The heavyweight world without Fedor and Brock, what does the future hold?
2011 hasn’t been a very good year for the heavyweight division so far. It started out with a lot of promise but between the world catching up with Fedor, Cain being on the shelf, Randy Couture retiring (yet again) and Brock perhaps being out for good too a lot has changed from where we all thought things stood in 2010. Traditionally this has been MMA’s weakest division but it also seems to be the division that really grabs fan interest too, there is no denying the appeal of the big guys. I thought it would be interesting to look at who’s in the division and the questions that will hopefully be answered in the future.
Lets start with Zuffa. There is no way now to deny that this is top of the sport, 23 out of the top 25 heavyweights are either under the UFC or Strikeforce banners (according to the consensus rankings, which I will use throughout the discussion). The biggest news in heavyweight will begin once Strikeforce and the UFC are able to throw these guys in the same pot and start having "super-fights" but that could potentially still be 18+ months away. Still they are all Zuffa fighters regardless so lets look at the group at a whole.
Zuffa roster
Andrei Arlovski - No longer ranked and probably should retire. For all Arlovski’s accomplishments he still seems to of fallen short of what could have been and I don’t see him having much impact going forward.
Josh Barnett - Talk about a giant question mark. Barnett’s been around the top of the sport for a long time but his steroid issues and tendency to shoot himself in the foot with his mouth have got more attention than just how good he really is. May prove himself to be the best heavyweight in the world in 2012 or may end up embarrassing himself and the sport again in the near future, with Barnett either is a possibility.
Pat Barry - Fun to watch but doesn’t seem to be going anywhere in the sport. Sometimes I wonder if he is actually taking things seriously or if he just enjoys being a fighter and is happy to be involved.
Joey Beltran - 2 and 2 in the UFC and hasn’t shown anything that would take him to the next level.
Rob Broughton - Has two wins over James Thompson, for whatever that is worth.
Travis Browne - Lets see how he does against Struve.
Shane Carwin - The number 6 ranked fighter in the division is a very dangerous opponent, well at least in the first round, after that who knows. Still he’s only been out of the first round once in his entire career. At 36 there is no tomorrow for Carwin, it’s now or never.
Daniel Cormier - Has the amateur wrestling pedigree to really make waves in the division but at 32 years old time is against him.
Mirko Filipovic- Most likely retired but there is always the possibility for one more fight. Hasn’t been a force in the sport since 2007 much to everyone’s surprise.
Shane del Rosario - Very bright future in the sport potentially destroyed by a drunk driver.
Junior dos Santos - The number 3 ranked heavyweight may very well be the future of the division. We’ll have a better idea of that in a couple of weeks. I don’t think I’d bet against him.
Jon Olav Einemo - There has been a lot of talk about him perhaps being a future force in the sport, of course that was back in 2003. Hasn’t fought since 2006.
Fedor Emelianenko - 2010, "the greatest heavyweight in the world, he is unstoppable". 2011, "Man Fedor needs to move down to light heavyweight, he just can’t compete with the big guys". At only 34 years old two losses in a row have sent him from MMA god to being a guy many people hope goes ahead and retires soon.
Chad Griggs - The part time fighter they brought in to showcase Bobby Lashley against now has a real MMA career in the major leagues, good for him.
Dave Herman - 22 fights, only been to a decision once. May not be a guy who challenges for a UFC belt but at least the fights should be interesting.
Mark Hunt - If he hits you he may kill you but …………
Lavar Johnson - Middle of the road heavyweight with a feel good story about over coming the odds after being shot in 2009.
Sergei Kharitonov - The former Pride standout could be a force in the division again as he finally comes to the States. Has a win over Alastair Overeem.
Cheick Kongo - Who hasn’t Kongo kicked in the nuts at one time or another? Ranked 17th in the world which seems about right, dangerous gatekeeper.
Brock Lesnar - There were questions about Brock’s future in MMA before the second bout with Diverculitus. It’s very possible the sport’s biggest draw may be done for good.
Frank Mir - Words to describe Frank Mir: tough, dangerous, world champion, dick. Considering what he’s been through and come back to accomplish you really want to like the guy but then he opens him mouth and it all goes out the window. Still you should never count this guy out of any discussion of the best heavyweights in the world, he’s a legitimate top ten fighter (currently ranked 8) and at only 31 years old he may be around for a while too.
