Nate Marquardt's Trainer Sees TRT Issue in Black and White
by Mike Fagan on Jun 29, 2011 3:30 PM EDT
in UFC News
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There's still a lot of unpacking to do with this Nate Marquardt story. While Marquardt broke his silence and detailed his use of testosterone replacement therapy, there now appears to be an issue with New Jersey that needs sorting out. The future of his fighting career - he was fired by the UFC and is currently serving an indefinite suspension in Pennsylvania -- hangs in a precarious balance.
There's also a list of people directly and indirectly connected to this story. One of those people is Marquardt's trainer, Trevor Wittman, who objects to the use of TRT in response to natural drops in testosterone production.
"To me, if your testosterone levels are getting lower over the years, that's normal. You're getting older," Wittman told MMA Fighting's Ben Fowlkes. "If you have a 21-year-old come into this with those naturally high testosterone levels, and then you've got an older fighter -- I'll just pick an age, say, 35 -- who has lower testosterone levels, the advantages of the older man are knowledge, experience.
"But if we make a 35 or 40-year-old fighter as strong as a 21-year-old, to me, that's cutting corners."
While Wittman believes Marquardt has been honest with him, that he really believed he needed TRT treatment, Wittman feels he needs to be more proactive with his fighters going forward.
"I look at it as white and black, like you're still doing an enhancing kind of thing," Wittman said. "But if the doctor okays it, does that make it right? I don't know. That's something I can't explain, but I'll tell you what I'm doing now, and that's sit down with every fighter I deal with and find out if they're seeing a doctor and for what reason. If it's anything that has to do with enhancing, then I'm going to step away."
These are big words from Wittman, who obviously has his gym's reputation to maintain. That gym is now dealing with its second steroid-related scandal within the twelve months. In August of last year, Shane Carwin was named in a federal investigation for allegedly receiving shipments of various steroids from Applied Pharmacy Services in 2006..
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Read this interview earlier
Quite interesting to see that Whitman is against it, and his quality reasoning why.
"I can be friends with anybody. Man. Woman. Cat. Dog. Fish..... Alien." -Rampage
While I think Trevor Whittman offers a sane, logical explanation . . . I prefer BJ Penn's vitriol
We need more fighters like Penn (or Nick Diaz) public condemning their fellow fighters for cheating (or cutting corners.)
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
Penn
was great.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Jun 29, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I missed it.
was there a story here?
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Jun 29, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
All this testosterone replacement therapy stuff is total BS. A true martial artist would never consider cheating! If you can’t do it of carbs, fats, proteins and vitamins and minerals you’re weak! Fighters on ’roids = blue collar crime. Coaches of fighters on ’roids = white collar crime. Everyone has to come together and get this “ped” cancer out of our sport!
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Jun 29, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
I wish he wasn't so diplomatic all the time.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on Jun 29, 2011 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
It's true
You never know how he really feels.
1. Anderson Silva is waiting for you to punch him.
2. That guy is Anderson Silva.
3. Don't fucking punch that guy.
by Chris Barton on Jun 29, 2011 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I loved what BJ had to say
I also like what Wittman said but let’s see if he backs his talk up with action.
"What the ancients called a clever fighter is one who not only wins, but excels in winning with ease."
by dedstrk316 on Jun 29, 2011 3:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
No brainer there. BJ Penn was always clean and almost always the best.
If heavyweight isn't the toughest division in the UFC, then why doesn't someone that can kick their asses move to it? They don’t even have to cut weight!!
by crizzy on Jun 29, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Well
Ben Askren is probably also motivated by the potential of a huge fight.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
Props to Whitman
Glad he’s truthful about what he thinks, instead of just having a stock answer since its one of his friends/fighters who got in trouble.
I highly doubt that any of these fighters need extra testosterone..especially when you look at the guys who have used it, or are rumored to have used it:
This is just becoming a new, easier (although maybe its not as easy as the fighters thought) way for fighters to get an edge
Why is it that I look at this photo montage and come away thinking ring girls are using TRT?
Why didn't I know about this stuff in '95?
I don’t know, but I came away thinking that Todd Duffee looks like someone who is lacking testosterone. I’m happy that modern medicine can help him fix that.
That's a muscle, called m. serratus anterior.
by Chris P. Bacon on Jun 30, 2011 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions
That is not the serratus anterior
The area they are talking about is about 6" – 8" directly below his left nipple, almost mid-way between his nipple and the waistband of his trunks.
You can see it a little more clearly in this picture.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Jul 2, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions
we'll see
if he actually cuts anyone out of his gym. it’s a nice statement. let’s see the action tho
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on Jun 29, 2011 4:05 PM EDT reply actions
i would like to see
Someone do a post about how TRT is fast becoming the preferred method of doing steroids in MMA, and try to find out how many fighters have applied for exemptions. I would also like to see someone try to get DW’s opinion of TRT and whether or not he feels fighters are using/abusing the policy to use steroids. Maybe ask some fighters not on it what their opinion is. I would also like to know if the fighters on it are all seeing the same doctor/s?
