How to Out-Strike Nick Diaz, Part 3
by gzl5000 on Jun 5, 2011 3:49 AM EDT
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Print*THAR BE MANY A GIF AHEAD.* It's quite a long piece too.
Technique Central: Nick Diaz Part 1, Part 2.
I thought about waiting to post this until the TUF 13 coverages dies down on Monday or Tuesday, but fuck that, I'm happy with this fanpost so I'm gonna post it now. <shamelesswhoring> Please rec if you like it so it doesn't get lost in the post-event coverage. </shamelesswhoring> Here we go with our last key to out-striking the elder Diaz!
3. Endurance
This one is the lynchpin. I debated over putting this one first because it's so important, but instead I'm going to save the most important for last. Just keep in mind that as endurance deteriorates, it compounds the issues mentioned before in defense and footwork. So yes, it's important for all fighters to have conditioning. But there are particular ways Diaz opponents are enticed to blow through their gas tanks.
First, what makes endurance most important? It's not simply because Nick has one of the best gas tanks in MMA. Though it's certainly an advantage in every fight, not all of Nick's opponents have a history of being out of shape or gassing out, but they all tend to in fights against Nick. So how does Nick, in every fight, maximize his greatest asset by pitting his endurance and conditioning directly against his opponent's?
Taunts: Part of what makes the Diazes so unlikable (to me) is their complete lack of respect for any and all people not part of the Diaz family or Cesar Gracie fight team. However, if you're gonna be a total dick to anyone and everyone, with or without provocation, this is the way to do it. Fact is, the lack of respect shown by Nick in cage plays directly into his strengths when it comes to cardio. You might recognize that Nick starts each and every fight exactly the same way. This look familiar?
via www.gifsoup.com
Nick's chin looks wide open, nice and inviting, doesn't it? Doesn't his face look just so perfectly punchable? What Nick's doing is not just attempting to engage his opponents from the opening bell, but attempting to do so in a specific way: from just far away enough that they have to reach with punches, and in such a dipshit way that his opponents can't help but try and KO him immediately out of irritation. The last part of this gif, with Frank Shamrock, demonstrates perfectly how this works:
- Make your opponent think he can hit you.
- Make him want to hit you HARD.
- Use your superior reach and/or height to lean back out of range, get a downward angle on his chin and start working a volume of punches as soon as he moves.
It's a brilliant plan that makes use of the Diaz attitude. Remember in part 2 where I made that weird analogy about karate? Yeah, it's coming back.
<Weird Analogy Time> Essentially, the range Nate kept in the Davis fight made his style into a kind of bizzaro-world anti-Shotokan, baiting his opponent into stepping forward unprotected with an unrelenting barrage of tiny punches from slightly too far away. Our most famous Shotokan stylist, Lyoto Machida, instead forces opponents to step forward unprotected by refusing to initiate strikes in a range where he can be hit back. The similarity is that decisive, technically proficient footwork combined with solid defensive fundamentals is required to land solid strikes on fighters of either style; range must be safely disrupted before a fighter can line up his counterpunch. </Weird Analogy Time>
The Diaz taunt, combined with the wide open hands and height advantage actually support this Shotokan comparison. The peculiarities of the Shotokan style, the wide hands, high chin, and low shoulders, though flaws in punching range, become traps instead at kicking range and beyond. They say with humility what Diaz says with arrogance: "Hit me. I'm wiiiiiide open." Thus, the opponent overcommits from too far away, only to be met halfway there with a single power shot from a Shotokan stylist, or a flurry of punches from Nick Diaz. It works because while the opponent's strike is aimed all the way at Diaz or Machida's chin, the counterpunch is aimed at the halfway spot the entire time.
Okay, so we've established that taunts and the way Diaz stands invites opponents to swing for the fences right away. But if that invites KO-counter opportunities for Lyoto Machida, why does it target Nick Diaz opponents' cardio? The difference, as I mentioned, between the Diaz style and Shotokan, is that while Lyoto is trying to knock Rashad's head clear off the in the gif above, Diaz is trying to confuse his opponents by tagging the chin and starting a swarm of punches they can't defend against. If you've watched him fight before, you know that once Nick throws his first punch, he rarely rests or stays stationary for more than a few seconds between combinations.
The Swarm: Ah, the other hallmark of the Diaz style. Firstly, the swarm of punches that Nick throws is indeed intended to finish opponents...eventually. The initial punches of the combination are aimed at the chin, which stun and unbalance an opponent, but which also take away some of their cardio. This is only part of the point, however. The other part is what an opponent is forced to do in defense. Let's look at the Zaromskis fight.
