Andre Ward Talks Nick Diaz's Boxing Skills
by Brent Brookhouse on May 10, 2011 1:00 PM EDT
in Boxing
Email
Print
One of the big "selling points" on Nick Diaz's potential boxing career has been the fact that he has sparred with WBA super middleweight champ Andre Ward on multiple occasions. Several people have pointed out that someone on Ward's level would not "waste his time" sparring with someone who isn't good. I say "not so fast" to that statement, but we'll get back to that in a moment.
ESPN spoke to Andre about his experience with Diaz and what his thoughts are on the Strikeforce champ's boxing skills:
"I appreciate and admire [Diaz's] courage," Ward told ESPN.com, while in Las Vegas to watch Manny Pacquiao's recent win over Shane Mosley. "It remains to be seen how well he'll do, though.
"Nick has good hands, some of the best hands in MMA. But professional boxing is totally different. Totally different."
The article says that Ward confirmed that he has sparred with Nick "six or seven time" always for multiple rounds.
There are a few things to point out about how sparring works. First off, the guys that are specifically "brought in" to spar for a fighter's training camp are the guys that are supposed to push them in specific ways (Rashad Holloway is a great example of a "professional sparring partner"). It doesn't sound like Diaz was brought in specifically to prepare Ward but was probably given the chance to do it on a few occasions in the same way you'd see in a lot of boxing gyms. I mean, no one should take Bellator heavyweight Josh Burns' experience sparring with a Klitschko as proof that he's got some sort of great career in boxing. Just like we all had the good sense to know that, despite claims from the camp, James Toney was not submitting guys left and right.
This isn't to say that Diaz has no ability to box or that he can't beat Lacy. But when I read those quotes from Ward they don't read like someone who thinks very highly of Nick's technique. I've talked to a few other boxers who have had the chance to spar with Nick (and in one case Nick and Nate) and they all basically leave it at "they're tough as hell and are always coming forward." Very similar to Ward's statements in the article.
I'm very interested in the Diaz vs. Lacy fight. It's going to be a great test of where Nick's boxing is. But I'm just trying to act as the voice of reason. I'm sure it comes across as me being negative, but it's just reality.
And for those interested in Ward. He'll be fighting Arthur Abraham in the Super Six semi-finals this Saturday on Showtime. You can read all about that fight at Bad Left Hook.
155 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Great article, I'm in total agreement.
Can’t wait to see Ward back at Super Six
Nick deserves respect for stepping up.
He’s one of the 5 best techn. offensive Boxers in MMA and a good indication how guys like Silva or Penn would’ve done.
Choosing a Top 40 ranked Boxer in your 2nd Pro fight takes Balls
I give him a 30% chance against an unmotivated Lacy, 5% against a healthy,fit version of Lacy.
I don’t think Nick is in any way an indication of what kind of success Silva or Penn would have as he has a completely different striking style.
www.hottopicwithphil.com
I think Penn eaily does the worst
His cardio sucks, he doesnt push a tough pace, his reach is unremarkable. I think a guy like Edgar could do well though because the pace he pushes same as Diaz.
I think it's all apples and oranges
Striking in MMA and striking in boxing are fundamentally different. I think MMA performances only give us a very small insight into how an athlete in one sport would do in a different sport.
www.hottopicwithphil.com
by Worldisart on May 10, 2011 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
But some aspects crossover. Namely cardio, workrate as well as reach. None of which Penn has so their is some over lap.
Crossover aspects like a good, fluid jab?
"A champion is someone who gets up when he can't." - Jack Dempsey
by Jack.Barrington on May 10, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
My biggest problem with Penn as a boxer would be his weight/height difference. Guys with his “size” would normally be at like 140 pounds.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 10, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
MMA cardio is different to Boxing cardio
Penn wouldn’t have to worry about carrying the weight of another man on top of him. I think he’s lost his fire somewhat but he’s still one of the most technically sound in MMA.
the guy freddie roach says has the best boxing in mma does the worst?
Well you would probably know better than roach.
"Many have the will to win. Few have to will to prepare to win."
" A black belt only covers 2 inches of your ass. The rest is up to you." - Royce Gracie
"Wanderlei eventually got to his feet and stalked Fujita like a Japanese octopus in an all-female prison." - Sean Baby Cracked.com
by the-gentle-way on May 10, 2011 5:18 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
All BJ's got going for him
is incredible reflexes, power, granite chin, fast hands, excellent timing, great technique and freakish balance.
