UFC Should Consider Extending Contract With Showtime, Keep Strikeforce Brand Alive
by Leland Roling on May 10, 2011 8:30 PM EDT
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Since the news that Zuffa had bought Strikeforce back in March, there has been an enormous amount of speculation among MMA media and fans alike revolving around the future of the promotion. The UFC had been trying to find a way to break into the premium cable market for years, hoping to air their international events on a network like HBO or Showtime. The surprise deal to buy Strikeforce was met with slight speculation that Zuffa would keep Strikeforce alive in order to begin implementing a strategy to take full advantage of the premium cable model in that capacity. But a majority of the talk has revolved around the idea of an eventual merger.
The major counterpoint to the argument has been that the UFC's brand power is overwhelmingly better and more valuable than that of Strikeforce. Many fans and analysts believe using time and money promoting a brand that likely won't ever pay off is a waste. Others have focused on the tangible evidence, i.e. the lack of depth in their roster, the better fights available for Strikeforce fighters in the UFC, and women's MMA being an unfriendly option for casual fans. Those opinions have resulted in talk that the UFC should simply envelope Strikeforce's roster and produce more events. In my mind, however, we've been quick to pull the trigger.
According to a tweet sent out by Strikeforce fighter Tim Kennedy, Strikeforce may being sticking around for the long haul:
Strikeforce is here for the long haul. They won't be going anywhere for at least a couple years. Woman's MMA is safe, and so are the crazy Russians that fight with us.
The popular opinion following the buyout was that Zuffa would run Strikeforce independently until the contract with Showtime ended in 2012, then jump ship and merge the existing contracts into the UFC. There are, however, downfalls to that idea, most notably the bloat that it would create by immediately increasing the roster by a large amount and putting pressure on the UFC to produce more shows in only one year's time. In the next few years, that will likely become a reality, but in such a short time frame -- it might not be in the UFC's interests to stretch their coffers without trimming the rosters, and producing a few more stars and recognizable names to headline those added events.
If what Kennedy says is true, Zuffa may take the extension to 2014. Not only would it eliminate a television partner for regional promotions eying a deal, but it may allow Zuffa to build a few stars that could transfer to the UFC in a couple of years and begin headlining fights immediately for the increased number of events the merger would add. They may not be viable pay-per-view headliners, but they could fill main event slots on cable network cards.
I'm not sold on the idea that Zuffa should swallow Strikeforce next year. People seem to be quick to believe the UFC can handle such a monumental endeavor, the merging of two enormous rosters into one and producing events as if it's "business as usual". I would be very surprised to see Zuffa go through with a large scale merger of that magnitude in only one year's time.
The best option, in my mind, is to keep Strikeforce alive until 2014 when the extension ends. Zuffa's various avenues to promote their fighters and events should give Strikeforce added viewers. The promotion can act as a landing spot for not-quite-ready prospects (think of a guy like Douglas Lima), old, but popular veteran fighters, and those unlucky fighters who lost consecutive fights but still have value to Zuffa. It would give the UFC the time it needs to work out the details of an eventual merger down the road, along with allowing Zuffa to prepare for the increased number of events it will need to produce in the future. Unless HBO is suddenly interested, keeping Strikeforce alive on Showtime may not be such a bad idea after all.
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Before the buy-out, Strikeforce was essentially a place for UFC castoffs and new prospects who aren't quite ready for the UFC.
Why can’t it still be that? It benefits Zuffa because Zuffa can have a hold on the #1 and #2 promotions. If SF disappears, those fighters not in the UFC will need another place to go, hence the potential arrival of another strong #2 promotion. Businesses are always seeking to gather assets and fight for control all the time. Zuffa is in the enviable position of doing both right now. Why not continue? The WEC was insta-branded as UFC Presents Aldo vs Faber seemingly overnight. Nobody blinked. It would be easy to do the same to Strikeforce. Branding issue solved.
