff may not come back on
that is way the bodybuilders and powerliftings and non idiots that use you post cycle drugs to make sure everything comes back on.
Or never cycle off. one of the two.
Yes
Steroids are testosterone mimics. The addition of testosterone tends to decrease the body’s own production of the hormone. Taking steroids will tend to reduce the body’s own production of testosterone. This can result in things like shrunken testes (because steroids don’t always completely replace the function of testosterone).
The reason why people take steroids is that they produce many of the performance-enhancing effects of testosterone. Taking testosterone to enhance performance isn’t much different from taking steroids to do the same.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jul 1, 2011 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I know
I’m just trying to speak in simple terms so that everyone can be on the same page.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jul 1, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
so, Sonnen is safe because this was only his first offense right?
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
No,
Chael is safe because it wasn’t because his levels were too high it was not properly getting an exemption for TRT from the nevada state athletic commission. Had he gone through proper channels we would not have even heard about it.
Nate is a 4 time abuser in Dana’s eyes, also it boils down to dana’s last statement:
“Chael Sonnen, I think a lot of people want to see Sonnen fight,”
I am vorn the unspeakable the skulls of those who defy me bleach in the suns of hundreds of worlds...... and you are
Not defending either guy
But every time I see this, am I the only one who thinks,
based on their past performances, I would much rather see Nate fight than Sonnen?
Is everyone just thinking about the Silva fight? Because Sonnen was greatly Fitched by most fans prior to this. Or is it just because we know he could be fighting Mother Theresa ans still talk shit?
What is boils down to is this
Nate is supposed to be this nice guy but he says that
Oh I don’t use steroids it was this supplement i bought,
Oh I don’t abuse TRT it was my DR. who thought I needed Enhanced Doses via Injection rather than the standard Pill two weeks before Fight Night,
Oh that same Dr. Also gave me elevated Levels during my Jim Miller fight and told me to Swear to the NJSACB that they would go down after the fight BUT THEY DIDN’T.
Chael messed up this one time and was a marketing gold mine for the Silva fight, he gets one shot to right this ship or he is just as F’d (presumably)
I am vorn the unspeakable the skulls of those who defy me bleach in the suns of hundreds of worlds...... and you are
Yes, I get that.
My questioning is about the quote from Dana that people want to see Sonnen fight. Am I missing something? When did Sonnen become an exciting fighter that people are clammoring to see. For the most part Nate has been an entertaining fighter inside the cage and Sonnen hasn’t. Outside the octagon, it is the opposite, so I’m assuming this is what he is referring to?
To You but....
Chael brought a lot of new eye balls to MMA when he was shows like Jim Rome is Burning and ESPN also on every big sports website with his antics. You are an MMA fan and you appreciate in what in your opinion is the Better fighter but to the casual sports fan Chael is a revelation that caught their interest in the sport. When he gets booked for a fight and the global Mic is on him again plus his return from “PED Suspension” trust me you will see him everywhere.
I am vorn the unspeakable the skulls of those who defy me bleach in the suns of hundreds of worlds...... and you are
I think its more that people wanna see him get his ass kicked than want to see him get takedowns and stay in the guard and eventually get triangle/armbar’d.
He’s constantly running his mouth to anyone and everyone he can or makes a comment about him and that makes some people wanna see him fight again. Because right now he is a “twitter fighter” as Wanderlei has said.
I’d rather see Marquardt fight too. He was getting really good at hitting the kill switch. He actually reminded me of Anderson or Lyoto a little bit, the way he’d jump on openings.
Sonnen is fun to watch because he ALWAYS gets caught in a submission or near-submission, in every fucking fight. So he’s got that going for him.
Exactly
Sonnen’s problem was that he got caught using TRT at all. Nate’s problem was that he was caught using doses that were beyond therapeutic and in the range of performance-enhancing.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jul 1, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
For the love of god
Sonnen’s levels were absolutely too high. A 16.9:1 T:E is WAY too high and way beyond anything a real doctor would prescribe. While that’s not measuring the raw testosterone level, it’s basically impossible for him to claim he was in the normal T range. Unless you believe his epi level was at 50 ng/dl and he would be on the verge of death, then he was above 800 ng/dl of test. In reality he was probably at least 200 ng/dl of epi (which is still quite low), which puts him square in the middle of a hardcore test cycle.
The difference between Marquardt and Sonnen is that DW thinks Sonnen can make him enough money to put up with the steroid hassle.
Not afraid to nitpick
Yes, that's right
That’s why Dana said hopefully he’ll do things smarter this time around. Nate was a fairly popular fighter too, but he has been given chance after chance. Obviously he’s not going to stop trying to cheat with drugs. Hopefully Sonnen learned his lesson and will come back drug free. I can only hope we’ll see him slower and weaker. I’d love to see him get his butt handed to him like Carwin did.
Did you see how slow Carwin was against JDS now that he has stopped taking roids. The media largely ignored it for for some reason, but before his last fight Carwin’s name was linked to an old steroid ring. He probably had been using for years and had to finally stop given all the attention the law was giving him. So dropping the roids is probably what made him drop the weight. That whole diet thing was just a way to make it less obvious. I used to root for Carwin, but I was glad to see him look slow and get beat up by JDS. He did land his once unstoppable punches a couple times, but they didn’t even phase JDS for a second. I now believe his dominating performances in the past were due in large part to his pharmacist, not his training nor his natural talent.
I say it’s unfair to look at Carwins comeback-performance and point to roids. Ring rust has proven to be a bitch for many fighters. Was Rampage coming off the roids when he fought Rashad? Was Shogun recovering from Roid-therapy? Plus: who doesn’ look sluggish against Junior, especially after a beatdown like the one Carwin got in Rd. 1?
If he continues to show reduced performance, this will be a point that can be speculated upon. Now, I think: too soon.
