Fedor Emelianenko vs. Dan Henderson Confirmed for July 30 in Chicago
by Mike Fagan on May 3, 2011 5:50 PM EDT
in Strikeforce News
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Details have slowly trickled in, but it now looks like a fight between Strikeforce light heavyweight champ Dan Henderson and former Pride heavyweight champ Fedor Emelianenko is official. Recently-departed Bloody Elbow staffer Jonathan Snowden has the scoop (via Twitter):
Sources close to both fighters tell me the Fedor Emelianenko and Dan Henderson fight has been finalized for July 30th in Chicago on Showtime
Sources close to the promotion say the Fedor-Henderson fight will at a catchweight of 220. It will be promoted as a heavyweight bout.
No venue is official, but it's likely that Strikeforce will return to the Sears Centre in Hoffman Estates, Illinois. As Brent Brookhouse noted, it's likely that Strikeforce is trying to avoid the 9% entertainment tax within Chicago city limits.
A 220-pound catchweight would mark the first time Emelianenko has fought outside the heavyweight limit. The former number one heavyweight is on a two-fight losing streak, with a submission loss to Fabricio Werdum and the doctor halting his bout with Antonio Silva at the end of round two.
Henderson is the current Strikeforce light heavyweight champ after stopping Rafael Cavalcante in March. He had previously knocked out Renato Sobral in December of 2010.
[UPDATE] ESPN's Josh Gross believes the fight is at heavyweight:
@mmaencyclopedia My understanding is there's no catch-weight. Just a heavyweight fight.
[UPDATE] Snowden responds:
I was told that it would be promoted as a heavyweight bout but that both fighters would be no more than 220 pounds @JoshGrossESPN
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I can die a happy man at peace
if we see this fight.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
by TheFilt on May 3, 2011 4:09 PM EDT reply actions 5 recs
Same here,
especially with a 220 lb. Fedor. If he diets down to there, then that’s a real step in the right direction towards an eventual 205 lb. campaign.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (your welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 3, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I am very, very excited about this. I don’t care if the only other fight on this card is Wes Sims/Bobby Lashley II, I am going to be there.
Fight Rankings - I don't know more about MMA than you, but I'll certainly pretend that I do.
by krcampbell on May 3, 2011 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
It's no Fedor vs Overeem
But it is a damn good fight, I thank lord and savior Dana F. White fir making it happen.
by Hashmo on May 3, 2011 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
220’s weird. Luke speculated that Hendo walks around at 215 or so, but I always thought he was below that, in the 208-210 area. It just seems like making Fedor cut 10 pounds is a bit meaningless. Do it at 210 or at worst 215. 220’s nothing.
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
shut up shut up shut up
they give you a hand and you ask for MORE
by Hashmo on May 3, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
yea 220 is an awkward catchweight
i’d love to see this at 205, but it looks like fedor just doesnt wanna cut any weight
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
yes, it is
really wanted to see 215 at least
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
by F'n Clownshoes on May 3, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
It's tricky
To the best of my knowledge the only commission currently open to sanctioning 5 round non-title bouts is Nevada.
www.hottopicwithphil.com
I thought
That at NJ was on board for it as well
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
would have preferred to see it about 5 pounds lighter as a clear indication that Fedor is serious about a shot at LHW, but this will do just fine by me…….is it just me or is it weird that i’m still worried about confirmation because it’s a Strikeforce event?
"There are no atheists in foxholes" isn't an argument against atheism, it's an argument against foxholes. ~James Morrow
"There is a fine line between fishing and just standing on the shore like an idiot."-Steven Wright
I hope they round this card out. This is a great start?
Any rumors on other fights for this card?
Administrator of www.startaterriblerumoraboutpatrickpetersonsoheslidesto#9.com
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on May 3, 2011 4:15 PM EDT reply actions
question mark fail
Administrator of www.startaterriblerumoraboutpatrickpetersonsoheslidesto#9.com
by Carl Shelton (GloryDayz88) on May 3, 2011 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Subject line, damn it.
