More Details on the Nick Diaz vs. Jeff Lacy Boxing Match
by Brent Brookhouse on May 8, 2011 12:48 PM EDT
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Another day, another conversation with Jeff Lacy's manager, Joey Gilbert, regarding Lacy's planned boxing match with Nick Diaz. Gilbert contacted me wanting to clear up some of what he said in our last conversation.
"I don't know the exact amount that Nick Diaz is getting for this fight. What I do know is that Jeff took a small percentage less than Nick because he wanted the fight so badly." When I asked him if he could disclose Lacy's purse, Gilbert answered "Jeff will be making $150,000. Knowing that Jeff was only taking slightly less of the purse than Nick and knowing that Diaz was unlikely to take less than he did in his last MMA bout, I think it is easy to put the pieces together on roughly what his purse will be."
* * *
Allow me to speak for a bit on the business aspect of this fight. As I wrote yesterday, right now it looks like this fight is going the independent pay-per-view route. That would mean a show without the backing of HBO or Showtime. Now, it appears they're still hopeful that the fight will get picked up by Showtime given Diaz and Lacy both being "Showtime guys."
Without Showtime, the next best hope would be that Integrated Sports comes to the rescue. The PPV distributor of such must-see events as Zab Judah v. Kaizer Mabuza and Tomasz Adamek's bouts with Vinny Maddalone and Kevin McBride. Judah/Mabuza was a bout which Main Event Promotions won the purse bid to with a 50/50 split of a $50,000 purse (and what seemed to be a little agreed-upon gate and PPV money for Judah). These are not huge money fights, they're just bouts which need distribution and a little bit of a promotional push. They can also be pretty shameless in their attempts to sell a fight, but do have a general understanding of marketing to a specific audience (such as marketing to the Polish community for Adamek's bouts).
These are bouts where it's entirely realistic that they're hoping for 4,000 - 10,000 total buys. They do this by usually attaching a lower price tag of $30 for their PPV broadcasts. This is a good thing in terms of maybe being the final move that may convince someone to hit the "buy" button on their remote, but a bad thing in terms of almost cutting the revenue from each buy in half. At $30 a pop you're talking about needing probably close to 20,000 buys to come close to covering the purses of both men, possibly more depending on the take from the distributor and the cable companies. It also basically suffocates the chances of putting another decent name fighter on the card in hopes of grabbing some extra buys that way as the money is just not going to be there.
To put that in perspective, a recent HBO PPV between Erik Morales and Marcos Maidana, two well known and highly respected names in the boxing community drew less than 50,000 buys. Morales was on his last legs heading in, but still represented one of the biggest Mexican boxing stars of the last ten years and considered one of the greatest boxers of all time, and that fight simply did not sell. I have trouble thinking that a bout between Jeff Lacy, clinging to what's left of his career, and Nick Diaz, a man who has never been the central man in selling a PPV in his home sport, is going to do half of what Morales/Maidana was able to do.
Worst case scenario here is that Showtime doesn't make the save and Integrated Sports doesn't get involved. In that case you're looking at a very grim scenario with completely unassisted independent PPV. That could spell a disaster and lead to huge losses.
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but...
…Kenny Rice said on Inside MMA that Diaz would make millions of $ in boxing
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by Venom77 on May 8, 2011 12:55 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
brent, do you really think they want this fight with lacey or are they just using this for leverage with dana and the ufc?
i think this is all smoke and mirrors and in the next few weeks we will have gsp vs diaz at ufc 135.
I think they want the fight. I think they want to know how Diaz does and see if there is going to be a big money fight to be made. He only has the clause in his contract for this year. Basically, he has to take the fight this year or be put in a position where it can’t happen without him effectively walking away from sure money in MMA.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 8, 2011 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you underestimate the interest level in this fight...
among hardcore MMA fans. Didn’t the WEC pay per view do over 200,000 buys? That had to have been mostly hardcore fans. I think they get to the 50,000 mark just on the strength of the hardcore MMA fans.
Matt Janecek
MBA Candidate, 2011
An MBA on MMA: mixed martial arts thru the lens of business
mba-mma.blogspot.com
That would be shocking, and also mean that Diaz should probably walk away from MMA and into a career in boxing.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 8, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
And the WEC PPV did those buys with the UFC machine pushing it.
They will almost certainly not be pushing Diaz in a boxing match.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 8, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I will buy the
PPV, it will be my 1st boxing PPV in 10 years. Why? Because Nick Diaz is a fighter. He brings it every single fight and I respect that. He has never let me down win or lose and for that I will spend my $30.