We can see here that Zaromskis is badly hurt, and also tired. The two tend to go hand in hand, as I mentioned previously. All but 3 or 4 of Nick's 16 punches are aimed at the head (we'll come to this presently). Watch Zaromskis' behavior; he's absolutely desperate to avoid Nick's onslaught of punches. He covers up, shifts this way and that even tries a counterpunch or two, which he pays for. The point of Nick's approach here though, is that Zaromskis must constantly move and expend more and more energy to try and escape, at exactly the point where he most wants to move out of range and try to catch his breath. It's the standing equivalent of an exhausted fighter whose opponent has just achieved mount. He knows he must move and try to escape immediately, but doing so requires energy he does not have and opens him up to more punishment. On the other hand, staying stationary allows his opponent to go to town on his face in the worst position possible. This is exactly the position Zaromskis is in right here, and there just isn't a good way out of it for him. This is how, once he has an opponent initially stunned or confused, Nick attacks both the equilibrium and cardio of an opponent at the same time.
Body Punches: Relatively speaking, this is probably the newest addition to Nick's style on the list. Since his release from the UFC and the beginnings of his success in Strikeforce, Nick has become one of the more dangerous body punchers in MMA, in large part because of how he sets them up. How does he set them up? By using steps 1 and 2 in this article previous (taunting/countering and then swarming) and using your desperation to cover up and get out of range as an opportunity to land undefended to the breadbasket, liver, or spleen. Frank, would you mind demonstrating?
Whoopsy spleeny! Nick's body shots don't just finish the fight though, they increase his cardio advantage as well. As anyone who's played a recent MMA video game or taken a body punch themselves will tell you, shots to the liver, solar plexus or spleen not only hurt, they disrupt your breathing in a major way, which takes away your cardio right quick. While Nick Diaz is swarming you, he's become a master at fluidly mixing in body shots when rocked opponents try to cover up to the head. Because they're undefended and a shelled-up opponent has no chance to fire back, these punches also tend to be the ones that Nick winds up on and sits down on the most. Scott Smith will demonstrate this one.
Again, the body shots hurt like hell, they take away your gas tank, and they're so fluid that you're forced to move and expend more energy immediately if you want to avoid more of them. All of a sudden you're running on fumes and triathalon runner Nick Diaz is still fresh.
Chin and Recovery Time: This is the final part of Nick's cardio-vantage, and possibly the one least based in skill. No one can tell you exactly what makes a good chin: a lot of it is neck and jaw muscles, part of it is cardio because those muscles are less able to tighten and absorb impact as you tire, part of it may be genetically determined bone structure, and part of it may be mental toughness or that ephemeral quality called "heart." Obviously, some of these factors are under human control and others are not. The exact mix and number of factors are unclear, suffice it to say that Nick has enough of them in enough quantity that his chin is decent and his recovery speed is inhuman.
This comes into play when Nick's anti-Shotokan has its flaws exploited and he's actually hit by those haymakers his opponents inevitably throw, and this happens more often than his win record would suggest. Nick has been dropped by most of the good strikers he's fought recently. We already saw the knockdowns from KJ Noons and Paul Daley in previous editions, here's Zaromskis dropping Nick if you're interested. Lucky for Nick, his excellent conditioning allows him to recover extremely quickly from knockdowns, while his chin seems to be just good enough to prevent him from getting KO'd outright on a single strike. This isn't just protective when his defense fails, it actually encourages Nick's opponents to continue blowing energy by swinging to finish on every punch. As any combat athlete will tell you, missing punches gasses you more than landing them, and nowhere does this happen more often than in a frantic attempt to finish an athlete who recovers quickly.
So when it all adds up, Nick's superior cardio contributes to keeping his recovery time low, while all of the others things he's doing contribute to chipping away at his opponents' power and ability to take punches. To see this illustrated in a moment, here's the final exchange with Paul Daley (click to view).
From this angle and at this speed, you can see the KO hook land perfectly. As I watched this live, I shouted, "Oohhh!" at the TV...but not because of Nick's punch. Paul Daley clearly lands a thunderous right hook at the exact same time Nick lands his. It's not in as good of a spot (on the cheek), but it looked devastating in real time. In addition, you can see that Paul's positioning is actually pretty good here-his left foot is outside Diaz's right, giving him a really good angle for his punch. It's Nick's chin that lets him survive this. Daley is tired and hurt by this point, which takes something away from his punch and ability to withstand punishment. Oppositely, Diaz is still going strong cardio-wise, meaning his neck muscles can stay tight to absorb this impact, and his punch still carries nearly the force it had at the beginning of the round. Diaz's ability to force Daley to work hard every second of the fight, and efforts to disrupt his breathing with body shots meant that in taking away his cardio, Nick was able to out-strike a fighter who, on paper, was the better and more powerful puncher.