Bolts from the Blue // "I eat cereal out of a giant novelty wine glass because it makes me feel fancy." - Britney Wade
Bloody Elbow // "Everybody underestimates the kick in the groin." - Bas Rutten
King Mo vs. Roger Gracie
Feijao vs. Ovince St Preux
More HWGP fights
Still a Beer Monster.
http://www.instrength.com
I doubt on the HWGP but Jacare vs. ? and maybe the Mousasi/Jardine rematch if they are still going through with that.
I’m Ron Burgundy?
Hardcore MMA fan since UFC 99
by ChiCubs23 on May 3, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, it is a little known fact
Fedor was actually a well sized middleweight before his professional career started and village idiot Vadim Finkelstein proclaimed Fedor was afraid to fight “the big boys” and thus he is always making an imaginary catchweight of 230lbs in his mind.
All i can say is wow
my first ever mma event was Fedor vs Rogers. I was thinking that would be the last time I would see Fedor, especially after losing two in a row. This is going to be insane!
c'mon now
fedor weighs 230 in JEANS and a BELT with a big ol’ spare tire around his waist.
i think its pathetic that he won’t go down to 205 to make this a 5 rounder for the belt, ESPECIALLY when his career at heavyweight is questionable these days.
by fontgangsta on May 3, 2011 4:18 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
how is it best for fedor
to fight someone as dangerous as the LHW champ w/o the reward of the title on the line? how is it best for him to prolong his career @ HW where he can’t hang anymore?
and yes, i want this to be a 5 rounder – how selfish of me – count every other MMA fan in on that too.
Hendo
Hendo insisted on this being at HW, regardless.
"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.
can you link that insistence?
didnt read that and im really curious as to his reasoning.
my guess would be he only said that to entice fedor into the fight w/o a weight cut, but im just pulling that out of my ass.
Hmm
Tried finding it. Think it was in a fanshot with a short Hendo interview, but I’m not too good with this stuff.
"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.
I know it was on BE somewhere.
But I’m too lazy to find it in the archives here.
Here’s an article about it on Mania.
http://www.mmamania.com/2011/4/14/2110514/heavyweight-or-bust-dan-henderson-wont-take-fedor-fight-at
"Ellismania is, along with the black President, a symbol of the future." - Mayhem Miller
Tweeter!
The important bits, as transcribed by someone else.
I don’t know (when the fight’s going to happen). Not as soon as I’d like. I’d probably put it on sooner but that’s up to Scott Coker and the rest of the Strikeforce/Zuffa people to determine and like I said, it would be an honor to fight him. And if I did fight him, it would be no catchweight. I don’t do those at all. If I’m going to fight him at his weight, I’m going to fight him at his weight.
Yeah, if for some reason this fight does happen, I wouldn’t take the fight if it was at a catchweight.
"Ellismania is, along with the black President, a symbol of the future." - Mayhem Miller
Tweeter!
How should I know? The point is, apparently Fedor feels that he is better off this way. Maybe he doesn’t feel like dropping the weight. He’s in it for the money, and he already has a lot. He is going to get a bunch of money for this fight at 220, so possibly he doesn’t consider whatever additional money he would get for a title fight at 205 worth the trouble of losing the extra weight.
It is a privilege to get to watch fighers like Fedor and Hendo. They don’t owe us a five round fight or a particular weight.
The idea of a five-round fight would probably just confuse the shit out of Fedor.
"Ellismania is, along with the black President, a symbol of the future." - Mayhem Miller
Tweeter!
Simma
Pathetic? It’s not that big of a deal. We, as fans, get to see a great fight. Take it easy.
Ugarte: You despise me, don't you?
Rick: If I gave you any thought I probably would.
And there will be a new Strikeforce Light Heavyweight Champion if Dan wins
This is the last fight on his Strikeforce deal if he wins “Business as usual” means Dan joining Mayhem in jumping. He loses he stays in Strikeforce and rules the 205 divison until the merger.
http://unintelligentdefense.blogspot.com
The 220-pound catchweight will mark the first time Emelianenko has fought below the heavyweight limit.
What exactly does that mean?
