Chael Sonnen Dug Himself a Hole, CSAC Buried Him in It
by Mike Fagan on May 19, 2011 12:00 PM EDT
in UFC Editorial
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Following the California State Athletic Commissions's decision to suspend Chael Sonnen indefinitely (read: until his license expires on June 29), Michael Bisping took to Twitter to offer his sympathy. To preface, Sonnen revealed during the hearing that the UFC targeted him and Bisping as coaches for the upcoming season of the Ultimate Fighter. Bisping's thoughts:
gutted for chael sonnen, people make mistakes.He paid his dues and should be allowed to continue with his career. Real shame for the guy.
I did wanna fight him,as it would of been awesome, and a no1 contender matchup, but my own personal wants aside, I do truly feel for the guy
I'm as close to a full-blown Chael Sonnen apologist as you are likely to find (at least around these parts). That's not to say I'm a fan, but he has never offended me with his outlandish comments either. It's hard for me to fault the man in an industry built around creating a spectacle.
And as someone who holds an ambivalent view of steroids and PEDs, his positive test for elevated levels of testosterone following UFC 117 is not cause for me to sew a scarlet letter on his chest. He cheated (or, if you believe him, handled the paperwork beyond poorly), got caught, and is dealing with the consequences of that.
However, I don't feel bad for Chael Sonnen today. I empathize with his situation; I'm sure he's pushing his stress limits to the test following yesterday's decision.
To say that he has "paid his dues," however, completely ignores the seriousness of his transgressions.
It not only looks like Sonnen perjured himself in his December appearance before the commission, but he provided misleading, if not outright false, information about a conversation with the head of the Nevada State Athletic Commission. When confronted with Kizer's denial of any conversation with him, Sonnen claimed he never intended to make it sound like a conversation between the two took place.
The fact that he bargained with the commission, detailing his promised TUF coaching spot and number one contender fight, and having his mother testify as a character witness just goes the magnitude of Sonnen's desperation. He has to understand how deep he has buried himself, and yesterday's strategy fell just short of getting on his knees and begging the commission to show mercy.
I want to see Chael Sonnen fight again, but until he comes clean to the commission, until he accepts responsibility for his actions and his words, I'm not going to feel bad about it.
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Good.
Im glad he is having to pay for what he did. Hopefully this will be a lesson he doesnt forget.
You Sir are weak and unable to look evil in the eye and deal with it! Jack Bauer.
by RJshock 305 on May 19, 2011 12:02 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I wonder if this would have turned out differently if Sonnen just admitted his guilt
Instead of playing do-see-do…or however that’s spelled, with the commission
This quote reminds me of Chael
The three-year-old who lies about taking a cookie isn’t really a liar after all. He simply can’t control his impulses. He then convinces himself of a new truth and, eager for your approval, reports the version that he knows will make you happy.
http://unintelligentdefense.blogspot.com
Sigh
I am mainly disappointed because I greatly dislike Bisping and Silva and I feel like Sonnen had the best chance of the current middleweight contenders to defeat them both =/
These are professionals and they should be held to a standard of accountability. I am confused why UFC even considered him as a TUF coach. He isn’t a role model. He isn’t someone who should be shaping the younger future UFC talent. The guy is a disgrace. He disgraced himself, and the UFC by taking PED’s. He is a shady character in his personal life as well.
TUF is a reality show, the end goal is ratings.
by who me on May 19, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
so what happens now?
Is he just going to re-apply or does he have to wait till next year or what?
I don’t buy the stuff about him retiring!
Well. He can apply for licenses in other states, but they’re unlikely to give him one due to his situation in California. The suspension ends in June because his license expires, and I assume he can reapply at that point, though that seems like another uphill battle.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
earliest he can apply is June next year
http://unintelligentdefense.blogspot.com
by MattParker117 on May 19, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I saw the tweets yesterday that much of the testimony was based on what Matt Lindland knew and his conversation with Kizer… but he was in Poland? Do we know what was so important that he couldn’t show up to try to save Chael’s career?
