California Commission Upholds UFC Star Chael Sonnen's Indefinite Suspension
by Nate Wilcox on May 18, 2011 4:43 PM EDT
in UFC News
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After a dramatic hearing, the California State Athletic Commission voted 4-1 to uphold UFC middleweight Chael Sonnen's indefinite suspension for his criminal convictions and for making false statements to the commission at a previous hearing.
Sonnen was initially suspended after failing a post-fight drug test at UFC 117. He successfully appealed that suspension and got his original one-year sentence cut in half. Shortly thereafter he pled guilty on a federal felony money laundering charge coming out of his real estate business. It also came out that statements Sonnen made to the CSAC regarding his conversations with the Nevada State Athletic Commission were false.
For the most comprehensive recap of the entire Sonnen idiodyssey see Cage Side Seats.
Josh Gross was at the hearing:
CSAC executive officer George Dodd said the action was taken because the panel's legal counsel felt Sonnen may have perjured himself during testimony at an appeal hearing in December related to his ban for elevated levels of testosterone, which at 16.9 was four times higher than the state's allowable testosterone-to-epitestosterone ratio.
The suspension, issued two weeks ago by the CSAC, puts Sonnen on the national database used by regulators to monitor medical and administrative bans, and asks North American regulatory bodies to contact California before issuing the UFC middleweight contender a license to compete, corner, promote or act as a manager.
MMA Junkie has more:
During today's testimony, Sonnen revealed the UFC was targeting him as a potential coach on the soon-to-film 14th season of "The Ultimate Fighter." Sonnen said the UFC planned to pit him against outspoken British striker Michael Bisping, and the two would meet in a No. 1 contender matchup at the end of the season.
Today's ruling likely nixes that option, as the Nevada State Athletic Commission - which holds jurisdiction over the participants in "TUF," which films in Las Vegas - generally upholds the rulings of other prominent commissions. Sonnen suggested during testimony that a failure to secure a license at today's hearing would likely lead to his retirement.
Sonnen also told the commission that Dana White told him he might as well retire if he wasn't licensed today.
Sonnen dug his own grave here. He went before the CSAC and made a string of obviously false statements that he attributed to their colleagues in Nevada. Keith Kizer at the NSAC is one of the most important men in the sport of MMA. There is no way either commission can afford to let Sonnen mock their proceedings with his blatant lies.
It's a bum deal too because as a fan I could not care less about Sonnen's antics. I want to see him in the cage. He served his time on the testosterone suspension and I see the white collar crime as irrelevant.
But there's no way he can display such blatant contempt for the commissions that govern the sport and expect to be licensed to fight. Too bad, the UFC middleweight division could desperately use Sonnen's blend of over-the-top fight promotion and athletic skill.
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Now I know how all the people I clowned over Michel Vick must have felt.
"Of course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong." - Dennis Miller
i want this near the top of the page
wouldn’t it be weird if everyone hated chael sonnen for using testosterone, but then we gave randy couture the ironic nickname “the natural” when he’s been using testosterone replacement therapy for years?
you didn’t think that a 47 year old man was still fighting competitively against men in their athletic prime without a little bit-o-help, did you?
Maybe not
But there’s no proof that Randy has ever used TRT. The only mixed martial artists approved to complete under the procedure by the NSAC are Dan Henderson and Todd Duffee. Also, even if you are cleared to use TRT, your T/E ratio still needs to be within the normal limits. Sonnen’s was over four times the limit, so he would have failed even if he had a theraputic use exemption.
When Kizer’s denial of a conversation ever taking place, he claimed Kizer told him to keep things quiet, that everything was taken care of, and that Kizer had to deny it due to HIPPA laws. In fact, that law is not applicable in this instance, and the only two cases where testosterone replacement therapy has ever been allowed in Nevada in the history of the sport are both basically public record, the cases of Dan Henderson and Todd Duffee.
From Metzler via Kid Nate (Metzler’s site requires a subscription)
Randy Couture’s name appears to be linked to TRT only through Joe Rogan mentioning that he thought TRT would extend the careers of athletes in an interview where he also talked about Randy.
Not saying Randy positively never did anything, but I’ve never even seen him admit to TRT, or anyone go on record that he uses it.
This is incorrect
Also, even if you are cleared to use TRT, your T/E ratio still needs to be within the normal limits. Sonnen’s was over four times the limit, so he would have failed even if he had a theraputic use exemption.
The T/E ratio will often be outside the 4:1 ratio for one in legitimate need of TRT and taking proper doses. The fact of the matter is T/E ratio tells us absolutely nothing about the actual levels of testosterone, only that there is likely synthetic testosterone present & that additional testing is needed.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 20, 2011 2:31 AM EDT up reply actions
As I said elsewhere
I was going on this from DB at CSS:
The only name fighter who has applied for and gotten the exemption is Dan Henderson, who tests at below-normal levels even while receiving the TRT. Any fighters undergoing TRT in Nevada still need to test as levels where a fighter without an exemption would pass. Also, the rules were recently changed so that fighters who are undergoing TRT because their natural production of testosterone was damaged due to previous steroid abuse would not be granted an exemption. As Meltzer noted, in WWE, wrestlers can get TRT approved if they damaged their natural production through steroid abuse, but nobody undergoing TRT will be hired.I had assumed the "test at levels where a fighter without an exemption would pass" was still referring to a T/E ratio in a urine test, since I thought they didn’t do blood testing.
But maybe they administer blood tests to people undergoing TRT. It certainly makes a lot of sense that they would. But every time I’ve read about NSAC and blood testing, it’s been about how it’s too expensive.
Again, the fact that he says “still need to test as levels where a fighter without an exemption would pass” implies that they still have to take the same test as other fighters, and other fighters are only urine tested, and it sounds like all the urine test picks up is T/E ratio.
Is it possible
that Chael fights Bisping in the UK? I think it just might work if Chael puts in a lot of trash talking about Britons and their way of life on TUF.
I dont think the UFC would ignore a state side suspension
They could but then if Keith Kizer or George Dodd got pissed they could make it a lot harder for the UFC to host events in Nevada or Cali.
That's what I thought as well
I was hoping for a card (headlined by Jones/Rashad) featuring Bisping and Sonnen. Would’ve been awesome.
It’s possible yes, but I doubt Dana White would go for it since it would be like going against a commission.
by SamVJr on May 18, 2011 4:22 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I see what you did there
what you did there, I see it.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on May 18, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
rec'd
for that second line. havent seen it before and i like it sir!
by trickthethaifighter on May 18, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
not to mention, if he won, he would be the number 1 contender but unable to fight for the belt
by trickthethaifighter on May 18, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
My Grandpa used to tell me of a time long ago when your word was your bond.