I just don’t know what Freddie sees in him.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
by TheFilt on May 10, 2011 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Annnnnnnnnnnnnnd
he is wicked cuddly.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on May 10, 2011 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Oops sorry wrong pic....
BJ Penn
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
ROCKY MARCIANO 49-0 HW Champion of the World.
You mean
"I'm a little worried about being a slut"
~ Bobby Hill
He’s one of the 5 best techn. offensive Boxers in MMA …
No, he’s not.
This is a common misperception. You can call his striking “unorthodox,” “unique,” “strangely effective,” whatever you want. But it is not sound, technical boxing.
He does not move his head. He does not sit down on his punches. He neither enters nor exits on an angle.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on May 10, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Fair enough
Yeah, sorry, I got on a rant on all the ways he was technically unsound and forgot the original point was only defending offensive technical savvy.
My bad, y’all.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on May 10, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Has anyone posted odds on the fight yet? Ward said it best, MMA boxing is totally different.
Here’s hoping Diaz pulls a ’Reem.
Haven’t seen odds.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 10, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Brent
Are those in the boxing community more or less interested in this fight than we as the MMA community are
Follow me: @IISMASHII
From those I’ve talked to…far less
If I had to say why, it’s because Nick is a relevant figure to MMA fans. Jeff hasn’t been for well over 5 years now other than being a guy Roy Jones used to get a much needed win on a farce of a PPV (this said by someone who considers Roy Jones his favorite fighter he has ever watched)
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 10, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it has to be substantially less...
by Brent Ducharme on May 10, 2011 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions
As a fan of both sports...
I’ll admit to not being very interested. It’s nothing against Diaz, but I simply don’t consider Lacy to be relevant anymore.
Ward didnt really add anything to the conversation
I doubt anyone is expecting Nick Diaz to rise to the top of the boxing world. But with a good ahowing against Lacy he could make it a viable alternative to mma financially.
I admire Diaz more than anyone in MMA, thats why i hope this sideshow never happens. Nick gets hit regularly in MMA, he won’t beat Jeff Lacy in a boxing match, however shot Lacy is. Dana White better step up and put Nick in with St.Pierre before that crackpot Cesar Gracie gets Diaz legally bound to this farce.
by sheikybaby on May 10, 2011 1:18 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
I'm curious about it too
MMA seems to reward some really unorthodox striking styles that would never fly in a boxing ring. Every time I see Dominic Cruz and that crazy wide open stance of his, I want to yell at the TV, but somehow it works for him. I think Nick’s trickeration becomes a lot less effective in a boxing ring, and his defensive holes much more exploitable. I’m almost curious enough to pay to see it though.
Also, no news here, but Ward is going to abuse Abraham.
Tatum: I think he's a good man. I like him. I got nothing against him, but I'm definitely gonna make orphans of his children.
The weird styles I think has to do with the need to be aggressive. If you have a speciality in the MMA cage and you’re going up against a well-rounded guy, you have to really be a pain when you have the opportunity to use your speciality, you have to make a notable impact while the window is open, which means taking big risks and trusting that your skills are superior to your opponent’s in that field. So you can get away with leaving a few openings if it means being able to throw more offense into his openings. My theory.
That’s all very true, but it gives me no reason to believe that Diaz is any good at the stuff that isn’t effective in MMA fights. He has also been facing other strikers more often than not, but I see how the point still applies (like staying on the inside against Cyborg to avoid kicks).
"He's like Elvis in Korea! They love him there." - Mike Goldberg on Denis Kang
“professional boxing is totally different. Totally different.” sums it up. I like Diaz, but to me, looking good in boxing vs an MMA fighter, most of which have really poor boxing skills, means little. who has he fought that has real head movement, footwork on a pro boxing level or a striker that can throw clean combinations of more than 2 punches?
i could be wrong on this, but i really dont think he would do well
real head movement, footwork on a pro boxing level or a striker that can throw clean combinations of more than 2 punches?
Daley’s defensive skills are lacking but he can throw nice combos.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 10, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Diaz vs Pac-Man
I want to see Nick Diaz against Manny Pacquiao!
(Kidding… or am I?)
Pacquiao = 147 pounds (and not even a full 147)
If we want to talk boxing #1’s at his weight we’re talking about Hopkins, Pascal, Ward or Bute
yikes..