So there's the analysis. What have we learned? In essence, Nick Diaz is a master at using the peculiarities of his attitude and physical presence to force his opponents to fight his fight, pitting his best qualities against his opponents' weaknesses. He is the ultimate test of striking technique at welterweight, the pressure he brings will eventually cause your technique to deteriorate and become more and more wild, from a desperate attempt to stop the onslaught of strikes and just hit the bastard, or a rapidly emptying gas tank and slackening muscles, or both at the same time. So what do you need to beat Nick Diaz? You could always take him down and control him from there; no matter how close the Sanchez and Sherk fights were, it's undeniable that wrestling was Diaz's achilles heel in those bouts. Georges St. Pierre may be just the man to initiate that gameplan, he would seem to have the ability to avoid submissions with his smothering top control and punishing ground 'n pound. GSP's unwillingness to challenge Jake Shields on the ground makes me doubt his confidence in this area though.
But say you don't have world class wrestling and black belt level submission defense. What if you're forced into a striking exchange with Nick? You'll need:
- Disciplined strike defense: This doesn't mean shelling up or bobbing around while dropping your hands. You'll need decent head movement, and you'll have to employ it without giving in to the temptation to drop one or both hands. Keep your feet under you and move your head just enough to slip Nick's punches. This will prevent him from getting the initial touch on your chin that he needs to set up his power shots, and open him up to counter punching opportunities.
- Good footwork: Cutting angles is a must. Never move straight back or rush straight in, and circle to the blind spot on the lead side whenever possible. You'll need to quickly move in or out of range as the situation demands, and you'll need to keep your stance while you do it; being able to fire off a stiff shot at any time will be your counter to letting Nick pressure you by following you to the edge of the cage. Keeping your feet underneath you will also let you use your head movement to capitalize on those counter opportunities, rather than just creating them.
- Variety in striking offense: Headhunting against Diaz is a quick way to gas yourself. Not since his 5th professional fight has Diaz been TKO'd, so odds are you're not gonna be able to do it with one punch. Diaz's height makes his chin hard to reach and reaching for it makes you easy to counter, so work in strikes to the body and legs whenever possible. It sucks when Nick punches you in the liver, so do him the favor right back! The liver is an easy target for a straight right hand on a southpaw, provided you're positioning your lead foot to the outside. However...
- Keep a cool head: It requires mental discipline not to swing to knock Nick Diaz out with every punch. Follow every good corner's advice here: just touch him. Tap him with every punch or kick, never look for the KO. You can ruin a great gameplan and gas yourself out quickly by doing this. Evangelista Santos did a great job exploiting Nick's vulnerability to leg kicks, but tried so hard to kick his leg in half that he gassed by the end of the first (granted, Cyborg has gas tank issues anyway). Hit stiff, not wild; this will contribute to being able to keep your feet underneath you with each punch, which will add up hugely by the last round when your punches still have steam on them because your feet are still underneath you.
- Cardio, cardio, cardio: This goes without saying. If it's going to be a 3-rounder, be prepared to go 5. If it's a 5-rounder, 7. Cardio for grappling is a bitch, and is something you'll have to take care of on your own...good luck with that. For striking though, cardio will have two dimensions. First, practice moving constantly. CONSTANTLY. I'm talking Guida vs. Gomi or Edgar vs. Penn level movement here. In and out, circling back and forth, never setting for more than a second or two. It's a choice between making Nick follow your movement, or letting him corner you with his. Second, be prepared to punch. A lot. Here's where keeping a disciplined attitude will help, don't put everything into every punch. But do be ready to throw (and defend against) upwards of 440 strikes over the course of a 5-round fight.
As you can see, it's a daunting task, yet not impossible. Diaz opponents have had these skills before, some were just missing one or two elements, others had them all and failed to properly utilize them. As I mentioned, Cyborg likely could have chopped Nick down had he been better conditioned and not tried to kill his legs with each and every kick. Paul Daley would also seem to have each element necessary, but scouted Diaz incorrectly, believing that a peek-a-boo defense while circling to his right would be sufficient. He too fell into the trap of swinging for the finish. The welterweight division will need a Frankie Edgar styled fighter to beat Nick Diaz standing; a technical and highly conditioned athlete who can keep a cool head and be satisfied with outclassing Diaz rather than caving his skull in. As Brian Stann proved against Chris Leben, the only option when facing a high-level brawler is to be more patient and technical than he is. Paradoxically, trying for the finish is more likely to result with you being the one who gets finished in the end. Thanks for reading everyone! Let me know if there's a subject you'd like to see tackled on Technique Central in the future.
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I think GSP has the tools to win standing
GSP’s unwillingness to challenge Jake Shields on the ground makes me doubt his confidence in this area though.
I think fans are jaded by his one eyed performance against shields. I feel that GSP didnt want to risk a ground confrontation with Shields because that is Shields’ only strength, but Diaz is good standing and on the ground. He is a versatile fighter just like GSP, but he lacks the wrestling to dictate the pace. I see GSP using a similar gameplanning of striking and wrestling, ala BJ Penn 2, to neutralize Nick. He would be jabbing/kicking from outside, and taking down Diaz anytime Nick tries to rush in for a flurry. I think GSP has the tools to win standing without wrestling, but I’m sure we’ll see him use it and use it often. I really think Frankie Edgar is a mini-GSP in many respects, and that was your model for the style to beat Diaz.