Matt Mitrione - Meathead, that lovable brain damaged scamp who made the move from NFL nobody to UFC reality show star. He did end Kimbo’s so called MMA career though, a little bit of fame and some decent skills for a guy with only 4 fights have carried him a long way(to being ranked 22 in the division).
Jeff Monson - Looks like Monson is back to the big leagues again as he recently signed with Strikeforce to face Daniel Cormier. With 53 fights under his belt you have to wonder how much time the 40 year old Monson has left in the sport. Fought in Pride’s last fight ever.
Christian Morecraft - Beat McCorkle out of the UFC, not really much more to say than that.
Roy Nelson - Hovers around the top 10 level (currently ranked 12), always dangerous and has a great personality in the sport. May be the toughest fat man in the world. More than 6 million people tuned in to see him fight Kimbo Slice on TUF. Eventually this guy is going to get a world title shot.
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira - Was on retirement watch before he went out with injury for 18 months. He’s a top ten guy who’s always tough to beat it’s just that it looks like those 40 professional fights have really taken a toll, hard to believe he’s only 34 years old.
Alistair Overeem - Overrated internet fanboy creation or the savior of the entire division come to fill Fedor’s and Brock’s shoes at the same time? He’s got the entire package for both sports and entertainment now all he’s got to do is actually start fighting/beating the division’s elite fighters. Should also mention he’s a K-1 Grand prix champion and has a couple of fairly worthless MMA world title belts. If there is one man to be paying attention to in the next 18 months it’s Alistair Overeem, there is a real chance this man may become the biggest name in the sport one day.
Valentijn Overeem - Only on this list because he’s Alistair Overeem’s brother.
Brett Rogers - Serious prospect in the sport who may have been pushed too hard too soon. Looking at some of the names he’s faced it’s hard to believe he’s only had 13 fights. I really like Rogers as a fighter but man fighting Arlovski, Fedor, Overeem and Barnett in a row is a tough damn road to travel. The UFC purchase of Strikeforce may be the ticket to him getting regular fights against opponents more on his current level as opposed to being fed to a who’s who list of the sport’s stars and legends.
Aaron Rosa - Rosa has been around the sport for a while now but there isn’t anything in his record to point to him making an impact on the division in the future.
Ben Rothwell - Lot of potential but he wasn’t really going anywhere special in the UFC pre-injury. Lets see how he comes back from this very long injury layoff(anyone know when Rothwell is supposed to be back?). At worst a fringe top ten gatekeeper but there is the potential to be more than that.
Mike Russow - Russow’s won ten in a row but currently is best known for the miracle win against Duffee. His only career loss was against Sergei Kharitonov yet he’s still flying well under the radar in the heavyweight division (ranked 20th currently).
Brendan Schaub - May have a real future in the division and one of the better prospects to come off TUF in years. He’s only got 9 fights under his belt but he‘s already generating a lot of discussion. The UFC looks to be placing him as their legend killer, retiring Gonzaga and Cro Cop in his last two fights, up next is legend on the brink of retirement Big Nog at UFC 134.
Ray Sefo - Not sure why this 40 year old kickboxer is in Strikeforce. Maybe someone should book him against Mark Hunt, no worries about limited ground games being a problem there.
Antonio Silva - Bigfoot Silva announced his arrival at the top of the sport by laying a beating on Fedor so bad that it even surprised Bigfoot Silva fans. He’s big, he’s powerful, he’s well rounded and he’s only 31 years old, the division better take note.
Stefan Struve - The UFC seems to think highly of the 23 year old Struve (he’s been fighting since he was 17) but the book is still out on him.
Cain Velasquez - The division’s top dog should be back in October and has a real test on his hands. The real talk is about when will he finally face Overeem though. Hard to believe he’s only had 9 fights so far, should be a force for a long time to come.
Herschel Walker - Pretty darn good ambassador for the sport but him being a fighter is pure freakshow. Wonder if he will get a third Strikeforce bout now that Zuffa is calling the shots?
Fabricio Werdum - Wonder if Werdum sometimes feels like the Rodney Dangerfield of MMA? He’s ranked as the number 2 fighter in the world but he’s barely getting better betting odds against Overeem than Rogers is getting against Barnett. He was the first guy to take out Fedor and he did it a minute into their fight not to mention he holds a victory over Overeem from their Pride days. Can’t get no respect.