Heavyweight is 206-265. How is he fighting below the heavyweight limit when it is at 220?
It is a heavyweight fight, but a term of the bout agreement is that the max weight is 220. IIRC, Couture/Toney and Kimbo/Alexander had similar terms…possibly a cro cop fight too (too tired/buzzed to recall specifics at the moment).
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 4, 2011 4:49 AM EDT up reply actions
Highly doubtful
They both have epic power, but neither guy has ever been KO’d.
Most likely ending would be a fedor sub, imo.
YES
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 3, 2011 4:28 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
owner of a lonely gym
much better than a
owner of a broken hand
by Pyrgz Krum on May 3, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Its live-live
Cause PRIDE NEVER DIE!
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
by TheFilt on May 3, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Double-KO.
Ultimate win or horrendous loss?
"Ellismania is, along with the black President, a symbol of the future." - Mayhem Miller
Tweeter!
Perhaps a near victory for one fighter, disrupted by a run-in by Lesnar and Jones, who are then driven back to the locker room by Fedor and Hendo as the crowd goes nuts.
by Finian1 on May 3, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
An excellent, closely fought fight up until the last 20 or so seconds when both guys get simultaneously KTFO for the first time in their careers…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 4, 2011 4:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Only three rounds, no dietary improvement, and Fedor doesn’t get stuck with a title if he wins. A bit disappointing, but what else should we expect from Fedor’s camp? Hopefully it’ll be a good fight.
Really looking forward to Overeem and Werdum, tho.
Jab, jab, towards, short, fierce.
I didn't think of that.
Fedor as LHW champ? That’s another SF title we’d never see defended.
"Ellismania is, along with the black President, a symbol of the future." - Mayhem Miller
Tweeter!
Doesn't have to be 3 rounds.
5 round title fights have been approved in several states.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (your welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 3, 2011 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions
You think so?
I don’t know… what’s Fedor’s longest fight ever? 20 minutes against Crocop and Nogueira?
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (your welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 3, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Hendo fades
and Fedor is a come back fighter.
Just seems to me the longer it goes the more likely Fedor wins.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
I think Hendo
is more of a gasser at 185, his endurance seems to be pretty good at 205. He was pretty tired at the end of the Rampage fight, but Fedor was pretty tired at the end of the Crocop fight too. I’ve been skeptical of Fedor’s endurance for a while, but that’s just because he hasn’t gone the distance for a while now.
This fight is great though- 2 guys who are bulls in the clinch, with BIG BIG power in their right hands.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (your welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 3, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Good point about Fedor's gas tank.
But I think the 10 minute first round is a killer for anyone.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
Yeah,
that was definitely brutal. HARD 10 minutes, too. He and Mirko went at it, and he went nuts against Nogueira in the 1’st round too. I just don’t know if he’s in the same shape these days, but I try not to doubt Fedor
=D
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (your welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 3, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
If Fedor wins, he beats an over-40 puffed-up middleweight. Big deal.
If Hendo wins, the MMAth is beautiful:
GSP > Shields > Hendo > Fedor
Let your mind explode on that for a minute.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
BOOM
Shonie > Serra > GSP > Shields > Hendo > Fedor
by PackMMA on May 3, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Dennis Hallman
Hallman > Hughes> Serra > GSP > Shields > Hendo > Fedor
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
Psh
John Howard>Hallman>Hughes>Serra>GSP>Shields>Hendo>Fedor
Nick catone >John Howard>Hallman>Hughes>Serra>GSP>Shields>Hendo>Fedor
I’d rather just climb this fridge
NICE.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Are you aware that there aren’t enough words in the english language- hell, the entire lexicon of languages the world over- to describe how incredibly wrong this is. Not only is it wrong in that it is ignorant, but in that it is so incredibly incorrect on a factual level. Holy Fucking God, how stupid can a human being get? In my life I’ve encountered people who have been unintelligent, yes- I’ve encountered my share of people who suffered from mental disabilities. People with downs syndrome, autism, and so on. However, I have never once encounted somehow so stupid as to be capable of thinking something so unbelievably off-base. I didn’t even think it possible that anyone in our plain of existence could ever even have the capacity for this level of idiocy
Chill the fuck out or move on.