My biggest problem with Chael is his complete lack of ethics.
personally the worst thing he did was verbally tap to opponents to get them to lose their submission holds so he could get out and keep fighting. just my opinion.
My Grandpa used to tell me of a time long ago when your word was your bond
I hate to sound like such an ass, but I don’t think that time ever existed.
"All the time he's boxing, he's thinking. All the time he was thinking, I was hitting him." - Jack Dempsey
www.badlefthook.com
by Drunken cutman on May 18, 2011 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions
I hate to sound like such an ass, but I don’t think that time ever existed.
It did and, in certain circles – the ones that truly matter – it still does.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 19, 2011 4:01 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm inclined to agree.
The frequency with which people will lie to me for no reason at all is staggering.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Ahhhhhhhhhhhh
Lyoto Machida will literally kick your teeth out.
by tito (eight and oh) on May 18, 2011 4:27 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
So, is that it?
Is he retired?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on May 18, 2011 4:27 PM EDT reply actions
Well
Considering the only person saying that was an option was Sonnen’s camp I’d say probably not.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
by Neil Manich on May 18, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
You think they’d just put words in Dana’s mouth willy-nilly?
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on May 18, 2011 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I mean
They kind of did it to Kizer right? Chael probably isn’t crazy enough to put words in Dana’s mouth, but I wouldn’t put it past him to exaggerate on Dana’s behalf a little.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
i don't believe a single thing Chael says ever
he’s the definitive unreliable narrator.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
by Nate Wilcox on May 18, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 7 recs
Perhaps
But fabricating something your boss said is pretty ballsy, and represents to me a real “all-in” effort on his part today. Almost like he’s done if it didn’t work.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on May 18, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
IMO it doesn't compare to fabricating something an athletic commissioner said under oath.
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
by Orcus on May 18, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
There were some weasel words though
at least in your report (don’t know what Chael himself said).
Dana said “might as well retire” is slightly (yet significantly) different than Dana said “definitely retire.”
With Chael, who knows though …
the word 'infinite' has a different meaning in the world of sports
which is different for the real world, which is the opposite of finite.
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
I mean, I was wrong at first too
I thought it meant he was done for sure, but now that it has been explained to me it makes sense and people are still thinking it means forever even though it has been explained a bunch of times that it’s not.
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
He dug his own grave.
I don’t feel bad for him at all. It’s disappointing because I think he has upside, but you don’t lie under oath, you don’t take PED’s without yourself receiving permission from the commission, and you don’t spend extended periods of time striking in the guard of lethal submission specialists.
Chael is responsible for all of those things, and he’s been punished for them. Not much else to say about that, really.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 18, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I Agree,
He should be punished, but he didn’t kill anybody or stole millions of dollars he was punished for both acts 6 months suspension and submitted. As for the lying well at least give the guy a chance to come back at some point hopefully after June 29th. I saw Sonnen tweet which said
“If I don’t get my license today I’m effectively retired. That came from the boss, Dana White.”now that wouldn’t be fair.
are you really going to believe what Sonnen says?
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
I’m pretty sure he isn’t going to retire, he most likely said that just to try to persuade the commission to lift his suspension, the guy does not deserve to be taken at his word at this point. This isn’t a career breaker, the guy is 34, Dana more than likely is not going to fire the guy, his suspension will be lifted sometime in the near future. I don’t understand why there are so many people feeling bad for the dude, he’ll be back fighting and if he does in fact decide to retire than he’s dumb as hell. He’s paying for what he’s done, cheaters deserve punishment, it’s all on him and no one else.
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
speak for yourself
I couldn’t care less :p
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
by Orcus on May 18, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Fair enough
But I think many fans feel like I do. We know now his license can only be renewed a year from June 29, that is a long time.
It's always a shame...
When quality fighters derail their careers and deprive us of their talent. The MW division is, simply, better with Chael competing in it. And he provides Andy with a challenge that others do not.
I believe Chael would make it up...
More than I believe Dana would turn down a money fight.
by truck on May 18, 2011 7:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Can you imagine being forced to retire after the way his last fight went? He would need to be put on suicide watch, ASAP
Thank you UFC fans. My name Stun Gun. I want GSP
Honestly
It would be terrible if Dana just severed ties like this. Just because Chael couldn’t coach TUF? People have turned it down before.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
There's a diff between turning down the position
And not even being eligible for even a seconds license, much less a fighter’s license.
Big difference
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
He'll be eligible for a fighter's license evnetually
No reason why he shouldn’t be able to fight in the UFC when his suspension is over.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
But who knows when
And how does he stay relevant in the meantime?
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
No
It just hasn’t yet been specified when it will be over.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
it means he's suspended until told otherwise
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
athletic commissions have placed athelets in indefinite suspensions before
this isn’t the first time. can you point to a time where they have never lifted the suspension of a certain athlete? You’re making too much out of this.
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
I think the difference is
Sonnen basically walked into the original hearing, whipped out his unit, and pissed on the collective shoes of Dodd, Kizer and the rest of their respective ACs…he is essentially done as a relevant fighter…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 19, 2011 4:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I have reason to believe that conversation with Dana was made up.
Reason: Chael said it.
by truck on May 18, 2011 7:51 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This shit is Shakespearian
I could totally see myself not reading this, picking up on the main points in class discussions, and pulling a B- on the test. Seriously, it’s that good.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
by Neil Manich on May 18, 2011 4:29 PM EDT reply actions 11 recs
The story arc is amazing
The meteoric rise from obscurity. Becomes a larger than life figure. People talk about how he’s changing MMA fight promotion forever. Then his tragic flaw pops up, and it all crumbles down. And then he’s lower than he ever was before.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
will there be redemption? Tune in on the next exciting episode of Sonnenball Z
by Body Triangle on May 18, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
A fall through hubris. No Greek tragedy as ever been written so vividly. Now does he die or does he kill someone???
I've got something to say; it better to burn out than to fade away!!!
Walking on the beach and cleaning my sandles of all that excess Bisping.
PS3 Network is OFF. Have you checked your Credit Card today?
i bet he falls in love with his stepmother.
And farts alot (aristophenes)
by Body Triangle on May 18, 2011 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Whatever happens
We can all agree he hooks up with somebody in his family.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
his mom did show up at the hearing
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on May 18, 2011 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think he start looking for invisible gold (Menander) hidden in Dana's 15 acre estate.
I've got something to say; it better to burn out than to fade away!!!
Walking on the beach and cleaning my sandles of all that excess Bisping.
PS3 Network is OFF. Have you checked your Credit Card today?
