Dana White Talks Boxing and MMA Co-Existing in Wake of Pacquiao vs. Mosley
by Brent Brookhouse on May 9, 2011 9:00 AM EDT
in UFC News
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This weekend saw the combat sports world turn its attention fully to boxing for one of the few weekends a year. There is plenty of attention on boxing throughout the rest of the year (despite constant statements to the contrary) but on the few fights that the sport's biggest superstars take every year it draws huge attention. The lack of a competing UFC event that weekend, or even in the few weekends following, meant boxing had the stage to itself. Dana White was in attendance at the bout between Manny Pacquiao and "Sugar" Shane Mosley and had the following to say about boxing to MMA Junkie:
"I think boxing and the UFC can coexist," White told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com) after the pay-per-view show. "I'm a big fight fan. When there's a good boxing match, I want to see it."
White wasn't the only prominent UFC official in attendance; co-owners Lorenzo Fertitta and Frank Fertitta were seated alongside him. It's no conflict of interest, the crew insisted. There's no competition between the UFC and "The Sweet Science."
"Hell, no," White said. "We don't look at it like we're in competition. People who are real fight fans are [expletive] fight fans, whether it's MMA or it's boxing."
Top Rank, the promoter for last weekend's fight, has tried to learn lessons from the the dominant force that is the UFC. Making moves like airing some undercard fights prior to the pay-per-view on Showtime Extreme and offering an online stream of the fight with multiple feeds are both moves clearly inspired by the UFC's approach to their events.
President Todd duBoef also had this to say about the expectation of fighters:
"I think one of the things that I really like about Dana is that he has a real black-and-white perspective, which I think is really good," duBoef said. "I actually like when he has a stance and takes a position like, 'Hey, if you're going to fight for me, you're going to fight and put on a show. You're going to give it your all.' I think that perspective is really good. When you see a guy like Jorge Arce banging away and banging away, staying in there as much as he was out of the fight, and you think he's going to lose to the bigger guy, and he comes back in rounds 10, 11 and 12 and knocks the guy out, it's fantastic. I think those types of guys that give back to the fans are what I want to get back to.
"I think we ended up a little bit with boxing businessmen and annuity fighters. I think that model has to get back to prizefighting. Our sport was called prizefighting, and those guys gave it their all and gave fans a show. That's important to me. That's what you see a lot in the UFC. It's what Dana has ingrained in the fanbase, and it's what they expect the fighter to do."
...
In duBoef's eyes, boxing is not dying. It's not on life support. It's not even considering a trip to the emergency room.
And the rivalry with the UFC, with its inferior strikers and crowd-baffling ground game, that's a thing of the past, too. duBoef realizes MMA is here to stay, and he respects the leaders of the new movement.
"There's mutual respect between Dana, Lorenzo, Frank and myself," duBoef said. "We know each other, and we have a relationship. I think we kind of learn from each other. I think we kind of pick up on ideas that we're doing.
"We're both in the entertainment business."
As boxing changes and adapts to a world with the UFC as the combat sports king (especially in the pay-per-view arena) it has made nice adjustments and continues to draw solid numbers despite a meme that developed during a few down years. A quick search for ratings info for boxing events turned up these numbers:
HBO:
June 6, 2010 Cotto/Foreman (HBO World Championship Boxing) - 1.6 million
November 5, 2010 Guerrero/Escobedo, Judah/Mathysse (HBO Boxing After Dark) - 766,000
November 20, 2010 Martinez/Williams (HBO World Championship Boxing)- 1.3 million
January 29, 2011 Bradley/Alexander (HBO World Championship Boxing) - 1.345 million
February 19, 2011 Donaire/Montiel (HBO Boxing After Dark) - 1.020 million
April 16, 2011 Berto/Ortiz (HBO World Championship Boxing) - 1.5 millionESPN Friday Night Fights:
January 7, 2011 - Prodvonikov/Herrera - 545,000
January 14, 2011 - Manfredo/Eduard - 788,000
January 28, 2011 - Arreola/Abell - 734,000
Boxing is learning to move away from PPV for every fight of importance and it is paying dividends.
White is correct that the sports can co-exist and, if anything, boxing has gotten some very good benefits from the UFC showing just how well things can be done.
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Boxing is far from dead. In fact, if boxing had a commish in the style of Dana who had matchmaking ability, MMA would be back to fighting in 4k capacity ballrooms within 5 years, and thats coming from a huge MMA fan.
You know how Dana was really pumped about doing 50k in Canada for the GSP fight? You realize boxing in Europe does that 4 or 5 times a year and has been for years?
you do realize
that while that is indeed a fact, it has nothing to do with the fact that in no way shape or form will mixed martial artists be fighting in front of a crowd of 4k in a ballroom, regardless of who is the commish for boxing. the top 10 p4p fighters could retire today and that still wouldnt happen.
no. just, no.