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
He’s being violently assualted by Mamed Khalidov on Saturday
http://unintelligentdefense.blogspot.com
by MattParker117 on May 19, 2011 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Lindland is smart enough not to lie to an athletic commission while under oath maybe?
by who me on May 19, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Team Sonnen tried to read a statement from him at the hearing but it was rejected. It is a bit easier to write careful non-lies than respond to direct questioning though.
Getting bent out of shape over a fight promoter lying is like getting upset that a hooker won't kiss you. It betrays a deep lack of understanding of the nature of the profession.
Nope. Don't feel sorry.
Would have loved to have seen him work up Bisping, but I can live without that.
@scb0212
The Machiavellian.
Ever tried. Ever failed. No matter. Try Again. Fail again. Fail better. -Samuel Beckett
by Scott C. Broussard on May 19, 2011 12:28 PM EDT reply actions
To the tune of Candle in the Wind:
Goodbye Chael Sonnen
Though I never knew you at all
You had the balls to hold yourself
While those around you lol’ed
They took you to the woodshed
And they listened to all your lies
They nicked you on the drug test
And they made you walk away
chorus
And it seems to me you lived your life
Like a douchebag in the wind
Never knowing who to cling to
When the rain set in
And I wound up not able to stand you
and glad at what they did
Your bs burned out long before
Your legend ever did
Why didn't I know about this stuff in '95?
by rdmcurator on May 19, 2011 12:31 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Surprise, Surprise
Bisping doesn’t think their should be any real consequences for a guy who cheats.
that doesn’t really counter the initial implications, one could still believe Bisping doesn’t think their should be any consequences for cheaters because he loves to cheat.
Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure.
six figure fine I think
http://unintelligentdefense.blogspot.com
by MattParker117 on May 19, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Took his fight bonus, whatever that was.
Life is either a daring adventure or nothing. Security does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than exposure.
Oh yes. And let me guess. If Bisping had said throw the book at Sonnen, he’d be accused of hypocrisy?
"The men who get on best with women are those that get on best without them" Lee Christmas
If Bisping hadn’t said anything he would be accused of something
You retired from kick boxing in 2006. If you had to do it all over again, would you have tried fighting in MMA?
Jean-Charles Skarbowsky: No.
by rockied on May 19, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Something tells me that Sonnen will compete in the Octagon in 2012
or maybe late 2011
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
Hopefully. It’s already been over 9 months since his last fight, and will likely be over 12 months by the time he actually steps back into the Octogon. That’s a heck of a penalty for not filing in the proper paperwork. I just wish Sonnen/Lindland would come clean so that all of this could be put behind. I just want to see him in the Octogon again.
proper paperwork?
I think we are way beyond that excuse now.
by who me on May 19, 2011 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Regardless of his paperwork, his testosterone levels were still above the allowed limit.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
But that’s not why he was suspended in the first place, it was because he didn’t file the proper paperwork. And since the CSAC realized they were terrible unorganized and the whole thing had been a mess, they cut his original 1 year suspension to 6 months. Then, they realized they looked like fools who didn’t know what they were doign at the December hearing, and are now suspending Sonnen indefinitely without having proven anything.
“But that’s not why he was suspended in the first place, it was because he didn’t file the proper paperwork.”
No. He was suspended for elevated levels of testosterone. You can read the CSAC statement here.
The suspension was reduced at the hearing in December.
The commission revisited his suspension following Kizer’s statements that Sonnen provided false testimony AND Sonnen’s guilty plea in a felony case of money laundering/mortgage fraud.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
Sure, he was originally suspended one year for elevated levels of testosterone, which was then cut in half when they held that mess of a hearing in December. Why was that cut in half? Because Sonnen convinced them that their own procedures as to how he was supposed to disclose his condition were unclear. ie. not filing the proper paperwork.
And Tuesday, Kizer said that he was now recalling having discussions about this with Lindland… What makes Kizer’s word any better than Sonnen when he’s suddenly changing his story now?
“Sure, he was originally suspended one year for elevated levels of testosterone, which was then cut in half when they held that mess of a hearing in December.”
OK, but that’s not what you claimed in your first post, which was:
“But that’s not why he was suspended in the first place, it was because he didn’t file the proper paperwork.”
And that’s what I was refuting.