Ugarte: You despise me, don't you?
Rick: If I gave you any thought I probably would.
by memitim on May 3, 2011 7:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
Isn't it cute when they don't understand a joke?
I like how they have to look up and see all the commenters that got the joke and posted correctly in response before them. Oh those cursed date-stamps.
Anyway: hey other old-timers, have I missed anything lately?
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
Luke and Snowden left
Good to see ya man.
Jab, jab, towards, short, fierce.
by asa on May 4, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a joke. Calm down.
Bolts from the Blue // "I eat cereal out of a giant novelty wine glass because it makes me feel fancy." - Britney Wade
Bloody Elbow // "Everybody underestimates the kick in the groin." - Bas Rutten
There are no less than eight grammatical errors in this post, but more importantly: one giant fucking idiotic response to what is a well-known joke.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
Yeah dude!
Everyone knows how deeply meaningful and significant MMA MATH is!!
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (your welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 3, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
The point. You're so close to getting it.
Don't believe a word I say, I don't train BJJ.
I blog at TangleBones - you should follow me on Twitter here.
If you like it, you should put a rec on it.
As are you...
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (your welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 3, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions
That was quite the whistling sound that ElliotMatheny's sarcasm made when it went over your head!
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it.
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
i should start using sarcasm font more often
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 4, 2011 4:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I see what you did there...
AND I LIKE IT!
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 4, 2011 8:44 AM EDT up reply actions
I guess this means the Chicago mma market isn't so bad after all
considering SF is returning there pretty soon after they did Fedor vs Rogers. the idea that areas where more mma guys train and where there are more gyms produce more fans is really overblown. chicago is the second biggest available market in the US for mma, and me being biased, i would say it’s a bigger sports town than LA. that’s somewhere that already has mma fans, and somewhere where it’s good to invest mma.
This fight is 2 1/2 hours from me...
Looks like I’ll be going….War FEDOR!!!
Be a man, not a child-Phil Anselmo
If Fedor comes back in this fight with a crisp, updated style reinvigorated I want to see him face the loser of the HWGP, likely Josh Barnett, then one final fight at HW against either Werdum or Reem. If he comes back doing the same thing (casting punch, clinch, release, repeat) then I would prefer to see him retire. Let’s see who shows up on July 30th.
Ugarte: You despise me, don't you?
Rick: If I gave you any thought I probably would.
You're not interested
in a light heavyweight Fedor? I definitely am. Do you love his belly that much bro?
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (your welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 3, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I just feel he has made his legacy at HW. He is never going to fight for the UFC so I’m not interested in watching him finish out his career taking on Feijao and co. I would like to see him get his skills sharpened, get his ground game back to the point where a sub is more likely than a KO, and go out on a winning streak at HW after the Hendo fight. I think he definitely can compete at HW if he puts the work in. There is no reason he can’t lose that tire and clock in at a mean 230-235 if he is doing real strength and conditioning training.
Ugarte: You despise me, don't you?
Rick: If I gave you any thought I probably would.
I don't know, man.
I think his run is over at heavyweight. Could he beat Werdum in a rematch, with revamped training, and better restraint? Sure. Could he be competitive with and beat guys like Barnett, Sergei, et al? Yeah.
But the fact of the matter is, Fedor’s grappling training stagnated, and even once you fix that, you have the simple issue of Fedor not being a real heavyweight. He has a light heavyweight body, plain and simple. You can’t be carrying around jiggly fat when your as undersized a HW as Fedor. With dietary changes and revamped training, Fedor could 15-20 lbs of fat, and would only have to cut 5-10 lbs of water (the dude has weekly sauna sessions where I’m sure he sweats out that much).
And fights with Hendo, Feijao, Mo, etc are all very intriguing to me. As would be a potential UFC 205 lb run. Now that Fedor doesn’t have as many bargaining chips, I think he could end up in the UFC down the line, although that’s a small chance.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (your welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 3, 2011 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He is a HW tho.