A couple of notables outside of Zuffa
Cole Konrad - Talk about pedigree, the Bellator heavyweight champion‘s amateur resume is huge. He’s 7 fights into his MMA career and ranked 18th already. Trains with Brock Lesnar’s deathclutch team. This is a guy one would think would really be going places in the sport, shame he’s boring as hell in the cage. Not sure who else Bellator is going to find for him to fight.
Pedro Rizzo - Not sure why Pedro Rizzo is still ranked, he hasn’t even fought in a year and his last fight was against Ken Shamrock. There must be some place where they are pulling rankings for the consensus calculations that has a hard on for the guy. Pedro has stated that he really wants to finish his career in the UFC but Dana has flat out said that’s not going to happen and that he hopes Rizzo finally retires.
Tim Sylvia - Talk about a cautionary tale for young fighters. In 2008 he was fighting Fedor to try and prove he was the best fighter in the world and now he can’t make 265lbs and is losing to Abe Wagner. Before the Wagner fight there was some talk of him getting back in top shape and making another serious run but you have to wonder about that now.
Todd Duffee - Man he sort of nose dived too, still he showed a ton of promise and he is only 25 years old. We might not want to completely write him off just yet. If it wasn’t for the "attitude problem" he’d probably still be fighting regularly in the UFC and climbing that ladder now.
Jon Madsen - Ok so I was surprised that Jon Madsen wasn’t listed on the UFC site under their heavyweights. Was he released or is this just another case of the UFC website sucking? He seemed to be a fighter with a lot of potential.
There are some real prospects in the division but those were covered in depth on the site a little while back:
http://www.sbnation.com/mma/event/74487?page=1
Anyone I missed?
The FanPosts are solely the subjective opinions of Bloody Elbow readers and do not necessarily reflect the views of Bloody Elbow editors or staff.
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So are you up on A. Overeem or not?
You crushed him then showed some love. Are you hedging or what??? Is he a can or gonna be the champ?
by Fedornuthugger on May 22, 2011 10:22 PM EDT reply actions
We just don’t know about him yet because he hasn’t fought the guy he needs to fight yet. I hit both sides because it could go either way depending on he upcoming fights. Regardless of what people say he’s still a big unknown at heavyweight.
Yeah,
Alistair has improved his striking a ton (especially tightening up his outside skills because of the ban on real clinch striking in K-1) but has still faced the same old problems (folding under the pressure of a relentless fighter- Sergei a few years ago showed it even though Reem was a comfortable HW; Hari blew him out of the water; Spong and Saki looked REAL good against him early before gassing/ collapsing respectively).
And he still hasn’t fought a good wrestler in forever. But he does have the tools. Maybe Alistair has really put it all together… we just don’t know.
Good summation tho, who me. Really good analysis of all the relevant players at HW.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 23, 2011 3:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Carwin is coming off a layoff and has pretty blatant cardio issues, if dos Santos can take him into the second round he may be able to pick him apart. Carwin has really good wrestling (that we rarely get to see) so he could try to grind it out but he’ll probably swing for the fences and tire himself out again.
I don't disagree with much here, but there are a few points to be contested and some pdl opinion.
- I don’t know that Duffee had a real bad attitude problem. I think Monte Cox does though.
- I’m about as big of a Pride fan as you’ll find, but Nog is done. His prime was at least eight years ago. UFC title or not, he’s looked shitty since the Barnett fights.
- Ugly Warpath win aside, Rogers is a legitimate top heavyweight.
- If refs in MMA knew when to take points and call fouls, Kongo would not be a good gatekeeper. He makes Holyfield look like an angel.
- God dammit Cro Cop. God dammit.
- Mir is not very good. His Drysdale inspired BJJ game is not meant for MMA, especially when you are so much less talented than Drysdale. His cardio sucks, and he has no submission wins outside of the first half of the first round. Ring IQ? He’s never heard of it.
- Griggs is not a talented fighter, but he has all the intangibles you need to win. Interesting dude and fun to watch.
- Pedro Rizzo… damn. Nice guy, but his record since 2003 is so bad. The win over Goodridge wasn’t even that dominant or pretty. Not sure how he’s considered relevant.