Did Kizer ever claim he had not talked to Lindland? Because I’ve been under the impression that that was known before yesterday’s hearing.
This still doesn’t change the fact that Sonnen insinuated that he talked to Kizer, Kizer denied it, and Sonnen is backtracking.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
You’re right, I mis-wrote initially. I meant to say that the 6 month suspension Chael got wasn’t because of his high level of testosterone, it was because of the paperwork crap. Anyways, that’s old news now.
And here’s an article where Kizer says he’s never talked to Sonnen’s management about an exemption for his testosterone treatments. link
Asked if Sonnen’s management sought a therapeutic use exemption for prescribed testosterone on the fighter’s behalf, Kizer simply told ESPN.com, "no."
That’s not exactly what he told at the CSAC hearing Tuesday… he said he did talk to Lindland about testosterone treatments. So what happened? They talked about it, but Lindland never actually demanded the exemption? What if Lindland thought he got the okay to go ahead during that conversation and told Sonnen everything was good to go? It might just all be a huge misunderstanding.
As far as I recall, Kizer’s version is that Lindland approached him to discuss the treatments, but never mentioned Sonnen or any specific fighter, instead just asking about how the process of an exemption works. Lindland alleged to having followed it up with an email, but wasn’t able to find a copy of it to present to the commission. Kizer said he knew nothing of the email and the NSAC also had no copy of it archived.
This could only be a misunderstanding in the same sense it’d be one if I cleaned out your bank account and was caught and, in my defense, said I understood a statement from you that you were not completely averse to lending money in the correct circumstances as a license to steal.
by PlutoCps on May 19, 2011 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
“You’re right, I mis-wrote initially. I meant to say that the 6 month suspension Chael got wasn’t because of his high level of testosterone, it was because of the paperwork crap.”
I hate to do this, but this isn’t correct. He was suspended for elevated levels of testosterone. The suspension was reduced at the hearing. That doesn’t change the fact that he was still suspended for his testosterone levels, though.
“That’s not exactly what he told at the CSAC hearing Tuesday… he said he did talk to Lindland about testosterone treatments. So what happened? They talked about it, but Lindland never actually demanded the exemption? What if Lindland thought he got the okay to go ahead during that conversation and told Sonnen everything was good to go? It might just all be a huge misunderstanding.”
From Gross’ ESPN article:
Kizer recalled asking Lindland if he told Sonnen there was no need to declare his testosterone usage based on previous conversations with the NSAC executive director. Kizer said Lindland denied telling Sonnen that.
“I told Mr. Sonnen that Mr. Kizer told me that once the treatment was approved, it need not be approved again in Nevada,” Lindland stated in his written declaration, which was excluded from the official record Wednesday but obtained by ESPN.com.
There’s nothing in here indicating that Kizer knew Lindland was talking on Sonnen’s behalf.
Twitter: @Mike_Fagan_13
by Mike Fagan on May 19, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I hate to do this, but this isn’t correct. He was suspended for elevated levels of testosterone. The suspension was reduced at the hearing. That doesn’t change the fact that he was still suspended for his testosterone levels, though.
He was suspended for having synthetic testosterone (“steroids”) in his system without the proper TUEC, nothing is known about his actual levels.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 20, 2011 3:20 AM EDT up reply actions
You people just can't be this naive
It’s impossible.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on May 19, 2011 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
No. He was suspended for elevated levels of testosterone. You can read the CSAC statement here.
From the press release you linked to:
A sample from Sonnen’s August 6 drug test came back with a high T/E (testosterone-to-estrogen) level, which is indicative of anabolic steroid use.He was suspended for having synthetic testosterone in his system without a valid TUEC (the purpose of the T/E ratio is to determine the likely presence of synthetic testosterone, thus flagging the sample for definitive (and expensive) testing to confirm). Nothing about the actual level of testosterone can be determined from the T/E ratio (or any other single-sample urine test for that matter).
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 20, 2011 3:17 AM EDT up reply actions
Some may think his punishment harsh, but I don't.