"A belt only covers two inches of your ****and the rest you need to back up on your own." Royce Gracie (allegedly...I just read it somewhere and thought it was cool for my sig!)
“Chael Sonnen, I think a lot of people want to see Sonnen fight,” he said. “This guy made some bad choices, made some mistakes, has paid his dues and now he gets to come back and hopefully do things smarter this time.”
So the difference between Steroid Cheater A and Steroid Cheater B is that people want to see Steroid Cheater B fight?
to be fair
Chael has only been caught once, Nate’s been nicked a few more times.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Jul 1, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
actually
To my knowledge it was one other time, and the NSAC declined to fine him and lifted his suspension after follow up tests came up negative.
I’m not saying he’s guilty or not, just that it isn’t cut and dried. Marquardt isn’t Barnett.
well he messed up
in NV, NJ and PA. That’s what Dana means by 4th chance.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
the NV one was
an over the counter supplement containing banned substances. NJ & PA were both TRT related.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
i am really confused on the NJ situation. how was he able to fight? and because he was able to is that really screwing up?
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Jul 1, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
they elected to give him a chance
since he came to them about the TRT and complied with their process. It was their follow up test that popped him for the elevated levels.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
was he then punished for have levels above normal or was this swept under the rug till now? i honestly don’t recall hearing about this.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Jul 1, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
the follow up test administered by NJ
was on June 18th. It’s the reason PA wouldn’t let Nate fight.
NJ did the right thing.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
oh. i didn't get that.
So we can assume that chael has also been taking follow-up tests?
by Gideon Jay on Jul 1, 2011 1:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
in order in fight in NJ you have to give the NJSAC permission to test you up to two times before the fight and up to two times after the fight.
Nate was caught by a surprise post test administered by the NJSAC.
I don’t know about chael’s specific situation though.
The NJSAC seemed to be caught by surprise by Nate's TRT
His fight status was conditional on him demonstrating that the TRT was therapeutically necessary. That’s why the additional tests were requested.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jul 1, 2011 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Let’s not forget that at UFC 122 the UFC itself was responsible for testing. So maybe Dana knows some results from that event we are not aware of.
"A belt only covers two inches of your ****and the rest you need to back up on your own." Royce Gracie (allegedly...I just read it somewhere and thought it was cool for my sig!)
It should be, "People like hearing Sonnen talk".
I don’t but apparently a lot of people do. It’s a joke but whatever.
No you're taking what he said wrong.
He wasn’t saying that about the PEDs he was just saying “People want to see him fight and he will get his 2nd chance” just like he gives everyone. He was just throwing the “People want to see him fight” in there had nothing to do with the actual PEDs just a throw away line he added in while talking.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
The difference is
Chael failed after the oney was made. After all the hype behind the fight was paid for by the fight actually happening. Dana was in a tough spot. What could he have done?? The main event suddenly cancelled because of alleged steroid use (thats how the general public would see it) and the UFC stands behind it? Dana Whiyte and the UFC were put into an impossible position.
In a nutshell, Nate was popped due to an over the counter supplement a while ago that wasn’t allowed (that he didn’t realize), and then later because his TRT was mis-applied by his doctor, as well the New Jersey commission didn’t like something, but didn’t dislike it enough to not let him fight.
Chael blatantly cheated, lied profusely about it while implicating the Nevada athletic commissioner (the most important of all of them), but he should get another chance.
Both guys used here, so let’s be honest about that, but Dana sees the world through a truly warped and self-delusioned lens.
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
by Dooda on Jul 1, 2011 12:28 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
yeah that seems right
i rescind my earlier statements. this really is “Dana’s dollar and nonsense”
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Jul 1, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Nate was taking over the counter supplements
that said “do not use this product if you are going to be tested for anabolic steroids” right on the label.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Exactly
But let’s not pretend that Chael’s ability to market himself isn’t what makes the difference here. If Nate can find some miraculous way to become a major draw despite the Zuffa oligopoly, then he’ll be back too.
I don't think so.
I think Dana has given Nate all the chances he’s going to give him. Now I wouldn’t be surprised if down the road he gives him another shot but I think he’s done.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
No I'm saying I don't think he will be back but
I wouldn’t be completely shocked if Dana let him back if the circumstances are right. Understand now?
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
It wasn't attitude is was a real question.
just asking if you got what i meant or not.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
Fair enough...hard to tell in writing sometimes
i still don’t see where we disagree…unless you think that profitability would not be the determining factor.
I just re-read your first post and I did disagree then agree with you.
I guess I read it wrong the first time I thought you were saying He will be back for sure. Reading comprehension fail. And yes I believe money would be the determining factor. I just kind of got the feeling Dana is pissed off on another level than he usually is when he says “He will never fight in the UFC again”
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
I appreciate that
thought I was crazy for a second there…which I am, but that’s beside the point. I said “miraculous” for a reason, because I don’t really see a viable way he can get the cache to force Dana’s hand.
As to Dana’s level of ire, it always looks about the same to me.
Are you being sarcastic or is this for real? What was the product name?
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
don’t know the name, but here’s nate discussing it on the mma hour the other day
So, in 2005, uh, I, uh, I had a nandrolone metabolite, basically I took an over-the-counter supplement, at the time it was OTC, that was not illegal but it was a banned substance, I didn’t realize that
He’s not hiding behind a “tainted” supplement defense, he admits he took something that was banned. The fact that he was able to buy it in GNC isn’t relevant.
yeah...
I’m trying to hind behind a theory that Dana is evolving and the code of conduct is developing and forming every day. But then there’s everything you said, lol.
every year/month I think to myself, this is the year/month that Dana recognizes that the next level of growth of the sport is directly related to his actions and that this time he will start to act just a bit more professional and consistent……I feel I will continue to be disappointed for a long time.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Jul 1, 2011 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Yeah, I’m cool with the UFC, and all the best fighters being under one fighter and everything, but it would be friggin nice of Dana to have some kind of consistancy behind his actions that are more profound than “whatever the fuck seems right to me at this very moment in time”.