I think the whole “Strikeforce is/was a place for UFC castoffs” myth can be put to rest. It was never true to begin with.
Absolutely. Strikeforce allows us to see fighters we wouldn’t normally get to see in the UFC and it’s not because they are castoffs, it’s because there are more freedoms working for Strikeforce. The reality is any one of their champs could prove more than a challenge for any UFC champ and in some divisions, like HW, LHW and LW (when you include the DREAM group), they have a group of fighters that can compete against the best in the UFC. I hope they find a way to keep both going with cards throughout the year that pits champ against champ. That is the best thing for the fighters and for us as fans. If that can be done I don’t understand why anyone would want the complete demise of the Strikeforce brand.
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There is no LHW in Strikeforce who wouldn't get mauled by Gustafsson.
LW and HW are the two divisions where the champs could get even odds against UFC champs. Diaz is a worthwhile fight for GSP, but probably wont win. And Jacare vs. Anderson would be savage, especially since Jacare got rocked by Robbie freakin’ Lawler. And Dan Henderson can’t beat Lil Nog or Rampage. Shogun, Forrest, Rashad, and Davis would have their way with him.
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There is no LHW in Strikeforce who wouldn’t get mauled by Gustafsson.
That’s crazy. King Mo, Mousasi, Hendo, Feijao, Roger, hell, even Lorenz Larkin or OSP would all prove challenges for UFC’s LHW fighters.
And Jacare vs. Anderson would be savage, especially since Jacare got rocked by Robbie freakin’ Lawler.
I’m sure you’ve noticed but Robbie Lawler hits really hard. That’s why 15 of his 18 wins have come by KO. Getting rocked by Lawler is not a knock on a fighter. Getting rocked and coming back wit the sub is a definitive success. He would certainly prove to be a challenge for Anderson, especially on the ground.
And Dan Henderson can’t beat Lil Nog or Rampage. Shogun, Forrest, Rashad, and Davis would have their way with him.
Have their way with him? C’mon, please. Last time we saw Hendo in a UFC cage he nearly removed Bisping’s head from shoulders with the knockout of the year. He would be dangerous to any of the fighters you mentioned.
Ugarte: You despise me, don't you?
Rick: If I gave you any thought I probably would.
by memitim on May 10, 2011 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That was almost two years ago in Hendo's case
pdl is absolutely correct here.
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by Derek Suboticki on May 11, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
As long as there's a pipeline
As long as there’s a pipeline back and forth between the promotions it makes perfect sense to me to keep Strikeforce around. I mean look at 155 right now, they could really solve the back log going on there right now if they could get some of those guys fighting over on Showtime.
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Strikewhaaaaat
Estimate of current UFC fighters: 255
Estimate of current Strikeforce fighters: 106
Major UFC contracts: SPIKE, ION
Major Strikeforce contracts: Showtime, potential to get on CBS
There’s not really an easy way to deal with that many contracts in a short period of time.
A possible solution is to run them parallel and stage inter-promotion fights. The upside to that is you can offer two very different products and play the brand allegiance game. Not to mention that a separate talent pool can make a more convincing case for a title battle. For example: “this guy is probably about #7 in the UFC and he’s challenging against the champion” vs “this dude is fuckin’ #1 in Strikeforce and he’s gonna go over the UFC and fuck up that champ BRO”. The downside is, well, it’s entirely arbitrary and smells far too much like pro wrestling (Smackdown vs. RAW up in this).
They could also run it as a feeder organisation of sorts but… I mean, the entire MMA world is basically a feeder organisation for the UFC anyway. It could become a specialty product for hot prospects, though. Snatch a guy fresh out of college with great wrestling and give him a juicy Strikeforce contract. Bring up the prospect just right.
Another option that is a bit crazy would be to just run it as a totally separate promotion, as if the buyout had never really happened.