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 10, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
I know, I know. I was joking.
Still, you have to think that Pacquiao would make a fool out of Diaz, despite his lower weight and shorter reach.
And like you said, there would be plenty of good opponents that would be around Diaz’s weight. What’s he really going to prove even if he beats Lacy, a guy who apparently hasn’t been good in over 5 years. That’d be like Toney saying he was great at MMA had he beat a 47 year old Couture. Of course, it’s a moot point now that Couture’s handled Toney like a novice.
Yeah, I was just playing along with the joke.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 10, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
eeeh. Hopkins is bigger but it’s one of those things where like EVERY time Bernard steps into the ring you go “…he REALLY could look like shit tonight. He is old as hell”
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 10, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
After the RJJ fight, I thought he was done
I thought he was done. Round 1 vs Pascal really made me believe it. But as the fight went on he got sharper and sharper and picked up his pace. He was the fresher fighter at the end.
Bute doesn’t like being roughed up, so I think Bernard has a chance.
Pascal vs Bute is the match up they want, but I don’t see Pascal doing any better this time around.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
alot of people believe bhop carried rjj or looked bad intentional to lure out a decent fighter.its common enough ortiz did it against peterson,holyfield did it a few ties.
bute says he wants the winner of the supersix and to be ring champ at 168
Now that he knows he'll probably have to fight Hopkins
Weren’t they trying to set up the Canadian super fight between Pascal and Bute in Montreal?
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
Guess not
However as of September 2010 the fight is unlikely to happen, due to Bute having no interest in moving up in weight from super middleweight to light heavyweight and Pascal has stated that he feels no need to “chase” Bute(pronounced ‘boo-tay’).
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
certainly hope so
Fine! I'll go build my own lunar lander, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the lunar lander and the blackjack.
PRIDE fan boy
This reminds me of the time when my mom tried to set me up with a girl
and when I asked her, “What does she look like?” My mom said, “She has a nice face.”
by pud333 on May 10, 2011 2:04 PM EDT reply actions 6 recs
Nobody knows how Diaz will look in boxing.
Just like everyone has said MMA striking and Boxing are completely different. Diaz won’t have to worry about anything but punches. No takedowns, No kicks, and no knees or elbows in the clinch. His striking will probably look a lot different than in MMA. His stance will surely be a bit different. I do think Diaz will most likely lose but I find it strange that many people believe they will see the exact same Nick Diaz in Boxing as they see in MMA.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
If he does then it’s either a huge failure of comprehension on his part, or he has the worst people in the world training him.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 10, 2011 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Exactly
Even Anderson Silva preaches the differences between MMA boxing and boxing. He says you can’t bob, weave and duck too much because of the threat of kicks and knees. Of course he breaks this rule, but if you watch him box he uses so much more head movement and bends at the waist a lot more.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
Gif of Silva making Rich Franklin look foolish for even trying to hit him please!
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
Ere ya go
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
by TheFilt on May 10, 2011 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
That must be incredibly frustrating.
"Ellismania is, along with the black President, a symbol of the future." - Mayhem Miller
Tweeter!
You can see the frustration better here
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
by TheFilt on May 10, 2011 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Naw, man.
Its all Franklin.
He’s doing the Filo. That’s when you fight ghosts in the cage.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
If there was ever an acceptable time
to do what Rashad did to Forrest (The crotch grab) It would be Anderson doing it right at the end of the gif.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
I see now, why Forrest ran from the ring in embarassment.
I would probably do the same.
"Ellismania is, along with the black President, a symbol of the future." - Mayhem Miller
Tweeter!
Crazy thing about Rich
Its seems he loves incredible ass whippings.
Lyoto KO’d him, then he fought Anderson twice with the same result.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
mind throwing up the silva ducking forrest gif
Fine! I'll go build my own lunar lander, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the lunar lander and the blackjack.
PRIDE fan boy
Took a while but here it is
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
by TheFilt on May 10, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
The problem is he went full Matrix.
