Manny Pacquiao vs Jon Jones: Spike TV Wants to Know
by Nate Wilcox on May 5, 2011 10:39 AM EDT
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Spike TV is asking all "guys" to their site and vote for the Guys Choice awards which will be announced in June.
Categories include "Most Dangerous Man," "Holy Grail of Hot", "Unstoppable Jock", "Top Fantasy Leaguer" and naturally, "Best Girl-on-Girl Scene."
Wow, I guess that is the MMA demographic or at least what Spike TV thinks of it.
It's interesting that Jones has already become the marquee star of the UFC. With the collapse of Brock Lesnar against Cain Velasquez at UFC 121 and the return of the light heavyweight belt to American hands, Jones has been annointed.
Also interesting to note that while Pacquiao outshines any single UFC star by so much wattage it's not even a contest, MMA as a whole has many many more second tier stars than boxing. Beyond Pacquiao and a fast-fading Mayweather boxing has very little star-power left.
Sure Pac takes this one, but in five years will there be any boxing stars as big as Jon Jones?
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IT'S STILL KEN SHAMROCK MOTHERFUCKERS
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on May 5, 2011 10:40 AM EDT reply actions 13 recs
I think you’re misreading it: “Most Dangerous Man” to other men, not to themselves.
by casey manrique on May 5, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Did Bird’s Den hack your account? Lowell, is that you??
Fight Rankings - I don't know more about MMA than you, but I'll certainly pretend that I do.
This comment seems odd as well.
Also interesting to note that while Pacquiao outshines any single UFC star by so much wattage it’s not even a contest, MMA as a whole has many many more second tier stars than boxing. Beyond Pacquiao and a fast-fading Mayweather boxing has very little star-power left.
I mean I guess, but “second-tier stars” in MMA are basically unknown to the average person on the street so I’m not sure what your point is.
"Unless you can’t think of something intelligent to say, don’t reply and make the world as dumb as you are appearing to be." - mabel4life
by lowellthehammer on May 5, 2011 10:46 AM EDT reply actions
Second tier stars in boxing are more than unknown to the average person
Second tier stars in MMA get a lot of push compared to boxers. Atleast thats how I see it.
I’m into boxing but beyond Pac Man and Mayweather, I couldnt tell you who is among the best in the sport. With MMA even my casual fan friends can tell you who’s on the upswing in the UFC because they get a lot more push.
2nd tier stars IMO
are guys that can sell boucoup PPV buys but don’t net a mention on network TV
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on May 5, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
So, by that criteria, who are the 1st tier stars in the UFC right now? Rampage, Lesnar and Jones, those the only two that come to mind. Who else gets talked about on PTI, or invited to late night shows?
First tier would actually probably be Lesnar, GSP and maybe Rampage and Rashad and MAYBE Anderson. (if we’re talking about being a “drawing star” I mean)
Jones hasn’t proven to be a huge draw yet (we can speculate based on his media appearances, but we don’t know for sure yet.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 5, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
Has GSP ever been invited to a late night show, or be talked about on shows like PTI, etc., though?
I thought that’s what Kid Nate was saying… 1st tier stars sell a lot of PPVs and also get a lot of mainstream media attention. By that criteria, I don’t think Anderson fits, or GSP. Maybe Rashad, not sure. From the top of my head, Rampage, Lesnar and Jones are the only active UFC fighters that have received mainstream media attention. Tito probably did a few years ago, but I’m ignoring him as he probably shouldn’t even be in the UFC anymore.
Anderson is making big jumps in his world-wide Q Score
due to the hugeness of his Belfort fight in Brazil and being the front man for the UFC’s media push there.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Oh ok. Pretty sure I read a comment from someone in Brazil in another post that Anderson wasn’t that big in Brazil, even after the fight with Belfort.
I think I remeber them saying that about Wand not Anderson, but I could be wrong
If you can't wow them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.
Maybe. But now that I think about it, I think it’s Royce Gracie who isn’t a big star in Brazil. Someone from Brazil posted that in one of the posts about Royce fighting at UFC: Rio, saying he isn’t even that big of a star over there. That person had also mentionned Vitor was by far the biggest MMA star over there, but mostly because he married someone who was on a reality show over there. So yeah, no clue where that leaves Anderson.
Well, he went to Leno, was talked about on PTI, and was on BET on some show. That’s more of a “star” to the mainstream media than almost anyone else in the UFC, save Lesnar, IMO.
Google Trends can give a good indication of this kind of stuff – at least as far as covering a fighters popularity with the internet using demographics. Most people, when they hear about some rad dude, they google him.