If Nick wins and looks great, do we lose him to boxing? I see that the boxing clause expires this year.
exactly
People want to act like this a freak show fight when its not. Nick brings it everytime.
That doesn't make it not a sideshow fight
A fight can be both entertaining and irrelevant and freakish at the same time.
www.hottopicwithphil.com
by Worldisart on May 8, 2011 1:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think it will sell
decent not because its relevant but because it’s going to be entertaining and Nick has a track record. This PPV sales will be solely on Diaz and his name.
that doesnt make it a sideshow
Irrelevant fights happen all the time in the ufc. We arent talking about washed up baseball player vs boxer here
I guess that's what I meant...
I will also buy it and have not ordered a boxing pay per view in over 10 years.
Matt Janecek
MBA Candidate, 2011
An MBA on MMA: mixed martial arts thru the lens of business
mba-mma.blogspot.com
Affliction...
So didn’t affliction do 100k buys, with the #1 HWT in the world headlining a fairly stacked card? And that was MMA
This is a boxing card, headlined by the #5 or #6 welterweight, with a bunch of total bum boxers for the rest of the fights.
I don’t think you get more than 5-10k MMA hardcore fan buys. This NEEDS Showtime support.
by flingom on May 8, 2011 1:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Fedor has never been a draw. Ever. It would be great if Showtime backed this fight. I guess we might have a glimpse of their future plans with Striekforce depending on what they do.
Fedor has never been a draw. Ever.
Can you tell me when Diaz has been a PPV draw? I mean, he’s highly entertaining…but that doesn’t always mean that he’ll sell for anything on PPV.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 8, 2011 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions
thats interesting that they only have the boxing clause for this year only.
if diaz fought lacey and lost ( i know its a different sport ) do you think his stock in mma would go down so far that it could hinder a gsp superfight ?
I don’t really think it has a huge impact unless he looks AWFUL in losing. Because that would really undercut the “he’s a great striker” promotional angle.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 8, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
just one more question then i will stop bothering you
i feel diaz doesnt deserve a shot at gsp without one ufc win against say bj or fitch even kos, if u were the allmighty mr dana white would you give him a shot?
I'm not Brent but I'll answer
Yes I’d give him the shot. If your criteria for a title shot is a victory over one of those three guys than GSP is going to be without a fight for quite sometime.
Nick Diaz is a saleable commodity and would definitely create interest for a fight with the champ. He’s a warm body who hasn’t lost to GSP, put him in there.
www.hottopicwithphil.com
by Worldisart on May 8, 2011 1:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i would love to see gsp/diaz fight, i guess my problem is i grew up thinking the no1 contender should always fight the champ. so i would give fitch the fight but i see where a lot of fans dont want this fight.
It's measuring business concerns versus sporting concerns
Diaz is a fresh face and people will pay to see him fight GSP. Whether he’s earned it or not, it’s clear that it’s a fight that fans want to see, so why ruin it by putting him in against a guy like Fitch or Kos who will likely beat him?
www.hottopicwithphil.com
by Worldisart on May 8, 2011 1:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Koscheck got a title shot for snuggling with Daley.
Giving a shot to Diaz for knocking the same man out in one round is definitely defensible. Moreso than Serra after Lytle (reality show or not) or Dan Hardy after Swick and a debatable decision where Marcus Davis out-wrestled him.
I love getting my panties in a bunch over undeserved title shots, but I don’t think he NEEDS a win in the UFC before they put him up against the belt holder. Pettis wasn’t supposed to have a UFC win either and he’s far less credible than Diaz. I think it’s mostly that, by making all outside challengers fight in the UFC once, if they win then nobody can question that outside fighters are just as good as UFC boys. That marketing angle is no longer necessary.
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by pdl on May 8, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Kos got a shot after wrestling Daley to death.
Petis was getting a shot because he was the WEC champ.
Diaz is deserving..
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by ekc on May 8, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I’d give him a shot right now. I’d give him a shot if he beat BJ, Fitch of Kos. But he’s more than deserving of one right now between what he has done and what he would represent as GSP’s foe.
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by Brent Brookhouse on May 8, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I much rather see him fight GSP he would prolly make more money there than the maybe 180k in this boxing match
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Diaz goes from a great boxer against MMA guys that cant box to begin with
To a mediocre boxer against true practitioners of the sport….