Sometimes it’s right on the money, and sometimes it’s just completely off-base.
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
by Dooda on Jul 1, 2011 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
agreed. i’m gonna sound a little bit like a dick here, but i don’t care if the sport grows anymore then it currently is. i’m afraid that it might become a bit over-regulated and “safe” because of it.
it just seems to me that if this sport were to grow and expand into mainstream sports media and not fringe level recognition that it probably starts w/ Dana acting a bit more level.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Jul 1, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
yep its all dana's fault
everything is, dont blame the fighters blame dana. fighter takes steriods and then cheats with trt, it must be dana’s fault. fighter belts his wife and gets sacked, its dana’s fault.
no…it isn’t. nor did i say it was. he should fire Rodgers and Nate. actually he should fire Leben and Chael as well as not let Barnett in the UFC.
what i said was, and i think most people agree, is that Dana is massively inconsistent when it comes to making these types of decisions and a bit clumsy in his professionalism, or lack thereof.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Jul 1, 2011 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana’s made tons of dick moves- but this isn’t one of them. All sports have strangely idiosyncratic disciplinary measures at times- and it’s always based on their bottom line. The UFC is not unique in this.
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"Do you lie awake alone at night, admiring my gash?"
-Lord Varys
by John Danaher's Hair on Jul 1, 2011 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions
i'm not saying it was a dick move
i’m saying he’s inconsistent.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Jul 1, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions
well...
that’s a completely un-debatable point, I guess that I’m respectfully disagreeing with the idea that this kind of action will hinder the sports growth in any way. You know what will hinder the sports growth? Dudes getting popped for PED’s the day before network t.v. cards. I’m sure that NBC was thrilled with that development last weekend…
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"Do you lie awake alone at night, admiring my gash?"
-Lord Varys
by John Danaher's Hair on Jul 1, 2011 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions
you are right. him firing Nate is not going to hinder the sports growth. fighters getting popped sucks for all. us, the UFC, the sports growth etc. i think we basically agree w/ each other. my referencing Dana’s inconsistencies more or less relates to some of his other actions/behaviors.
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on Jul 1, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
/touches gloves
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"Do you lie awake alone at night, admiring my gash?"
-Lord Varys
by John Danaher's Hair on Jul 1, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
I dont know if you've been keeping up BUT
If it isn’t him taking a strong stance against something F’d up his fighters have been doing Dana has been extremely LOW key lately. He is so busy making this thing bigger that he doesn’t have time to be the show as he was before. I think as things grow we will see less and less of Dana out in front.
Don’t blame Dana he is doing what is right mostly versus what is profitable. He is sacking guys who know there isn’t much life outside of the UFC. Hopefully that sends a strong message to do the right thing.
I am vorn the unspeakable the skulls of those who defy me bleach in the suns of hundreds of worlds...... and you are
Perhaps
Dana needs to hire a person that is in charge of their policies and enforcement thereof? This would take the lightning rod away from him and also add another voice to the decisions. I know some of the other major sports have this and I dont think it would be a bad idea.
by BJJDenver on Jul 1, 2011 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
He does make snap decisions in a vaccuume BUT
Lorenzo is the final say. That is how some of these guys are allowed back in.
I am vorn the unspeakable the skulls of those who defy me bleach in the suns of hundreds of worlds...... and you are
I agree
He is two face, he acts nice up front but is abusing and cheating behind the scenes. He even problably did grease his legs against Toquino.
I am vorn the unspeakable the skulls of those who defy me bleach in the suns of hundreds of worlds...... and you are
I agree
They may already have someone keeping track of this stuff, but if they don’t they need one. Dana claims to not have known anything until the whole thing blew up.
Also, having someone making sure that descipline is meted out consistently and strictly would help.
You are basing this statement over the fact that you BELIEVE nate's statements.
This is what Dana means by the following:
“Nate Marquardt’s a really nice guy,” White said. "He’s sweet, he’s polite, he’s very humble
You buy his statements, i may have not been an over the counter supplement because the same thing shows in steroids. He claims that the blame falls on the supplement and the DR. when he could just be an abuser. Dana doesn’t buy his excuses when these sort of things keep happening to one guy. Dana cites Josh because he is abrasive and outspoken so you know where you stand with him versus Nate who is good up front but a “Cheater” behind the scenes.
I am vorn the unspeakable the skulls of those who defy me bleach in the suns of hundreds of worlds...... and you are
by Roman727 on Jul 1, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
THIS
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"Do you lie awake alone at night, admiring my gash?"
-Lord Varys
by John Danaher's Hair on Jul 1, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You’re taking Nate’s words at face value for every transgression that he’s already committed… he’s already been caught lying about the relationship of the NJ issue and the PA issue. Also, you’re leaving a huge piece out of your reasoning- Nate’s mistake in this case basically submarined a free card during a period in which the UFC is negotiating t.v. deals. Chael’s fuck up did not have such a tangible affect on a crucial period for the organization. If he had won the belt, then gone through the shit he did after having his 1st defense booked, you can bet that the UFC’s response would have been different.
Why should a company use your moral compass in disciplinary actions? They’re going to do what’s best for them- just like every other company in the world. Dana has plenty of faults and has committed tons of transgressions, but this isn’t one of them. Not even a little bit.
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"Do you lie awake alone at night, admiring my gash?"
-Lord Varys
by John Danaher's Hair on Jul 1, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions
So you believe the same excuse everyone uses "It was a supplement and I didn't know"?