Now in a pure striking match, things do get a bit tougher to find the right guy. The division is wrestling centric, so to find a good striker who is ranked high enough without good wrestling/bjj is hard. Alves is good, but I’d see Alves getting overconfident after he starts hurting Nick. Kampmann would be my pick from the current top 25 not named GSP to win this fight standing. He generally does a good job using tight kickboxing to pick apart opponents. His main problem is he screws-up mentally from time to time.
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I hope it is the case that GSP kept it standing because of Shields’ weakness, but once he was temporarily blinded in one eye, you’d think he would take it to the ground if he felt at all confident there. Standing out at range is much more dangerous if you can’t see than being able to feel exactly where your opponent is.
The BJ Penn 2 gameplan I agree with, in that he needs to put Nick on the defensive in terms of grappling to have any real success striking. Diaz is almost always moving forward, and GSP can use that to his advantage to take Diaz down. Unless he makes Diaz hesitant to move forward, I don’t see GSP having any striking success. I addressed this in a comment to this article. I’ll copy paste below:
This is the range GSP likes to use his jab from:
Nick Diaz, in general, does not move backwards. He’s not gonna let GSP keep that range (GSP’s wrestling will make this a stupid gameplan, but Nick’s gonna do it anyway)
See the crouch he comes out of to deliver it? That exacerbates the problem Filt is talking about. Watch:
See how Nick gets power from those punches? Partly it’s keeping his feet and hips under him while he swings, partly it’s shoulder rotation, and partly it’s the leverage he has as a taller guy to really sit down on his punches and hit the temple reliably with that left hook (which he also KO’d Daley with). GSP also drops the hands and doesn’t move his head much from the crouch, preferring to let his speed protect him.
I don’t see GSP 1. Getting comfortable enough at range to leap in and out with that jab, or 2. Being successful in punching from that crouch he uses. It’s great for making his shot and jab look kinda similar, but until he proves to Nick that his GnP is strong enough to be feared, I don’t think that’ll be a deterrent to moving forward with the high-volume style. More importantly, it gives Nick a nice angle for the left hook.
Finally, GSP only has one good punch with his right hand: the overhand. That’s not gonna cut it against Nick, it’s too slow. If he had a right straight, hook or uppercut, I’d say the crouch might let him get a good angle to land on Nick’s chin (KJ did a nice job with the right hook a few times), but he doesn’t, and his head movement isn’t quick enough to give him a good window with the left jab or hook.
GSP should use the BJ gameplan against Nick, and only box once Nick is well and truly afraid of the takedown.
Not sure why the block quotes are all messed up. Anyway, Filt’s point that I reference above is that using an orthodox jab against a southpaw is a losing proposition, because the lead hands are aligned. GSP initiates almost all his offense from his lead side, using his jab and a lead leg kick. Both will be much harder to land with Nick’s lead side in the way.
As far as who else could beat Nick standing…tough call. Before the Story fight, I would’ve said Alves, but Story bullied him and trapped him against the cage so effectively that I have a hard time imagining how Alves would deal with the pressure Nick puts on you. Kampmann may just be too slow, and he doesn’t use enough head movement. Covering up just isn’t good enough defensively against Diaz. I don’t know if I really see any UFC welterweights that could out-strike Diaz, at least not without making him tentative with takedown after takedown first.
I'll also say...
I really think Frankie Edgar is a mini-GSP in many respects, and that was your model for the style to beat Diaz.
They’re similar in that they both use a speed advantage to great effect, and they both move in and out of range well. The difference is that Edgar uses angles and variety in his striking much better than GSP does. GSP keeps a long range, then darts straight in and out with his jab or a shot. He rarely ever initiates with any strike other than a jab or lead low kick. Frankie, on the other hand, makes you follow him, constantly changes the angle he’s coming at you from, and is able to use clean punching technique with either hand to initiate.
Watch this beautiful display of footwork and head movement:
He also has a good straight right hand (a necessity against a southpaw) and has the defensive discipline to block punches, move his head (see how his head moves off-line to the left as he throws), and fire back in the pocket.
Good reply
I agree with most of what you say, as I have a
I hope it is the case that GSP kept it standing because of Shields’ weakness, but once he was temporarily blinded in one eye, you’d think he would take it to the ground if he felt at all confident there.
True. However at the same time he was still hurting Shields and even dropped him after the eyepoke. Maybe he felt he could hang in there and still win it. We’re never going to know exactly know as none of us can know what was going through his head.
They’re similar in that they both use a speed advantage to great effect, and they both move in and out of range well. The difference is that Edgar uses angles and variety in his striking much better than GSP does. GSP keeps a long range, then darts straight in and out with his jab or a shot. He rarely ever initiates with any strike other than a jab or lead low kick. Frankie, on the other hand, makes you follow him, constantly changes the angle he’s coming at you from, and is able to use clean punching technique with either hand to initiate.