Anderson Silva is a hot property at the moment thanks to his insane knockout at UFC126, creating the biggest spike in searches for UFC since UFC100
Are we talking biggest in PPV buys
or what?
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
I was thinking more Q Score
and if you don’t know what that is, learn up on it here
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Is there any known "Q score"
on any notable boxer or mixed martial artist?
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
not that is public
as far as I know. But I know for a fact that Golden Boy commissioned some research to generate on for Oscar de La Hoya a few years back.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
As general knowledge of the sport grows, it will become obvious that MMA stars are more dangerous because they can take the fight to the ground. II think it will obviously happen within the next ten years, but it could happen within the next two with ‘Mr. Jones’ on the rise.
Still on the Charles Oliveira bandwagon!
by SmokinJoe86 on May 5, 2011 10:47 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
An MMA fighter could (and probably will) be the biggest American star
but worldwide, it would have to still be a boxer, unless someone really blows up.
Also interesting to note that while Pacquiao outshines any single UFC star by so much wattage it’s not even a contest, MMA as a whole has many many more second tier stars than boxing. Beyond Pacquiao and a fast-fading Mayweather boxing has very little star-power left.
eeeeh…That’s a really trendy thing to say, but when a fight like Victor Ortiz vs. Andre Berto does 1.5 million viewers on premium cable (HBO) I’m not exactly lamenting the lack of “star power” in the sport. That Ortiz fight propelled him to a position where people are calling for Ortiz/Mayweather or Ortiz/Pacquiao.
Timothy Bradley is gaining stream, Andre Ward is young and really on the rise as a star in a division filled with quality fights, Juan Manuel Lopez could come back from his last loss and continue on as a star.
It was funny watching a Mosley fight from 1997 last night. He was fighting for his first title on Boxing After Dark (the second tier HBO boxing show) and they were running ads for their next Boxing After Dark card which featured Erik Morales in the main event and the new “must see” rising star Floyd Mayweather.
And that was around a time where there weren’t a bevy of hot stars doing huge business beyond a couple top guys. And then here comes a Morales, a Mayweather, a Mosley, Lennox Lewis becomes a bigger star over the following years, Juan Manuel Marquez is starting his rise through the rankings..etc.
Every time the “stars are disappearing” the chamber ends up reloaded exactly the same as it always has for boxing. A bunch of very good boxers throughout the weight classes and a small group of top guys that can do the top level business.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 5, 2011 10:59 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
agreed
but boxing seems to max out with about 2 stars at a time now whereas once it was more like 4-6
I can remember in the Ali days when the whole heavyweight top 10 had pretty good name recognition.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Yeah, but how many guys does MMA have that are huge draws? I mean, the UFC brand is the big thing (and provides a much better structure than boxing has). But there aren’t a lot of huge drawing MMA stars either.
It’s pretty much the same for both sports. Once a guy is the best in the world he can usually draw well, or if he’s some sort of “bigger than the sport” story like post-jail Tyson or Lesnar…etc.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 5, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Every time the "stars are disappearing" the chamber ends up reloaded exactly the same as it always has for boxing. A bunch of very good boxers throughout the weight classes and a small group of top guys that can do the top level business.
Nuff said.
Personally I think that boxing stars will continue to eclipse MMA stars for some time to come for a variety of reasons.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on May 5, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
There's pretty much no chance Timothy Bradley emerges as a marketable star
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
He’ll never be a PPV draw, but he’ll do good business on cable if he continues on. But a guy like Andre Ward will slide right into that “top drawing” guy spot in a few years as long as his career doesn’t go to shit. He’s undefeated, an easy guy to watch, a former U.S. Olympic gold medalist..etc.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 5, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Definitely agree about Ward. Fun fighter, great technique, strong victories against top opponents, etc.
Also, he’s from my hometown.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
You know what? People used to say the same thing about Floyd Mayweather. Back when Bob Arum had him smiling up a storm, no one watched Floyd in spite of him spanking world class, top level guys. Its not until he started wearing a black hat and beat the hell out of the overrated Gatti that people really started paying attention.
by VirtualBalboa on May 5, 2011 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions
Bradley is very technical but doesn't even have Mayweather's punching power
I love the Gatti fight. Ass whooping of the century with the worst cornering I’ve ever seen (Buddy McGirt). Have it on VHS still along with Roy Jones vs. Glen Johnson.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
That's a good point
but boxing also has never had a direct combat sports competitor like MMA. Especially if/ when the fighters unionize, the pay and benefits of fighters should be sizable, and I think more and more fighters will go to MMA instead of boxing.