What the NJAC didn’t like was the fact that Nate took so much T his levels were above the allowed amount. They let him fight because he was in the process of taking care of the TRT exemption and he didn’t fail the test until a while after his fight meaning he cycled properly and when he got tested during TRAINING CAMP he pissed hot because he was CHEATING. So lets take a look at the facts here 1) He failed a test for the salaverry fight Strike 1, 2) He failed a test for the NJAC after they gave him the chance to fight while he took care of his exemption Strike 2, 3) He tried and fail to properly cycle off T before the Story fight Steeerrriiiikkkke 3 YOU ARE OUT. How can you honestly believe the garbage Nate is trying to sell you? He got a random test from the NJ AC while training for the Versus show and failed because he was abusing T and using it to help him train he took his 3 days to come up with the story that the doctor just happened to go with an aggressive treatment right before his test. First it’s a bad supplements fault then it’s a Doctors fault come on man use your head he’s lying. This is not Dana’s fault Chael failed 1 test and lied just like everyone does when they get caught (see above) now he’s getting his 2nd chance just like Dana gives everyone else. I know Dana is Satan in a t-shirt and jean but he did nothing but what he should have done. So blame the right person here and that is the cheater Nate Marquardt!
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
by 40 Cal. on Jul 1, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I never said he’s not lying, or that he never cheated, but still, when you compare him to Chael, and the resulting edict by Dana, there’s a problem there.
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
He can't see past his Dana is the wrong no matter what mentality to
Understand the facts that it wasn’t Nate’s first foray into PED’s and Chael is just getting the 2nd chance Dana gives to everyone. How many times has Dana said “People mess up and I believe in 2nd chances”?
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
You’re wrong there man. Look at my comment history, I’m not the guy that feels Dana is wrong no matter what. I confess to being a Nate fan though, and claiming that it doesn’t colour my decision wouldn’t be truthful.
On a side note, it’s pretty sad that one can’t state an opinion without being categorically labelled as a Dana Hater, or that I feel that Dana is always wrong no matter what. I don’t feel that way at all.
Despite that they’re both cheaters, and that Chael is a first time offender, when you compare the stories, it just doesn’t seem right. Nate was open with the UFC about what was going on the whole time, Chael was a beligerent and unrepentent cheater, who also continued to lie to authorities afterwards. I don’t even consider Dana wrong necessarily, but from my view, I dunno, I don’t like it. Let him serve his suspension and then let him come back and fight once he’s figured it all out.
my band
http://www.groggybikini.com
Damn...
let’s just hope this doesn’t spiral out of control like the MLB situation. And by that I mean involving Congress, who apparently has a LOT of free time on their hands. Not to be political, but maybe they should stick to twit-picing porn stars and hiding in airport bathroom stalls.
do you realize...
how far away we are from that happening here?
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"Do you lie awake alone at night, admiring my gash?"
-Lord Varys
by John Danaher's Hair on Jul 1, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana is using some pretty weak reasoning here
First of all, AFAICS, the NJ issue and PA issue are the same thing.
Secondly, if Nate was trying to cheat, he wouldn’t be giving full disclosure this way and do repeated blood tests. According to him, he was even at legal levels by fight night.
Finally, Chael is the one who barely talked to the commissions about his use, didn’t even try following the right procedure, and intentionally jacked up his levels for fight night (which is illegal even if you do have a TUE).
sorry but
nate has now cheated twice. when he recieved the injections from his doctor he knew it was wrong. by going on a agressive treatment this meant having ridiculous levels of testosterone in his system while trainning. ie superloading, this is cheating this is ped’s and nate knew that.
When Nate is trying to keep his weight down for his first fight at 170, the last thing he needs to do is superload himself with anabolic steroids. I don’t know how you can call it cheating when he didn’t even fight and told all the authorities about it.
If he was trying to cheat then he wouldn’t be doing all these tests and would probably have got away with it. Maybe he was naive in trusting his doctor, but injections do not automatically mean superloading. They just speed up the absorption into his system, just like IV rehydrating is faster than drinking water.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Testosterone also helps to reduce fat
Ladies who want to become dudes who take testosterone experience a significant drop in their body fat %.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jul 1, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Not in two weeks, especially when he already has minimal fat (and was always this way, even at 185). I’m pretty sure that there are better drugs out there to reduce fat.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
There are many effects of testosterone
including increased recovery and reduction in body fat %. No one is saying he’s using TRT purely for weight loss.
by Greetings from the Lord Humongous! on Jul 1, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Testosterone is an anabolic. If you have 30% bodyfat, sure, it can help you lose weight. If you have 5% bodyfat, though, it is going to make you gain weight.
Add in the risks of trying to get your levels down for the prefight tests, and there’s really no reason any fighter should intentionally juice up beyond natural levels a week before a fight. I don’t even know of any solid evidence of faster recovery, either, and that just seems like a myth to me.
I think it’s more plausible that the injections weren’t meant to raise his levels beyond the legal limit, and were just used over pills to get the effects sooner.
by paythefighters on Jul 2, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
He didn't tell the authorities he tried to get a TUE in NJ
He was on indefinite suspension from them anyways so they informed PA of the situation when he failed his random drop.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
Are you implying that he tried to hide info from the PSAC? If that was true, then why on earth would they be on the verge of giving him a license?
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not implying anything didn't NJAC tell the PSAC of the situation before Nate said anything?
That’s my understanding from what I read. And as far as the license I’m starting to believe the ACs don’t care about PEDs as long as the fighters aren’t failing the pre-fight and post-fight tests. They pretty much helped Nate cycle off by giving him notice and extra tests to see where his levels were.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
I don’t think so. The PSAC was talking about this being a six-week old issue, not something that just came up after the failed test a few days before the fight. I assume he told everybody that he would be going back on HRT after being off 8-weeks for the NJ eligibility test.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Nate left out the part...
about him failing one of the last NJ tests and that it was NJ who notified PA of his non-compliance. Nate said that he’d satisfied all of the NJ requirements, which was not true, so don’t mention Chael’s dishonesty (which sucked as well) without mentioning Nate’s.