You never go full Matrix.
by Brandon Starr on May 10, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
life is like a box of chocolates
sometimes you get Rua with a blown knee
and, sometimes you get Silva who goes full matrix on you
by ecost on May 10, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 10 recs
I love how Forrest waits for Anderson to bring his head back up before he throws that third left hook, then Anderson’s all “nah.”
by Tedd Welch on May 10, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
I never realized
Some people might say AS was able to do this because he’s so fast … but now that I think about it I think it’s:
1. Forrest is kinda slow.
2. Forrest was throwing looping punches with terrible form.
3. Forrest telegraphed what he was doing.
I was surprised he ever got as highly ranked as he is. I don’t think he will be for long.
by CrassIndividual on May 10, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
You're surprised he ever got so highly ranked?
He beat Shogun who was ranked number 1 and than beat Rampage who was ranked number 1. Forrest Griffin ain’t no joke.
www.hottopicwithphil.com
by Worldisart on May 10, 2011 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I don’t think he will be for long.
He’s been in the top 6 at 205 for 3 years (maybe longer?)…
You’re right, though, that Forrest will never be accused of having fast hands, or technical boxing; both of which helped Anderson make him look so silly.
Forrest's last 6 fights
Don’t get me wrong: he’s a good fighter, just not … top 7ish good.
- Injured Shogun
- Barely gets by Rampage
- TKO to shad
- KO by Silva
- Barely gets by Tito Ortiz (yes Tito nearly won that fight)
- Decision to Franklin (who should really be at 185)
Basically, I’m saying he’s a good fighter, should be in the top 20 and all. Given his wins/losses: his ranking makes sense. I just don’t see him as belonging in the top 10 and staying there.
by CrassIndividual on May 10, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
This is stupid
He beat Shogun and Rampage back to back, no matter how you try to spin that it’s absolutely an incredible feat and not something someone not belonging in the top 10 could accomplish.
You have to ABSURDLY underrate his competition in order to argue what you’re arguing.
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on May 10, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I notice
That you don’t say you seem him staying in the top 10 and/or moving up …
by CrassIndividual on May 11, 2011 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
fucking. sick.
Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!
by SentientAndroid on May 10, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
the fit thank you!!!!
with all these .gifs your putting out today you get a gold star
Fine! I'll go build my own lunar lander, with blackjack and hookers. In fact, forget the lunar lander and the blackjack.
PRIDE fan boy
It's not just the movement..
It’s the complete mastery of range. He slips that final hook by a fraction of an inch.
I think the difference in hand speed between Diaz and Lacy will look about like the difference between Griffin and Anderson.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 10, 2011 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
that is just *sniff…fucking beautiful!
Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!
by SentientAndroid on May 10, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh and thanks TheFilt
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
How different is mma boxing vs boxing
Just curious. There has to be some things that translate between the two. Is it so different that Diaz will get destroyed by even a journeyman boxer? I think we could all agree that Diaz would likely beat a really low level unranked boxer … yes?
by CrassIndividual on May 10, 2011 2:36 PM EDT reply actions
I think it is very different
The difference is apparent in positioning, footwork and defense.
Boxers don’t have to worry about a takedown or a kick to the head.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on May 10, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I've never boxed, but...
- Bigger gloves mean fewer offensive openings
- No takedowns means an entirely different stance
- No kicks or knees means extreme head movement is less risky
Et cetera. I’ve got a vague idea about Shoulder Rolls and Philly Shells being less usual in MMA than boxing, but I’m clueless with boxing and I’m not entirely sure I’m not just thinking of a deep-fried food menu.
There’s really no shoulder roll in MMA.
Boxing lesson for today:
There are 5 ways to defend a punch.
1) Move away from it
2) Block it
3) Parry it
4) Duck/slip it
5) Let it hit your shoulder
The way is rolling with the punch, so it doesn’t really count.
As you can imagine, not all of these techniques will be useful in MMA.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
by TheFilt on May 10, 2011 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
There a lot more to it
Like which hand to parry with and which defense works best against which punches.
For example, defending a jab is as simple as slipping left or just blocking with your right hand.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
haha
Anderson Silva, Edson Barboza, Jose Aldo, Charles Oliveira, Thiago Alves = Muay Thai wrecking machines!
by SentientAndroid on May 10, 2011 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Not true.
Fedor has made very good use of shoulder blocking in MMA. There’s a GIF breakdown of the Arlovski fight showing him slip/ shoulder roll nearly every punch Andrei shows.
Xtreme Couture- The best never rest! The girl in my av is Kari Sweets (you're welcome).
"I swear it upon Zeus an outstanding runner cannot be the equal of an average wrestler."