- Cormier is strong and quick for his size with natural punching power and absurdly heavy hips. That’s enough for success at the weight.
- Forget it Jake. It’s heavyweight.

"Someone is WRONG on the internet. What do you want me to do? LEAVE? Then they'll keep being wrong!"
-Randall Munroe
I don’t know that Duffee had a real bad attitude problem. I think Monte Cox does though.
I put the attitude problem bit in quotes for a reason :D I think there is a lot going on behind the scenes with quite a few guys that I’m just not in the loop for knowledge about, Duffee is one of them. What does it say about guys like Cox and Pavia when they make MC Hammer look like a better choice to manage your career? Man I wish someone would put together a story on managers in MMA.
I’d like to see him fight more often and to be better booked. I agree he’s legit I just think they are burning him up with crazy bookings and long layoffs.Ugly Warpath win aside, Rogers is a legitimate top heavyweight.
If refs in MMA knew when to take points and call fouls, Kongo would not be a good gatekeeper. He makes Holyfield look like an angel.
Kongo a dirty fighter, say it isn’t so :D Still who ever said that a gatekeeper had to be a good sport? Sometimes they are dicks who like to kick you in the nuts.
Mir is not very good. His Drysdale inspired BJJ game is not meant for MMA, especially when you are so much less talented than Drysdale. His cardio sucks, and he has no submission wins outside of the first half of the first round. Ring IQ? He’s never heard of it.
Mir wins fights that he needs to win. Lets face it at heavyweight no one is really that good, even the top ten guys at heavyweight would have trouble just surviving at light heavyweight. Being a decent fighter can make you a star in the heavyweight division. Mir is good enough that he sits in the top ten (although I agree with pretty much everything you said there, particularly the ring IQ bit).
Agree on Cro Cop and Nog. Why is Pedro Rizzo still fighting? Why the hell is he still ranked? Chad Griggs MMA career makes me smile, particularly because it’s based on the corpse of Bobby Lashley’s MMA career and Griggs is taking advantage of his opportunity.
Griggs
That’s a good summary of the guy. I became a fan of his after the Lashley fight, then seeing his last fight live. I was going nuts.
"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.
yea its hard to root against the guy
good for him for grabbing a spot in the big leagues when he was simply brought in to lose
"I have smoked weed with alot of UFC champions" - Joe Rogan
"Você ta fudido. Se vai levar muita porrada, ta ligado?" - Anderson Silva
And I mean really...
He’s Don Frye’s boy. How CAN you root against him?
"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.
Jon Madsen - Ok so I was surprised that Jon Madsen wasn’t listed on the UFC site under their heavyweights
Was he released or is this just another case of him really sucking? He seemed to be a fighter with a lot of potential to bore people to death with his one-dimentionalness.
from birth to death, its just like this.
He just lost to Mike "Comeback" Russow
It was his first professional MMA loss, so I don’t think he’s cut by the UFC yet but that is certainly a step in the wrong direction.
good post!
Although, i would have liked some concluding opinions but i know it’s hard as hell. there are a couple of x-factors (Barnett, Overeem, Werdum, Fedor etc) and the division is pretty f-ing far from settled…it’s gonna be interesting for sure
Few notes-
Rizzo is only ranked because of his upset win over Monson a while back.
Conrad has been boring in the past, but ran through Grove like nothing and I think he’s really working on his submission game. Paulson seems to be developing him into a real CSW machine.
Again though, great list. Rec’d
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
Rizzo vs Monson 2 was September 2009, since then he’s fought Goodridge and Shamrock. Currently Rizzo is tied at 18 with Cole Konrad, Monson is ranked 25. Even counting the Monson wins his ranking doesn’t make much sense. Rizzo hasn’t even fought in a year now, why is he ranked over guys like Russow and Struve?
Monson was fringe top 10
I agree that it’s an inflated ranking, but a top 10ish win is better than any of the wins Russow and Struve have.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 23, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Monson was ranked 14 when they fought the second time (nearly two years ago). Before that fight he was absolutely mauled by Gilbert Yvel, he’s fought Goodridge and Ken Shamrock since then and his ranking has pretty much stayed the same. Heck Rizzo hasn’t even fought at all in a year now.
