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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

Barnett_rogers

Jonathan Snowden takes a Minute-by-Minute look at Josh Barnett vs Brett Rogers at SBNation.

11 months ago Royce_09_tiny Nate Wilcox 33 comments 0 recs  | 

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why in the world does this fight need a minute by minute breakdown?

by dbcb on Jun 19, 2011 6:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Minute 1 Barnett gets a takedown
Minutes 2-5 Barnett gets Mount
Minute 6 Barnett gets a takedown
Minute 7-8 Barnett get’s head and arm choke.

The end.

by av1o3 on Jun 19, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I thought it was really interesting. Barnett was working hard and really slowing Rogers down. One thing to consider is how well he moved and how quick he was.

by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 19, 2011 8:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Barnett is looking more dangerous than ever. Honestly, does anyone think that Fedor would have been able to beat him back then? I mean, how is Fedor stopping that takedown? Barnett’s whole career would have been different if he was the one to dethrone Fedor, jesus what a mistake!

Barnett should be able to take out Overeem IMO, and Big Foot might be big problems though. Barnett is a legit threat to everything right now, and it’s good to see it. It’s just too bad he’s a steriod user, really dampens everything he does.

by p123 on Jun 19, 2011 7:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Really?

Rogers has terrible take down defense and ground game. I think Overeem can keep this standing and Fedor has the skills to get back up if he got taken down, maybe even throw a sub up.

It was a dominating performance by Barnett but i’m really surprised he couldn’t finish it when he had mount for most of the first round.

by av1o3 on Jun 19, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don’t think so. You could practically see him straining to maintain discipline. He was working to create the sure thing.

by Jonathan Snowden on Jun 19, 2011 8:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

agreed

he looked for a keylock here or a choke there but really didn’t get after much in the first round in terms of submissions. He let Rogers attempt to muscle his way out and wear himself out.

aka BuckeyedBear34

by T.P. Grant on Jun 19, 2011 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think it takes a wrestler to stop Barnett really. I think the only guys stopping him from making it a grappling match is Cain / Brock / Carwin and probably JDS. Overeem is too plodding IMO…

by p123 on Jun 19, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Plodding is sometimes helpful in takedown defense

and that’s the case for Overeem. I find when people are more active on their feet it’s easier to catch them off guard. Overeem may be plodding but he always has a good base and is able to sprawl well.

by av1o3 on Jun 19, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

its hard to be light on your feet and be grounded at the same time.

"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."

" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com

by the-gentle-way on Jun 19, 2011 8:27 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I disagree. Good footwork has built in TDD, look at Edgar/ JDS / Machida / Anderson. Good footwork forces you to lunge in , and an improper shot is much harder to pull off. JDS for example could cause big problems with his footwork IMO.

by p123 on Jun 19, 2011 9:40 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Not for everybody

like the gentle way said you can’t be grounded when you’re light on your feet. Edgar has good TDD because people tend to forget he’s had very good wrestling before he improved his striking. Look at someone like Chuck Liddell who was a plodding fighter, the dude was the first guy to be known for his Sprawl n Brawl style.

I tend that people who are too light on their feet can be caught off balance easier than a plodding fighter.

by av1o3 on Jun 19, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, I would think that Barnett would want to make some serious headway at repairing the problems he’s facing in various state commissions. If, as some say, he isn’t currently able to get licensed in some states he’s going to find limited opportunities in the near future. It will be interesting to see where Strikeforce finally schedules the next round of this protracted “tournament”.

.....

by Scabby Knuckle on Jun 19, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well

he’d actually have to appear at said states hearings to fix that.

Bob Sapp vs. Rodrigo Nogueira Bob "The Beast" Sapp is 400 pounds, and if 300 pounds of it aren’t pure steroids, then someone has got to be fucking kidding. -SeanBaby

by Chris Hall on Jun 19, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

It was a good breakdown.

“Barnett appears to consider a number of holds – a goofy Gene LeBell style neck crank using his leg, a top wristlock, but in the end decides to hold position and make Rogers work. At 3:21 Rogers scrambles for thew first time, escaping to his knees. Barnett is quick enough, however, to maintain control.”

It noted some stuff I couldn’t even notice.

Thanks Snowden.

The Internets: Where there are no girls and men become children.

by Unabomberman on Jun 19, 2011 7:36 PM EDT reply actions  

catch wrestling my ass.

"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."

" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com

by the-gentle-way on Jun 19, 2011 7:41 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

take down , mount , submit

It doesn’t get more Grace Jiu Jitsu than that. How could that be catch? Catch never trained the mount. You already had them pinned if you had mount. The game was over.
  I think catch is cool. The leg locks and such, but bjj is what he was doing. Makes sense, parson is a black belt under the machados and barnett just got his black belt from Paulson.

"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."

" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com

by the-gentle-way on Jun 19, 2011 11:11 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

*Paulson

"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."

" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com

by the-gentle-way on Jun 19, 2011 11:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

That makes him all the more dangerous.

by castleeb on Jun 19, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

no doubt

It got a smile and an eye roll out of me when I heard them talking about catch and then Josh just went out there and did a Roger Gracie impression.
josh looked great though. He is one of the best in the world.

"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."

" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com

by the-gentle-way on Jun 20, 2011 12:46 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

i have always said it.

I don’t give a shit about juice. I am of the belief it is good for the sport. I like to see fighters fight long prosperous careers. Roids heal injuries, increase training time and extend your prime athletic years.
 Plus ……. josh did last night what we all wish we could do……. Remove that microphone from Gus’s hand.

"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."

" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com

by the-gentle-way on Jun 20, 2011 1:58 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

i am a big fan.

"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."

" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com

by the-gentle-way on Jun 20, 2011 1:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

As am I

ditto on PEDs btw
HGH has no ill effects, why it’s illegal is mind boggling to me.

Learn JiuJitsu.

by RolloTomasi on Jun 20, 2011 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

a huge dome . see: bonds, barry

"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."

" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com

by the-gentle-way on Jun 20, 2011 11:16 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

The mount's in catch

It depends on the rules. A lot of matches could end by pin or submission, sometimes it was pin only or submission only, there were even some matches that ended by flying fall (ippon).

The mount developed more in the carnivals especially when private matches got setup with widely varying rulesets sets due to the gambling involved. It also continued to develop when it mixed in with Judo when it went to Japan through Gotch and Rikidozan.

People need to get over this notion of grappling purity. Europeans have been competitively wrestling since the late middle ages and when the merchant navy routes opened up for the Silk and Spice trade, european styles of wrestling (which a lot of the navy trained in) encountered the indigenous styles of India, North Africa, Persia and so on. A guy like Billy Robinson will be the first to tell you this. Similarly if you asks legends of BJJ like Renzo Gracie or Rigan Machado, they’ll tell you the influence of Catch on Maeda but also how their own games become influenced by the likes of Wrestling and Sambo.

BJJ and Catch is more a difference of mentality and strategy then it is about style.

by KJ Gould on Jun 20, 2011 8:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

your last two paragraphs i couldnt agree more with.

also I never found an instance of mount being taught in catch wrestling books of yesteryear.

But , are you gonna stand there and tell me that Josh wasn’t using classic bjj strategy? Is that where you wanna be when Jesus comes back? lying to the gentle way?

"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."

" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com

by the-gentle-way on Jun 20, 2011 11:15 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Unless you include books by Funaki and Sakuraba

There hasn’t really been an authentic Catch instructional book put out since the early 1900’s. When it went to the carnivals from the 1920’s, Carnies weren’t in the habit of publishing all their secrets into a book but rather passed it down to the next generation of those they trusted, or those they had groomed for succession.

What Barnett did could be argued as a classic MMA strategy, because the rules of MMA have been influenced largely by BJJ (obviously). Barnett looking for mount in No Gi grappling competitions as well is a product of the ruleset, and what scores points. In MMA the mount opens up ways of striking with both hands through Ground ‘n’ Pound as well.

Going to mount makes sense but if you want a specific difference, Barnett’s use of side control is more wrestling based than BJJ based. Instead of having his knees up close to block Rogers’ hips and near arm like you would in BJJ, Barnett has his hip side leg sprawled down and he’s driving the upper part of his chest through Rogers to try and pin him in place and ride heavy. He has his arm side leg up to block, but he’s also turning Rogers head away and putting pressure on which makes it incredibly difficult for Rogers (or anyone) to turn and shrimp in to regain half-guard or guard.

Also the one time he was in Half-Guard his hips were low again and he used what he calls a power-half grip (as it’s similar mechanically to a power-half nelson) to grind and drive across Rogers neck and face.

In this instance a BJJ player or a Catch Wrestler has the same destination, but a slightly different approach to getting there.

by KJ Gould on Jun 20, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

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