Unless they make it something unique like WEC
maybe womens only or something. Why do they have to leave Showtime once they kill strikeforce? I still don’t understand why showtime wouldn’t want to have UFC on there network from time to time. Yea they want to produce it but really its basically a licensing fee they would be paying and not have to go through the hassle of producing it.
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Showtime will never produce a UFC event
I’m pretty sure that as far as DW is concerned, only the UFC will produce and event with the name UFC on it. As long as that policy is in place, I’m sure they will keep the Strikeforce brand as long as Showtime requires their own production.
For what it's worth
Scott Coker apparently just got demoted from president and CEO to Executive VP and General Manager. It may just be a change in name only, but it is definitely an indication that things are changing at Strikeforce. Fuels the fire on speculation that SF might not stick around. http://www.cagepotato.com/business-as-usual-update-former-strikeforce-president-and-ceo-scott-coker-quietly-demoted-to-executive-vp-and-general-manager/
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Not really a demotion in my mind. Coker has always said he likes to be closer to the fighters, in the trenches if you will, which is what’s he done for a long time. Seems like the place he’d want to be.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 10, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
And it doesn’t really indicate whether his responsibilities will be that much different. Still, if just in name only there is a difference between President and Vice President.
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Head Kick Legend
IMO the tell tale sign
would be seeing Strikeforce signing more talent, and considering that Bellator is angling for #2 by signing vets & emerging talent, they should get on that ASAP.
I completely agree that SF/Showtime is a huge asset for Zuffa, with both sides gaining from the merger. The question may be how well they get along in the coming months. I could see Strikeforce as an overseas brand using Coker’s Japanese promotion leverage and all around decent acumen when it comes to press.
Showtime essentially could cover boxing, kickboxing, MMA, and BJJ competitions if both sides can work together.
Who's the only one here who knows illegal ninja moves from the government?
"That dude was legit, ponytails are a sign of nobility." TheFilt™
Strikeforce did just sign Quinn Mulhern, so I imagine they will be signing other fighters.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 10, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
ah yes
I do remember seeing that now. But considering the amount of signings that Bellator has in the last few months (if you count filling out tourney brackets as signings), SF is falling behind pretty fast.
I had the vague notion that Zuffa backing would be more alluring to fighters thinking it might be a quick(er) stepping stone to the UFC.
Who's the only one here who knows illegal ninja moves from the government?
"That dude was legit, ponytails are a sign of nobility." TheFilt™
I actually have another piece coming in the next couple of days talking about Bellator’s status.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 10, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
SF has alot of contracts but
the quality of the fighters isn’t nearly as deep.
Trim the fat, roll ’em up, get them in the UFC pronto.
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There would have to be an agreement with Showtime/Zuffa...
to do what article is proposing IMO. Right now Showtime is running off of contracts they signed with SF to run an independent MMA org and maximize ratings, etc… however, to use it as any sort of feeder program would require an agreement for Showtime to run it as such under the existing deals in place.
I do agree that it would make sense to keep running SF as proposed, but it would have to be a partnership between Showtime and Zuffa to do so, not just a unilateral decision by Zuffa to do so.
Well… if an extension happens, Showtime will want a guarantee that the UFC would give them legitimate fights. They couldn’t simply siphon off the best talent. Zuffa would need to basically make Strikeforce a secondary promotion to the UFC with big names, probably to feed fans the international events.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 10, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
No one would give a shit internationally
Buyrates for the HW Grand Prix over here in england are sub 1000 if you use Amir Khan’s Primetime fight as a guide. No one gives a flying shit about Stikeforce overseas it’s all about the UFC baby.
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by MattParker117 on May 10, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Zuffa shouldn’t and won’t do that.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on May 10, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Depends what the expectation is… if they can maintain some Strikeforce talent there and Showtime will take some veterans and exchanges, that may suffice. I imagine that will be the hardest thing to do.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 10, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a terrible idea.
The sooner the rosters are merged – enabling more, superior fights – the better. If they want a feeder league, they can resurrect the name at some point in the future, but its top talent must be cannibalized ASAP.