The thing is Fedor was always a HW. No one really talked about this kind of thing when he was beating Nog, Cro Cop, Big Timmeh, etc. There was a new breed of behemoth HW’s like Lesnar and Carwin but they have shown they can be beat. If Fedor gets himself back in shape the way he was circa 2005-2006 he certainly can compete at HW. Look at these two pictures:
If Fedor can get back in that kind of shape, both skills and strength wise, he can match up with anyone. If he is not going to do it then he should just hang em up. It’s not like he is an old man.
Ugarte: You despise me, don't you?
Rick: If I gave you any thought I probably would.
Fedor was always a heavyweight,
but his strength, speed, reflexes, and intuition always won the day. There have never been truly skilled HEAVYWEIGHTS (unable to cut to even 230) in MMA; the closest to that was Big Tim, and he wasn’t as skilled as he was big. Fedor’s skill was enough for him to beat unskilled heavyweights, and skilled cruiserweights (able to fit into a 230 lb. division), but now that he’s run into VERY skilled cruiserweights and skilled heavyweights, he can’t hang.
Saying that he’s complacent, lazy, or uninterested is nothing but hearsay, and if you ask me- slander. I’ve always considered Fedor’s work ethic and discipline to be beyond reproach. He’s just too old fashioned, and stubborn; Fedor has never really gone out of his comfort zone, and the sport evolved faster than he did. He doesn’t cut weight, he doesn’t have elite trainers or elite training partners, he doesn’t have advanced gameplans, his workouts aren’t scientific and particularly sport specific, and his skills are no longer cutting edge.
Even back in the day, when Fedor was 225ish, he was doughy. Fedor (5’11/ 6’0) is not built like Cain (6’1/ 6’2, 240, and leaner than Fedor); he could DEFINITELY shed 15 lbs with the right diet and S/C program, and shed whatever little water needed.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (your welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 3, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Saying that he’s complacent, lazy, or uninterested is nothing but hearsay, and if you ask me- slander.
That’s not what I said. I said he hasn’t put the effort in to remain among the top of his division. I think he can, he chooses not to by not training with some of the best in the world. Look at Werdum. He is training in three gyms preparing for Reem. GSP trained with everyone from Freddie Roach, Roger Gracie in London, Renzo Gracie in NYC and NJ, etc in preparation for his fight. Look at the Black House guys. You have to be training with multiple disciplines today to keep up. He hasn’t done that leading up to his last few fights.
As far as his frame, it is incredibly wide. I stood very close to him at the HWGP and the thickness of his core is a heavyweights core. The width of his abdominal muscles is wide as many of the HW’s today. If he worked to fill out around that core with muscle he would look very similar to Cain. He hasn’t had to in the past. He does now if he wants to compete with the elites. He’s not going to the UFC. That ship has sailed for Dana, he isn’t going to go around with M-1 again. I would like to see him wrap up against Hendo, Barnett, and then Reem or Werdum in Strikeforce. But, at top condition and properly trained for each of those fights.
Ugarte: You despise me, don't you?
Rick: If I gave you any thought I probably would.
I don't think power is the problem.
He has plenty of power already, packing on more muscle wouldn’t really help him much. Yes, Fedor is a stocky guy, but 6’0 is short even for light heavyweight. And saying that he should “work to fill out around that core with muscle” displays a fundamental misunderstanding of human physiology. The muscles in the core (abdominals, lower back muscles) aren’t large muscle groups, and aren’t muscles that would “fill out”.
Fedor’s problem isn’t a lack of deadlifts- like you said, it’s insufficient training. I’m sure he works hard in his backwoods Russian town of Stary Oskol, but that’s not enough. Hoost is great, but not a great mind in MMA. The closest thing to a camp with top MMA fighters and top trainers in his side of the world would be Golden Glory, where i’m sure Overeem, Sergei, and JOE would be happy to work with him.