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on May 9, 2011 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions
Here is the deep dark secret of MMA: as a whole, the fights suck. I love MMA, I love the chess match aspects of it, but by and large, the fights are 75% awful letdowns. If you look at the top 10 UFC fights of all time from that show a few years back, probably 8 out of 10 were one sided ass kicking blowouts. Everyone enjoyed watching Manny blow out Hatton a few years back, but the idea of that making anyone’s top 10 anything list is absurd. The thing holding back boxing is the awful politics of the sport, with HBO and the promoters screwing the pooch on a weekly basis. Ask yourself this: if HBO, as a commish with total power over the sport, put together a card featuring Klitschko, Manny/Floyd, Morales/Barrera IV, and Canelo Alvarez, all on one card, how many buys would that do? 3 mil? 4? 5? IS UFC capable of putting together even a 2.5 million buy card? Boxing isnt dead, it just is sleeping because the best fights dont get made. Put together Floyd and Manny and watch them do 3 mil buys without breaking a sweat.
I agree with much of this, but two points interconnected:
1. All the fighters you name save Alvarez are in their 30’s and on the downside of their careers.
2. That’s where the issues with promoters and TV are worst I think- it makes it harder than ever before to make big stars.
by Brendan Welsh-Balliett on May 9, 2011 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Here’s another deep, dark secret of Boxing: as a whole, the fights suck. I love Boxing, I love the chess match aspects of it, but by and large, the fights are 95% awful letdowns.
“If you look at the top 10 UFC fights of all time from that show a few years back, probably 8 out of 10 were one sided ass kicking blowouts "
1. Fail
2. Fail
3. Fail
You obviously have a limited and narrow view on what you call MMA or should I say “UFC” for you. Research your position before you post shit like this in the future. For starters go back and watch PRIDE!!
by JONBONESJONES79 on May 9, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
95% are awful letdowns?
Let’s just look over the past month at the major broadcast fights:
Morales/Maidana = Amazing fight
Berto/Ortiz = Amazing fight
JuanMa Lopez/Salido = Very good fight with shocking upset
Perez/Darchinyan = Shaping up well if not one sided before a foul sent it to the cards
Pacquiao/Mosley = Disappointing
Then you have all the other major fights of the month that weren’t the “big name” stuff that people may have caught on the easy to find streams where most of those fights were okay to great also.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 9, 2011 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Sarcasm font broken . . .
I was kidding. If you read his/her post (Hutchy) I was manipulating his earlier post.
by JONBONESJONES79 on May 9, 2011 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions
mma is in its infancy, boxing has been big time for decades
big difference brother, in fact huge.
Jonny Bench called.
by Sterling Archer on May 9, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
No son the best boxing match ever was "The WAR"
That was 3 rounds of non stop brawling, sweet science and blood. It was the best fight of all time. oh your right if there was one president of a WBF, (world boxing Federation and his name was Anad Black, there is no limit to what boxing could do.
I've got something to say; it better to burn out than to fade away!!!
Walking on the beach and cleaning my sandles of all that excess Bisping.
PS3 Network is OFF. Have you checked your Credit Card today?
Klitschko
is popular in Germany no doubt, but he can’t be on every card. Provide me some evidence for 50K shows a few times each year. For you to say that MMA would be back to fighting in 4K arenas is a complete joke.
by JONBONESJONES79 on May 9, 2011 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I don’t think 50k happening is “routine” for either sport.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 9, 2011 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions
For the US? no. For overseas? Maybe routine is strong, but Kessler/Calzaghe drew 90k. Ninety……..thousand. Hatton in his prime, the Kllts, Kessler in his home country, the Prince is his prime, Bute in Canada……any of those could or have drawn 50k overseas when matched properly
One has nothing to do with the other
Boxing and MMA draw from different pools of people, there is very little crossover in terms of fans of the two sports. The success of one will not have a negative impact on the other.
A completely false dicotomy.
www.hottopicwithphil.com
That is what MMA fans tell themselves. The fact that Chuck Lidell sells a zillion PPVs and Jon Fitch cant draw flies if he was dead by the side of the road, that has NOTHING to do with fans looking to fill the void left by boxing’s refusal to put together the big fights?
That's not true at all
Last year HBO did a study/poll and found there’s only about a 5% crossover between MMA and boxing fans.
They aren’t drawing from the same pool of viewers, what one does has little impact on the other. You seem to be implying that there is a direct relationship between MMA’s success and boxing’s supposed decline when there is no evidence to support that notion.
www.hottopicwithphil.com
I've seen every MMA event imaginable in at least the past 5 years...