Boxing is fun, and I appreciate the art of isolating one aspect of fighting into one sport, but ultimately I enjoy kickboxing much much more, and MMA more than that.
Doesn’t it kind of suck that you’re a boxer, you devote your life to learning your craft, all these advanced offensive & defensive techniques, and in the end- you’re hardly even scratching the surface of striking? In an unarmed combat situation, the Nak Muay/ kickboxer beats the holy god out of a boxer 9 times out of 10. Kicks, knees, and elbows- all things that boxers neither train to use nor defend.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 5, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Ortiz Berto just happened, Maidana and Morales just put on a hell of a fight that is getting a lot of recognition in the press, and Khan is still a machine who has a lot of fans. I think the lack of star power in boxing is the same as the lack of star power in MMA. If you’re a fan of the sport, you know these guys. If you’re not a fan, you don’t.
You retired from kick boxing in 2006. If you had to do it all over again, would you have tried fighting in MMA?
Jean-Charles Skarbowsky: No.
Never underestimate...
…the power of a united Filipino community. I have a lot of friends of that background and not one is around/available when Pac Man fights.
The real question
…is why aren’t you there with them? You won’t find a more awesome party than a bunch of Filipinos getting together to make tocino and watch a Pacquiao fight. :D
"I want to tell me what you see, let's go ahead and see by in the fight, what you saw, in the ring." - Tito Ortiz
Currently, MMA only has Brock Lesnar and GSP as "draws"
BJ Penn is not a draw and he’s only put up 2 PPVs with big numbers (vs. GSP II and vs. Sanchez).
Boxing has Pacquiao, Martinez, and Khan right off the top of my head.
Right now the only thing MMA can claim they’ve got it way better than boxing currently, is the “watchability” of the HW division. Strikeforce and the UFC can sell their HW fights and sell them well because they have a lot of quality, exciting fighters. HBO dropped heavyweight title fights from their programming due to lack of interest so the #1 HW in the world is either on European TV or ESPN Delay.
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
Absolutely
He’ll be a HW by then once his body fills out and….
"If I had a dollar for every brain you don't have, I'd have one dollar." - Squidward Tentacles
Hard to know for certain, though. We don’t really know how good his chin is… what if he gets caught by Evans (like Rua caught Machida), and it’s all downhill from there for Jones? And even if he wins his next 4-5 fights at LHW, and then goes up to HW, that’s a whole another level of hard-hitters and solid jaws up there…
As I said, I think he probably has the highest ceiling of anyone who’s joined the UFC in recent years, but in MMA, nothing is certain.
He’ll be a HW by then once his body fills out
Not necessarily.
The notion that every athlete will gain copious amounts of weight as he ages is false. NFL wide receivers don’t magically morph into tight ends as they age. MLB Shortstops don’t develop catcher bodies as they get older. If Jones maintains his current caloric intake and expenditure, there is no reason to believe he will pack on a ton of mass.
Categories include “Most Dangerous Man,” “Holy Grail of Hot”, “Unstoppable Jock”, “Top Fantasy Leaguer” and naturally, “Best Girl-on-Girl Scene.”
Wow, I guess that is the MMA demographic or at least what Spike TV thinks of it.
No
That is the SpikeTV demographic. Even before they took a gamble on the UFC, the network was all about chasing after brainless troglodytes who lives for titties, sports, and booze with nary a thought towards more intellectual pursuits. They have continued to chase after that demographic with shows such as ‘Manswers’, ‘1000 Ways to Die’, ‘Blue Mountain State’ and just about every other original program in the history of the network.
The MMA demographic is only a subset of their overall target market of meatheads.
which is exactly why i think the ufc ditches spikes sorry ass at the end of the year
there are greener pastures for the UFC, spike was great for a time but the UFC has outgrown the channel and they wont grow any more with all their programming on it
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
But the UFC wants
total control of the production and just about everything else. Dana has said quite a few times that is the major sticking point in getting a network or anyother TV deal done. UFC/Zuffa wants complete control of there product and rightfully so but most TV networks want there guys do all the producing and other things that the UFC is just not willing to give up contol of. Sooner or later theres going to have to be some movement on either side of it and if a network really wants into the MMA game bad enough then they are going to want the best Org. around. You don’t see the NBA D-league or arena football on CBS, NBC, or ABC because they want the premier leagues on there channels.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
Production isn't going to be a deal breaker
For UFC or a Tier-1 Network. Your talking Millions. If CBS and UFC come to terms you think that having Mike Goldberg or Ken Shamrock calling fights is going to be a deal breaker?