I read this in the narrator's voice
amazing
"What do you know about my vision? My vision will turn your world upside down, tear asunder your illusions and send the sanctuary of your own ignorance crashing down around you. Now ask yourself: Are you really ready to see that vision?"
-Huey Freeman
Yeah, I lol'd
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 18, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
what gets me
is how all of this happened after he was chocked out in no time flat by maia. and where’s maia now? fantabulously epic.
BAHAHAHA
Glorious rec, comrade.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on May 18, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I could totally see myself not reading this,picking up on the main points in class discussionsreading the Cliff Notes, and pulling a B- on the test.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 19, 2011 4:17 AM EDT up reply actions
It still puzzles me why the laundering / fraud thing was brought up
As Nate said, completely irrelevant. Purgery in front of a commission is more then enough to get him with.
it seems like an ethics witch hunt, all testimony was based not on his lies and the fraud thing helps prove that Chael will never understand right from wrong. just my guess.
Gareth A. Davies likened it to a witch hunt
But GAD is often over the top with his analysis. He did make a point that the sports commissions in the UK are independent of the government, and that using something like Sonnen’s laundering case (which he has already been sentenced on) to deny a sportsman’s ability to compete is a form of stopping them from earning a living and falls under a block of trade act (might not exactly be called that, but GAD mentioned it on last week’s ESPN MMA Live)
I agree
This is awful. I understand lying under oath is very severe many men and women went to jail not for the act but just perjuring themselves under oath, but indefinite suspension common it’s not like the guy killed somebody.
He committed a(nother) felony. He’s lucky if the suspension is the end and Karen Chappelle doesn’t bring a criminal prosecution against him.
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter @davidbix.
by David Bixenspan on May 18, 2011 9:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Why hopefully? He committed a serious felony and used the commissions and their top guys as pawns in the process.
“it’s not like the guy killed somebody” but COME ON.
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter @davidbix.
by David Bixenspan on May 18, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I don’t condone what he did but don’t you think jail is a little extreme?
Perhaps, but the system of speaking truthfully under oath forms the underpinnings of our legal and judicial systems.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 19, 2011 4:22 AM EDT up reply actions
god damnit*
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 18, 2011 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Phael Sonnen*
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 18, 2011 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Chael Conman...?
Charlatan Sonnen? Chael Roidin?
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 18, 2011 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions
The old English way of spelling Jail is Gaol
I think we still use that spelling but it’s not as common. If he claimed to be Irish, he could be Gael Sonnen though.
Fail Conman?
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 19, 2011 4:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Defining point of his character?
Evidence of his lack of rehabilitation?
Some BS they could bring up to make him look bad mostly
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
"as a fan I could care less about Sonnen's antics"
But on the less smartass note, Sonnen earned all of this.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on May 18, 2011 4:29 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
Damn right he did.
You Sir are weak and unable to look evil in the eye and deal with it! Jack Bauer.
Ugh
It may be his own fault, but it sure sucks for fans. The MW division is borderline boring already, and Chael’s departure makes an already thin/dull division thinner and duller.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
SF merge to the rescue.
You Sir are weak and unable to look evil in the eye and deal with it! Jack Bauer.
Not a bad point
as far as Chael replacements go, you could do worse than Mayhem.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on May 18, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot WORSE.
I still want to Jacare and Maia fight. Talk about some fucking sick BJJ.
You Sir are weak and unable to look evil in the eye and deal with it! Jack Bauer.
Anderson is going to retire in a couple of fights most likely
And then it will be a free for all.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
I wouldn't be surprised if he retires after Okami.
If he beats Okami, I can see him retiring.
You Sir are weak and unable to look evil in the eye and deal with it! Jack Bauer.
Nah
I think GSP is still on the table.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on May 18, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Really.
I dont know. I dont think he will. Will Silva weight a year while GSP put son weight. Just to potentially get wrestle fucked for five rounds?
You Sir are weak and unable to look evil in the eye and deal with it! Jack Bauer.
The PPV money involved is gonna be huge.
If Dana makes the right offer, I think both of them will soften on the issue and make that fight happen. Silva waits almost a year between fights as is.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on May 18, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
Hmm. Very good point.
The Money they both would make, will probably make GSP want to put that weight on a little faster. How much do you think they could plan to make from this fight?
You Sir are weak and unable to look evil in the eye and deal with it! Jack Bauer.
I have no clue what the actual dollar figures would be
but I get the impression that the guys who had a cut of UFC 100 made a ludicrous amount of money, and I think this would have the potential to approach that.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on May 18, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions
I bet. They could GSP vs Silva.
and as a Co-they could drop Aldo or Cain on that card.
You Sir are weak and unable to look evil in the eye and deal with it! Jack Bauer.
scratch that.
It needs to be. GSP vs Silva for MW Title.
Cain vs carwin/dos santos or Jones vs whoever for title. Both are big draws.
Then throw the Bantem weight title as the fight starter
You Sir are weak and unable to look evil in the eye and deal with it! Jack Bauer.
No way
There is no justification to throw in a non-drawing third title and create more title-fight-free cards after this.
What they will do is, they will build it like UFC 100. They will have GSP vs. Silva plus another title fight with some big names in it. In addition they will have one contender fight and two big-name fights.Example (just for illustration what the card could look like. Not saying these fights will or even can get made):
Sivla vs GSP
Jones vs. Rashad
Chael Sonnen vs. Dan Henderson
Lyoto Machida vs. Ryan Bader
Nate Marquard vs. Thiago Alves
"A belt only covers two inches of your ****and the rest you need to back up on your own." Royce Gracie (allegedly...I just read it somewhere and thought it was cool for my sig!)
I'd buy it twice.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
by Dave Strummer on May 18, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
since he became famous in Brazil he has actually said he was going to continue fighting for the next 6 to 10 years
but I’m aware I could be getting silva’d
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
i could see it...
he did say here that he didnt want to walk away from his belt he wanted someone to come and take it from him.
by trickthethaifighter on May 18, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions
A.Silva is lucky
Sonnen was Silva’s only threat. Silva will reign supreme for years at MW.
nope cheal is the one lucky
he did not go to prison and silva was injured and cheal was using steroid .
by TigerTD on May 18, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
nate looks like such a wiener in that pic
Hopefully he’s not behind me…oh god… (choking noises) (loud plop sound, like a body hitting the floor) (a clicking sound, like a lighter) (basement now smells like marijuana smoke and pooped pants).
by Body Triangle on May 18, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I mean in an emotional, non-physical way.
If Jorge can do that, imagine Chael ?
by Saul Oliveros on May 18, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions
on the juice or off it?
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
Diaz looks like he's getting nipply ... so does Gil. Lmao. Jardine to Gracie's camp.