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"Do you lie awake alone at night, admiring my gash?"
-Lord Varys
by John Danaher's Hair on Jul 1, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Not sure how that's contrary to anything I said
That last test, AFAIK, is the NJ issue and the PA issue, and I thought Nate told everyone about that last treatment and his levels being high after. Or are you talking about something else?
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
You said that Nate offered full disclosure- when already we have evidence of him lying in the interview with Ariel. Unless you meant full disclosure with the commissions- which is also debatable. The whole trajectory is just sketchy- TRT is only supposed to renew levels to avg.- yet we now know that he was high before TWO fights (NJ & PA) and after one (NJ)… Nate screwed up terribly- at best, he was completely irresponsible and negligent, at worst he was cheating.
Also, getting his levels down to normal by fight night doesn’t matter- how many guys come into fight night weighing at the legal maximum per division? It’s what you come in at on weigh-in day, and Nate couldn’t even do that right. Who agrees to go from pills to straight testosterone injections 3 fucking weeks before a huge fight? It’s baffling!
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"Do you lie awake alone at night, admiring my gash?"
-Lord Varys
by John Danaher's Hair on Jul 1, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I must be missing something
This is what I’m going off of:
http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/6/30/2252230/nate-marquardt-ufc-on-versus-4-mma-news-saga-timeline
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
so tell me- when did Nate admit to this:
June 18, 2011: New Jersey requests another blood test from Marquardt. New Jersey protocol requires two tests before and after approval for a fight. This test fails for being, quoting Meltzer, “more than double normal males of his age group, which would have been due to his just receiving a testosterone shot.” New Jersey denies Marquardt’s TUE application, and sends that information to Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania tells Marquardt to get under the limit, or they will not license him to fight.
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"Do you lie awake alone at night, admiring my gash?"
-Lord Varys
by John Danaher's Hair on Jul 1, 2011 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I still don't get or like this whole "Get under the limit" shit.
It’s basically giving fighters the ok to cycle off PEDs as long as they come into the fight under it doesn’t matter what they do in training camp. Do you see it like that to?
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
both athletic comissions have been getting criticism for their action
the athletic comissions seem too lenient and trusting.
In the PSAC’s case, they seemed to trust Nate when he said it was a mistake by his doctor. So, they said he could fight if his levels were low enough.
It seems kinda sketchy in my view.
totally
“We know you’re levels are clearly high, but we’re giving you heads up so that you can get it to acceptable levels when we test for real…” total bullshit. I think that the 2nd biggest loser in the whole Nate-gate is the NJSAC.
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"Do you lie awake alone at night, admiring my gash?"
-Lord Varys
by John Danaher's Hair on Jul 1, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
It's apparent
that this is all about giving the commissions and the promoters enough to claim plausible deniability when shit hits the fan.
It's a matter of opinion
I’m with Subo on this one. As long as you aren’t enhancing your biology in any way on fight night, then what you do in training is up to you.
Taking antihistamines to reduce allergies helps you train. Ibuprofen to reduce headaches or body aches helps you train. Optional surgery over natural healing helps you train. Protein supplements help you train in ways natural food couldn’t. So I don’t care about benefits during training.
As for strength gains from anabolics, they come from muscle growth, not some magical muscle modification. MMA has weight classes. If you gain muscle, you have to face guys with more muscle and will probably have cardio issues if you gain it rapidly from anabolics.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
That's great and all
but it’s irrelevant unless the rules are changed.
Not really
The rules right now are that you just need to pass during the fight.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
then why did NJ...
tell him to stop taking testosterone for 8 weeks prior to the Miller fight?
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"Do you lie awake alone at night, admiring my gash?"
-Lord Varys
by John Danaher's Hair on Jul 1, 2011 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions
To establish candidacy for HRT
They wanted to see that his level was truly low, and from the Kizer interview, probably also trying to find out whether that low was due steroid abuse.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Two outliers off the top of my head
Kimo and Barnett both got popped prior to their fights with Bas and Fedor, respectively.
that's so silly
so if one guy can get more training periods at a higher level in- they’re not better prepared? In a sport in which every fighter deals with some kind of injury during grinding camps, banned drugs that allow someone to recover unnaturally fast isn’t an advantage?
Look-if you want to get into the philosophical discussion of just what constitutes a PED, i.e. Cortisone shots vs. blood platelet enrichment therapy vs. HGH; that’s a different discussion. There are hard and fast rules governing these sports- especially sports in which the risk to personal safety is enhanced, for a reason. One of those reasons is the unknown effects of long term treatment- to force a guy to place his long term health in jeopardy just to keep up with the Joneses is an untenable position.
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"Do you lie awake alone at night, admiring my gash?"
-Lord Varys
by John Danaher's Hair on Jul 1, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
All the things I mentioned allow a fighter to recover unnaturally fast. They’re just not deemed immoral due to the lines we decided to draw arbitrarily. Who says only one fighter gets it?
Blood platelet enrichment is something that will change your biology on fight night (or cycling day, game day, etc depending on the sport). HGH is great for bodybuilding, but it has the same problems I mentioned about anabolics: you’re not getting an advantage by putting on muscle/bones/organs and going to another weight class where your new competition has the advantage you were trying to “artificially” get.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"Do you lie awake alone at night, admiring my gash?"
-Lord Varys
by John Danaher's Hair on Jul 1, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
That’s why I said “it’s a matter of opinion”
Not a smart move by Black. Could have forced White away from defending his pawns from the other side…
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
look...
it’s a philosophical issue for sure, but Nate clearly broke the rules. He couldn’t get his level down to the legal limit by the time that he knew he had to. Your meta-analysis of this issue is relevant to the overall discussion, but not this particular issue.