You know Joe, Brandon Vera is considered to be a Heavyweight George St.Pierre because he just comes, comes, and comes again... -Mike Goldberg, UFC 57
Cheick Kongo looks like a cross between Evander Holyfield and pop singer Seal!
Melvin Guilard looks like a little Kevin Randelman!
-Mike "All black people look alike to me" Goldberg, UFC 62/64
Agree completely. I think the first time he does the hands out, come on try to hit me stuff he’ll probably find out how well a true boxer can hit an open target. I love Diaz in MMA. I dread what’s in store for him if he boxes a guy with years of experience in the ring.
by Scabby Knuckle on May 8, 2011 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Still think this is just Nick playing the game.
The best entry into UFC is a title fight…Pettis got one, then it got revoked, other champions coming in haven’t gotten title shots. Diaz has a good argument to deserve one, he’s on a hell of a run, albiet against slightly worse competition than what the UFC is.
So he’s using this for leverage to ensure he gets a good first fight and gets over into the UFC quck. And it’s working, Dana is apparently going to see Nick. If that’s true and he does, he’ll probably offer him 250k to fight for the title and a chunk of the pay per view. Probably a total of half a million if he loses an exciting fight and if he wins maybe double but at least $750k.
Dana probably knows that Diaz will box, and let himself be apart of a bit of a spectacle, and then come back to MMA and pick up where he left off. But it’ll be bad for his brand and Dana wants to make money while he can and Diaz is at an all time high in terms of marketability and putting on exciting fights. The time to get him in the UFC is now.
While with most fighters Dana could say “look, no you aren’t boxing, don’t be stupid, you want to be paid, it is in the UFC” and get them into line, Nick is a little different, a little more stubborn. I think it is working to his advantage this time, as his seemingly ridiculous assertion that he is boxing to get more money has his name on the tip of the presidents tongue.
Not many fighters can really sell a PPV.
We see this all the time within the realm of MMA. Guys who are regarded as popular within the sport often times garner only mediocre PPV numbers. There are really only a handful of guys who consistently deliver.
Diaz/GSP would likely do well because of GSP – that’s even with “hardcore” types harping about GSP’s risk aversion. I don’t think Diaz against any other top welterweight would do all that well, even with the UFC pushing it. In short, Diaz isn’t a huge draw in MMA, so it’s hard to see how he’ll sell a boxing card.
I’d be curious to see Diaz box. I’m far from an avid boxing fan, but it’s hard to imagine him being all that successful. He tends to take some pretty good shots. I would imagine that a professional boxer could better exploit his weaknesses than those he faces in MMA.
It appears that, if Diaz/Lacy goes down, the two fighters we’ll be in the minority by actually making money out of the deal.
Diaz is a pretty big draw.
He isn’t even in the UFC and at least 400,000 people watch him fight every time. I consider Diaz and Overeem to be the two biggest martial artists competing outside the UFC. They get a ton of attention and people want to watch them fight and they want to talk about them.
The return of Diaz to the UFC would be a pretty epic promotional angle. GSP/Diaz would unquestionably do better than Shields/GSP PPV wise, and that was close to a million.
He is a pretty big draw.
Against GSP w/ the Zuffa hype machine and the fact that regardless of GSP’s performances in the recent past, he is still a very, very big draw, Diaz will just add to the draw.
I would love to see Diaz box. I honestly have no idea how he would do against a Lacy/Vargas type boxer. I would also love to hear Diaz shut the front door about money, so I worry that if he makes his loot in the boxing ring, he leaves MMA. Yeah he’ll stop talking about money but MMA fans would lose a potentially great fighter. Because I honestly feel he would leave MMA and not look back………BTW, what are the marijuana policies/drug tests like in boxing today?
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by F'n Clownshoes on May 8, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions
He isn’t even in the UFC and at least 400,000 people watch him fight every time.
It’s worth noting that 400,000 watch him on cable, not PPV.
I consider Diaz and Overeem to be the two biggest martial artists competing outside the UFC.
Fedor Emelianenko is still probably the most well known non-UFC fighter. Overeem has a huge following in the Netherlands and now globally (not mainstream though), Nick Diaz is still pretty much only popular with hardcores.
I love when people pretend to know about who is a draw
Your telling me 500k people tune into watch Diaz by accident?
I’m suggesting that Diaz is not as big a draw as people suggest because his primary areas of exposure are hardcore channels, and that his numbers on Strikeforce are hard to judge.