Another thing that really makes them similar, IMO, is their tendency to stay out of brawls and the way they can integrate takedowns with striking. They have their differences, but the way both can make you strike and counter with a take down is remarkably similar IMO, hence I always refer to him as a mini-GSP
I don’t know if I really see any UFC welterweights that could out-strike Diaz, at least not without making him tentative with takedown after takedown first.
I think we wont see UFC welterweights try without take downs first either. It’s a wrestling centric division, and even a guy like Kampmann has excellent TD’s.
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Good points.
You’re definitely right about how Edgar and GSP mix takedowns fluidly into their striking game. Each seems to avoid brawls by making their opponents tentative with that fluidity and unpredictability.
There's a big difference in opponents here
Bocek and Maynard are not respecting Edgar’s power, and are looking to hit him.
Any time GSP even moved his right hand, Koscheck was leaping backwards and Shields stuck out his arm and moved his head away. It doesn’t really matter who is following or leading when strikes aren’t being thrown. It how they’ve conditioned themselves to react when when they see or sense a punch is coming. Koscheck and Shields are defensive fighters. Hardy fought defensively against GSP but had no respect for Condit. Alves fought somewhat defensively against GSP.
Fitch’s behaviour was closest to the Bocek’s and Maynard’s in your GIFs above, as he was willing to take a punch to stay in the pocket and try to land something.
by paythefighters on Jun 6, 2011 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions
Fair points.
Diaz will move forward for sure. I still don’t have much confidence in GSP’s ability to strike with him though. Even against Fitch, GSP set up most of his strikes with his lead side, which is just not feasible against a southpaw with good boxing. Relatedly, GSP has never shown a good straight right hand, which is the best weapon against a southpaw. Finally, Nick will still have a height advantage. I know GSP has 4 inches of reach on Nick, but 1. Height will matter more because of the angle it gives Nick on his lead right hook, and 2. The crouch GSP perpetually strikes from is great for his jab, but Nick’s stance will take the jab away, and the crouch will exacerbate Nick’s height advantage.
To out-strike Nick (disregarding wrestling for a second), GSP would have to develop a good tight left hook and straight (not overhand) right, neither of which he had at last viewing. Here’s the best left hook I’ve ever seen GSP throw:
It’s a nice counter to Koscheck’s straight right. But this is where Nick’s height comes into play. On a southpaw, that hook has to travel up and over the lead shoulder. Koscheck stands 5’10" and in an orthodox stance, leaving plenty of room for that looping hook to land. Imagine 3 more inches of height, at Diaz’s 6’1", and that punch is hitting the lead shoulder. Not to mention that the crouch GSP is punching from is necessary in order to give that wide punch any anchoring and/or power, and that just makes it harder to reach Nick’s chin.
As far as the right hand goes, unless GSP improves significantly from the Shields fight, he’ll be in trouble. This:
Is just not gonna cut it against a taller fighter with a good chin. There’s very little power there if GSP can’t land the punch on a downward angle, and he’s not tall enough to do that against Nick.
Basically, Nick’s stance and height pose a lot of problems for how GSP strikes. GSP will need to make the takedown (and follow up GnP) a real threat. This may make Nick more hesitant to come forward, which might open up at least the range GSP needs for the jab, or more likely it will make Nick crouch down to anticipate a sprawl. That would decrease the height problem and open up GSP’s ability to strike while sitting down on his punches.
He did look a bit sloppy with his winging overhand right against Shields
But at the same time he has used straight right hands to knockdown Hughes and Alves.
The second gif is a superman punch, but still a right hand. The Shields fight was really an anomaly, as GSP has used straights effectively in the past. I feel part of it may is to exploit a weakness Shields has to the looping overhand. Hendo hit him with a fairly similar punch. GSP has been known to develop very specific strategies tailored to dangerous opponents, which means he may work on specific techniques to deal with a southpaw striker like Diaz.
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My bad
The hughes knockdown was due to a follow up left hook, but that serves as an example of GSP’s use of the left.
Both of these fights are old and before his work with Freddy Roach, but I see no reason his straight would suffer under a pro-boxing trainer. Again, i think the overhand was a product of fighting shields, not a change in style.
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- T-Rex
GSP knocked Fitch down with a straight right off of a caught kick, as well.
Beyond that, I think something being lost here is the relative skill set of GSP’s opponents. When Anderson laid three MW title fight stinkers in a row, most of us were inclined to blame the lack of interest in his opponents. I think something similar occurred here.
When you look at GSP’s last five title defences – Shields, Kos, Hardy, Alves, Penn, Fitch – only with Hardy and Shields did he display an unvaried, and admittedly boring gameplan. Unsurprisingly, these were his most one-dimensional opponents.