Russow may not have a victory against someone ranked as high as Monson was then but he is on a ten fight win streak and both him and Struve’s strength of opponents is light years above Goodridge and Ken Shamrock (can you get any lower in 2010 than those two?). I can see why Rizzo got the ranking he did in 2009 but at one point does that not make any sense anymore?
It'll deflate eventually.
Systems like MMAElo and FightMatrix give alot of weight to simply winning, so sometimes you get some anomalies.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 23, 2011 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Overeem vs Werdum 2 is a more important match up. Anyone vs Josh Barnett would of been a bigger fight pre-2008. Since Barnett came back in 2008 he hasn’t fought anyone of note besides Monson, combine that with his “issues” and you have a guy who has been cruising on his pre-2006 accomplishments for years now. Barnett could very well redeam himself as a top fighter in the near future but as things stand now his last top ten opponent beaten was a split decision against Big Nog in 2006 (and Nog beat him 3 months later).
Personally I would really love a Mir/Barnett fight. Seriously. Then again, I genuinely want Fitch/Shields…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 24, 2011 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions
I would enjoy both of those.
Fitch and Shields are 1-1 against each other in grappling comp. Shields choked Fitch, and Fitch won on points in the rematch. Would LOVE to see a rubber match in MMA.
I think Fitch takes it, I like his striking better, and their grappling matches showed that Fitch was the superior wrestler.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 24, 2011 1:13 AM EDT up reply actions
Who do u like for Overeem vs Werdum? Rogers vs. Barnett? Then overall winner?
by Fedornuthugger on May 23, 2011 11:40 AM EDT reply actions
I think Barnett is going to win his side, it’s a bunch of stand up guys vs the one wrestler on his bracket and Overeem hasn’t been tested by a quality wrestler at heavyweight yet either which gives Josh an advantage in most of the possible match ups (Silva’s size/strength could be an issue if he makes it to the finals). If this was 2006 I would just assume Barnett would walk all over all these guys but it’s not 2006 anymore so it should be interesting.
Still I’m not going to bet against Overeem beating them all. By the end of the year I think everyone’s questions about him will be answered one way or the other.
I’d love to see Brett Rogers go on a tear through this thing but realistically I don’t see that happening.
Kharitinov
I want to see Kharitinov go on a KO tear, that would be nuts. I think Rogers needs some lesser competition for a while, as I think you stated in the article. I am actually hoping for a Kharitinov/Rogers second round, that would be great. I’m no Barnett fan.
"I am going to punch faces." --Wanderlei Silva
War Miller Bros.
I am still interested in seing fedor vs cain
Sounds like Springfield's got a discipline problem.
- Maybe that's why we beat them at football nearly half the time.
Fedor is too small to fight Cain. Hopefully Fedor will drop to LHW.
If not, his career is almost over!
by Fedornuthugger on May 24, 2011 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Two losses in a row
and Fedor is done. I think this should be called the reverse bandwagon jump maneuver. It has NOTHING to do with Fedor being too small. It has everything to do with his outdated training regimen. As for his age, it may be a factor, difficult to know yet.
Werdum beat Fedor, Dos Santos beat Werdum, Joaquim Ferreira beat Dos Santos. Therefore Ferreira is WAAAAY better than Fedor. Keep MMA math alive!
Fedor is small for a heavyweight but I agree, Fedor hasn’t really changed since 2005 but the rest of the division has got drastically better than it used to be. He was years ahead and now he’s lagging behind in terms of training regimen. Dropping down to light heavyweight isn’t going to help his career unless he also starts to modernize his training. Of course I figure he’s going to just retire before too much longer anyway.
Nice article… a lot of good information on some guys I’m not too familiar with.
Check out my site!!
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No way they cut Madsen
He lost his first UFC fight to Russow and fucking destroyed Yvel right before that.
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by Derek Suboticki on May 24, 2011 2:31 PM EDT reply actions
Still though,
getting outstruck throughout by Mike Russow isn’t exactly the most impressive thing you can do.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 24, 2011 9:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Good article
But i have one question…what is the big difference between being 32 and 31? you say with cormier that time is against him because he’s 32 but Mir and Bigfoot can be in the division for a long time because theyre 31?