Including watching old Pride/UFC shows…
I’ve only watched Pacquiao and Mayweather box during that time.
Not many of my friends are MMA fans, but zero of them are boxing fans.
In summary, I agree.
Fitch is awesome, I don't care what you think...
Bones Jones, future greatest MMAist ever.
I think that has much more to do with the fact that people tune in for fighters they find exciting than anything involving boxing vs. mma
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 9, 2011 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Not sure about that, but there’s no question boxing wouldn’t be seen as being dead if there was one prominent promoter that can matchup all the best fighters against each other.
Boxing wouldn't be seen as dead
If anyone who said that had any clue what they were talking about.
www.hottopicwithphil.com
But don’t you agree with me that boxing would be better off if there was one prominent promoter that could match the very best against the very best without any BS interferring? I mean, why the hell is Pacquiao stuck fighting guys nearing 40 year old in their retirement bouts?
There’s a FUCKload of boxers out there. And Pacqiuao is fighting guys like Margarito and Moseley because people are going to pay anyway. I could fight him and get 1.1 million buys. It’d be a dream for one organization to house that many boxers out there.
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.com
I know. But as you said, Pacquiao draws well against anyone, so why stick with well-known guys that are way past their prime? Isn’t there ANYONE in his weight class that is at the top of his form?
Well. He drew about half a million less against Clottey than more well known fighters. So the answer to why is, something like $25,000,000 in PPV sales
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 9, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
It was also at a bigassmuthafuckin stadium. And if there’s anything Jerry Jones is good at, it’s making money so I know he promoted the hell out of that fight.
As for anyone in his division, it’s more like he set the bar so high that boxers need to STEP THE FUCK UP instead of jabbing their way out for safety. That isn’t to say Pacqiuao is a KO artist but his athleticism is so far superior that people wanna see how amazing he is.
If he fights Marquez (please please please) it’ll do a lot more numbers because I think Marquez is MUCH more respected than Margarito is in Mexico. I’d prefer him NOT to fight Cotto and Sergio Martinez is too big.
Oh yea then there’s Floyd Mayweather……………..
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.com
Sure, but there has to be a better balance between being well known and being a great fighter (still). Say what you want about the UFC, but they’ll rarely put a guy in a title fight simply because of his name recognition, regardless of whether he deserved it or not. It’s usually the exact opposite. By name recognition alone, there’s no way Shields would’ve been in a title fight with GSP just over a week ago, but there’s no question he deserved to be in there with GSP considering what he’s done over the last 5-6 years. I feel as though the UFC generally puts who deserves it more above who can we sell more, whereas we’ve seen with recent Pacquiao fights that it’s all about who will sell more, and not necessarily who deserves it more or who will make it a better fight.
It’s easy for us here on B.E. to say that boxing isn’t dead because we have the knowledge to know better, but I know many people (casual fans) that think boxing is on life support or dead. What can or is boxing doing for casual fans to prove otherwise?
Check out the C&D Channel on YouTube for MMA reviews, predictions, analysis, and other MMA related content.
Money
If you could put “Boxing Is Dead” vs. “Boxing Isn’t Dead” on PPV, you’d make a killing.
by Brendan Welsh-Balliett on May 9, 2011 9:18 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
"And the rivalry with the UFC, with its inferior strikers and crowd-baffling ground game, that's a thing of the past, too."
Que? That’s MMA Junkie’s perspective, right?
Yes
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 9, 2011 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Odd indeed.
The notion that MMA has inferior ‘striking’ to boxing is bullshit.
Inferior hand striking? Absolutely.
Inferior overall striking? It’s an impossible comparison since boxers can’t kick, knee, or elbow. Part of what I love about MMA is how there is such a broad range of techniques available at every range. Boxing techniques are obviously fantastic at ‘boxing range’, but I love watching fights in all ranges …. stepping outside and blistering a guy with kicks or closing the distance and clinching up for knees and elbows. That kind of thing is missing from boxing. The clinch and kicking range are ‘safety zones’ for a boxer.
Also the ground game comment
It shouldn’t be crowd baffling, but if it is, why is an MMA site presenting it as such?
I’m glad he’s not trying to pull Boxing fans anymore and saying how MMA is ten times better than Boxing. It’s 2 different styles, two different ways to appreciate it. And he knows better than to have a UFC event rival a Pacqiuao fight. If Super Six was much bigger than what was expected (unfortunately it wasn’t) it may have been another event the UFC would have to schedule around for.