People ask why he did not strike more with Hardy, or GnP more with Shields. Well, because he simply didn’t need to. Do we honestly think he feared Shields’ ground game more than Penn’s, or Hardy’s stand up more than Alves? Of course not. I think GSP recognized these opponents were completely limited and his performances reflected that.
Again Fitch, Penn and Alves, he employed a mix of great and varied striking, vicious ground-n-pound. I look for that again in the Diaz fight.
by Disco-Platypus on Jun 6, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Perhaps. We'll have to see.
His reluctance to take Shields down in the 4th and 5th still worries me though. It was clear by that point that Shields was able to hit him (though not hurt him, of course), and he might’ve better been able to avoid that and control Jake on the ground. I guess it could have just as easily been on instructions from his corner though.
I think you answered your own point there. Shields was not able to hurt him with striking and GSP knew it. He had the lead and did not need to take him down.
Also, Penn has a more dangerous BJJ game than either Shields and Diaz IMO and GSP took him down and GnP him no problem. I know some people say Penn is not as dangerous off his back, but when is he EVER on his back? Against GSP and Hughes the two best top control guys in the sport and he subbed Hughes off his back didn’t he?
Hurt him, no, but he was certainly hitting him. GSP came really, really close to losing round 4, and according to fightmetric actually did lose round 5. MMA judging the way it is, GSP was risking a loss or draw in what should’ve been a comfortable victory.
BJ may be better at BJJ overall (not my area of expertise…correct me if I’m wrong), but from what I understand his strength has always been the top game rather than the guard. This is from BJJ competitions as well as MMA. In fact, BJ doesn’t have any submission wins from his back in MMA. He RNC’d Hughes. Instead, he looks to control posture and/or sweep, which given GSP’s base is probably the single hardest thing to do when grappling with him, compounded in BJ’s case by his lack of size and strength compared to GSP.
A stronger and more lanky Shields, who has a much better guard, may have posed a confidence problem. If so, Diaz will pose an equal one because of how active his guard is and how deep his gas tank is.
I do not know about Penn’s BJJ career as far as subs off his back, but in MMA he simply is never on his back except against Hughes and GSP, oh and Fitch, so the opportunity has not reall been there. The Hughes RNC he got I believe he started from his back threatened some subs to set up taking his back and getting the choke, which shows him threatening off his back. But yeah Diaz’s length and not giving up as much size could be a big difference.
Watch Koscheck's fist open. Madafaka tried to poke GSP.
".He still has a ground game that seems heavily dependent on lying still and hoping that his opponent won't notice his very kimura-able arm..."
by dancingChicken on Jun 6, 2011 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m curious if Diaz will be able to swarm nearly as easily as he has in the past against those with a good shot, like how a hurt Cain was able to diffuse Kongo’s aggression with takedowns.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
I love this series because it's full on Nick Diaz gifs
and it is really hard to catch Nick Diaz being boring.
Also, you go to ‘anti-shotokan’ to describe Diaz’s taunting as a setup? Y’all must have forgot.
Any excuse for those gifs, I take. Toney had no idea what hit him or where it came from.
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jun 5, 2011 2:55 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Okay, those are awesome.
I think Diaz is a bit more strategic with his taunting though, he doesn’t quite have the 1-punch power necessary to pull off one of those. It’s a ploy to draw opponents out of their gameplans and into a brawl, and it’s why he specifically does it right off the bat and any time his opponent tries to reset.
RJJ on the other hand, just doesn’t give a fuck. Dude didn’t care what his opponent did with the taunt, because he was so much better than everyone else.
I had to search a bit for the Toney one because most cut out the Jones setup.
Jones and Diaz have a very similar “don’t give a fuck” mentality in the ring. You see Roy openly mocking a pound for pound great boxer (at the time) like it’s no thang. But when Toney does it back, it completely flips the “Aw fuck no you didn’t” switch.
It’s not a great overall comparison, since Nick Diaz isn’t anywhere close to as good as Jones was, nor is he the same type of athlete (slow twitch vs. fast twitch muscle), but they did have similar mental wars with opponents. The key difference being what you just said. Jones would taunt and then do whatever he wanted because he was so fucking athletic, gifted, and good. Diaz plans to have them come straight forward and puts his fist in the center of that line so they walk right into it. I’m sure Diaz would do more like Jones does if he were talented and athletic enough. Would probably look a lot like Silva when he moves forward.
Another choice gif, that I think is way more impressive than the KO shot and gets painfully overlooked because the finish was such a spectacle:
So pretty. Bobbing to his left side which makes Forrest circle out to try and reset. Anderson cuts off the angle and collapses the distance by switching stances (all while moving forward) and throwing a right hook while Forrest is confused by the distance and the switch to southpaw. The timing is key since Forrest was clearly expecting a reset once he circled out, but there was Silva right in his face. That hook came just over Forrest’s lead hand and if it didn’t knock him down, the followup left would have. It also looks like Anderson may have been chambering a left kick to follow it up but was off balance and didn’t raise his heel since he was sitting down hard on a punch that whiffed.