And then God created Saturn ... and he liked it, so he put a ring on it. ... Always a ninja
SaberCats Examiner | SB Nation Bay Area | Niners Nation | Twitter
by James Brady on May 19, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
People counting out Okami already.
That didnt take long.
You Sir are weak and unable to look evil in the eye and deal with it! Jack Bauer.
It makes sense stylistically at least
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
Ya, Styles makes fight.
I think Okami can pull the upset. I think Silva will be motivated and probably KO him in the second. But I am not counting Okami out. Okami can potentially wrestle fuck Silva and keep him down. That triangle that got Sonnen wouldnt get Okami.
You Sir are weak and unable to look evil in the eye and deal with it! Jack Bauer.
It's silly
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on May 18, 2011 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Jacare's wrestling is more than good enough to tap Sonnen
the guy never met a submission he wouldn’t tap to.
Follow me on Twitter @KidNate
Jacare could take Sonnen down and tap him from a top based sub?
I was more wondering if he could take Silva down and tap him from on top.
He could take him down.
However I dont think he would tap him when he isnt tired.
You Sir are weak and unable to look evil in the eye and deal with it! Jack Bauer.
Maia did it
Jacare probably could to. Jacare/Okami would be amazing.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on May 18, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn't Jacare
on “team” Black House, and thus on Andersons list of team-mates he won’t fight (see also, Lyoto, Little Nog, etc.)?
I hope not
I’m sort of on the fence about friends and team members fighting each other. I think they should, but the reward has to be worth it. A championship fight and / or a boat load of money making it worth it.
I'm on the same page
w/ maybe an exception for actual brothers, or for exceptionally close teammates.
But it should definitely be made worth their while—i.e. a title on the line, or something like that.
funny enough
the overeem brothers said they would totally fight each other. so i think some team mates have no excuse
by trickthethaifighter on May 18, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Fedor also said he would have fought his brother back in Pride
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
Maybe their brothers are dicks…very likely, now that I think about it… :)
"A belt only covers two inches of your ****and the rest you need to back up on your own." Royce Gracie (allegedly...I just read it somewhere and thought it was cool for my sig!)
yeah
in Fedor’s case he didn’t train with his brother, the only sign of affection I’ve seen between the two was when Cro Cop KO’d his brother, but I don’t think they were very close. not sure about Alistair and his brother.
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
I want to see it
Because I know Jacare can beat him.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on May 18, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Dana: You know you’re fired after this right?
Chael: Come ooooon Dana…… You see, this is what actually happened.
I bet Dana makes him "Executive Consultant" to the fighters ont he next Ultimate fighter.
I've got something to say; it better to burn out than to fade away!!!
Walking on the beach and cleaning my sandles of all that excess Bisping.
PS3 Network is OFF. Have you checked your Credit Card today?
Nobody under suspension can attend the fights.
So kinda pointless.
by Bombadilillo on May 18, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Idiodyssey
is my new favorite word.
Honey badger don't care.
by KatGirl on May 18, 2011 4:57 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I'm still angered by CSAC's suspension.
What rule did Sonnen break? He was suspended for PEDs, and he served that suspension. What documented rule of CSAC’s did Sonnen violate?
If this is how arms of the California government operate, I am never going to California, and I encourage everyone I know never to visit California. Government offices can’t be this arbitrary.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Perjury under oath
My guess is he’s pretty likely to face criminal charges for it.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on May 18, 2011 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That would at least make sense.
If Sonnen broke the law, then criminal charges should be filed.
But what CSAC rule did Sonnen violate to trigger this suspension? Does CSAC not know how rules work?
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
He lied to CSAC
I bet you a hypothetical internet dollar there’s a rule against that.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on May 18, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
How do they know?
Aren’t they supposed to hold a hearing to determine that? But no, they suspended him first and then held the hearing.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
They know
because Kizer said so, who runs the NSAC. CSAC and NSAC honor each others rulings and what their directors say.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on May 18, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They should have held a hearing. They can't receive evidence off the record.
This is tin pot dictator behaviour.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
They did hold a hearing
He failed. The suspension was brought back since it because clear more evidence needed to be heard, it makes total sense.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on May 18, 2011 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
No it doesn't.
They made a decision behind closed doors without receiving any evidence on the record.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
It doesn't matter
They suspended him, like they always do, before the hearing. You know how when someone tests positive they suspend them before the hearing? That’s how it works, dude.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on May 18, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
But the PED results are on-the-record evidence.
That scenario is different-in-kind.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
How is it any more on the record than the director of a Athletic Commission saying he gave incorrect testimony?
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on May 18, 2011 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions
If it wasn't under oath at a CSAC hearing, or in a signed affidavit, it's not on the record.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
They had several hearings?
And Sonnen admittet to lying in the most recent one?
"A belt only covers two inches of your ****and the rest you need to back up on your own." Royce Gracie (allegedly...I just read it somewhere and thought it was cool for my sig!)
They didn't.
They had one hearing about the lying – this one – and the suspension was already in place when it happened.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
How do they know?
Are you really this naive? That’s what this whole hearing was about!
Chael said he talked to Kizer, Kizer was there today and refuted such bullshit. He tested positive at 16.9:1 T/E, then lied about everything…..he deserves this, he earned it.
Not afraid to nitpick
by joker24 on May 18, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Kizer testified today.
Sonnen was suspeded weeks ago. Cause has to precede effect.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
You realize people get arrested and jailed before their trials right?
It’s a suspension not an execution.
Not afraid to nitpick
Exactly
He was temporarily resuspended until a hearing could be held. The hearing was just held and he was denied license.
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
Only if you're a threat to the public, or a flight risk.
Neither applies here.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Sonnen is not being held in jail
When a fighter gets popped, he is suspended pending a hearing. He’s not allowed to fight before then, because he’s a threat to other fighters.
The suspension was reduced in December because the CSAC thought he already had approval in Nevada and just goofed up in getting it documented in California. When the basis for that earlier reduction was put into question, he’s was suspended pending a hearing.
At this point, Chael is a proven threat to the safety of other fighters for juicing in a fight without permission.
by paythefighters on May 18, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions
PED suspensions are of a fixed length
This is an indefinite suspension for lying to the commission. Which hadn’t been established until the hearing today.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
I don’t think they’ve ever had to deal with this situation. Indefinite doesn’t mean lifetime ban. It just means they haven’t yet decided what to do.
There’s still a few months before this suspension winds up being any longer than it would have been had Sonnen not lied.
by paythefighters on May 18, 2011 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions
So CSAC wants a mulligan on getting fooled last time?