They pulled of the WEC merger beautifully, and they’re not even adding weight classes this time.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on May 10, 2011 7:29 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Give me a break. You’re talking about enveloping an additional 100 fighters, possibly more. I don’t see it happening, and I don’t see it as a terrible idea at all.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 10, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
The sooner the rosters are merged – enabling more, superior fights – the better. If they want a feeder league, they can resurrect the name at some point in the future, but its top talent must be cannibalized ASAP.
Furthermore, what’s stopping this from happening now? Nothing. Zuffa has already stated that there are ways around this. Unless a fighter was exclusively signed to Showtime, which I’m fairly certain guys like Overeem and Diaz were not. Diaz has already been mentioned as a guy they can transfer. So, I ask, what’s stopping this now?
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 10, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I genuinely don't know.
But if the Kennedy rumors are true, we’re going to see the process accelerated, rather than retarded as you suggest in your article. NOTHING is to be gained by keeping the upper echelons of talent fragmented.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on May 10, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Again… who is talking about fragmented? They own both promotions and could technically have Coker release fighters for the UFC to gain. It’s dirty business, but it’s legal. I don’t see where the problem lies, as you are suggesting. You have a simplistic view of the entire situation, almost selfish. I want this now, and I don’t care how it has to happen. It’s too bad that business almost always gets in the way of that dream in everything.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 11, 2011 8:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I think the agreements with Showtime prevent Zuffa from pulling something like that, largely because of anti-trust fears.
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by The American Ronin on May 11, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Not if they just give the guy fights and his contract runs out.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 11, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Almost is a key word there.
I’ll get my way soon enough, sooner than most people thought, and when some people thought I never would.
When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are in a confederacy against him. - Jonathan Swift
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by Derek Suboticki on May 11, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
That's the thing about "business as usual".
Decisions don’t have to be made now. They can try to create a strategy for the distrabution development required for merging in 2012 (if they wanted). If things aren’t on schedule or if they don’t want to rush… no biggie…just keep on keepin’ on until a decision is needed. Who says they have to kill Strikeforce if they end the 2012 contract? Hypothetically, they could sign a new contract with a different network.
If rumors of some sort of NBC-UFC partnership is true, couldn’t Strikeforce perhaps replace UFC on Spike? Unlikely? Perhaps, but just pointing out that there aren’t a narrow amount of options available. There are a whole bunch.
Personally, I think it might make sense to keep Strikeforce around forever. They can change how they operate and their place in MMA as they go. Right now, most of it’s value is in fighter contracts, getting rid of #2 and maybe the ST contract. In the future, maybe it can become a feeder/developmental/minor league. After that, maybe they use Strikeforce to test the MMA waters in Japan before the UFC.
They can get creative here…
I’m selfish and want to see the best fighting the best as soon as possible.
Hardcore MMA fan since UFC 99
by ChiCubs23 on May 10, 2011 8:00 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
They can still do all this, and still call it "UFC"...
Stronger brand, More recognition, more exposure, more respect, = more money.
The promotion can act as a landing spot for not-quite-ready prospects (think of a guy like Douglas Lima), old, but popular veteran fighters, and those unlucky fighters who lost consecutive fights but still have value to Zuffa. It would give the UFC the time it needs to work out the details of an eventual merger down the road, along with allowing Zuffa to prepare for the increased number of events it will need to produce in the future. Unless HBO is suddenly interested, keeping Strikeforce alive on Showtime may not be such a bad idea after all.
They could do that, but that probably won’t happen. It depends on what happens with their new cable deal. I imagine if it’s a big name suitor like says NBC/Comcast, they’ll want exclusivity to the brand name on their networks.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 10, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Thing is, while you point out that Kennedy tweeted this…:
Strikeforce is here for the long haul. They won’t be going anywhere for at least a couple years. Woman’s MMA is safe, and so are the crazy Russians that fight with us.