Brutal controlled aggression, all of which was based on taunting his opponent in the first minute of the fight and being an absurdly good natural athlete. Oh, and talented. I assume this is what Diaz would look like if he were more explosive than cardio based.
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by pdl on Jun 5, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Hell yes.
I love that Silva gif. In fact, that sort of brilliant head movement and footwork is exactly what would work best against Diaz. Granted, being Anderson Silva works against almost anyone.
It’s pretty impressive that Diaz has figured out a way to make his slow-twitch triathalon muscles work in that style. I haven’t seen a ton of his earlier fights, but I’ve heard people say that he used to fight a more conventional boxing style, and that he did have 1-punch power, if not 1-punch KO power. Over the years, it seems he’s gone through one of the more impressive evolutions I can think of, of matching style to skill and natural ability. It’d be a lot easier to hate him if I didn’t respect him so much. Conversely, he’d be a lot easier to like if he weren’t such a jerk.
One of the things about Diaz getting beaten by wrestlers really is the ruleset and his bad offensive wrestling
as well as the fact that his frame gives him a terrible build for wrestling in MMA, plus he lacks the explosiveness for a power double. Since he was a BJJ fighter to start with he liked getting taken down because it was what he knew and could do best. He really didn’t have many other options since he was so limited.
The turning point is at one of my favorite cards ever, UFC 47. Robbie Lawler was the golden boy the UFC was building as a new star and they had to build him up after a loss. So they gave the young guy with brutal KO power and strong takedown defense a BJJ artist with bad takedowns. It was strong matchmaking to build a future star, unfortunately Lawler had Rick Flair in his corner or something:
Diaz basically won off his chin, his mouth (was constantly calling Lawler a bitch during the fight), and don’t give a fuckery. Lawler got mad, Diaz took advantage of an emotional fighter and landed just right. It was the very fact that he was a mean, constantly angry punk with a chip on his shoulder that got him a win when he was being fed to a company favorite. He’s been able to craft a totally unique style based on meshing his physical attributes and personality that can’t be replicated outside of Stockton. You can’t separate the personality from the fighting style, both are indelibly tied to each other.
It reminds me of an article on cracked that asked if Kanye West is a genius or retarded. The same goes for Diaz. Is he a some kind genius who learned how his body operates relative to other athletes and designed a strategy based around maximizing the effectiveness of his physical attributes? Is he a pissed off kid from a shithole neighborhood that just fights because he can get paid?
"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
by pdl on Jun 5, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Great points.
I didn’t realize how much Diaz’s attitude played into his fight style until I started writing and researching for this series. The Lawler fight is probably the best example of the taunting and chin parts of the article above, and dammit I searched for that gif everywhere and couldn’t find it. But yes, perfect example of a more experienced (competition quality-wise) fighter with more power, better striking and better wrestling who would’ve seemed the perfect matchup to beat Diaz. Yet he was taken completely out of his game when Diaz got inside his head, and gassed himself trying to knock his head off with every punch.
Cracked is damn funny at times..
<img src="http://cdn-www.cracked.com/articleimages/dan/kanyeblog/kanye2.jpg"/>
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
Hey, hey what can I do?---I got a little woman and she won't be true.
opps
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
Hey, hey what can I do?---I got a little woman and she won't be true.
I know this is about the striking
But there’s one elephant in the room, not a single TD attempt is shown in any of these GIFs. If Diaz hurts GSP, he’s going to be able to take him down easily anyway.
Not afraid to nitpick
Well yeah.
So what do you need to beat Nick Diaz? You could always take him down and control him from there; no matter how close the Sanchez and Sherk fights were, it’s undeniable that wrestling was Diaz’s achilles heel in those bouts.
GSP will just have to worry about Diaz’s excellent guard. Granted, he was just fine against BJ, but top control rather than guard has always been BJ’s strength, and the length of Diaz’s limbs might pose a more difficult problem.
I'm sure GSP's BJJ is good enough to avoid getting submitted
From what I understand it’s easier to defend a submission than it is to land one. GSP is a black belt also IIRC so he should have few problems grinding the fight out if he chooses. I see the fight looking similar to Guida/Pettis.
GSP is a black belt also IIRC so he should have few problems grinding the fight out if he chooses. I see the fight looking similar to Guida/Pettis.
He also trains with some legit grapplers too, I think he even trained with Roger Gracie at one point. I think this will be similar, but with far more GNP and less attempting to pass guard from GSP.
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On paper, I agree with you both.
I just wish I knew what was going through GSP’s head in the Shields fight, especially after the eye injury. To me, that was the better option that standing at range nearly blind. At least half of fighting Nick Diaz is mental, and if the reason he didn’t follow Shields to the ground was due to a lack of confidence, I’m not so sure he’ll avoid getting tapped.