There is not the same equivalence between a Strikeforce draw and a UFC draw because their business models are totally different. Strikeforce is on cable, while UFC is behind a pay per view wall. If there was a useful rule of thumb for converting a Strikeforce draw’s numbers to UFC draw numbers I’d be interested in seeing it.
showtime isnt some network or basic channel
Its a premium channel that many dont have. For an mma guy to draw 500k on it is impressiver
I keep using this fight as an example. But Andre Berto vs. Victor Ortiz drew 1.5 million viewers on HBO. Neither of them could draw for shit on PPV right now unless they had a superstar across the ring from them.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 8, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Its relative. Draw enough to purse 175k? yeah Berto could
Mosley vs Berto was drawing huge buzz in the boxing community. Thats a fight many people wanted to see. And that card was absolutely stacked.
Juan Ma is a huge draw
Brent, I think you’re underselling the interest of MMA fans.
Sites like this one have been talking about this potential fight for months, and fans have been interested. I also think there will be a contingent of hardcore boxing fans that will view this as some sort of “MMA vs boxing” spectacle and buy it. I’d go as far to say that some boxing fans who didn’t care that much about the Judah or Adamek fights might be more interested in this.
And I don’t think Diaz’ lack of PPV draw experience will have much of an impact. The guy has done some consistent ratings on Showtime, better than the average Strikeforce show I believe, and has delivered in terms of entertainment every time out. Showtime will most definitely pick this one up as they would be stupid not to. I’m going to go ahead and guess around 50-75k buys, and I think that’s conservative.
Of course, this is all assuming the fight takes place. While I personally would rather see GSP vs. Anderson Silva, I think the UFC is going to pursue GSP vs. Diaz. Despite the fact that Diaz wants to box and this is pretty much his only opportunity to do so, money talks, especially to Diaz who constantly complains about his purses. There is more money to be made for a big fight against GSP, on top of the fact that Diaz could conceivably raise his stock in this sport even if he loses, so long as he puts on an exciting fight, which he will.
So while I think a potential Diaz v. Lacy bout will bring in more buys than you’re guessing, I think we’re all having an unnecessary conversation as I don’t think the fight will even happen.
I don't understand why BE is so negative on this fight
I find it very intruiging and I think with proper marketing(basically a play on the boxing/MMA angle and boxing trying to get “revenge”) it could generate quite a bit of media attention from both sides. I’m interested to see how he’d do.
Hi Brent
was there a ‘best case scenario’?
or did you just want to end on the ‘worst case’?
Unless morales etc. was the (somewhat grim consideration) for a kind of best case?
Is this Brent ‘Voice of Doom’ Brookhouse, or is it unfair to question what some may call ‘relentless realism’…? you never know, you may find yourself being surprised.
I hope so… unremitting naysay is such a drag.
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
I thought it was pretty clear what the best case scenario is. Showtime picking it up. Next best (but far from ideal) is Integrated Sports picking it up.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 8, 2011 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
your view seems clear… this pay per view (if this is what it will be) will most likely bomb,
which is fair enough.
One of the main things I enjoy mma/combat sports for is their bringing of the unlikely or improbable into being however, so will be rooting for an outcome that isn’t quite so stultifying.
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
I just hope the fight is good.
Obviously I’m interested in it or I wouldn’t be covering it so hard given how little impact it has on traffic
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 8, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
the
day a writer produces purely based on notions of ‘traffic’ is a day of great peril for that definition (‘writer’ that is)…
we agree tho, btw… although to see diaz cream Lacy (as a former favourite of mine Calzaghe once did) would be incredible.
'if you don't have humility as a fighter, fighting will bring humility to you...'
Oh, I’m just saying. I wouldn’t wait up until 2am so that Joey and I have a chance to talk…or really push for the scoop on a story like this…etc. if I didn’t care about it.
I write more things that do disappointing traffic than a lot of people would like ;)
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 8, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I loved Boxing back when I was in High school, and college. I watched Friday Night Flight every week, and caught all the PPVs with friends, but over the last few years I’ve stopped watching as much as I got more into MMA. Then I made the promise about a year ago, that I wouldn’t watch another boxing match until Mayweather fought Pac-man. I’m sticking too that. I want to see Diaz fight St. Pierre, I don’t give a shit about him boxing Jeff Lacy.
Then I made the promise about a year ago, that I wouldn’t watch another boxing match until Mayweather fought Pac-man
You will probably never watch another boxing match in your entire life, in that case.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
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by Drunken cutman on May 9, 2011 5:44 AM EDT up reply actions
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