Is there some rule about turning 32 like NFL running backs turning 30?
Cormier just started MMA at the end of 2009. He’s a 32 year old green prospect, Mir started fighting in 2001 and Bigfoot started fighting in 2005. If Cormier takes 6 years to come into his own as a top star like it’s taken Bigfoot then he would be 38 (two years older than Shane Carwin who is talking about not having a lot more time left in the sport). Mir and Silva are top ten guys now and could fight for another 4-5 years, Cormier doesn’t have 5+ years to grow into a top level guy like they did because he started later in life.
Why does everyone always say
that the heavyweight class is so weak? If it was so weak, why arent the LHW’s going up in weight to crush the pitiful heavyweights? Answer… because they realize they have a better chance at LHW!
Who at LHW is so good that they are better than Carwin, Velasquez, Lesnar, Struve, Schaub, Nelson, JDS, Bigfoot, Werdum, or the Reem? I have heard how weak the HW class is in MMA since they had a HW class. It seems like it is just the thing to say to sound smart. Who is the world beater at LHW? A few months ago it was Rua, now it is Jones.
Werdum beat Fedor, Dos Santos beat Werdum, Joaquim Ferreira beat Dos Santos. Therefore Ferreira is WAAAAY better than Fedor. Keep MMA math alive!
They aren’t going up in weight to crush them because the guys at heavyweight would still have 40 to 50 lbs on them. Not everyone wants to be Randy Couture (who was a top ten heavyweight giving up 40+ lbs and 10 to 12 years to most of them). Jon Jones walking around weight is around 217lbs, Shane Carwin has to cut to make 265lbs and even Cain Velazquez (a small heavyweight at 244lbs) would have a significant size advantage. Jones would have to put on 20lbs to his “not training” weight to get up there with them. Even Fedor who everyone says is absolutely tiny for a heavyweight comes in at 230lbs. Just because Rampage can get fat when he isn’t fighting and hit 250lbs or so it doesn’t mean he could fight at that weight but that’s about what he would need to weigh to be a heavyweight. Light Heavyweight is the premier weight class for the sport, heavyweight is just now starting to get to a respectable skill level for the fighters (for goodness sake freaking Pedro Rizzo is a top 20 heavyweight).
Your size argument is true to some degree but if the HW class is just so very weak, the “much better” LHW class should be able to overcome that with skill and a little bulking up. BTW the UFC champ at HW is a pretty small guy for HW so that kind of dings your argument a bit.
How is the LHW class the premier class? Forrest Griffin held the title for gosh sakes, then got completely humiliated by a middle weight.
I think the established weight classes in the UFC (not the newly established lighter weight classes) are all equal. If one class becomes more stacked, fighters tend to move to a class that has less talent and in the end it all evens out.
Werdum beat Fedor, Dos Santos beat Werdum, Joaquim Ferreira beat Dos Santos. Therefore Ferreira is WAAAAY better than Fedor. Keep MMA math alive!
I just have a comment about your quote:
Werdum beat Fedor, Dos Santos beat Werdum, Joaquim Ferreira beat Dos Santos. Therefore Ferreira is WAAAAY better than Fedor. Keep MMA math alive!
LOL yeah and Sokoudjou beat Ferreira, and Houston Alexander (and the rest of the world) beat Sokoudjou… So is Alexander better than Fedor, Werdum, Dos Santos, and Ferreira?? “Keep MMA math alive!” What a stupid fucking quote.
by Brennan Linn on May 25, 2011 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I read your response several times and can’t make any sense out of it. My quote was to illustrate the ridiculousness of using MMA math, not a statement in support of it.
Werdum beat Fedor, Dos Santos beat Werdum, Joaquim Ferreira beat Dos Santos. Therefore Ferreira is WAAAAY better than Fedor. Keep MMA math alive!
That makes sense. It’s a stupid quote. I read it several times and couldn’t realize why anyone would have that at the bottom of every post they make. It really wasn’t a personal attack on you, just a comment about the quote. I wasn’t sure if you were joking or not… LOL next time I will use my better judgment and assume so.
by Brennan Linn on May 25, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
The UFC HW champ is a small heavyweight in that he only has 40 to 45lbs on light heavyweights, guys like Carwin have to cut to even hit 265lbs. This isn’t just putting on a little bit of bulk it’s guys needing to put on 50+ lbs of bulk.