What I don’t get is how some people are honestly AGAINST even the idea of Fedor trying 205 out. He obviously has the frame for it. I think Fedor can still whoop up on guys, especially those close to his own size.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (your welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 3, 2011 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
And saying that he should "work to fill out around that core with muscle" displays a fundamental misunderstanding of human physiology. The muscles in the core (abdominals, lower back muscles) aren’t large muscle groups, and aren’t muscles that would "fill out".
You are misunderstanding what I am saying. I’m saying he has a naturally large core that is already well developed. He needs to strengthen his legs, his upper body, his hip strength, while maintaining and increasing his core. He had that power in the past. He doesn’t anymore. If he did, that second round against Bigfoot could have gone much differently, along with more BJJ training. He needs both.
It’s not that I’m against Fedor at 205. If he was able to go to the UFC and face guys like Rampage, Rua, or even Jones it would be one thing. That’s not happening. So, if it’s not, I want to see him become the most skilled and strongest HW he can be and go up against the SF HW elites rather than watch him end his career facing a guy like Feijao or King Mo (he’s not going to fight Mousasi), fighters who few people know. His end should be with a bang and he should get his skills back to that level so it can be that kind of departure from the sport.
Ugarte: You despise me, don't you?
Rick: If I gave you any thought I probably would.
Fedor doesn't need to start bodybuilding,
he’s plenty strong, and his build is actually great for MMA. Just needs less fat and he will have the physique of prime Hoost. Fedor doesn’t need more muscle weighing him down, because power isn’t his problem. It’s being severely undersized.
I am much more interested in seeing Fedor be competitive with Hendo, King Mo, and Feijao than I am in seeing him get crushed by Bigfoot and Overeem, and submitted by Werdum.
It’s too late in this stage of the game for Fedor to bulk up a ton, it’s not too late for him to trim down and fight at his natural weight class. I don’t think all the squats and power cleans in the world would’ve gotten a 270 lb behemoth off of him. Sufficient grappling training would’ve helped though.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (your welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 3, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions
There were many times in that second round if his legs and hips were as strong as they were in the past he could have developed a roll out of Bigfoot’s half guard. Instead, all he could do was give up his back with no momentum. That’s rookie level grappling mistakes and part of it was skill that was not sharp but part was strength as well. I’m not saying Fedor needs to become a rippling bodybuilder. He needs to sharpen skill and get his strength back to what it was years ago. It would be nice if he trained in a cage too.
Remember when Fedor won almost every contest by sub. Then he fell in love with the KO. It changed who he was as a fighter. If he can get those skills back, along with his natural striking power, I would put money down on him against the likes of a Reem or Lesnar any day. That kind of Fedor would give Cain a run too because the guy just doesn’t get KO’d. He took BOMBS and kept going. That makes him dangerous against anyone in the HW division. But only if he put in the real, multi-disciplined training effort. I don’t know if he has that in him tho.
Ugarte: You despise me, don't you?
Rick: If I gave you any thought I probably would.
I completely agree
that Fedor needs to revamp his training… we’re 100% on the same page there.
I just don’t think that he’s really a heavyweight. And now that REAL heavyweights have skill now, Fedor can’t compete anymore. Putting on the muscle and gaining the muscle necessary for Fedor to be an adequately sized heavyweight would take years, and I don’t think it would help him much, anyways.
I think 205 is the much more obvious, logical move. Fedor is literally no bigger than Shogun (who could be a middleweight), he just has more body fat.
But I say let’s agree to disagree here. You obviously are opposed to Fedor dropping in weight, I am obviously in favor of it. We both have our reasons and our hair- brain, armchair psychologist theories supporting our ideas, and neither of us will budge because we are stubborn.
=D
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (your welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 3, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha! Too true.
To sum it up it’s not a matter of whether I want him to go LHW. I don’t think he will ever do it. He’s fighting Hendo at 220. I think that is the lightest he will ever go. I could be wrong but if I’m not then I would like to see him do everything he can to return to the most tip top form as a HW he can for his last few fights. We will see.
Ugarte: You despise me, don't you?
Rick: If I gave you any thought I probably would.
by memitim on May 4, 2011 12:29 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
220 is a step in the right direction.