The guy cheats, gets caught, and repeatedly lies to the commission responsible for giving him his license. There’s such a thing as professional conduct. I don’t know if it applies to fighters necessarily, but it certainly applies to the field I work in. I have to get licensed, and renew said license every year. If I cheated, stole or made substantial lies in regard to my work, I would sure as heck expect my license to not be renewed. So I don’t feel sorry for him one bit. Maybe one day he’ll look back on this and see what he did to rob himself of some of his prime fighting years and regret it. Or not. Chael may just deny it ever happened.
by pud333 on May 19, 2011 12:47 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I believe in Chael Sonnen
.
.
.
Made ya look
Contributor at Unintelligent Defense
Lead Blogger at Ninja's Place
"...just when you think you’ve produced your magnum opus, someone shows up and takes a giant shit in your mouth. In your mouth." - Anthony Pace
Don't eat B.L.T. sammaches
by Urijah Bieber on May 19, 2011 1:26 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Holy crap!
U-beeb is BACK!
Official sponsor of Michael Chandler.
by inadvertentgroinstrike on May 19, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions
took that long
to get over the eddie wineland loss?
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on May 19, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
win win
urijah vs eddie was one of those fights that makes you kinda sad one of your dudes has to lose. But good dig none the less.
Contributor at Unintelligent Defense
Lead Blogger at Ninja's Place
"...just when you think you’ve produced your magnum opus, someone shows up and takes a giant shit in your mouth. In your mouth." - Anthony Pace
Don't eat B.L.T. sammaches
by Urijah Bieber on May 23, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions
He is free
Free to dig himself into whatever pile of crap he wants to, which he surely will. He just can’t do it in the cage (at least in Cali, for now)
I want Chael back. He’s entertaining outside the cage and dominant inside it
You retired from kick boxing in 2006. If you had to do it all over again, would you have tried fighting in MMA?
Jean-Charles Skarbowsky: No.
Dominant?
He’s what, 4-4 all time in the octagon and has been tapped twice during his most recent stint with Marquardt almost tapping him too? Chael is a damn good fighter but dominant he is not.
by TMadeBurner on May 19, 2011 3:42 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I have no pity for Sonnen here
He has no one but himself to blame and now he has to suffer the consequences.
Yes there were some good fights for him, but I can live without them.
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
I am a huge Sonnen fan, Probably in my top 5 favorite fighters. As much as i want to argue for him in this case i can’t. Sonnen has given me nothing that can even help build one valid point in his favor. He bull shitted too much and now he has paid for it. I love the guy, but theres only so much shit you can toss until some gets thrown back.
I’d rather just climb this fridge
I'm trying to be sympathetic to Sonnen but... nup. Nothing.
The man is an incorrigible, dishonest fool, who has destroyed promising careers in THREE areas: real estate, politics and MMA. He was born with far more talent (both intelligence and physicality) and given far more opportunity than most people see in their lifetimes. Sad, really. It’s basically arrogance, not stupidity, that has led him to where he is today. (Yes, it is possible to be basically intelligent, yet foolish. Chael proved that.)
The seriousness of the transgressions has nothing to do with whether he has 'paid his dues'.
All that matters is whether he has served the requisite punishment for the violation of which he was found guilty. And with regard to the PEDs, he has. He served a 6 month suspension.
Once we have established rules governing something, related ethical concerns become irrelevant.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
still going with this, huh?
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
Look, at this point I'm fairly comfortable diagnosing Chael Sonnen as a sociopath.
He’s charming and personable, he lies incessantly and is seemingly unconcerned with the prospects of getting caught. His every action is self-aggrandizing.
The guy’s a textbook sociaopath. And I don’t care, because there’s no rule against that.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
As I was saying above, he is a textbook case of antisocial personality disorder. People throw around the term “sociopath” but it’s an obvious misnomer.
"He's like Elvis in Korea! They love him there." - Mike Goldberg on Denis Kang
Antisocial personality disorder is just what the DSM calles sociopoathy (or psychopathy, which is the same thing).
And again, that he exhibits the symptoms of antisocial personality disorder is no reason to treat him differently.
Some people’s brains work differently. But the same rules apply to all of us.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Sociopathy and antisocial personality disorder are not the same thing (the DSM doesn’t say that), though every sociopath has antisocial personality.
"He's like Elvis in Korea! They love him there." - Mike Goldberg on Denis Kang
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