How is the LHW class the premier class? Forrest Griffin held the title for gosh sakes, then got completely humiliated by a middle weight.
Griffin got humiliated by one of the greatest fighters to ever step in a cage, that tells us nothing about heavyweight though (where the number one ranked fighter who holds the UFC belt has only had 9 fights so far and the guy he beat only had 7 and the guy before that was a should of been retired light heavyweight and the guy before that was Tim Sylvia).
No the tendency is for pretty much anyone who can to cut down to cut down to the absolute lowest weight class they can possibly make, it’s extremely rare for someone to go up a weight class and normally happens only if someone is having too many problems making one weight class or they are specifically avoiding a team mate. Fighters try to get the biggest weight advantage they can possibly get. Heavyweight is also different in that it’s a 60lb difference stretch instead of 10 to 15 lbs.I think the established weight classes in the UFC (not the newly established lighter weight classes) are all equal. If one class becomes more stacked, fighters tend to move to a class that has less talent and in the end it all evens out.
Of course you don’t have to look much farther than the weight class numbers in the UFC to show where the talent isn’t even across the weight classes. The UFC has 34 light heavyweights but only 23 heavyweights, there just isn’t as much talent at heavyweight worth the UFC’s time to sign (by comparison there are close to 50 lightweights, a incredibly stacked division).
I agree with much of what you say but Velasquez isn’t 40 lbs of muscle heavier than LHW’s. Cain has a fairly high body fat percentage compared to most any LHW.
Your example of Velasquez having only 9 fights is not the greatest example for your argument though. Jones absolutely destroyed Rua and he only had 13 fights. Only 7 in the UFC. Once the Strikeforce HW’s come to the UFC, I think you could make an argument the HW class will be the strongest in the UFC.
Also, your argument about always going down in weight is not true. BJ Penn just went up in weight for his last fight.
Werdum beat Fedor, Dos Santos beat Werdum, Joaquim Ferreira beat Dos Santos. Therefore Ferreira is WAAAAY better than Fedor. Keep MMA math alive!
Really?
I wouldn’t put Cain anything over 12-15% bodyfat.

Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
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by ElliotMatheny on May 25, 2011 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I think that the point is, Cain’s lean mass is probably not too much different than Jones’ for example.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 27, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Jones is borderline HW.
Cain is a classic cruiserweight. A cut to 205 is likely too much to be productive, but he’s already built enough that bulking up would be counterproductive for him.
The dude got right back up against Lesnar so it’s obvious that the size difference isn’t insurmountable for him. And we all know how well a skilled, fast heavyweight can do (See Emelianenko, Fedor and Tyson, Mike).
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 28, 2011 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions
So when I said that it was rare for someone to go up in weight you pointed out one guy and think that changes the point? I didn’t say it never happens just that it is very rare (Penn was the welterweight world champion in 2004, he’s split time between the two divisions his entire career but when he went up to 170lbs the first time it was because the UFC got rid of the 155lb weight class). For every example you could come up with for a guy going up a weight class you can find ten to twenty examples of guys going down a weight class.
Jon Jones 9th fight was Jake O’Brian, he was nowhere close to a title shot at 9 fights, hell he wouldn’t of got the title shot he got if it wasn’t for Rashad getting injured.
Population Distribution
There just aren’t that many people who can be in fighting shape at that weight.
Guillotine.
Mike Russow for dark horse of the list
I would love to see him fight Griggs
¬_¬
by ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ on May 24, 2011 7:05 PM EDT reply actions
Nice post, BUT
Words to describe Frank Mir:tough, fragile, dangerous, world champion, dick.
Seriously, Frank has (for a HW) slick submissions and decent power and technique standing. But tough? That’s the one thing that he is not. In cage, he does not handle punches all that well.
true
but I was more talking about in cage toughness (which is more relevant to how good a cage-fighter he is). Frank doesn’t deal w/ getting hit all that well. While I wouldn’t exactly say that he has a glass chin or anything, neither would I describe him as tough.
you really want to like the guy but then he opens him mouth and it all goes out the window.
I actually like when Mir opens his mouth. So many other fighters talk shit like he does and people love them. Why is Frank at fault for being arrogant and a “dick”?

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