Maybe he likes being lighter, and fighting guys his own size. If he wins, I think it’s a real possibility for him to drop down.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 4, 2011 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
the problem is that moving to 205 doesn’t solve the size problem. If he diets down to 205, he will still be smaller than everyone. If he diets a little and tries to cut weight, it’s a disaster waiting to happen, and he’s still going to be smaller than people. He’s better off just fighting small HWs or LHWs at HW.
There is no reason he can’t hit the weights and get his form to a solid 230 lbs like he was in the past that gave him the ability to beat bigger guys. Muscle weighs more than fat. It’s a lack of interest that has him in the position he is in.
Ugarte: You despise me, don't you?
Rick: If I gave you any thought I probably would.
Fedor won't have to diet down to 205,
but 215? Easy. He would have to adopt a strict diet, and a more advanced strength and conditioning program. But it could be done. And at 215, he wouldn’t be a huge light heavyweight, but he also wouldn’t be outweighed by 50 solid pounds, like he was against bigfoot. Even Werdum was much bigger than Fedor; Werdum is a lean 6’4/ 240, and Fedor is a doughy 6’0/ 230.
You just can’t give up the kind of size Fedor has been giving up anymore. True heavyweights are too good now. And your suggestion that cutting weight will be a disaster, then you obviously don’t know much about Fedor. The guy goes inside a sauna and sweats out 5 pounds once a week, saying that it’s rejuvenating and whatnot. I forget what video it’s on, but he puts different herbal things in the sauna and sweats it out for a few hours every Sunday, his non- training day.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (your welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 3, 2011 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Several of the top-10 LHWs cut little to no weight (Rua, Evans, Machida, Henderson) and some cut 10-15 pounds (Jones, Bader, Davis) so I don’t see that as as much of an issue (no info on in-cage weights of Rampage or Griffin, but it is fairly safe to assume they are north of 220).
The problem to me is that he has made a career at HW out of being quicker, faster and more skilled than his (usually) larger opponents, while still having the functional strength (during his peak years) to get by.
At LHW the top guys are going to be quicker, faster and as, if not more, skilled than he is, yet he will still be at a weight and/or strength disadvantage against several of them.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 4, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
I might possibly see Fedor fight for the second time in my life. I am so lucky.
Hardcore MMA fan since UFC 99
by ChiCubs23 on May 3, 2011 7:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" - Philippians 4:13
by Noah'sArk on May 3, 2011 8:38 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Give GSP free tickets
so he can watch two fighters who know what it means to bring it. Win or lose, these are two guys I’ll always respect.
Fedor vs Dan.....um....yeah, cool
I’ll watch, but my pulse didnt even twitch when I read the headline, and I’ve seen every PRIDE multiple times.
You know Joe, Brandon Vera is considered to be a Heavyweight George St.Pierre because he just comes, comes, and comes again... -Mike Goldberg, UFC 57
Cheick Kongo looks like a cross between Evander Holyfield and pop singer Seal!
Melvin Guilard looks like a little Kevin Randelman!
-Mike "All black people look alike to me" Goldberg, UFC 62/64
as a fan of hendo
hope he wins, that whole Jake Shields DOMINATED Dan UFC was pushing like nuts got irritating in the GSP prefight, even to the point when Joe Rogan pointed out that Hendo rocked Shields Dana got irritated with what he said and quickly pointed out that he recovered.
Tough fight for Hendo, I don’t think Fedor is vulnerable to clinches and the size factor will make him GnP hungry
Dana White.
Would have loved to cash in on this one right after Pride went under.
I'm waiting for a retired hockey enforcer to make the jump to strikeforce.
Great, though i don’t believe in any sort of promises from M-1 about coming down on weight. As much as I’d love to see a leaner 215 Fedor making the transition to LHW, I envision him coming in his usual 225-230 fight weight.
Tremendous fight either way
by Carlos Estrada-Ibars Martínez on May 4, 2011 5:21 AM EDT reply actions
Awesome!
Look, I would’ve preferred if this fight had taken place 3-4 years ago when both hadn’t slowed down, but I’ll take it. This should be a great fight, and let’s see who lands his right overhand first!
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