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"Do you lie awake alone at night, admiring my gash?"
-Lord Varys
by John Danaher's Hair on Jul 1, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
We’re discussing this:
I still don’t get or like this whole “Get under the limit” shit.
It’s basically giving fighters the ok to cycle off PEDs as long as they come into the fight under it doesn’t matter what they do in training camp. Do you see it like that to?
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
NATE MARQUARDT: "So, again, three weeks out, um… I got the recommendation. My doctor decided to put me on a new treatment that was more aggressive because it was so close to my fight he said that it wouldn’t get basically it wouldn’t help me, it wouldn’t make me feel better by the time of my fight unless he did a more unless agreement and, uh, so I was on the treatment for two weeks and I took a blood test and, uh, which is normal throughout the treatment you had to take blood tests to make sure you’re within normal ranges and that test came back high and, at that point, my doctor said, well, you need to go off treatment and, uh, you know, let’s hope your down to normal levels by your fight. And, you know, obviously that was, you know, I was pretty much panicked at that point."
Are you referring to him omitting that the blood test he took for the purpose of monitoring himself was also requested by NJAC? Or that him being panicked isn’t descriptive enough for you to imply that he failed TUE?
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions
he said that he satisfied the NJ conditions...
when it turns out that NJ tested him the week of the PA fight and provided the PSAC with the finding (Nate’s levels were way high) that lead to PA’s actions.
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"Do you lie awake alone at night, admiring my gash?"
-Lord Varys
by John Danaher's Hair on Jul 1, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
When did he say that? Is there something beyond the Helwani interview that I should be looking at?
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Just to be clear
I’m not entirely against Nate being cut. If that’s where everyone thinks the standard should be set, then fine. However, what Chael did was far worse.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions
That doesn't matter
Dana has proven time and time again he is all for 2nd chances and this is Sonnen’s. Nate has already had his.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
I have to agree with Spider_Venom below
Chael was convicted for fraud – the same type of fraud that created the bad debt of banks and this enormous recession – and he lied in the CSAC hearing after load himself up on fight night.
Nate:
-failed test in 2005
-failed test in June 2011, resulting in NJ and PA issues
Chael:
-failed by a factor of 4 on fight night
-convicted of fraud
-lied to the CSAC
Chael’s 2nd chance and Marquardt’s 4th? More like Chael got a 4th chance in a year while Marquardt was denied a 3rd (and his second chance was 6 years ago).
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Chael was convicted for fraud
I’m curious what exactly you think this has to do with his fight career? Why should Dana be the one to punish him for this when he was already punished in a court of law?
It should but that's the only way his argument works.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
You don’t feel the same way about Rogers, do you?
In any case, my argument doesn’t hinge on that. Chael screwed up in the Silva fight (not just in failure to get the exemption, but in being at illegal levels during the fight), and then he screwed up again at his hearing when he lied in trying to weasel his way into a reduced sentence.
The first was under 3 minutes away from being a PR nightmare for their champ, and the second made the UFC change their TUF plans.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
You’re going to compare what Brett Rogers has done to Chael Sonnen?
Sorry, that’s where you lose me. That’s ridiculous and insulting to the intelligence of anyone you use that argument with.
Sonnen may be a sleezy car salesmen type cheater, but nothing he has done compares to choking his kids out and knocking his wife’s teeth out.
Not comparable, but I'm just making a point
You said:
I’m curious what exactly you think this has to do with his fight career?
It tells you that he’ll lie at others expense if it helps him, and that’s even more relevent to fighting than Roger’s heinous crimes. It confirms what we found out from his lies to CSAC: whatever he tells the commissions before fights is not trustworthy.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it's a fair point
Nobody is saying Rogers and Chael had equal offenses – that would be dumb.
But your argument was “why should Dana punish someone when they were already punished in the court of law?”
He responded by bringing up Rogers, who was punished by Dana BEFORE they were punished in a court of law.
In other words, do you or do you not think Dana should punish fighters for legal matters outside of the Octagon?
BOOSH
Once again name a fighter that told the truth about there PED use?
And no the it was the supplements fault doesn’t count!
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
Nate did tell the truth
In 2005, he told the truth but it was just a lame excuse. Ignorance and availability is not an excuse, and he should have been suspended for a year but the standards were too lax back then.
This time, he’s told the truth the whole time as well. Blame depends on the credibility of his primary care physician.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Nate's been lying to AC's to since we are using that as part of the "Chances" then
Nate’s at 6
-Failed in 2006
-lied to NVAC about “Supplements”
-Failed random test for NJAC
-Lied about Dr’s “New” treatment plan
-Given 8 weeks to get off the T and didn’t
-Failed PSAC tests had to backout of fight
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
You get to make up shit in trying to prove your case?
-Where proof that he lied about supplements? I’m pretty sure that it’s proven that it was indeed over the counter. It’s not a valid excuse, but it’s true.
-The failed NJAC and PSAC test are the same, unless I’m missing something.
-How do you know he lied about the new treatment? The idea was that injections would help quicker, while pills wouldn’t help in time.
-He did go off T for eight weeks, and passed tests the whole time. March-May 2011.
Two failed tests, one which is potentially excusable, depending on whether the doctor was legit.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not making anything up you aren't comprehending facts.
-The proof he lied is when he said he didn’t know what he was taking. I never said it wasn’t over the counter
-No they aren’t he failed tests for both of them
-Because it’s an excuse to why his levels were so high during training camp and the test just happened to be random so he had to have a reason
-I’m talking about the 8 weeks the PSAC gave him to get his levels down before the fight not the NJ thing
You are either gullible or have some blind hatred of Dana White
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
-How is that proof? You can read his mind? He didn’t know over-the-counter stuff was illegal, and I would make the same naive assumption before detailed research. It’s not a valid reason to lessen the suspension, but it’s not a lie.