Better option against a dangerous striker, but I think GSP felt confident enough in his standing even without full vision. He did knockdown shields pretty nasty after the eyepoke, no reason to deviate from his gameplan if he felt he would win.
I think GSP biggest weakness are his mental freakouts that he showed against Hughes and Serra. At the same time however, he has shown himself to be fairly strong mentally in other fights, fighting through groin and eye injuries. He sticks to his gameplan that he has trained for months the vast majority of the time, more so then any fighter.. I think he will be fine, as GSP hasn’t shown a propensity to fight recklessly due to smack talk (Kos, Penn). His mental mistakes were do to glorifying Hughes and underestimating Serra. I think Greg Jackson also does a good job keeping GSP calm when he faces a tough situation (“hit him with your groin”).
Dear audio diary: Today I may have accidentally registered myself as a sex offender! WHAT IS WRONG WITH MY LIFE
- T-Rex
I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this.....
…but whenever I read a post from this series (which, by the way, is freaking awesome) I come away with it having more love for the Diaz style and more confidence that he is going to beat GSP.
I feel like that isn’t exactly what you intended but it is what I get out of them.
Thanks man.
It’s not exactly what I intended, but depending on GSP’s gameplan, I agree with you. Specifically, I don’t see GSP having much of a chance striking with Nick unless he makes him seriously afraid of the takedown.
I think my point originally was partly to understand why every single fighter Nick has recently faced has fallen into the same traps, gassing out and getting battered on the feet, as though on one ever looks at tape of his previous fights. In understanding that, I hoped to figure out how a fighter could actually go about winning the striking battle. Turns out it’s even more of a daunting task than I thought. It’s not just head movement or not swinging 100% on every punch, it’s footwork, conditioning…well, you read the article. In any case, I may dislike him, but it’s hard not to respect Diaz’s skills more and more with each entry.
Great stuff to gzl5000
I was actually looking forward to this. I hope you find stuff to do. Perhaps breaking down Dominick Cruz’ striking or something.
This was a great series.
I agree that you should do something just like this for another fighter. I’d read it no matter who you chose to showcase.
I really liked this whole series. In reading more of your comments in this one though you keep mentioning things GSP does that do not work against southpaws. If he had done this things previously against southpaws I would be concerned, but I think it is pretty obvious GSP knows he has to change things up against a southpaw and he has the ability to do so. You cannot look at techniques used against othrodox fighters or shorter fighters as talking points because those techniques were done that way to fit who he was fighting against at the time.
It’s a fact of technique that the way a fighter stands affects how you have to attack them. Nick Diaz poses classic southpaw problems, and relative to most of MMA welterweights, has rather good boxing.
Not to mention, the only southpaw I can remember GSP fighting in the UFC is Frank Trigg, who ain’t exactly Sugar Ray. He may or may not have faced a few back in his URCC days, but 1. Those were 8 years ago, 2. Against lower quality competition, and 3. GSP used his wrestling quite a lot then. I’m sure he’s trained against southpaws, I’m sure he knows what to do against southpaws, but applying it in-cage is a different story, particularly against someone with Nick Diaz’s peculiar skills and frame.
I agree with the idea that the southpaw stance can cause some problems, just not at looking at thechnique he has used to point out how he cant fight a southpaw. He obviously will not throw his strikes the same. It is hard to say how well he will adjust his striking since we have not seen him against a lefty.
True.
Based on what we know about each right now, I’d pick Diaz to out-strike GSP unless he’s really aggressive with his wrestling. GSP’s ability to adapt is a wildcard, so I guess we’ll see. We pretty much know exactly what Nick will do, the only change he’s made in recent years was to switch to orthodox in the second fight against KJ.
You dislike Diaz…yet essentially made a literary hype video for him that would give any “smart” fan a lot of curiosity on a foregone conclusion (GSP’s victory).
Enjoyed what youdid here. Hope you delve into another anomalous fighter’s style… or provide a counter series with GSP to bring the series full circle.
You need to respect the baby... 'cause life is precious... and God... and the Bible.
You dislike Diaz…yet essentially made a literary hype video for him that would give any "smart" fan a lot of curiosity on a foregone conclusion (GSP’s victory).
That was indeed part of my point, to challenge the “GSP by anything he wants” talk (not that there’s a ton of it). By pointing out what Diaz is good at and how daunting a task it is to fight him, I’m hoping someone will finally scout him and at least not make the mistakes of swinging for the fences and covering up while moving straight back.
Enjoyed what youdid here. Hope you delve into another anomalous fighter’s style… or provide a counter series with GSP to bring the series full circle.Thanks! I doubt I’ll do one on GSP, unique or unusual styles and fighters interest me most. I did do a post on GSP’s lead superman combo a few months ago. I had a suggestion to analyze Dominick Cruz, I also thought about doing a feature on the shovel hook, but we’ll see! I appreciate the support.
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