Production was never the deal-breaker.
It was always about money.
I’m sure Zuffa would be perfectly willing to budge on production issues if a network was willing to pay them a licensing fee that rivals what they would make on PPV. Problem is, the networks aren’t offering anywhere close to that type of licensing fee. They are offering a couple million for events that Zuffa could just as easily plop on PPV and make ten million. Until that gap closes, we won’t be seeing the UFC on network TV.
I agree but were talking about Spike VS UFC
Not necessarily stop doing PPV but moving TUF and there Free Cards to CBS. People here act like FrankShamrock and Mauro Ranallo are why UFC and Showtime/CBS would never comes to term which is just ridiculous. It Boils down to $$$$.
CBS doesn’t want SpikeTV-level cards. They want legit PPV-level cards.
That is the kind of card they got from Strikeforce/EliteXC. They would expect at least that much from the UFC. They are used to having cards headlined by Fedor, Dan Henderson, Kimbo, Nick Diaz, Gilbert Melendez, etc. They want that level of stardom headlining their cards, not TUF graduates like Joe Daddy or the lesser Diaz.
The only way they are going to get PPV-level cards is they pay something approaching PPV-level money. Zuffa isn’t just going to give it away for $1MM like Strikeforce & EliteXC did. They want something approaching the $10MM they make on a 400K PPV buy card.
oh ok good points but
I thought the point of acquiring all this talent was to put on more quality shows. Ufc does like 12 ppvs/year now with SF they have a surplus of top level guys. They could give cbs 4 ppv level cards/year of course if money is right without decrease in standard # of ppvs they usually do
Zuffa will NEVER completely leave Spike.
No other network is going to give them the kind of programming time that Spike does. Spike dedicates dozens and dozens of hours every week to UFC programs, from live events to TUF to Countdowns to Unleashed to Prime Time to Best of Pride,etc. That kind of saturation is absolutely essential for building/maintaining brand loyalty.
IMO, Zuffa will always have Spike as their ‘base’ network, but will continue to chip away at the ‘exclusivity’ of the contract. Right now, they can run four events per year on other networks. The next contract, they might bump it up to eight. The contract after that, it might jump to twelve, and so on.
The relationship with Spike is way too interdependent for them to abandon the network altogether.
Maybe the UFC brand one day will eclipse boxing's biggest STAR
but never will there be 1 MMA star who is bigger than Boxing’s biggest star
The UFC brand has already eclipsed boxing’s biggest star. Hell, they’ve eclipsed the entire sport, much less a single star.
In terms of what? MMA-only fans still perpetuating the myth boxing is dead?
Manny Pacquiao could fight someones Grandmother and draw well over 1MM buys and fill Cowboys stadium fighting relative no names. Only person who could come close is Brock Lesnar and as shown by his stint on TUF his star power is dwindling.
There’s no doubt about that, but how many PPV’s is Pac-man or Mayweather on? I don’t know the numbers, but I’d assume (never a smart thing to do) that over a year long period, the UFC’s PPV buys would be higher than the yearly number of boxing PPV buys. I think thats what Steve’s getting at.
If you can't wow them with brilliance, then baffle them with bullshit.
Boxing is certainly not dead, nor will it ever die. It is way too ingrained in the collective consciousness to ever die out completely, and it is still going very strong in many parts of the world.
That said, the UFC brand has clearly eclipsed boxing where it matters most …. the bottom line. The UFC sells more PPVs annually than every boxing event COMBINED. They make more money in syndication and canned programming. They sell more merchandise. Hell, they make so much money that a cottage ‘lifestyle’ industry has sprung up around them and is making money on the stuff that falls through the cracks.
The UFC brand is CLEARLY bigger than any one boxer.
well in large part b/c boxings biggest stars fight so in frequently
If manny, pbf, cotto, klitchko, margo fought a combined 12x/yr they’d outsell ufc in terms of ppv’s quite easily
If my Aunt had balls, she’d be my uncle
by Steve4192 on May 5, 2011 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
point being ufc is bigger not because its more popular
They just stay busy
Soon he will rule the UFC HW div.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
ROCKY MARCIANO 49-0 HW Champion of the World.
Cain vs Overeeem. That would be just incredible. They really need to do a UFC vs Strikeforce PPV as soon as possible. Cain vs Overeem, GSP vs Diaz and Egar (or Maynard) vs Melendez. Those three fights alone would make that an absolutely epic PPV.
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