-If they’re within a couple days of each other, they’re effectively the same test.
-What was random about it? It was the week before the fight. Nate knew he would be tested then.
-You need to supply more info about that, because nowhere do I see that the PSAC asked him to be off TRT for 8 weeks before the fight.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Kid Nate posted further up.......
That Nate bought an over the counter supplement that clearly stated on the bottle “Do not take if you are going to be tested for anabolic steroids”
Seems pretty obvious that the “I didnt know it was illegal” defense is an outright lie. Unless like 40 Cal. said “you are either gullible or have some blind hatred of Dana White”.
I’m pretty sure Kid Nate was being sarcastic, because nobody replied to my inquiry on that matter.
He was obviously in the wrong for not checking whether it was banned, and deserved a suspension, but you can’t prove he was lying. It’s not a valid excuse, but it’s not a lie.
by paythefighters on Jul 2, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
-Imo he knew what he was taking I don’t see how with all the evidence piling up you want to sit here and go point to point with excuses and justifications for what he did. And if you believe Kid Nate which I would consider a pretty good source the bottle said "Do not take if you are going to be tested for anabolic steroids" He’s a cheater plain and simple
-I guess you can call it one but it was two different tests by two different AC’s. I wonder if they consider it one or two
-No he didn’t know about it how would he know the NJAC would test him right before a fight in PA?
-I was thinking of them saying they gave him 8 weeks to take care of it.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
-Look, this is the first time we’ve ever seen that mentioned (the bottle label), and this case is six years old. Don’t you think that someone would have mentioned it in the aftermath on sherdog or something?
-Why does it matter if he knew about NJ? He knew about PA, so he knew he was getting tested. The random test, or “surprise”, is irrelevant.
-The PSAC can’t tell him to get off T, as it’s something a doctor prescribed. The NJSACB asked for the 8 week period to establish baseline levels as part of the TUE process (in fact, their endocrinologist agreed that his levels were low). When you say
-I’m talking about the 8 weeks the PSAC gave him to get his levels down before the fight not the NJ thingI don’t know what you’re talking about. Give me a link.
by paythefighters on Jul 2, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
you're totally ignoring the timing...
The UFC is negotiating a T.V. deal- one that will likely dictate how much growth the company is going to achieve over the next 3-5 years. Networks are going to look to recent ratings to use as part of their negotiations- Nate literally submarined the main event on a free card during this period. I’m not saying that Nate draws tons of eyes, nut it could only hurt. That’s kind of a big deal to the UFC right now.
"This is blood for blood and by the gallon. These are the old days, the bad days, the all-or-nothing days. They’re back! There’s no choice left. And I’m ready for war."
"Do you lie awake alone at night, admiring my gash?"
-Lord Varys
by John Danaher's Hair on Jul 1, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I can understand the business aspect
But it’s lame to call it “disgusting” while saying Chael paid his dues.
You’re basically saying it’s more forgivable to hide your cheating and have grossly illegal levels on fight night than to abide by the rules (which protect others) at the risk of jeopardizing the event.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Nate has hidden his cheating behind lies more than once now.
1) Supplements and I didn’t know, 2) Doctor went with aggressive treatment. He also had grossly illegal T levels during training camp. According to Meltzer " "more than double normal males of his age group"
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
Chael had even more grossly illegal levels, and it was during fight night. He hid that much more than Nate did.
Later, the scope of his lies was larger and they were far more blatant than anything you can say that Nate lied about.
He also hid his fraud for years until the authorities dug up enough evidence.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Every single fighter lies when they get caught.
But, but, but Chael’s are worse. They are all lies how are his worse they both lied to try and hide what they did. Same exact thing.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
Chael’s lies are well documented. What exactly are Nate’s proven lies?
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
well having a doctor who is dodgy at best administor your TRT program says to me nate was trying to cheat. sorry but if he was really trying to get the TUE for TRT and do things on the up and up he would have made sure his doctor was highly regarded in this field not some dr nick rivera. nate used the bullshit doctor to get injections to superload in training, but when the njasc suprised him with a test, his levels were through the roof. he got caught trying to cheat, caused the main event to be cancelled at a time of utmost importance for the ufc. so therefore goodbye.
If Nate just got the doctor in August, I’ll agree. If this was his longtime primary care physician, it’s fair to give Nate the benefit of the doubt.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
if his longtime primary care physician has no knowledge or limited in regards to TRT then wouldn’t you think that nate and his management should have been more thorough. i mean this is his livelyhood and if it was me i would want the top guy looking after me.
Why are you making all these assumptions?
What makes you think that his doctor had no knowledge about TRT? He gave pills in August and then injections later, so he looks like he knows enough. He never failed a test while on those pills but was feeling much better. The endocrinologist recommended by NJ came to the same conclusion that this doctor did. The time Marquardt had reason to question him is the test after the injections, at which point it was too late.
What makes you think the NJSACB surprised him? The week before a fight is not a surprise. Even if you’re intentionally juicing, you’d be a moron to be twice allowable amounts that close to a fight.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
If we are believing what Nate is saying then
He was at the allowable amount ON FIGHT DAY when in a regular situation he would be tested before and after the fight.So there wouldn’t have been a issue. My question is did he try to get a TUE in PA before or after NJ brought up the issues? Or was he just going to have his T at the right amount and no one would have to know about the problems in NJ.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
Greg Sirb talked about this being a six week old issue, so I assume he knew about the TRT. If Marquardt didn’t disclose any of this when applying for his PA license, then they wouldn’t be all chummy right now.