How about they just not get fooled? A court wouldn’t have accepted Sonnen’s assertion that he’d talked to Kizer without some sort of corroboration from Kizer, or a document, or something. Sonnen’s hearsay wouldn’t have been sufficient.
But apparently it was for CSAC. So Sonnen beat CSAC using their own shoddy evidentiary rules, and now CSAC wants to go again because they’re embarrassed?
No, that’s not acceptable.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Also, this isn't a criminal event where Chael is a threat to others or is a flight risk.
He can’t run away – he needs to come to the hearing to get his license.
There’s no benefit to suspending him early.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
He could. That's my point.
They denied him the opportunity to work in his field without due process.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Desert has nothing to do with it.
Only the rules matter.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
The rules do matter. Which is why Sonnen got punished for braking them.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on May 18, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Irony?
Someone vigorously espousing that “only rules matter” is defending Chael Sonnen.
by JiltedEmu on May 18, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm not defending Chael Sonnen at all.
He broke the PED rules. He lied under oath. I don’t object at all to him having been suspended for PEDs, and I don’t object at all to him being suspended now.
I object to CSAC not following their own rules in suspending him.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
The rules say they can temporarily suspend for any suspected infraction until a final determination is made:
From (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=bpc&group=18001-19000&file=18840-18869):
“18842. The commission, the executive officer and other employees
duly authorized by the executive officer, shall have the power to
suspend temporarily, any license until final determination by the
commission when, in his or her opinion, the action is necessary to
protect the public welfare or is in the best interest of boxing or
martial arts.
The suspension may be without advance hearing, but the suspended
licensee may apply to the commission for a hearing on the matter to
determine if the suspension should be modified or set aside. The
application for a hearing shall be in writing and shall be received
by the commission within 30 days after the date of suspension. Upon
receipt of such written request, the commission shall set the matter
for hearing within 30 days.”
by carpediem on May 18, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Thank you.
I’ve rec’d this comment.
Now I have something else to complain about. I don’t think commission should be allowed to suspend fighters without documented evidence. The opinion of a bureaucrat is insuffucient for me.
But at least now they appear to have followed their own rules.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
There was plenty of documented evidence. Sonnen while under oath stated he spoke to Kizer and Kizer approved his TRT. Kizer then went on record saying he has never in his life spoken to Sonnen and Sonnen has never been approved for TRT in Nevada. Sonnen then admitted Kizer was correct and what he said under oath to the CSAC was incorrect.
How is none of that evidence? This wasn’t just some rouge bureaucrat’s opinion. There was a preponderance of evidence that Sonnen lied under oath. Based on that evidence, Sonnen was temporarily suspended until todays hearing.
It's not documented evidence until it's presented at a hearing.
These things should run like trials, not popularity contests.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
I don’t understand the world you want to live in. So if a police officer is an eye witness to a murder he cannot arrest the suspect until there has been a hearing?
In the world we live all kinds of temporary restraints and punishments can occur prior to any hearing/trials/or other preceding where a finding of fact occurs. If there is reasonable suspicion of wrong doing you can be suspended from a job pending an investigation, you can be ristrected from travel (even if required for your job) pending trials, your car can be searched without a warrent, etc, etc.
This has nothing to do with popularity contests, they are simply the nessecary rules of an orderly society. If a doctor is suspected of operating on a patient while wasted you want to be his next patient because he cannot be temporiarly suspended during the investigation?
by carpediem on May 19, 2011 7:03 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Probable cause. Arrest warrants. These things require a procedure be followed.
If that doctor gets suspended, has a hearing, gets cleared to operate again, and then makes fun of the hearing process on twitter, I don’t think they should be allowed to re-suspend him just for making them look bad.
Sonnen should have been suspended for the PED test, and he was. Then they have a hearing about the PED test that determined the length of his suspension. That suspension is now over. Until he does a new thing that makes him dangerous to other fighters, they shouldn’t be allowed to suspend him without a hearing.
Detaining someone before their trial is an extreme sanction that is only used in extreme cases. The vast majority of arrested suspects are granted release on bail, because punishing them before they’re found guilty isn’t fair. Justice and fairness are supposedly the basis of western judicial systems, but punishing someone before they’ve been granted a hearing isn’t fair, so it’s only done if there’s some other danger involved.
If a fighter tests positive for PEDs, then he’s a danger to other fighters and he gets suspended immediately, as Sonnen was. But once that suspension is over – as Sonnen’s was – he gets to fight again. CSAC should not be allowed to revisit the last suspension because they don’t like how the hearing turned out, and they shouldn’t be allowed to suspend him without a hearing for an infraction that doesn’t make him a danger to himself or others.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
OK, I don’t think this conversation is going anywhere as you keep moving the goal posts. Sonnen has full rights to due process and if he feels wronged he can appeal the decision to the court system (also part of the rules). Of course he won’t because everyone including himself knows he is in the wrong and if he appeals to the courts, they’ll likely find him guilty of perjury and hand a much tougher sentence than suspended for another month.
Nobody is out to get Chael. All rules and procedures were followed (and basics of those rules and procedures aren’t just for the CSAC, but disputes both legal and civil all through out the western hemisphere).
If he feels wronged he can appeal the decision in the courts and bring a civil case for lost wages.
If CSAC had just waiting until after this hearing to suspend him again
I wouldn’t have any complaints at all.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
He lied under oath
and that lie is what reduced his suspension.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on May 18, 2011 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
The Rule? Contempt of Commission...
But what CSAC rule did Sonnen violate to trigger this suspension? Does CSAC not know how rules work?
Sonnen basically walked into the original hearing, whipped out his unit, and pissed on the collective shoes of Dodd, Kizer and the rest of their respective ACs
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 19, 2011 4:34 AM EDT up reply actions
My favorite part of your outrage
is you swearing off California. We’re lawless over here! LAWLESS!
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
The government is the government.
If this is indicative of the behaviour of Californian bureaucracy, then California scares the hell out of me.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Yea
It’s scary that guilty people get punished!
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on May 18, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Punished for what?
What rule did he break? What is the process for determining whether he broke that rule?
CSAC appears to have suspended him arbitrarily just because he has a bad public image.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
You can't be this oblivious
CSAC suspended Chael Sonnen because Sonnen lied to CSAC. They had a hearing today to verify that Sonnen lied to CSAC and gave him his due process. He failed to prove that he lied to CSAC (because he lied to CSAC), therefore they suspended him.
He lied to CSAC, he lied to CSAC, he lied to CSAC. That’s against the rules of CSAC.
Not afraid to nitpick
The hearing about that was today.
So they should have suspended him today.