Also, Pacqiuao kind of introduces fighters to the mainstream. Clottey hasn’t gotten a fight since he turtled up in Dallas but Cotto/Foreman did so well because despite Cotto getting worked, he at least came to fight against Pacqiuao. He developed a fanbase after that like Dan Hardy right after GSP.
People who are real fight fans are [expletive] fight fans, whether it’s MMA or it’s boxing.
Thank you
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.com
Clottey hasn’t gotten a fight since he turtled up in Dallas
That’s Clottey. He could get a fight any time if he wanted it. He had one scheduled a little while back that he bailed on. Clottey’s always been a bit difficult to negotiate with, as best I can tell.
Cotto/Foreman did so well because despite Cotto getting worked, he at least came to fight against Pacqiuao.
Honestly it did well more because Cotto is a very popular fighter from Puerto Rico who has always done very well, with or without Pacquiao. Also the novelty of the fight being at Yankee Stadium did help, but Cotto has a large fanbase and has for years. He’s a legit star fighter. Not a Pacquiao or Mayweather, but a legitimate star.
Bad Left Hook
"To the town of Agua Fria rode a stranger one fine day..."
A popular orthodox jew vs. a popular puerto rican in yankee stadium was…not a difficult sell.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 9, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
“Meanwhile, the boxing event’s co-feature saw Jorge Arce survive an early knockdown to come back and score a dramatic final-round stoppage of the previously undefeated Wilfredo Vazquez.
Unfortunately, the thrilling battle merited little more than a footnote in comparison to Pacquiao-Mosley.”
from that junkie article.thats just wrong arce becoming the first mexican to win at 4 weights and beat a puerto rican as well was big news.in fact if soto hadn’t pulled out that card would have been better then the majority of the ufc’s
that card would have been better then the majority of the ufc’s
You’re comparing apples and oranges. When you start measuring boxing cards against MMA cards I really have to question how you’re drawing a comparison.
www.hottopicwithphil.com
the planned card was
manny vs mosley
soto vs antillion in a repeat of last years foty
arce vs vasquez
pavilk vs lopez
that would have been a amazing card with three title fights and alot of fighters with name recognition .pity soto pulled out
That's fair, it would have been an amazing card
But it still doesn’t mean a comparison with a UFC card is in anyway valid. They aren’t the same thing and don’t operate under the same criteria.
www.hottopicwithphil.com
An MMA fighter destroys a boxer.
Yes I know it’s irrelevant and juvenile but it’s true. Besides, that’s the only Boxing Vs. MMA battle i’m interested.
'No matter what your ideology may be, once you believe you are in the possession of some infallible truth, you become a combatant in a religious war."
in a regular fight,
It’s likely that an MMA fighter wins due to his ability to change where the fight takes place.
GreenHouse
In a regular fight it’s likely that the guy with the weapon wins. In a regular fight it’s also likely that I try to poke your eyes out or rip your dick off.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 9, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
But..why would you……wanna do that?
They made a video game about Yakuzas. It’s called Yakuza. And it’s about Yakuza
gocyborg.com
by Krimson on May 9, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
JUST BLEED
@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on May 9, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana's quotes are fascinating.
Any possibility that Zuffa attempts to promote boxing down the road?
Interesting thought...
and one I had before, but I think they’re staying in the UFC business…and I say UFC business since Dana himself specifically said boxing and the U-F-C can co-exist, not necessarily using the phrase ‘mixed martial arts.’
by LikeTheWhiskey on May 9, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
of course Boxing and MMA can co exist
my only gripe is there only a couple of BIG BIG fights a year in boxing kinda like MMA but sense I understand that more I get hyped easier and think there are more.
IT just seems like there are more MMA cards of importance than Boxing
Twitter @MaZZM
http://www.mazzznet.com/
Dana definitely wants to coax Pacquiao into the UFC.
by SpinningFistback on May 9, 2011 1:34 PM EDT reply actions
MMA is the king of combat sports in North America. Boxing is far more popular worldwide.
I’m a pretty big MMA fan, but saying MMA is the king of combat sports is kind of like saying the NFL is the king of all sports when only looking at America and its comparison with MLB. MLB may not be king of America anymore. But it’s king in Japan, huge in Korea and in a bunch of latin American countries. The NFL is doing great, just like MMA is. But worldwide MMA isn’t what boxing is in terms of popularity.
do you buy into there being only a 5-7 percent crossover?
I am skeptical. I think the crossover would be higher than that. I’m pretty sure a lot of it is a generation gap, as the UFC is really hot among younger viewers, but not with their dads. Still, 5 percent is an awful low number considering both are combat sports. I watch both and enjoy both sports immensely … if anything, my initial interest in MMA lead to a much higher interest in all the combat sports.
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