AFAICS, Marquardt’s doctor injected too high levels of testosterone. If Marquardt was doctor shopping when this happened, then he’s guilty, but I find that unlikely given that NJSACB’s endocrinologist was on the same page. Otherwise, it’s just a minor mistake by the doctor. Dosages aren’t an exact science, as they have large statistical variance from one guy to the next.
by paythefighters on Jul 2, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
His lies are proven by simple common sense and by listening to the facts and his account of the situation where he contradicts himself.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
Why don’t you point those contradiction out for us? I don’t see anything, and neither does the MMA media as they haven’t called him out for it.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
How are you so sure Chael lied?
Are you blindly trusting Kizer? It has been said that the NVAC has taken a turn for the worst since Rattner left to work for the UFC.
Are you serious? Chael said he had an exemption in NV, and he didn’t. That’s indisputable. He even admitted that he didn’t talk to Kizer, but that his representative did.
So your defense of Chael is some conspiracy theory where Kizer is now lying and manipulating all the records to settle some grudge against Chael and controlling his mind at his second hearing?
by paythefighters on Jul 2, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
“This guy made some bad choices, made some mistakes, has paid his dues and now he gets to come back and hopefully do things smarter this time.”
“Also, with his tiny shrivelled raisins he doesn’t have to worry about low blows!”
http://fightdrinker.blogspot.com
by some schmuck in texas on Jul 1, 2011 12:40 PM EDT reply actions
This "it was only over the counter supplement" shit needs to stop
you guys are so fucking gullible. The shit says right on the bottle what it is (supposed) to do.
Taking something that is going to BOOST YOUR FUCKING TESTOSTERONE will… wait for it… raise your T levels. AMAZING. Everyone that goes to a GNC knows about the “stuff” that are steroids that aren’t called steroids and that they will be banned relatively soon.
Nate was a cheater. And apparently is a cheater. Just because he doesn’t get on twitter and TV and sound like an idiot doesn’t make him any less of a cheater. Just because he cries on TV doesn’t make him any less of a cheater. Shit, it took him 72 hours to put out his “story” that blames some “mystery doctor” for all of his problems but of course he adds the caveat “its my fault still” at the end and cries.
That or he is incredibly incredibly dumb and should be fired just based on his stupidity.
by dbcb on Jul 1, 2011 12:51 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Could not have said it any better. GREEN.
"You eat what you kill, and that is all." -Shane Carwin
by James Anthony on Jul 1, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions
From what I understand the reason the T levels are high is
Because they are taking more than needed to get the extra advantages in training. I see some doctor shopping going on here. What I don’t understand is that from all the information i read it sounds like the NJAC was helping Nate cycle off which is baffling to me. Is the Commission caring about fighters taking PEDs or do they only care about them if it’s in there system at fight time? I wish there was out-of-competition testing being done or at least anyone who is on TRT get tested during training camp to make sure they aren’t taking extra T and just getting there levels down by fight time. And if a fighter has the TRT exemption why would they have to stop taking it weeks before a fight? Should there levels be the same tho whole time and not need to go off the T?
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
fighters on trt
should be tested every two weeks ( at the fighters expense ) to make sure they are not superloading for training. if they aren’t willing to do this they should not be allowed tue of trt. sorry but nate used the trt as a ped that is for sure
by gsot fan on Jul 1, 2011 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
It shouldn’t be what his levels are come fight time but how extensive his training was due to the loading up during Camp.
I am vorn the unspeakable the skulls of those who defy me bleach in the suns of hundreds of worlds...... and you are
From what I can tell, NJAC wanted to test Nate’s natural levels. Kizer said in another interview that there are other tests that can tell if the natural low is due to steroid abuse or a legit drop.
by paythefighters on Jul 1, 2011 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Nate was fired because he screwed the UFC out of their main event the day before he was supposed to fight in it.
Chael was not fired because he was involved in Anderson Silva’s most epic fight, and did not cost the UFC anything when he got in trouble.
by Sqwibbs on Jul 1, 2011 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Dana STFU. Reward a true P.O.S. Like Chael and shun a “nice guy” like Nate Marquardt. Makes dana sound like a highschool cheerleader trying to lose her virginity to the captain of the football team.
Do you people not understand english?
I wish I could type slower so you could understands this. It is Sonnen’s 2nd chance just like Dana has given almost everyone. Nate has aleady had his! What is so hard to understand about that? Damn.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
Oh and thanks for your English. I doubt typing slower will help. I read at the same pace regardless.
I meant to slower so it could be read slower. And the lying to the AC is included in the whole failed test debacle.
If lying counts then Nate is on his 10th chance because his whole interview is filled with lies. He didn’t pull out of the Akiyama fight. The UFC took him off the card.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
I dont understand why were defending cheaters period. Far as im concerned im with BJ they both need the boot.
I'm not defending cheaters at all.
I’m defending Dana because he has actually been consistent on giving 2nd chances that’s why Chael isn’t gone but Nate is. People are blaming him for Nate messing up and it’s just ridiculous. I guess I should just post a Haters gunna hate gif(if I knew how)
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
I think most reasonable people see this for what it is
Yes, Dana can be an irrational, spiteful douche, but he’s pretty much right to cut Marquardt. Sonnen is profitable, so it’s tolerated til it happens again.
So my question is:
Is there any recompense for a guy like Dan Miller, who has now lost twice to guys caught after the fact?
Yeah
Is there any recompense for a guy like Dan Miller, who has now lost twice to guys caught after the fact?
He gets to keep his job.
I suspect that the fact that they were caught is some recompense in and of itself. Plus, Millers manager will be reminding Joe Silva that he would be 7-2 in the UFC if it wasn’t for cheaters.
I just hope that has some weight I guess
i don’t think he’s a P4P great or anything, but dude deserves a break.
considering they brought back
Vera after Silva’s positive I’m sure they at least are aware of that and don’t hold it against him.
"Progress lies not in enhancing what is, but in advancing toward what will be." - Kahlil Gibran
by merryprankster on Jul 1, 2011 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Thanks
that provides perspective. The records remain the same though, right?
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