Apparently CSAC likes to shoot first and ask questions later.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Shoot first…. holy shit.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on May 18, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
a sonnen fan saying
shoot first ha!! priceless
by HeadKckGdnight on May 18, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Bureaucracies are all about rules. The whole point of bureaucracies is rules.
If they don’t them follow their own rules, they’re just a rogue element that needs to be stopped.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
It's like you live
in an episode of 24.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on May 18, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I have no patience for groups that don't respect the rule of law.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
I'll repeat from above
The rules say they can temporarily suspend for any suspected infraction until a final determination is made:
From (http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=bpc&group=18001-19000&file=18840-18869):
"18842. The commission, the executive officer and other employees
duly authorized by the executive officer, shall have the power to
suspend temporarily, any license until final determination by the
commission when, in his or her opinion, the action is necessary to
protect the public welfare or is in the best interest of boxing or
martial arts.
The suspension may be without advance hearing, but the suspended
licensee may apply to the commission for a hearing on the matter to
determine if the suspension should be modified or set aside. The
application for a hearing shall be in writing and shall be received
by the commission within 30 days after the date of suspension. Upon
receipt of such written request, the commission shall set the matter
for hearing within 30 days."
by carpediem on May 18, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Pure ownage.
I’m awaiting Llewdor’s response…
by paythefighters on May 18, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions
I get the feeling
you’ll be waiting for a while….
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
Either he ran away from the argument
or his workday finished. Either or.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on May 18, 2011 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions
He got punished
for perjury. He got punished for cheating.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on May 18, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
He'd already been punished for cheating.
And perjury hadn’t yet been formally established. So that can’t be true.
Why did CSAC suspend Chael Sonnen two weeks ago?
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
NO he hadn't been
because the punishment was based on what was potentially false testimony.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on May 18, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
seriously,
today he was trying to get his suspension lifted so he could fight. he was already suspended for what happened. he lied in another committee which was under oath and that was used to reduce his suspension. which is why he was resuspended and that suspension is upheld today. due process? done and done
by trickthethaifighter on May 18, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes he had. The suspension as reduced based on the earlier hearing.
Sonnen passed that test. If they want to suspend him for lying, that’s a whole new suspension. The PED suspension is over.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Punished for what?
stop repeating your self.
by Mohammedini Hussein on May 19, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions
But there’s no way he can display such blatant contempt for the commissions that govern the sport and expect to be licensed to fight. Too bad, the UFC middleweight division could desperately use Sonnen’s blend of over-the-top fight promotion and athletic skill.
Actually, if we look at the history of CSAC… displaying blatant contempt gets your suspension reduces if not squashed.
Follow me on Twitter @lelandroling
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
I don't know
if this falls into the category of “sad but true” or “LOL, true.”
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on May 18, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
This is why I want to know what actual cause CSAC had for suspending him this time.
Because then I want to check to see if they’ve applied that standard consistently.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
LOL
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on May 18, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
No, you acting like there is no room for discretion when handing out disciplinary actions is funny… completely aside from your outrage at this situation.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on May 18, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Beyond the room for discretion explicitly outlined in the rules, there isn't any.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Spoken like a man...
who has never dealt with the real world of government and quasi-government entities…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 19, 2011 4:42 AM EDT up reply actions
I deal with the government fairly often.
They need to be reigned in. Now. Rules should be administerable by a computer – judgement calls are dangerously subjective, and unpredictabilty undermines the prescriptive force of rules.
When people don’t know what the law is, or don’t know what punishments they’ll face for violating it, then they’re less likely to be deterred from the commission of crimes. And isn’t reducing bad behaviour the whole point of having rules?
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
False accusations of abusing power is less funny
by paythefighters on May 18, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If they suspend fighters for perjury only when that perjury is embarrassing, then that's abuse of power.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
You're confusing stuff here.
The athletic commission is more comparable to a medical board. I’m very familiar with how boards work.
In a matter of speaking it is a privilege to fight and the commission has the authority and responsibility to make decisions to protect the integrity of the sport. There aren’t necessarily trials and many of the routine civil and criminal stages and processes that go on such as formal discoveries, testimonies, etc. The board does lots of work in the background and holds meetings to address the formal stuff.
The commission could simply take the stance that Sonnen has intentionally disrespected the authority of the commission, mocked their processes, and they can’t give that person a license in good faith knowing that he will continue to exhibit that behavior.
This really comes down to being honest. Chael’s grandstanding was fun to watch and all, but he tried to play that game in court and they won’t stand for it. Remember Martha Stewart? She got punished severely for not being honest and thinking that she was above the law. Bill Clinton didn’t get punished for getting head, he got impeached for lying about it.
I expect him to be suspended for the full year he should have got anyways. Ultimately it will come down to a right to work issue and he will be allowed back in.
Martha Stewart was punished for being an idiot
and confessing to a crime of which no one had yet accused her.
A better example would be Richard Nixon. He wasn’t impeached for illegally bugging the Watergate Hotel. He was impeached for orchestrating a cover-up of his illegal bugging of the Watergate Hotel.
But again, the commission shouldn’t be allowed to do these things behind closed doors. Human Rights Commissions do this all the time, and it’s no less appalling.
“The best interests of the sport” is a dangerously interpretive clause. Interpretive clauses are never a good idea.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
But again, the commission shouldn’t be allowed to do these things behind closed doors
Perhaps not, but in the real world that is how things get done…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 19, 2011 4:43 AM EDT up reply actions
In the real world governments detain politicial prisoners.
That’s doesn’t make it something I shouldn’t complain about.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
That's referred to as going full James Toney
Contributor at cagepages.com Come check us out.
Head Kick Legend
anderson reacts to not having to fight sonnen again
by fontgangsta on May 18, 2011 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 8 recs
FUCKING EPIC WIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You Sir are weak and unable to look evil in the eye and deal with it! Jack Bauer.
it's so sad that Sonnen will be remembered by most like he could actually beat Andy
when he fought on the juice, not to mention that Anderson accepted a fight with Sonnen before he got popped for pissing dirty.
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
He won 4.5 rounds against Silva.
Nobody’s done that in a really, really long time.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
Editor, HeadKickLegend.com
Still Subo at Fightlinker.com
by Derek Suboticki on May 18, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
On the juice!
Surely you must have some outrage for that.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on May 18, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
it should really invalidate that performance, yet so many people don’t take it into account.
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
I don't.
Partly because he was taking a drug that he could have been taking legally if he’d bothered to fill out the proper paperwork. And partly because I think PED prohibitions are stupid.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Okay. He was using an unacceptable level of the drug.
But I still don’t care, because I don’t understand why PEDs are forbidden. The prohibition of them is entirely arbitrary.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
every rule in everything
Is entirely arbitrary. Once upon a time, someone had to use their judgment to set them in place too.