-Socrates
by ElliotMatheny on May 11, 2011 4:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Shoulder rolling
is actually getting hit, sometimes with a bit of deflection, and rolling with the punch to counter cleanly.
I’m not saying no one ever does it, but its not a common technique or a useful one for most fighters. You have to be an A+ striker.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
If that was the case
He wouldn’t be fighting anyone we’ve seen or heard of. Lacey is far from a ‘really low level’ boxer.
To answer the question: There are a number of things different from the stance to the position of the hands to the way you defend strikes.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
Right
I’m not saying Lacey is a low level boxer. It seems like a lot of people think Diaz will get killed by Lacey, who’s basically a journeyman at this point (not sure if that’s the right term … he’s not worthless but he’s not a contender). I was just curious where someone with good boxing knowledge would put him. Would Diaz have a chance against anyone in the top 20-30 of his weight class? Would he be at the level of a decent boxer with say 4 pro fights? Where would you put him?
by CrassIndividual on May 10, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I have no idea
He’s got some great tools, heart, length, southpaw, endurance etc; but I’ve never seen him box.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
My boxing knowledge is limited but not exactly weak.
I just don’t think there is any way to tell until we see his first fight. The difference in stance and defense can not be stressed enough. When I’m in Muay Thai class, I stand just about straight up with my feet almost completely square. When I’m doing MMA, my stance gets much wider as I’m worried about the takedown. I also keep my hands a lot lower so I can transition to the takedown easier without giving away my intentions. I would have to see him box to make any kind of judgment call. Like Filt says below me, he does have great tools. How they translate remains to be seen.
by Brandon Starr on May 10, 2011 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
That’s what makes this somewhat interesting to me. Would someone like Diaz be able to cross-over to boxing (say over the next few years) and actually be able to work his way up to a contender position? I doubt he’d take a title off anyone good … but maybe he actually could become a decent contender.
by CrassIndividual on May 10, 2011 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions
If he completely stopped doing MMA, put all of his efforts and attributes (conditioning, work ethic, facilities)
into boxing. I would say he has a chance to be successful. Contender? That’s a tough call. Most high level boxers have been doing so since they were like 8 years old, sometimes younger. He will also probably have a lot of bad habits that are tough to break from doing MMA for so long. I can tell you this….. it would be an interesting journey that I would love to see. I mean, dont get me wrong, I want him in MMA; however, if he made the choice to go to boxing and there was no changing his mind, I would love to watch.
by Brandon Starr on May 10, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
Would someone like Diaz be able to cross-over to boxing (say over the next few years) and actually be able to work his way up to a contender position?
No.
I doubt he’d take a title off anyone good … but maybe he actually could become a decent contender.
No.
Look what Victor Ortiz had to go through to be in position to be a contender. Look at the eliminators guys have to go through. He’ll get breaks because he’s a name, but he’ll never be a serious contender, even for bullshit alphabet soup organizations.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on May 10, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Would Diaz have a chance against anyone in the top 20-30 of his weight class?
No.
Would he be at the level of a decent boxer with say 4 pro fights?
Possible, because at that point the wheat has yet to be separated from the chaff.
Watch ESPN’s Friday Night Fights from week to week. On a week when there’s an early KO in the co-feature or the main event they’ll go to a four-round swing bout. Those guys are early in their careers, but have potential to get the possibility of being televised. That’s the level Diaz is at.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on May 10, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
ok
That sounds reasonable to me. So it is different enough that he just won’t be able to be a force in boxing at this point.
by CrassIndividual on May 10, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah throwing punches translates!
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
Even that should be a little different
Boxers can dig in a ton more to throw, both because they’re wearing shoes and there’s no takedown to fear.
I was being a smart ass
I only meant that they punch in both not how or anything like that.
" Its like when I'm right I'm right, when I'm wrong I coulda been right, so I'm still right cause I coulda been wrong, you know, and I'm sorry cause I could be wrong right now, I could be wrong, but I'm right..." Bama
clearly a lot of mma fighters think so
Else, why train with boxing trainers? You want to learn how to throw punches and defend punches? Seems reasonable to ask a boxing trainer. Obviously, mma striking and boxing striking and kickboxing striking techniques are different. There is a core of stuff that makes sense for all of them though.
by CrassIndividual on May 10, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we could all agree that Diaz would likely beat a really low level unranked boxer … yes?
No.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on May 10, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
For reals?