…he also tweeted this a few days ago:
Doing a UFC photo shoot. The most extensive one I have ever done.
Maybe I’m reading into it too much (I probably am), but the first thing that caught my eye when I saw that tweet was, “Kennedy’s doing a UFC shoot? But isn’t he still signed to Strikeforce?”
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UFC will (and have to) eventually
get SF’s biggest stars. Diaz, Melendez, Overeem, Jacare, maybe Fedor & Hendo(unless they retire), King Mo, Mousasi, Feijao and Showtime will more likely not agree to this because they need the ratings as well.
After these guys contract w/ SF are done, with their payrate – they have to be engulfed to the UFC. There will be complications with in management if the Diaz’s and Melendez’s are kept in SF and being paid alot more than their UFC contemporaries now that they are under one management. UFC would also like to use these paygrades for possible PPV revenues.
The current SF brand will eventaully die. The only option available is a feeder league or the rebound org for vets. Which Showtime might not want.
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Yeah, I think that’s the question. What would the UFC do if they extended? Would they actually leave some of these stars in the mix in Strikeforce? Would they be able to go back and forth? Who knows. All viable questions, no real answers.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 10, 2011 10:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Fuck!
I read… UFC Considers Extending Contract With Showtime, Keep Strikeforce Brand Alive
:-/
Mike Goldberg: "You know Joe, When Matt and his brother Mark Hughes were growing up, they would pound each other behind the barn."
I’ve said before, as a fan it’s stupid to keep Strikeforce around. Not only is confuses fans and waters down the UFC brands place as being both synonymous and ubiquitous in MMA, but it’s counter-productive: it’s the same company using some of its best fighters to market something that isn’t the UFC.
But for Zuffa, from a Scott Broussardian pov , it is smart of them to keep them around:
1) it ties up one of the few major media outlets that have shown interest in MMA with their product and no one else’s.
2) it allows them to offer more events without overloading their fans or watering down their product. The hardcore fans will tune-in and pay, but there is always the risk that the casual fans are going to just give up or learn to start ignoring events if there are too many or, even worse, start to prefer the free or cheaper Showtime shows. Problem solved by titling it something other than “UFC”. Now casuals can continue to ignore.
3) It not only takes up a media outlet, it also sucks the oxygen out of the MMA world – and again without watering down the UFC brand. Now any other promotion that tries to expand doesn’t just have to worry about getting noticed in a UFC world, but it still has to compete with Strikeforce.
4) Most importantly, they can hold even tighter control over the labor market. By having another promotion that they own they can set the salaries they want while also tying up a large number of second and third tier stars, denying them from entering the market. They also make sure the other top promotion competing for talent is sitting on the same side of the desk.
There iare so many benefits to Zuffa I can see them continuing Strikeforce for at least a few more years.
from a Scott Broussardian pov
I don’t know exactly what it is, but I like it.
"I see him beating Anderson Silva. I see him picking him apart. Him at a 131 years old...(trails off)." - Tito Ortiz on Vitor Belfort at Affliction:DOR
by Rundownloser on May 11, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
the headline should be change from ufc should consider to zuffa should consider. ufc is below zuffa not the other way around.
Yeah, but morons don’t know that.
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"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
by Leland Roling on May 11, 2011 8:15 AM EDT up reply actions
I dont think UFC will be getting rid of Strikeforce
It wouldn’t make sense for the UFC to scrap Strikeforce, alot of the fighters who do not end up being acquired by UFC will find another organization and eventually grow it into what strikeforce is.
And Strikeforce has some good ideas, the Challengers series is pretty nifty and it showcases up and coming fighters who could be contending for SF/UFC gold one day.
The commentators really need an AUDIT. I dont mind Shamrock but his commentating is horrid.
As long as SF is bringing in the $$$ UFC will keep it, no sense cannibalizing your own brand if it is making money for you
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