Maybe the rules should just be thrown out altogether, as they’ve been tainted by arbitrary judgment.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on May 19, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
And maybe they should.
That’s worth investigating.
Generally, though, the rules are based on some widely agreed-upon principle, but with PEDs that principle simply doesn’t exist. There’s no justiufication for the prohibition – it just stands alone for no identifiable reason.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Widely agreed principle? That sounds like tyranny of the majority. And arbitrary. Best if we just throw out rules altogether to escape this unfair arbitrariness.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on May 20, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions
He was at 4 times the allowable limit, even with all procedures completed
Don’t delude yourself.
This is simply not correct. Without blood testing neither we nor the commission have any idea how high his actual levels were – the T/E ratio is simply used to determine the likelihood of synthetic testosterone…nothing more and nothing less…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 19, 2011 4:46 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm all for blood testing
I say do blood, hair and urine. But based on the information at hand, it is likey(to what degree, idk?) that he was 4 times the allowable limit.
His T/E ratio was over 16/1.
I haven’t seen CSAC’s info, but other commissions (like the NSAC) that grant TUEs for TRT still require you to fall under their proscribed T/E ratio.
You are still required to have overall levels within the normal range (“age-related normal range for testosterone serum levels”), but I don’t think any of the AC’s use T/E as a monitoring criteria for those receiving a TUEC for TRT, as it is only a useful metric for determining the likely presence of synthetic testosterone (which is already a given for those receiving TRT).
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 20, 2011 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions
It's possible I'm wrong
I was going on this from DB at CSS:
The only name fighter who has applied for and gotten the exemption is Dan Henderson, who tests at below-normal levels even while receiving the TRT. Any fighters undergoing TRT in Nevada still need to test as levels where a fighter without an exemption would pass. Also, the rules were recently changed so that fighters who are undergoing TRT because their natural production of testosterone was damaged due to previous steroid abuse would not be granted an exemption. As Meltzer noted, in WWE, wrestlers can get TRT approved if they damaged their natural production through steroid abuse, but nobody undergoing TRT will be hired.
I had assumed the “test at levels where a fighter without an exemption would pass” was still referring to a T/E ratio in a urine test, since I thought they didn’t do blood testing.
But maybe they administer blood tests to people undergoing TRT. It certainly makes a lot of sense that they would. But every time I’ve read about NSAC and blood testing, it’s been about how it’s too expensive.
Yes, it is. It’s one of the most popular steroids for bodybuilding and performance enhancing.
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter @davidbix.
by David Bixenspan on May 18, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Do you know what either of those are?
Testosterone IS a steroid.
Anabolic steroids work by mimicking testosterone. They just try to avoid the excessive androgenic effects you’d get from an OD of testosterone.
by paythefighters on May 18, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions
Testoserone isn’t really the same as steriods.
Actually, it is exactly the same…
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 19, 2011 4:48 AM EDT up reply actions
Yeah stupid, ok, so...
If it was legit testosterone therapy where he was monitored and it wasn’t just some steroid doc, would the amount have been the same as the guys who routinely use it to cheat?
Chael = MMA cautionary tale.
Chael, buddy, you should have just confessed to being an idiot and taken responsibility for your actions. In the words of the comedian Russell Peters: BE A MAN.
by pud333 on May 18, 2011 5:01 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I say good riddance
we dont need trash like that in the ufc .
by TigerTD on May 18, 2011 5:04 PM EDT reply actions 7 recs
I was gonna say the same :p
rec’d
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
I really enjoyed his last 3 fights though.
Even the Maia fight was sick cause of how he got taken out. The Miller fight was just a straight 15 minute beatdown and wasn’t that fun to watch.
anderson is so great
you become famous for ALMOST beating him.. even if he was limited by a bad injury and you were on roids with a b.s excuse and still wouldve gotten in trouble if the excuse was valid because you had FOUR TIMES the level permitted LMAO WOW LONG LIVE THE SPIDER!!!!
by HeadKckGdnight on May 18, 2011 5:13 PM EDT reply actions 4 recs
I think I hate Kizer more than anybody else in MMA right now. How a single bureaucrat can hold this much power, I’ll never understand. It’s ridiculous.
Yeah 5 people voting. none of which are Kizer....
All Kizer did was confirm Sonnen lied about talking to him. What a jerk.. Your hate is misplaced.
by Bombadilillo on May 18, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Lawsuit
I expect Sonnen and his lawyers to file a lawsuit towards the CSAC any day now. They’re taking away his living without just cause. He’s served his time for his testosterone issues, and his white collar crime shouldn’t have any impact regarding his fight career. I’m sorry, but suspecting someone lied to you isn’t grounds for suspension. They should have to prove that he did something wrong before they can suspend him. So yeah, lawsuit is coming, no doubts about it.
He cheated
He got suspended for cheating and then lying about it under oath. You do realize you actually do get in trouble for lying?
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on May 18, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions
You do realize you actually do get in trouble for lying?
Actually, no, every since “I did not have sex with that woman…”
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 19, 2011 4:50 AM EDT up reply actions
technically he was telling the truth
since it wasn’t proven he had sex with her, only had a blowjob.
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
You should write Sonnen a legal breif. I’m sure your reasoning would withstand judicial review.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on May 18, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
You mean you don't want to hire
the prestigious law offices of BE, Wikipedia and Someone Told Me This Sometime?
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on May 18, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions
The lies Sonnen told were the reason that the suspension was reduced in the first place
If the suspension stays indefinite for another few months without Sonnen being able to defend himself against the perjury, then you may have a point, but as it is he isn’t being denied any due process.
by paythefighters on May 18, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, but that hearing is complete.
CSAC doesn’t get to do that hearing over just because they screwed it up.
Sonnen beat CSAC at their own game. CSAC should just accept that.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
But I saw an episode of Law and Order SVU where Mariska Hargitay said that if you admit to lying under oath, while under oath, and correct yourself you’re all good. So Sonnen should be alright there.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on May 18, 2011 11:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Please read what actually happened in my post at Cageside that Nate linked to in the OP before crusading in favor of a con man who you’ve never met.
CHAEL GOOD! WANT SEE CHAEL FIGHT SILVA! CSAC BAD!
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter @davidbix.
by David Bixenspan on May 18, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
This isn't civil or criminal court
The board only has to vote, and what they decide goes. There is no law suit here. He has no grounds.
There is if they deny him a license unreasonably.
If he can show predjudice or malice or megligence on the part of th e board, absolutely there’s grounds.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
They did prove that. Today.