You really think that one of the premier boxers in MMA would get clowned by someone ranked like 40th in their weight class in boxing? I have to think it would be competitive at the very least. Doesn’t Diaz’s strength/heart/endurance etc count for anything?
by CrassIndividual on May 10, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
strength/heart/endurance have been the best tools of a lot of boxers who never got out of bingo halls.
But that being said, I don’t think anyone who hasn’t been in the gym with him working ONLY boxing can TRULY say with any certainty how good his boxing is. I don’t think Diaz’s offensive punching (or boxing) skills are anything to really write home about as far as straight boxing is concerned. But I’ve not sparred with him or seen him spar to have any real knowledge of what he fights like
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 10, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
You really think that one of the premier boxers in MMA would get clowned by someone ranked like 40th in their weight class in boxing?
As I said above, I don’t believe Nick is a premier boxer in MMA. He has effective, high-volume, unorthodox striking. I like the way he goes to the body. But it is not technical, and it is not boxing.
I have to think it would be competitive at the very least. Doesn’t Diaz’s strength/heart/endurance etc count for anything?
Diaz fights at 170. I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say he could still make 160, where he had some of his best wins. That makes him a middleweight. The 40th best middleweight in the world according to boxrec.com is Ossie Duran out of Germany:
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=8953&cat=boxer
Ossie’s most recent fight was against Matt Vanda, who, in turn, has been in against Peter Manfredo and got robbed in his first fight against Julio Cesar Chavez Jr. You’ll note other luminaries on Ossie’s record include Fernando Gurrero (undefeated prospect), David Lopez (fighting for a WBA belt the next time out), and James Kirkland (who was an absolute monster before going to prison).
Ossie went the distance with all of them.
So, to your question, do I think Diaz’s strength/heart/endurance would carry him to a win against a guy with that kind of resume?
I do not.
Boxing is not like MMA. Boxing has been around a longtime and, while the best fights don’t always get made at the high levels, there is more of a competitive hierarchy to differentiate who’s who in the zoo.
Rarely in boxing do you have a guy like Jon Jones coming out of nowhere to claim the title in under 18 months. If you didn’t see the guy in the amateurs, and he hasn’t had time to mature as a pro, chances are he won’t be all that great.
The top 40 boxers at middleweight are all really good boxers. They would all smoke Diaz in a competitive match.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on May 10, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Ossie is out of Jersey by way of Ghana
Don’t know why I wrote Germany
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on May 10, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Rarely in boxing do you have a guy like Jon Jones coming out of nowhere to claim the title in under 18 months. If you didn’t see the guy in the amateurs, and he hasn’t had time to mature as a pro, chances are he won’t be all that great.
We see it happen,but usually the guy learned to box in prison, got out and turned pro.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
Brad Solmon
Following that route right now:
http://boxrec.com/list_bouts.php?human_id=438974&cat=boxer
And obviously BHop.
by The Ghost of Spike Owen on May 10, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Great post
Why I never joined a frat: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-KNVrZaN8M
"Don’t quote old fucks to me" – Brent Brookhouse
"A samurai would bite your cock off if you tried that shit on the battlefield." - Kid Nate
by Chris Barton on May 10, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m sure it comes across as me being negative, but it’s just reality.
No you’re not coming off as negative. This post makes sense. Ward is not trying to insult a sparring partner, he’s sticking to the the gym code of ethics and regulations. Thall shall not talk sh*t about your training partners.
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
That does beg one question
Why is Ward training with Diaz? Obviously, he thinks he’s getting something out of it. Just to mix up his training?
by CrassIndividual on May 10, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe he’s getting paid?
I tend to be biased towards strikers . . . exciting strikers.
- - - - -
VEe is ANIMated!
by VeeisAnimated on May 10, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
maybe Nick is a decent sparring partner
I mean really the lack of credit given to Nick here is astounding.
Not really...
Nick Diaz has had exactly one professional boxing match, what exactly should he be getting credit for?
www.hottopicwithphil.com
He means if Nick sucks
why would Ward want to spar with him.
From what I’ve heard lately, the top fighters in the lighter classes usually spar with really good fighters, like the Cuban amateurs. But some guys spar with not-so-good talent too.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
yeah thats true but to say Nick is paying to spar with Ward is low
I know some former not so great pro’s who sparred with Paul Malinaggi to prep him for his bout with Juan Diaz. That said those sparring sessions were still very competitve and those guys were washed up and never much good. The guy is my cousin. So i dont think Ward would be wasting his time on Nick if Nick wasnt pushing him at all.