It sounds like Nevada told Nate he had to cease TRT for 8 weeks after the fight and submit to 3 blood tests. I wonder if they were trying to figure out whether or not his normal levels were truly
abnormally low? When they saw his normal levels did not require TRT they denied his exemption? Just wondering…
Are there any alternative ways to treat low T besides TRT?
I have a feeling DW is going to get forced into taking a tough stance on TRT sooner or later if it fighters keep using this as their excuse for failing tests.
by TREY JACKSON on Jun 29, 2011 4:14 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
“It sounds like Nevada told Nate he had to cease TRT for 8 weeks after the fight and submit to 3 blood tests. I wonder if they were trying to figure out whether or not his normal levels were truly
abnormally low?”
That is most certainly what they were doing. Seeing if his testosterone-levels would show up as too low if left unmedicated.
"A belt only covers two inches of your ****and the rest you need to back up on your own." Royce Gracie (allegedly...I just read it somewhere and thought it was cool for my sig!)
I suspect Dana White would deflect the question onto the athletic commissions per “business as usual.”
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
I never really put together that Grudge had the two highest profile PED cases outside of Sonnen
Doesn’t mean anything probably, but it’s worth noting.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
Actually
I have posted several times that I have a friend who is a pro fighter out of Grudge. It means everything that these cases are out in the open. My friend has told me repeatedly that the use of PEDs at Grudge is out of control. take it for what it’s worth, but it seems to be true.
This is the dangerous part
Shad went from Grudge to Bigfoot’s team. Ummmmmm
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Head Kick Legend
My friend has told me repeatedly that the use of PEDs at Grudge is out of control. take it for what it’s worth, but it seems to be true.
I think their use could be classified as “out of control” at every high level MMA gym (or boxing or powerlifting or NFL clubhouse or…).
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
Never send sheep to kill a wolf.
by The American Ronin on Jul 2, 2011 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Actually it is worth noting
Colorado state is home to a lot of professional endurance athletes like cyclists, marathon runners, rock climbers, etc
The sports medicine and physical therapy industries here are big. It is reasonable to speculate that sketchy physicians can make a lot of money being frivolous with their prescriptions.
Colorado, a potential PED Mecca
I wonder what Subo thinks about that.
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Head Kick Legend
Doesn't refute anything he said.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
by Neil Manich on Jun 29, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Whitman's an idiot
If he’s asking if it’s “right” for a physician to prescribe therapy. The short answer is, “Yes.” Absolutely. Physicians are legally and morally responsible for administering the health of their patients, so if a physician prescribes a medication, they’re legally and morally obliged to make sure it’s a good treatment program.
If Marquardt had a lousy physician, or a corrupt physician, that is a separate issue. Which, hey, shocker, the issue isn’t black and white. To treat it like it is black and white is to put people’s health at risk. Which is insipid, at best, and actively hurtful, at worst.
by Christopher Bradley on Jun 30, 2011 1:05 AM EDT reply actions
could someone explain this?
I have a question regarding TRT. If someone has low testosterone and they need to receive injections or pills to increase their levels, why are the treatments raising their levels so high they are failing drug tests? It seems like the doctors would be able to prescribe the exact dosage to just bring their T count to normal levels. Why are they raising the levels so high? Are there any negative side effects to having such high levels of T? I would not have any problem with a person getting trteatment to bring their T levels up to a normal range. I believe this may be part of the reason the commmissions are having a problem with these guys. It they are receiving TRT and their level was just barely above normal levels, the commission would probably not be concerned as they would know the reason it was up slightly. BUT being on TRT does not seem like a proper excuse to have T levels that’s are 8-16x normal (I think that is what I read about Sonnens test). I would think that any doctor who would prescribe this type of treatment would also closely monitor the levels to make sure he is only bringing the patient to a normal range and the patient wasn’t using the treatment as a legal way to be on roids.
by TREY JACKSON on Jun 30, 2011 1:42 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
Sonnen had high levels also. Can someone contact one or more of the commissions and ask what levels are accepted from a fighter that has received the TRT exemption? Does the commission still require them to be in a normal range and only make an exception when they are just slightly over due to the treatment? OR do they accept any level from someone that has the exemption?
Again – my personal belief is that TRT should have no affect on the tests if the fighter is only trying to achieve normal levels with the treatment.
by TREY JACKSON on Jun 30, 2011 10:23 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
From what I understand the reason the T levels are high is
Because they are taking more than needed to get the extra advantages in training. I see some doctor shopping going on here. What I don’t understand is that from all the information i read it sounds like the NJAC was helping Nate cycle off which is baffling to me. Is the Commission caring about fighters taking PEDs or do they only care about them if it’s in there system at fight time? I wish there was out-of-competition testing being done or at least anyone who is on TRT get tested during training camp to make sure they aren’t taking extra T and just getting there levels down by fight time. And if a fighter has the TRT exemption why would they have to stop taking it weeks before a fight? Should there levels be the same tho whole time and not need to go off the T?
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
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