Unfortunately, they suspended him two weeks ago, which I think is entirely unreasonable.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
it really isn’t though. Maybe you would have a leg to stand on if he had a fight or needed his license in the last 2 weeks, but he didn’t, so who really cares?
It doesn’t matter what the “rules” are or who holds the power, making someone with a position of authority over you look like an idiot is a bad idea, and in the real world, it usually ends up working out for you.
That's an abuse of power. That's demonstrably an abuse of power.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
if you can get this upset over 2 meaningless weeks with all the evidence that came up that he was full of shit before the hearings i have no idea how you can function in the world.
The evidence wasn't relevant until the hearing.
This is some bureaucrats making a judgment call. That’s rife with opportunities for abuse.
All rules should be administerabl 100% of the time by a fully impartial computer.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
And the thing he lied about was substantial to his steroid excuse
So, basically, he is guilty of that. he took steroids. We can put that argument to rest now. He’s a cheater.
Woah,
why is everything in bold?
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 18, 2011 6:35 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I thought it was...
Just me and my work’s crappy browser.
This is weeeeeyud!
by Sergio Hernandez on May 18, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
anybody wanna give me all their money?
since they won’t need it on the 22nd?
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
by Orcus on May 18, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
unfortunately, everyone that believes the world is ending has spent all their money on the billboards, so there’s none left for you.
damn
they must not have a lot of money then, I can see why they’re so anxious to go :p
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
I read one single person dropping 175k in the NY area, so they have money, you just need to remember this plan when their head crackpot attempts to go 0 for 3 in predicting the end of the world.
damn, 175k is just crazy
this same group tried predicting this 3 times already? fucking hilarious! but they’ll never give up, that’s how my former church was founded.
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
I just hope
that when May 22 rolls around that the members of this church haven’t committed group suicide.
When I'm on the mic it goes down, CINTRON
-Joell Ortiz
by The Lethal Haze on May 18, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions
I hope they have.
At least that would show that they have the strength of their convictions.
The Heaven’s Gate Cult acted wholly in line with their own best interests, given their beliefs about the spaceship that was supposedly hiding behind comet Hale-Bopp.
If the world doesn’t end on May 21, these people should be horribly traumatised as their world-view is utterly destroyed. Or, alternately, they don’t really believe this crap.
I like using semi-colons; they make me feel smart.
Well im not surprised by all this. Still wish he could get back in the cage. He screwed himself though
Twitter @MaZZM
http://www.mazzznet.com/
As much as people are making this out to be positive news for Silva
it is in fact, quite the opposite. I am sure AS is upset that he might never get to fight Sonnen again and lay rest to unfounded bickerings from the Sonnen brigade of how only Sonnen could beat Silva.
Sonnen could not finish him off and instead got submitted by an injured AS to the same move he had already tapped out to in the past. All this while, when he was PEDs.
If anything, AS deserved to fight him one last time to show that in the absence of all the above factors, Sonnen would not fare remotely as well as he did earlier.
while I agree
I wanted a rematch more than anyone because I wanted AS to put a beating on him and silence all the haters, unfortunately for your argument AS himself does not believe Chael deserves a rematch, he has stated that he will fight him if the UFC makes that fight (as he did accept a rematch with him before all of this unfolded), but he believes he already beat him and he doesn’t deserve a rematch.
not always will those who dumps on you be your enemies
and not always will those who take you out of shit be your friends
The MMA community needs to speak up.
This is bullshit. The dude has served his time, they have no right to ruin this guys career like this. He’s obviously made some very stupid mistakes, and received punishment for them.
He hasn't served his time
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
No, he didn't serve his time
He served the time deemed fair for a guy that got an exemption from Kizer and was just misinformed of how to do so in California.
Chael is not that guy. He is someone that has proven himself to take PEDs without disclosure and also be untrustworthy for everything he tells/discloses to the CSAC. Such a man deserves an even larger suspension than a first time roider.
by paythefighters on May 18, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions
we are speaking up
with much laughter and scorn.
http://mixedmartialartsblogger.wordpress.com/
by Cory Braiterman on May 18, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Really sad to end it this way.
It really astounded me to see Chael go from beating up drugged out Filho to UFC title contender. Wish he had just been honest, but then again, that isn’t the Chael we came to love/hate in the first place.
On a side note, what are they going to do about TUF 14? Do you guys think Mayhem will be the coach?
by mountaineers101 on May 18, 2011 7:29 PM EDT reply actions
TUF 14 prediction:
it will suck. I think we can be sure of that now.
"A belt only covers two inches of your ****and the rest you need to back up on your own." Royce Gracie (allegedly...I just read it somewhere and thought it was cool for my sig!)
I think we could be sure of that before this hearing
Conducting an experiment on knocking people out in particular ways would be unethical.
If you need Chael Sonnen as a coach
to enjoy the probable wealth of talent that comes from the lower weight class fighters in next season’s TUF, then maybe you should watch something with more idiotic trash talking, like Tool Academy or Wild and Out.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 18, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions
This Sucks
Yeah Chael is a mutt who has no one but himself to blame, but I was really looking forward to seeing him beat the snot out of Bisping and re-match A. Silva. Plus he was the best shit talker in the game because he cared nothing about reality.
Maybe someone can put an update in the article, because there appears to be confusion about the term “indefinite” and what it means.
Gross posted on twitter that
Sonnen is suspended until Calif. license expires on 6/29. He’s then listed & any state in which he seeks license is asked to contact Calif.
So it isn’t forever, and hopefully he learned from Barnett and will show up on or around 6/29 on his hands and knees and beg for mercy. He doesn’t have to get them to even issue him a license, just convince them that they shouldn’t tell anyone else to deny his application. It wouldn’t shock me if a contrite Sonnen could get them off his back after August, when his original 1 year suspension would have ended if he didn’t lie in the first place.
Nope.
From my Chael postmortem at Cageside:
After that, the commission voted 4-1 in favor of upholding the suspension. As explained by Gross in his ESPN.com article and Steven Marrocco and John Morgan in their MMAJunkie article, Sonnen’s license expires on June 29th, less than a month and a half from now and he can’t apply for a new one until a year from that date. He will be listed in the suspension registry and can apply for licenses from other commissions, but the other commissions must notify the CSAC if he does. During the hearing, Sonnen said that Dana White told him he was done in UFC if the suspension was upheld. That may not be one of his famous lies. He still has no license in Nevada, where he had been scheduled for a hearing for some time this week before it was rescheduled pending the results of today’s hearing. Kizer has made it clear that he will not give Sonnen a license without a hearing, and if he applies for one in Nevada and is turned down, that’s another strike against him.
CagesideSeats.com
Follow me on Twitter @davidbix.
by David Bixenspan on May 18, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions
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