I think he said it backwards
If anything, Andre is paying Nick to spar with him.
That’s how they do it in boxing. They pay the younger guys to get beat up.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
Well…like I tried to say in the post. Sometimes they just have guys who are around spar a few rounds just to stay sharp. But they pay guys to come in and spar with the big fighters every day because of their skills. The vibe I get is that they just kind of “for shits” sparred 6 times.
I keep pointing it out. But there was a heavyweight on a Bellator show (40 I think?) who had sparred multiple times with Wlad Klistchko. He had horrible punching technique even in terms of MMA. Sometimes you just need a “body” to get in the ring and work out some rounds against.
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 10, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions
nick would stylewise be good spar for andre to work on some things.nick is awkard bit wild pressure fighter sometimes classical boxers like ward can struggle with and be confused by boxers who don’t fight in the sterotypical boxer style (mayorga and prince naz made their living on this fact).Nick would be good to help ward practice staying calm when dealing with a wild style
Muscle memory is a hard thing to change....
Diaz has been training to fight MMA style for a long time. It is going to be difficult to switch up his stance after one training camp. Even if he starts out with a solid boxing stance, as soon as he gets tired he will revert back ….
"Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something"...The Dread Pirate Roberts
As soon as Nick Diaz tires the three roosters will crow, Fenrir will break his bonds, and the Ragnarok will begin.
by Tedd Welch on May 10, 2011 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
Then the moon shall turn as black as blood
and the dragon will appear low in the autumn sky.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
by TheFilt on May 10, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I'm bring the beers!
You do bring beer to Ragnarok right? Can I bring mead or something?
by CrassIndividual on May 10, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Mead is always a classy choice
I believe there’s a Mead of Poetry in Norse mythology which was made from all the gods spitting into a jar, or something? Religion is messed up.
It is not
It’s not like the really popular religions these days have ancient cannibalistic rituals built into their services or anything. Maybe a few small ones or something but the major ones don’t right? I mean who would follow something like that these days? Maybe 2000 years ago when everyone was even dumber that people are today but … not these days =)
by CrassIndividual on May 10, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
“it’s just reality” sums up what my thoughts about Nick’s skills are, HOWEVER, I think it’s important to note that his skills as they are now are not what’s going up into the ring. He will have a boxing camp before this fight, not just boxing training in his mma camp, but a fully fledged boxing camp. Which coach will be instructing him is pivotal.
When I was in high school
There was a kid I boxed with named Cameron, at the gym he wasn’t any good. He wasn’t fast and he didn’t hit that hard. He barely moved his feet.
In my town, this kid was pretty well known for beating up people 3 or 4 years older than him with ease. One day, I watched him fight of friend of mine(a senior). I thought my buddy would kick his ass. Sure enough, Cam put his hands up, slipped a punch and folded him like a lawn chair with a 3-2.
Moral of the story, he knew how to box and fought guys who didn’t. That’s what Diaz has been doing in most of fights.
Guys like Cybrog, Daley, Noons and Lawler know how to box and he’s still beaten them. That makes me think Nick may have a shot against a decent boxer.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
Noons is a decent boxer, he's got 13 pro wins.
The others at least have a good understanding of boxing and have decent technique. That’s all I’m saying.
"Run and tweet THAT, homeboy."
That being said…it’s a drag Noons can’t box on this same card. You know? Really sell it as some MMA vs. Boxing supercard. But um….KJ…welll…there’s stuff going on there I can’t talk about.
/typical BE cocktease
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 10, 2011 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions
NEVER!
And I mean that. I really can’t ever give specifics
Managing Editor - BloodyElbow.com - SBNation's mixed martial arts headquarters.
by Brent Brookhouse on May 10, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions
You said it best yourself...
/typical BE cocktease
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -John Wayne
Death before dishonor, drinks before lunch.
by The American Ronin on May 10, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Ward VS Kessler was awsome.
Ward is the best.
Learn JiuJitsu, it's fun.
ROCKY MARCIANO 49-0 HW Champion of the World.
I really like Ward after reading A Fighters Heart
Even If I don’t like religious nuts. But he came across in the book as a good guy, not self righteous like Jon Jones.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Bloody Elbow
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
MMA Rankings
